Delrin parts work?

[Richard]

Does anyone around here, preferably colorado springs, do any delrin work?
There was a guy in OKC that would make frame sliders with the same design as lockhart phillips and sell them for half the cost.
I have a delrin puck with a basic design, I was wondering if someone could make?
Thanks for looking and any information.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Any decent machine shop should be able to make them, delrin's easy to machine. HOWEVER, you'll most likely end up paying more, if not a LOT more because they're not going to want to make one-off's for you.

[Richard]

yea i did know if anyone on here just made 'em. i know there's a guy in golden, colorado that has a ebay store. he makes a bunch of different sliders. but i'm not sure if he's on here.

[brennahm]

Epic has a local guy who makes all their sliders (axles, pegs, etc.). Could probably contact them for a lead...

[Richard]

thanks i'll check them out.

[PhL0aTeR]

u find anything on this? I'm actually looking for some delrin drops from their rod stock for a project im working on. There is some on ebay, but i gotta wait 4 days for the auction to end so i can snipe it. id rather just go dig through a bin and pay by the lb locally.

[Richard]

no man i couldnt find anything. i guess nobody in the springs does any delrin work? maybe in denver you might have better luck?

[PhL0aTeR]

did you call peak plastics in the springs? I just called em, realized it was the weekend, but left a message with them to call me back if they worked with it and had any drops i could scavenge. I'll post up when i find something, but ill resume my search on monday

[Richard]

no i havent. after talking to cnc shops and them not wanting to do it or wanting a billion doll hairs. i just decided to buy from my cage manufacturer.

[PhL0aTeR]

ahhhh, yeah my project takes a bit less special equipment, I can probably work the delrin with my table saw and drill for what i need it for. hopefully these guys have a bin of stuff i can pick through that will suit what i need.

[Richard]

yea man. mine needs to be cut just like a frame slider.
i guess i could cut it with a saw and make it a square slider :drink:
looks like a good place to start. they didnt come up on the interwebs when i was searching.
i might have to give them a call next week.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

no i havent. after talking to cnc shops and them not wanting to do it or wanting a billion doll hairs. i just decided to buy from my cage manufacturer.
As I said, Delrin is easy to machine. they don't want to do it because they're busy and don't want to do a one-off, and if they do, they're gonna charge you for it. Busy machine shops are going to charge the big $$ for single parts if they do it at all, it's just the way business works.

[Richard]

yea i was trying to do a bunch for all my friends like 20 sets or so. but i would need to do 50 sets just to get the price to be equal to what sick innovations wants for 1 set.

[PhL0aTeR]

seems like if you knew CAD, you could just give a place like this http://www.plastic-creationsltd.com/materials.html the info and let them crank out a few.

just outta curiosity and to stay on topic, (lol) do u have a pic of what u were trying to do?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

yea i was trying to do a bunch for all my friends like 20 sets or so. but i would need to do 50 sets just to get the price to be equal to what sick innovations wants for 1 set.
That's the beauty of mass production. Typically, the cylindrical delrin (or whatever material) frame slider "pucks" are made on a screw machine, which can spit out parts at a very high rate of speed, and except for the initial material loading of a long rod of whateve, it's all CNC automatic. and some machines even have automatic loading. To do what you wanted done requires a guy to take your drawing (I'm sure you don't have a viable CAD model for them), program it, then it's a lot of manual operation even on a CNC lathe. THAT'S why it'll cost you big $$. Best to just buy something mass-produced unless you REALLY think you can do a beter job designing it (something unique or more functional - not likely).

[Richard]

seems like if you knew CAD, you could just give a place like this http://www.plastic-creationsltd.com/materials.html the info and let them crank out a few.

just outta curiosity and to stay on topic, (lol) do u have a pic of what u were trying to do?
this what i'm looking for.
http://shop.brestunt.com/images/rep_articles/00032/moyennes/TYTAMP.jpg

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

this what i'm looking for.
http://shop.brestunt.com/images/rep_articles/00032/moyennes/TYTAMP.jpg
The slots require extra programming, and are an extra setup and operation (NC mill), especially if there are 2 180deg apart (read: a lot more money for all this). Why are they needed? I'd delete them if not 100% needed. Re-evaluate their need, but I'm 99.99999% sure they're not really needed.

[Richard]

The slots require extra programming, and are an extra setup and operation (NC mill), especially if there are 2 180deg apart (read: a lot more money for all this). Why are they needed? I'd delete them if not 100% needed. Re-evaluate their need, but I'm 99.99999% sure they're not really needed.
i can do the slots myself i just need the puck to fit in the cage. slots are to bolt on the cage.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

i can do the slots myself i just need the puck to fit in the cage. its to slide the puck into the cage and bolt in.

Why the slots? Still cheaper to buy them. Rule of thumb: ALWAYS design around standard, easily available parts. No need to re-invent the wheel.

[Richard]

these are just some generic pics of what i'm looking for.
http://store.58cycle.com/v/vspfiles/photos/fi%20replace%20fs%20puck-2T.jpg
http://images.motorcycle-superstore.com/ProductImages/300/0000_Freestyle_Ingenuity_Extended_Frame_Silder.jpg
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/m/mHjxCLHp-C6E5BIBSmErllw/140.jpg

[Richard]

the slots are for impact. when the puck hits the ground the slider and spring can take the impact.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

the slots are for impact. when the puck hits the ground the slider and spring can take the impact.
Looks way too complicated for just being a slider. I don't see the need for a spring at all. I can see what it's trying to do, but I'd say it's unneccessary.

[Richard]

i would agree with you if this didnt happen to me.
i used to have the cage with the springs and recently sold it to get a more affordable cage without springs.
last month i went down to dallas for an event. On the first day i dropped my bike and broke off a frame motor mount and cracked the cylider head.
would the springed sliders have helped? i'm not sure. but it may have not cracked the head?

[PhL0aTeR]

hmmmmmph.... and i just wanna mount my pelican cases. lol

hell, spring for a lathe?

[Richard]

heres my frame and it cracked my head on the back by the cam chain tentioner and front by the header.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd1/rickG1K/100_3541.jpg

[Richard]

heres a little clip of where spring pucks will help with saving my bike.
right at the beginning is more or less what happened to my bike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9oeeiRAB-4

[PhL0aTeR]

so a spring loaded frame slider is basically absorbs the shock so your frame doesnt have to?

[Richard]

thats the idea.
cages now are starting to be built too strong.
now they just move to the weakest point.
which is now the frame and motor.

[PhL0aTeR]

thats the idea.
cages now are starting to be built too strong.
now they just move to the weakest point.
which is now the frame and motor.

thats kinda what i was thinking... im building my pannier racks with a break point so if i have a tip-over, that point breaks, of which i will have an extra somewhere easily repaired on the road.

[Zach929rr]

There is a guy from springs I rode with that said he had access to delrin and worked at a mahine shop. Matthewb2204 or some shit.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

heres my frame and it cracked my head on the back by the cam chain tentioner and front by the header.
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd1/rickG1K/100_3541.jpg

From the pic I can tell you it was the cheap POS cage that broke your frame. See the mark made by the contact of the cage ONLY at the top of the engine mount on the frame? The cage did not fit correctly, meaning you had to overtorque the bolt to try and "bend" the cage and/or bolt to try and have the cage mount flush but still had a gap. This places tremendous stress on the bolt, frame, and engine. When you fell over, it went snap. It's not neccessarily that the cage is "too strong", it's just that it was a total POS and didn't fit right.

[Richard]

From the pic I can tell you it was the cheap POS cage that broke your frame. See the mark made by the contact of the cage ONLY at the top of the engine mount on the frame? The cage did not fit correctly, meaning you had to overtorque the bolt to try and "bend" the cage and/or bolt to try and have the cage mount flush but still had a gap. This places tremendous stress on the bolt, frame, and engine. When you fell over, it went snap. It's not neccessarily that the cage is "too strong", it's just that it was a total POS and didn't fit right.
that mark is from my old cage. thats why i changed to this one.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

that mark is from my old cage. thats why i changed to this one.
Did the old one contact only at the top where the mark is, and have a gap on the bottom? If so, you could have severely weakened the bracket by torqueing the bolt down (creating a small crack). Castings tend to fracture like that. I've seen a few crashed bikes but never saw that kind of damage from a frame slider before. Could a spring-loaded puck have prevented this? That's too hard to say. Did the old cage sustain a hit? If so, that could be it right there.

[Cap'n Crunch]

I'm thinking for something as basic as those frame sliders, it may be easier to pick up a cheap (or used) manual lathe and just manually make them yourself. Like CycleMonkey said, using a CNC machine is great for large production runs or complex parts that need to be exact, but there is a lot of work that goes with it. If you wanted to make these on a CNC mill, you would need to draw the part up in a CAD program, then take the CAD file and bring it into a CAM program and spend a couple of hours setting up all the cuts. Then, from there you would need to export the G code from the CAM program and import it into CNC mill and spend some time getting the machine set up and zeroed out (several times). This is why the shops want to charge you a large amount of money, because there is a fair amount of work that needs to be done before the CNC mill is even started. On the other hand, if you manually ground these parts out on a lathe, you would probably be able to knock a couple of these out in an hour or two since they are basic round shapes. I don't have my own CNC machine (or lathe), but I would kill to get one in my garage one of these days...

[Richard]

Did the old one contact only at the top where the mark is, and have a gap on the bottom? If so, you could have severely weakened the bracket by torqueing the bolt down (creating a small crack). Castings tend to fracture like that. I've seen a few crashed bikes but never saw that kind of damage from a frame slider before. Could a spring-loaded puck have prevented this? That's too hard to say. Did the old cage sustain a hit? If so, that could be it right there.

yes, the old cage did hit there. it didnt have a spacer or cross bar like this new cage does. as in the pic, you can see where the spacer keeps the bracket off of the frame. the old cage would always hit there on impact. and for the cross bar, it keeps the cage from being bent up or down. my old cage didnt have one. so on impact, it would bend it up or down. causing the impression thats was left. and for cracks, i inspect my frame weekly. cracked frames are a big problem in the stunt community. not saying that something else couldn't have weakend that spot, but there weren't any cracks before i went out of town.


I'm thinking for something as basic as those frame sliders, it may be easier to pick up a cheap (or used) manual lathe and just manually make them yourself. Like CycleMonkey said, using a CNC machine is great for large production runs or complex parts that need to be exact, but there is a lot of work that goes with it. If you wanted to make these on a CNC mill, you would need to draw the part up in a CAD program, then take the CAD file and bring it into a CAM program and spend a couple of hours setting up all the cuts. Then, from there you would need to export the G code from the CAM program and import it into CNC mill and spend some time getting the machine set up and zeroed out (several times). This is why the shops want to charge you a large amount of money, because there is a fair amount of work that needs to be done before the CNC mill is even started. On the other hand, if you manually ground these parts out on a lathe, you would probably be able to knock a couple of these out in an hour or two since they are basic round shapes. I don't have my own CNC machine (or lathe), but I would kill to get one in my garage one of these days...

yea man, i was just trying to see if anyone here locally did any of this in there spare time. like i was saying before there was a guy in OKC on a local forum that would make frame sliders for around 20 bucks that look just like most other sliders. he had his own cnc machine and would do it on his spare time. its really not too outrageous of a price for my sliders. $30 a set, from sick innovations. i was just trying to save a few bucks and get it done locally.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

yes, the old cage did hit there. it didnt have a spacer or cross bar like this new cage does. as in the pic, you can see where the spacer keeps the bracket off of the frame. the old cage would always hit there on impact. and for the cross bar, it keeps the cage from being bent up or down. my old cage didnt have one. so on impact, it would bend it up or down. causing the impression thats was left. and for cracks, i inspect my frame weekly. cracked frames are a big problem in the stunt community. not saying that something else couldn't have weakend that spot, but there weren't any cracks before i went out of town.
Not that you were able to see. Castings are very susceptable to fracture like that. It may have been a hairline crack, just enough to weaken it.

yea man, i was just trying to see if anyone here locally did any of this in there spare time. like i was saying before there was a guy in OKC on a local forum that would make frame sliders for around 20 bucks that look just like most other sliders. he had his own cnc machine and would do it on his spare time. its really not too outrageous of a price for my sliders. $30 a set, from sick innovations. i was just trying to save a few bucks and get it done locally.
I think, as you found, trying to do it yourself as a "one-off" via a machine shop vs. mass production, well, you'll never be able to compete in $$.


...

[Richard]

Not that you were able to see. Castings are very susceptable to fracture like that. It may have been a hairline crack, just enough to weaken it.
yea, maybe it was just one that i may have missed. but, i kind of pride myself in crack finding. just cause thats what i used to do, with aircraft parts and equipment. hopfully there aren't a bunch of planes out flyin around with faulty equipment. :dunno:

[PhL0aTeR]

i kind of pride myself in crack finding.

hey, me too! 8)

FWIW, theres a guy on ADV who responded to my post on the subject, seems like he would be willing to crank something out, here is the thread, check out post #11

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=705242