The stable - recommend me a 600 and why

[CaptGoodvibes]

So,

I have a 2009 FZ1 and think it's the cats pajamas. But I can't shake the desire to have something more sporty. I've had my eye on Ninja 600's for years and still think I want one. But I doubt I could tour on one so I'm thinking about adding it to my collection - making it two bikes ;)

The real quandary is which 600 to consider. I can't find a good comparo so I'm reaching out here for advice or links to articles. I don't care about peak performance as much as handling and the best ergos for a combo of local canyon rides and occasional track days. Did I mention my beer belly and love for food? That's gonna be an issue where the tank meets the man.

And go!

[Ol'Skool]

I have a 2005 FZ1 and a friends 2010 zx6r in my garage.
The zx6r is fun for a limited ammount of time. The ninja eats up tracks and canyons but after a few hours of riding my heart, butt and spine start feening for the FZ1.
I have no experience on other 600cc bikes though. The cbr and gsxr are supposed to be more comfortable.

[dirkterrell]

I've ridden the CBR, ZX6R (636) and the GSX-R. Coming from the VFR, the word comfort does not spring to mind for any of them. The 636 I rode a few laps on at IMI and it fit me better than the others (although I still don't think I could take it for more than an hour) and the engine was quite nice. The newer CBR has surprisingly good midrange for a 600. If I were to get one, I'd probably go with the Honda.

[OUTLAWD]

none.

Honestly I was in a similar position 2 years ago. I was riding my Sprint, and wanted something sportier, and to do trackdays on. I bought the GSXR and did a few trackdays, then found myself riding it entirely too fast on the street, not to mention it is uncomfortable as sin. This bike is now my racebike, and sees ~100 street miles a year when the Triumph is getting worked on.

Your FZ1 is more than capable of smoking nearly any bike on a canyon ride, and getting something sportier will only make it that much easier to break the law that much more. Riding my underpowered, heavy Triumph makes for a little bit of a challenge keeping up with well ridden sportbikes in the canyons, but most of the time I do just fine ;). when riding the same pace on the GSXR, I get bored.

If it were me, and I was mostly happy with the FZ1, I'd work to improve the things I was unhappy with (suspension, brakes, tires, etc) unless you plan on riding this second bike at the track, ALOT.

my $.02...and I expect change :)

[PunyJuney]

get a Honda CBR600 like mine, then Mel can ride it. Narrow seat = she can reach the ground. You can scootch back farther and your belly should hug the tank just right.

[Drift]

I tried to find a link...but Roadracing World does not have them for current articles.

Anyway...the July 2011 issue has their 600 shoot-out...and the winner was the Kawasaki ZX-6R





...second place was the Yamaha YZF-R6





...third place was the Suzuki GSX-R600

So, if you pick-up a copy of the magazine you can read all the high-low points.

Ciao,
Drift

[laspariahs]

I have a 09 ZX6R, and I rode it to Florida and back. It's not comfortable, but it was fine.


I had a 03 R6, and it had no bottom or mid range, compared to that the ZX6R has tons of mid range and more bottom.

I like the ZX6R better than the older R6, but that's just me. The main reason that I got the ZX6R is that I got a good deal on it, and it was much cheaper than the other bikes I was looking at. It also was winning all of the mag shootouts, whatever that is worth.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Well, if you're used to a 1000 with it's power, I can't see downgrading to a 600. Why not pick up an older 1k? Something used maybe? I'm actually fairly comfortable on my '01 for long trips, provided I can keep my speed up and pressure off my wrists. The first-gen Gixxers are actually lighter than the later ones, but a little bigger and more comfortable, so that might be something to look into.

[OUTLAWD]

comfort compared to other torture racks, and comfort compared to a sport touring/standard are NOT the same ;)

[CaptGoodvibes]

I'm looking for something that revs considerably higher than 12k rpm. :D

As for comfort, supersport geometry is similar to a mountain bike seat to bars...

[Zach929rr]

600's are for chicks.

Get a 400.

[Bueller]

600's are for chicks.

Get a 400.

400's are for fags

Get a 250

[Zach929rr]

400's are for fags

Get a 250

250's are for old men.

Get a 65.

(what now bitch?)

[Bueller]

Gotta rock a pimp scooter

http://www.pinktentacle.com/images/scooter_15.jpg

[Zach929rr]

oh lawds

:spit:
That seat is 100% legit.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

comfort compared to other torture racks, and comfort compared to a sport touring/standard are NOT the same ;)
Hah! Yeah, so I'm a masochist! But, honestly, maybe I've evolved (DEvolved??) to fit it better, or maybe my old torture rack I had for almost 17 years ('86 GSXR1100) made the '01 seem like a Gold Wing, but it's actually not too bad for me. I've done some 600+ mile days in a row on it, so.........

But, he's looking for sportier than his FZ1, which I'd think would be a great distance mount, so...... :)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

REAL men ride 50cc Derbi's anyway....... :)

[CaptGoodvibes]

Hah! Yeah, so I'm a masochist! But, honestly, maybe I've evolved (DEvolved??) to fit it better, or maybe my old torture rack I had for almost 17 years ('86 GSXR1100) made the '01 seem like a Gold Wing, but it's actually not too bad for me. I've done some 600+ mile days in a row on it, so.........

But, he's looking for sportier than his FZ1, which I'd think would be a great distance mount, so...... :)

The FZ1 is great for long distance! 400-500 miles days are doable. I only need the 600 to do 150 mile days or less. There is no talking me out of it. Like I said, I don't care about peak performance. I want handling.

FWIW, I will be modding the FZ1 with stuff as I see fit.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The FZ1 is great for long distance! 400-500 miles days are doable. I only need the 600 to do 150 mile days or less. There is no talking me out of it. Like I said, I don't care about peak performance. I want handling.

FWIW, I will be modding the FZ1 with stuff as I see fit.

So, why a 600 though if you already like literbikes? Just for the RPM? The new 1000's aren't really any heavier, and only a touch less agile, why not just go for a ZX-10 or something? But, I guess, I'd probably get a CBR600 if I was to step down, as it's got probably the best all-around engine, and overall package. Although, for something different (though less RPM), maybe a 848 Ducati, or a Triumph 675?

[CaptGoodvibes]

So, why a 600 though if you already like literbikes? Just for the RPM? The new 1000's aren't really any heavier, and only a touch less agile, why not just go for a ZX-10 or something? But, I guess, I'd probably get a CBR600 if I was to step down, as it's got probably the best all-around engine, and overall package. Although, for something different (though less RPM), maybe a 848 Ducati, or a Triumph 675?

I don't see it as a step down. I'm keeping the FZ1 which I don't see as a step up. The 600 is a tool for a job and a toy for my particular desires. The high revs are for the feeling and for ear candy :D Don't overthink it.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I don't see it as a step down. I'm keeping the FZ1 which I don't see as a step up. The 600 is a tool for a job and a toy for my particular desires. The high revs are for the feeling and for ear candy :D Don't overthink it.
Ahhh. Planning on racing too perhaps?

[VFR]

I've ridden the CBR, ZX6R (636) and the GSX-R. Coming from the VFR, the word comfort does not spring to mind for any of them. The 636 I rode a few laps on at IMI and it fit me better than the others (although I still don't think I could take it for more than an hour) and the engine was quite nice. The newer CBR has surprisingly good midrange for a 600. If I were to get one, I'd probably go with the Honda.

A Honda? You? No way.....But if it's about handling the CBR takes it!

[dirkterrell]

A Honda? You? No way.....But if it's about handling the CBR takes it!

Hey, I'm known to ride off brands like Suzuki occasionally. :)

[OUTLAWD]

all the brands from the land of the rising sun are "off brands" ;)

[VFR]

Your not fooling me...Gxsr bodywork on the outside but it's really a

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9213/nr750vr3.png

Its ok, I would disguise it too

[asp_125]

The new gsx-r750 weighs less than my 08 600. IMHO the best of both worlds.

[bornwildnfree]

You can go back and forth between all the 600s and everyone will tell you something different. I think the only real way to pick is to go to the dealerships and ask all of us to let you test drive the various bikes out there and see which one feels the most comfortable for you. I, personally, find my ZX10 to be a more comfortable ride than my SV650 (I'm weird I know). I also like to do long distances (500+ miles) and don't have a problem.
I also think you will find the step down from your bike to a 600 will feel like a massive loss in power or at least a noticeable one. A 600 shifts a lot more in the canyons and on the slabs here in town (having just upgraded from a 650 to a 1000, this was the first thing I noticed). In the end, it's really a personal choice, and only after sitting on every bike and trying all of them out can you make that decision. If you want to ride my zx or my SV (well after I fix the suspension), let me know.

[Bueller]

Moving from a 1000 to a 600 is not a step down, it is a different power delivery. None of these people could use a 600 to it's full potential but yet they need a 1000 :lol:
Coming off an FZ1 which does not have the power of an R1 you will be plenty satisfied with the power of a 600 supersport.
1000's are for lazy riders, the only thing they do better on the street is reduce shifting.
Get a 600 you will be more than happy with it for what you want it for, and I think you know that because as I see it you are looking for the differences in ergos of the 600's and everyone keeps try to upsell you to a 1k :roll:

[CaptGoodvibes]

Moving from a 1000 to a 600 is not a step down, it is a different power delivery. None of these people could use a 600 to it's full potential but yet they need a 1000 :lol:
Coming off an FZ1 which does not have the power of an R1 you will be plenty satisfied with the power of a 600 supersport.
1000's are for lazy riders, the only thing they do better on the street is reduce shifting.
Get a 600 you will be more than happy with it for what you want it for, and I think you know that because as I see it you are looking for the differences in ergos of the 600's and everyone keeps try to upsell you to a 1k :roll:

You are spot on Bueller. :applause:

[VFR]

The compromise has always been the GXSR 750...now it can be

a 750http://image.sportrider.com/f/34742955/146_1010_+2011_suzuki_gsxr750+.jpg
848
http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201007/ducati-848-evo-1_460x0w.jpg

675
http://www.indomotorcycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/2011_triumph_daytona_675R_03.jpg

Honda and Yami need to come out with some middle weight bike

[Bueller]

Honda and Yami need to come out with some middle weight bike

~600=Middleweight
750=Heavyweight
1000=open

[Ghost]

I used to get this question a lot when I was at the dealership.

The thing is, if you're looking at Japanese 600s, then ignore the friggin magazine comparos--they have to draw a single winner out of a crowd of fantastic bikes. The differences between them all are so minute that it really doesn't matter--there isn't a "loser" in the group (and the Winner is usually the newest bike that *just* released--surprise). And, if you read across magazine and online comparos, the results typically vary, one win in one source isn't the "Unequivocal World's Best 600" by any means.

As to 600 Vs. 1k? I've always had the option to get a 1k, yet I've stuck with 600s my entire riding career.

Why? I just love them. I've ridden 749s, 848s, 750s, 1000s, 1098s and I demo'd every brand 600 there was (since I could). I always went back to the "little" 600. They can completely destroy anything resembling a legal speed limit on the road, they're flickable and fun, and they absolutely scream their little hearts out for you. Yes, on a track in race conditions with a pro at the helm a liter-bike will crush a 600, but in the realm of track days and amateurs it's often the plucky little 600 that's quicker than the liters since they're less intimidating, less powerful and equally capable (or more) in the bends. Again, it's the rider as much as it is the bike, and I've never been "disappointed" in my 600 at all--even on the back straight when 1000s are ripping by me (which they will). I *enjoy* 600s, I think they're more engaging and the extra effort to keep them on boil makes them more exciting to ride than pretty much anything short of a 2-stroke 250. I always found it amusing when I'd show up on my 10yr old F4, get shit-talked by someone on a liter bike about how my bike's old, fat, and slow (it was all of those) and yet I'd never see that liter bike anywhere but behind me (except on the straights).

I guess I'd rather be working at it instead of lazily loping along on a 1k. Don't get me wrong I nearly bought a CBR1000RR last time around, mainly because it's SO close to a 600 in handling, but, ultimately, I went back to the 600 and I'd do it again. Even the 750 feels like cheating to me--though they are fantastic bikes.



As to "which" 600--everyone will tell you which one is THE BEST to get, but, really, read the various reviews, sit on (or ride if you can) all of them, and then pick the one that you like best and take it home.

For me, I'm a Honda loyalist, but I considered the 2009 GSXR600. It's cheaper than the Honda, has a slipper clutch (Honda still refuses to fit one) and is a great bike. But, when it came time to pay for something, after riding them all, I (surprise!) preferred the uber-lightweight Honda.

I loved the riding position, I think the fit & finish is peerless, the reliability is (typically) outstanding, the midrange (for a stock 600) is pretty good and it's just a very, very agile little bike. If this same bike were made by someone else I'd have defected to get it, I just liked it that much more than the other 600s (though, again, the differences were so minor that ANY of them are roughly equal 99.99% of the time).

The underseat exhaust WILL roast your ass/thigh on a hot day in traffic, the lack of a slipper is annoying in an age where it should be stardard fare, and it desperately needs steel braided lines for track use, but overall, it's still my first choice.

But, that's MY choice, and it fits MY riding style and MY preferred riding position.


In Short:

1. If you want to know about the Ergos of each 600, you can read what we write, OR you can go sit your ass on each one of them and find out which one YOU like best...I'd recommend option #2.
2. Quit asking US what bike YOU should get, Go find which 600 YOU like best and buy it!

(you probably already have one in mind, everyone does, you just want people to confirm it for you).

[CaptGoodvibes]

Thanks Ghost! Great insight in your comments and I'll take it to heart. I do like the Ninja the best but I have no idea why. I'm not a brand loyalist so they are all in the running. And ultimately, I will be test sitting/riding them all but my limited years riding could use any advice offered. The "bikes" I've owned/ridden read like the island of misfit toys. The 600 in my near future will be the first true blood sportbike among them.

1984 Vespa P200E <-- not a motorcycle obviously but freeway legal back in the 80's
1985 Honda Nighthawk 450 <-- housemate's bike but I used it All. The. Time.
2008 Harley Dyna Super Glide <-- first new bike, many fun miles, too slow for my tastes
2009 Yamaha FZ1 <-- fast, fun, rides like a dream. Bars and seating position not lending to deep leans. Too much power and too snatchy of a throttle to trust coming out of a corner
20xx 600 <-- for leaning, revving to 15k to tickle my fancy, and finally learning to ride at schools of all kinds

[Ghost]

Thanks Ghost! Great insight in your comments and I'll take it to heart. I do like the Ninja the best but I have no idea why. I'm not a brand loyalist so they are all in the running. And ultimately, I will be test sitting/riding them all but my limited years riding could use any advice offered. The "bikes" I've owned/ridden read like the island of misfit toys. The 600 in my near future will be the first true blood sportbike among them.

1984 Vespa P200E <-- not a motorcycle obviously but freeway legal back in the 80's
1985 Honda Nighthawk 450 <-- housemate's bike but I used it All. The. Time.
2008 Harley Dyna Super Glide <-- first new bike, many fun miles, too slow for my tastes
2009 Yamaha FZ1 <-- fast, fun, rides like a dream. Bars and seating position not lending to deep leans. Too much power and too snatchy of a throttle to trust coming out of a corner
20xx 600 <-- for leaning, revving to 15k to tickle my fancy, and finally learning to ride at schools of all kinds

hehe, anytime, I am here to help...

I think that if you LIKE the Kawasaki, then, assuming it fits you comfortably, and you can ride it without feeling it's too big or too small or too Whatever, then GET the Kawi.

You don't have to justify WHY you like it, if you do, you do, get it!

At this stage, being your first 600, Liking the bike is the critical factor.

Once you're an MRA pro moving up to AMA, THEN every 10th of a second you can squeeze out matters. BUT, at this point...just get the one you WANT the most...it's that simple.

There doesn't have to be endless hours spent pouring over everything to get the "perfect" bike, as long as YOU are Happy, then that's ALL that matters...so many people used to take every last ounce of Joy out of buying a bike that I didn't understand why they were getting one...

This isn't buying a new artificial heart, this is a Toy to go Play with and Enjoy...so get the one you WANT to play with.

And, again, I cannot emphasize it enough: ALL the current 600s are FANTASTIC bikes. There is a bad one in any of them...

Back when I bought my F4, the R6 was the undisputed KING of 600s, and unlike bikes of today, it WAS far, far better in *every* performance category...yet, despite it all, the F4 was the one I took home--and kept for the next 10 years...

So, if you want the Kawi, get it and be happy that you've gotten the one you wanted the most.

:D

[Drift]

hehe, anytime, I am here to help...

I think that if you LIKE the Kawasaki, then, assuming it fits you comfortably, and you can ride it without feeling it's too big or too small or too Whatever, then GET the Kawi.

You don't have to justify WHY you like it, if you do, you do, get it!

At this stage, being your first 600, Liking the bike is the critical factor.

Once you're an MRA pro moving up to AMA, THEN every 10th of a second you can squeeze out matters. BUT, at this point...just get the one you WANT the most...it's that simple.

There doesn't have to be endless hours spent pouring over everything to get the "perfect" bike, as long as YOU are Happy, then that's ALL that matters...so many people used to take every last ounce of Joy out of buying a bike that I didn't understand why they were getting one...

This isn't buying a new artificial heart, this is a Toy to go Play with and Enjoy...so get the one you WANT to play with.

And, again, I cannot emphasize it enough: ALL the current 600s are FANTASTIC bikes. There is a bad one in any of them...

Back when I bought my F4, the R6 was the undisputed KING of 600s, and unlike bikes of today, it WAS far, far better in *every* performance category...yet, despite it all, the F4 was the one I took home--and kept for the next 10 years...

So, if you want the Kawi, get it and be happy that you've gotten the one you wanted the most.

:D

Well said Ghost!

+1

[~Barn~]

Honda 600's are notoriously easy to go fast on. If I were looking for an "all around" 600, then it would be my first one to look at. Unlike the R6 and GSX-R, I remember feeling that this bike was just a little bit better as a street rig.

All out track weapon, then either the R6 or the Zook, but I haven't ridden the newest iterations of either, so I don't know where exactly my choice would sit. They both suck (IMO) as street bikes, because you have to ride them like an asshole to see them shine. But yeah... they're race bikes basically.

Most Kawi's don't appeal to me stylewise, so I can't include them in any fair comparison. The 636 was always a fav. of mine though, because I liked its overachieving engine. Again... it made for a better streetbike in the grand scheme of 600 comparos.

Ghost's advise though, is really the brass tax. Get the one that gives wood. :D

[RCStylin']

I went to a shop that had all of them. Rode them back to back twice each. Decided on the gsxr because it fit me the best. They are all solid...choose the one that fits you best.

[VFR]

~600=Middleweight
750=Heavyweight
1000=open

750 is considered heavyweight??

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

750 is considered heavyweight??
To most racing organizations, most likely. Open probably means just that, open to anything over 750cc including Busa's, ZX 14's, etc.

[VFR]

Ahhhhh thanks for the education guys!

I would love to see a class where busa's, zx12's, and 14's competed.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Test sat all four 2011 600's today but at two different shops.

Gotta find a shop with all four under one roof and do some test rides...

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Ahhhhh thanks for the education guys!

I would love to see a class where busa's, zx12's, and 14's competed.
You want crazy? In the '80's (and maybe into the '90's), out at willow Springs there was a class called "Formula USA", that was basically anything goes. Kenny Roberts brought out some OW-series 500cc Grand Prix 2-strokes, he later brought some 250cc 2-strokes with nitrous, there were ZX-11's, but the ones I remember were the Yoshimure Tornados, basically, a full-race oil-cooled Gixxer 1100 motor in a heavily modified 750 frame (they usually took 2 750 frames and cut and welded them together). Scott Gray rode them and except for the 500cc 2-strokes, devastated the class for years. The AMA "Formula Xtreme" was a very poor imitation of the old class (like, really, how "Xtreme" can a 600 be?).

[Bueller]

I would love to see a class where busa's, zx12's, and 14's competed.

That's called drag racing.

[VFR]

noooo let them big bastards hit the corners...lol Monkey you know you'd watch it too

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

noooo let them big bastards hit the corners...lol Monkey you know you'd watch it too
I did. ;) I lived maybe 40min from Willow Springs from '80-'91, and saw a TON of races out there, including a little-known guy named Kevin Schwantz's first AMA pro race riding Wes Cooley's old #34 Yosh Suzuki, and every WERA 24-hrs West (endurance racing) in addition to many of the F-USA races I mentioned. Yeah, I'd hit it. :)