QE2 or you get a 20% pay cut

[Shea]

Amid all the Republicans patting themselves on the back and Obama saying it wasn't a repudiation of his policies, the Federal Reserve today began to implement "Quantitative Easing 2"....aka debt monitization. This wonderful slight of hand basically is them printing money out of thin air and then buying T-Bills since there is no longer a market for them (no one wants to buy worthless paper, even the Chinese). Ostensibly this is to "prime the market with liquidity", which in normal human-speak is "pump worthless money into the system in the 'hopes' that it will cause you to spend more". Any first-year economic student (maybe even Canuck) can tell you more money chasing the same amount of goods will cause an increase in prices (that's inflation kids).

So thanks to the brain trust at the Fed, everyone who has a job and doesn't get a cost of living increase every year (pretty much everyone) will have the net effect of getting a 20% pay decrease (you get paid the same but it's actually worth less).

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/US-Federal-Reserve-Decision-Expected-To-Boost-American-Economy/Article/201011115792652

The Dow will go up and the politicians will sing, but it will only go up because there is more money, not because any actual values have risen. Meanwhile you and I will pay more for food (Milk is already up 18% this year, wheat futures are up 48.5%) and gas since a bbl of oil is pegged to the dollar. I hear ammo is a pretty good investment at this time...

[mtnairlover]

lol...wow...seems to me that it continues to be big business in the driver's seat. Aren't we tired of being dragged by the tow chain, yet?

Hey Shea, what do you think of this guy's ideas (http://www.slate.com/id/99853/)? You kinda have to read the whole article to get what he's saying, but I am not an economist, so I'm not sure if that would be any better.

[Shea]

lol...wow...seems to me that it continues to be big business in the driver's seat. Aren't we tired of being dragged by the tow chain, yet?

Hey Shea, what do you think of this guy's ideas (http://www.slate.com/id/99853/)? You kinda have to read the whole article to get what he's saying, but I am not an economist, so I'm not sure if that would be any better.

Tax cuts (which I am all in favor of) without a cut in spending (which I am very much in favor of) is just plain stupid. We HAVE to balance our budget, which unfortunately will be painful to a great many people. Spending money we don't have just exacerbates our problems. Bush cutting taxes, then adding an completely unneeded entitlement program (Medicare Part D) and THEN launching two very questionable military campaigns was the epitome of idiocy. Obama had just continued the process of destruction, just with a bigger deficit.

Reducing FICA taxes as a means to spur the economy, which is what the link suggested, is the worst idea. The ponzi scheme that is Social Security is already paying out more in benefits then it takes in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

Reducing the contributions will only hasten it's demise, despite all our politicians proclaiming that it doesn't need to be fixed. Only drastic cost cutting will prevent us from going over the cliff. The alternative, according to the Fed, is to inflate the money supply so much that our 14 trillion dollar debt is actually only $.50. Personally I don't want to carry $5 million to buy a loaf of bread.

[Bueller]

Cutting spending will lead to tough decisions, where oh where to start?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

[jbnwc]

The ponzi scheme that is Social Security is already paying out more in benefits then it takes in:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

Reducing the contributions will only hasten it's demise, despite all our politicians proclaiming that it doesn't need to be fixed.

Our new senator, Ken Buck, is ALL about fixing the SS ponzi. Oh wait. Crap.

[derekm]

http://ec.europa.eu/education/img/flags/canada.gif???

[The Black Knight]

http://ec.europa.eu/education/img/flags/canada.gif
SUCKS!! ;)
15982

[Sarge]

Cutting spending will lead to tough decisions, where oh where to start?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


As much as I'm for that, I'm just afraid of #2 on that list.

[Canuck]

Why did I get thrown into this Shea? I agree with most of your first post. The SS is were we part ways.

[Canuck]

I'm putting my money in Plastics. It's the future. :lol:

[MetaLord 9]

I'm putting my money in Plastics.
Meanwhile, Blanket's busy taking money OFF your plastic! :lol:

[Shea]

Why did I get thrown into this Shea? I agree with most of your first post. The SS is were we part ways.

Because you're a self-professed socialist, and I hate you :)

Just poking you with a stick. Which part of the SS part did you disagree with? That its a ponzi scheme? Sorry brother but from SEC's own website:

"A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investor."

It takes three working people to fund the benefits of one retiree. Sounds pretty much like the very definition, does it not?

[Devaclis]

Mass composting of excess humans with an IQ under 120. Turn the compost into feed for the animals that the smart people will eat.

[Shea]

Mass composting of excess humans with an IQ under 120. Turn the compost into feed for the animals that the smart people will eat.

I am intrigued by your comments and wish to subscribe to your newsletter...

[mtnairlover]

People are afraid to lose out on their SS benefits...it's their fall back. Thing is a lot of people rely on that and only that.

Here's one thing I've learned after working in the public sector...PERA is a lot more friendly and it's a whole lot more comfy retiring with PERA benefits. The money came out of my paycheck before taxes. I did not pay into SS, only PERA. Had I stayed in the public sector, after working for 30 years in that sector, the way PERA worked was it took your earnings for the last 3 years of your service and averaged it, then you get paid 75% of that average for the rest of your life. That's amazing to me, especially since at that time of a person's life, the mortgage is paid and so living is a whole lot easier. At least, that's what I saw when I spoke with others who had retired and were living quite happily.

Anyway, people on the outside (not in the public sector) don't like PERA, cuz they see folks retiring early and living well. In my opinion, it's more a jealousy factor (stay with me, I'm getting to some kind of conclusion)...but the bigger issue is because everyone else realizes they more than likely will not have SS when they retire...so they're stuck and freaking out.

So, what if there was some other "scheme" to take pre-tax money of everyone's paycheck, invest it, and when a person is ready for retirement, there it is? I'm saying across the board...not something separate for public employees, but something that is the same percentage no matter where you work?

Is this idea hard to do? Is it because everyone is freaked out that pre-tax dollars are going somewhere like a black hole? Am I way off base?

Oh and yeah...no doubt we will have to cut spending, but it's the what kind that is hard to come to a consensus about. Those graphs in Wikipedia are freakin scary.

[Canuck]

My work schedule is busy today, so I'm not going to get into anoter 3 page (+) debate on the success and failures of SS. But what is your solution. Give it to the Bankster scumbags on Wall St?

[Shea]

My work schedule is busy today, so I'm not going to get into anoter 3 page (+) debate on the success and failures of SS. But what is your solution. Give it to the Bankster scumbags on Wall St?

Canada's system, as you've described it, sounds workable. The problem is no one has the stones to get into it since it's the "third rail" of politics. The only options apparently available to us are 1) raise the retirement age, 2) means test the benefits 3) cut benefits or 4) raise the tax. None of those are particularly palatable and doing any of them would lead to a firestorm of hate from whoever is in the opposition and the AARP. Doing nothing is not acceptable.

I would prefer "ownership" of an individuals retirement. If you've put money aside your entire adult life, it should be yours. As it stands now, you pay into the system for 40+ years and if you die on your 64th birthday the government takes it all.

In the grand scheme of things, defined benefits (you get X every month, no matter how much you've put in) as opposed to defined contribution plans (you put in X amount and you get Y amount based on that) are a problem and will be the doom of the massive amount of underwater pension plans in the US. These mismanaged union plans that have been underfunded for years are going to be bailed out by us taxpayers at some point in the very near future.

[dirkterrell]

Yep, they are basically monetizing the Federal deficit. Bernanke and crew need to be run out of town IMO, and the people in these banks running these mortgage-backed securities schemes need to be locked up with Bubba for a few years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiTikduJ15Y

Dirk

[Canuck]

From one of only two politicians that I actually respect in this country.

Sanders: A way to make Social Security solvent for the next 75 years
by Editor on August 16, 2010
Editor’s note: This op-ed is by Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt.
Social Security just turned 75, and all across the country, people and senior organizations are celebrating this enormous achievement. Before President Franklin Roosevelt signed the law on August 14, 1935, about half of the senior citizens in American lived in poverty. That began to change on January 31, 1940, when the first monthly retirement check, for $22.54, was issued to retired legal secretary Ida May Fuller of Ludlow, Vt.
Today, more than 52 million Americans, including more than 124,000 Vermonters, receive benefits. For three quarters of a century, Social Security has been a great success doing exactly what it was designed to do. During that entire period not one American who has been eligible for Social Security has failed to receive benefits they were entitled to receive. That’s a pretty good record. Today, Social Security not only provides retirement benefits to seniors, it provides support for the disabled and widows and orphans.
Sadly, despite its enormously successful record, Social Security has in recent years become a political football. For ideological reasons there are those in Congress who believe that government should not be involved in providing benefits to seniors or the disabled. Rather, they believe in the privatization of Social Security and that workers should, if they want, invest in retirement programs administered by Wall Street and the private sector. Others are arguing that “Social Security is going bankrupt” and, at the very least, benefits should be reduced and the retirement age should be raised to 70.
Let me make it very clear that I disagree with both of those assertions. First, the Social Security system has been enormously effective and efficient for the last 75 years. It must not be privatized. Working people are entitled to the continued security that the system provides and should not be forced to be dependent for their retirement and basic needs upon the ups and downs of the stock market. Despite the deep recession that we are currently in, not one American on Social Security has failed to receive the full benefits that he/she is entitled to. Just think about what would have happened in the last several years to millions of Americans if Social Security had been privatized and all of their retirement funds had been in the stock market. Secondly, Social Security is not going bankrupt and, with modest adjustments, will be available to our kids and grandchildren.
Despite what you may have seen or heard, the Social Security Trust Fund today has a $2.5 trillion surplus that is projected to grow to more than $4 trillion in 2023. According to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, Social Security will be able to pay every nickel owed to every eligible beneficiary until the year 2039. Let me repeat that. According to the people who have studied this issue most thoroughly, Social Security will be able to pay out all benefits for the next 29 years. At that time, in 2039, it will be able to pay out only 78 percent of benefits. What that means is that while the system is strong today and for many years to come, it’s important that we make some changes soon so that Social Security remains strong and solvent for the next 75 years. And there’s a pretty easy way to do that.
According to the Congressional Budget Office, if the Social Security payroll tax was applied to all income, Social Security would be solvent for the next 75 years. Right now, because of the cap on income subject to Social Security payroll taxes, someone who earns $106,800 a year pays the same amount into Social Security taxes as a billionaire. That’s wrong and unfair and must be changed. Simply applying the Social Security payroll tax to all incomes would correct this inequity and bring in enough funds to keep the system strong for the next 75 years.
In an August 6 letter to the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, Rep. Peter DeFazio and I suggested making the wealthiest Americans pay the same Social Security payroll tax as the rest of us. As we wrote in this letter, “This revenue boost eliminates any reason to cut Social Security benefits. We must reaffirm our commitment to one of the greatest legislative accomplishments without privatizing Social Security, reducing benefits or raising the full retirement age.”
The reason that we have to protect and strengthen Social Security is pretty obvious. It is a life and death issue for millions of the most vulnerable people in our society. Today, the median income for senior households is $24,000 – reflecting just how much Social Security means to most American seniors. Social Security provides the majority of income for two-thirds of our elderly. For one-third, it provides nearly all their income.
Further, let us not forget that Social Security is vital not only to seniors but to the disabled and widows and orphans. The evidence is very clear that no private insurance plan can compete with the disability benefits offered by Social Security. For a worker in her mid-20s with a spouse and two children, Social Security provides the equivalent of a $350,000 disability insurance policy. Most workers could not obtain or afford similar coverage outside of Social Security.
As we celebrate the successful 75th anniversary of Social Security, now is the time to make sure that our kids and grandchildren will be able to celebrate a similar event 75 years from now.

Posted in Opinion | Tagged Bernie Sanders, Congressional Budget Office, Social Security | 1 Response

[dirkterrell]

I would prefer "ownership" of an individuals retirement.

PRIVATIZATION?!?!?!?!?!? You fucking selfish bastard! How dare you expect people to be responsible for themselves. Hell no! That would be an unmitigated disaster. We need big daddy to take care of everybody.

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/images/goofy.gif

Dirk

[Canuck]

In the grand scheme of things, defined benefits (you get X every month, no matter how much you've put in) as opposed to defined contribution plans (you put in X amount and you get Y amount based on that) are a problem and will be the doom of the massive amount of underwater pension plans in the US. These mismanaged union plans that have been underfunded for years are going to be bailed out by us taxpayers at some point in the very near future.

Mismanaged is a vague generalization. I'll give you an empirical example. My Union pension is now at "endangered" stage. Meaning that we are between 70-85% solvent. Our pension took a dive when the stock market took a massive shit in '08. The real-estate scandal and all of these CDS (credit default swaps) were/are tied into the stock and bonds that alot of pension plans and private investors bought into. Most of what is at fault are the Banksters and the 100 or so uber rich in this country that really control things.
Viva la resistànce!

[Shea]

The problem Canuck is that ALL that "money" that the SSA says is in the the "trust fund" doesn't actually exist. In order to cook the books, our illustrious government took the cash from that fund and replaced it with special treasury notes (aka IOUs). In 2000, Bill Clinton's OMB stated:

"These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other trust fund expenditures-but only in a bookkeeping sense. These funds are not set up to be pension funds, like the funds of private pension plans. They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury, that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. The existence of large trust fund balances, therefore, does not, by itself, make it easier for the government to pay benefits. "

Social Security liabilities are PURPOSEFULLY kept OFF the government balance sheets because they would freak people out. The system is definitely in trouble with fictitious bookkeeping that makes Enron look tame.

[dirkterrell]

Mismanaged is a vague generalization. I'll give you an empirical example. My Union pension is now at "endangered" stage. Meaning that we are between 70-85% solvent. Our pension took a dive when the stock market took a massive shit in '08.

Then it was mismanaged. Clearly it was too heavily invested in equities for the payouts it had to make.

And yes, the banksters have pulled off some massive fraud, especially on the MBS stuff. They're trying to get out of paying for the mess they've created and the politicians are playing right along. But bullshit can't overcome the mathematical realities in play forever, and the more of this quantitative easing crap they foist on us, the more disastrous the final collapse will be.

Dirk

[Shea]

Mismanaged is a vague generalization. I'll give you an empirical example. My Union pension is now at "endangered" stage. Meaning that we are between 70-85% solvent. Our pension took a dive when the stock market took a massive shit in '08. The real-estate scandal and all of these CDS (credit default swaps) were/are tied into the stock and bonds that alot of pension plans and private investors bought into. Most of what is at fault are the Banksters and the 100 or so uber rich in this country that really control things.
Viva la resistànce!

I know you have a special love for unions, but for a group of people (powerful elite themselves) that put more emphasis in promoting their political agenda rather then funding their own members pension plans...and then to use their bought politicians to shift that burden onto American taxpayers. I've got a problem with it.

http://www.mercer.com/images//stephanie%20chart%201.JPG
So we are on the hook for $500+ Billion, and that is just for publicly traded companies, state union pensions underwater add billions more.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/about-sen-bob-caseys-union-pension-bailout-and-the-multi-employer-pension-union-racket-95056214.html

[dirkterrell]

From one of only two politicians that I actually respect in this country.

First, the Social Security system has been enormously effective


All Ponzi schemes are... until the collapse happens. The even worse thing about SS is that all of the money taken in so far, all those surpluses, are gone. IOUs don't mean shit when the backer is bankrupt. And in case you hadn't noticed, all of the current income for the Federal government goes to paying entitlements, everything else is being financed as debt at an almost unbelievable level. We're now at four times the level it was just a few years ago and suddenly all the Democrats who were bitching about deficits are clamoring for more deficit spending. The Republicans gave nothing but lip service to deficit spending. And until we decide that dealing with this impending disaster is more important than the petty political bickering that goes on, we're only worsening the pain that has to happen.

Dirk

[dirkterrell]

Denninger has some insightful commentary on this quantitative easing nonsense today:

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=171176

http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=171216

We need to fire Bernanke and hire Karl.

Dirk

[Shea]

I love how the government plays with their numbers in order to paint a rosier economic picture. Their dutiful toadies in the media report it and we are none the wiser. Unemployment at 9.6%? Well sure if you just remove some possible jobs from the equation and eliminate those that have given up looking. Add those actually out of work and it's 16-22%, but that would be bad for whatever administration in charge.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts

Inflation is under control? Well if you massage HOW you calculate it, which changed in 1990. We're closer to 10% inflation then the tiny 1.5%-ish which gets reported.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Even using the government numbers, you've lost 15-20% of you buying power in just the last 10 years.

[Canuck]

^ Agreed.

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

....I'm scared.

[Ghost]

Viva la resistànce!

The Resistance that "resists" by posting diatribes on obscure forums with no intention/ability to actually effect change?

La résistance est morte mon ami.*

*(though the idea still manages to sell a lot of Che shirts to college kids who think it'll get them laid)

[Ghost]

Truth is perception, numbers lie, lies are truth, this truth is a lie.


I love how the government plays with their numbers in order to paint a rosier economic picture. Their dutiful toadies in the media report it and we are none the wiser. Unemployment at 9.6%? Well sure if you just remove some possible jobs from the equation and eliminate those that have given up looking. Add those actually out of work and it's 16-22%, but that would be bad for whatever administration in charge.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts

Inflation is under control? Well if you massage HOW you calculate it, which changed in 1990. We're closer to 10% inflation then the tiny 1.5%-ish which gets reported.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Even using the government numbers, you've lost 15-20% of you buying power in just the last 10 years.

MiniTrue: the Ministry of Truth is a misnomer and in reality serves an opposing purpose to that which its name would imply, being responsible for the falsification of historical events; and yet is aptly named in a deeper sense, in that it creates/manufactures "truth" in the newspeak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak) sense of the word.

Sound familiar? ;)

[TinkerinWstuff]

following the government model, I figure I can live a pretty nice life for a couple years on credit cards before the sheriff shows up at my door.

problem is, I'm held responsible for my debt. The elected representatives are not held responsible for the dept they pass other than to be fired from their job in the next election. No one seems to believe they will be left holding the bag. In private business, if you spend the company into the ground and cook the books to make the shareholders believe they are living the good life - you go to JAIL.

[Shea]

Sound familiar? ;)

"FYI man, alright. You could sit at home, and do like absolutely nothing, and your name goes through like 17 computers a day. 1984? Yeah right, man. That's a typo. Orwell is here now. He's livin' large. We have no names, man. No names. We are nameless!" - Cereal Killer

[Ghost]

"FYI man, alright. You could sit at home, and do like absolutely nothing, and your name goes through like 17 computers a day. 1984? Yeah right, man. That's a typo. Orwell is here now. He's livin' large. We have no names, man. No names. We are nameless!" - Cereal Killer

Heh. One of my favs. :D

Along with:
There is no right and wrong. There's only fun and boring.

[Canuck]

The Resistance that "resists" by posting diatribes on obscure forums with no intention/ability to actually effect change?

La résistance est morte mon ami.*

*(though the idea still manages to sell a lot of Che shirts to college kids who think it'll get them laid)

:lol: touché.
Thanks for the acute accent correction on the first 'e'. I'm an Anglophone Canandian. No Québécois for me. But I'm trying.

[Ghost]

:lol: touché.
Thanks for the acute accent correction on the first 'e'. I'm an Anglophone Canandian. No Québécois for me. But I'm trying.

Once you're over your VW craze we'll worry about your accent marks. :p

[Canuck]

Thanks Jenny ;)

[Ghost]

Thanks Jenny ;)

While I may be channeling her for that comment, I must admit that I don't look as good in leathers. :lol:

[= Buckeye Jess =]

....I'm scared.
And I'm unhappy that I took my head out of the sand long enough to read this thread... damn you Shea for posting more sobering reality! lol

[Shea]

And I'm unhappy that I took my head out of the sand long enough to read this thread... damn you Shea for posting more sobering reality! lol

Sorry, go back to American Idol, nothing to see here :)

[= Buckeye Jess =]

LMAO..shuddit Shea!
On a serious note, I had not heard about this whole thing. Lovely

[Ghost]

nothing to see here :)

Sadly true.

[Ghost]

On a serious note, I had not heard about this whole thing. Lovely

We don't hear about much on purpose.

Then, even if we do, we can't do anything about it anyway so...yeah...American Idol might be the best bet.

[= Buckeye Jess =]

And thus the whole sarcastic "head in the sand" comment.

[Shea]

LMAO..shuddit Shea!
On a serious note, I had not heard about this whole thing. Lovely

You have to be pretty boring and dull (ie me) to care about what the "man behind the curtain" is doing and it's impact. That and they love to create these beautiful euphemisms for this crap. Most people don't understand "debt monitzation" let alone "quantitative easing".

Meanwhile, some others are watching and saying "Nein!"...and whatever the Chinese equivalent is:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE6A301Q20101104

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39968918

Read between the lines and this is the last arrow in the quiver that the Fed has. Our T-bills aren't selling, they can't lower interest rates any more and we are out of options, and probably time. Merry Christmas and a Happy...well shit I'm moving to Belize.

[= Buckeye Jess =]

I don't find it boring at all Shea. I find it distressing and sad that one does have to seemingly spend a good deal of effort to uncover a lot of this type of thing or sorting through fluff news and editorial commentary to get to the simple facts.
I have honestly missed a lot of the posts and viewpoints you've offered in the past - welcome back! :)

[Ghost]

Our T-bills aren't selling, they can't lower interest rates any more and we are out of options, and probably time. Merry Christmas and a Happy...well shit I'm moving to Belize.

Belize? I've not read up on their situation enough to know if they're better, I was thinking Finland (6th happiest country in the world, still solvent, highly educated population, and top producer of winning rally & F1 drivers).


And thus the whole sarcastic "head in the sand" comment.

And, of course, as the world is as it is, the sand's probably full of toxins and highly carcinogenic.

Once you start looking into things it's like being in a bucket of shit up to your neck and having someone else throwing shit in your face.

Whether you do something or not, you're still eating shit and you're still trapped in the bucket.

[Shea]

Belize? I've not read up on their situation enough to know if they're better, I was thinking Finland (6th happiest country in the world, still solvent, highly educated population, and top producer of winning rally & F1 drivers).



Lowest population density, tropical climate, natural resources. I'll take the occasional hurricane over cold tundra (and sleeping next to a resurgent totalitarian bear)

[= Buckeye Jess =]

The chinese article summarized things succinctly:
""As long as the world exercises no restraint in issuing global currencies such as the dollar -- and this is not easy -- then the occurrence of another crisis is inevitable, as quite a few wise Westerners lament," he said."

[= Buckeye Jess =]

Lowest population density, tropical climate, natural resources. I'll take the occasional hurricane over cold tundra (and sleeping next to a resurgent totalitarian bear)
LOL...
I'll just take one of those huts in Tahiti and chase off any tourists with my homemade coil gun!

[Ghost]

Lowest population density, tropical climate, natural resources. I'll take the occasional hurricane over cold tundra (and sleeping next to a resurgent totalitarian bear)

Hmm, interesting but it kinda sounds like Survivor's idea of paradise.

How's Belize's road system?

I'll risk a decadent and capitalism-corrupted almost bankrupt totalitarian bear to enjoy a civilized society, awesome coffee (which I don't drink, but I'll cultivate the habit), fresh fish, and amazing roads (even in the tundra).

[Shea]

Hmm, interesting but it kinda sounds like Survivor's idea of paradise.

How's Belize's road system?

I'll risk a decadent and capitalism-corrupted almost bankrupt totalitarian bear to enjoy a civilized society, awesome coffee (which I don't drink, but I'll cultivate the habit), fresh fish, and amazing roads (even in the tundra).

As much as I like the Fins (and the girls are pretty hot too), just not digging welfare states all that much. But each to their own :)

As far as roads, tarmac (some), dirt (lots).

http://ambergriscaye.com/pages/town/roads.html

[Ghost]

and the girls are pretty hot too

And this had absolutely nothing/everything to do with my selection. Hawt, well-educated Valkyrie-like women who can out-drive most men are clearly not anything(the exact thing) I'd be interested in.


As far as roads, tarmac (some), dirt (lots).

http://ambergriscaye.com/pages/town/roads.html

Dirt's good for the STI, bad for the bike, but I suppose that unless I want to stud the tires on the CBR it's probably all a wash as far as the roads go.

So, for a point of pure intellectual curiosity, and as a theoretical decider for this apparent alternate to Finland--how hawt are Belizian women? :p

[= Buckeye Jess =]

So, for a point of pure intellectual curiosity, and as a theoretical decider for this apparent alternate to Finland--how hawt are Belizian women? :p
How dare you turn the tide of the conversation to such trivial matters?? lol

[Ghost]

How dare you turn the tide of the conversation to such trivial matters?? lol

Trivial? My god woman, this is the CORE question underpinning every society throughout history!

[Canuck]

I'm going to Canada, as soon as I can ween Blanket away from her Family.

[TinkerinWstuff]

So, for a point of pure intellectual curiosity, and as a theoretical decider for this apparent alternate to Finland--how hawt are Belizian women? :p

http://www.belizehotspot.com/images/belize-girls.jpg

http://www.belizehotspot.com/blog_15.shtml


Belize is known for beautiful women, with year round beautiful weather, there are bikini beilze girls everywhere! Get your bikinis ready and head down to Belize.

I prefer blonds so Finland will stay on top of my list.

[= Buckeye Jess =]

Great.... now look at what you've all done.
Bastards... all of ya! lol

[TinkerinWstuff]

Great.... now look at what you've all done.
Bastards... all of ya! lol

I'm sure there's room in the pool for you too

[= Buckeye Jess =]

I'm sure there's room in the pool for you too
LMAO... the day that ANYBODY ever sees me in a bikini is the day that hell hath frozen solid and then some.

[Ghost]

http://www.belizehotspot.com/images/belize-girls.jpg

http://www.belizehotspot.com/blog_15.shtml



I prefer blonds so Finland will stay on top of my list.

Hmm, interesting, still, I think I require a wider sample-set before I can draw any lasting conclusions.

And, I may have to get directly involved via first-hand observations of the difficult-to-quantify "hawtness factor" of each country's offerings...

I think I need another federal grant to subsidize my travel and research...

[dirkterrell]

You guys are definitely honing your politician skills. We were talking about quantitative easing and mortgage-back securities fraud and now the subject is women in bikinis. For a second, I thought my future press secretary, Steve, had posted something. :lol:

Dirk

[Ghost]

You guys are definitely honing your politician skills. We were talking about quantitative easing and mortgage-back securities fraud and now the subject is women in bikinis. For a second, I thought my future press secretary, Steve, had posted something. :lol:

Dirk

And what drove the fraud?

Clearly, it was driven by the desire of corrupt and corpulent political jackoffs to have access to more women in bikinis, and being rich helps immensely.

Thus, the two topics are truly one and the same, or at least two sides of the same coin.

Politics is teh easy.

[Canuck]

And now, for something completely different...

http://www.lesjones.com/www/images/posts/canadian_cougar_poster.jpg

[Shea]

Back on topic for Dirk ...

How do you say "Over our dead bodies" in Portuguese?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/326a6d62-e83d-11df-8995-00144feab49a.html#axzz14LvmV97R

This might get nasty.

[Ghost]

Back on topic for Dirk ...

How do you say "Over our dead bodies" in Portuguese?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/326a6d62-e83d-11df-8995-00144feab49a.html#axzz14LvmV97R

This might get nasty.

Nah, WWII made this country the powerhouse that it is (was) and firmly established the military industrial congressional complex we so love.

If the dire allusion to competitive devaluation leading to WWII is true, then perhaps a nice non-asymmetric conflict like a WWIII is just what we need...

And, given the constructed/manipulated nature of the Real, I find this whole threat/claim rather amusing.

[dirkterrell]

Break out the popcorn:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10913171/1/ron-paul-may-oversee-fed.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN

Dirk

[Canuck]

Back to the Gold Standard= step in right direction.
Major Overhaul of Fed Reserve = Bigger Win.
Next step, Getting corporate/big money and faux government groups (like the Chamber of Commerce) out of Government.
Then repeal the 14th amendment for Corporations.
...

[Shea]

Break out the popcorn:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10913171/1/ron-paul-may-oversee-fed.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN

Dirk

But will he make it in time?

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=171242

Sorry for the doom and gloom folks, but seriously debt monitization was the firewall. Once you go there, there be dragons and all bets are off. It is such a destructive and, if you understand it, "holy fuck we're out of options!" move. Inflation and consumption are not wealth creation.

[Edit] Yet one more:

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/11/03/quantitative_easing_is_economic_suicide_98740.html

[Ghost]

But will he make it in time?

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=171242

Sorry for the doom and gloom folks, but seriously debt monitization was the firewall. Once you go there, there be dragons and all bets are off. It is such a destructive and, if you understand it, "holy fuck we're out of options!" move. Inflation and consumption are not wealth creation.

[Edit] Yet one more:

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/11/03/quantitative_easing_is_economic_suicide_98740.html

Gloom & Doom is SOP these days, but never fear, the rich will survive with their fortunes & power intact.

[Shea]

Explained for all the "Homer Simpsons" of America (or "dogs" if you prefer the Bill Maher pov):

Does contain some language, so probably NSFW
http://garynorth.com/public/7261.cfm

[TinkerinWstuff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k&feature=player_embedded

[TFOGGuys]

I wonder if I could do this as an individual... you know....write IOUs to pay off my debt, then pay the IOUs with more IOUs...then borrow more money to pay the IOUs....I could be rich in no time.... :banghead:

[rforsythe]

I wonder if I could do this as an individual... you know....write IOUs to pay off my debt, then pay the IOUs with more IOUs...then borrow more money to pay the IOUs....I could be rich in no time.... :banghead:

No, Madoff tried that. You gotta have a military to back you up so nobody comes to collect.

[TinkerinWstuff]

"the Ben Bernank" had me rolling. Kinda dry humor but