Shifting

[veteran_80]

Alright just got my first streetbike last summer, gsxr 600 k5... Put a lil, over 4k miles from late August till i put it away just before thanksgiving. So im trying to soak up as much info as i can since im learning and will be for years to come. on to my question....

Clutchless shifting- Technique? pros? cons? will it damage or is it better for my bike? thx ahead of time for any input!

[Wrider]

Good job, you have won today's "Can of Worms" award!
haha
There's a ton of debate on it. Yes it can damage your transmission. Yes you can put 200K on a transmission doing that without damage. Pros? Quicker shifting, slightly less clutch wear. Cons? Can easily screw up your gears/shift drum/forks.

[veteran_80]

Yeah kinda figured it would be mixed answers haha... Thats why im asking, heard many diff answers. Figured id give the forum a shot at it. Heard it was bad for it, even heard it was encouraged in the gsxr 750 k7 owners manual ( cant confirm that just heard it )

[brennahm]

Man, I was thinking LITERALLY just yesterday how rare the color scheme in your avatar was...and how it was probably my favorite SB body ever.

[veteran_80]

I almost didnt buy the bike cuz of the color scheme... But man has it GROWN on me. I love it now. Get a lot of looks. thx

[dirkterrell]

Just search on clutchless and you'll find many discussions on the topic.

Dirk

[veteran_80]

ok thx dirk

[colo_kicker]

I've used clutchless on both a Suzuki SV650 and a Hayabusa. Smoother shifting - if done right - and no damage. Your ability to sense when to shift and your actual physical ability to do it will determine the impact to your bike.
Personally, it works great for me.

[FZRguy]

Fine for upshifting, assuming your technique is good. Not good for downshifting, unless you're riding a two-stroke dirt bike.

[asp_125]

I upshift that way fairly often. But you have to be quick and good or else risk wearing out your shift forks etc.

[cptschlongenheimer]

I've found that the gear-box in my r6 can do smooth shifts both directions with no clutch. The key is throttle control. It's easier to be smooth on the higher gears but if I blip the throttle just right, I can smoothly shift all the way up and back down from 2nd. Disclaimer: practicing this was possibly not a beginner skill, probably did cause at least a little excessive wear, and is definitely a good idea to make sure you can practice it out of traffic.

[dragos13]

I've found that the delta-box in my r6 can do smooth shifts both directions with no clutch. The key is throttle control. It's easier to be smooth on the higher gears but if I blip the throttle just right, I can smoothly shift all the way up and back down from 2nd. Disclaimer: practicing this was possibly not a beginner skill, probably did cause at least a little excessive wear, and is definitely a good idea to make sure you can practice it out of traffic.

+1 its all about timing.

I clutchless up-shift my racebike every time I shift. You can get away with clutchless down-shifting if you blip the throttle right. Normally, you don't want to do this because you want to feather out the clutch on down-shifts. Coming into the hairpin at Pueblo is a good example, where everything is happening so fast and you already have your speed down, a quick blip and down-shift.

I don't think you'll do any damage for clutchless up-shifting. Just apply slight pressure to the pedal, and roll off the throttle just a bit when you are ready to shift. Should slide right in.

[veteran_80]

Alright thx everyone for the input. Sounds like the wear on ur bike is dependant on ur skill at shiftin it right. I'll give it a try this summer n go from there...

[MetaLord 9]

Having a slipper clutch also aids with clutchless downshifting.

I shift up & down without the clutch on a regular basis but it's timing, rev matching, and understanding the situations. Shifting up or down while at a low rev is going to be more difficult and damaging.

Clutchless shifting, like many things on the bike, can make your riding faster and smoother but can also damage your bike if not done correctly or if done irresponsibly.

[asp_125]

Even if you don't do it regularly, it's a good thing to understand how. You never know if you might break a clutch cable, lever, or lose a hydraulic clutch line. Being able to do clutchless shifting might get you home or out of the boonies.

[cptschlongenheimer]

+1 its all about timing.

Just apply slight pressure to the pedal, and roll off the throttle just a bit when you are ready to shift. Should slide right in.

+1
as you approach the correct rev range (with slight pressure on the shifter) it should feel like the resistance on the shift lever briefly disappears (or gets significantly lighter).


Having a slipper clutch also aids with clutchless downshifting.

I shift up & down without the clutch on a regular basis but it's timing, rev matching, and understanding the situations. Shifting up or down while at a low rev is going to be more difficult and damaging.

Clutchless shifting, like many things on the bike, can make your riding faster and smoother but can also damage your bike if not done correctly or if done irresponsibly.

+1 again...

Another thing to note is that it is easier to hit a false neutral if you are doing this and fail to make all of your shifts nice quick, full-range motions.

A

[Ricky]

I don't have an issue shifting in either direction without using the clutch. But then again, when I was taught how to drive a manual vehicle, I was taught that it's possible to drive it without using the clutch. My only issue is when I'm going between 1st and 2nd. If you're not solid with the shift, it's easy to get stuck in neutral, and catch the next gear in the wrong way.

I actually think it's way easier to learn this method at low RPMs, with a steady throttle, going like 25mph. I find it just as easy to shift at low RPM's as it is at high RPM's & high torque. But at low RPM's, it's much smoother and can be more forgiving if you don't shift quickly enough.

[usmcab35]

i normally dont see a reason not to use the clutch when riding around, if i was on a track maybe but im never balls out racing someone on the street where i need the extra half second saved from a clutchless shift. ive done it but i dont mind pulling in the clutch, just incase..

[Wrider]

I've found that the delta-box in my r6 can do smooth shifts both directions with no clutch.

How does your frame have anything to do with smooth shifts?

[Ricky]

How does your frame have anything to do with smooth shifts?

Frame is connected to the gear box, therefore making the gear box smooth by association :lol:

[Mother Goose]

Frame is connected to the gear box, therefore making the gear box smooth by association :lol:
:spit:

I only clutchless upshift on the track. I don't see a reason for it on the street, unless your clutch cable broke.

[cptschlongenheimer]

How does your frame have anything to do with smooth shifts?

That was supposed to be gear box. Just had a bit of a freudian moment @ 5:45 am. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

[Ricky]

I find I clutchless shift a hell of a lot more on my dirt bike than on the street. It's more often I find I don't want to lose the handlebar grip to reach for the clutch.

And it's not that I make a point to do it on the street, I just find using the clutch is often an unnecessary step in a normal shift.

[cptschlongenheimer]

I initially taught myself because I wanted to learn how to launch as quick as possible.
(absolutely unnecessary on the street And a little bit reckless but still fun)
I've found that in practice, I usually only use it when changing between higher gears while cruising, to adjust to changing traffic speeds/limits (if i happen to have the left hand off the bar when I need to shift).

[OUTLAWD]

I only clutchless upshift on the track. I don't see a reason for it on the street, unless your clutch cable broke.


:imwithstupid:

[Sean]

Why shift? The CBR will do 90 in first gear. You shouldn't need to go faster than that when commuting. :up:

[CaneZach]

+1 its all about timing.

I clutchless up-shift my racebike every time I shift. You can get away with clutchless down-shifting if you blip the throttle right. Normally, you don't want to do this because you want to feather out the clutch on down-shifts. Coming into the hairpin at Pueblo is a good example, where everything is happening so fast and you already have your speed down, a quick blip and down-shift.

I don't think you'll do any damage for clutchless up-shifting. Just apply slight pressure to the pedal, and roll off the throttle just a bit when you are ready to shift. Should slide right in.

+1 to everything Casey said. If I'm shifting up, I do so without using the clutch. On my streetbike, I tend to use my clutch more often.

[Wrider]

That was supposed to be gear box. Just had a bit of a freudian moment @ 5:45 am. Can you find it in your heart to forgive me?

Maybe, but just this once... lol
If I had seen the time stamp before I wouldn't have said anything.

[cptschlongenheimer]

Maybe, but just this once...

If I'd known I only get one I'd have saved it for something better. I mean I'm bound to say something even more stupid sooner or later...

[Stank Juic3]

I did/do it all the time on my CBR, R1, R6. But I dont know about K5's I think they blow up if you do it. (Bias answer)

[FZRguy]

Auto gearbox and moto gearbox are way different. Your truck or car is a syncro transmission and requires the clutch for gear changes. Moto gearbox is constant mesh, which is why we can shift without the clutch.

[Irishboxer8]

Had a couple buddies who never used their clutch and things were fine, and some others that have bent their clutch fork and really jacked up their transmission. I generally only do it when I'm going hard on the bike (ie: racing, drag racing) but that's it.