Accident Ticket - Go To Court or Pay Up?

[jmack]

I was driving down to Salida last weekend and ended up in an accident going SB on hwy 285. I crested a hill, visibility went pretty suddenly from good to ~100ft, and I clipped the rear of a CR-V that was unexpectedly stopped in the road due to a jackknifed semi. I feel like an ass for running into someone from behind, because as a rider I know you have to anticipate the unexpected and adjust to conditions. But at the same time, I was caught off guard a bit by the sudden change in conditions, and still can't say exactly what I would have done differently.

Anyway, I got a ticket for "following too close", which I think is inaccurate, but the officer said he was being generous in not giving me a "reckless driving" because it's a lesser fine. But I have the ticket on my desk now and I'm debating whether to pay the fine by mail and cut the number of points in half, or go to the court date to see if there's any way to keep it from going on my record. I'm most concerned about a possible insurance hike, the ticket itself isn't that bad.

Anybody have any experience contesting a ticket here in CO, particularly an accident ticket? Is it worth going to the court date and asking for leniency, or should I just pay up?

[CaneZach]

I was driving down to Salida last weekend and ended up in an accident going SB on hwy 285. I crested a hill, visibility went pretty suddenly from good to ~100ft, and I clipped the rear of a CR-V that was unexpectedly stopped in the road due to a jackknifed semi. I feel like an ass for running into someone from behind, because as a rider I know you have to anticipate the unexpected and adjust to conditions. But at the same time, I was caught off guard a bit by the sudden change in conditions, and still can't say exactly what I would have done differently.

Anyway, I got a ticket for "following too close", which I think is inaccurate, but the officer said he was being generous in not giving me a "reckless driving" because it's a lesser fine. But I have the ticket on my desk now and I'm debating whether to pay the fine by mail and cut the number of points in half, or go to the court date to see if there's any way to keep it from going on my record. I'm most concerned about a possible insurance hike, the ticket itself isn't that bad.

Anybody have any experience contesting a ticket here in CO, particularly an accident ticket? Is it worth going to the court date and asking for leniency, or should I just pay up?

Did you maintain a reasonable and prudent following distance from the vehicle ahead of you with regards to their speed and road conditions? If not, you followed too closely.

Also, I'm sure you meant Careless Driving, not Reckless Driving.

[jmack]

Did you maintain a reasonable and prudent following distance from the vehicle ahead of you with regards to their speed and road conditions? If not, you followed too closely.

Also, I'm sure you meant Careless Driving, not Reckless Driving.

I was probably 200yds back from him when he crested the hill and I lost sight of him. At the time, it was plenty of distance. Of course at the time of the accident I was going too quickly for conditions, because visibility had diminished to less than my stopping distance. I was slowing down to bring my speed in check, but didn't think there was any urgency.

And yes, I guess I meant careless driving.

[EVO8]

I'd just pay the fine and get over it. It will cost you more fighting it.

[Vellos]

Nobody anticipates causing an accident, but it happens and you did hit someone. Most of the time going over blind hills or around turns faster than you could stop for an emergency is fine. You got unlucky, pay and move on.

[tecknojoe]

I don't think there's much to win here. Almost all rear end cases are the crashers fault. it sucks but I think u should pay and move on

[stitch]

Word to the wise, never ever, admit your guilt to the judge. The judge is now required to sentence you within the guidelines of the law.

[MetaLord 9]

Word to the wise, never ever, admit your guilt to the judge.

Or on a public Internet forum for that matter...

[jmack]

Or on a public Internet forum for that matter...

Heh. Point taken. Looks like the consensus is to pay it anyway.

[D_Sp8s]

Sounds like a "Pay and move on" case to me too. But.....

Six months or so after I got my first bike (I was 18 yrs old). I was rounding a turn, went wide and ended up going down. In the end I got a careless driving ticket. I went to court and told the guy who makes the plea bargains (I don't think that's the right term but a couple of rum & cokes are telling me I won't be able to think of the right one) my story. I told him about the high winds, the gravel, and other less than ideal conditions. He ended up saying, "I understand. Sometimes these things just happen." He completely dropped all charges on the ticket and let me go home with zero fines or penalties.


That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Think]

Word to the wise, never ever, admit your guilt to the judge. The judge is now required to sentence you within the guidelines of the law.
This has made me curious. What are you supposed to say then?

[CaneZach]

This has made me curious. What are you supposed to say then?

I was wondering the same thing. There are only two ways to plead; guilty or not guilty. If you plead not guilty and are found guilty in court, the judge will still sentence you within the guidelines of the the law. That's what judges do! Maybe he misspoke?

[ThorsTwin]

I'd go to court. At some point a plea bargain may or may not be offered to you. If not, then you're only out a drive and some time. In my experience with tickets, I've always talked to a D.A. and have ALWAYS had the charges amended or modified to lesser charges. The fine will almost always remain the same, so be prepared for that.

[stitch]

This has made me curious. What are you supposed to say then?

What I mean by that is if you are looking to not plead guilty but throw yourself on the mercy of the court saying you are guilty makes you guilty. There is no "mercy of the court". You are either guilty or not guilty. If you know you are guilty say so and ask for what you would appreciate the judge doing.

Don't say things like you are guilty but with an explanation or not guilty but don't have a defense. If you are not guilty fight it, ask for supporting evidence from the officer, check the calibration info for the device used, etc.

[stitch]

The state I moved from had a guy we called the hanging judge. If you came in to court to fight or had a lame excuse for your violation, he would revoke your license for as much as 6 months. I know a guy who went in to "Throw himself on the mercy of the court" and got a year suspension of his license. Course he rode it like he stole it.

[Vellos]

Except if he's not guilty then how did a CRV get hit? There's really no easy way to get out of running into a car that was stopped. Speed was too fast for the blind hill... he's getting a pretty good deal with the ticket that was given.

[jmack]

If you know you are guilty say so and ask for what you would appreciate the judge doing.

I guess this is more what I had in mind. I really was thinking of a plea bargain with the D.A. for a way to keep the incident off my record.

[TransNone13]

I was wondering the same thing. There are only two ways to plead; guilty or not guilty. If you plead not guilty and are found guilty in court, the judge will still sentence you within the guidelines of the the law. That's what judges do! Maybe he misspoke?

Can't you submit a plea of no-contest?

[CaneZach]

Can't you submit a plea of no-contest?

I have no idea if you can plead "no contest", "nolo contendere", or anything of the sort here in Colorado. Regardless, it's still basically a guilty plea so you would be treated as if you're guilty, so it wouldn't be any different than pleading guilty.

OP, if you go to court, you may be able to get the original charge knocked down to a defective vehicle charge, but it will still be a 2-pt charge just like if you had mailed it in. Your insurance is already going to go up because you're the at-fault driver in a crash, so worrying about that is a moot point unless you have State Farm's "accident forgiveness".

The flip side is you may get convicted and get full points, full fine, etc. I'm assuming it was a trooper who wrote you the ticket. If so, he WILL be in court. Thanks to the Denver Post doing a stupid "investigative reporting" piece on the CSP's appearance rate in traffic court, EVERY trooper goes to court now. The Denver Post fucked up a good thing for some people.

[Sarge]

Except if he's not guilty then how did a CRV get hit? There's really no easy way to get out of running into a car that was stopped. Speed was too fast for the blind hill... he's getting a pretty good deal with the ticket that was given.

He was guilty of causing the accident, there's no argument there. The question is whether or not he was guilty of "following too close." I'll admit, to me it sounds like yes, but at the same time there are always instances in which doing absolutely the right thing while driving can still lead to an accident. Shit happens.

I once got a speeding ticket for 5 MPH over. It was total BS and the ticketing Officer was harrassing me. Said he got me on radar, but then didn't put that down on the ticket, threatened to arrest me because I was upset, blah blah blah. (I was driving through a bad neighborhood in a POS car, he was absolutely profiling.) He ended up searching my car, harrassing my gf, and just generally being a total prick. Best he could come up with was a 5 MPH ticket.

I took that to court and the Judge said "3 options, pay the fine, take the points, pay the fine DON'T take the points, or plead Not Guilty, go to court, likely pay the fine and take the points."

I stuck my ground and plead Not Guilty. They sent me down the hall to speak with an Assistant DA, who offered to make the fine $5 plus no points. I stuck my ground and said "Not Guilty, I'm taking this A*hole to court" (In so many words ;)) And the ADA finally completely dismissed the ticket "In the interest of Justice."

*knock on wood* To this point I have zero tickets or accidents on my record. ;)

[50sGrl]

I went to court in Boulder County to contest my accident ticket, and it worked out well for me. But there was no other party involved. And I still had to pay court costs, a victim assistance fee and had to sign a restitution agreement (if anybody came forward claiming any damages).

In your situation, I think I would pay the fine and take the reduced points.

[modette99]

Or on a public Internet forum for that matter...

Because a Judge or Cop is monitoring this form and can put a username to a real face *rolls my eyes*

I was always taught a ticket is suppose to teach you a lesson...not sure it taught the OP a lesson here and really is not warranted...but the Police feel someone needs a ticket in an accident...sometimes shit happens and its called "living life". A ticket will not fix anything and is mainly there to get some money for the cop responding to an accident. I also love how in CO police throw around the 'careless' charge way to easy....that there is suppose to be used to teach you a real lesson...glad the cop was not a power trippin one that would write you for everything. (glad he had some common sense)

As far as insurance it does not matter if the cop said he was not at fault, insurance companies assign blame themselves and still could say you are guilty when the cop said you were not.

Its also always worth calling the DA, worst case they say NOPE...best case they say okay and lower the charge. Oh and if you go to court and not pay in the mail you are open to the full points because its past the date...asked a lawyer about that once, its all about making you pay and move on.

[MetaLord 9]

Because a Judge or Cop is monitoring this form and can put a username to a real face *rolls my eyes*
And that's exactly what I said too... :rolleyes:
We have at least a few police officers on the site, I wouldn't think it that hard. Aside from that point, it's a generally good idea to remember that this is a public internet forum, so the more info you post, the easier it is to identify you, that's all.

[Dietrich_R1]

I Have a Dream...

That CO would create a ticket that assessed a fine, but no ties to insurance companies.

Officer had to show up = "usage tax", but why should a third party (insurance companies) have to get paid also???

[modette99]

I Have a Dream...

That CO would create a ticket that assessed a fine, but no ties to insurance companies.

Officer had to show up = "usage tax", but why should a third party (insurance companies) have to get paid also???

That is simple, because the insurance companies have big pockets and have lobbyist that fight for them to do certain things. Just like Unions have so many rights (I always say go on strike fire the whole lot but for some warped reason you as a company can not do that it you are unionized). Money talks...its why people with lots of money and I mean multi million dollars tend to get off pretty easy, they can pay some crazy fine amount and move on and thats all most jurisdictions want.

I don't believe tickets should be able to be reported to insurance companies either.

[Bashed]

A ticket will not fix anything and is mainly there to get some money for the cop responding to an accident.

As far as insurance it does not matter if the cop said he was not at fault, insurance companies assign blame themselves and still could say you are guilty when the cop said you were not.


The first statement means what? Police get paid by the accident, per ticket, a kickback??? WTF :bs:

Second, how is the insurance company gonna blame anyone if they don't know an event occured? If the police don't write a ticket, ( cop says you are not guilty) they will never know.
The way the insurance companies know is by your driving history, IE the tickets you were convicted for. This is the way they determine your liability, by your history, among other indicators, age, gender, type of vehicle, part of country, ect. They should know your history, because they are gambling on your liabilty, it's thier business. How else are they going to stay in business if they don't know you are more likely to speed, drink, or not pay attention while driving/riding, and cost them more in payouts verses the premium paid? The premiums are an educated risk derived from this information.

In my opinion, you got off light, pay the fine by mail, and take the reduced points.

[Dietrich_R1]

In my opinion, you got off light, pay the fine by mail, and take the reduced points.

This is another thing the courts have set up... They know it's easier to pay the fine (what they really want) & take the great deal on reduced points.

[Aaron]

What I mean by that is if you are looking to not plead guilty but throw yourself on the mercy of the court saying you are guilty makes you guilty. There is no "mercy of the court". You are either guilty or not guilty. If you know you are guilty say so and ask for what you would appreciate the judge doing.

Don't say things like you are guilty but with an explanation or not guilty but don't have a defense. If you are not guilty fight it, ask for supporting evidence from the officer, check the calibration info for the device used, etc.

Although the court itself does not have mercy, judges do, and judges can do damn near whatever they want. In every case, when it comes to assessing fines/points/jail/etc, a judge takes the circumstances into account.

In the OP's case, although he may not win if he fights it in court, he may end up with a lesser fine/points because of the circumstances (The hill, bad weather, car unexpectedly stopped, etc). Judges have a lot of discretion when it comes to levels of punishment, and just because the ticket says it's $75 and 4 points or whatever, that goes out the window once you go to court. The Judge can look at the case and assess $20 in fines, or $200.



I was always taught a ticket is suppose to teach you a lesson...not sure it taught the OP a lesson here and really is not warranted...but the Police feel someone needs a ticket in an accident...sometimes shit happens and its called "living life". A ticket will not fix anything and is mainly there to get some money for the cop responding to an accident. I also love how in CO police throw around the 'careless' charge way to easy....that there is suppose to be used to teach you a real lesson...glad the cop was not a power trippin one that would write you for everything. (glad he had some common sense)

As far as insurance it does not matter if the cop said he was not at fault, insurance companies assign blame themselves and still could say you are guilty when the cop said you were not.

Its also always worth calling the DA, worst case they say NOPE...best case they say okay and lower the charge. Oh and if you go to court and not pay in the mail you are open to the full points because its past the date...asked a lawyer about that once, its all about making you pay and move on.
I wouldn't say it's because the Police feel someone needed a ticket. Bottom line is that it is not possible to have an accident without one or more involved persons breaking the law. Do you really think the cop who writes the ticket will see a dime of that money? The reason we have fines with tickets is so that there is an incentive to drive safe and not get pulled over. When you cruise down I25, why do you do 75? So you don't get pulled over and get a ticket. If you knew that CSP only wrote warnings, do you really think you'd still do 75?

About the Careless Driving thing. It is the most widely written traffic ticket, but for good reason. The bottom line is that it is a very open offense. There are a lot of times when someone's driving is careless in nature, although it doesn't really fit into any other category. It's just like Disorderly Conduct. No one can say "This and this are the only ways a person can be disorderly." It's a blanket charge that depends on a reasonable person, and if that reasonable person felt you were being disorderly, or in this case, driving carelessly. Like every other charge, you have the right to a trial.

Although insurance companies can assign fault themselves, you'll find that in 999 cases out of 1000, they'll side with the Officer on scene and his/her investigation.

[modette99]

I never said the cop does see a dime, except in his wages and guarantied career...oh I guess he does see the money in a way. So do the Judges, the staff at the court and other public officials.

[Aaron]

Well just like any other forum debate, there's no changing a mind no matter how ignorant one may be. But I'll tell you this, so long as we have drugs, alcohol, and emotions, there will never be enough cops, and ones that we do have will have a job whether they write tickets or not.

[d3spair]

I'd go to court. At some point a plea bargain may or may not be offered to you. If not, then you're only out a drive and some time. In my experience with tickets, I've always talked to a D.A. and have ALWAYS had the charges amended or modified to lesser charges. The fine will almost always remain the same, so be prepared for that.

You can no longer speak with the D.A. (at least here in Colorado Springs). You either accept your plea bargain or plead not guilty.

Also for the OP, definitely fight it. When I wrecked my bike I actually had "accident forgiveness" regarding my rates, but the ticket I got for wrecking was separate and my rates doubled. Bullshit right..