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View Full Version : I favor Lane Sharing in Colorado



SloBlue
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 09:48 PM
I think I'll start a new thread on lane sharing instead of continuing on the Squid Alert!!! thread.

It astonishes me that there can be any disagreement about the benefits of lane sharing for motorcycles.

1. It has been in California for years. It works there. It will work here.

2. It is really, really stupid to sit in traffic on a motorcycle, a vehicle by it's very design nature should never be constrained by a traffic jam.

3. If it is legal in Colorado, you may do it, you don't HAVE to do it.

4. Many motorcycles have less adequate cooling systems than cars. They are not made to sit in idle in a traffic jam at 105 degrees.

5. The cars surrounding the motorcycle stuck in traffic at 105 degrees have roofs and air conditioners. The drivers are not wearing helmets, armoured coats, etc.

6. Most motorcycles on the road do not have Catalytic converters. They produce more pollution, relatively speaking, than the cars while stopped in traffic.

7. Motorcycles get an average of 30 - 60 mpg or more. This helps our reduce our dependance on foreign oil, unless the motorcycle isn't moving.

8. Auto drivers will get used to lane sharing, even if they don't like it. Just like in California.

9. Motorcycle clutches are not designed to work well or long in stop and go traffic. Yes, there are some automatic motorcycles, but statistically, they are probably less than 1%

10. As I stated originally, sitting on a motorcycle in stopped traffic is as stupid as sitting on a bicycle in stopped traffic.


There are 10 good reasons off the top of my head why Colorado needs lane sharing. The Senator I was talking to wanted to know if most motorcyclists supported the idea, or if it was just me. As with anything else in politics, it's all about numbers.

Ted
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 09:54 PM
Goodluck, even if it was legal here in CO, i ain't doing it ....however, occasionally i do ride the shoulder here in Boulder on Foothills between Arapahoe and Colorado during morning rush hour...

Ghost
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 09:56 PM
I did it while I lived in Japan, where it's fully expected, where there are extra areas at red lights where bikes can pull up to be in front of cars (basically there's a crosswalk, space for bikes, then cars stop behind another line) and the culture of driving is one of privilege and drivers are far more alert, far more aware of bikes, better trained, and generally courteous. I never was afraid to lane spit, even when I went from Kyoto to Sapporo by bike (and train and ferry).

When I visited my friends in Cali, they'd lane split and I have never felt more UNsafe in my life.

Yes, the state allows it, but the cagers don't seem aware of that fact, nor do they care.

Riding in a car's blindspot for 85% of the time you're splitting lanes seems like a great way to get splattered when some asshole jumps lanes without looking, when they lane-wander since they're texting and not paying attention, or whenever anyone makes a mistake.

I think it should be legal to pull ahead at redlights like in Japan, and I think running the left shoulder shouldn't be illegal if there's a jam, but I can't see going down the middle of two rows of inattentive idiots who can kill me without ever knowing I was there...

SloBlue
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:15 PM
When I visited my friends in Cali, they'd lane split and I have never felt more UNsafe in my life.

.

See my reason for lane sharing law in Colorado #3



Colorado riders are not any more used to lane sharing than the cagers are. If we passed the law, you would find yourself filtering ahead at a red light, or moving out of a traffic jam where the cars are stopped. You would get more comfortable with lane sharing. You would learn to watch signs that cars are going to impede the space you plan to share. My guess would be that, yes, there are some lane sharing accidents, but mostly minor, like busting someones mirror. I lived in California for many years and rode my Honda XL 500. I didn't lane share much, or at all, but it was nice to be able to if needed.

FZRguy
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:23 PM
I'm all for it....just needs to be legal before I'd do it. In CA, is it legal on all roads, or just divided highways?

SloBlue
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:28 PM
I just pulled the following information off of Laneshare.org. As far as I know, this information is correct.


When it comes to lane-sharing in North America, California is Mecca. In fact, if you want to get anywhere on a motorcycle in the Los Angeles basin, avoiding lane-sharing is not an option. The practice of lane-sharing has been allowed for decades. Yet, contrary to popular belief, there is no California statute permitting the practice. On the other hand, there’s no law stating you can’t lane-share. In other words, lane-sharing is not legal, but rather not illegal in the Golden State.

Perhaps a matter of semantics for some, this is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it allows some flexibility in the use of lane-sharing. On the other hand, it leaves it up to the discretion of the Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) and his/her opinion whether your brand of lane-sharing is “reasonable and prudent“.

The generally “understood” guidelines seem to be:

Travel no faster than 10 mph faster than the vehicles you’re lane-sharing with.
Merge back in with the traffic when they reach 30-35 mph.
Never exceed the speed limit.
Lane-sharing between lanes #1 and #2 is preferred. (#1 being the “fast” or “inside” lane)
Stay, more or less, in one lane or the other. Excessive meandering might get you cited. (CA code 21658)
Ride carefully to not cause damage to other vehicles.

Add to this a few other pointers:

Be a competent rider before attempting the practice.
Be prepared to adjust your speed as necessary.
Cover your brake and clutch to reduce reaction time.
Avoid lane-sharing between two large trucks.
Be wary of open spaces inviting a vehicle to change lanes.
Be vigilant of other vehicle operator’s head movements indicative of an impending lane change.
Check your mirrors and be prepared to move over for overtaking motorcycles behind you.
When in doubt, wait for a CHP motor patrol officer and follow him/her. (You might have to travel a bit faster than 10mph to keep up.)
When an incident occurs between the lane-sharing motorcyclist and another vehicle, it’s not always the motorcyclist who gets cited. It’s up to the LEO to decide who was at fault (back to the double-edged sword). For instance, if the lane-changing vehicle didn’t signal the change properly, that operator could be cited for violating CA code 22107. On the other hand, if the motorcyclist was deemed to be traveling at too great a speed for the situation, CA code 22350 would be used to cite the rider.

brennahm
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:28 PM
2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10

All those reasons are ridiculous. We CHOOSE to operate a vehicle that puts us in those conditions...so we get to move ahead? So because diesel trucks pollute more maybe we should put in a special lane for them so they don't have to stop? Because my Smart Car isn't very safe I should be able to go around traffic?

Have fun buddy, this is asinine.

Ghost
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:36 PM
In other words, lane-sharing is not legal, but rather not illegal in the Golden State.

When an incident occurs between the lane-sharing motorcyclist and another vehicle, it’s not always the motorcyclist who gets cited. It’s up to the LEO to decide who was at fault (back to the double-edged sword). For instance, if the lane-changing vehicle didn’t signal the change properly, that operator could be cited for violating CA code 22107. On the other hand, if the motorcyclist was deemed to be traveling at too great a speed for the situation, CA code 22350 would be used to cite the rider.


So, it's not even legal in CA, which is the only place it occurs in the USA, how, exactly, do you think it'd ever happen here?

You think local law enforcement wants another grey area to deal with? Or that any politicians who supported this wouldn't regret it the moment there's the first lawsuit?

Honestly, whether it's a good idea or not (and it's not) it'll never happen...

SloBlue
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:37 PM
Asinine? Really?

Are you sure you ride a motorcycle?

Lane sharing isn't a new concept. It has been around a long time and has worked out just fine everywhere it's tried. Why the hostility towards an idea that would benefit you if it were implemented?

Next time you are on a bicycle, and traffic comes to a stop, why don't you stop with them. Bicycles are required to "follow the same rules" as cars.

FZRguy
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:44 PM
Sometimes I'll wait in traffic on my bicycle, but usually just hop up on the sidewalk or off the road if possible. Have done that on the sumo....but that's a topic for another thread. :)

SloBlue
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:50 PM
I am absolutely astonished that I am getting mostly negative feedback on lane sharing here, on this site. I would expect a negative response on the Colorado Prius Drivers forum, where they don't have any vested interest in the issue.

But, you are right Ghost, it will never happen in Colorado if we can't even agree it's a good idea between sportbike riders. I would expect this to be the demographic that supports the idea the most, whereas HOG members probably wouldn't be as enthusiastic.

Even that, if it were true, would surprise me. What's more likely to break down in a traffic jam than a Harley?

dapper
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 10:53 PM
I support lane sharing like I support single mothers dancing on poles. :D

Sharing the two lanes with two flat bed tow trucks, is a tight fit, but do-able.

:wait:

FZRguy
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:02 PM
Well, a HD is built for a parade. :lol:

SloBlue
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:10 PM
I didn't realize that the "No longer a Virgin" thread has apparently talked this one to death. Huh.

Maybe I'll just put lane sharing and legal double-yellow passing of slow moving vehicles in the canyons on my list of other improbable fantasies like winning PowerBall.


:(

BC14
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:17 PM
I didn't realize that the "No longer a Virgin" thread has apparently talked this one to death. Huh.

Maybe I'll just put lane sharing and legal double-yellow passing of slow moving vehicles in the canyons on my list of other improbable fantasies like winning PowerBall.


:(
Yep......

laspariahs
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:20 PM
Well, I think it's just another reason for other people to hate us. I saw a guy lane splitting, eerr lane SHARING in a traffic jam on I 25 south this afternoon and all I thought was that he was retarded, selfish, douchebag, I was in a truck. If it were legal, I wouldn't do it, and would discourage it.... Most of your reasons are just about how to keep our inconvenience down, how to benefit us, not about anything that is actually beneficial to anyone else, while IMHO actually potentially hindering them, and creating more hassle for others. I bet the accident rate between motorcycles and cars would skyrocket if this actually went in to effect. Sure it might settle down after 5 years or so, but at what cost, all so a few idiots could get somewhere 15 min faster?

If you really want to benefit people find a way to keep them from rubber necking and 75% of the traffic jams in Colorado that I've seen won't even exist.

Ghost
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:21 PM
I didn't realize that the "No longer a Virgin" thread has apparently talked this one to death. Huh.

Maybe I'll just put lane sharing and legal double-yellow passing of slow moving vehicles in the canyons on my list of other improbable fantasies like winning PowerBall.


:(

Yep, it pretty much wore everyone out...

There may or may not be occasional, legitimate reasons to do both Lane Splitting and Double-Yellow Passing, and some states allow bikes to treat a Red Light like a Stop Sign if it's not changing.

But, you have to look at the larger picture, and any legislation that'll open up more options to a few road users but not all would never get the support it needs to be anything more than a dream.

Plus, again, actually instituting any new policy, especially with the uneducated drivers (and illegals without even insurance) is a recipe for disaster.

Brock Yates has been going on since the 1970s about a tiered license system, and with it the ability to prove you're more capable and thus can go faster than posted limits, and it's never been anything but a bullshit dream and a "wouldn't it be nice" idea...

So...cynical as I may seem, I'm just being a realist--it's not a great idea (too many idiots on both sides--car and bike), and it'd never be implemented even if it was...

dapper
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:39 PM
Man made laws are just that...to assist in the agenda of the topic of the writing. Lot's of man made laws are in need of updating.

Giving up because of someone's opinion is just silly.

I met a gent last week who had his last rights read to him awhile ago and he never quit. Now, he's running marathons.



"Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed?" :rock:
— Hunter S. ThompsonChanging the law to allow lane sharing for two wheeled vehicles could be looked upon as one "who has braved the storm of life".
:viking:
This glass is half full...

Ghost
Wed Jun 22nd, 2011, 11:58 PM
Man made laws are just that...to assist in the agenda of the topic of the writing. Lot's of man made laws are in need of updating.

Giving up because of someone's opinion is just silly.

I met a gent last week who had his last rights read to him awhile ago and he never quit. Now, he's running marathons.

Changing the law to allow lane sharing for two wheeled vehicles could be looked upon as one "who has braved the storm of life".
:viking:
This glass is half full...

You can also piss into the wind and think it's raining...call it braving the storm if you want, but don't believe it...

The glass is what it is, regardless of your belief

BC14
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 12:51 AM
Man made laws are just that...to assist in the agenda of the topic of the writing. Lot's of man made laws are in need of updating.

Giving up because of someone's opinion is just silly.

I met a gent last week who had his last rights read to him awhile ago and he never quit. Now, he's running marathons.

Changing the law to allow lane sharing for two wheeled vehicles could be looked upon as one "who has braved the storm of life".
:viking:
This glass is half full...

That is not even close to what I was quoting..... but OK..... I was referencing more of "Carpe Diem" kinda thing, in different words.

The legislation will not be changed. I agree with Ghost on this one. The "wouldn't it be nice" rhetoric is sickening sometimes.

brennahm
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 06:46 AM
As a matter of fact, when I rode downtown last night I stayed with traffic, followed all rules, didn't filter forward (something I've ragged on my gf for incessantly).

Sorry we didn't bite on your idea. Just remember, you're neither the first to think of this and get nowhere, nor will you be the last. Go ahead and pursue it, but try and come up with some reasonable arguments first.

pauliep
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 07:09 AM
Why should your arguments be taken seriously when you, early on, start them with, "2. It is really, really stupid to sit in traffic on a motorcycle" and then conclude with the same, poor argument. Is that how your conversation with the Senator went? So what was 10 "good" reasons, are actually 8 now.

Bueller
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 07:37 AM
:lol: @ most of the "reasoning"

:horse: @ the thread in general

spideyrdr
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 08:44 AM
"California does it, why can't we?"

They also have a helmet law. Ya wanna bring that over from Cali too? I am 100% for wearing helmets, don't get me wrong. But you cannot reasonably expect a lane sharing initiative to get any traction without also considering all the other Kalifornia laws. They were kicking around the idea of requiring motorcycles to have emissions testing done, ferchristsakes!

Sorry, but saying "It works there. It will work here" is like saying universal health care works in Europe, it'll work here. That is NOT a valid way to further an argument. In many European countries they also have oppressive laws that make it so hard to buy a house that it's not uncommon to see 3 generations living in the same house - would we want THAT imported from Europe too? I hope not.

I wouldn't favor a lane splitting law here because I already read too many stories about motorcyclists getting killed. Lane splitting is just unsafe by nature - you're going past people who are listening to NPR, putting on makeup, smacking the kid in the back seat, and sipping on a Starbucks while sending off a text message. They are NOT looking for motorcycles in front of them, behind them, in the lane next to them, and they sure as hell won't be looking out for a motorcycle passing BETWEEN lanes.

vort3xr6
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 08:48 AM
I <3 lane sharing.

CaptGoodvibes
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:04 AM
Lane splitting is survivable.

There, I said it. :viking:

Zach929rr
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:09 AM
I never have and wouldn't:

lane split
lane share
pass in the breakdown lane
pass on a double yellow
speed
filter
wheelie
stoppie
back it in
crash
ride without mirrors
ride a dirty bike
ride on the sidewalk
ride on peoples lawns
ride on a golf course

Vellos
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:17 AM
I never have and wouldn't:

lane split
lane share
pass in the breakdown lane
pass on a double yellow
speed
filter
wheelie
stoppie
back it in
crash
ride without mirrors
ride a dirty bike
ride on the sidewalk
ride on peoples lawns
ride on a golf course

:imwithstupid:

Yep, I got a motorcycle for the gas mileage and safety features.

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:23 AM
I never have and wouldn't:

lane split
lane share
pass in the breakdown lane
pass on a double yellow
speed
filter
wheelie
stoppie
back it in
crash
ride without mirrors
ride a dirty bike
ride on the sidewalk
ride on peoples lawns
ride on a golf course

Doesn't matter how many laws you break, the point of the OP is that he wants to make it Legal to do it--and that's never happening.

Vellos
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:25 AM
The people willing to do it probably don't care that it's illegal. :dunno:

Bueller
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:27 AM
The people willing to do it probably don't care that it's illegal. :dunno:

Wrong

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:29 AM
First, why would you subscribe so heavily to an idea that several very experienced riders insist is a bad, bad course of action? Every time I've come to the CSC looking for good advice, I've found it. (Dana's insistence on going stunting after downing 15 jello shots not-withstanding ;)) Listen to these guys.

Second, if you really insist on travelling this path, drop California out of all your arguments. Just because it supposedly works there doesn't mean it can here, and I think you hurt your case every time you mention the "C" word.

Alot of native coloradoans actually have a deep seated animosity towards everything Californian or Texan. We blame them for moving into our state in droves during the nineties, congesting the roads, ballooning the brown cloud over the city and driving the cost of everything up.

Back in the seventies, Colorado had a chance to compete to host the winter Olympics here. A public referendum failed to pass because we wanted to avoid the influx of people and problems into our state. Years later, mayor Pena and Gov Romer finally got enough of a kickback from the tech industry that they sold us out, made deals to attract Californian and Texan tech companies to relocate here, built an airport we didn't need (and voted against), and since then, we've watched our cost of living skyrocket while our standard of living has, on average, gotten worse.

Oh and... Before all these pricks moved into our state, there was no need for lane splitting. A bad traffic jam was one that slowed you down for 10-15 minutes. Now that's just an average commute into the city on any weekday morning.

You want ease congestion and make the road safer? Make the D.L. requirements/testing harder.

SloBlue
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:34 AM
When I was talking to the Senator I know, he was a bit dubious of my reasoning on double yellow passes. I think if it's ok for cars to cross the double yellow to go around bicycles, then it is no less safe for a motorcycle to go around a pack of Harley's or a motorhome in the canyons when they are traveling under the speed limit and there is enough room for the second or two I need to pass.

That said, he did seem open to the idea of lane sharing, but only if motorcyclists generally would support the idea. It's kind of like allowing home modification of semiautomatic weapons for full-auto use. Why should the politician waste his time if gun owners themselves couldn't even support the idea. I'm not using the metaphor too literally, so don't go all evil on me. It's just the point that we, the cyclists can't even agree on a COMMON SENSE idea.

Zach929rr
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:36 AM
It's kind of like allowing home modification of semiautomatic weapons for full-auto use.

You're absolutely right.

It's illegal.

Not a lot of people do it.

If you do it, you don't fucking tell people about it.

It's liable to get you injured or worse.

FWIW I ride how I like, regardless of the laws. inb4 Chris's "zomg you think you are above ze law!?"

SloBlue
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:38 AM
I'm not using the metaphor too literally, so don't go all evil on me.

:)

Zach929rr
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:39 AM
Instead of wasting time on this, I vote we investigate why so many people on this board start their name with "Slo".

SloBlue
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:41 AM
Instead of wasting time on this, I vote we investigate why so many people on this board start their name with "Slo".

Lack of creativity at the instant of submitting a screen name, I guess! I think I'll go ride my bicycle.

Zach929rr
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:42 AM
Back to wasting my life away writing regulatory compliance documents for FERC.

:(

THoward
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:45 AM
As a few of you have said, this is an issue we have looked into before..actually for several years. It won't pass in Colorado. Colorado Legislature does not want CO like CA. HOG riders would most definitely be interested in lane sharing because their bikes overheat in traffic. CO drivers would make sure you didn't pass them. One thing all of us need to remember, be careful what we ask for. Lane sharing will open up a can of worms for a plethora of laws placed on motorcyclists. Helmet law being number one, emissions testing, banning of after-market pipes, and an increase in taxes to pay for LEO's to uphold all the laws. While I am not opposed to wearing a helmet, I am sick and tired of the Government telling me how to live my life. On a personal note...a few years ago I was on my way back from a ride up to Breckenridge, a ton of bikes out that day, and most of you know what I-70 looks like on a Sunday afternoon. One guy decided to lane share...he made it past 5 cars. The 6th car opened his door on the motorcyclist, he did not hit the bike because the rider swerved...however, the rider hit another car. There wasn't much damage done and the rider was ok. Police did not issue any tickets. I am not sure why one wasn't issued, but I feel the driver that opened his door should have been ticketed. There are no solid arguments to a Legislator why this is a good idea.

taikahn
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:47 AM
Lane sharing will open up a can of worms for a plethora of laws placed on motorcyclists. Helmet law being number one, emissions testing, banning of after-market pipes, and an increase in taxes to pay for LEO's to uphold all the laws.

Wise words IMO.



Instead of wasting time on this, I vote we investigate why so many people on this board start their name with "Slo".

I was just noticing that...

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:53 AM
You want ease congestion and make the road safer? Make the D.L. requirements/testing harder.

Or we could just send all Californians and Texans back where they came from?

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:58 AM
...If you do it, you don't fucking tell people about it...

This is probably the best advice here.

Lane splitting belongs in the same realm as DYP's and highly spirited (above the limit) riding. Do it at your own risk to life, limb, property and wallet. and don't get caught.

edj
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 09:59 AM
A friend pointed out that states with lane splitting also always have helmet laws. I do NOT favor helmet laws. I always wear my helmet on street bikes... but I also like to be able to ride my tiny little street legal dirt bikes to do errands in town (Nederland) without a helmet. Should be my choice. I respect your/my right to be a danger to your/my own stupid self.

Culturally americans don't like to be passed... and so people will invariably resent lane splitters... creating danger. Europe and Japan are clearly different... many more motorcyclists and people let you pass. Those countries also enforce much higher driving standards... you can be ticketed just for drinking a coffee while driving... so drivers are attentive.

So probably best left the way it is. We still have rednecks in colorado:)

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:01 AM
Or we could just send all Californians and Texans back where they came from?

Well yeah, ideally...
... but I also try to be a realist.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:13 AM
I'm 100% in favor of lane sharing, and making it LEGAL with limits on top speed and differential speed so a LEO could give a ticket to some asshole recklessly doing it. There's no reason not to. If it's done in a safe manner, it eases trafic congestion and lowers pollution. The caging public will need to have stiff fines and penalties for doing shit like opening doors on motorcyclists, blocking the lane, using their car as a weapon, etc.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:14 AM
Doesn't matter how many laws you break, the point of the OP is that he wants to make it Legal to do it--and that's never happening.
Never say never. I never thought weed would be on the way to legalization. ;)

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:30 AM
...It's just the point that we, the cyclists can't even agree on a COMMON SENSE idea.

Maybe it isn't really a common sense idea then, by definition.

Spooph
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:52 AM
Goodluck, even if it was legal here in CO, i ain't doing it ....however, occasionally i do ride the shoulder here in Boulder on Foothills between Arapahoe and Colorado during morning rush hour...

And that's the point, to have a legal option for it. Lol, just because the speed limit says 35mph doesn't mean you have to drive 35mph, it just means you're not allowed to drive FASTER than 35mph.....


I am absolutely astonished that I am getting mostly negative feedback on lane sharing here, on this site. I would expect a negative response on the Colorado Prius Drivers forum, where they don't have any vested interest in the issue.

But, you are right Ghost, it will never happen in Colorado if we can't even agree it's a good idea between sportbike riders. I would expect this to be the demographic that supports the idea the most, whereas HOG members probably wouldn't be as enthusiastic.

Even that, if it were true, would surprise me. What's more likely to break down in a traffic jam than a Harley?

Yea, me too.


I never have and wouldn't:

lane split
lane share
pass in the breakdown lane
pass on a double yellow
speed
filter
wheelie
stoppie
back it in
crash
ride without mirrors
ride a dirty bike
ride on the sidewalk
ride on peoples lawns
ride on a golf course

:pointlaugh::pointlaugh: - I needed that!


I'm 100% in favor of lane sharing, and making it LEGAL with limits on top speed and differential speed so a LEO could give a ticket to some asshole recklessly doing it. There's no reason not to. If it's done in a safe manner, it eases trafic congestion and lowers pollution. The caging public will need to have stiff fines and penalties for doing shit like opening doors on motorcyclists, blocking the lane, using their car as a weapon, etc.

Brilliant!

Lol, I guess some of us still have faith in the foundations of this country, and some of us have given up and are willing to acquiesce to others instructions. Somehow, eventually, I think we're all going to end up in the second group, eventually. The BS is just gonna get too thick. Let the pussification of America continue...

sloridr
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:56 AM
I never have and wouldn't:

lane split
lane share
pass in the breakdown lane
pass on a double yellow
speed
filter
wheelie
stoppie
back it in
crash
ride without mirrors
ride a dirty bike
ride on the sidewalk
ride on peoples lawns
ride on a golf course



I have never done any of the above. I always follow all laws everyday!!!

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:11 AM
... I guess some of us still have faith in the foundations of this country...

It's possible to have faith in the foundations but not the inhabitants.


and some of us have given up and are willing to acquiesce to others instructions. Somehow, eventually, I think we're all going to end up in the second group, eventually. The BS is just gonna get too thick. Let the pussification of America continue...

Choosing one's battles isn't giving up. If we could make the D.L. testing requirements along the same lines as what is required to get an international license I'd be willing to reconsider my opinion on lane sharing. Until american drivers are educated better/screened more heavily, I think the risks are raised way beyond the elevated level we already accept daily.

THoward
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:17 AM
Show me the savvy bikers! I need them to join ABATE. We have tried to pass GOOD common sense laws to no avail....and trust me, those of us that have pursued some of these laws know how to play the game. Problem is...not enough of us are willing to participate. 5 or 6 people showing up to hearings for bills isn't going to cut it. Yea we can all talk a good game, but when it comes to getting off our a**** to actually do something about it, it doesn't happen. I see it every day with our membership. Yea that's a good idea...let's do it. Then when you say are you going to help us?....well I can't I have to work that day...or I'm too busy. Americans are way to complacent.

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:24 AM
Good points, Terry.
I'm already an AMA member for many of the same reasons.
I'll join up.

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:32 AM
not that I'm at all savvy...

SloBlue
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:34 AM
Let the pussification of America continue...


Yeah! Exactly what I was thinking on my bike ride. In my experience, the most useless person at work is in charge of safety. Make sure nothing gets done. No one should have built the Hoover Dam, the Golden Gate Bridge or the Transcontinental railroad. You can't tell me that filtering through traffic at 20 mph when the cages are only going 5 to 10 is so dangerous that we can't even consider it. Come on, this is the Colorado Sportbike Club, most of the bikes we ride will do 140 or better and those of you that tell me you've NEVER done that are lying. If you ride a supermoto or dual sport, you are even more maneuverable in traffic and have even more reason to support legal lane sharing. Traffic laws are for the most part defining an illegal act because someone decided it was illegal, not an act that is morally wrong. It isn't morally wrong to get through traffic on a M/C just because the cages can't.

Spooph
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 12:11 PM
It's possible to have faith in the foundations but not the inhabitants.


Erm, the people is THE foundation of this country. Currently that foundation is rotten... There is but one way to change it....



Choosing one's battles isn't giving up.


Yes, technically it is, but I understand what you mean and do the same. Being smart enough to survive and fight another is smarter than fighting foolishly and becoming ineffective by dying, but conflicts always need an instigator, and currently, we have one, so it's merely a matter of time for organization to take place and a proper execution planned.



Until american drivers are educated better/screened more heavily, I think the risks are raised way beyond the elevated level we already accept daily.

eh, hem, and what is going to cause this to happen? We legalize lane splitting and the death rate goes up, maybe something else could change to make it safe.. OK, so we don't legalize lane splitting, but rather focus on better education and more stringent requirements on obtaining and keeping a license, and the general populace becomes safe enough on the roads for lane splitting to safer... This applies to any change. Identify the goal, design a plan, and execute. No matter which way around, as long as the goal isn't forgotten, with enough perseverance, it will be reached. LOL, I know I'm dreaming and being a douche here, and I don't mean to attack you personally, but more so the apathetic/non-willing attitude which you present. If we, in the CSC can't agree on something, how can we agree to work on something much greater than ourselves? I'm saying the same as this:
| |
VV


Show me the savvy bikers! I need them to join ABATE. We have tried to pass GOOD common sense laws to no avail....and trust me, those of us that have pursued some of these laws know how to play the game. Problem is...not enough of us are willing to participate. 5 or 6 people showing up to hearings for bills isn't going to cut it. Yea we can all talk a good game, but when it comes to getting off our a**** to actually do something about it, it doesn't happen. I see it every day with our membership. Yea that's a good idea...let's do it. Then when you say are you going to help us?....well I can't I have to work that day...or I'm too busy. Americans are way to complacent.

^^^^

Good points, Terry.
I'm already an AMA member for many of the same reasons.
I'll join up.

Good on ya! :bow:I think more people need to take your lead. 8) Yes, I know you're the same person as I replied to above. I do not see my responses as inconsistent.

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 01:26 PM
Well yeah, ideally...
... but I also try to be a realist.

This is no thread for realism...

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:25 PM
... I don't mean to attack you personally, but more so the apathetic/non-willing attitude which you present. ...

Spooph, I don't take it as a personal attack. This is democratic debate as our forefathers could have scarcely dreamed about. No hard feelings, bro.

I contest the perception that I'm apathetic though. I chime in on these topics because of my desire to improve our society. I think that until we create a culture that celebrates personal responsibility and mutual and self respect, our best efforts are aimed at keeping those who don't, off our roadways.

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:27 PM
This is no thread for realism...

You, sir, are correct.
My mistake.
:lol:

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:34 PM
You, sir, are correct.
My mistake.
:lol:

No worries, just keep the dreaming to a minimum teh interwebz is srs bizness. ;)

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:38 PM
So, it's not even legal in CA, which is the only place it occurs in the USA, how, exactly, do you think it'd ever happen here?

You think local law enforcement wants another grey area to deal with? Or that any politicians who supported this wouldn't regret it the moment there's the first lawsuit?

Honestly, whether it's a good idea or not (and it's not) it'll never happen...

This IS a free a country. In the US, you don't require permission saying, "you're allowed" to do something. We have laws that restrict your freedoms and for clarification, some laws will specify what you are allowed to do or to prevent law enforcement from restricting your rights.

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:41 PM
This IS a free a country. In the US, you don't require permission saying, "you're allowed" to do something. We have laws that restrict your freedoms and for clarification, some laws will specify what you are allowed to do or to prevent law enforcement from restricting your rights.

So you're free to lane split? Go try it and tell me the results when a cop sees you doing it...

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:45 PM
So you're free to lane split? Go try it and tell me the results when a cop sees you doing it...

No, as I recall, CO law specifies that sharing a lane with another vehicle is illegal. Don't remember the exact verbiage but something to the effect that sharing with another bike with the driver's consent IS legal.

My point is, if there isn't a law forbiding an action or behavior, then you ARE legal because this is a free country. You don't need permission to live your life here.

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:50 PM
unfortunately, it's to the point now where we have so many laws that some behavior of yours is bound to offend the sensibilities of another being and fall under some illegality.

So the LEO writes you up for "reckless driving" as an example of an all encompassing catch all "law" and the reason we start needing our rights spelled out in the law books. It's to the point where, if the law doesn't specifically give you permission, you'll be in front of a judge defending your rights and actions.

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 02:58 PM
My point is, if there isn't a law forbiding an action or behavior, then you ARE legal because this is a free country. You don't need permission to live your life here.

Only in the vaguest sense are you "free" in any country, it's the nature of communal living and social contracts.

If you were to list every single restriction on the national, state and local levels, I think you'd be surprised at just what's still permitted and what isn't.

But, yes, in theory you can do anything not expressly or implicitly prohibited, however when you're talking about actions on the road that's a pretty controlled/regulated/restricted sphere of activities.

Remember driving is a privilege, not a right, and you're only free to do it as long as you abide by the rules...which are restrictions. Restrictions regulate everything from what can be on the road legally, to how you must operate the vehicle, to who has right of way and every other tiny thing that most of us probably aren't fully aware of since we can't memorize every single law that probably does affect us even without our knowing about it.

And the action that this thread's about is clearly illegal/not free to participate in...so I kinda miss your point about not needing permission, when, clearly, you do need permission for most things riding/driving related...

Which is why I think vague talk of "freedoms" is pointless in the abstract, as it's really only in the particular that it becomes relevant or important...

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:00 PM
unfortunately, it's to the point now where we have so many laws that some behavior of yours is bound to offend the sensibilities of another being and fall under some illegality.

So the LEO writes you up for "reckless driving" as an example of an all encompassing catch all "law" and the reason we start needing our rights spelled out in the law books. It's to the point where, if the law doesn't specifically give you permission, you'll be in front of a judge defending your rights and actions.

Right, exactly my point--while we may have the theoretical "right" to not be interfered with, it's all interpretation, and typically it'll now be interpreted *against* you in any way possible.

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:11 PM
the same type of thing happens often with gun rights. Many states do not have laws forbidding, or protecting, open carry. So people open carry, scare the sheep, get a disturbing the peace citation, and go to court.

But at the end of the day, it is still a free country and if you aren't willing to fight for your rights and stand up for them from time to time - then you better not include yourself in the crowd that bitches when they're gone. Which also goes to Abate's point - people need to show up and be active in legislation instead of watching it on the 10pm news.

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:20 PM
And the action that this thread's about is clearly illegal/not free to participate in...so I kinda miss your point about not needing permission, when, clearly, you do need permission for most things riding/driving related...


What color shirt do I need to wear while riding? The law doesn't say that I can wear a black leather coat instead of a high visibility yellow jacket.

So by your logic and statement at the beginning of this thread: The law doesn't say I can wear a black jacket and thus it's illegal.

I don't need permission to wear what I want - until someone passes a law to the contrary. And MY point is, as a society we need to quit looking to the law for permission or we'll have no freedom.

If a state does not have a helmet law, does that make helmets illegal or not wearing them illegal.

man, I wish someone would come tell me how to live!

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:25 PM
But at the end of the day, it is still a free country and if you aren't willing to fight for your rights and stand up for them from time to time - then you better not include yourself in the crowd that bitches when they're gone. Which also goes to Abate's point - people need to show up and be active in legislation instead of watching it on the 10pm news.

It is similar to gun rights, but gun ownership at least has it's own proviso in the 2nd Amendment, so it has more ability to defend itself.

As we've seen in everything from motorcycle rights to lawsuits by the RIAA to Issue 'X' of your choice, in most areas unless it has an Amendment to rely upon, it's probably up for grabs.

As to fighting for your rights...it's often a case where they're gone before you can do anything about it, and trying to get a "right" back after it's gone is far, far harder than defending it while it's still in effect.

But, again, that's how it all goes--not every piece of legislation is passed before every citizen's eyes to see before it goes into effect, so it's often too little too late--despite whatever fight you may want to put up...

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:28 PM
What color shirt do I need to wear while riding?

So that's "Freedom" to you, eh? You can pick your shirt and wear your Wonder Woman underoos and bask in it?

Then, I guess by your weak definition you are FREE to do anything you want--as long as it's minor, inconsequential, and of no real importance to anything.

Bravo for reducing the argument over rights/freedoms to something so trivial.

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:30 PM
But, again, that's how it all goes--not every piece of legislation is passed before every citizen's eyes to see before it goes into effect, so it's often too little too late--despite whatever fight you may want to put up...

The citizens or those voting on them....

http://rlv.zcache.com/read_the_bill_poster-p228923538902801109trma_400.jpg

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:32 PM
So that's "Freedom" to you, eh? You can pick your shirt and wear your Wonder Woman underoos and bask in it?

Then, I guess by your weak definition you are FREE to do anything you want--as long as it's minor, inconsequential, and of no real importance to anything.

Bravo for reducing the argument over rights/freedoms to something so trivial.

Don't try to turn this argument around on me - you are the one who said that if an action isn't specified in law, then it's illegal. I'm only trying to simplify the absurdity of that statement into terms you can understand while ruffling your feathers.

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:33 PM
The citizens or those voting on them....


Both, really. Few of our politicians read the entire Patriot Act, fewer read anything else they're not actively pushing--and if they don't then it doesn't matter if we do or not since we're not the ones with the power to do anything about any of it (except write protest letters to our congressmen after it's all too late--and they don't care anyway unless the letter is tied to a large campaign contribution).

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:39 PM
Don't try to turn this argument around on me - you are the one who said that if an action isn't specified in law, then it's illegal. I'm only trying to simplify the absurdity of that statement into terms you can understand while ruffling your feathers.

That's your twist, not mine.

I said (essentially) that due to "mission creep" the Cops are now interpreting laws instead of merely enforcing them, and that since there's very little oversight they can enforce them as they see fit--just like it's up to them to decide if you're being reckless and when you're not and it's all a relatively grey area.

Thus, your "freedoms" are restricted in reality by interpretation far more so than they are in theory where we're all "free" as long as we don't violate some specific law--and even that's an intangible freedom at best.

TinkerinWstuff
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:43 PM
That's your twist, not mine.

I said (essentially) that due to "mission creep" the Cops are now interpreting laws instead of merely enforcing them, and that since there's very little oversight they can enforce them as they see fit--just like it's up to them to decide if you're being reckless and when you're not and it's all a relatively grey area.

Thus, your "freedoms" are restricted in reality by interpretation far more so than they are in theory where we're all "free" as long as we don't violate some specific law--and even that's an intangible freedom at best.

^^this we agree. But I'm willing to fight through the interpretation and use my day in court. I also refuse to see government as my caretaker or permission giver.

It's been an enjoyable discussion, I best get some work done.

I support lane splitting if people are not an asshat. Now we just have to figure out how to define asshat and who's interpretation will be accepted.

Ghost
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 03:46 PM
I also refuse to see government as my caretaker or permission giver.

It's been an enjoyable discussion, I best get some work done.

I support lane splitting if people are not an asshat. Now we just have to figure out how to define asshat and who's interpretation will be accepted.

Regardless, it's still the Enforcer, and it has all the power.

Yep, have fun.

And there's the rub--and the core of any problem.

Devaclis
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 04:26 PM
First, why would you subscribe so heavily to an idea that several very experienced riders insist is a bad, bad course of action? Every time I've come to the CSC looking for good advice, I've found it. (Dana's insistence on going stunting after downing 15 jello shots not-withstanding ;)) Listen to these guys.

Great, now I am in a partying mood.

cptschlongenheimer
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 05:12 PM
:spit:
Sorry didn't mean to change your plans for tonight....
:lol:

Darth Do'Urden
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 10:33 PM
All the naysayers just want to mindlessly repeat the mantra of "cagers ain't smart enough to learn to adapt to lane sharing, therefore ya'll's a bunch o' idiots for even thinkin' it, uh huh." Whatever. Lane-sharing/splitting/filtering-forward absolutely CAN be done intelligently and safely--no, not at 60mph--and the stupid cagers CAN (and will if forced to) adapt to the law just like anything else.

I'm not asking that everyone practice lane-sharing...only to support allowing us that wish to the freedom and legality to do so, exactly like the helmet law (or lack thereof). I think it's downright stupid to not wear a helmet at all times on a bike, but I don't want a law to be enacted requiring it, because I also believe in letting people live the way they want. And that's all we who support lane-sharing are asking for...the freedom to CHOOSE. And anyone who claims that the practice could prove to be a hindrance to cars is just grasping as straws. There's no legitimate scenario I can fathom in which me carefully and slowly picking my way through traffic hinders ANYONE ELSE--if anything the act actually reduces congestion and helps out EVERYONE...even the jackass cagers who thinks it's "unfair".

So there--another voice in support of lane-sharing. Also...Terry, you let me know via PM when and where to be regarding legislation of motorcycle laws and I'll take off work to be there to help support it (my job is ridiculously flexible).

And P.S.
I'm not a Texan, but I did just move from there back in January. It's a wonderful state to leave. And that's the great thing about this country...you high-and-mighty "native Coloradans" (your ancestors were unwanted at one point, too, unless you're full-blood Native American...yeah, that's what I thought) aren't imbued with the power to keep the rest of the country out, for which I am personally thankful, because I love this state and deeply cherish the opportunity that arose to allow me to live here. And from what I can tell, your DL looks just like mine, as I've never been asked what my "native state" is.

CaptGoodvibes
Thu Jun 23rd, 2011, 11:43 PM
I don't have a native state. I was born in a district. :/

Fwiw, I have a bit of experience lane sharing in congested situations. I am for it if the cagers can be edumicated. The penalty for failure going 25 and rebounding at an angle of a car door is far less than a front tire flat going 100mph. I'm just sayin'

stubbicatt
Fri Jun 24th, 2011, 06:25 AM
I'd be in favor of this change.

Bueller
Fri Jun 24th, 2011, 06:45 AM
The arguments "for" can't even sell the choir, good luck with the general public, since that is who you should be trying to sell.

cptschlongenheimer
Fri Jun 24th, 2011, 08:29 AM
And P.S.
I'm not a Texan, but I did just move from there back in January. It's a wonderful state to leave. And that's the great thing about this country...you high-and-mighty "native Coloradans" (your ancestors were unwanted at one point, too, unless you're full-blood Native American...yeah, that's what I thought) aren't imbued with the power to keep the rest of the country out, for which I am personally thankful, because I love this state and deeply cherish the opportunity that arose to allow me to live here. And from what I can tell, your DL looks just like mine, as I've never been asked what my "native state" is.

You're right my grandparents got off a boat and I don't presume the ability to tell anyone where to live. I just think that you are hurting your cause every time you use the "California does it" argument. I know it's a form of racism and it makes me a hypocrite. It's kinda like when the rest of the country says "Blame Canada" Coloradoans are thinking "Blame California"

We know it's not the Californians' fault, we place the blame with Romer and Pena. But the license plates are the reminder that our politicians sold us out for a couple million in kickbacks and if you want your issue to garner support, you will need a different argument.

While we're at it:
[QUOTE=Darth Do'Urden;580424]..only to support allowing us that wish to the freedom and legality to do so...[\QUOTE]

How about some evidence that it increases safety for anyone, or that it reduces congestion. Conduct/gather/cite scientific studies that show reduced m/c crash rates (even if it's only rear enders) in states/countries that allow it vs. ones who don't.
(and you don't have to mention names)

If lane sharing is to gain support and acceptance here it will have to be on it's own merits.

Spooph
Fri Jun 24th, 2011, 10:09 AM
I contest the perception that I'm apathetic though. I chime in on these topics because of my desire to improve our society. I think that until we create a culture that celebrates personal responsibility and mutual and self respect, our best efforts are aimed at keeping those who don't, off our roadways.

OK, that's fair, I'll take that back. I'm not sure which word I would pick then but I was essentially going for this:

Darth O' Duren: All the naysayers just want to mindlessly repeat the mantra of "cagers ain't smart enough to learn to adapt to lane sharing, therefore ya'll's a bunch o' idiots for even thinkin' it, uh huh."

Gosh, I wish I had the time to find some statistics on this, lol, I guess I'm in the same boat as you, because even though I support the idea, I'm not willing to put in the work to make it happen.... :no: I'm such a damn hypocrite!

Bueller
Fri Jun 24th, 2011, 10:26 AM
I guess I'm in the same boat as you, because even though I support the idea, I'm not willing to put in the work to make it happen.... :no: I'm such a damn hypocrite!

No, just prioritizing by importance or feasibility.

stubbicatt
Sat Jun 25th, 2011, 07:30 AM
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl655/dl665mcycle.pdf I found this on the subject of lane sharing. I'm not so sure it is legal in Cali.

DevilsTonic
Sat Jun 25th, 2011, 08:21 AM
I'm in favor and would support and sign any petition to get it passed.

SloBlue
Sat Jun 25th, 2011, 08:57 AM
My son and I trailered our XR's through Denver to go ride the at Rampart Range on Thursday. Pretty cool, I've never been there before. Anyway, on the way back, traffic was STOPPED almost all the way through Denver. I was near a rider on an RC51 for a lot of that time. I looked at the 8 or 10 ft. gap in between the parked cars and it just seemed so very stupid for the RC51 to sit there, slipping the clutch, heating, dragging his feet and adding one more vehicle to the congestion. I tried to articulate to myself why lane sharing would be bad from the point of view of a motorcycle rider who opposes the idea.

1. It's a bad idea. (not really a reason, but it's the first thing said)

2. "the Man" doesn't say it's ok, so it must be bad.

3. I'm scared to do it.

4. I'd feel inferior and humiliated if I was sitting in traffic on my motorcycle and you passed me on your motorcycle lane sharing.

5. Car drivers might not like me.

6. Car drivers are stupid and distracted and have an average IQ of 25.

7. I don't want to, so you shouldn't be able to.

8. It's not fair, everyone should have to sit in traffic jams

9. I chose to ride a motorcycle so I should just have to endure any unpleasantness that arises while riding it.

10. It's what they do in California and I hate California, so it must be bad.


So, there's my best shot at the top ten reasons some of you oppose lane sharing in Colorado. If you match up the two lists, side by side, sure you may find some repetition on either list. But go deeper. I think the the list against is mostly emotional and fear based. If that's how you make your decisions, I guess that's your DNA, but I've been riding motorcycles all my life and many of the "against" reasons are the same things non-riders say to me when they're trying to tell me riding my motorcycle is too dangerous and I should stop.

THoward
Sat Jun 25th, 2011, 10:19 AM
From an ex CA highway patrol motorcycle officer friend: "Lane splitting in California is legal in many circumstances, but not in all circumstances, so whether a biker is cited for illegal lane splitting in California has as much to do with what kind of mood a police officer is in as it does with the realities of lane splitting law. It is open to interpretation by the Officers. The law states lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner. Most officers feel that traveling over 25 or 5 faster than traffic is unsafe. I rode through stop and go traffic every day on a motorcycle and I hate to say it but I would feel that if you were going 35-40 mph and the other traffic was stopped or at 5mph it was unsafe. Lane splitting law is one of the greyest areas of ambiguity in modern laws that govern the safe use of vehicles, so there is a lot of confusion about the lane splitting law among driver, motorcycle riders, and even among lawyers and other law professionals."

No disrespect to the LEO's in CO...but I could see a lot of tickets generated even if it were legal.

Darth Do'Urden
Sat Jun 25th, 2011, 11:02 AM
From an ex CA highway patrol motorcycle officer friend: "Lane splitting in California is legal in many circumstances, but not in all circumstances, so whether a biker is cited for illegal lane splitting in California has as much to do with what kind of mood a police officer is in as it does with the realities of lane splitting law. It is open to interpretation by the Officers. The law states lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner. Most officers feel that traveling over 25 or 5 faster than traffic is unsafe. I rode through stop and go traffic every day on a motorcycle and I hate to say it but I would feel that if you were going 35-40 mph and the other traffic was stopped or at 5mph it was unsafe. Lane splitting law is one of the greyest areas of ambiguity in modern laws that govern the safe use of vehicles, so there is a lot of confusion about the lane splitting law among driver, motorcycle riders, and even among lawyers and other law professionals."

No disrespect to the LEO's in CO...but I could see a lot of tickets generated even if it were legal.

Just as in CA, it would be incumbent on the biker to make sure he/she was lane-splitting in a safe manner, ie. only 5 (10 max) mph faster than the stopped/extremely slow traffic. This isn't friggin' open-heart surgery, even with the caveat that it's at the "discretion of the police officer". The idea of lane-splitting isn't so that on my bike I can blow past all the "suckers" in their cages. It's so that I can simply continue to make progress in heavy stop-and-go traffic to keep my bike engine cooled off, ME cooled off, and prevent being rear-ended by some idiot on her cell phone (same with filtering forward).

But because there's potential for the law to be abused/broken and therefore people getting tickets, we should NOT enact the law? Yet we're well on our way towards legalizing marijuana (in the state, if not the entire country soon enough)...the logic just baffles me.

And as for a "study" on congestion reduction: absolutely no need. The very idea speaks for itself. If there are 20 bikes stuck in a traffic jam and just 5 of them choose to lane-split, then that's 5 fewer CARS taking up room (that's right, CARS, because even with our fractionally smaller size we still take up a car length in traffic). It's impossible for congestion to NOT improve. But honestly, what would be even safer and make more sense would be to allow motorcycles to use the shoulders in heavy congested traffic.

THoward
Sat Jun 25th, 2011, 12:03 PM
I don't disagree with you. There will always be those that abuse the law and that doesn't mean it shouldn't be pursued. One of my favorite former State Senators used to say "you can't legislate stupidity". When you pursue a law however, there is a lot to consider and there should be as little gray area as possible. I see nothing wrong with a bike taking the shoulder in heavy traffic. Makes more sense to me than going through cars.

SloBlue
Sat Jun 25th, 2011, 12:19 PM
I see nothing wrong with a bike taking the shoulder in heavy traffic. Makes more sense to me than going through cars.

A bit of wisdom from the middle! A compromise! Great, I'll take it. :bananna:

Rocket01
Thu May 24th, 2012, 02:22 AM
Looks like I'm one year late on this discussion, but I just moved to CO. I grew up in California and LOVED lane sharing. Every time I go back and ride, I get spoiled by being able to move through stopped traffic. We totally need lane sharing here. I tried riding my bike from Centennial to Westminster the other day (around 5pm), and I will probably never do that again. The bike was overheating, my hand was getting cramped from holding the clutch for an hour, and I was frustrated from not being able to simply drive through stopped traffic. Denver traffic can totally benefit from lane sharing, since I think it would draw out all the motorcycle riders for daily commute.

DemonRider
Thu May 24th, 2012, 08:46 AM
from what i hear, most Colorado Drivers are from California anyway ?? LOL


@ Rocket - My Wife makes that trip every weekday, sucks for sure, takes 1-1.5 hours to get home most days :(....

With the congestion we have been getting and lets face it, it has been getting hotter here in Colorado.. This might be something that needs to be visited soon.. But until then... lets just say,, well never mind (Public Forum and all)

oh and I'm from Cali myself, didn't ride on a normal bases but did take the bike on a recent visit out there My mom rode on the back on day when we hit heavy traffic and she was the one who told me; "just go between those cars!" hahahahah

Sully
Thu May 24th, 2012, 09:05 AM
I see nothing wrong with a bike taking the shoulder in heavy traffic. Makes more sense to me than going through cars.

I totally agree with you, Terry! :up:

Ghosty
Thu May 24th, 2012, 09:12 AM
Except when the shoulder has the nasty remnants of semi-truck tires sitting there ready to kill you. Plus tons of other debris/sand. But if clear, I agree on it being safer than white-lining.

Colorado drivers are too stupid to handle lane-sharing, they'd kill a motorcyclist everyday I'm sure. I'm afraid to test the waters. They're all idiots out there.

CaneZach
Thu May 24th, 2012, 09:37 AM
I didn't wade through the last five pages, but here's my primary reason to object to lane-sharing:

THE AVERAGE COLORADO DRIVER IS A COMPLETE MORON!

What makes it worse is knowing that if the AVERAGE driver is a moron, half of them are even below that standard. I'm approaching a traffic light yesterday and I'm getting into the left turn lane. There is already a minivan in the left turn lane, so as I'm slowing down behind them, our light turns green. Instead of making a left, the genius decides he really wanted to make a right, so he throws himself across two "through" lanes and a right turn lane. And you want to ride within two feet of these people???

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The average driver in Colorado focuses on a 20' x 10' field ahead of them. 20' ahead and 10' wide. If you're next to them, you don't exist. If you're behind them, you don't exist. If you're 21' ahead, you don't exist. We've all been cut off or pushed onto the shoulder because some idiot didn't look before they changed lanes. To make matters worse, they're not only oblivious, but they are completely self-absorbed, so not only do other drivers or riders not exist, they don't even care if you do exist. There is no such thing as "common courtesy" in Colorado, mainly because most people here are completely self-absorbed.

They are also completely ignorant of basic traffic laws, so even if it was legal, you can be certain they wouldn't care enough to know if it was. They ABSOLUTELY WILL run into/over a motorcyclist without giving it a second thought.

Ghosty
Thu May 24th, 2012, 09:47 AM
Have you noticed that 90% of morons, I mean drivers here are ON THEIR CELLPHONE CONSTANTLY? It's scary, they're seriously carrying on ENTIRE CONVERSTATIONS while driving, highway OR city. Eff white-lining, no thanks!

Use a headset or speakerphone at least idiots, PLEASE!

Ghost
Thu May 24th, 2012, 10:35 AM
I totally agree with you, Terry! :up:

I agree as well, but most cops don't--I got a warning and almost a ticket for doing it on the I-70 East out of the mountains when it all cluster-fucks to a halt.

Jmetz
Thu May 24th, 2012, 10:57 AM
Colorado drivers are too stupid to handle lane-sharing, they'd kill a motorcyclist everyday I'm sure. I'm afraid to test the waters. They're all idiots out there.

I concur. Plus a lot of people have the "you shall not pass" complex. Last time I tried skirting traffic on the shoulder I had someone swing a car door open trying to hit me and others pulling on to the shoulder to try to stop me from getting by. Even if it were legalized I probably wouldn't do it most of the time.

Ghosty
Thu May 24th, 2012, 11:01 AM
I concur. Plus a lot of people have the "you shall not pass" complex. Last time I tried skirting traffic on the shoulder I had someone swing a car door open trying to hit me and others pulling on to the shoulder to try to stop me from getting by. Even if it were legalized I probably wouldn't do it most of the time.
Totally, even in my truck, people have that attitude 50% of the time. The other 50% (us NICE courtous non-retard drivers) let you merge. But the moron 50% all speed up, even if there is room in front for you to get in.

Now imagine that douchebag 50% seeing some (already-hated) crotch rocket about to pass them 3" from their drivers door? They'll probably open their door or try to shoot you, who knows.

The GECCO
Thu May 24th, 2012, 11:39 AM
I didn't wade through the last five pages, but here's my primary reason to object to lane-sharing:

THE AVERAGE COLORADO DRIVER IS A COMPLETE MORON!

I didn't wade through it either.

That being said, your above state reason sounds to me like a good reason for YOU to not do it. Doesn't sound like a good reason for you to favor restricting other adults ability to do it.

If lane sharing were legal, some people would, and some wouldn't. Why shouldn't we have the choice? Isn't this essentially the same argument that is made every time the topic of mandatory helmet use comes up? Right now it's legal to ride w/o a helmet. I never do, but the freedom to make the choice about taking on the additional risk of riding w/o a helmet is a great thing. Why shouldn't I have the ability to make that same choice about taking on the additional risk of lane sharing?

Ghost
Thu May 24th, 2012, 11:50 AM
I didn't wade through it either.

That being said, your above state reason sounds to me like a good reason for YOU to not do it. Doesn't sound like a good reason for you to favor restricting other adults ability to do it.

If lane sharing were legal, some people would, and some wouldn't. Why shouldn't we have the choice? Isn't this essentially the same argument that is made every time the topic of mandatory helmet use comes up? Right now it's legal to ride w/o a helmet. I never do, but the freedom to make the choice about taking on the additional risk of riding w/o a helmet is a great thing. Why shouldn't I have the ability to make that same choice about taking on the additional risk of lane sharing?

I'd do it on certain occasions--mainly when traffic is gridlocked and I could slip through.

But, I wouldn't do it when other vehicles were moving since, as CZ points out, most drivers in CO are completely useless and will kill you now, let alone when you're passing them in their blindspots.

Still, I think it should be legal since I dislike prohibitions for no good reason.

However, I doubt it'll ever matter since no one will push this through, nor fund any bill for it, etc.

We may as well be arguing over whether there ought to be Tiered Licenses and Autobahn lanes on highways--all great ideas that will never matter or come to reality.

grim
Thu May 24th, 2012, 11:58 AM
I'd do it on certain occasions--mainly when traffic is gridlocked and I could slip through.

But, I wouldn't do it when other vehicles were moving since, as CZ points out, most drivers in CO are completely useless and will kill you now, let alone when you're passing them in their blindspots.

Still, I think it should be legal since I dislike prohibitions for no good reason.

However, I doubt it'll ever matter since no one will push this through, nor fund any bill for it, etc.

We may as well be arguing over whether there ought to be Tiered Licenses and Autobahn lanes on highways--all great ideas that will never matter or come to reality.


Hey kind of like you getting to taste some grim cookies :D.

Ghost
Thu May 24th, 2012, 11:59 AM
Hey kind of like you getting to taste some grim cookies :D.

Apparently I just have to go buy a pack at Safeway, so they somehow seem far less special now...

Of course, I guess those aren't "Grim Cookies" since you didn't heat them up in the oven for me.

grim
Thu May 24th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Apparently I just have to go buy a pack at Safeway, so they somehow seem far less special now...

Of course, I guess those aren't "Grim Cookies" since you didn't heat them up in the oven for me.

Every batch baked with hate.

Sully
Thu May 24th, 2012, 12:45 PM
I concur. Plus a lot of people have the "you shall not pass" complex. Last time I tried skirting traffic on the shoulder I had someone swing a car door open trying to hit me and others pulling on to the shoulder to try to stop me from getting by. Even if it were legalized I probably wouldn't do it most of the time.

Yeah, please tell me what the F*ck their problem is? I had a major dbag on C470 in front of me (in the left lane) as I was coming home from bike night (in the car, lol) and he was going along at a decent pace (@5mph over the limit) but slowed down about 5mph.. so I look to see if there is a reason and no one is in front of him.. so I flash my lights and the Ftard touches his brakes and slows down even more.. wtf?! I get over to the right lane to pass him and he speeds up and paces the car in front of me.. ARE YOU SERIOUS?? Ok Major DBag.. the car in front of me now actually was in the left lane and moved over for this dirtbag to pass.. why couldn't he do the same for me? It finally opens up to 3 lanes (at Quebec) and I have enough room to get over to the far right and get back over 2 lanes to the far left.. DBAG tries to cut me off but his Hyundai Santa Fe didn't have enough so I get in front of him and he flashes his lights at me.. WTF, do you own the road and are you the speed limit Nazi a**hole? No one can go faster than you? F*off! GAWD I hate the way people drive sometimes! The signs say "keep right unless passing" err something like that.. :lol:

/rant.. lol


I didn't wade through it either.

That being said, your above state reason sounds to me like a good reason for YOU to not do it. Doesn't sound like a good reason for you to favor restricting other adults ability to do it.

If lane sharing were legal, some people would, and some wouldn't. Why shouldn't we have the choice? Isn't this essentially the same argument that is made every time the topic of mandatory helmet use comes up? Right now it's legal to ride w/o a helmet. I never do, but the freedom to make the choice about taking on the additional risk of riding w/o a helmet is a great thing. Why shouldn't I have the ability to make that same choice about taking on the additional risk of lane sharing?

I agree, I would like the choice to do this, although I am more inclined to surf the shoulder rather than roll between idiots who aren't paying attention..

Jmetz
Thu May 24th, 2012, 12:59 PM
Yeah, please tell me what the F*ck their problem is? I had a major dbag on C470 in front of me (in the left lane) as I was coming home from bike night (in the car, lol) and he was going along at a decent pace (@5mph over the limit) but slowed down about 5mph.. so I look to see if there is a reason and no one is in front of him.. so I flash my lights and the Ftard touches his brakes and slows down even more.. wtf?! I get over to the right lane to pass him and he speeds up and paces the car in front of me.. ARE YOU SERIOUS?? Ok Major DBag.. the car in front of me now actually was in the left lane and moved over for this dirtbag to pass.. why couldn't he do the same for me? It finally opens up to 3 lanes (at Quebec) and I have enough room to get over to the far right and get back over 2 lanes to the far left.. DBAG tries to cut me off but his Hyundai Santa Fe didn't have enough so I get in front of him and he flashes his lights at me.. WTF, do you own the road and are you the speed limit Nazi a**hole? No one can go faster than you? F*off! GAWD I hate the way people drive sometimes! The signs say "keep right unless passing" err something like that.. :lol:

/rant.. lol

I don't drive slow so I run into that all the time. I learned a long time ago that flashing your lights only gets that response. Apparently it's an ego destroyer to take a half second to move over and another half second to move back after being passed.

Sully
Thu May 24th, 2012, 01:10 PM
I would say that about 8 times out of 10, people will move over on their own, because they're polite and understand the rules of the road.. but the other 2 jackoffs wanna park their sh*t in front of me or flip me off as I pass them... wtf?!? SERIOUSLY move your slow ass horse wagon over jack*ss.. :eyeroll: I don't flash my lights at people that often.. if I am behind them and they don't get it that they should move over, if I can pass them on the right, I will... (yes, it's illegal, I know.. but so is speeding :devil2: ) :lol: MOOOOVE.. GET OUT DA WAY.. :D

DemonRider
Thu May 24th, 2012, 01:15 PM
I would say that about 8 times out of 10, people will move over on their own, because they're polite and understand the rules of the road..

:up: Agreed. But I guess the numbers depends on how aggressive of a driver you are from the start. :)

To the other Two :doublefinger:

I am also not saying I would "Share Lanes" all the time, but in those moments; It would be nice for there to be an option to get then F*** outta the way. But hey, until that day arrives, I'll keep doing what i'm doing:bananna::headbang:

Jmetz
Thu May 24th, 2012, 01:27 PM
IME it's the other way around. 9 out of 10 won't get the eff out of the way.

Ghost
Thu May 24th, 2012, 01:33 PM
IME it's the other way around. 9 out of 10 won't get the eff out of the way.

Yep. If there's a courteous driver out there, they must be a rare breed.

CBR-Cowboy
Thu May 24th, 2012, 01:47 PM
I'm pro choice, if people feel its unsafe, then they shouldn't do it. I know tons of people who think riding a bike in gen is unsafe, and wish i wouldn't do it, but it is my choice.

personally i wouldn't lane split at freeway speeds. but in a traffic jam where all the cars are standing still, i would move forward at 5 mph.
on the other hand if there was 3 cars all side by side doing 55 in a 65 and no one in front of them at all because people need to be in packs, i might if i felt it was safe.

but is just posting about it really going to do much or is there a website that we can sign up for and give our support.

It isn't our choice to sit in traffic jams if 4 cages who are busy sexting decide to have an orgy with their cars on the freeway.

It is already illegal to drive in the fast lane and not be passing someone. yet people dart straight for the fast lane and never get out until 2 seconds before their turn cutting across 3 lanes.

" For example, Colorado's "Left Lane Law" states: A person shall not drive a motor vehicle in the passing lane of a highway if the speed-limit is sixty-five miles per hour or more unless such person is passing other motor-vehicles that are in a non-passing lane" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_lane

The main problem is that they are building 3 lane HW's when they should be building 6 lanes. and make the left lane an HOV/bike lane like alot of other states.

they have spent a lot of money marking off bicycle lanes when they could just use the sidewalks. why not motorcycles. i would gladly take the sidewalk over sitting in traffic listening to my fan kick on.

Sully
Thu May 24th, 2012, 02:28 PM
IME it's the other way around. 9 out of 10 won't get the eff out of the way.

Maybe it's just because my car looks mean? :lol:... Most of those people move out of the way when I'm on the bike too... Altho, I do admit, I am a pretty aggressive driver and rider :oops: :angel:

Ghosty
Thu May 24th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Maybe it's just because my car looks mean...
What kinda car?

Sully
Thu May 24th, 2012, 03:13 PM
:lol:.. bmw... ok, maybe it's just my ugly face lookin' mean.. :mrt:

grim
Thu May 24th, 2012, 03:16 PM
:lol:.. bmw... ok, maybe it's just my ugly face lookin' mean.. :mrt:

Id high five you if i saw you in your beemer on I-25.

Sully
Thu May 24th, 2012, 03:23 PM
http://www.twowheelfemales.com/forum/images/smilies/Wootrock.gif

Slo
Thu May 24th, 2012, 03:59 PM
Being from CA I am all for lane splitting. When I was there, right on the inside cover of the Motorcycle handbook, it stated that it was not illegal but not recommended.

I would find myself following 2 wheel'd CHP or vice versa splitting lanes. Best part was not having to wait 2-3 red lights to get through an intersection. There is also a good time and bad time to split lanes.

Gets very risky if traffic is staggered, however when side by side, that is about the safest time to pass.

If it was allowed here in Colorado, I would do it, but would always be carefull doing so. CA, it was much more expected and accepted, I think things would get worse here before it got better.

Rocket01
Thu May 24th, 2012, 11:54 PM
I didn't wade through it either.

That being said, your above state reason sounds to me like a good reason for YOU to not do it. Doesn't sound like a good reason for you to favor restricting other adults ability to do it.

If lane sharing were legal, some people would, and some wouldn't. Why shouldn't we have the choice? Isn't this essentially the same argument that is made every time the topic of mandatory helmet use comes up? Right now it's legal to ride w/o a helmet. I never do, but the freedom to make the choice about taking on the additional risk of riding w/o a helmet is a great thing. Why shouldn't I have the ability to make that same choice about taking on the additional risk of lane sharing?

The Gecco has it right. It's the "freedom" to lane share when I want to. If I'm riding a bike, I've already assumed the responsibility for keeping myself safe from morons. And hey, I might die. So what? You wanna live forever?

Zanatos
Fri May 25th, 2012, 11:06 AM
Wikipedia has a pretty good write-up covering both sides of the lane splitting debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_splitting

chasemr2
Fri May 25th, 2012, 11:17 AM
If only there were more HOV lanes. As I spent 45 mins in the turn lane entering I25 from University yesterday though I was half-tempted to go around all the idiot drivers who don't know when the right time to be agressive is, like when it's the green arrow and theres 75 cars behind you, mash the damn gas pedal.
Unfortunately the over abundance of squid riders makes me think that this would be abused and never work in Colorado.

Danimal
Sat May 26th, 2012, 06:51 AM
If only there were more HOV lanes. As I spent 45 mins in the turn lane entering I25 from University yesterday though I was half-tempted to go around all the idiot drivers who don't know when the right time to be agressive is, like when it's the green arrow and theres 75 cars behind you, mash the damn gas pedal.
Unfortunately the over abundance of squid riders makes me think that this would be abused and never work in Colorado.


This makes me think of the insurance argument. If we all had to pay for the accidents that we cause out of pocket, would people drive like assholes and be as aggressive as they are? If riding required more vigilance and had other inherent risks, would people become better riders and wear safety gear? Maybe, maybe not, but you cannot legislate to protect the lowest common denominator unless you want to give up everything. There are dumb people in every facet of life that will find a way to kill themselves performing the simplest of tasks.

I am all for lane splitting, and not because I want to go zipping through traffic, but just for the exact reason outlined above. You riding up to the front will in no way impede or slow down the traffic, so I doubt that anyone would care if it were an acceptable legal practice. It might even make people envious and decide to take up riding to get around a particularly crappy commute. And that would make the commute better for everyone if enough people rode.

HOTCARCASS
Tue May 29th, 2012, 09:25 AM
There is such little room between cars to stripe ride. One little move from an adjacent car could take u out and the damage would be likely involving both cars getting split. The surprise a motorist gets when a bike splits is alarming. Probly not going to help the ani motorcycle sentiment that is so strong in Colorado. Who's fault is it if I hit a motorcycle on the stripe. My lane is my lane and nudging over the line to change lanes is common. Seems like a stupid place to put yourself on a bike, between 2 cars that may or may not see u.

TinkerinWstuff
Tue May 29th, 2012, 09:30 AM
Just got back from an extended weekend in CA with the bike.

fucking LOVED IT.

That is all.

HOTCARCASS
Tue May 29th, 2012, 09:59 AM
I see the advantages though. Sitting still on a bike SUCKS. I am curious about liability who pays when the bike gets mashed. Does it ever happen in Cali, bikes getting hit splitting? If it works there it should work anywhere.

asp_125
Tue May 29th, 2012, 10:39 AM
Had a friend in Cali who was lane splitting, and a tow truck moved over on him. Ended up grabbing onto the tow truck's fender like a cowboy wrestling a bull by the horns. Bike got totaled and he got lucky with some bumps and scrapes.

Was stuck in traffic on that HWY24 between Manitou Springs to I-15 section this weekend.. wanted soooo much to lane split.

Ghosty
Tue May 29th, 2012, 12:15 PM
Sitting still on a bike SUCKS.
Especially on an R1 in summer gridlock. Unless you don't mind sitting there while your ankles/calves slowly get burned to a crisp, lol!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/SpectralCat/Emoticons/mad2.gif

TinkerinWstuff
Tue May 29th, 2012, 01:00 PM
we all know someone who got in over their head dragging a knee on the street or riding Ludicrous Speed

But lane splitting or filtering is too dangerous

HOTCARCASS
Tue May 29th, 2012, 05:38 PM
+1 to dangerous. I take into consideration the unknown. Which is why I don't tailgate
Ridding close to cars that may or mayn't see u is different then poor line choice. Its dumb line choice. The difference is one u try to choose a good line and the other there is no way to calculate the out come. So i don't see the difference between tailgating and lane splitting. Either way u are in the cars territory. What is the procedure for a safe lane split?

TinkerinWstuff
Tue May 29th, 2012, 06:21 PM
+1 to dangerous. I take into consideration the unknown. Which is why I don't tailgate
Ridding close to cars that may or mayn't see u is different then poor line choice. Its dumb line choice. The difference is one u try to choose a good line and the other there is no way to calculate the out come. So i don't see the difference between tailgating and lane splitting. Either way u are in the cars territory. What is the procedure for a safe lane split?

The procedure is called, "your personal risk acceptance level. " like wearing helmets leather track suits or going into corners at 50 mph; your comfort level should not affect my right to choose. If you don't want to do it, then dont and leave me alone.

FZRguy
Tue May 29th, 2012, 08:10 PM
I'd be fine with it so long as traffic is at a standstill. Done the shoulder thing a couple times, and felt guilty for it.

Aaron
Tue May 29th, 2012, 10:59 PM
Considering my occupation, I imagine most of you will find it hypocritical, but I also support lane sharing. But I think it should only be allowed between the median and the #1 lane. Hardly any danger from cars, just road debris.

krod
Wed May 30th, 2012, 08:16 AM
Being from CA I am all for lane splitting. When I was there, right on the inside cover of the Motorcycle handbook, it stated that it was not illegal but not recommended.

I would find myself following 2 wheel'd CHP or vice versa splitting lanes. Best part was not having to wait 2-3 red lights to get through an intersection. There is also a good time and bad time to split lanes.

Gets very risky if traffic is staggered, however when side by side, that is about the safest time to pass.

If it was allowed here in Colorado, I would do it, but would always be carefull doing so. CA, it was much more expected and accepted, I think things would get worse here before it got better.



Being from Colorado and moving to SoCal, it's strange to see it all the time. Way to many bikes take advantage of this right, the DMV book states lane splitting is legal only below 40 mph on the freeway only! I see bikes flying down I-5 lane splitting at 90 mph and cutting to the front So they don't have to wait for the light. Way to many bikers abuse the law out here. I chose not to do it seen to many cars swerve over and get pissed off.

Jmetz
Wed May 30th, 2012, 08:47 AM
Really no motorcycle should ever have to wait in traffic. Anyone that disagrees should have to sit on a motorcycle in traffic.

HR636
Wed Jun 20th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Here's the reason I'm pro lane splitting. There are many times that unattentive drivers rear end vehicles in stop and go traffic. By continuing the flow of your motorcycle during rush hour traffic you can safely split between lanes at 5mph above the speed of traffic and avoid those pockets where traffic slams to a hault and you're left hoping the vehicle behind is paying attention enough to stop. Granted I come to a stop facing towards the left or right ready to go in case a vehicle doesn't appear to be stopping, but if I could maintain a speed of 5 mph above and just split in between I'd feel much safer. Especially being on a sportbike and not having the greatest rear visibility from my mirrors.

Not only that, but drivers in front with SUV's and trucks you can't see ahead of can block you in and follow too closely to the point where you'll either have a driver pull over into your lane cause you can't get out of their blind spot or the driver behind you will run you over when the vehicle in front hard stops.

If there's one thing I can't stand on a motorcycle it's being blocked in from all sides and even if you keep 3 car lengths of space ahead vehicles will merge in front of you and close the gap.

There are rare occasions I'll illegally lane split, but it's all in favor of my own safety, and if I have to explain that to a judge so be it.

SNAFU
Wed Jun 20th, 2012, 07:47 PM
I am on both sides. I see filtering as possible high risk for riders, but being able to get in front of traffic at an intersection will get you away from cagers. Is the risk worth the reward? Ehhh for me its too close to agree. Plus like Ghost said, "it's a grey area of the law." Not legal, but tolerated. I personally steer clear of grey areas. IF anything would to be legalized, I would prefer Japan's version with the space in the front at intersections.

Matrix
Fri Aug 24th, 2012, 07:25 PM
Really no motorcycle should ever have to wait in traffic. Anyone that disagrees should have to sit on a motorcycle in traffic.

Had to cruise to the tech center today from Broomfield. F'ing BS that lane splitting isnt legal. Traffic was terrible the whole way. After riding in CA, and travelling to other countries, I am amazed at how well it works (assuming you do it when traffic is 40 or less).
If their was a petetion, I would sign it in a heart beat!

mdub
Fri Aug 24th, 2012, 07:26 PM
start it up!!

Bashed
Sat Aug 25th, 2012, 05:47 PM
the DMV book states lane splitting is legal only below 40 mph on the freeway only! I see bikes flying down I-5 lane splitting at 90 mph and cutting to the front So they don't have to wait for the light. Way to many bikers abuse the law out here. I chose not to do it seen to many cars swerve over and get pissed off.


Please back this statement up with proof.
There is no law or blurb in any DMV book that says this.
This kind of misinformation only adds to the BS.


Lane sharing. The second is that California allows lane sharing, which means that motorcycles can drive in between cars that are in a lane. Now, most motorists regard that as an insane and an illegal act by a motorcyclist. However, although not legally set forth in the law, it is not against any law. The California Highway Patrol used to have guidelines where they advised people about what was safe to do for lane sharing, but they have since taken that off of their pamphlet on motorcycling and now they just say that all you have to do is do it in a safe and prudent manner. Essentially what they're saying is that a safe and prudent manner is probably that you're not supposed to go faster than 35 miles an hour and you probably shouldn't go faster than 15 or 20 miles faster than the traffic that you're passing. Obviously, there are ways to do lane sharing that are safer than others and you should try to do that.

So even though it might have used to be in thier pamphlet, it was misinformation, just like yours.
Don't belive everything you hear on the internet, I would advise you to even goggle my information I am talking about. This way you have the correct stuff, and can educate others to the myths that surround this topic.
The law states you may lane share with another motor vehicle in a safe and prudent manner, that is all. This leaves alot open to interpretation, both from the police and the motorcyclist engaging in the behavior.
This is also the problem, and IMO should be better defined to protect all who it might affect if enacted here in Colorado.

duelist13
Mon Aug 27th, 2012, 03:46 AM
Lane sharing is nice because it gets motorcycles from point A to B faster, clears the roads for other vehicles, and encourages other drivers frustrated with sitting in traffic to consider motorcycling as a commuting alternative.

For the drivers frustrated with lane splitting: enjoy your AC/heater, crank up the radio, and enjoy the company of your fellow passengers :) my 2c

Tykho
Tue Aug 28th, 2012, 09:11 AM
I tried lane splitting before...I wouldn't do it habitually because I don't want to die. I used to do a LOT of stupid shit on sport bikes (I count lane splitting among the more dumb decisions)...and I've been in two fairly bad accidents; one caused by a F350 who forced me off the road, and the other by my own recklessness. I'm just glad I wised up after my last accident, and don't ride with a sense of entitlement or elitism anymore.

I feel that there are far too many motorcyclists who haven't been in an accident, and ride with the same attitude I used to have. There's the whole "cool factor" associated with riding motorcycles, and most newer riders, especially in Springs it seems, don't have any concept of consequences of their actions, nor do they feel they have any reason to follow traffic laws.

Aside from rider attitude and self-destruction, I honestly feel that legal lane splitting would just promote more douche-baggery, make drivers hate bikes even more, and get more people killed, needlessly. I mean, I ride, and half the riders I see irritate me and make me not want to disassociate myself from them. Additionally, your typical driver does not possess the awareness, driving skill, nor the reaction time to cope with another vehicle in close proximity to their vehicle. I mean, how many times have you seen a car having issues just maintaining their lane? I'm not blind, and I can see the clear advantages in an ideal environment, but it would be a huge mental shift and habit adjustment for your average 45 year old, who's been driving without lane splitting since they were 16.

contender
Wed Sep 12th, 2012, 01:22 PM
First Post!

I cannot fathom the hate for lane splitting. I just moved here from L.A. (don't hate, I am from West Virginia and was in HelL.A. for 5 years) and the best thing about that place is lane splitting. I almost didn't leave because I knew I would miss it. And I do. Being the last vehicle at a red light is real fun now, hoping the next person behind me sees my bike stopped. And sitting in a traffic jam is the single most asinine waste of time I now have to participate in.

I've been riding ten years now. I never felt unsafe in California; in fact I feel far less safe riding on the roads here. I think the aberrant behavior of bikes there (filtering, lane splitting) makes cars see you more, even if they're sometimes surprised. Here you have to behave like a car, and sometimes you're even more invisible because of it.

Outside of riding on the streets, though, I miss NOTHING about california.

grim
Wed Sep 12th, 2012, 01:51 PM
First Post!

I cannot fathom the hate for lane splitting. I just moved here from L.A. (don't hate, I am from West Virginia and was in HelL.A. for 5 years) and the best thing about that place is lane splitting. I almost didn't leave because I knew I would miss it. And I do. Being the last vehicle at a red light is real fun now, hoping the next person behind me sees my bike stopped. And sitting in a traffic jam is the single most asinine waste of time I now have to participate in.

I've been riding ten years now. I never felt unsafe in California; in fact I feel far less safe riding on the roads here. I think the aberrant behavior of bikes there (filtering, lane splitting) makes cars see you more, even if they're sometimes surprised. Here you have to behave like a car, and sometimes you're even more invisible because of it.

Outside of riding on the streets, though, I miss NOTHING about california.

Not even the weather?

contender
Thu Sep 13th, 2012, 02:57 PM
Not even the weather?
Not yet. I have only been here since July 1. I was spending an awful lot of vacation time here snowboarding, so I mostly know what to expect weather-wise.

TinkerinWstuff
Tue Feb 12th, 2013, 05:34 PM
RISE FROM THE DEAD OLD THREAD!!!

(evil laugh)

http://www.scpr.org/programs/airtalk/2013/02/12/30486/new-rules-for-motorcycle-lane-splitting/

DemonRider
Tue Mar 19th, 2013, 05:50 PM
Some Great info / reading :)

http://www.bikebandit.com/community/articles/california-lane-splitting-bill?WT.mc_id=2204348#.UUj5KVf76KJ

http://www.bikebandit.com/community/articles/california-motorcycle-lane-splitting#.UUj4XFf76KI


Actual California Highway Patrol Guidelines:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html