Banning Motorcycles?

[THoward]

This was quite an interesting read. There are really a lot of stupid people in this world.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/citylink/sfl-auto-erotica-its-time-to-ban-the-motorcycle-20110613,0,4414821.story

[cptschlongenheimer]

:facepalm:

[grim]

"This deathtrap, of course, is the motorcycle, and it’s time for the grownups to take a stand and say enough is enough."

Are you fucking serious???

There are so many flaws in this statement i cant even comprehend how hard this dumbass that wrote this article was dropped on their head when they were a child!

[Zach929rr]

Yeah, sorry. I can't take a writer seriously when he stills uses his aol email address as his contact email.

[dirkterrell]

It would be interesting to know what fraction of those 72/10^5 deaths were caused by someone other than the rider, i.e. inattentive car drivers. If it's more than 14/10^5, then we need to ban cars. But, 14 is too high too. All life is valuable and if we ban cars, then we save 40,000+ lives a year.

/sarcasm

[Racz]

What a schmuck. Im going to go ahead and perceive this as satire.

[Snowman]

Obviously this person was rejected by a girl would rode off on the back of some others bike...

[ghostrider_9]

I think it's pretty easy to see that this person is a complete tool who has a problem with bikes for whatever reason.

If you follow the logic that he has set forth then there are a lot of things on the list of of things we need to ban before motorcycles reach the top. Unfortunately, he has an issue and a place to post his stupid thoughts. Lucky for us, that simply posting his stupid ideas do not make them any more right.

[CaneZach]

It would be interesting to know what fraction of those 72/10^5 deaths were caused by someone other than the rider, i.e. inattentive car drivers. If it's more than 14/10^5, then we need to ban cars. But, 14 is too high too. All life is valuable and if we ban cars, then we save 40,000+ lives a year.

/sarcasm

The last study done (2009 iirc) showed 53% of MC fatalities were single-unit (as in MC only) crashes.

[dirkterrell]

What if this vehicle produced 11 percent of all driving fatalities, effectively erasing gains made from years of declining motor-vehicle deaths? Would you want to drive that vehicle? Would you want your loved ones to drive it?

I looked at the Census Bureau data here (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/transportation/motor_vehicle_accidents_and_fatalities.html), in particular the summary of fatal accidents (http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s1104.pdf). Comparing the numbers from 1990 and 2008, here's what we see

The number of people killed in passenger cars has pretty steadily decreased from 24,092 to 14,587, a decrease of 9,505. So, did motorcycle deaths "effectively erase" that improvement? Motorcycle deaths went from 3,104 to 5040, an increase of 2026. No, motorcyclist deaths do not "effectively erase" improvements in motor vehicle deaths. Not even close. Note that light trucks went from 8,601 deaths to 10,764 deaths, a 2,163 death increase, essentially the same increase as for motorcycles, and that still doesn't make up half of the improvements in cars.

[Mother Goose]

Beautiful....

askmrjesus at 1:03 PM June 22, 2011 Dear Mr. Curran,

If you are truly interested in public safety, one would think you would be more focused on the leading cause of death in this country: Obesity.

Now Hugh, I've seen your photo, and lets face it, you're a fatty pants. Your cholesterol level is much more likely to end up costing the public money, than all motorcyclists combined. We are, you see, a very small minority in the US, whereas as you, and your doughnut loving friends, are bankrupting the healthcare system, simply because you don't have the discipline to pass up a Baskin Robins every once in a while.

Of course, that also explains your problem with motorcycles. It's hard to stuff a Whopper into your saggy jowls, while riding one.

The solution seems clear: It's time to ban fat people. Specifically, fat people with online degrees in "journalism", who write articles that are meant to create controversy, rather than be of any informative value.

But wait, that would infringe on your right to stuff your face behind the wheel, while not paying attention to the road, and that, of course, is what America is all about; the freedom from personal responsibility.

I'll cut this short. It's close to lunch time, and I know the KFC down the street from your little cubby hole, has an all you can eat deal this week.

Bon Appetite.

JC

[asp_125]

Maybe we should ban stupid people. Starting with stupid journalists.

[rybo]

Put it into raw numbers and you have a whole different picture - for more people die in cars than on motorcycles each year.

The real problem here isn't the motorcycle. It's driver education (for both bikes and cars).

Better driver education = a significant decrease in traffic accidents in general.

I've participated in adventure / risk activities my whole adult (and adolecent) life. In every activity I've been a part of the highest risk participants are the "mid time" folks. Experienced enough to get into a lot of trouble - not experienced enough to either avoid it or get out of it.

This pattern has held true for all of the follwing in my experience:

1) Skydiving
2) Mountaineering
3) SCUBA
4) Climbing (rock / ice)
5) Motorcycle riding / racing

More time / experience / training = lower death rates on the road.

s

[GuitarX]

Beautiful....

askmrjesus at 1:03 PM June 22, 2011 Dear Mr. Curran,

If you are truly interested in public safety, one would think you would be more focused on the leading cause of death in this country: Obesity.

Now Hugh, I've seen your photo, and lets face it, you're a fatty pants. Your cholesterol level is much more likely to end up costing the public money, than all motorcyclists combined. We are, you see, a very small minority in the US, whereas as you, and your doughnut loving friends, are bankrupting the healthcare system, simply because you don't have the discipline to pass up a Baskin Robins every once in a while.

Of course, that also explains your problem with motorcycles. It's hard to stuff a Whopper into your saggy jowls, while riding one.

The solution seems clear: It's time to ban fat people. Specifically, fat people with online degrees in "journalism", who write articles that are meant to create controversy, rather than be of any informative value.

But wait, that would infringe on your right to stuff your face behind the wheel, while not paying attention to the road, and that, of course, is what America is all about; the freedom from personal responsibility.

I'll cut this short. It's close to lunch time, and I know the KFC down the street from your little cubby hole, has an all you can eat deal this week.

Bon Appetite.

JC

Ha! The best retort ever! Great job...

[mountbell]

I can tell you, I had bought my bike with no intention of taking a MSF course just to save dough. I did end up taking the course and I truly believe that over Memorial weekend, it save my life. I hit the HOV lanes that were open to northbound traffic, as soon as I crested that first hill there is a drunk in the lanes, going south. Because I was scanning, I was able to see him coming, and swerve to the open lane. Usually it isn't the guy or gal on the bike, it's the motorist who knows their vehicle will definitely win that confrontation.

[rfranks303]

Ignorance is bliss.

[ipuck]

WOW this guy has NO clue!

[Ninja2]

Was gonna type a reply, but the arguments used in the article are so weak - it's not even worth it... .

[Zanatos]

Put it into raw numbers and you have a whole different picture - for more people die in cars than on motorcycles each year.

The real problem here isn't the motorcycle. It's driver education (for both bikes and cars) ...

s


It still amazes me that Americans let 16-year-olds out on the road with little to no formal driver education. In Germany, a driver’s license costs over $2000 and requires a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory.

Perhaps if America adopted similar rules, drivers here would learn how to stay to the right except to pass and what it means when the vehicle behind you flashes their high beams. Who knows? If people learned how to drive properly, maybe we could even raise the speed limit a little in wide-open flat lands like Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, and Texas.

Imagine if people knew how to safely drive at Autobahn speeds on American interstate highways. It would be awesome.

[aerofaze]

Was gonna type a reply, but the arguments used in the article are so weak - it's not even worth it... .

This sad "journalist" seems to want to wallow in his ignorance and poor arguments without knowing anything about the subject. :no:

I think everyone here (and those who posted comments on his article) have already said most everything I'd want to say.

The "article" is laughable.

[Snowman]

It still amazes me that Americans let 16-year-olds out on the road with little to no formal driver education. In Germany, a driver’s license costs over $2000 and requires a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory.

Perhaps if America adopted similar rules, drivers here would learn how to stay to the right except to pass and what it means when the vehicle behind you flashes their high beams. Who knows? If people learned how to drive properly, maybe we could even raise the speed limit a little in wide-open flat lands like Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, and Texas.

Imagine if people knew how to safely drive at Autobahn speeds on American interstate highways. It would be awesome.I blame cup holders...

[Ghost]

It still amazes me that Americans let 16-year-olds out on the road with little to no formal driver education. In Germany, a driver’s license costs over $2000 and requires a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory.

Perhaps if America adopted similar rules, drivers here would learn how to stay to the right except to pass and what it means when the vehicle behind you flashes their high beams. Who knows? If people learned how to drive properly, maybe we could even raise the speed limit a little in wide-open flat lands like Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, and Texas.

Imagine if people knew how to safely drive at Autobahn speeds on American interstate highways. It would be awesome.

In Japan I had a bike just to have a bike in Japan, but I never actually needed it to get anywhere I wanted to go (cleanly and efficiently).
In my short time in Germany, I had no vehicle, and just used mass transit and got everywhere I ever needed to go (cleanly and efficiently).

Germany, like Japan and most other First World/European countries, has a clean, efficient, reliable and heavily-used mass transit system. Cars are an alternative means of transportation, but not the only one.

Thus, you can have stricter requirements, and make it more of a Privilege than a Right and it doesn't really affect anyone's ability to live their lives.

Here, by design, cars are a necessity, and Mass Transit is more of a half-hearted joke than anything resembling the infrastructures in most modern (and much smaller) countries.

Requiring $2,000 in training isn't feasible--not unless you're willing to subsidize the poor who can't afford it but need to get a license to get to work/school/daycare, etc.

If you just imposed a new requirement for $2,000 worth of training (which, I agree would improve road safety) you'd be causing more harm than good to most people who drive.

Plus you'd have to spend a whole bunch of money to design and develop the standardized testing and secure qualified trainers (who would also have to be certified--which would require more validation, and thus, more money)...

Then, as much as I would *LOVE* to have unrestricted highway speeds, think of all the various interstate regulations that THAT would entail...and the nightmare of paperwork, certification of road safety, and road maintenance/construction costs...the Autobahn is one of the world's most maintained and thus most expensive highway systems in the world--it's also strictly monitored and policed for infractions. And, even it gets congestion and clogs and idiot drivers hogging the left lane to pass someone at 2 mph more...

Again, it's a great dream, just not feasible/practical in implementation...unless we take all the $$ that goes overseas and decide to spend it here instead--and we all know that won't happen...

[cptschlongenheimer]

It still amazes me that Americans let 16-year-olds out on the road with little to no formal driver education. In Germany, a driver’s license costs over $2000 and requires a minimum of 25-45 hours of professional instruction plus 12 hours of theory.

Perhaps if America adopted similar rules, drivers here would learn how to stay to the right except to pass and what it means when the vehicle behind you flashes their high beams. Who knows? If people learned how to drive properly, maybe we could even raise the speed limit a little in wide-open flat lands like Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, and Texas.

Imagine if people knew how to safely drive at Autobahn speeds on American interstate highways. It would be awesome.

I agree.
They practically give out D.L.'s in cracker jack boxes here. If it were harder to get one, the lowest common denominator laws we have would be much easier to raise a peg or two.

[cptschlongenheimer]

Ghost makes a good point too....

Maybe there's a middle ground here?
:dunno:

[Ghost]

Ghost makes a good point too....

Maybe there's a middle ground here?
:dunno:

I think that if you want better driver training, and more of a European style of licensing and driving in general, then you'd have to improve mass transit systems.


Basically, the two are linked, Japan and Germany can require tiered licensing and mandatory training because people can still get to work without a license and without needing a car (or bike).

We have nothing like that here...if you're going to ratchet up the requirements then you have to have an alternate solution...and we don't...

In the years since the 1950s/1960s we've done nothing but drive *more* miles every year. IIRC, it's roughly 5x the mileage it was when interstates first appeared. Part of it is urban sprawl, part of it that we're all commuting father to get to work than we used to, but either way, it'd be nigh impossible to reverse that trend without some *viable* alternative...

You could require more training, but at whose expense? The state doesn't have the money to offer it for free, and the economy is killing people with $4/gallon gas, there's not much room for $2,000 just to get your license so you can drive back and forth to your three part-time jobs...

Unfortunately, I think that without both halves (training + alternative transport) you're stuck with what we've got.

Even something like a mandatory "refresher" course/test every 3-5 years would be helpful, but it's another expense and would have to be paid for somehow out of someone's budget...unless you charged the license-holder, and then you're just piling on yet another fee--which wouldn't go over well...

Again, not being *negative* just trying to be realistic...and it seems we're stuck as we are until/unless someone wants to pump a lot of money into overhauling the way every American drives and looks at car ownership and daily transportation...which...won't....happen...

[brennahm]

ANY changes made are sure to cost more...and weren't a whole bunch of people just recently complaining about paying registrations on their vehicles they felt were too high?

[cptschlongenheimer]

...Again, not being *negative* just trying to be realistic...

Someone told me once there is no thread for realism...
;)

[laspariahs]

Obviously we need mass transit in a bad way, it would solve many many issues. Though it won't happen.

Also I would have thought ridding a motorcycle was a lot more dangerous than 72/100,000. I really don't think that's very dangerous at all.

[Ghost]

ANY changes made are sure to cost more...and weren't a whole bunch of people just recently complaining about paying registrations on their vehicles they felt were too high?

Exactly.


Someone told me once there is no thread for realism...
;)

You're mixing your threads, THIS thread is all about soul-crushing realism. :p


Obviously we need mass transit in a bad way, it would solve many many issues. Though it won't happen.

Also I would have thought ridding a motorcycle was a lot more dangerous than 72/100,000. I really don't think that's very dangerous at all.

Nope, not until gas hits $10/gallon, and by then the riots in the streets will make it all moot anyway.

It's not bad unless you're one of the 72...

[Sarge]

I think the simplest way to start this whole thing would be to require "additional training" with EVERY traffic infraction. You get a ticket and BAM, mandatory re-education. Minimum 8 hour class that has to meet certain criteria and a skills test or something of the like. Obviously, make the driver pay for it if they want their driving priviledges reinstated. That way, everyone who NEEDS one can get one, but if you suck at driving you're going to get a lot more Driver's Ed that the rest of us.

[Ghost]

but if you suck at driving you're going to get a lot more Driver's Ed that the rest of us.

Yeah, but tickets don't necessarily imply you suck at driving, maybe at following posted speed limits, but that another matter entirely...

[Sarge]

Yeah, but tickets don't necessarily imply you suck at driving, maybe at following posted speed limits, but that another matter entirely...

You're right, they don't "necessarily" imply you suck at driving, and sometimes good drivers get pulled over and ticketed as well, but I don't think anyone here will argue against the fact that people who suck at driving both stand out like sore thumbs and get pulled over more often, and this type of system will ensure that those people still get more training than the rest of us.

[rapparee]

Dear Mr. Curran, what you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent article were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Jesterbass21]

I dont know about you but I have noticed lately that normally I see more on my bike than in my car. The things you miss just because your in a cage one day could be a motorcycle. This article pissed me off. I have had 2 cousins die in motorcycle crashes that were both caused by idiot drivers. and one that lost the use of his arm because a corvette decided he was bigger and didnt have to stay in his lane. However that did not detour me from riding nor will it ever.

[dm_gsxr]

Yeah, sorry. I can't take a writer seriously when he stills uses his aol email address as his contact email.

:lol: Funny thing is that was my first thought too. :)


Carl

[ian22]

Beautiful....

askmrjesus at 1:03 PM June 22, 2011 Dear Mr. Curran,

If you are truly interested in public safety, one would think you would be more focused on the leading cause of death in this country: Obesity.

Now Hugh, I've seen your photo, and lets face it, you're a fatty pants. Your cholesterol level is much more likely to end up costing the public money, than all motorcyclists combined. We are, you see, a very small minority in the US, whereas as you, and your doughnut loving friends, are bankrupting the healthcare system, simply because you don't have the discipline to pass up a Baskin Robins every once in a while.

Of course, that also explains your problem with motorcycles. It's hard to stuff a Whopper into your saggy jowls, while riding one.

The solution seems clear: It's time to ban fat people. Specifically, fat people with online degrees in "journalism", who write articles that are meant to create controversy, rather than be of any informative value.

But wait, that would infringe on your right to stuff your face behind the wheel, while not paying attention to the road, and that, of course, is what America is all about; the freedom from personal responsibility.

I'll cut this short. It's close to lunch time, and I know the KFC down the street from your little cubby hole, has an all you can eat deal this week.

Bon Appetite.

JC

AWESOME!!!! Thanks for doing that.

[ian22]

I think the simplest way to start this whole thing would be to require "additional training" with EVERY traffic infraction. You get a ticket and BAM, mandatory re-education. Minimum 8 hour class that has to meet certain criteria and a skills test or something of the like. Obviously, make the driver pay for it if they want their driving priviledges reinstated. That way, everyone who NEEDS one can get one, but if you suck at driving you're going to get a lot more Driver's Ed that the rest of us.

Great idea...I like it! Typically I'm all about personal freedoms, but I do favor the idea of a tiered motorcyle licensing system that would limit the bikes a person can ride to their years of experience. It'd keep a 16yo kid from buying an R1 for his first bike. That was actually difficult for me to type as it borders on communism in my opion but I think it'd save lives.

[Jesterbass21]

did anyone see the followup? I did email him because I was upset and earlier today I got this link.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/citylink/upfront/sfl-auto-erotica-its-still-time-to-ban-the-motorcycle-20110627,0,2043379.story

Still it angers me someone that uses his freedom of speech, is trying to take away my freedom to get from one place to another the way I choose. What would be next? No more walking because someone knew someone that tripped and hit their head?

[Vellos]

This guy is a near-retarded fat little bitch. Wouldn't be surprised if he's found face down in a river. Riding a motorcycle is in no-way a similar hazard (for the public) as smoking in a public building, how does one even come to that comparison? I'm guessing his "moving on to better things" (from being a columnist) means he's getting fired. Good riddance!

[dm_gsxr]

Heck, he's just doing his job. Bringing in ad revenue. It's how he gets paid. It seems he did that pretty well.

Carl

[DevilsTonic]

I have some very passionate comments for the idiot that wrote that article. One of those that tries to interfere with natural selection by forcing a ban on motorcycles or requiring helmets.

Lets ban anything that is economically sound or enjoyable because of the potential danger involved. :down:

[Vellos]

Heck, he's just doing his job. Bringing in ad revenue. It's how he gets paid. It seems he did that pretty well.

Carl

It's different from writing a good article that many people enjoy to read, versus pissing a large group of people off out of ignorance. Sure he got a lot of hits, but that doesn't mean the advertisers are going to benefit from that. I didn't even pay attention to the ads because of the mindset I was in, and if I had I wouldn't view the ads positively due to my negative view on the article.

Same reason why Tiger Woods lost most of his sponsors. Companies don't want to be associated with a :jerkoff: even if they're getting lots of attention.