House Judiciary Committee passes Constitutional Carry 8 to 3

[puckstr]

http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/cimages/d9b0764a441755fae84a0de3b2016bbd/header2.jpg (outbind://10-00000000D97DCBD77B6CCC4E805198FF80DD935304602100/www.rmgo.org)
House Judiciary Committee passes Constitutional Carry 8 to 3


Nice work. Constitutional Carry -- HB1205 -- passed out of its committee yesterday and moved to the House Floor thanks to your calls and e-mails.
State Rep. Chris Holbert (R-Parker) -- who is a long-time RMGO member and activist -- did a fantastic job of presenting the bill and framing the debate when presenting it to the House Judiciary Committee.
Rep. Holbert told the committee that open carry in public areas is legal in most parts of Colorado and requires no permit, no fees, no training and no lists, but the second you cover the handgun with a coat or sweater you are required to obtain a permit.
In essence, he said, it's a Coat Tax. Put your coat on, and you have to pay the tax. His bill would make that a voluntary tax, since there would be no need to pay the tax (acquire a permit) if HB1205 becomes law.
RMGO Executive Director Dudley Brown then testified to the growing movement of states allowing permitless carry, and the many more which are considering passing just such a law. In Vermont, Alaska and now Arizona, there has been no increase in crime.
Both of those messages resonated with members of the committee, and the bill passed with the votes of every Republican and even two Democrats.
This is just one more great example of how effective your voice really is.
Now the work gets tougher. The bill is headed for the House floor, where we really have to turn up the heat. If you and I want Constitutional Carry in Colorado, we must make politicians feel the heat with our phone calls and e-mails.
The House Co-sponsors on HB1205 are:
Acree, Balmer, Barker, Baumgardner, Becker, Bradford, Brown, Conti, DelGrosso, Holbert, Joshi, Kerr J., Looper, Massey, McKinley, McNulty, Murray, Nikkel, Priola, Scott, Sonnenberg, Stephens, Summers, Swerdfeger, Vaad, Waller.
In addition, Reps. Bob Gardner, Daniel Kagan and Pete Lee have now voted for this bill in Committee.
If you don't see your State Representative on either of these lists, they have not yet co-sponsored this bill or voted in favor of it yet. It is imperative that you take just a few minutes to do this simple two-step process before the House floor vote.
If they are on this list, take a moment to contact them and tell them to keep up the good work and continue to support this important bill.
1) Click on this link (http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/ct/5435101:8118650260:m:1:211480104:DDB7FCEC3FEF55F68 99F4AF8D4EE4E8B) to find your State Representative if you don't already know.
2) Call your Representative. The phone number for all State Representatives is 303-866-2904 or toll free at 1-800-811-7647.

Tell them you stand with Rocky Mountain Gun Owners.
Tell them it is vital they support Constitutional Carry in Colorado without further amendments.
And tell them you are watching their vote carefully and counting on their support.
Again, you can reach all State Representatives by calling 303-866-2904 or toll free at 1-800-811-7647 and they'll connect you to your State Representative.
Constitutional Carry in Colorado depends on your involvement.
Please join us in the push to get this bill past the House.

[Titus]

Great news!!!

[dirkterrell]

2) Call your Representative.

Because of where I live, I have a feeling I would have a more productive conversation with a wall but I will let them know my position on this. :)

Dirk

[TinkerinWstuff]

it's always seemed a bit silly since the criminal doesn't care about a stinkin permit.

What's funny is anti-gunners get so worked up thinking everyone has a gun when in actuality, it's such a pain in the ass to do so that few people actually carry on a daily basis. Most folks, IMO, just don't want the gubberment telling them what they can and can't do.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Now we'll have dipshits that can't even park their cars carrying guns. If nothing else, for the cool factor. This is a terrible idea. If you want to carry that bad, show some commitment and go take a class!!!

Terrible, terrible idea!!!!!

The only thing good about this law, is that we won't have to pay every five years to keep our permits current. Kim just re-upped hers last week.

[Kim-n-Dean]

it's always seemed a bit silly since the criminal doesn't care about a stinkin permit.

What's funny is anti-gunners get so worked up thinking everyone has a gun when in actuality, it's such a pain in the ass to do so that few people actually carry on a daily basis. Most folks, IMO, just don't want the gubberment telling them what they can and can't do.It's not a pain in the ass. It's one class and some money. Show some commitment to a great responsibility!!

[TinkerinWstuff]

re read my post Dean and get off your soapbox.

[Kim-n-Dean]

re read my post Dean and get off your soapbox.Soapbox? I read it a few times. What did I miss?

Anyone who wants to carry in this state already can. Show your commitment and take the class!!

[puckstr]

I took the class. I paid the $$$, and if this passes I want a refund.

[TinkerinWstuff]

What's funny is anti-gunners get so worked up thinking everyone has a gun when in actuality, it's such a pain in the ass to do so that few people actually carry on a daily basis. Most folks, IMO, just don't want the gubberment telling them what they can and can't do.


It's not a pain in the ass. It's one class and some money. Show some commitment to a great responsibility!!

Take the class, go the courthouse, go to a grocery store and get a money order, go back to the courthouse, go to the jail to be fingerprinted, go back to the courthouse and turn in papers, wait 90 days, phone call from sherrif, setup appointment to go back to courthouse, get photo taken and sign papers, wait a week for permit in the mail


re read my post Dean and get off your soapbox.


Soapbox? I read it a few times. What did I miss?

Anyone who wants to carry in this state already can. Show your commitment and take the class!!

I have a shoebox of holsters and clothes taylored for conceal carry. I also have permits in multiple states and travel for business. Carry is a pain in the ass.

Respecting the rights of businesses who do not want you to carry there and being aware of obscure signage is a pain in the ass. Being fluent in applicable law and knowing exactly what your rights are is a pain in the ass.

Few people take on this responsibility daily and choose to use their permit. Of all the people who've obtained a permit, I would speculate a guess that less than 25% of them actually carry on a daily basis.

People who want to carry, "cuz it's cool" also like to shoot and practice. The consequences for being right or wrong in a shoot aren't any different if you've had a class or not. Just because more people might have the right to carry protection without burdonsome permits, doesn't mean more people would be carrying - cuz it's a pain in the ass.

[modette99]

..

[TFOGGuys]

I took the class. I paid the $$$, and if this passes I want a refund.

I want my 3 dollah back!

Dean, I respectfully disagree. Yes, take as much instruction as you can afford, but don't make it mandatory. The right to self defense should not be restricted those that can afford to take time off work to take a class, shell out a couple hundred bucks or more to pay for the class, permits, fingerprinting, etc., take more time off to go apply (Tuesdays and Thursdays only, between 10 and noon or 1 and 3 only), wait 90 days for a governmental colonoscopy, and take more time off to go have their picture taken(badly) and pasted on a card. Criminals don't do any of the above, and the penalties are very light.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Take the class, go the courthouse, go to a grocery store and get a money order, go back to the courthouse, go to the jail to be fingerprinted, go back to the courthouse and turn in papers, wait 90 days, phone call from sherrif, setup appointment to go back to courthouse, get photo taken and sign papers, wait a week for permit in the mailWow! I guess I plan better than you. If that was too taxing for you, why did you do it? Actually, I don't care.

Don't forget about buying the gun, too. Go to the store, pick out the one you want. Go home and spend hours online researching specs. and price. Go back to the store to look at it again and make sure it's the right one. Fill out some paper work. Go eat lunch waiting for approval. Get phone call from store. Go to bank to get money. Go back to the store to pick up weapon.


I have a shoebox of holsters and clothes taylored for conceal carry. I also have permits in multiple states and travel for business. Carry is a pain in the ass. I only have one holster. I got it right the first time.:D All the states I go to honor my Colorado permit. So, I guess I got lucky.


Respecting the rights of businesses who do not want you to carry there and being aware of obscure signage is a pain in the ass. Being fluent in applicable law and knowing exactly what your rights are is a pain in the ass.Wow! Again, this is too taxing for you? You shouldn't be carrying!


Few people take on this responsibility daily and choose to use their permit. Of all the people who've obtained a permit, I would speculate a guess that less than 25% of them actually carry on a daily basis.Who cares?!?


People who want to carry, "cuz it's cool" also like to shoot and practice. The consequences for being right or wrong in a shoot aren't any different if you've had a class or not. Just because more people might have the right to carry protection without burdonsome permits, doesn't mean more people would be carrying - cuz it's a pain in the ass.It's still not a pain in ass the to me.

Now, to piss off everyone else... Look how many people put stupid shit on their bikes just for looks, serves no purpose at all. Some things even decrease the performance. These types of people carrying scare the shit out of me! Do you have a fuzzy mohawk on your helmet?

[TinkerinWstuff]

you've missed the point and I'm done with you.

[jbnwc]

Now we'll have dipshits that can't even park their cars carrying guns. If nothing else, for the cool factor. This is a terrible idea. If you want to carry that bad, show some commitment and go take a class!!!

Terrible, terrible idea!!!!!

The only thing good about this law, is that we won't have to pay every five years to keep our permits current. Kim just re-upped hers last week.

While initially I agree with you, Dean, they haven't had any problems in the other states that already allow this. That make me think we aren't going to have any more trouble after this law passes. When it comes to freedom vs control issues, I prefer to err on the side of Freedom, even if it might come with some downsides.


.

[Kim-n-Dean]

I want my 3 dollah back!

Dean, I respectfully disagree. Yes, take as much instruction as you can afford, but don't make it mandatory. The right to self defense should not be restricted those that can afford to take time off work to take a class, shell out a couple hundred bucks or more to pay for the class, permits, fingerprinting, etc., take more time off to go apply (Tuesdays and Thursdays only, between 10 and noon or 1 and 3 only), wait 90 days for a governmental colonoscopy, and take more time off to go have their picture taken(badly) and pasted on a card. Criminals don't do any of the above, and the penalties are very light.Well... that's just how it goes with something that is this powerful.

Drivers license aren't just handed out, either. You have to take a test and prove you know the laws and more importantly, how to drive.

If people were responsible, then I would be all for this law. Like I said earlier, people can't even park their car. If this law passes, they can carry a gun easier than getting a drivers license. Just doesn't sound logical to me. Our state will issue a permit if you follow the procedure. So, follow it and show some responsibility.

[Kim-n-Dean]

you've missed the point and I'm done with you.Yeah, that's funny! You give up too easy. That's why carrying is a pain in the ass for you!

So, do you have a mohaw?

[jbnwc]

Yeah, that's funny! You give up too easy. That's why carrying is a pain in the ass for you!

So, do you have a mohaw?

My neighbor has a mohawk and a ccw. :eyebrows:

[puckstr]

weeeeeee
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_V8razhn3N4Q/ShccIqM2nKI/AAAAAAAAAdI/Ki0t3UtcCEI/s400/pot+stirrer.jpg

[Kim-n-Dean]

While initially I agree with you, Dean, they haven't had any problems in the other states that already allow this. That make me think we aren't going to have any more trouble after this law passes. When it comes to freedom vs control issues, I prefer to err on the side of Freedom, even if it might come with some downsides.


.I wonder if population has anything to do with it. I don't know the statistics on how big the populous is in these other states, but instate Constitutional Carry in a huge populous and I bet "accidental" discharges increase significantly.

Since everyone in Alaska was probably already carrying and definitely grew up with guns, I totally understand how that state has had no problems with the law.

I know waaaaay too many idiots in this state that would love to shove a gun down their pants. I hope they don't get their way!!!

[TinkerinWstuff]

Yeah, that's funny! You give up too easy. That's why carrying is a pain in the ass for you!

So, do you have a mohaw?

You are unnecessarily combative on this issue. I'm not certain you have the correct mentality for CCW and should probably have your permit revoked.

I'll stay the course and walk away from a fight thanks.

[Kim-n-Dean]

My neighbor has a mohawk and a ccw. :eyebrows:
...but, is it on his helmet?:p

[TinkerinWstuff]

I know waaaaay too many idiots in this state that would love to shove a gun down their pants. I hope they don't get their way!!!

there's nothing stopping them, they just have to pay a coat tax.

[Kim-n-Dean]

You are unnecessarily combative on this issue. I'm not certain you have the correct mentality for CCW and should probably have your permit revoked.

I'll stay the course and walk away from a fight thanks.First I'm on a soapbox and now I'm Combative? I can't help it that you can't see my face or hear my tone of voice. I'm simply stating my opinion. EDIT - I deleted the rest because I just don't give a shit.

I thought you were done...

[Kim-n-Dean]

there's nothing stopping them, they just have to pay a coat tax.
There is something stopping them. Their lack of commitment to take a class!

[Rhino]

Now we'll have dipshits that can't even park their cars carrying guns. If nothing else, for the cool factor. This is a terrible idea. If you want to carry that bad, show some commitment and go take a class!!!

Terrible, terrible idea!!!!!

The only thing good about this law, is that we won't have to pay every five years to keep our permits current. Kim just re-upped hers last week.

:wtf:

"Rep. Holbert told the committee that open carry in public areas is legal in most parts of Colorado and requires no permit, no fees, no training and no lists, but the second you cover the handgun with a coat or sweater you are required to obtain a permit.
In essence, he said, it's a Coat Tax. Put your coat on, and you have to pay the tax."

So basically, the "idiots who can't park their car" are currently able to OPEN carry all they want. From your description, they sound like the types who would have gold plated Desert Eagles for everyone to see. ...in a nice Miami Vice style shoulder holster.

From what I read, the law simply allows the "anyone can carry openly without a permit (within the rules)" to "anyone can carry concealed as well without a permit".

[Kim-n-Dean]

:wtf:

"Rep. Holbert told the committee that open carry in public areas is legal in most parts of Colorado and requires no permit, no fees, no training and no lists, but the second you cover the handgun with a coat or sweater you are required to obtain a permit.
In essence, he said, it's a Coat Tax. Put your coat on, and you have to pay the tax."

So basically, the "idiots who can't park their car" are currently able to OPEN carry all they want. From your description, they sound like the types who would have gold plated Desert Eagles for everyone to see. ...in a nice Miami Vice style shoulder holster.

From what I read, the law simply allows the "anyone can carry openly without a permit (within the rules)" to "anyone can carry concealed as well without a permit".Well... hopefully the idiots don't know about the law. I'm going to guess they don't, based on how many people ask me about that exact thing.

It's too great a responsibility to open it up to anyone without training. You can't even ride your bike without an endorsement.

Even the people in my CCW class were pretty damn scary. There were thirty peeps in that class. Twenty eight of them scare the shit out of me now that they are allowed to carry.

So, it really comes down to - there is no clean cut answer when the general population is pretty much retarded!!

[Kim-n-Dean]

Yep and from what I have heard from people looking to take the class its silly and too easy. My dog could pass the test and get a permit. There should be more to it, range time should be required and making sure the person can handle the gun in a safe manor should be required.The class I took was a total joke!

Kim's was pretty good. In class air rifles and a full day of range time with live fire.

[Rhino]

If you want to use the classic "an armed society is a polite society"...

I'm sure the reason that most people don't currently open carry is because of all the attention it would draw. Our pussified society calls the cops in a heartbeat on reports of "man with a gun". Open carry has become the hassle that's not worth dealing with.

I'm sure if RMGO or others started a campaign that say July 4th, everyone who is legal to, open carry, where legal, everyday. Sure, 911 would be flooded for the first few hours/days, but if it became the norm...

[Kim-n-Dean]

If you want to use the classic "an armed society is a polite society"...Totally agree!


I'm sure the reason that most people don't currently open carry is because of all the attention it would draw. Our pussified society calls the cops in a heartbeat on reports of "man with a gun". Open carry has become the hassle that's not worth dealing with.ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!


I'm sure if RMGO or others started a campaign that say July 4th, everyone who is legal to, open carry, where legal, everyday. Sure, 911 would be flooded for the first few hours/days, but if it became the norm...Perhaps, some day, but it's still absolutely sickening that people feel the need to be armed!!!

[ghostrider_9]

I want my 3 dollah back!

Dean, I respectfully disagree. Yes, take as much instruction as you can afford, but don't make it mandatory. The right to self defense should not be restricted those that can afford to take time off work to take a class, shell out a couple hundred bucks or more to pay for the class, permits, fingerprinting, etc., take more time off to go apply (Tuesdays and Thursdays only, between 10 and noon or 1 and 3 only), wait 90 days for a governmental colonoscopy, and take more time off to go have their picture taken(badly) and pasted on a card. Criminals don't do any of the above, and the penalties are very light.
I have to agree with the basic premise here. I agree that we should not have to pay for a concealed permit. I agree that the government can convolute even the simplest of things.

At the same time, I do like the idea of someone checking when someone buys a weapon. I mean I wouldn’t want to have someone with a history of violent crimes to have easy access to a weapon (I realize that they can get the weapons, the point is that the check is a deterrent, not complete solution). I also have seen how little people know about weapons and can appreciate the need for training. I just do not think it should be mandatory for a person to own a weapon.


Wow! I guess I plan better than you. If that was too taxing for you, why did you do it? Actually, I don't care.

Now you’re just poking the bear.


Wow! Again, this is too taxing for you? You shouldn't be carrying!

This goes back to the discussion we had about liberties and freedom. Just because someone doesn’t have the same motivation doesn’t mean that they don’t deserve the same freedoms.


Now, to piss off everyone else... Look how many people put stupid shit on their bikes just for looks, serves no purpose at all. Some things even decrease the performance. These types of people carrying scare the shit out of me! Do you have a fuzzy mohawk on your helmet?

While I understand what you are getting at, I have to disagree. You are arguing personal tastes and how other people’s tastes aren’t the same as yours. While I personally wouldn’t own a stretched and slammed ‘busa, I can certainly appreciate the fact that someone else might like that. And if they are exceptionally “out there” then it is just plain entertaining . . . ask the Shervinator . . .


you've missed the point and I'm done with you.

If someone misses the point, take the time to enlighten them. You just can’t expect everyone to agree with you. Hopefully, you can get past the missed point and explain what you meant . . .


While initially I agree with you, Dean, they haven't had any problems in the other states that already allow this. That make me think we aren't going to have any more trouble after this law passes. When it comes to freedom vs control issues, I prefer to err on the side of Freedom, even if it might come with some downsides.

I am sure there will be some issues, at some point. This brings up two points:
1. Natural selection – people that play with things that can kill them either need to learn about them or fall victim to natural selection.
2. Natural evolution – If it becomes common for people to carry (which I personally would like to see), then the average level of education will be raised also. It’s like horses. People that are not around them are ignorant of how to act around them. When horses were a common form of transportation, people, in general, knew a lot more about them simply because of their exposure to them. If more people had weapons, there would also be a lot more people to help “guide” the mis-informed.


Well... that's just how it goes with something that is this powerful.

Drivers license aren't just handed out, either. You have to take a test and prove you know the laws and more importantly, how to drive.

If people were responsible, then I would be all for this law. Like I said earlier, people can't even park their car. If this law passes, they can carry a gun easier than getting a drivers license. Just doesn't sound logical to me. Our state will issue a permit if you follow the procedure. So, follow it and show some responsibility.

Again, I agree, but I also disagree. The main difference between a driver’s license and having the inalienable right to carry a weapon is that, at times having a weapon can mean the difference between life and death, while having a driver’s license is a convenience.


My neighbor has a mohawk and a ccw. :eyebrows:

Great point. Just because a person does not fit our personal ideas on what is right does not mean that they should not be afforded the same rights.


I wonder if population has anything to do with it. I don't know the statistics on how big the populous is in these other states, but instate Constitutional Carry in a huge populous and I bet "accidental" discharges increase significantly.

I agree with this 100%. It is inevitable.


I know waaaaay too many idiots in this state that would love to shove a gun down their pants. I hope they don't get their way!!!
I know waaaay too many idiots that already have legal permits. Unfortunately (and thankfully . . . for me anyway) not being an idiot is not one of the tests. I am sure that at some point, we have all said or done something that would constitute us being an idiot. Hopefully, we idiots learn from our mistakes. Furthermore, I hope that those of you that are not idiots have the patience to show the rest of us the error of our ways.

It’s kind of like when someone asks you to make something for them with your kick ass milling machine. They have no idea what it truly takes to get a piece of metal from a picture or idea to a completed product. Yet sitting down with you for a few minutes to talk about this can be very illuminating on all of the things that need to take place for this entire process to work. Providing a little bit of education from the hands of someone that knows how something works is how we raise the overall level of understanding about an issue. The more exposure people have on a topic, the more they learn.

[TinkerinWstuff]

If someone misses the point, take the time to enlighten them. You just can’t expect everyone to agree with you. Hopefully, you can get past the missed point and explain what you meant . . .


Would normally be glad to. But when someone has proven they are too closed-minded to consider any other position beyond their own preconceived notions, then attempting to do so would be a waste of time and energy.

[Kim-n-Dean]

The more exposure people have on a topic, the more they learn.I agree, but most people aren't willing to learn. I see it every day!!

I write my own programs for AutoCAD and when I worked in offices, people would ask how I get so much work done so fast. I would show them and ask if they want this-or-that program. The answer was always, "no!" People just don't like change or like to learn. I am ravenous for knowledge!!!! It's the only reason I know anything about anything. I have practically zero education.

Shit!! I can't even get someone to learn how to work the tire machine so they can do free tire changes for themselves.

BTW - The horse example was perfect!!

[ghostrider_9]

Would normally be glad to. But when someone has proven they are too closed-minded to consider any other position beyond their own preconceived notions, then attempting to do so would be a waste of time and energy.

Just a reminder that they aren't the only one reading this thread. You may not be able to persuade that person, but there are others that could be influenced or that might appreciate your ideas . . . just sayin'

[Kim-n-Dean]

Would normally be glad to. But when someone has proven they are too closed-minded to consider any other position beyond their own preconceived notions, then attempting to do so would be a waste of time and energy.I've responded to a few opinions in this thread. You're the only one bitching about it!

Yeah, and I'm definitely "close-minded"...

[ghostrider_9]

I agree, but most people aren't willing to learn. I see it every day!!

I write my own programs for AutoCAD and when I worked in offices, people would ask how I get so much work done so fast. I would show them and ask if they want this-or-that program. The answer was always, "no!" People just don't like change or like to learn. I am ravenous for knowledge!!!! It's the only reason I know anything about anything. I have practically zero education.

Shit!! I can't even get someone to learn how to work the tire machine so they can do free tire changes for themselves.

I agree, most people are inherently lazy. But that is because of society. If society had a different attitude, then people would also have a different attitude. Unfortunately, we live in a society that thrives on instant gratification instead of one that appreciates the benefit of earning your keep.


BTW - The horse example was perfect!!

Thanks!

[Kim-n-Dean]

Just a reminder that they aren't the only one reading this thread. You may not be able to persuade that person, but there are others that could be influenced or that might appreciate your ideas . . . just sayin'Ye ol' wise one.

[Kim-n-Dean]

I agree, most people are inherently lazy. But that is because of society. If society had a different attitude, then people would also have a different attitude. Unfortunately, we live in a society that thrives on instant gratification instead of one that appreciates the benefit of earning your keep.I believe that our grandparents and even maybe our parents were the last generations to give a shit...

[TinkerinWstuff]

I have a tendency to be close-minded and quick to judgment myself. When it comes to this debate and a few other hot-button issues we face these days, I find it's important to be more calm and patient. There are a lot of people uninformed on emotional and scary issues.

Attempts at personal attacks to goad me into a fight on this issue isn't going to happen. Others have done a good job of bringing up similar points to mine.

[puckstr]

I am looking forward to Riding Season. 61 degrees by Wednesday !!! :hump:

[Kim-n-Dean]

I have a tendency to be close-minded and quick to judgment myself. When it comes to this debate and a few other hot-button issues we face these days, I find it's important to be more calm and patient. There are a lot of people uninformed on emotional and scary issues.

Attempts at personal attacks to goad me into a fight on this issue isn't going to happen. Others have done a good job of bringing up similar points to mine.
So I like aggressive discussion. Big deal. (I don't really think I was being aggressive, though)

Soapbox? Combative? Personal attacks? Goad you into a fight? Do you have thin skin?

Anyway, gotta roll. I'll check back before I leave to make sure nothing funny was posted that I need to comment on...:makeout:

[Kim-n-Dean]

I am looking forward to Riding Season. 61 degrees by Wednesday !!! :hump:Riding season? Been riding all winter, but 61 deg. will be a nice change!!

[ghostrider_9]

I am looking forward to Riding Season. 61 degrees by Wednesday !!! :hump:

Looking forward to it! Maybe we should plan on lunch somewhere . . .


So I like aggressive discussion. Big deal. (I don't really think I was being aggressive, though)

Soapbox? Combative? Personal attacks? Goad you into a fight? Do you have thin skin?

It's all part of his charm . . . :slap:


Riding season? Been riding all winter, but 61 deg. will be a nice change!!

Exactly . . .

[ghostrider_9]

I believe that our grandparents and even maybe our parents were the last generations to give a shit...

The funny part is that they probably said the same thing . . .

[TinkerinWstuff]

So I like aggressive discussion. Big deal. (I don't really think I was being aggressive, though)

As do I. Look at the debate last fall regard Juan Williams firing.


Soapbox? Combative? Personal attacks? Goad you into a fight? Do you have thin skin?

Not usually, and not this time.

When the government "gives" you a right, they can also take it away. The power to give and take can also be mishandled by some individuals in "power".

You'll see on page one, I made a statement about your combativeness and having the right frame of mind for a permit. I'm not sure if anyone else caught on to the subtle point I was making.

What if you don't agree with something happening in your community? What if you decide to participate in a sit-in protest of something? What if you challenge the direction of your local government? What prevents someone in local government from filing a claim with the sheriff that they "feel threatened" by you and having your permit revoked?

It's great for you Dean that one gun and one holster works for you every day. Many other people have different wardrobes depending on the day. Warm weather, cold weather, formal attire, workout attire.... Many people find the need to use inside the waistband, outside the waistband, pocket carry, and sometimes maybe even shoulder holsters in order to navigate the complexities of daily life.

As another example, my wife is was out of town all week. She ended up leaving her firearm behind and went unarmed because the complexities of carrying safely and legally were too much. Evenings in a hotel and daytime on a government facility and she didn't want to leave her firearm in a hotel safe.

Many people have a picture of conceal carry that proves to be different from reality once they attempt to practice it on a daily basis. You can discount my position all you want but I believe most people would agree that carrying a firearm on a daily basis is a fucking pain in the ass.

So my point again is this; People fearful of firearms often have a belief that "everyone will have a gun", or "it will be the wild west". In reality, most people who obtain a permit or who may have their right to carry protected by Constitutional Carry, might do so for a month and quit.

Until that day someone's daughter tries to break up with her boyfriend that got creepy and she suddenly fears for her life. Sure, she can go apply for an emergency permit. Should she have to? Should she have to consult with the state for permission to protect herself?

Criminals don't care about permits. Licenses don't stop stupidity either.

[ghostrider_9]

Licenses don't stop stupidity either.

If you ever doubt this, just go for a drive on our lovely streets and you will be quickly reminded.

[TinkerinWstuff]

When the government "gives" you a right, they can also take it away. The power to give and take can also be mishandled by some individuals in "power".

You'll see on page one, I made a statement about your combativeness and having the right frame of mind for a permit. I'm not sure if anyone else caught on to the subtle point I was making.

What if you don't agree with something happening in your community? What if you decide to participate in a sit-in protest of something? What if you challenge the direction of your local government? What prevents someone in local government from filing a claim with the sheriff that they "feel threatened" by you and having your permit revoked?

If I can expand on this to aid some people's imaginations...

Lest say you have a 40 acre parcel. The city wants to change some right away across your land. You're mad and no one else cares because it doesn't affect them. You show up at town hall meetings and voice your opinions and it becomes apparent you are loosing the debate. In frustration you say to the board, "this is bullshit and if this were YOUR property, you guys wouldn't stand for this!"

Oh no, was that a threat you just made? Did someone on the board suddenly fear for their life? Maybe someone on that board isn't really afraid for their life but they're tired of your protests and ready for a little sweet revenge. So someone files a complaint that you've threatened them and goodbye to your permit.

If you really were a sick twisted individual ready to kill out of frustration then would the lack of a permit stop you?

Think it can't happen? It just did to that guy on the Greeley school board. His views on Martin Luther King were a little nutty but he lost his permit over it. They claim it's because he challenged a guy to a dual - he said the "dual" was about who could get more advertisers. Who's telling the truth? Does it matter? If he's crazy enough to kill, a permit isn't going to make a difference.

[TFOGGuys]

I might point out, all of the arguments against Constitutional Carry have at one time or another been used by the antigunners against CCW with a permit, open carry, even handgun ownership in general.

"Average people don't have sufficient training to carry/own guns."

"Having too many guns in the general public will cause chaos"

"There are too many idiots out there, only the police and military should have guns"

Any of those sound familiar? Yet, since Colorado passed "shall issue" for CHPs in 2003, crime in every category (particularly violent crime) has dropped precipitously, as have gun related deaths. Stupidity tends to be self correcting, thank Darwin...

[TinkerinWstuff]

Great post TFOG

[Kim-n-Dean]

You'll see on page one, I made a statement about your combativeness and having the right frame of mind for a permit. I'm not sure if anyone else caught on to the subtle point I was making. I know that I totally missed it.

...and, okay. I'll bite... How was I being "combative"?


What if you don't agree with something happening in your community? What if you decide to participate in a sit-in protest of something? What if you challenge the direction of your local government? What prevents someone in local government from filing a claim with the sheriff that they "feel threatened" by you and having your permit revoked?Yup! And the person who deserves to be "revoked", can't with this law. And if they're put on a list instead, then it's the same.


It's great for you Dean that one gun and one holster works for you every day.Cheaper, too!!


Many other people have different wardrobes depending on the day. Warm weather, cold weather, formal attire, workout attire.... Many people find the need to use inside the waistband, outside the waistband, pocket carry, and sometimes maybe even shoulder holsters in order to navigate the complexities of daily life.I'm sorry that it's so complex for you...


As another example, my wife is was out of town all week. She ended up leaving her firearm behind and went unarmed because the complexities of carrying safely and legally were too much. Evenings in a hotel and daytime on a government facility and she didn't want to leave her firearm in a hotel safe.Yup! That's all part of it! I'll still protect myself, though, rather than give up because of the "complexities"!


Many people have a picture of conceal carry that proves to be different from reality once they attempt to practice it on a daily basis. You can discount my position all you want but I believe most people would agree that carrying a firearm on a daily basis is a fucking pain in the ass.Where did I discount you? It's just not a pain in the ass for me to carry under any circumstance. As a matter of fact, I'm so used to it, that some shit will go down and I'll probably forget that I have the stupid thing!


So my point again is this; People fearful of firearms often have a belief that "everyone will have a gun", or "it will be the wild west". In reality, most people who obtain a permit or who may have their right to carry protected by Constitutional Carry, might do so for a month and quit.Okay. So...


Until that day someone's daughter tries to break up with her boyfriend that got creepy and she suddenly fears for her life. Sure, she can go apply for an emergency permit. Should she have to? Should she have to consult with the state for permission to protect herself? She's not asking for permission. If she meets the requirements by law, she gets it. Constitutional Carry still has requirements that have to be met.


Criminals don't care about permits. Licenses don't stop stupidity either.I see the example I used about a drivers license or an MC endorsement wasn't understood. To drive, we have to prove that we can handle that big, dangerous machine. To ride a bike is the same. So, you're saying to carry a gun, I don't have to prove shit?

BTW - You all know that it's Kim saying all this stupid shit, right?

[TFOGGuys]

Oh sure, blame Kim... :lol:

[TinkerinWstuff]

She's not asking for permission. If she meets the requirements by law, she gets it. Constitutional Carry still has requirements that have to be met.


Sure are. We've already met the requirements by law by being "LEGAL TO OWN" a gun in the first place. If I/he/she are already legal to own the firearm, then we are asking permission of the gubberment for authorization to carry it.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Oh sure, blame Kim... :lol:

The need to have a rebuttal for every statement does support the idea that it's a woman arguing.

WHOA! SNAP! I can do it too!

[jbnwc]

Shit!! I can't even get someone to learn how to work the tire machine so they can do free tire changes for themselves.



Wait, what?!? You mean it's free if I don't bother you to come help me?! I'm in.

BTW - my neighbor's mohawk IS on his helmet! The local CMA chaplain also has a mohawk on his helmet; when your kids buy it for you, you kinda have to wear it.

[ghostrider_9]

Oh sure, blame Kim... :lol:

I say we blame Kim for everthing!

[Kim-n-Dean]

Sure are. We've already met the requirements by law by being "LEGAL TO OWN" a gun in the first place. If I/he/she are already legal to own the firearm, then we are asking permission of the gubberment for authorization to carry it.I hear ya! Works the opposite way when people want to skip the background check for purchasing because they have a CCW.

However, being legal to own and knowing how to handle/possess a weapon in public are two different things. I've been target shooting with people who are legal to own and I was lucky to make it home alive!!!!!!!!!!! People just don't give me any confidence that they know how to handle weapons properly. I think they should have to prove they can handle it safely!!! Just like we do with motor vehicles...

[Spooph]

I think this discussion has gone horribly off-topic....

At the heart of it people who are under-educated about a subject fear it. Name the issue and there will be a majority. Kim, let me define the issue first....

The general public is under-educated about guns, therefor, they fear it. People in general are under-educated about each other. When's the last time you had a block party? People don't trust one another anymore. For some reason, we've all lost faith in humanity (and it's very easy to do), but we've taken it out of context applying the stupidity of the minority to the majority. Maybe I'm completely retarded but in general, I love the CSC community. We get along and move forward, aside the few idiots. (Get my point about majority and minority).

Right, education and fear. This law would help us bring guns to the forefront which WILL increase education and awareness. Although there might be a little crazyness in the beginning people will start to learn. Don't hide the education behind close doors, permits and other difficulties that shouldn't be there considering our Second Amendment....

I say along with PRD (personal resource development - sowing and cooking) and sex-ed in schools, put in place drivers-ed to match Finland's, and firearms-ed to educate everybody. Yes, lots of parents will have issues, yes, it will be a loosing battle. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea.... All I'm saying is that the issue hinges on education. If we knew more about our neighbor, if we knew more about the tools, the issue would diminish. I think it's a wonderful idea to take responsibility for one's actions and education. And right there is where it shouldn't be the responsibility of the government to create this education.

This country is built on Freedom, and it's constantly being taken away because people aren't willing to bear the responsibility that comes with it. By allowing concealed carry to go on as it has been, it's simply shifting the citizen's responsibility onto the shoulder of the government.

Sorry for the long response, but many people have critiques of America and specific issues. I can tell you that America might suck, but it sucks the least. I can also say with confidence that although many of you probably chanted the Pledge of Allegiance in school, I was sworn into this country as a citizen. To become a citizen I had to learn all kinds of things. I take honor quite seriously, and I stood in front of that flag and with my heart swore to protect the United States of American from all enemies within and without (silly vernacular, I know.) I learned many things I learned later, many Americans don't know. I'm not saying I'm more qualified to be an American, oh heaven's no! I'm saying that while becoming a citizen of this great country, I discovered how few people know what it means to be an American.

What does it mean to be an American? Take responsibility for your Freedoms. Carry a damn gun in public under open carry and politely and patiently educate those who give you grief. Only we can take America to newer and greater heights. The lawmakers won't. Big business won't. This is just one issue among many we need to take responsibility for. We must enact the change if there is to be any.

[Swift]

Go to Texas kids. Open Carry is nothing new down there. You don't see their crime rates being particularly high do you? I always get the mental image of some punk that see's a 50 year old man in a cowboy hat, snakeskin boots and wearing a .44 magnum around his waist is gonna think twice about fucking with him.

As someone else said, a carry society is a polite society. I'd like to see this go through. I don't think it will have much opposition in the house to be honest. Just means these gang banger fuck heads will start thinking twice before they decide to mug someone.

[FZRguy]

I don’t feel the need to be armed on a daily basis. If I ever do, the lack of a permit sure won’t stop me. Thinking about taking the class just for the info, but doubtful I’d go to the trouble to apply for a permit.

[Sarge]

I can get a permit without a class, and I plan on doing so as soon as I get home. All I have to do is the paperwork, and the fingerprinting is free as well. ;)

[wulf]

FZRGuy, if you want a class just for the info let me know.

As far as training, there is absolutely no standardization on the current training requirements. The classes range from piss poor to excellent. How do I know? I'm a certified instructor, the shit that meets the minimum requirements is just useless taxation, not training.

[Kim-n-Dean]

FZRGuy, if you want a class just for the info let me know.

As far as training, there is absolutely no standardization on the current training requirements. The classes range from piss poor to excellent. How do I know? I'm a certified instructor, the shit that meets the minimum requirements is just useless taxation, not training.The requirements in Colorado are definitely useless, but is that just a state thing? Nevada requires that you qualify for each semi-auto that you want to carry and you only have to qualify for one revolver and can carry any revolver. Is that a better system? I would think so, but I sure am glad that I didn't have to go through that!!!!!!!!!

Shameless plug. This is my wife's brother, Roger. Do some research, he's getting pretty famous for his techniques. I love this phrase...

Gunfights typically happen in low light, with both participants moving, and when you are behind in the reactionary curve.

...behind in the reactionary curve. I just love that!!!

I will apologize in advance that he uses "Bodies" as the soundtrack on the home page video...

http://www.fightfocusedconcepts.com/

[modette99]

..

[Kim-n-Dean]

Well... that's why we practice!:roll:

[Sarge]

Anybody want to get together and go shooting sometime in the next 30 days? Anywhere is good, preferably somewhere outside so we can shoot vegetables.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Anybody want to get together and go shooting sometime in the next 30 days? Anywhere is good, preferably somewhere outside so we can shoot vegetables.
We were thinking about Monday (tomorrow). I have some electronics that need punishing!!

[Sarge]

Damn, won't be home until Tuesday and then I have the rest of the week off.

[Kim-n-Dean]

I now have a meeting at noon on Monday. Tuesday or anytime after...

[Sarge]

I'd have to do later than that, maybe the weekend. Anybody else interested?

[Wrider]

I'm up for it. I need to go punish my shoulder a bit.
.40, 30-30, .270, and 12 gauge is what I can bring to the table/range.

[FZRguy]

Interested.....the indoor range is not near the fun.

[Devaclis]

A good old fashioned CSC "My opinion is the correct one and you are a douche bag" thread.

Welcome home. It feels sooo good.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Interested.....the indoor range is not near the fun.I know that I won't go indoors. Lungs hurt for days after those places!!

[ghostrider_9]

Anybody want to get together and go shooting sometime in the next 30 days? Anywhere is good, preferably somewhere outside so we can shoot vegetables.

That sounds like a good time. Let me know if you put something together.


A good old fashioned CSC "My opinion is the correct one and you are a douche bag" thread.

Welcome home. It feels sooo good.

Hey! I have not called anyone a douche bag in at least 25 -30 minutes . . . and we ALL know that my opinion is the only one that matters. Now quit goofing off and get back to work . . . douche bag!

:hibye: (and welcome back)

[cptschlongenheimer]

A good old fashioned CSC "My opinion is the correct one and you are a douche bag" thread.

Welcome home. It feels sooo good.

So...... Did ya miss us?

[puckstr]

A good old fashioned CSC "My opinion is the correct one and you are a douche bag" thread.

Welcome home. It feels sooo good.

Don't forget there will always be some "butt-hurt" in there somewhere.

[~Barn~]

Great thread. Will read again.

[rforsythe]

...and when you are behind in the reactionary curve.

That describes most men, gun or not. :shock:

[TinkerinWstuff]

Don't forget there will always be some "butt-hurt" in there somewhere.

http://i884.photobucket.com/albums/ac47/tinkerinWstuff/Misc/butthurt_report_form.jpg

[cptschlongenheimer]

:pointlaugh:

[Vance]

I've refrained from voicing my rather Shakespearean-length opinion on this debate...

I just wanted to throw in that this just passed the House... now going to Senate.

[wulf]

The requirements in Colorado are definitely useless, but is that just a state thing? Nevada requires that you qualify for each semi-auto that you want to carry and you only have to qualify for one revolver and can carry any revolver. Is that a better system? I would think so, but I sure am glad that I didn't have to go through that!!!!!!!!!

Shameless plug. This is my wife's brother, Roger. Do some research, he's getting pretty famous for his techniques. I love this phrase...

Gunfights typically happen in low light, with both participants moving, and when you are behind in the reactionary curve.

...behind in the reactionary curve. I just love that!!!

I will apologize in advance that he uses "Bodies" as the soundtrack on the home page video...

http://www.fightfocusedconcepts.com/Yes requirements to carry are state by state. Though there's a nationwide reciprocity bill in the federal senate right now.

As for Roger, I don't know the guy and my comments aren't directed at him. He is however associated with suarez international and they are grade A Douche bags as far as I'm concerned.

Their instructors show up drunk from the night before and 2 hours late. They shoot when students are on lunch break and don't have hearing protection on, and fail to warn everyone the range is hot. They screwed the local host of their classes out of the range fee (about $500). The owner embezzled money from disability and was charged. He pled down to below a felony (just google gabe suarez). Oh, and he advocates shooting ANYONE if you have what he deems he needs in a SHTF situation.

Yup, they're pretty famous.

If your brother in law wants any respect from me he'd disassociate with suarez and do his own thing.

The phrase you like so much as far as I know is a paraphrased quote from Ayoob circa the mid 80's

[Kim-n-Dean]

Yes requirements to carry are state by state. Though there's a nationwide reciprocity bill in the federal senate right now.

As for Roger, I don't know the guy and my comments aren't directed at him. He is however associated with suarez international and they are grade A Douche bags as far as I'm concerned.

Their instructors show up drunk from the night before and 2 hours late. They shoot when students are on lunch break and don't have hearing protection on, and fail to warn everyone the range is hot. They screwed the local host of their classes out of the range fee (about $500). The owner embezzled money from disability and was charged. He pled down to below a felony (just google gabe suarez). Oh, and he advocates shooting ANYONE if you have what he deems he needs in a SHTF situation.

Yup, they're pretty famous.

If your brother in law wants any respect from me he'd disassociate with suarez and do his own thing.

The phrase you like so much as far as I know is a paraphrased quote from Ayoob circa the mid 80'sDayum!!!! They sound pretty fucked up!! I'll definitely ask him about this. I wonder if he'll squirm or sound like a politician and talk in circles. One thing I know for sure is that Roger really is world class. I'm extremely surprised he would associate with those types.

[wulf]

Dayum!!!! They sound pretty fucked up!! I'll definitely ask him about this. I wonder if he'll squirm or sound like a politician and talk in circles. One thing I know for sure is that Roger really is world class. I'm extremely surprised he would associate with those types.
I've worked some shit jobs for shitbags because I needed the best paycheck I could get....

I've got plenty bad to say about suarez that was just the short version.

[Vance]

Again, refraining from giving opinion, I thought you all would like to see some of the updates on this:

3/10/2011 - Passed to Senate - Assigned to State, Veterans & Military Affairs
No word on when debate or vote is due on the bill.

[THoward]

Normally when a bill is sent to a committee that has nothing to do with the subject matter it will be killed. IMO should have been sent to Senate Judiciary....I expect it to die.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Again, refraining from giving opinion,

would be happy to force my opinion on you if needed....



Normally when a bill is sent to a committee that has nothing to do with the subject matter it will be killed. IMO should have been sent to Senate Judiciary....I expect it to die.

This was just signed into law in Wyoming last week. I wouldn't expect it to pass with Hickinpooper :poo: at the helm anyway.

[Vance]

would be happy to force my opinion on you if needed....




This was just signed into law in Wyoming last week. I wouldn't expect it to pass with Hickinpooper :poo: at the helm anyway.
I've never needed anyone to "give" me an opinion - I am just fine formulating my own. This is just a very sensitive topic for me on a number of different levels - and I don't think anyone on the forum wants a return of one of my Shakespearean length diatribes. I've been a good boy and not done so in a couple of years now. Thought my record for giving up Catholicism for lent when I was 10 is still my longest "hold to" record and the one I am most dedicated to - so the 'no diatribe' commitment could fold any time!

ANYWAY... Rumor has it from a few friends I still have actually in politics / on the local hill -The Hickster, despite his normal anti-gun agenda he's so clearly displayed in Denver, he would sign this into law because the pressure is too high to get revenue into Colorado's coffers as quickly as possible and reduce the deficit - and without a doubt, no matter which side of the fence you are on this topic,... it would start flying through a TON of revenue for the state because of the flood of people who have wanted a CCW but not want to jump through hoops to get one / have to register with the county / whatever other reason - they would come out of the woodwork and be paying their fees and even potentially raising retails sales of new handguns (tax revenue and yes "small business owner friendly" - good political points for The Hickster with both parties this one).

[~Barn~]

Chauffeurs?

Methinks you meant coffers. :think:

[TinkerinWstuff]

I'd be interested how the money balances out when you compare the fees the counties currently charge. I haven't wrapped my head around how this is a money maker for the state.

I will say, regardless of the gun issue, Hickenwhatever is probably a lot better for the state than the last guy.

[TFOGGuys]

I'd be interested how the money balances out when you compare the fees the counties currently charge. I haven't wrapped my head around how this is a money maker for the state.

I will say, regardless of the gun issue, Hickenwhatever is probably a lot better for the state than the last guy.

I wouldn't say that. Mr. Hickenlooper is a signatory founding member of Bloomberg's MAIG (http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/home/home.shtml) .

[Vance]

Chauffeurs?

Methinks you meant coffers. :think:

Noted, corrected... wasn't sure what I was thinking there.

[TransNone13]

Eagerly anticipating results! I never would have had to jump through hoops, just get printed and pay the fee (active military). But this would be even better!

[Vance]

3/22/2011 --- Postpone Indefinitely in Committee. The bill is effectively dead for the time being. I'm going to see if I can find out anything as to what the debate was that caused it to be tabled - but some of you on the RMGO and such might be able to find out quicker than I.

[rforsythe]

3/22/2011 --- Postpone Indefinitely in Committee. The bill is effectively dead for the time being. I'm going to see if I can find out anything as to what the debate was that caused it to be tabled - but some of you on the RMGO and such might be able to find out quicker than I.

Bills frequently get assigned to this committee when people want them to die silently. As soon as it got directed there it was DOA, but still worth the fight IMO.

[puckstr]

And.... It is DEAD


Constitutional Carry Dead in Colorado
Senate Dems kill landmark pro-gun legislation

Though not a surprise, yesterday the Senate State Affairs Committee voted 3-2 to kill HB1205, RMGO's Constitutional Carry bill, which was carried by St. Rep. Chris Holbert and St. Sen. Greg Brophy.

The legislation would have made Colorado a “permit optional” state for concealed carry, joining Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, and Wyoming.

Despite overwhelming testimony that states with similar laws did not, in fact, see an increase in violence, Democrat Senators in the State Affairs Committee (Sens. Rollie Heath, Betty Boyd, and Bob Bacon) voted against the bill while GOP Sens. Kevin Grantham and Bill Cadman voted for the legislation.
http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/cimages/d9b0764a441755fae84a0de3b2016bbd/DWBhb205youtubesmall.jpg (http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/ct/5610318:8354975072:m:1:211480104:7641F5F7268B05953 7538A4ADED2DEA2)State Senator Greg Brophy (front) and RMGO Executive Director Dudley Brown testify in favor of HB1205 on March 23, 2011. Click the image to watch the testimony.

Senator Greg Brophy told committee members that HB1205 would simply level the playing field for law-abiding citizen, but criminals really don’t care what the law says – and don’t seek permits in the first place.

RMGO Executive Director Dudley Brown said that domestic violence prevention groups should support Constitutional Carry rather than oppose it, since the permit process itself is intimidating to many females who don’t want to be on lists and don’t normally think of themselves as gun advocates but might need the means to self defense in volatile situations.

“Why should a woman who wants to defend herself from a stalker or violent ex-boyfriend be forced to acquire an expensive permit, just for the permission to protect herself?” said Brown.

Yuma County Sheriff Chad Day, testifying on behalf of himself and Weld County Sheriff John Cooke, said the Second Amendment is a right. “Causing people to jump through government hoops turns that right into a mere privilege.” Sheriff Day cited numerous statistics to show that more citizens carrying concealed is a good thing for public safety.
Of course, Sheriff Day wasn’t the only law enforcement to speak on the bill. Boulder County Sheriff Joe Pelle (representing “Republican-In-Name-Only” Arapahoe Sheriff Grayson Robinson and Adams County Sheriff Doug Darr) opposed the bill.
Lobbyist Anne Marie Jensen, who represented the Colorado Association of Chiefs of Police but also normally works for Tom Mauser’s “Colorado Ceasefire Capitol Fund”, said “Sen. Brophy believes more guns will make citizens safer. Unfortunately, the Chiefs don’t agree.”

Those advocating for Constitutional Carry should take heart: it took 9 years to pass a “Shall Issue” law in Colorado, and this is a long-term fight. Just remember these votes in the 2012 elections.

RMGO has fought for Constitutional Carry (often called Vermont) since the founding of the group. And as the famous movie line goes, We’ll be back.

[TinkerinWstuff]

“Why should a woman who wants to defend herself from a stalker or violent ex-boyfriend be forced to acquire an expensive permit, just for the permission to protect herself?” said Brown.


Isn't that what I said early in this thread arguing with Dean?

Dude stole my line dammit.

[salsashark]

Is anyone even the least bit surprised by this decision?

[puckstr]

Isn't that what I said early in this thread arguing with Dean?

Dude stole my line dammit.


It has never been about OUR safety. It is about the state not wanting to give up the revenue from the CCW permits. :(

[dirkterrell]

Is anyone even the least bit surprised by this decision?

Not the least. And I'm sure Hickenlooper would have never signed it anyway.

[TinkerinWstuff]

It's best to use your resources to fight battles you can win.

Didn't seem like the right timing to me and best to let it die quietly now than get defeated in a big public media spotlight later. (i.e. Hickenlooper or open floor vote)