Good conceal and carry gun?

[TurboGizzmo]

So I was watching another thread on another forum regarding carrying a gun and having to adjust wardrobe and depending on your build different ways you have to conceal AND with laws making there way through Colorado right now possibly allowing concealed carry with no permit I've been pondering it.....http://www.rmgo.org/petitions/colorado-constitutional-carry

Someone posted this http://www.ruger.com/products/lcp/models.html as a good, simple, easy to conceal gun, thoughts?

My experience has been with my 9mm Hi-Point http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/handguns/9%20mm/hi_point_9mm.html

Good cheap gun for target and home defense but very big and bulky for what it is.

[dallas]

Depends on how you want to carry it and how big of a person you are. I have a .38 Special with a 2" barrel that fits in my pocket and no one knows is there. I am sure I can put it in a waist band holster and get the same effect. In a shoulder holster, I can conceal a full frame Glock. Like alot of things, it depends on what you want to do and what you feel comfortable with. I say go John Wayne style and just open carry a .44 Mag.

[TurboGizzmo]

Ah ok :

Nerd build, 5'10'' ~160 pounds.

Typical daily IT wardrobe = Jeans, t-shirt, untucked polo.

I've seen people open carry in the summertime in loveland, full cowboy style with the gun belt and bullets and all.

[Smitty]

Carry this:
http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/rewolwer-mini.jpg

[TurboGizzmo]

Carry this:
http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/rewolwer-mini.jpg

While i dream the gangster dream of carrying a Desert Eagle sized weapon, fully tatted out, bald with my labret pierced, screaming while emptying full "clips" while reloading lara croft style......I really cant pull that stuff off.

[Dietrich_R1]

+2 for the Ruger LCP... Heck, you won't even notice it in your jeans pocket!!!!!

[TurboGizzmo]

I see this is coming our or just came out: http://www.ruger.com/products/lc9/models.html

What do people think of 380 vs 9mm

[Vitesse304]

#1. Don't open carry. It's not worth the hassle of dealing with the police who may or may not know the actual law in regards to open carry and risk getting your firearm confiscated and a ticket for causing public panic. Also, you run the risk of the someone being able to or, having the opportunity of taking your firearm when you are in the situation where you would potentially need to use it.

Keep it concealed, dress appropriately to conceal it, and be mindful of the law and respectful to police when you carry. Carrying a firearms comes with a lot of responsibility and you need to understand all the legal ramifications and know when you are lawfully able to draw and fire on someone. A firearm and a concealed carry permit are not licenses to be a dick or be a hero.

Now that I'm off my soapbox...

#2. Carry what you are comfortable carrying (weight and size) and a firearm that you are proficent with and which is reliable. The point of carrying is so that you are prepared when you need it. If it's too heavy, to big, has too much recoil, or isn't reliable, you won't carry it.

I have a lot of firearms that I rotate through depending on what I'm wearing and what the weather is, but the biggest factor in carrying comfortably and securely is a good holster. Don't get a cheap fobus, or uncle mikes...get a good leather holster either IWB or OWB that is comfortable for you and holds your firearm securely. Also, be sure to get a good belt. Regular belts that you wear for work will not be strong enough to hold up a firearm.

Also, you will need to me more aware of what you are doing when you carry so that you don't flash. If you bend over a lot and crawl under a desk, an OWB might not be a good idea, where an IWB or pocket carry would work better.

So on to what I recommend.

I carry and rotate through the following depending on what the weather is and what type of clothing I'm wearing, I also consider where I will be:

Springfield XD 4 in. 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Glock 19 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Glock 17 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Ruger SP101 2.5 Barrel 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Ruger SP101 2.5 Barrel .357 Mag (IWB and OWB)
Ruger LCP .380 (IWB and Pocket)
Springfield Loaded 1911 .45 (IWB and OWB)
Kimber Custom 1911 .45 (IWB and OWB)
Sig Sauer P225 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Beretta Bobcat .22 (Pocket)
S&W TRR8 .357 Mag (OWB)

Considering your build and attire, you shouldn't have a problem finding something that will fit your needs and be comfortable. I find that when I carry IWB, I like to carry at 8:00 for a lefty and 4:00 for a righty. OWB, I carry at 9:00 for a lefty and 3:00 for a righty with no cant, straight drop, just be careful like I said before about moving around and bending over.

The best thing to do is find a gun that fits you and that you feel has adequate stopping power and then find a good holster and carry it!

Head to the gun range and try out some guns, see what caliber you like and which gun feels the best in your hands and that you can shoot accurately. I recommend starting with a springfield or glock. They are priced well and if one won't fit your hands, the other will.

And finally...get rid of the high point. You'll understand after you've held a quality firearm.

[jbnwc]

I have a Keltec P3AT which is what Ruger copied to make the LCP. They are virtually carbon copies of each other, so I would get either for a CCW. The Ruger seems to have a slightly better fit and finish, but both are good. In less than 100 rounds, my Keltec has never jammed or misfired. If you aren't used to carrying something around and want a gun you won't notice in your pocket, you can't do better than the Ruger or Keltec in 380. There are some 9mm's that are close, but the 380's are so small and light you don't even notice them.

As far as the 380 vs 9mm debate, I personally don't see much difference. To me it is more about how well you can shoot it and whether you mind carrying around a big gun. I use the best self defense ammo money can buy, so it shouldn't matter if I'm using 9mm or 380 as long as all the shots are on target. It's about you, how you train, and how well you prepare, not the gun or the ammo.

[Sully]

I have a .38 Special with a 2" barrel that fits in my pocket and no one knows is there.

:o You said it was something else in your pocket????

[TurboGizzmo]

#1. Don't open carry. It's not worth the hassle of dealing with the police who may or may not know the actual law in regards to open carry and risk getting your firearm confiscated and a ticket for causing public panic. Also, you run the risk of the someone being able to or, having the opportunity of taking your firearm when you are in the situation where you would potentially need to use it.

Keep it concealed, dress appropriately to conceal it, and be mindful of the law and respectful to police when you carry. Carrying a firearms comes with a lot of responsibility and you need to understand all the legal ramifications and know when you are lawfully able to draw and fire on someone. A firearm and a concealed carry permit are not licenses to be a dick or be a hero.

Now that I'm off my soapbox...

#2. Carry what you are comfortable carrying (weight and size) and a firearm that you are proficent with and which is reliable. The point of carrying is so that you are prepared when you need it. If it's too heavy, to big, has too much recoil, or isn't reliable, you won't carry it.

I have a lot of firearms that I rotate through depending on what I'm wearing and what the weather is, but the biggest factor in carrying comfortably and securely is a good holster. Don't get a cheap fobus, or uncle mikes...get a good leather holster either IWB or OWB that is comfortable for you and holds your firearm securely. Also, be sure to get a good belt. Regular belts that you wear for work will not be strong enough to hold up a firearm.

Also, you will need to me more aware of what you are doing when you carry so that you don't flash. If you bend over a lot and crawl under a desk, an OWB might not be a good idea, where an IWB or pocket carry would work better.

So on to what I recommend.

I carry and rotate through the following depending on what the weather is and what type of clothing I'm wearing, I also consider where I will be:

Springfield XD 4 in. 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Glock 19 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Glock 17 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Ruger SP101 2.5 Barrel 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Ruger SP101 2.5 Barrel .357 Mag (IWB and OWB)
Ruger LCP .380 (IWB and Pocket)
Springfield Loaded 1911 .45 (IWB and OWB)
Kimber Custom 1911 .45 (IWB and OWB)
Sig Sauer P225 9mm (IWB and OWB)
Beretta Bobcat .22 (Pocket)
S&W TRR8 .357 Mag (OWB)

Considering your build and attire, you shouldn't have a problem finding something that will fit your needs and be comfortable. I find that when I carry IWB, I like to carry at 8:00 for a lefty and 4:00 for a righty. OWB, I carry at 9:00 for a lefty and 3:00 for a righty with no cant, straight drop, just be careful like I said before about moving around and bending over.

The best thing to do is find a gun that fits you and that you feel has adequate stopping power and then find a good holster and carry it!

Head to the gun range and try out some guns, see what caliber you like and which gun feels the best in your hands and that you can shoot accurately. I recommend starting with a springfield or glock. They are priced well and if one won't fit your hands, the other will.

And finally...get rid of the high point. You'll understand after you've held a quality firearm.

Very nice, thanks!

As for the hi-point it was never bought with high expectations or for carrying. It was bought to get use to a firearms basic workings years ago while keeping the price point low. I've shot many other friends firearms and want to be careful of my addiction to collecting and dont want to end up starting a new hobby of gun collecting.

I own a few other guns that were willed to me but I wont carry them because they are old and wouldnt want them confiscated in the event something happens.

[dallas]

:o You said it was something else in your pocket????

It was................that time........

[thankgod]

http://www.glock.com/english/glock33.htm


I have a .45GAP but really want this :guns:little .357 :D

Or...http://www.impactguns.com/store/640832000375.html :sniper:

Although the Kel Tec is a little too big to be a conceal weapon. Just buy a bigger coat. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckZ0HC_GwcY



Ooo and here's a good reason to get a Glock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygcfp40RTKs

[Kim-n-Dean]

So I was watching another thread on another forum regarding carrying a gun and having to adjust wardrobe and depending on your build different ways you have to conceal AND with laws making there way through Colorado right now possibly allowing concealed carry with no permit I've been pondering it.....http://www.rmgo.org/petitions/colorado-constitutional-carryI definitely agree that no one should tell you how, when and if you can protect yourself. However, the thought of any whiffle dick being able to simply shove a gun in his underwear is a little frightening!! If you can't take the time to attend a CCW class, then you have no business carrying!! Also, the cost of the CCW class and the cost for the two background checks show a commitment to what you are doing. I don't think I'm in favor of 'no-permit carrying'.

..and as far as what to carry... no criminal has ever complained of being shot with too small a caliber! I still carry a 1911, though:D

[TFOGGuys]

I carry either a KelTec P11 in 9mm, or a Baby Eagle in either 9mm or .45, depending on my attire. If I am wearing a coat, the Eagles conceal nicely in a Kramer IWB holster, with a good gunbelt at about the 3:30 position. In warmer conditions or when dressing up, I carry the KelTec in an Akers tuckable holster at about 4 o'clock. I can conceal a full size 1911, but it's heavier than I care to carry.

+1 on getting a permit and as much training as you can afford. :)

[Sully]

I should get something smaller also... (gah, never thought I would ever hear myself say that) :bigeyes:

Good info here, thanks! :up:

[TurboGizzmo]

I definitely agree that no one should tell you how, when and if you can protect yourself. However, the thought of any whiffle dick being able to simply shove a gun in his underwear is a little frightening!! If you can't take the time to attend a CCW class, then you have no business carrying!! Also, the cost of the CCW class and the cost for the two background checks show a commitment to what you are doing. I don't think I'm in favor of 'no-permit carrying'.

..and as far as what to carry... no criminal has ever complained of being shot with too small a caliber! I still carry a 1911, though:D

Thats was my pondering on this new bill, i am all about rights but giving everyone the ok to carry when honestly some people need their hand held (or maybe most) scares me.

I bought a gun already, i am on some "government" list...i dont mind classes and being able to see different firearms and holsters.

I assume it can be compared to driving a motorcycle....if we passed a law that anyone with a CAR license could instantly legally ride a motorcycle we would see a giant influx of sandle wearing sea-life on two wheels.

Having a few hoops to jump through certain cases cause people to think, some people in my motorcycle class decided motorcycles werent for them. I might even be like that now since i am in now hurry to get back on two wheels, but i still went through all the steps to be legit when i was.

[Kim-n-Dean]

...I can conceal a full size 1911, but it's heavier than I care to carry. Yeah, it is a little heavy, but thank god for my beer gut! Otherwise, I'd have to get something much smaller!!

My "in-shape" friends try the holster and gun and it looks like they have a cinder block under their shirt.

[OUTLAWD]

fully tatted out, bald with my labret pierced...

when you looked like this, the chances of people messing with you decreases dramatically


However, the thought of any whiffle dick being able to simply shove a gun in his underwear is a little frightening!!

I agree with this entirely...I have been kicking around going through a CCW class and picking up a little something to carry, its just funds are a little tight at the moment...


whiffle dick...that's a good one

[thankgod]

ok ok ONE more reason Glocks are supreme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj5Kcs4dzro&feature=related

[TurboGizzmo]

when you looked like this, the chances of people messing with you decreases dramatically


I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, i just cant pull it off. The only scary part about me is remotely shutting your PC down :P

[Kim-n-Dean]

Ever try "bump fire"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3y2Cp0pKwA

[dirkterrell]

I carry a Glock 30. Small enough for me to conceal easily and it packs a pretty decent punch.

Dirk

[Sean]

The only scary part about me is remotely shutting your PC down :P:spit:

[eg bter]

+1 for Glock

I carry a 23

[Hibs]

why does it seem like everyone is all caught up with the fascination of a high capacity semi-auto? what's wrong with a simple 5-6 shot revolver? Low maintenance, no jamming, compact.

I mean really, in the event you ever need to defend yourself with your concealed carry, do you REALLY think you need 10+ rounds?

Here's a good article for ya...

http://www.gunthorp.com/first%20gun.htm

[Vitesse304]

why does it seem like everyone is all caught up with the fascination of a high capacity semi-auto? what's wrong with a simple 5-6 shot revolver? Low maintenance, no jamming, compact.

I mean really, in the event you ever need to defend yourself with your concealed carry, do you REALLY think you need 10+ rounds?

Here's a good article for ya...

http://www.gunthorp.com/first%20gun.htm


I don't think anybody here is caught up in the fascination of a high cap semi auto...in fact, I'm pretty sure nobody here even mentioned mag capacity as a reason for carrying a specific firearm.

I do agree though, simple is better. And a revolver is as simple as it gets.

But a quick counter point...

The reason why we carry is to be prepared for the unexpected. So why not be prepared with extra ammo in the event there are more bad guys? Semi's have come a long way in terms of reliability and accuracy so why not carry something that has a higher mag capacity.

Better to have and not need, than need and not have.

[bulldog]

why does it seem like everyone is all caught up with the fascination of a high capacity semi-auto? what's wrong with a simple 5-6 shot revolver? Low maintenance, no jamming, compact.

I mean really, in the event you ever need to defend yourself with your concealed carry, do you REALLY think you need 10+ rounds?

Here's a good article for ya...

http://www.gunthorp.com/first%20gun.htm What's everyones facination with concealed weapons is my question :lol: We live in Colorado and I see very little violence here

[thankgod]

:headbang:
I don't think anybody here is caught up in the fascination of a high cap semi auto...in fact, I'm pretty sure nobody here even mentioned mag capacity as a reason for carrying a specific firearm.

I do agree though, simple is better. And a revolver is as simple as it gets.

But a quick counter point...

The reason why we carry is to be prepared for the unexpected. So why not be prepared with extra ammo in the event there are more bad guys? Semi's have come a long way in terms of reliability and accuracy so why not carry something that has a higher mag capacity.

Better to have and not need, than need and not have.

[thankgod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-3GTwalrGY

Here's a perfectly good reason to carry.

[bulldog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-3GTwalrGY

Here's a perfectly good reason to carry. lol...not even going to get into this. I just think we all do not realize we live in a very safe city. Now if we lived in Detriot or St. Louis I would understand better. I have seen very few fights here even...

Denver is ranked #141 for crime :lol: http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2010/City_crime_rate_2010-2011_hightolow.pdf

[Hibs]

But a quick counter point...

The reason why we carry is to be prepared for the unexpected. So why not be prepared with extra ammo in the event there are more bad guys? Semi's have come a long way in terms of reliability and accuracy so why not carry something that has a higher mag capacity.

Better to have and not need, than need and not have.

Right.... cause we all know that the collapse of modern civilization is going to happen at the end of the Mayan calendar in 2012 followed by Z-Day, LOL

I understand your logic, but needing more ammo in the event there are more bad guys? You got small armies terrorizing your neighborhood or what?

Hell, you have more guns for "each occasion" then I have pairs of underwear. Seems to be case of overkill in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but, not really what the average person needs.

[OUTLAWD]

We live in Colorado and I see very little violence here

+1

[Vitesse304]

Right.... cause we all know that the collapse of modern civilization is going to happen at the end of the Mayan calendar in 2012 followed by Z-Day, LOL

I understand your logic, but needing more ammo in the event there are more bad guys? You got small armies terrorizing your neighborhood or what?

Hell, you have more guns for "each occasion" then I have pairs of underwear. Seems to be case of overkill in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but, not really what the average person needs.

There are lots of examples where only 5 or 6 shots wouldn't be enough, and with the slow reload time for a revolver, you're at a disadvantage.

What if you were walking your dog and a pack of wild dogs or coyotes attacked you and your dog? Being a fast animal and with the close proximity to your dog, you might miss a few times or hesitate for fear of hitting your dog. In that instance, it would be nice to have more rounds than you need.

The issue isn't being overkill, or carrying a "warrior's loadout" for the average civilian. For all my carry firearms except the 1911's and the SP101's, I don't even carry a reload. But I usually do have a spare mag in the car. Again, just to be prepared.

And yes, I guarantee that I have more firearms than you have changes of underwear. I guess you could say I'm a gun nut, but I'm no fanatic. I feel that an armed citizen is a protected citizen, and the reason why I have so many guns is because I enjoy competitive shooting and the challenge of reloading and tailoring a load to a specific gun. The whole thing with zombies, end of the world, etc, is just nonsense if you ask me. Do I have enough guns and ammo to protect my family and friends in case the world ends? Yes, but that's just a by-product of having a hobby that I love. Same reason why I have 6 bikes in the garage...I'll never ride them all at the same time, but I do enjoy riding them all...one at a time!

[Kim-n-Dean]

Do I have enough guns and ammo to protect my family and friends in case the world ends? Yes, but that's just a by-product of having a hobby that I love. Same reason why I have 6 bikes in the garage...I'll never ride them all at the same time, but I do enjoy riding them all...one at a time!Well said! Great analogy!

[thankgod]

I don't even really carry my firearms on me. They are in a safe at home, waiting for the zombie apocolypse. Ok so the vid might be a little taboo. But i just wanted to express a point. He could have shot the wrong person, which happens a lot. That's where the responsibility factor came in. You can't just pull out a gun and start capping niggas, your life has to be threatened, (i.e x-wife driving her SUV towards you at 40 MPH while your walking your new GF to your car after a movie.)>.< j/k... He was ready to defend himself, maybe someone else, and he's right about not getting rid of guns, they are not going to go anywhere, as long as we're still a country. I think by educating peeps about how, ya know, considering guns kill more people in the US than anywhere else in the world. I mean did you know that most gun related deaths in the US are suicide related? A whopping 56% or maybe more. Mostly males, (women try killing themselves too but were way better at it.):P So if your gonna be a firearm enthusiast, do so with caution and respect for your weapon. Know your target. Remember that you are going to destroy whatever is at the receiving end of that hand cannon.

Nothing else.......:doublefinger:.

Wrong meeting >.<:horse:

[Hibs]

There are lots of examples where only 5 or 6 shots wouldn't be enough, and with the slow reload time for a revolver, you're at a disadvantage.

What if you were walking your dog and a pack of wild dogs or coyotes attacked you and your dog? Being a fast animal and with the close proximity to your dog, you might miss a few times or hesitate for fear of hitting your dog. In that instance, it would be nice to have more rounds than you need.

The issue isn't being overkill, or carrying a "warrior's loadout" for the average civilian. For all my carry firearms except the 1911's and the SP101's, I don't even carry a reload. But I usually do have a spare mag in the car. Again, just to be prepared.

And yes, I guarantee that I have more firearms than you have changes of underwear. I guess you could say I'm a gun nut, but I'm no fanatic. I feel that an armed citizen is a protected citizen, and the reason why I have so many guns is because I enjoy competitive shooting and the challenge of reloading and tailoring a load to a specific gun. The whole thing with zombies, end of the world, etc, is just nonsense if you ask me. Do I have enough guns and ammo to protect my family and friends in case the world ends? Yes, but that's just a by-product of having a hobby that I love. Same reason why I have 6 bikes in the garage...I'll never ride them all at the same time, but I do enjoy each one of them!

I never said there's anything wrong with owning lots of guns. I own lots of guns myself, they each serve their purpose. And I understand the guys who buy guns just to collect or as a hobby, even if they each don't serve a purpose. But having 10 guns each tailored for different occasions of concealed carry, lol, that just seems like overkill. To each their own though, and hey, if you have the money, why not right?

And a pack of wild coyotes attacking me and my dog? Damn, yall must have some crazy ass coyotes there in colorado, I can't wait! I've been hunting all my life, and have yet to find a coyote or pack of coyotes that would willingly "attack" any person or a person with a dog. I've called in a double before (two coyotes at the same time) and the moment I fire that first shot, that second coyote splits so fast he left burnout marks on the grass. I have never heard of a pack of coyotes doing what you described.

So, what other scenarios do you have?

[Vitesse304]

I never said there's anything wrong with owning lots of guns. I own lots of guns myself, they each serve their purpose. And I understand the guys who buy guns just to collect or as a hobby, even if they each don't serve a purpose. But having 10 guns each tailored for different occasions of concealed carry, lol, that just seems like overkill. To each their own though, and hey, if you have the money, why not right?

And a pack of wild coyotes attacking me and my dog? Damn, yall must have some crazy ass coyotes there in colorado, I can't wait! I've been hunting all my life, and have yet to find a coyote or pack of coyotes that would willingly "attack" any person or a person with a dog. I've called in a double before (two coyotes at the same time) and the moment I fire that first shot, that second coyote splits so fast he left burnout marks on the grass. I have never heard of a pack of coyotes doing what you described.

So, what other scenarios do you have?


I certainly didn't buy 10 different guns to be tailored for specific occasions for carry. I happen to have a lot of guns that I like to carry. It's like which watch will I wear today, which sunglasses, etc...the only thing that would perclude me from wearing a specific gun is the clothing that I'm wearing or where I'm going. Ex. I would carry my LCP in a pocket holster if I am attending a formal event in a suit and tie. If it's the middle of summer and I'm wearing cargo pants and an untucked shirt, I like to carry one of my 1911's.

The original poster was asking about which gun should he get, I ran through the options that I have and made some reccomendations.

There's no reason for me to continue to bring this thread off topic, and honestly, I shouldn't have even responded knowing this would get into a pissing match. We all have our own beliefs and reasons for what we do, right or wrong, we're entitled to them. Trying to argue about it on the internet is just silly.

Stay warm down there in Florida! I heard it's been a brutal winter down there!

[dallas]

So, what other scenarios do you have?

Bear, mountian lion, rattle snakes, mob of angry hippies, lots of scenarios in the great state of Colorado.

[thankgod]

I never said there's anything wrong with owning lots of guns. I own lots of guns myself, they each serve their purpose. And I understand the guys who buy guns just to collect or as a hobby, even if they each don't serve a purpose. But having 10 guns each tailored for different occasions of concealed carry, lol, that just seems like overkill. To each their own though, and hey, if you have the money, why not right?

And a pack of wild coyotes attacking me and my dog? Damn, yall must have some crazy ass coyotes there in colorado, I can't wait! I've been hunting all my life, and have yet to find a coyote or pack of coyotes that would willingly "attack" any person or a person with a dog. I've called in a double before (two coyotes at the same time) and the moment I fire that first shot, that second coyote splits so fast he left burnout marks on the grass. I have never heard of a pack of coyotes doing what you described.

So, what other scenarios do you have?


I was walking my dog behind my apartment complex a few years ago when he and I were attacked by a coyote. I was carrying my .45 GAP (illegally). The coyote came up and bit my dog from behind, my dog got loose, ran after the animal then as my doggy came running back towards me, the coyote came running up to Raggs and bit him on the hind leg!!!:shocked:SHE CAME BACK FOR A FIGHT! I was getting very frustrated with trying to get this fierce coyote off of us. I made myself appear bigger to the animal and started growling. Then she backed off. There was a family playing basball at a field that was nearby, they heard the commotion as I was walking away from the seen towards them. A man came running down the trail his son both where wielding knives. They asked if I was ok and I was but my dog was bleeding pretty bad , from his brush with that mean ol' Coyote. Had to take him to the emergency room. I called the cops and told them about the situation and asked about repercussions of firing my weapon at the animal. Well, long story short, I would have gone to jail, (if caught) faced a fine and had my gun confiscated! Tell you what though, if I would have been in the forest someplace...I'd have a new coyote pelt. WTF? It's so rare too, for a cotyote to do that around these parts.

[hcr25]

Colorado unlike some other states will issue concealed weapons permits fairly easy. My guess would be that if you look at states that will not issue permits, the murder rate and violent crime rates will be higher then the one who will issue.

People everyday say I dont see it happening, it will never happen to me. Maybe not. I hope it never does but it will happen to somone it does everyday. If you decide to get the permit and carry. Take a good class shoot often.

As for as a specific handgun goes. The that is the best is the one you like. It fits your hand, its easy to shoot, you can afford it and the ammo to shoot it.

[thankgod]

:canuck:
Bear, mountian lion, rattle snakes, mob of angry hippies, lots of scenarios in the great state of Colorado.

[Hibs]

Vitesse, sorry if you think I was trying to get into a pissing match, wasn't my intentions.

The weather here hasn't been to bad, IMO. I mean, the locals might not like it, but I'm a Nebraska native so the 50 degree days during the winter really are a pleasure for me! LOL!

[Kim-n-Dean]

An analogy that I really like, goes;

Q: Do you have a fire extinguisher in your house?
A: Yes

Q: Is it loaded?
A: Yes

Q: Have you ever needed it?
A: No

Then throw it away!!!

I was on the phone with a friend when he got another call. It was his daughter and she was out taking a walk and thought she'd call her Dad. While on the phone with her, she was mugged. She now carries pepper spray.

Another friend of ours was mugged and she now carries a tazer.

I came home one day and our house was robbed. We now have an alarm.

Too late to decide to carry after you're dead!!! Since crime is random, I decided to be prepared. This planet gets more fucked up every day!!

[thankgod]

:headbang::usa::rock:
An analogy that I really like, goes;

Q: Do you have a fire extinguisher in your house?
A: Yes

Q: Is it loaded?
A: Yes

Q: Have you ever needed it?
A: No

Then throw it away!!!

I was on the phone with a friend when he got another call. It was his daughter and she was out taking a walk and thought she'd call her Dad. While on the phone with her, she was mugged. She now carries pepper spray.

Another friend of ours was mugged and she now carries a tazer.

I came home one day and our house was robbed. We now have an alarm.

Too late to decide to carry after you're dead!!! Since crime is random, I decided to be prepared. This planet gets more fucked up every day!!

[thankgod]

back to the subject at hand...Giz, think you should get a glock. :D There is also a 75 dollar CCW trainging class at Gander MT. That you could take too.

[Vitesse304]

Vitesse, sorry if you think I was trying to get into a pissing match, wasn't my intentions.

The weather here hasn't been to bad, IMO. I mean, the locals might not like it, but I'm a Nebraska native so the 50 degree days during the winter really are a pleasure for me! LOL!


No worries, it seems anytime a "controversial" topic comes up on any message board, they generally run off topic!

Don't get me wrong, I love talking guns, but some of the arguments on the internet these days are just draining to read through...
What caliber is best, Glock vs. Springfield, AR vs. AK, etc...It's hard changing someone's mind, especially since just about everybody can voice their opinions on the internet!

[derekm]

I like glocks personally but more importantly having a firearm ready to be used(cleaned, known good ammo)and having as much time under my belt target shooting as possible. Remember YOU are responsible for where ever the round ends up. Also,I know 110% I would have ZERO issues dropping anyone's blood pressure down to zero if my or my life or families life was in jeopardy.

[675Rider]

I carry a Glock 33, pocket rocket!

[TurboGizzmo]

An analogy that I really like, goes;

Q: Do you have a fire extinguisher in your house?
A: Yes

Q: Is it loaded?
A: Yes

Q: Have you ever needed it?
A: No

Then throw it away!!!

I was on the phone with a friend when he got another call. It was his daughter and she was out taking a walk and thought she'd call her Dad. While on the phone with her, she was mugged. She now carries pepper spray.

Another friend of ours was mugged and she now carries a tazer.

I came home one day and our house was robbed. We now have an alarm.

Too late to decide to carry after you're dead!!! Since crime is random, I decided to be prepared. This planet gets more fucked up every day!!

I am all for getting everything within my rights.....motorcycle training and permit....check.....airplane pilot.....in progress..... helicopter pilot....still in progress..... concealed weapons permit....still in progress....never know when you will need any of those...

[dragos13]

An analogy that I really like, goes;

Q: Do you have a fire extinguisher in your house?
A: Yes

Q: Is it loaded?
A: Yes

Q: Have you ever needed it?
A: No

Then throw it away!!!

I was on the phone with a friend when he got another call. It was his daughter and she was out taking a walk and thought she'd call her Dad. While on the phone with her, she was mugged. She now carries pepper spray.

Another friend of ours was mugged and she now carries a tazer.

I came home one day and our house was robbed. We now have an alarm.

Too late to decide to carry after you're dead!!! Since crime is random, I decided to be prepared. This planet gets more fucked up every day!!

Excellent way of putting it Dean. And just like Mike said, you don't carry hoping to use the weapon, you carry in case something happens and it's needed. You use the weapon only when it's your life or the life of your loved ones in danger. It's not that we aren't in a safe environment but remember last year when the crazy guy went and shot up the middleschool in Littleton? I know we haven't forgotten about Columbine, Virginia Tech, multiple robberies every day across the country where the good guys end up dead. I will die happy if I never need to pull my weapon out, but I won't die helpless at the hands of some scum bag.

In the end, to each their own. I support people who choose not to carry, please respect the guys who choose to carry. If you decide to carry, practice a lot and understand your rights and legal ramifications if you ever feel the need to draw.

As for the original topic, I used to carry a compact SIG but was too large to wear with my normal summer atire. I now have a sub-compact G27 with in-the-waistband holster.

[dragos13]

One last rant, when we remove the right to carry we are only removing that right from the law abiding citizens, as criminals have never and will never make their choices based on the legal system.

[jbnwc]

lol...not even going to get into this. I just think we all do not realize we live in a very safe city. Now if we lived in Detriot or St. Louis I would understand better. I have seen very few fights here even...

Denver is ranked #141 for crime :lol: http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2010/City_crime_rate_2010-2011_hightolow.pdf

Since there is so little crime, maybe we should lay off half the police force.:slap:

[jbnwc]

One last rant, when we remove the right to carry we are only removing that right from the law abiding citizens, as criminals have never and will never make their choices based on the legal system.

^^^This is the often forgotten fact that gets laws passed. Amen.

[Cars-R-Coffins]

Since there is so little crime, maybe we should lay off half the police force.:slap:

There is so little crime because of the number of cops.

[brennahm]

^Sorry, but no.

I lived in Jacksonville FL for 2 years. They regularly have the highest murder rate in the country. There are also more cops in that city than you will ever see. I will never buy the "more cops = less crime" argument.

[Cars-R-Coffins]

Than what correlation do you buy between crime and cops? Please share through PM so we don't muddy this thread up anymore.

[jbnwc]

Than what correlation do you buy between crime and cops? Please share through PM so we don't muddy this thread up anymore.

correlation <> causation

maybe it's because we have so many CCW holders?
or we're just nice people?
or more bikers = less crime?
or we have more freedom?
or we have colder weather?

[dirkterrell]

Yeah, economic conditions are a much better indicator of crime likelihood than number of police (at the levels that they can be affordably deployed) .

Dirk

[TFOGGuys]

Cops do little to prevent crime, and are under no obligation to protect individuals, even those that have obtained restraining orders...


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Don't get me wrong, I think cops have a very important job, which is difficult and dangerous, and I have nothing but respect for those that take on those responsibilities, but I'm not going to fool myself that they will be able to protect me from crime. Only I can take that responsibility.

[TinkerinWstuff]

I use a compact Glock 27.

Wife has a Ruger LCR .357

That LCR is really a sweet piece. Shoots real well, light, affordable, comfortable in the hand. My favorite gun shop says it's their number one seller right now.

[dirkterrell]

Ok, I grabbed some stats from Wikipedia and various police department web sites on violent crime rates, populations and number of police officers for a variety of US cities. Violent rime rates (number per 1000 citizens in 2009) and populations came from this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate). Here are the numbers (sorry about the formatting):


City Population # Cops #Citizens per officer Violent crime rate
DC 599657 4050 148.06 12.65
Baltimore 638755 3100 206.05 15.13
Philadelphia 1547605 6600 234.49 12.38
NYC 8400907 34500 243.5 5.52
St Louis 355208 1372 258.9 20.7
Detroit 908441 3500 259.55 19.67
Cleveland 429238 1600 268.27 13.95
Cincinnati 333568 1057 315.58 11.92
Buffalo 268655 850 316.06 14.59
Memphis 667421 2100 317.82 18.06
Kansas City 484684 1400 346.2 13
Miami 419205 1100 381.1 11.89
Denver 604680 1459 414.45 5.78
Albuquerque 530636 1100 482.4 7.69
Sacramento 470308 799 588.62 8.86
Oakland 404553 650 622.39 16.79
San Jose 954009 1245 766.27 3.6
Stockton 292212 343 851.93 12.67
Anaheim 335970 380 884.13 3.52 and here is the plot of violent crime rate versus the number of officers:

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/images/crime_vs_officer_count.png


Now, if there were a correlation between the number of officers and the crime rate, we'd expect to see the points scatter from lower left (small crime rate for a small number of people per officer) to upper right (high crime rate when officers have to police a lot of people).

But that's not at all what we see here. The line through the points, in fact, goes the opposite way. That's not to say that the data support decreasing the number of officers to decrease the crime rate. Note the R-squared value for the fit in the upper right. It's 0.24. If the two numbers were perfectly correlated, it would be 1.0. A value of 0.24 basically tells us that there is essentially no relationship between the number of police per capita and the crime rate in these data. Looking at two cities of similar size, St. Louis and Anaheim, they have very different numbers. St. Louis has 259 citizens per officer. Anaheim has 884, about three times fewer officers per capita. But the crime rate in St. Louis is nearly six times as high.

And while looking for those numbers, I came across this interesting experiment which seems to support the conclusion above:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_preventive_patrol_experiment

Dirk

[TinkerinWstuff]

facts, graphs, and logic on a Friday?

[dirkterrell]

That's the downside to piquing my interest in something that data can address, especially when it comes to the efficacy of government functions. :D

[jbnwc]

That's the downside to piquing my interest in something that data can address, especially when it comes to the defecacy of government functions. :D

Fixored it for you.

[hcr25]

That's the downside to piquing my interest in something that data can address, especially when it comes to the efficacy of government functions. :D


Nice job! can you do that with the states that allwo concealed carry and the ones that dont?

[dirkterrell]

Nice job! can you do that with the states that allwo concealed carry and the ones that dont?

Let me see if I can find the CCW numbers by state.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Nice job! can you do that with the states that allwo concealed carry and the ones that dont?

almost positive it's already been done. The conceal carry crowd has cited statistics for years about how crime has decreased in every major city where CC was legalized.

A much better site for info in the whole ccw topic is www.defensivecarry.com (http://www.defensivecarry.com)
and www.handgunlaw.us (http://www.handgunlaw.us)

[puckstr]

I carry a Polish P-64. I will be replacing it soon, with a Sig p238.
The P-64 is awesome but a bit heavy.
http://www.nazarian.no/images/wep/60_p64-2.jpg (http://www.nazarian.no/images/wep/60_p64-2.jpg)http://customizedcreationz.com/images/600_CCAS_P238_Ambi_Safety.jpg

[MAZIN]

Hey puck the p238 is a great little gun, Just got my wife one for her work carry (the g-30 is a bit big for lodo bis casual attire). MAGS are freakin expensive though. Sportsmans had a decent price it was like $540 ish.