PDA

View Full Version : Photo Radar has a flaw



Swift
Thu Apr 28th, 2011, 10:53 PM
I'll be sure to flip the damn things off if they ever flash at me.


Denver– FOX31 Denver caught photo radar vans running red lights, speeding, and parking illegally on sidewalks all across the metro area, but no matter how many times FOX 31 Denver confronted the Photo Radar van operators they continued to break the law to enforce the law, and the van operator’s seem to think they can disregard our questions.So how would you like to disregard your photo radar ticket?
Criminal Defense attorney, Gary Pirosko says it’s easier than you might think.
“People believe it’s a legal process and they would get in trouble if they didn’t respond and that’s not the case,” he said.
Pirosko has a history of fighting photo radar. He challenged the legality of photo radar and successfully stopped Denver’s program back in 2002, but only temporarily.
Still, Pirosko knows the best way to get out of a photo radar ticket, he says just don’t pay the notice that arrives in the mail.
That’s right.
The mailed “notice of violation” may look official, even downright threatening.
But according to Colorado State Statute 42-4-110.5, photo radar tickets are not valid unless it is personally served and that means physically handed to you.
“And personal service doesn’t include being mailed a copy. It means actually being handed a copy,” he said.
Pirosko also says the city only has 90 days to personally serve your citation.
“If they can’t hand it to someone within those 90 days the ticket has to be dismissed and never filed again,” he said.
To avoid being “personally served,” Pirosko recommends you don’t answer your door to strangers.
“That’s good advice no matter what the circumstances,” he said.
If you live in a different jurisdiction than where you got your photo radar ticket, Pirosko says you’re probably even less likely to get served, “if the city has to spend $50, $60, $70 dollars or more to collect on a $40 ticket, it’s not going to be worth it for the city to pursue you,” he said.
And here’s something else you should know: photo radar enforcers can’t give you a ticket if you are going 25 miles per hour or more over the posted limit because driving that fast is a criminal offense and the ticket has to be issued by an actual police officer.
So, ironically, the most dangerous drivers don’t get caught by photo radar, while people going 10 miles per hour over the limit pay the price.
To be clear, FOX 31 does not condone speeding.
According the Denver Police Department (which oversees the photo radar program):


The total revenue collected from the photo radar program in 2010 was $3,652,193.28
The city of Denver only spent $36,750 to “personally serve” those tickets.

Pirosko says the numbers show an overwhelming majority of drivers are paying the mailed notices even though they are not required to by law, “there’s not a disclaimer on those notices that says you don’t have to respond to this, “ he said, “and there’s a reason for that, it’s a money making cash cow for the city.”
We sent the Denver Police Department a list of questions including, “If the statute says drivers have to be physically served a photo radar ticket, why should they pay the notices they receive in the mail?”
The Denver Police Department did not answer those questions or agree to do an on camera interview, but sent us a statement which says in part, “The purpose of photo radar is to reduce speeds, especially in safety zones, such as school zones.”
Still, drivers we talked to say they rarely see photo radar vans in school zones, construction zones or residential areas, instead they’re parked illegally on sidewalks near heavily travelled roads like University boulevard, Santa Fe, and 6th avenue.
But Pirosko says if you don’t like the Photo Radar vans there is something you can do about it.
He says the photo radar program would stop in a flash, if it started costing the city too much to collect.
If you don’t pay the mailed “notice of violation,” you won’t lose any point on your license, you’re driving record will not be effected and your car cannot be booted.
If you ignore the mailed notice and the city manages to track you down to “personally serve” your citation—you will be charged a fee of at least $25 for that “personal service as well as the cost of your ticket.
Other ways to get out of a photo radar ticket:


If you are not the pictured driver, mail in a clear photo copy of your driver’s license and the city will dismiss your ticket.
The city has to be able to identify the violator (driver) if the notice is sent to a leasing company (for a leased vehicle) or a corporation name (fleet vehicle) you are not obligated to pay.
You are under no legal obligation to identify the driver.

SloBlue
Thu Apr 28th, 2011, 10:59 PM
I saw the promo for this story on Fox, but I missed the story. Thanks for posting it! Great info.

Vellos
Thu Apr 28th, 2011, 11:05 PM
I rage past those guys because the ones I've seen only take pictures of the front. Give 'em a little wave!

And for all motorcyclists we could just say we weren't the driver. Unless you were :squid: when you got snapped.

Drunktank
Thu Apr 28th, 2011, 11:12 PM
I probably recieved 50 of those in Phoenix.... never paid a single one and no one ever came to my door trying to serve me either. Glad to see CO law is the same. Radar vans are a freaking joke.... how about the city lay off some of their leech workers and SAVE money.

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Apr 28th, 2011, 11:29 PM
I rage past those guys because the ones I've seen only take pictures of the front. Give 'em a little wave!

And for all motorcyclists we could just say we weren't the driver. Unless you were :squid: when you got snapped.

they snap a photo of the front and rear. But the law also states that a citation cannot be issued if the photo doesn't positively ID the driver (helmet anyone?). If the vehicle is joint registered, the citation is issued to the driver who looks like the proper name (i.e. John & Jane).

I have not paid a photo ticket yet. If I'm cutting it close on a red light camera, I pull down the visor and sit up in the seat so the camera cannot see my face.

CaneZach
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 12:30 AM
I can't stand enforcement for the sake of revenue generation, which is all photo radar is. Same goes for red light cameras. I can't stand asshats who run red lights, but the cameras are there solely to collect $$$ for their respective municipalities.

BushyAR15
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 06:18 AM
This article and news report specifically address Denver, what about the other Metro cities that use it such as Aurora?

Are the laws the same?

TinkerinWstuff
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 07:47 AM
This article and news report specifically address Denver, what about the other Metro cities that use it such as Aurora?

Are the laws the same?



But according to Colorado State Statute 42-4-110.5, photo radar tickets are not valid unless it is personally served and that means physically handed to you.

Aurora is in Colorado right?

cbrjohnny
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 08:19 AM
this is good stuff

Ol'Skool
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 08:39 AM
I also saw a news story recently where rear end collisions are up drasticly since photo radar was started. Drivers are slamming on their brakes on yellow. So much for the "enforcing safety" defense.

Ricky
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 08:44 AM
Wow, this is just what I needed. I got a photo radar ticket in the mail the other day. I was going to pay it, but I also considered paying in the form of 8000 checks (since you can't pay in cash, or pennies), just to be an asshole. But now I'll just let it go, and not answer the door.

Holy shit, I just realized that my ticket is invalid. I was going 26mph over the speed limit. 81mph in a 55mph

TinkerinWstuff
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 08:47 AM
Wow, this is just what I needed. I got a photo radar ticket in the mail the other day. I was going to pay it, but I also considered paying in the form of 8000 checks (since you can't pay in cash, or pennies), just to be an asshole. But now I'll just let it go, and not answer the door.

Holy shit, I just realized that my ticket is invalid. I was going 26mph over the speed limit. 81mph in a 55mph

In the cage?

Ricky
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 08:53 AM
In the cage?

Yup.... right at the beginning of the construction zone coming off 270 onto 70.

TinkerinWstuff
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 08:56 AM
Yup.... right at the beginning of the construction zone coming off 270 onto 70.

Figured as much. I don't know anyone on a bike whose ever received a photo ticket. The biggest issue being that they have to be able to ID the driver.

TinkerinWstuff
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 09:00 AM
From what I hear, Canada is different. The ticket goes to the owner of the vehicle regardless and traffic law states that the owner is responsible. If you don't want tickets generated by another driver, don't loan out your car.

Ricky
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 09:02 AM
Figured as much. I don't know anyone on a bike whose ever received a photo ticket. The biggest issue being that they have to be able to ID the driver.

Yup, and it's a clear shot of my face, except that I'm wearing a beanie, sunglasses, and full beard. On my license picture (how they prove whether or not it's you) I'm clean shaven.

Either way, I just emailed that attorney in that story to ask him if I should fight that ticket since it's invalid, or just let it go.... we'll see what he says.

Ricky
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 09:04 AM
From what I hear, Canada is different. The ticket goes to the owner of the vehicle regardless and traffic law states that the owner is responsible. If you don't want tickets generated by another driver, don't loan out your car.

My Dad got on in Spain while in a car they rented. $90. Car rental company forwarded him the ticket and identified him as the driver. I had to call over there and ask them to send photos because they didn't have any proof it was him. If you don't pay the ticket, they can keep you from entering the country and other countries in the EU. Fuckin crazy.

birchyboy
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 09:35 AM
I'd be very wary of not paying tickets based on a news story. I took a quick look at the current law and didn't see anything about a requirement that the citation be "personally served". The only thing I found with a quick scan was regarding how much cost the issuing service can charge the municipality for sending the notice.

The story says that the lawyer challenged the law, had it suspended in 2002 but the suspension was quickly overturned. There is a section of the law that was deleted in 2002 but it doesn't give the text and I haven't dug back into the 2002 archives to see what it was.

If I read it too fast and someone else has read this portion of the law I'll stand corrected :-)

Edit: found where the "personally served" portion was removed:

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl2002a/sl_178.htm

CYCLE_MONKEY
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 09:44 AM
Excellent post, thanks!

birchyboy
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 09:54 AM
I emailed the local Fox news stations and sent them a link to the amendment removing the "personally served" portion of the bill. This is what I got in return:



Well, Alan, the city had plenty of time to respond to this, the city attorney agreed with our interpretation. Thanks for the email though and for taking time to write.

Heidi Hemmat
Investigative Reporter


Do with this what you will :-)

dirkterrell
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 09:57 AM
I emailed the local Fox news stations and sent them a link to the amendment removing the "personally served" portion of the bill. This is what I got in return:

Quote:
Well, Alan, the city had plenty of time to respond to this, the city attorney agreed with our interpretation. Thanks for the email though and for taking time to write.

Heidi Hemmat
Investigative Reporter

Do with this what you will :-)


They probably want a bunch of people to not pay the fines so they can throw even more penalty fines on them and make even more money. :)

sprtbkbabe
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:15 AM
I enjoyed bicycling past a photo radar van on Yosemite south of 225.

He was just setting up outside of his van.

I nodded head and said "hey good luck!"

At least I got a Thanks back :blowup:

Racz
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:18 AM
They probably want a bunch of people to not pay the fines so they can throw even more penalty fines on them and make even more money. :)

Makes sense and its crazy to think that they care more about revenue then peoples safety in regards to the rear end collision going up.

edj
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:22 AM
When I received my photoradar ticket... that said I was speeding in a school zone and had the time printed on the photo... I WAS NOT... day after daylight savings and their CLOCK WAS OFF BY AN HOUR! How professional. I called the Boulder office to figure out how to fight it... they made it sound tricky and expensive and I didn't want to drive to Boulder anyway. So upon noticing the bit about them having to serve you in person I took my chances... never got served. That was two years ago.

I figured it would be worth the extra $25 to get to chat to the officer about how lame the system that replaces them with photoradar only to make them drive about handing out papers.

Definitely DO NOT PAY until served.

A number of cities are actually removing photoradar... the contractors make more than the city and there is NO EVIDENCE that photoradar reduces speed. A visible police car reduces speed (even if there is nobody inside).

CaneZach
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:32 AM
I also saw a news story recently where rear end collisions are up drasticly since photo radar was started. Drivers are slamming on their brakes on yellow. So much for the "enforcing safety" defense.

You mean the red light cams? Yes, it's certainly likely rear-enders have increased, but part of the cause is people following too closely. The drivers in this state can't seem to see anything 10' past the front of their bumper, so it doesn't surprise me they would run into someone's ass.

edj
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:46 AM
http://www.banthecams.org/component/option,com_xmap/Itemid,36/sitemap,1/ has hundreds or thousands of articles about the failings and problems of speed cameras and how they are entirely ineffective at reducing speeding (the claimed goal).

TinkerinWstuff
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:49 AM
Lets see, I have two of these here on my desk that I beat. They say right on the citation in bold print:

" If you disregard this notice you can be personally served at your own expense, which will be at least $35.00, in addition to the fine indicated above, after which, failure to pay your fine in accordance with the instructions herein, could result in further action against you and may adversely affect your credit rating. You can also be served by certified mail. "

Ricky
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:50 AM
I'd be very wary of not paying tickets based on a news story. I took a quick look at the current law and didn't see anything about a requirement that the citation be "personally served". The only thing I found with a quick scan was regarding how much cost the issuing service can charge the municipality for sending the notice.

The story says that the lawyer challenged the law, had it suspended in 2002 but the suspension was quickly overturned. There is a section of the law that was deleted in 2002 but it doesn't give the text and I haven't dug back into the 2002 archives to see what it was.

If I read it too fast and someone else has read this portion of the law I'll stand corrected :-)

Edit: found where the "personally served" portion was removed:

http://www.state.co.us/gov_dir/leg_dir/olls/sl2002a/sl_178.htm

It wasn't removed... It was reworded right below that:


(II) If the state, a county, a city and county, or a municipality detects any alleged violation of a municipal traffic regulation or a traffic violation under state law through the use of an automated vehicle identification system, then the state, county, city and county, or municipality shall serve the penalty assessment notice or summons and complaint for the alleged violation on the defendant pursuant to the requirements of subparagraph (I) of this paragraph (a) no later than ninety days after the alleged violation occurred.

vort3xr6
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 10:59 AM
I used to do huge wheelies past them in Phoenix. On the US-60, there are 5 of them in a row. I really want to call them and ask for my sweet wheelie pictures.

TinkerinWstuff
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 11:06 AM
LOL!!! That's good

The Black Knight
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 11:36 AM
Wow, this is just what I needed. I got a photo radar ticket in the mail the other day. I was going to pay it, but I also considered paying in the form of 8000 checks (since you can't pay in cash, or pennies), just to be an asshole. But now I'll just let it go, and not answer the door.

Holy shit, I just realized that my ticket is invalid. I was going 26mph over the speed limit. 81mph in a 55mph


Yup.... right at the beginning of the construction zone coming off 270 onto 70.
So let me get this straight. You don't think you were in the wrong by going 81 in a 55mph + Construction zone???

Ricky
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 12:29 PM
So let me get this straight. You don't think you were in the wrong by going 81 in a 55mph + Construction zone???

Did I say that? NO. Thanks for your input though.

Dietrich_R1
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 12:40 PM
Do they still send the "citations" as a certified letter?

If they do.... ask the postman to see it BEFORE you sign on the dotted line. They'll just write refused on it & send it back from whence it came. They got their $0.40 cents out of it.

brennahm
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 01:31 PM
I hate tix as much as the next guy...I just don't understand why people spend so much time complaining about it being a $$ ploy.

Sure it's a money ploy, doesn't make it illegal or even wrong in my opinion.

/rational thought

d3spair
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 02:53 PM
Do they still send the "citations" as a certified letter?

If they do.... ask the postman to see it BEFORE you sign on the dotted line. They'll just write refused on it & send it back from whence it came. They got their $0.40 cents out of it.

Good to know.

modette99
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 03:22 PM
From what I hear, Canada is different. The ticket goes to the owner of the vehicle regardless and traffic law states that the owner is responsible. If you don't want tickets generated by another driver, don't loan out your car.

That's how it worked in Austria too....but then again there was no points either so it was your responsibility to collect from your friend.

DevilsTonic
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 03:39 PM
:up: great thread! Thanks!

modette99
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 03:48 PM
I thought we had this talk already

http://www.smugmug.com/photos/1194369793_oZgMY-M.jpg
http://www.smugmug.com/photos/1194370097_X3zYe-M.jpg

These photos should be sent to the news source that did the story.

The Black Knight
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 04:04 PM
Did I say that? NO. Thanks for your input though.
That's why I was asking dumbass... because you came across as being happy about getting out of a ticket that you rightfully deserve. See it's idiots like you that make it unsafe for guys like me to work out in traffic(and the crazy part, is I'm hardly in a "Construction Zone", more like just out in regular traffic areas). What?? are you to blind to see the 15 "flashing" signs that usually proceed a Construction Zone?? Oh I get it, you just don't care and think that you should just be able to go what ever speed you feel through a Construction Zone.

I see this every day here in Colorado Springs. People either in too much of a hurry, don't like going 25mph or 35mph in a Construction Zone. So they end up just blowing through it. There's reasons those speeds are advised, because you've got people, machinery, etc. either in traffic, entering traffic or just close enough to traffic.

I have no sympathy for people who blatantly disregard Construction or School Zones. You can't miss the flashing lights, the 50 signs pointing out a "slow zone" ahead and in my opinion, if people actually tell that to a cop. They should have their fines tripled on top of the usual double fines.

:down:

Spiderman
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 04:29 PM
because you came across as being happy about getting out of a ticket that you rightfully deserve.
That's not now how I perceived his statement:

Holy shit, I just realized that my ticket is invalid. I was going 26mph over the speed limit. 81mph in a 55mph
All I get out of that is shock/surprise. Had he said "Sweet" at the end, or put :devil1:, that would've carried a different tone, but he didn't.


That's why I was asking dumbass...
See it's idiots like you that make it unsafe for guys like me to work out in traffic...
Sounds to me like you're taking all your frustration out on Ricky and trying to make an example out of him just because he admitted to speeding through a construction zone. You can bitch about people speeding through where you're working, but don't try and make it personal by singling someone out that hasn't done anything to you.

I think some people might need to get out and go for a ride... good thing it's the weekend!

DeeStylez
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Trying to fight the ticket when you know your wrong is pretty messed up, and hiding from a process server over a $40 ticket :think:


These three options I'm cool with:

If you are not the pictured driver, mail in a clear photo copy of your driver’s license and the city will dismiss your ticket.
The city has to be able to identify the violator (driver) if the notice is sent to a leasing company (for a leased vehicle) or a corporation name (fleet vehicle) you are not obligated to pay.
You are under no legal obligation to identify the driver.

The Black Knight
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 05:53 PM
That's not now how I perceived his statement:

All I get out of that is shock/surprise. Had he said "Sweet" at the end, or put :devil1:, that would've carried a different tone, but he didn't.

Sounds to me like you're taking all your frustration out on Ricky and trying to make an example out of him just because he admitted to speeding through a construction zone. You can bitch about people speeding through where you're working, but don't try and make it personal by singling someone out that hasn't done anything to you.

I think some people might need to get out and go for a ride... good thing it's the weekend!
And that's fine, if that's how you perceived it, I can't hold that against you. But unless you actually work out in traffic?? Which I'm guessing you don't, you'll never understand what I'm talking about.

I see more than my share of people blatantly disregarding cone zones, trucks with flashing lights, barricades, signs warning of oncoming construction and even flagmen.

Then to ice the cake, these are the types of people that like to yell at us, throw things at us, pull in between places they aren't supposed to be. And I'm not just making this up for the hell of it, I've actually had glass bottles chucked at me while I was working, only to have them shatter mere feet away from.

So you can see why I have zero tolerance for people that speed or pull other shenanigans through a construction zone. It's my life that's out in traffic day in and day out, and I honestly don't care if it(Construction Zone) wrecks your day or makes you have to go slow and be late to work. Not my problem, leave earlier if you have to or take another route.


p.s.
I wasn't making an example of him, he's the one that popped up with the details of why he got the ticket. Kind of hard to single out someone when they admit to an 81mph in a 55mph Construction Zone.

The GECCO
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 05:57 PM
Trying to fight the ticket when you know your wrong is pretty messed up, and hiding from a process server over a $40 ticket :think:
I'm kinda on the fence about this issue...our countries legal system says that the government has the obligation to prove guilt. That's fair. Simply availing yourself of the system and the laws as they are written is not messed up, in my opinion.

Not to single you out and start a flame war, but a serious question - do you voluntarily go in and pay a fine every time you speed, regardless of whether or not anyone sees you, or an officer tickets you? Assuming your answer is "no" - why not? You knew you were wrong, didn't you? But you didn't get "caught", so you don't pay a penalty, right? So, it all comes down to getting "caught". In my opinion, you aren't "caught" when the citation is issued (that's just an accusation), you're "caught" when you're convicted or plead guilty. Availing yourself of the system and forcing the government to play by their own rules/laws is not messed up, it's the ways things are supposed to be!

Too many of us have become sheep when it comes to traffic violations, we simply roll over and pay the fine, regardless of if it was really deserved or not. The government realizes this, and simply wants to automate the process to make it easier to get your money. If EVERYONE properly challenged EVERY traffic ticket in court, there would be no more BS tickets written, only serious infractions would be written. Until that happens, the government will see us as nothing more than a cash register that's easy to open with nothing more than a pen and a ticket book.

modette99
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 06:15 PM
I have no sympathy for people who blatantly disregard Construction or School Zones. You can't miss the flashing lights, the 50 signs pointing out a "slow zone" ahead and in my opinion, if people actually tell that to a cop. They should have their fines tripled on top of the usual double fines.

:down:

I got to say with all MI's flaws I will say their rule on construction zones make sense. You only need to slow if workmen are present, otherwise its 70mph on I75.

No reason to slow traffic if no one is present in the work zone which happens to be the case most of the time.

Connman
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 06:16 PM
Perfect timing for this topic, I just got 'flashed' last night.
BTW... anyone around Southlands, theres a brand new photo-radar camera at the Smoky Hill entrance to Southlands Mall.

modette99
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 06:21 PM
Perfect timing for this topic, I just got 'flashed' last night.
BTW... anyone around Southlands, theres a brand new photo-radar camera at the Smoky Hill entrance to Southlands Mall.

If I lived in Denver I might be tempted to order one and wear it around while driving...LOL

http://images.politicalmasks.com/barack-obama-mask.jpg

Hey thats not me in the picture...looks to be Obama mail him the ticket.

Cars-R-Coffins
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 06:40 PM
Lets see, I have two of these here on my desk that I beat. They say right on the citation in bold print:

" If you disregard this notice you can be personally served at your own expense, which will be at least $35.00, in addition to the fine indicated above, after which, failure to pay your fine in accordance with the instructions herein, could result in further action against you and may adversely affect your credit rating. You can also be served by certified mail. "

If it's going to affect my credit I'd rather pay the $40. Or maybe that's just a ploy.

The Black Knight
Fri Apr 29th, 2011, 07:03 PM
I got to say with all MI's flaws I will say their rule on construction zones make sense. You only need to slow if workmen are present, otherwise its 70mph on I75.

No reason to slow traffic if no one is present in the work zone which happens to be the case most of the time.
Not down here it doesn't apply. Marksheffel Rd.(here in the Springs) is going through major road construction at the moment. Normally it's 55mph but has been reduced down to 35mph. That 35mph applies at "ALL" times of the day or night, regardless if workers are present. And for those that feel the need to press the issue, El Paso Sheriffs are more than happy to hand you a citation for doing what you "THINK" should be the speed limit vs. the posted construction zone limit.

modette99
Sat Apr 30th, 2011, 08:48 AM
^^^ Did I say I know that...and its why I think other states are stupid in their laws. I go with the flow of TRAFFIC assuming there is traffic otherwise its the speed limit because I've seen CO cops wait in construction zones...rare to see that in MI. They typically wait after to get the people now making up the time and speeding 20+ over.

Still I would like to see a law that says no workers then its the normal speed limit. No reason to slow people down and create traffic problems when no workers are around.

modette99
Sat Apr 30th, 2011, 09:12 AM
If it's going to affect my credit I'd rather pay the $40. Or maybe that's just a ploy.

You can report anyone you want to collections. But will it be upheld if the person fights it? Most likely not. All you got to say is, show me proof that this is a debt I owe...I doubt a collections company will have the photo and there is no signed contract like say with a credit card, or a loan company. I would say the state has the right to send it to collections but it will never stick and I bet they would not take the liability to send it to collections.

Imagine you go to buy a new home, bank says sorry because of some amount reported to collections we can not give you the loan. You get that in writing from the bank to show proof it affected you (damages) and then sue the collection agency along with the reporting agency and maybe make some $$$$$.

Sorry that must of been a friend from Europe that borrowed the car, mail him a ticket is all I would say.

I'm interested to know how well the pictures are, I just find it hard to believe that it be well enough taken (without glare, blockage of some sort), that someone other then yourself would know its you. I guess if you see the signs and speed van you should turn your head away from the van...LOL Or run very tinted windows.

The Jury Duty notices come in regular mail...again not really a legitimate notice. They also use strong language on them.

Running a business and I need to report a deadbeat for an amount of money I need to mail them a signature confirmation letter. If they fail to sign it is still proof they received to the address that is known to them the notice. If they sign I get back the post card showing they signed. this is what a court needs to show proof they were notified of the debt before a storage unit can be foreclosed on. A Judge will not accept normal mail, or even Delivery Confirmation as proof as an attempt to notify. Another legal way is to have it served....its not MY FAULT the state needs to pay to have it served and I should not be held responsible for that amount when they should be serving people the notices in accordance with the law.

Too many people just pay the tickets...so they are not yet going to worry about the small fish that do nothing...its not WORTH their time. Now if everyone stopped paying or the majority then you would see laws changed...but thats never going to happen people feel they should just pay $40 and be done with it. Even if they toss on a $35 server fee thats only $75...its not going to break most peoples banks so why not just skip that first notice and see....I just don't think they will spend more money to try and serve you.

Now if the system goes more towards like CA and hundreds of dollars for a fine...they ticketing agency will have more interest in pay $40 even $80 to find you and serve you. My friends mother in CA stopped at a red, then proceeded to turn right and was ticketed $500 (for running a red), her stop was not full but was safe to go) they let you go online view the footage and decide for yourself. She just paid the fine as its cheaper then to fight it...if fines become $500 here trust me they will then serve you...but for $40...nope not going to happen.

The Black Knight
Sat Apr 30th, 2011, 12:32 PM
^^^ Did I say I know that...and its why I think other states are stupid in their laws. I go with the flow of TRAFFIC assuming there is traffic otherwise its the speed limit because I've seen CO cops wait in construction zones...rare to see that in MI. They typically wait after to get the people now making up the time and speeding 20+ over.

Still I would like to see a law that says no workers then its the normal speed limit. No reason to slow people down and create traffic problems when no workers are around.
Yeah but the reason for the constant "low speed" through a Construction Zone is to also protect equipment and other machinery as well. Lane shifts, barricades, jersey barriers, cones. They don't put up slower speed limits just to piss you off. They are up for a reason.

I don't really see what the big deal is with construction zones. If you don't like going through them, go around or just plan for the extra 5-10 minutes it will take to get through. I for one, am glad that the "construction zone" speeds are constant. Because there's more at stake in a slow zone that just where you need to be at any given moment.

modette99
Sat Apr 30th, 2011, 03:13 PM
Yeah but the reason for the constant "low speed" through a Construction Zone is to also protect equipment and other machinery as well. Lane shifts, barricades, jersey barriers, cones. They don't put up slower speed limits just to piss you off. They are up for a reason.

I don't really see what the big deal is with construction zones. If you don't like going through them, go around or just plan for the extra 5-10 minutes it will take to get through. I for one, am glad that the "construction zone" speeds are constant. Because there's more at stake in a slow zone that just where you need to be at any given moment.

Assuming you keep up to date with construction zones, I know I don't. So how will I know to leave 10 minutes early...I don't work thus I don't commute. Plus I assume you are kidding with going around, I don't know areas all over the country THAT well to just divert off and end up in some slum.

See in MI thats was all the talk, oh its a safety aspect for the drivers also to slow down...then they found no more wrecks happened when the law changed...wow what a surprise (not really to us that think it through). So the safety aspect is go slow if people are working otherwise nothing changed really and lane shifts are not a big deal. It worked there, I'm sure CO is not that different...people tend to all drive the same. No reason to slow to 35mph in the middle of the night with no one around.

I don't see the big deal...

Swift
Tue May 3rd, 2011, 04:55 PM
Too bad it wasn't parked on the tracks.

modette99
Tue May 3rd, 2011, 05:05 PM
Too bad 60pan did not place a huge for sale sign behind the van...LOL Especially if it was left unattended...LOL They come back and find 100 photos of Obama putting Americans to work sign...LOL

Zenshu
Thu Nov 17th, 2011, 11:29 PM
only photo ticket I ever got was in Texas and theirs actually say on the mailed notice that the photo ticket cannot be used as evidence in a court hearing...so if you choose not to pay them there is no evidence against you.

Wrider
Fri Nov 18th, 2011, 07:07 AM
Oh just to let y'all know... Back in July I got a photo ticket in Fort Collins. Was sent a citation, then a 2nd warning. Both were written in strong language and said I had the option to pay, to fight it, etc. Never responded to either, haven't heard from them since. Went in to renew my license, it's not on the records either.
YMMV

asp_125
Fri Nov 18th, 2011, 11:08 AM
I got one in the mail the other day, went on line to view the actual picture. On the bottom they show what the threshold to trigger the ticket is. For cars it said 10mph over, but for trucks it was 100mph over. So clearly the system is discriminating on the type of vehicle.

Haven't decided if I'll pay or not. 'Cause everyone knows all us asians look alike. :D

Kevin
Fri Dec 23rd, 2011, 03:39 PM
I can personally attest to this. Someone at the city clued me into this when I called, worried because I had missed the payment date on a photo ticket. In the 4 years since then, I've completely ignored: 1 photo speeding ticket and 2 red light tickets. They just went away - no trouble, nothing on my record, nobody coming after me.

Good to know.

Clovis
Fri Dec 23rd, 2011, 05:45 PM
Colorado Springs ended it's red light camera program (they only had a few camera sections to begin with). They cited the cost associated with having to supervise it.

Xtremjeepn
Wed Dec 28th, 2011, 08:43 AM
Disclaimer, I did not read the whole thread.


But thought you might find this interesting.

Let's just say I wasn't driving but was in the car.;) Doing 45mph in what is normally a 45mph zone. Also an area we normally don't drive in so did not know there was construction.

Our lane ends up a head for construction zone. Signal politely, no one wants to let us in. Clear spot up ahead, so the hammer is dropped to reach it quickly! (in a 530hp Porsche:devil2:)

Just before getting back into our lane, FLASH FLASH, from the photo radar van!:doublefinger:


You know they have a 25mph over limit on the photo vans right?!


Ticket arrived last week........for......wait for it........

35mph in a 25mph and $80 fine:wtf:

A perfect 10mph over! :wtf:

ian22
Thu Dec 29th, 2011, 10:18 AM
So, on a similar topic....I recently heard that you can avoid the tolls if you don't have a front license plate? Anyone? Can't the cameras on the E470 get a picture of your rear license plate?

grim
Thu Dec 29th, 2011, 10:39 AM
So, on a similar topic....I recently heard that you can avoid the tolls if you don't have a front license plate? Anyone? Can't the cameras on the E470 get a picture of your rear license plate?

That's bullshit and a chef salad the rear plate is what it takes a picture of. So whoever told you that is a moron.

Reason being some states do not require you to have a front plate so it would make sense to just always take a picture of the plate on the back as there is no state that says you don't have to have one there.

Those cameras are good i have tried being crafty on the bike and going to the far right hoping it wouldn't catch my plate (which is under the seat but still visible) and it still got me..i have a transponder now just cheaper that way.

ian22
Thu Dec 29th, 2011, 10:41 AM
Makes sense....it gets your bike plate even though its under your seat? I guess they'd have to be pretty good about it or they'd never make enough revenue to keep the toll road kept up.

grim
Thu Dec 29th, 2011, 10:59 AM
Makes sense....it gets your bike plate even though its under your seat? I guess they'd have to be pretty good about it or they'd never make enough revenue to keep the toll road kept up.

Yup still got the bill in the mail.

TransNone13
Thu Dec 29th, 2011, 07:55 PM
I'd like to see this http://www.gizmag.com/norte-photoblocker-club-beer-cooler/20820/, turned into a photo blocking license plate.......

Pretty cool, it's an active form of photo detection and blocking. They have these on purses for paparazzi and a beer cooler for parties (see above).

Clovis
Thu Dec 29th, 2011, 08:29 PM
I run without a front plate (because I'm a rebel). I still get bills for E 470 in the mail.

I suppose you could put a strip of duct tape over your license plate for your duration on 470? :)


So, on a similar topic....I recently heard that you can avoid the tolls if you don't have a front license plate? Anyone? Can't the cameras on the E470 get a picture of your rear license plate?

GoldenBoy
Fri Dec 30th, 2011, 11:19 PM
Here is one answer. for the toll roads, might want to do the cost benefit analysis on this one first.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hide-MOTORCYCLE-PLATES-BMW-S1000RR-K1300S-Radar-/110797072576?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19cc0528c0

If you are to lazy to open the link continue reading...............

.......for $158 you can own a license plate holder that with a flip of a switch will cover your plate "instantly cover" (small print reads: 3 sec) from cameras and prying eyes.

When I get back to Denver in March I will be making a spring load device that will actually hide your plate instantly. No, motors just mechanical parts, cheap and reliably.

I know if I had this plate shield I would have to stop and check to see if the shield when back up everytime I used it. Knowing my luck it would get stuck in the down position and then once I saw the cop behind me I would hit the swicth only to reveil my plate the the cop before I took off running. F.M.L!

:boom:

Clovis
Fri Dec 30th, 2011, 11:45 PM
Just an FYI, in Colorado evading an officer is a 12 point offense by itself.

It's also a felony. Not to mention endangering the public.

In other words, running from the police has major repercussions if you're caught. If.

Source: http://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/point-system.php


Here is one answer. for the toll roads, might want to do the cost benefit analysis on this one first.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hide-MOTORCYCLE-PLATES-BMW-S1000RR-K1300S-Radar-/110797072576?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item19cc0528c0

If you are to lazy to open the link continue reading...............

.......for $158 you can own a license plate holder that with a flip of a switch will cover your plate "instantly cover" (small print reads: 3 sec) from cameras and prying eyes.

When I get back to Denver in March I will be making a spring load device that will actually hide your plate instantly. No, motors just mechanical parts, cheap and reliably.

I know if I had this plate shield I would have to stop and check to see if the shield when back up everytime I used it. Knowing my luck it would get stuck in the down position and then once I saw the cop behind me I would hit the swicth only to reveil my plate the the cop before I took off running. F.M.L!

:boom:

GoldenBoy
Sat Dec 31st, 2011, 08:59 AM
Just an FYI, in Colorado evading an officer is a 12 point offense by itself.

It's also a felony. Not to mention endangering the public.

In other words, running from the police has major repercussions if you're caught. If.

Source: http://www.dmv.org/co-colorado/point-system.php


Your right but they gotta catch you first!............Not that I have ever try or anything but, if you do try to out run them remember police radios are overrated. In a city like Denver the reason they make the penalty so severe is because police protocol is to disengage from pursuit the moment the chase endangers the public or has the potential to cause harm to the public or the person be chased. Knowing Denver, If I am being chased on my bike and crash I can most likely sue the city for my crash......lol....but no really I wouldn't be surprised. I have heard of this crap in other places like Cali.

Just saying.....

But anyways use your small size and acceleration and speed to your advantage. Get out of eye site find a nice place to hide the bike and chill out for 4 to 5 hours. The police will put out a "Be on the look out for" message. so make sure your well hidden.........

Now that's living. Want to know your alive, out run the cops.