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Bueller
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 09:51 AM
There has been mention in a number threads of having experienced riders pair up with new or new to canyon riders for some one on one instruction time and riding evaluation.
This would be a good place to ask for and offer the help.
I think posting an open invite will just result in a group ride that will not offer any real quality help.

I propose that if you are looking for some help and your ego isn't too large, you can post up here and then if you aren't a total ass on here, and some one is willing to spend some time with you they can PM you and set up a meeting.

I would suggest posting times you would be available for 2-3 hours and then the mentors can see what fits into their schedules.

I hate to be the one who pushes the track thing because I know both worlds and some people have no interest or are intimated by the thought or riding track but I will throw that out here also. If you would like to visit IMI and really learn how to make your bike go around corners it will cost you all of $35 and no real bike prep. And they have fewer rules for rider gear than some of the recent rides posted here. :lol:

I don't know how to determine if those offering help are actually qualified per say to do so. I am too hoping this does not turn into noob helping noob.
Everyone is so sensitive to their noobness that they get all pissy if it is questioned.

I am thinking more on the lines of you should have been riding for a minimum of 4-5 years and be one of "those guys or gals" that has a reputation for quick. Quick is different from fast.

Tylar
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 10:00 AM
:up:

BC14
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 10:32 AM
I concur. I hope this turns into a good thing for those that want to partake.

asp_125
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 10:39 AM
+1 I hope it doesn't turn into: "knee dragging in Boulder Canyon 101". This won't make you instantly keep up with the really good fast riders, this will give you the concepts and techniques to let you progress safely towards being a good safe rider. So if your ego will let you ride at the posted limit sometimes, speak up.

madvlad
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 10:39 AM
I'm liking this very mucho

CYCLE_MONKEY
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:13 AM
+1 I hope it doesn't turn into: "knee dragging in Boulder Canyon 101".
Yeah, I find 7 is SO much better for that.......... (Kidding).

I think Bueller has a good idea here, and share your concern Jeff. But, I think smaller groups attract less attention from Johnny Law, and have less tendency to get out of hand due to their smaller size. I have a friend here who's getting back into riding that I've been taking around, showing him new roads, and it's been a lot of fun and I think he's doing very well and learning a lot. Not only that, he's a great guy and it's been a lot of fun getting to know a new friend better.

Like I've said, I don't have a problem with n00bs per se, I just would rather choose A n00b or 2 I TRUST to take out instead of a large uncontrolled group.

I hope people take advantage of this idea.

Matty
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:15 AM
Everyone is so sensitive to their noobness that they get all pissy if it is questioned.

:spit:

TransNone13
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:17 AM
Bueller, just have volunteers post their experience in a predetermined format and let those looking for help choose!

AOK303
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:24 AM
Ehhh I'm a Noob and I did get/seek help. i've seen too many car accidents over the years. I still take noobs out in my car to show how the circit should be run, show them how to pick, run or hold lines car is more forgiving then a bike

Think this is a great idea

Bueller
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:29 AM
Bueller, just have volunteers post their experience in a predetermined format and let those looking for help choose!

While some people have endless patients that would be fine, I am not such a person so while I would be willing to choose a student out of a pool I am not inclined to have them choose me.

Of course if someone want's to be on such a list they are welcome to do so.

TransNone13
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:34 AM
Well, you don't have to accept them. Just trying to be helpful, I personally don't know the area well enough.

Drift
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:37 AM
Like I've said, I don't have a problem with n00bs per se, I just would rather choose a n00b or two I TRUST to take out instead of a large uncontrolled group.

I hope people take advantage of this idea.

+1 :up:

WolFeYeZ
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 11:41 AM
I would enjoy riding one on one with a more experienced rider To attempt to help out my ability. Great idea bueller :)

CaptGoodvibes
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 12:19 PM
When I first started riding here in Colorado, canyons were a mysterious beast. Jeff(asp125) was my first and only mentor and he really helped me with the fundamentals and my confidence. But now he has a girlfriend :wtf: :p

I need help learning the capabilities of my bike in terms of lean and stability. Every time I'm in too hot, I pray and ride it out but I'd rather do it with resolve and knowledge I'm not about to die. Really, I want to be able to ride a quicker pace without thinking I have to hang off the bike all the time to make it through corners. I'm thinking about Bueller's video when I say this.

I'll be glad to post up a time I need mentoring next Thursday or Friday but I won't know for a couple days.

mtnairlover
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 12:34 PM
I propose that if you are looking for some help and your ego isn't too large, you can post up here and then if you aren't a total ass on here, and some one is willing to spend some time with you they can PM you and set up a meeting.

I would suggest posting times you would be available for 2-3 hours and then the mentors can see what fits into their schedules.

Everyone is so sensitive to their noobness that they get all pissy if it is questioned.

I am thinking more on the lines of you should have been riding for a minimum of 4-5 years and be one of "those guys or gals" that has a reputation for quick. Quick is different from fast.


I like this idea, Bueller!

I also like the idea that someone else posted. That is...posting up your years of experience, etc. This would be for all to see and it would weed out the noob teaching noob idea. Someone can always call BS when those who post their experience do it in a public format.

With that said, I would like to suggest that a sticky get posted with names of those who are willing to mentor new(er) riders. The sticky and mentor names should include the following:

Year started riding:
Male/female: this may need to remain unspoken or included in a PM, but the alternative is getting to the meeting spot and the noob realizes he's being taught by a woman and his ego ends up getting in his way of taking on some good advice
Dirt experienced?
Track experienced?
Mountain road experienced?

Just my .02

I'm just not sure how the new(er) rider could be assured that they are riding with someone who has more than 4 years experience, or that this person is regarded as a good rider and not an ass.

FZRguy
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 01:24 PM
+1 on IMI. I'm going tomorrow, July 11.

http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=40954

Clovis
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 01:58 PM
Wingman needed, inquire within.

TransNone13
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Wingman needed, inquire within.

Inquiring...

Drift
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:12 PM
...Just my .02

I'm just not sure how the new(er) rider could be assured that they are riding with someone who has more than 4 years experience, or that this person is regarded as a good rider and not an ass...

As far as I know...I'm only considered an ass at my workplace?!?

Ezzzzy1
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:13 PM
Wonder where this idea came from... lol. Guess you kinda beat me to it.

Maybe the experienced riders can PM Bueller over the next week so that we can get a pool going, once we have 10+? you can post them up and go from there. It would be nice to see a day/time posted that way its somewhat organized and we can stop for lunch somewhere and talk shop...

I like the track idea and maybe thats something everyone could take a look at for future mentoring. I bet this is something that we could turn into a monthly thing and that would be great!

Just ideas...

Original post -

You know what would be cool....? A ride that paired an experienced canyon rider with someone that know how to ride but is looking to get better in the canyons8). Something like 5 groups of 2 going off in 5-10 intervals. I have a fair amount of canyon experience but would totally jump at the opportunity to be critiqued, might be the only way I would hear about something I am doing wrong or could be doing better.

Im sure it would take a lot for some of the boards better canyon riders to "donate" a morning but I think the opportunity to share some of the great pointers you have collected over the years would be awesome! Im sure lunch could be worked in there as well:dunno:.

Dont want to jack the thread but I think its a really proactive approach to the original concern.

So lets just start a list of the 5 canyon experts and go from there..LOL

Concabar
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:20 PM
It all sounds good. I learned how to ride from people on here, that took me out and showed me a thing or two, had me follow their lines and ride behind me. I am grateful to all those who helped, but I also have to give some credit to the Missourisportbikeclub as well. I have been riding for a little over 2 years now and i have been taught well. So thanks.

Zach929rr
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:23 PM
I'd be willing to dedicate an hour to someone willing to learn.

vort3xr6
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:24 PM
Bueller. I need some riding help. Still can't remember what side the clutch is on. Right foot or left foot?

Bueller
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:47 PM
Wonder where this idea came from... lol. Guess you kinda beat me to it.




You really think that no one else had thought of this before? We (several of the long time members) have talked about this since the start of this seasons crash fest. But came to the conclusion that hardly any of the new hot rods would willing to take advantage.
BTW this is not the first year there has been this crashing epidemic, it happened last year and the year before and so on and so on, and will happen again next year.

Maybe the experienced riders can PM Bueller over the next week so that we can get a pool going, once we have 10+? you can post them up and go from there. It would be nice to see a day/time posted that way its somewhat organized and we can stop for lunch somewhere and talk shop..
What is going to make this any different fro any other group ride?

I am talking one on one separate from all other riders, perferably off hours but to be done outside the group dynamic.

I am not going to organize anything, this is an opportunity for those that want help to speak up and for those willing to help to contact them as they see fit.

As far as track instruction I usually hit IMI during the week when I can, to avoid the karting crowd but I usually post up, I have had only a couple of people ask for any instruction when they do show up. I will generally try to give the new guys some basic track etiquette and tips but usually after they demonstrate they have little idea of what they are doing.

Bueller
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 02:49 PM
Bueller. I need some riding help. Still can't remember what side the clutch is on. Right foot or left foot?

It's the right, and when the wheel locks up it's time to shift!

Ezzzzy1
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 03:12 PM
Ha.. No Bueller I dont think I am the first to think of this. Just saying that you jumped on another conversation and posted up your own. Thats all.


You know what would be cool....? A ride that paired an experienced canyon rider with someone that know how to ride but is looking to get better in the canyons8). Something like 5 groups of 2 going off in 5-10 intervals. I have a fair amount of canyon experience but would totally jump at the opportunity to be critiqued, might be the only way I would hear about something I am doing wrong or could be doing better.

Im sure it would take a lot for some of the boards better canyon riders to "donate" a morning but I think the opportunity to share some of the great pointers you have collected over the years would be awesome! Im sure lunch could be worked in there as well:dunno:.

Dont want to jack the thread but I think its a really proactive approach to the original concern.

So lets just start a list of the 5 canyon experts and go from there..LOL

I consider myself an above average rider with several track days and a couple of races under my belt. But being new to Denver Im finding the canyons more challenging than I expected. Id spring for lunch for an ego-free guided tour.
New thread?


Done

http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41042

Guess I figured you cared about this enough to take the initiative to start a thread that maybe you would be willing to do more than just that. I see the value in you doing it the way you are and hope it works, I just had painted another picture in my head.

I think its a really good idea and would love to see some of the more outgoing experienced riders lend a hand in educating people that are interested in learning. Now its a pissing match and dont really see any point in stepping on anyone elses toes.

Great idea Bueller!

dirkterrell
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 04:12 PM
I live about 15 minutes from IMI so I could do some evening sessions out there after work, say from 4pm on. I could bring the GoPro and laptop along so we could go over what you're doing. Being in the monsoon season makes it a little trickier but the days are long. Right now I'm nursing a sore and swollen knee but hopefully that'll clear up in a few days.

50sGrl
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 04:40 PM
Jeff(asp125) was my first and only mentor and he really helped me with the fundamentals and my confidence. But now he has a girlfriend :wtf: :p

I'm fairly certain this hasn't hindered his various abilities in any way. :rolleyes:

Survivalism
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 04:49 PM
This is beyond awesome guys, i would JUMP at the chance to learn from some of you guys, my work schedule is a bit funky but i believe i have this upcoming friday and saturday off.

Willing to meet anytime and anywhere, you are doing me a huge favor so the least i can do is make it as convenient as possible for ya.

Thank you for posting this up bueller!!

BC14
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 05:05 PM
I am thinking more on the lines of you should have been riding for a minimum of 4-5 years and be one of "those guys or gals" that has a reputation for quick. Quick is different from fast.
I fall into that group, I think. But I'm not sure anyone would want to follow the starship enterprise around :p

Bueller
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 05:16 PM
Ideally you would lead and follow. People with ride cams that can face both ways would be another great tool for analyzing after the fact. I don't think the instructors bike should matter much, like they say it's the rider more than the bike. If I were to do it I would probably ride my wifes 250.

Bueller
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 05:24 PM
This is beyond awesome guys, i would JUMP at the chance to learn from some of you guys, my work schedule is a bit funky but i believe i have this upcoming friday and saturday off.

Willing to meet anytime and anywhere, you are doing me a huge favor so the least i can do is make it as convenient as possible for ya.

Thank you for posting this up bueller!!

Exactly! This is what I mean, now someone can PM you with an offer of assistance and you have been here long enough that you probably have a decent idea of who is who here but if their join date is 2007 or so at least you know they have survived the streets awhile otherwise one can respectfully request a short history of experience.

asp_125
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 05:42 PM
I'm fairly certain this hasn't hindered his various abilities in any way. :rolleyes:

..That's what she said. ;)

BC14
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 05:43 PM
..That's what she said. ;)
:spit:

CaptGoodvibes
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 06:58 PM
I'm fairly certain this hasn't hindered his various abilities in any way. :rolleyes:

He seems to be fully booked nowadays unlike in years past. No worries. His priorities are sound :)

Survivalism
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 07:09 PM
Exactly! This is what I mean, now someone can PM you with an offer of assistance and you have been here long enough that you probably have a decent idea of who is who here but if their join date is 2007 or so at least you know they have survived the streets awhile otherwise one can respectfully request a short history of experience.

Yeah ive got a decent idea of the "players" around here if you will, i would be willing to buy lunch or something similar as a token of my gratitude as well.

also willing to ride out to IMI for the first time, just a long trek for me to ride back to SE Aurora after riding hard at the track.

koru
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Hey I think you can always learn because when you think you know it all thats when you learn the hard way. Spooph has taught me alot along with bornwildandfree and i have beeen riding all over the country for at least 8 years or so but I love knowledge as all good knowledge will help you just as bad knowledge will hurt. But I feel that most of you are not gonna play with peoples lives and really help all of us and it just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside....Thanks!!!:)

Cornfed
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 09:46 PM
Bueller thanks for posting this up. I especially like your comment, "Quick is different from fast."
New to the canyons and finding them more challenging then expected. Im typically off on Thursdays, working Saturdays. Repsol ao95 turned me on to IMI and Im planning on heading out this Thursday, 7.14, for practice.
Id take some help at IMI, HPR, or any Canyon road. Im in Parker and I promise to leave my ego at home. :) PM me.

tecknojoe
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 10:27 PM
I'm eyeballing July 29th for a track day at HPR. I'd love to have someone show me the line in the a.m., then catch me later in the day to tell me why I suck.

All my track days were at other tracks, so, here's a couple questions:

are the open lap days just non stop, any time you want, track time? or do they break it up and try to put slower people together?

Are there mofos out there running full race pace just randomly and flying past slow guys?

FZRguy
Sun Jul 10th, 2011, 10:57 PM
technojoe, HPR will usually break it up into slow/fast groups at an open track day. If the turnout is light, they will run open track for all. You really don't need to worry about racers...they know how to pass. IMI is open for all, 'cept when the karts are out.

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:53 AM
On the Friday before a race weekend you can expect there will be sessions for sure, probably Slow/Med/Fast.

gtn
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 08:32 AM
I fall into that group, I think. But I'm not sure anyone would want to follow the starship enterprise around :p

I've followed you. It's no big deal. :D

UglyDogRacing
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 10:15 AM
I'm available for this.

aerofaze
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 10:54 AM
Eager disciple in the Springs chiming in!

Though my preference is to be down in the Dirty, I don't mind making a trip north to meet with a mentor.

Thanks for the thread, Bueller.

WolFeYeZ
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 10:56 AM
I am a new and low experienced rider looking for a mentor. I've had my bike since February of this year and put at least 5,000 on her since, over 75% of it in the canyons. The only think I know I do right really is looking through the corners, or at least I do my best to. As for everything else, I try to get a cheek off for faster corners (a crutch on the street?) and roll the throttle on through the corner. Although people say they are good things to do, I have no idea if I am doing shit correctly. I've also tried some different lines on cleaner roads, but I always found myself cutting in too quickly so the line I currently take is just the inside all the way through the corner(probably not the best). I bet my form is terrible really so I would gladly take some advice to improve :)

I can get out to IMI(never been) and to most canyons here around Denver, but I cant afford a real track day. I'm available all day Friday, Saturday and Sunday execept Sunday evenings.

OUTLAWD
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 10:57 AM
+1 I hope it doesn't turn into: "knee dragging in Boulder Canyon 101".

but I miss the knee dragger rides that used to be posted up ;)


I fall into that group, I think. But I'm not sure anyone would want to follow the starship enterprise around :p

the ego thing comes into play here...sensitive noobs can tend to get pissy when a bike with saddle bags passes them.

I am by no means the best or fastest, but I'd be willing to help a brotha/sista out. IMI prefered, but I have also been known to ride at HPR and in the twisties.


My riding CV:

I can ride my bike with no handlebars

BC14
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 11:18 AM
the ego thing comes into play here...sensitive noobs can tend to get pissy when a bike with saddle bags passes them.

:lol:

Treyjack
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 11:22 AM
I would be interested. Always open to improving myself so that I'm a safer rider for myself and for the people I ride with.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 11:22 AM
the ego thing comes into play here...sensitive noobs can tend to get pissy when a bike with saddle bags passes them.
......must have been someone OTHER than Erik then.......:p:D

BC14
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 11:25 AM
......must have been someone OTHER than Erik then.......:p:D
Never mentioned anything about me...... Dave has/had bags on his bike.

Sully
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 11:26 AM
the ego thing comes into play here...sensitive noobs can tend to get pissy when a bike with saddle bags passes them.


or if a girl passes them :boobies:

Great suggestion Bueller :up:

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 11:28 AM
Never mentioned anything about me...... Dave has/had bags on his bike.
Must have missed the point where I was bustin' yer ballz a little? :)

brennahm
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 11:44 AM
I'd be willing to help out at IMI. PM me.

JonnyD
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 12:31 PM
Bueller, great idea and thanks for the thread!

I'd really appreciate some feedback that could help me enter corners faster than I am now. Feedback on body position and leaning further, even lines through corners would also be most welcome. I'd be more than willing to buy dinner for whoever can help, for a couple hours of your experienced time.

I've been riding about 4 years, about 3500 miles in the mountains, 22k everywhere. I'm taking the basic rider safety course this coming weekend (tested into my license at DMV). Can get a faster corner speed once I'm into it, even adjust lean while adjusting speed, definetly need help/confidence/tips on entering corners faster/smoother. I've been working on upper body positioning lately and feel fairly stable there.

Availability for me is best in the evenings after 6, or early mornings on weekends. A full trackday isn't an option for me, IMI might be but I'm hesitant to attend on a weekend. I'd prefer to set up something after the basic rider course - ie next week or later. Can start very close to Morrison.

vort3xr6
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 12:37 PM
I am pretty quick.


At least that's what the ladies always told me.

brennahm
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 12:37 PM
edit: HAHAHA!^

IMI should only be a half day. Show up ready to ride at opening time. Ride unrestricted for a couple hours. Begin getting interrupted by carts about the time you start getting tired. A couple more sessions and it's noon and time to go home.

gtn
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 01:06 PM
I have benefited from the mentoring of more experienced riders, look forward to spending the rest of my life learning everything I can about riding, and am willing to share what I know.

MetaLord 9
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 01:09 PM
What's a canyon?

brennahm
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 01:13 PM
That thing between your mom's...nm.

jrhurt
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 01:51 PM
I know that this is the street forum, but if any of you guys are willing to help on dirt please let us know. Of course you don't have to choose me even if you are willing to help!

By the way, I think Bueller's idea of having the volunteers pick the people they are willing to help is the way to do it. If you are already offering up assistance, you should at least be able to make it on your own terms.

FZRguy
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 02:18 PM
All the more reason to come out to IMI with us jr. There's the dirt section on the kart track, and lots of open dirt riding in addition to the main MX and flat tracks. I've ridden knobs on the kart track and it's not bad....and you can rip the dirt section.

Spooph
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 02:28 PM
Am I still on the green side of being a mentor?

Year started riding: 2005 - 140,000 miles thus far.
Male/female: male
Dirt experienced? a wee bit
Track experienced? quite a few sessions at IMI, 1 track day at HPR
Mountain road experienced? 40,000 (? - guess)If the more experienced riders say I'm cool, I'd be more than happy to teach some folks about riding on the street. My experience is NOT on the track, and I would be of no use there as a teacher, but I know what to look for on the street.

LuxoDave
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 02:40 PM
Hello all,

I would be interested in taking advantage of this. I am relatively new to the area, this is my second year in Colorado. I have been lurking on the forum for a while but just started riding last year at the age of 39.

If anyone is close to Castle Rock and does not mind a Ninja 250 tagging along that would be awesome.

David

bornwildnfree
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 03:14 PM
^^Spooph rides a 250 and often a pink tutu (on girls only rides but still) and he kicks my ass on a regular basis and I have a liter bike LOL so do not be embarrassed by your 250 Luxo.

BC14
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 03:19 PM
Am I still on the green side of being a mentor?

Year started riding: 2005 - 140,000 miles thus far.
Male/female: male
Dirt experienced? a wee bit
Track experienced? quite a few sessions at IMI, 1 track day at HPR
Mountain road experienced? 40,000 (? - guess)If the more experienced riders say I'm cool, I'd be more than happy to teach some folks about riding on the street. My experience is NOT on the track, and I would be of no use there as a teacher, but I know what to look for on the street.
Way too green. That's not nearly enough mileage to be considered :p

vort3xr6
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 03:52 PM
Year started riding: 2004
Male/female: Male
Dirt experienced? some.
Track experienced? lots.
Mountain road experienced? I follow other people.

:)

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 03:52 PM
Am I still on the green side of being a mentor?

Year started riding: 2005 - 140,000 miles thus far.
Male/female: male
Dirt experienced? a wee bit
Track experienced? quite a few sessions at IMI, 1 track day at HPR
Mountain road experienced? 40,000 (? - guess)If the more experienced riders say I'm cool, I'd be more than happy to teach some folks about riding on the street. My experience is NOT on the track, and I would be of no use there as a teacher, but I know what to look for on the street.
This is where you have to be honest with yourself, do you think you are ready :lol:

Hello all,

I would be interested in taking advantage of this. I am relatively new to the area, this is my second year in Colorado. I have been lurking on the forum for a while but just started riding last year at the age of 39.

If anyone is close to Castle Rock and does not mind a Ninja 250 tagging along that would be awesome.

David
David let us know where you are at in your riding, have you done an MSF course? Have you ventured into the hills yet or mostly commuting/fun in the city?


^^Spooph rides a 250 and often a pink tutu (on girls only rides but still) and he kicks my ass on a regular basis and I have a liter bike LOL so do not be embarrassed by your 250 Luxo.
250's are the shit!:siesta:

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 03:59 PM
I know that this is the street forum, but if any of you guys are willing to help on dirt please let us know. Of course you don't have to choose me even if you are willing to help!

By the way, I think Bueller's idea of having the volunteers pick the people they are willing to help is the way to do it. If you are already offering up assistance, you should at least be able to make it on your own terms.

Are you looking for track or trail help?

LuxoDave
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:07 PM
T

David let us know where you are at in your riding, have you done an MSF course? Have you ventured into the hills yet or mostly commuting/fun in the city?


I have about 5000 miles so far. Some commuting back and forth to work but I have been on 67 to Deckers a few times, 105 a lot and 83 back and forth to Co Springs several times. A few other places but mostly around Castle Rock.

Tylar
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:14 PM
I'll play along:

Year started riding: 1996
Male/female: Male
Dirt experienced? Nope.
Track experienced? Nope.
Mountain road experienced? Been riding Thompson and Poudre canyons since 1996, lots of time in the South Denver canyons and recently Boulder area canyons. As far as style, you won't see me blasting straights, but I am always looking for 1st-gear switchbacks (Jamestown Loop).

Ezzzzy1
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:19 PM
Are you looking for track or trail help?

I would focus on both because that is were the area of concern is... Way to many accidents on the track and trail this year :no:.

Even tho people are seeming to think that the track is the perfect place to get better riding the canyons, practicing there is not really addressing the real issue.

Where is the sand training on the track? How about the "oh shit I am going to fly off the mountain" rush of blood training? Or the "Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off". Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.

UglyDogRacing
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:27 PM
I know that this is the street forum, but if any of you guys are willing to help on dirt please let us know. Of course you don't have to choose me even if you are willing to help!

By the way, I think Bueller's idea of having the volunteers pick the people they are willing to help is the way to do it. If you are already offering up assistance, you should at least be able to make it on your own terms.


Are you looking for track or trail help?


I would focus on both because that is were the area of concern is... Way to many accidents on the track and trail this year :no:.

Even tho people are seeming to think that the track is the perfect place to get better riding the canyons, practicing there is not really addressing the real issue.

Where is the sand training on the track? How about the "oh shit I am going to fly off the mountain" rush of blood training? Or the "Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off". Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.

you need to read the post that Bueller was responding to....

Ghost
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:28 PM
How about the "oh shit I am going to fly off the mountain" rush of blood training? Or the "Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off". Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.

I respectfully disagree.

PMP, in particular has the "Oh shit I'm going to hit that F*ing wall" sensation after your bike tries to shake itself apart and throw you off coming through Turn 10 (it's not quite that bad, but it can feel like it--especially if you've not hit it before).

The Group of 10 taking off can happen in any session where there're faster riders that you may or may not feel compelled to keep up with. I think a decent amount of the incidents at track days are people getting in over their heads trying to keep pace with faster riders--just like it happens on the street (though at least at the track the consequences are typically milder).

Track days are way more than just corner practice--you're learning the true capabilities of your skill, you're learning your bike's true characteristics, you're learning what your tires like and don't like, you're learning (or should be learning) how to smoothly enter and exit corners, you're learning to ride with other people of very different skill levels and paces (lap times, etc), you're learning how to ride consistently so others can move around you without changing lines and messing everyone up and causing an incident...

There's really nothing I can think of that cannot be better learned on a track and then applied to the street...

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:33 PM
you need to read the post that Bueller was responding to....

And possibly my first post.




I hate to be the one who pushes the track thing because I know both worlds and some people have no interest or are intimated by the thought or riding track but I will throw that out here also. If you would like to visit IMI and really learn how to make your bike go around corners it will cost you all of $35 and no real bike prep. And they have fewer rules for rider gear than some of the recent rides posted here. :lol:

Ezzzzy1
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:43 PM
you need to read the post that Bueller was responding to....

I did. Good quote to use to make the point. Anyone wanting track help doesnt need a resume to get it. Show up at the track and ask question. Big difference between the track and the canyons. I dont see anyone getting any real benefit from all this "mentoring" if they are looking to get help with canyon riding and someone wants to show them on the track.

Ezzzzy1
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:48 PM
How about we start a thread for the guys that want to learn the track by teaching them how to ride the canyons?

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Why don't you

UglyDogRacing
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:00 PM
I did. Good quote to use to make the point. Anyone wanting track help doesnt need a resume to get it. Show up at the track and ask question. Big difference between the track and the canyons. I dont see anyone getting any real benefit from all this "mentoring" if they are looking to get help with canyon riding and someone wants to show them on the track.

So if you show up at a track and ask questions how do you know the person you are asking is reputable and actually has more skills and knowledge than yourself? And yes there is a big difference between the track and the canyons. That said, the track is a much better place to hone your skills than the street. A day at the track would make a rider more confident in their abilities which would provide benefit with their street riding.

UglyDogRacing
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:00 PM
How about we start a thread for the guys that want to learn the track by teaching them how to ride the canyons?

What Bueller said

Ezzzzy1
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:12 PM
So if you show up at a track and ask questions how do you know the person you are asking is reputable and actually has more skills and knowledge than yourself? And yes there is a big difference between the track and the canyons. That said, the track is a much better place to hone your skills than the street. A day at the track would make a rider more confident in their abilities which would provide benefit with their street riding.

And magically people are starting to flock to the tracks to learn how to ride the canyons. I would be willing to bet that NONE of these "new hot rods" are going to show up to the track... Why? Because that is not what interests them. If it were you guys would already be dealing with them on the tracks, not the canyons.

As for knowing who the person is... I guess I have never needed my hand held in situations like this in life. Kinda your own fault if you are not able to see who is good at what and where to go for good information. The same people posting up their "cred" on here should be right there on the track willing to help anyone that looks like they need it.

jrhurt
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:21 PM
Bueller, my problem with trails is just that I don't have the chance to ride them enough! I think I just need some practice time.

I was mainly talking about the track, but my issues actually apply to both. My main problem, other than confidence, is body positioning. Correctly contorting my 6'7" body onto a dirtbike is a challenge. I end up sitting way too much, especially on trails, and get tired very quickly when standing. I have been working on getting the bike set up correctly, but I am sure it has just as much to do with my positioning. I also really struggle with the tight turns, where I grab my brakes in the turn (which I know isn't correct) and come to almost a complete stop and then take off again. I think that mostly has to do with body positioning also.

I am going to the RMXA Day in the Dirt and am hoping to get some instruction there, but as Henry has mentioned, it will probably be so crowded that I don't have a chance to learn much. On a normal day at the track, I have a tough time finding people going my speed to follow.

Ezzzzy1
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:26 PM
Why don't you
I figure someone else will. They will see this conversation, see what we are working on and go post their own up. HEY everyone look what my idea is!

jrhurt
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:26 PM
By the way, if anyone is willing to help on the dirt, I definately wouldn't want you to make a special trip out of it. If you were going to be at one of the tracks anyway, and were willing to follow me for a couple of laps, that would great.

Thanks.

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:29 PM
I figure someone else will. They will see this conversation, see what we are working on and go post their own up. HEY everyone look what my idea is!

You're one butthurt bitch aren't you. Read the first post it states that it was mentioned in other threads......Give me a break go fuck off in another bullshit thread and leave this for what it is. A thread for riders to help riders that want help.

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:45 PM
By the way, if anyone is willing to help on the dirt, I definately wouldn't want you to make a special trip out of it. If you were going to be at one of the tracks anyway, and were willing to follow me for a couple of laps, that would great.

Thanks.

I don't go to the tracks so I can't help much there but when I go to the hills I usually post something up.
There are some rough plans in place to hit Rampart this weekend, probably Saturday am.

Ezzzzy1
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:46 PM
You're one butthurt bitch aren't you. Read the first post it states that it was mentioned in other threads......Give me a break go fuck off in another bullshit thread and leave this for what it is. A thread for riders to help riders that want help.

Nice edit. :loser:

BC14
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 05:54 PM
Yep

Spooph
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 06:03 PM
This is where you have to be honest with yourself, do you think you are ready :lol:


I think I'm ready to show people good street technique. I understand the dynamics of a motorcycle, and I've survived a lot of stupid situations and know what NOT to do. I would feel comfortable showing people how to ride quickly in the canyons - how to NOT brake, how to ride the PACE, and such nonsense, but I'm not comfortable teaching them how to go twice the speed limit, or leapfrog while teaching them, or some such nonsense...

Hrmm, decisions decisions...

UglyDogRacing
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 06:15 PM
And magically people are starting to flock to the tracks to learn how to ride the canyons. I would be willing to bet that NONE of these "new hot rods" are going to show up to the track... Why? Because that is not what interests them. If it were you guys would already be dealing with them on the tracks, not the canyons.

How about the 80+ riders that showed up at the Chicane Day three weeks ago at HPR, majority of them being street riders? They don't have to magically flock to the tracks. They have been going long before you ever started riding and they will be long after.



As for knowing who the person is... I guess I have never needed my hand held in situations like this in life. Kinda your own fault if you are not able to see who is good at what and where to go for good information. The same people posting up their "cred" on here should be right there on the track willing to help anyone that looks like they need it.

You sure needed your hand held while working at Vickery! :lol:
And I don't need to post up my "cred". I've been instructing for the past 6 years and helping riders, both street and on the track, any way I can for much longer than that.
What contributions have you made to the riders on this forum? Fortunately most on here have good judgement and don't pay much attention to you. I just laugh at you. ;)

Zach929rr
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 06:17 PM
Damn ez what's your deal mang?

BC14
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 06:19 PM
I think I'm ready to show people good street technique. I understand the dynamics of a motorcycle, and I've survived a lot of stupid situations and know what NOT to do. I would feel comfortable showing people how to ride quickly in the canyons - how to NOT brake, how to ride the PACE, and such nonsense, but I'm not comfortable teaching them how to go twice the speed limit, or leapfrog while teaching them, or some such nonsense...

Hrmm, decisions decisions...
I read the PACE and watched TotW vol 2, and those helped a bunch. I also tagged along with some pretty quick people on some of my first group rides and that helped a ton as well. I try to avoid the brakes and maintain as constant a speed as I can through the corners, typically on the gas before the apex(smooth is fast). Granted, a track day or 2 would be great, but I feel pretty comfortable where I am now.

Bueller
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 06:21 PM
I don't believe it should be about how to go fast, it should be more of a evaluation of riding skills and a chance to correct the obvious mistakes a newer rider is making. Ultimately you would teach smooth and as many know smooth leads to fast. It also gives them a chance to ask some questions about things that have been on their minds but don't know where to get the answers, some will post questions others may feel less inclined to publicly ask something on here for fear of asking a "dumb" question.
You are giving someone a bit of your experience so that they might not learn something the hard way.

Sully
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 06:32 PM
^^Spooph rides a 250 and often a pink tutu (on girls only rides but still) and he kicks my ass on a regular basis and I have a liter bike LOL so do not be embarrassed by your 250 Luxo.

This is a good example of how the size of your bike doesn't always matter, it's about the skills you've acquired, seat time on your bike (getting to know your bike and how it reacts to different situations) and how you use that knowledge in riding on the street, canyons and track. It doesn't come overnight, it takes a lot of practice and seat time. Seeing how fast you can go up and down die-25 doesn't mean much unless your racing the quarter mile at Bandimere. :)

dirkterrell
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 06:53 PM
Even tho people are seeming to think that the track is the perfect place to get better riding the canyons, practicing there is not really addressing the real issue.

Where is the sand training on the track? How about the "oh shit I am going to fly off the mountain" rush of blood training? Or the "Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off". Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.

Jason Pridmore covered these kinds of things when I took his class a couple of years ago out at HPR. If your teaching skills are limited, you might just focus on race lines at the track, but honestly, that's one of the last things I get to when helping street riders at the track. I think if you took a course like Jason's, you'd see just how limited your view of training at the track really is.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 08:12 PM
I'd rather learn to go the same speed with more in reserve than faster with less in reserve. ;)

brennahm
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 09:38 PM
People seem to be touching on it but here's my $.02...

The track is where you can learn how your bike acts at speed. You become AWARE of what it feels like at more extreme lean angles. You grow MORE accustomed to approaching corners at higher speeds. You BEGIN to learn how to navigate these new situations and instead of panicking, you learn to ride through it and do so enough times so that you gain some familiarity.

Does this teach how to deal with sand in a corner? No, not explicitly. However, it gives you the tools to do so. Instead of being afraid because you're approaching a corner quicker than expected, you say "I'm going too fast for the street, but I've seen this before." You turn in, see the sand, and again instead of freaking out you say "I'll just change my line mid-corner."

No the track is not a substitute for street miles, but it WILL go a LONG way in giving you the tools needed to ride safely. Probably faster than you used to, but more importantly, safer, because you know what to do and have proven to yourself that you're capable of the maneuvers necessary to come through tight situations in one piece.

Troll. :)

rforsythe
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 09:47 PM
Where is the sand training on the track? How about the "oh shit I am going to fly off the mountain" rush of blood training? Or the "Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off".

It's called trying to pass a rider who checks up and swerving, or having to check up yourself (sand training). It's coming too hot into a corner and learning the right way to react, when there isn't a cliff staring you in the face (oh shit, a mountain!). And it's learning how to catch the pack of riders you just lost over the next turn (where'd my buddies go?). There are other things as well, like how to maintain your focus and control the bike when unexpected things happen, etc. I am absolutely a better street rider because I spend time on the track.


Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.Anyone who really feels that way about it is missing a lot! :lol: Corner practice is a highly useful thing and something you will of course gain from track time, but there are skills that apply to riding in that scenario which carry forward to many aspects of performance riding.

rybo
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 10:03 PM
How about the 80+ riders that showed up at the Chicane Day three weeks ago at HPR, majority of them being street riders? They don't have to magically flock to the tracks. They have been going long before you ever started riding and they will be long after.





As the guy who runs those days I have to say that I started doing them for this very reason. I did my first trackday in 2002 just after buying one of my dream bikes. It had exactly 602 miles on it when I took it to the track for the first time. By this time I was on my 3rd street bike and many thousands of miles on the street. I learned a lot about riding on the street at my first trackday.

1) I was pushing way too hard on the street. I was near my own limit out there and as it turns out I was not at all fast. (granted my first trackday instructor was a guy named Aaron Clark, who is moderately fast.)

2) There really are only 4 corner shapes out there. On the track, on the street, everywhere. The track allows you to practice all of those corner shapes lap after lap after lap without the distraction of cars / gravel / wild animals etc.



Jason Pridmore covered these kinds of things when I took his class a couple of years ago out at HPR. If your teaching skills are limited, you might just focus on race lines at the track, but honestly, that's one of the last things I get to when helping street riders at the track. I think if you took a course like Jason's, you'd see just how limited your view of training at the track really is.

+1


I did. Good quote to use to make the point. Anyone wanting track help doesnt need a resume to get it. Show up at the track and ask question. Big difference between the track and the canyons. I dont see anyone getting any real benefit from all this "mentoring" if they are looking to get help with canyon riding and someone wants to show them on the track.

I, for one, appreciate that Dave posted this up regardless of where anyone thinks the idea came from. I've lead a bunch of group rides, run a bunch of trackdays, maybe even done a bit of coaching over the years. I'm not at a point right now where I can do ALL of those things, so I choose to keep offering high quality trackdays in Colorado. Why? Because I think that's where the greatest potential for learning is. I'm not at all surprised to see that the highly experienced riders on here recommend going to the track to practice these kinds of skills.

Now - the choice is really yours. Choose to accept the help that's being offered or don't. Please stop complaining about the fact that the people offering the help aren't doing it "your way". Either learn how to ask for what you need or learn to accept the fact that what you THINK you need and what you ACTUALLY need might be two different things.

Scott

OUTLAWD
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 10:22 PM
People seem to be touching on it but here's my $.02...

The track is where you can learn how your bike acts at speed. You become AWARE of what it feels like at more extreme lean angles. You grow MORE accustomed to approaching corners at higher speeds. You BEGIN to learn how to navigate these new situations and instead of panicking, you learn to ride through it and do so enough times so that you gain some familiarity.

Does this teach how to deal with sand in a corner? No, not explicitly. However, it gives you the tools to do so. Instead of being afraid because you're approaching a corner quicker than expected, you say "I'm going too fast for the street, but I've seen this before." You turn in, see the sand, and again instead of freaking out you say "I'll just change my line mid-corner."

No the track is not a substitute for street miles, but it WILL go a LONG way in giving you the tools needed to ride safely. Probably faster than you used to, but more importantly, safer, because you know what to do and have proven to yourself that you're capable of the maneuvers necessary to come through tight situations in one piece.

Troll. :)

for the love of god...thank you



How about we start a thread for the guys that want to learn the track by teaching them how to ride the canyons?

say wha?


I'd rather learn to go the same speed with more in reserve than faster with less in reserve.

is not the same thing?...it all depends on how fast you want to go

CaptGoodvibes
Mon Jul 11th, 2011, 10:32 PM
This is a good thread. It could be a great thread. If you don't like it, please stop posting. This should be a place for people to get help not for people to bitch and moan about their fucking ego.

Ezzzzy1
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 02:03 AM
Well for what its worth to me the bottom line is, I dont think the people that need "help" in riding the canyons are going to go to the track to get it. People that have never been to the track do not associate "learning" with it, they associate "racing" to it. The people that are speaking up about wanting to learn more are not the problem, yes they are going to become better riders if they take the mentoring but the real problem is the riders that want to learn more and dont but keep going on these rides. Thats what they want to do... Ride canyons in groups. Taking the learning process to them seemed like a natural answer. Plus its rare that a forum vet shows up to a noob organized ride but imagine if they did... Shared some things. Got to meet some of them before they started being asses to them on the boards. I mean thats the reason most people sign up is to meet other riders, right? But when they are put down and criticized they all tend to group together and organize their own rides, then boom. There is your streak of accidents.

I totally agree that learning on a track is valuable, the best guys in the canyons are always the guys that kill it on the track, but you gotta catch that "track bug" or it doesnt make sense. At the same time its crazy to me that apparently everyone thinks that you can not learn the same skills in the canyons with the right direction.

Its the whole chicken and egg thing... Was he a better track rider because of what he learned on the streets or was he a better street rider because of what he learned on the track? Who knows? I dont, but it seems like everyone else does.

Either way if the goal is to help riders thats win/win. Being a noob means a few things and one of them is realizing that having a "different" thought process is ok till someone gets their teeth in ya and the rest of the sharks show up. So respectfully I will keep my opinions to myself. Just know that some of the feedback not posted on this board is that canyon mentoring on the track is a waste of time. I know people that would love the help but are not willing to deal with the "egos" that some of the track guys bring to the table.

So, sorry for the disruption. This is well intended, and should stay that way.

On that note... Leave me out of the rest of this discussion, please.

daemon
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 05:38 AM
or that this person is regarded as a good rider and not an ass.
Hey Cathy....Are you talking about me again....LOL

Great idea Bueller.
Far beyond the reach of something i would imagine you volunteering for.
While i consider myself a "fair" rider.
I still take scrutiny and constructive criticism from fellow riders.
So i guess i am on both sides of this one.
I would like to help some of the lesser experienced riders while getting in some more "do as i do" with better riders...

Bueller
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 06:06 AM
The track is an additional learning tool not a substitute, and not required. We (track riders) are offering some help in this area if someone is interested.

There have been several posts from people indicating a desire for help and hopefully people are responding to these through PM's. I have contacted on of these peeps and am setting up something for this weekend.

mtnairlover
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 07:24 AM
The track is an additional learning tool not a substitute, and not required. We (track riders) are offering some help in this area if someone is interested.

There have been several posts from people indicating a desire for help and hopefully people are responding to these through PM's. I have contacted on of these peeps and am setting up something for this weekend.

Woohoo!

And I remember seeing you at IMI about 5 years ago when I was so very newbish. I still appreciate the advice given.


Hey Cathy....Are you talking about me again....LOL



Ha, ha...nope.

I too, still look for advice and welcome it. Now my learning is in dealing with my extra weight and having to figure out how aggressive I can be without feeling like I'm making my bike slide out from under me. I used to take on mountain corners with ease and almost no fear...these days, I've backed off and feel strange with leaning over. I'm not sure if it is my weight, but I just don't feel the tires are gripping like they used to (although, I don't have the same tires either).

Anyhoo, looks like this thread is filling its purpose.

Spooph
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 08:40 AM
sweet, thanks Bueller! I have the answer I needed, now to get the bike up and running 100%

grim
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 02:47 PM
I havent chimed on this thread yet but now im gonna...

Im no pro by a long shot nobody really is however there are Definitely people in this forum that know what they are doing And from the people i have ridden with there are people here i want to ride with again and just watch how they move their bike and where they position themselves on the bike. Thats the best way for me to learn is by mimic. Follow their line and let it ingrain in my head.

Vellos, Zach, Swift, and Matty are people i have seen ride before which i have already taken pointers from whether they know it or not.

Bueller i would like to go canyon carving with you sometime to see how you handle your bike and get some tips from you. You can type in the forum all you want about do this do that but im not a book smart learner i have to see it and do it in person. And whether some people know it or not thats how they learn also.

asp_125
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 02:54 PM
This: Learning on the track is a controlled environment that will let you practice the correct techniques and skills. But track is not the same as canyons. The fast line on the track may be completely different than say the line needed to take a blind right hander in the canyons with possibility of sand and oncoming traffic. Noobs need to know the difference and ride accordingly.

rybo
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 03:35 PM
This: Learning on the track is a controlled environment that will let you practice the correct techniques and skills. But track is not the same as canyons. The fast line on the track may be completely different than say the line needed to take a blind right hander in the canyons with possibility of sand and oncoming traffic. Noobs need to know the difference and ride accordingly.


I respectfully disagree. The line is the same, it's just that the lane width is different. On the track you can use the whole "road" - in the canyons you're limited to your lane width. Outside to Inside to Outside is the ideal line through the corner. Where you choose to make that apex depends on the corner shape. For sure you should make appropriate adjustments for things like sand or oncomming traffic, but the principles remain the same.

asp_125
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 03:46 PM
Yes the principles are the same, but on the street I'd take a more conservative strategy. Instead of riding the fastest ideal line you sometimes err on the side of caution. FWIW where I choose my apex would be different if I had a blind corner vs one that I can see through, for the same radius corner. The street would result in a less than ideal line. YMMV

But rather than taking up space in this thread, it just points out areas that both mentor and noobs need to understand what advice they are giving/taking.

Spooph
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 03:50 PM
I respectfully disagree. The line is the same, it's just that the lane width is different. On the track you can use the whole "road" - in the canyons you're limited to your lane width. Outside to Inside to Outside is the ideal line through the corner. Where you choose to make that apex depends on the corner shape. For sure you should make appropriate adjustments for things like sand or oncomming traffic, but the principles remain the same.

Although I agree that the line is the same for "fastest", I've learned to ride completely different on the street, for the sake of safety. I think these rules which I've ridden by for a long time should be taken to heart by all newer riders, not because I'm arrogant, but because they've kept me alive and safe in some seriously dangerous situations.

1.) Split your lane into 2 lanes, left and right.
2.) When going around a left-hand turn, ride in the right lane. (since you can see the right side of the road animals and sand should be ID'd easily. This also leaves the most amount of clearance for on-coming cars which might step over the center line)
3.) When going around a right-hand turn, ride in the left lane. (since you can see the left side of the road, oncoming vehicles should be easily ID'd. This leaves the most amount of clearance for sand/animals)
4.) As BWnF puts it - "follow the yellow brick road". Put your front tire a set distance away from either the center yellow line (on right handers), or the white side line (on left handers) and follow the radius of the turn, NOT using out-in-out.
5.) Lean the bike, don't lean your body off the bike. If you have to lean your body off the bike, you're going too fast for the street.
6.) Forget about your brakes. If you have to use your brakes going into a corner, you're going too fast. That should leave plenty of stiction from the tires if you have to panic break for any hazard on the street.

I realize there are many people who don't do this, and by no means am I saying that this is the fastest way up a canyon, but I do think they're some pretty solid rules for less-experienced riders to become comfortable with their tires and grow as safe, quick canyon carvers.

50sGrl
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 04:17 PM
As my contribution to the competing discussions of theory:

I have had the benefit of having both varieties of instruction. Many more experienced riders have been kind enough to offer their opinions, insights and tips to me over the last year, and I feel they (and hours of practice) have been responsible for the gains I've made in riding skill. They have taught me how to deal with declining radius and hairpin blind curves where perhaps I wouldn't take the traditional "apex" line, how to judge what kind of blind curve it might be based on how the yellow lines are converging or not, what speeds might be appropriate for a particular surface, etc. Learning these skills in the twisties themselves was invaluable. And frankly, I don't think I would have felt comfortable on the track 6 months or a year ago.

But I felt ready enough to attend the last Chicane day and am planning to attend the next one as well. And I'm ready to learn a whole new set of skills that the track environment offers, including attempting the proper race lines, pushing speed and lean, learning how to trail brake, etc.

So, it's been my experience that each method or manner of instruction can offer immeasurable benefits to a rider wanting help, and I hope more experienced riders from both the "track" and "twisty" camps will consider offering the benefit of their skills to us lesser riders.

Bueller
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 05:00 PM
Bueller i would like to go canyon carving with you sometime to see how you handle your bike and get some tips from you. You can type in the forum all you want about do this do that but im not a book smart learner i have to see it and do it in person. And whether some people know it or not thats how they learn also.
It will happen at some point, I usually ride with Diego, and that would be a 2 for 1 ;) Right now though it is racing season or dirt bike riding time. I don't spend much time on the street and when I do it's usually teaching my wonderful wife to ride her 250.

This: Learning on the track is a controlled environment that will let you practice the correct techniques and skills. But track is not the same as canyons. The fast line on the track may be completely different than say the line needed to take a blind right hander in the canyons with possibility of sand and oncoming traffic. Noobs need to know the difference and ride accordingly.
You are thinking always about hitting the fastest line on the track but keep in mind conditions change at very high speeds and in the middle of difficult technical maneuvers. You have to adjust from the perfect line constantly on the track unless you are the only one out there.

I respectfully disagree. The line is the same, it's just that the lane width is different. On the track you can use the whole "road" - in the canyons you're limited to your lane width. Outside to Inside to Outside is the ideal line through the corner. Where you choose to make that apex depends on the corner shape. For sure you should make appropriate adjustments for things like sand or oncomming traffic, but the principles remain the same.
And the width of the track can change with traffic so you need to be able negotiate a turn using a non traditional line, which can be a handfull or more.



So, it's been my experience that each method or manner of instruction can offer immeasurable benefits to a rider wanting help, and I hope more experienced riders from both the "track" and "twisty" camps will consider offering the benefit of their skills to us lesser riders.

Ideally people can have multi-mentorin' 8)

Cornfed
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 05:09 PM
This thread seems to have takin a bad turn. I'll be at IMI Thursday the 14th to improve my riding skills and technique. Solo or with a mentor I'm going.

64BonnieLass
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 05:43 PM
David (Bueller) was one of my first teachers as a new rider. I'm still not quite sure, after all these years, why he allowed me to ride with him, but he did.

He taught me sooo much, and with patience.

He was so nice and kind as I'm shaking in my boots, he taught lines, and slowness comes first. Slow makes you faster. Terri..."look where you want to go"..."focus on your line". "Focus on your inputs" It worked.

He still hauls ass (in a nice way and productive way), and I will always be behind him learning.

I hope...for the rest of my life I will have that friend to follow.

He teaches a more "gentlemanly" guide to riding which worked for me. Maybe he teaches Naughty differently. But he's a damn good rider. He's been around the block more then once and knows his shit. I respect him with all of my heart to this very day for being one of my many teachers.

A great many men could stand to be as kind and decent of a rider as David is.

64BonnieLass
Tue Jul 12th, 2011, 06:18 PM
Now - the choice is really yours. Choose to accept the help that's being offered or don't. Please stop complaining about the fact that the people offering the help aren't doing it "your way". Either learn how to ask for what you need or learn to accept the fact that what you THINK you need and what you ACTUALLY need might be two different things.

Scott

Ka-Jizzelll!!!! Not to diminsh his whole post, but this is true.

If you want to REALLY learn how to be better at "anything"...riding, golf, soccor.., then accept you know NOTHING, and just learn. No ego, no other realities. Listening goes a helluva long way. "Listen to the strong riders". "Listen to the softer riders". Mouth shut. Ears open. Listen to everyone around you.

Just learn how to be a better You as a rider.

You may have ridden for 10 years. We all stand to learn, and I believe that is the HEART of any forum anyway. To learn, to gather, to make us better in any way.

Bueller
Wed Jul 13th, 2011, 06:11 AM
Teri, I am really glad that anything I did helped you with your riding, I have never thought I was a very good teacher but it does definitely help to have a good student. I will be happy to ride with you anytime!
BTW Renata is going to do the next Chicane day so she is pretty excited about it.

GixxerCarrie
Wed Jul 13th, 2011, 06:27 AM
Yay Bueller...I had actually mentioned this to GuitarX about a girl we know.

My .02. I have learned more from peeps on this board than any book video, and no I don't want to ride the track.
Bike: 07 GSXR 750
Dirt/Street/Canyon(Dont do dirt any more, compound fractured my toe 6 years ago)
Riding: 5 years

2-3 people max. I learned the most when I was following the leader (line, body position, (no target fixation lol) corners, down shifting and throttling through the corner. And from one in the rear (this sounds bad lol) telling me at stops what I needed to correct.

Peeps I can say thanks to are Diego, Daniel, Sully, Jim Wilson, Sash.
Example: Golden gate with just Sully 1 Ride... Down shifting, throttling through corners, and Putting my lipstick on in my side mirror (as Sully would say).
Example: Diego lead, Daniel swept (damn I cant remember the canyon route but know we started at Moco). All Body position, and line.
Those two rides...were some of the most fun I had, as I learned and everyride after that I felt more confident and better about my abilities..That was 3+ years ago now.

I'm willing to sweep on any 2 person rides.

Really glad you did this Bueller, you rock. Hopefully people take people up on it!

chronicboy
Wed Jul 13th, 2011, 06:54 AM
" If you would like to visit IMI and really learn how to make your bike go around corners it will cost you all of $35 and no real bike prep. And they have fewer rules for rider gear than some of the recent rides posted here. :lol:"

what is this, IMI?
i am buying a track bike this month and am gonna be looking for affordable track time

brennahm
Wed Jul 13th, 2011, 07:59 AM
It's a kart track. However, it's a great learning space because you get to lean your bike without the high speeds involved with full-size road courses.

If you're looking for track time to work on road racing...MIGHT want to look elsewhere.

enabler118
Wed Jul 13th, 2011, 05:49 PM
Seems like this thread got a bit argumentative, but in any case:

I am a noob rider. I've got about 1500 miles under my belt, (just got my tags yesterday, actually) and just ventured into the canyons for the first time last weekend. It was a blast, but I'd love to get some observation and coaching from a more experienced rider.

That being said, I have this weekend off, so if anybody out there would like to join me on an early ride Saturday or Sunday (this coming weekend) send me a PM! I also want to try and make some friends, since most people I know who ride own cruisers.

I for one hope to learn a lot, so thanks in advance!

R1NORI
Thu Jul 14th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Ask for the best mentoring available!!

His name?

Saddle time!!!!

duelist13
Fri Jul 15th, 2011, 03:43 PM
"Im going to slow down even tho the group of 10 is taking off". Anyone that thinks they are going to get any thing more from the track than corner practice is misguided.

Kids... the teacher wants you to go slow, but it's the fastest who gets paid and it's the fastest who gets laid! :boobies:

ATTIKATROL
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 03:12 PM
New to colorado, from florida (flat and straight). Live in estes park, am off on sundays and mondays. Available anytime during those days. I am full ATGATT and already have a bad driving record from cars, so not looking to leave black marks around blind curves. Just want a little guidance to get some more enjoyment from my bike. I consider myself fairly capable, but know that there is room for improvement. This is an awesome idea! I knew Colorado would rock! PM, e-mail, smoke signal, any of these will suffice for contacting me for ride time.

GaribaldiCU
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Bueller, thanks for posting this thread.


I still consider myself a bit of a noob rider. I have just shy of 9000 miles on my bike and am definitely open to any pointers I can get, be it at IMI or on the road. Live just north of Denver in Erie. Timing is flexible. Free most weekends and can often find some time during the week. Any help is much appreciated!

Bueller
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 04:08 PM
I am hoping some people are responding to people here that are asking for help. I met up with LuxoDave on Sunday morning. We had some breakfast and got introduced and talked about what we were trying to accomplish. I had Renata with me and we did some of the close in more technical routes at a speed that comfortable (perhaps a bit slow) and worked on cornering and lines. I had both riders following me for a good part and then I followed Dave down Bear Creek Canyon. At the Conoco we stopped and discussed the ride and what I saw that he could do better. He got to ride some stuff that he had not been on and got some input on some things to work on in the future. This one time will not make a seasoned rider out of him, and hopefully others will offer to ride with him (and others) and impart some experience and knowledge on him. It was just a short ride relatively, but I know it did more good than not.

mtnairlover
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 05:33 PM
I am hoping some people are responding to people here that are asking for help. I met up with LuxoDave on Sunday morning. We had some breakfast and got introduced and talked about what we were trying to accomplish. I had Renata with me and we did some of the close in more technical routes at a speed that comfortable (perhaps a bit slow) and worked on cornering and lines. I had both riders following me for a good part and then I followed Dave down Bear Creek Canyon. At the Conoco we stopped and discussed the ride and what I saw that he could do better. He got to ride some stuff that he had not been on and got some input on some things to work on in the future. This one time will not make a seasoned rider out of him, and hopefully others will offer to ride with him (and others) and impart some experience and knowledge on him. It was just a short ride relatively, but I know it did more good than not.

Nicely done, Dave.

I wonder how many others have worked with newer riders so far?

0N1X
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 05:47 PM
I would definitely like to be mentored and really appreciate this. This is one of the reasons I joined the club as I really want to improve this hobby and take it far.

I have been riding since 2006 but mainly commuting. I've been on a few mountain rides but nothing major. Not been on a track. I also don't have a point of reference to measure myself against however.

I absolutely love motorbikes and freely admit to noob-ness. Can you help a brotha out? :)

I'm open most evenings and weekends. Live in Centennial

DevilsTonic
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 06:14 PM
Big ups to you, Dave! :up: :up: This is a good idea.

I would also recommend that in addition to the advise you'll get here to try the various skill level rider courses at Abate:
http://abate.si2.com/abate/trs.nsf/courses?openform

madvlad
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Big ups to you, Dave! :up: :up: This is a good idea.

I would also recommend that in addition to the advise you'll get here to try the various skill level rider courses at Abate:
http://abate.si2.com/abate/trs.nsf/courses?openform

I plan on doing the intermediate course soon for sure. Learned tons from their basic course and to this day it saves my ass.

DevilsTonic
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 07:33 PM
I plan on doing the intermediate course soon for sure. Learned tons from their basic course and to this day it saves my ass.I've learned tons from their courses as well and it's always good to do a course every couple years to break any bad habits you've developed.

madvlad
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 07:39 PM
I've learned tons from their courses as well and it's always good to do a course every couple years to break any bad habits you've developed.

No doubt, I did my basic course quite some time back now so well due for a refresher lol... would love to do a track day but its an expensive habit lol

LuxoDave
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 09:41 PM
I am hoping some people are responding to people here that are asking for help. I met up with LuxoDave on Sunday morning. We had some breakfast and got introduced and talked about what we were trying to accomplish. I had Renata with me and we did some of the close in more technical routes at a speed that comfortable (perhaps a bit slow) and worked on cornering and lines. I had both riders following me for a good part and then I followed Dave down Bear Creek Canyon. At the Conoco we stopped and discussed the ride and what I saw that he could do better. He got to ride some stuff that he had not been on and got some input on some things to work on in the future. This one time will not make a seasoned rider out of him, and hopefully others will offer to ride with him (and others) and impart some experience and knowledge on him. It was just a short ride relatively, but I know it did more good than not.


I found it extremely helpful and a lot of fun. It is helpful for me to know where I need work.

Vellos
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 10:47 PM
I'm not qualified to help people, so see if any of the MRA racers want to teach you. Cheers.

DevilsTonic
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 10:53 PM
No doubt, I did my basic course quite some time back now so well due for a refresher lol... would love to do a track day but its an expensive habit lolit's been 12 years since I did my beginner course and I'm looking to go do the advanced course in the very near future. Thanks to the mentoring of spiderman and his friend Joe (Jplracing) years ago, my track days were worth their weight in gold and improved my skill exponentially. I can't stress enough the importance of having a knowledgeable and patient mentor. I've been riding sport bikes since 1999, but I still don't feel that I'm totally ready to be the one that new riders look up to.

I give all of you willing mentors props, this is a very important role to play for our impressionable new riders.

Penadam
Tue Jul 19th, 2011, 11:44 PM
Thanks to Vellos' riding plan, I went from this:
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/58739_426295758308_510208308_5051081_4205809_n.jpg
to this in just 2 track days!
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/281201_10100675340858438_13704727_61266327_3062654 _n.jpg

Bueller
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 06:23 AM
If anyone wants to spend the extra $35 to cover my admission to IMI I'll spend four or more hours working with you. In no way is that a bad deal. Send a PM or call/text if you'd like to arrange this.



You should probably work on your own riding rather than trying to teach other people how to go slow. Seriously George you are not ready to be an instructor you are very much still in the learning curve.

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 07:56 AM
I'll call up Rossi and see if he's willing to mentor first year riders in Colorado. :roll:

Actually as I recall I remember asking some old man a few questions when I was at IMI for the first couple times and he totally blew me off. Couldn't even answer where he enters one of the turns. What gear or rpm range he was in. He was 'too good' to help anyone. And now people who are actually genuinely willing to help people that are not as good as the mediocre rider are simply not qualified to help.

It's not like I'm getting paid hundreds of dollars like real instructors do. Get over yourself Dave.

Bueller
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:17 AM
It is very sweet of you to want to help people, but charging $35 to show people how to go around IMI is down right funny. You are taking advise given to you a couple weeks ago by people how have some real experience and regurgitating to new riders for a fee?
If and when you can ride IMI without getting smoked by a 250 then you should try HPR then after a year or so perhaps you can offer some good advice about riding a track.
Stick to your "hosted" rides and try to see if you can keep your disciples up on 2.

Bueller
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:30 AM
BTW George I still luv ya ;)

OUTLAWD
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:39 AM
must be that tough kinda luv...

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:47 AM
I should spend $10 on gas, $10 on lunch, and $35 on entry to help people. :roll: And when's the last time you and I were at IMI together? I've seen minis go around that track faster than you.

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:52 AM
You should probably work on your own riding rather than trying to teach other people how to go slow. Seriously George you are not ready to be an instructor you are very much still in the learning curve.
^^^ This.

I wouldn't even feel comfortable being an instructor at a track. I'll give tips of what I've learned from others, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having someone follow me and do what I do. :no:

Zach929rr
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:53 AM
I've seen minis go around that track faster than you.

I did have a pretty good time passing him on the mini when his 250 was only running on 1 cylinder, until I found out he only had 1 cylinder :lol:.

Bueller
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:55 AM
That just means you are really slow!

Maybe you should have offered me some $ if you wanted help :dunno:

Zach929rr
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:56 AM
Do you accept reach arounds as payment?

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:57 AM
Do you accept reach arounds as payment?
Who doesn't, in this economy?

OUTLAWD
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:58 AM
I'll give tips of what I've learned from others, but I wouldn't feel comfortable having someone follow me and do what I do. :no:

werd.

and I make silly faces when I am helping people...

Exhibit A:







http://wicked-photos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Dave-Nikol-e1311172831538.jpg

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 08:59 AM
I wouldn't even feel comfortable being an instructor at a track.

An instructor and mentor are different things. I'm sure you're capable of noticing if people are crossed up or entering a corner too early.

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:00 AM
Not just when helping people....

grim
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:00 AM
I just wanna see Bueller in the canyons!

Sean
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:00 AM
I'm not going to get in the middle of this, but Bueller does bring up a very good point.

Always know where your info is coming from. It's great that there are so many people willing to help, but when learning, you always want to make sure you are getting good information. The person most willing to help, or the person who gives the most advise, is not always the best person to be teaching. Then again, maybe they are. The only thing I'm saying, is that this is a public forum and anybody can post anything up.

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:02 AM
I should spend $10 on gas, $10 on lunch, and $35 on entry to help people. :roll: And when's the last time you and I were at IMI together? I've seen minis go around that track faster than you.

What are your credentials to justify charging for this?

OUTLAWD
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:04 AM
I just wanna see Bueller in the canyons!

I don't think you'd see him for very long...

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:04 AM
Okay so since I have so much to learn about riding who wants to mentor me?

OUTLAWD
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:05 AM
I'm not going to get in the middle of this, but Bueller does bring up a very good point.

Always know where your info is coming from. It's great that there are so many people willing to help, but when learning, you always want to make sure you are getting good information. The person most willing to help, or the person who gives the most advise, is not always the best person to be teaching. Then again, maybe they are. The only thing I'm saying, is that this is a public forum and anybody can post anything up.


don't listen to this guy...he is so slow he gets rear-ended by Prius' ;)

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:06 AM
An instructor and mentor are different things. I'm sure you're capable of noticing if people are crossed up or entering a corner too early.
I'm crossed up and enter corners too early. :lol: Example: going through turn 3a at HPR, Applehans told me I was turning in too early, so I couldn't get on full throttle going into 3b and thus, effecting my drive onto the back straight. I had no idea the whole day, until he followed me around and told me where I needed to improve. Watching my video from Monday that was pointed at my ass, I could see that my head wouldn't really move to the side, but my body was, and I still need to hang off some more. I was dragging my knee, but still crossed up, which is bad.

So me telling someone else not to do that is crap, because I'm doing the same thing. Hence why I wouldn't feel comfortable doing something like that, and just giving simple tips that I've learned.

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:07 AM
What are your credentials to justify charging for this?
yut ughhhhhh!!!

grim
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:07 AM
I don't think you'd see him for very long...

I dont need to see him for the whole run just the first few turns. So i can see how he handles his bike. Thats the way it was when i rode with Zach929rr but he was on his sumo so that fucker was dust in the wind in the first corner.

Bueller
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:07 AM
An instructor and mentor are different things. I'm sure you're capable of noticing if people are crossed up or entering a corner too early.


What are your credentials to justify charging for this?

I am not saying don't help people with track etiquette or obvious faults with body position or lines but if you plan on charging people you best know what you are talking about.

OUTLAWD
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:08 AM
Okay so since I have so much to learn about riding who wants to mentor me?


Ricky Orlando holds sessions at IMI, Pridmore is coming to HPR soon, Supercamp is good from what I hear...


have you tried riding 190 with your balls out...I heard it works wonders

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:10 AM
Ricky Orlando holds sessions at IMI, Pridmore is coming to HPR soon, Supercamp is good from what I hear...


have you tried riding 190 with your balls out...I heard it works wonders
I ride to the max every time I go out. If I go down, so be it, that's how I ride. :lol:

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:10 AM
So who here wants to spend a whole day with me at a track and I won't give you any compensation for the money/time you have to spend to help me?

grim
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:14 AM
So who here wants to spend a whole day with me at a track and I won't give you any compensation for the money/time you have to spend to help me?

Dude your having a pretty childish attitude considering these guys are trying to give you constructive criticism.

They didn't say don't do it they said Maybe you shouldn't charge people. When you yourself have much to learn. Maybe you can take someone to the track with you pay for yourselves and both learn. Just a thought

Sean
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:16 AM
don't listen to this guy...he is so slow he gets rear-ended by Prius' ;)That's why I'm not throwing riding advise out there. :p

In my years of riding and being part of the CSC, I've built my own filters on who to listen to. Personally, I listen closely when people with black and white number plates give advise. The rest of the "rider insight" I filter out. But that's just me.

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:18 AM
Dude your having a pretty childish attitude considering these guys are trying to give you constructive criticism.

They didn't say don't do it they said Maybe you shouldn't charge people. When you yourself have much to learn. Maybe you can take someone to the track with you pay for yourselves and both learn. Just a thought

I've done that plenty of times you boob. And you're not the one to talk about being childish.

OUTLAWD
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:19 AM
If I am at the track, and someone new shows up and has questions, of course I am going to help them. Will I hold their hand the entire day, no, but I would go over the basic SOP of the track, maybe give them a few sighting laps, give them feedback on things that they are doing that may be hazardous to their health, and field any questions they may have, all the while me making it very clear, that I haven't been doing this very long, and I am not the fastest guy out there by a longshot.

Bueller
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:25 AM
I dont need to see him for the whole run just the first few turns. So i can see how he handles his bike. Thats the way it was when i rode with Zach929rr but he was on his sumo so that fucker was dust in the wind in the first corner.

Well except when I don't feel like a 6+ pt. ticket I can pretty much keep up with the Sumos (dirt roads included :) ). And dead engine coasting down Lookout I WIN! :lol:

Did you watch this (http://vimeo.com/24562808)? This is me on a solo run (didn't know Steve was videoing me) up Bear Creek. I don't haul ass in the straights, and I don't hang off the bike much on the streets.
I do however cover my front brake a lot and trail brake which is why my brake light is on when it really shouldn't be. I learn from watching myself.

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:26 AM
Training is teaching people to do what they don’t know how to do.
Mentoring is showing people how the people who are really good at doing something do it.
Coaching is helping to identify the skills and capabilities that are within the person, and enabling them to use them to the best of their ability.

Which are you trying to do?

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:29 AM
Sarcasm aside. There are about five people on this forum who would meet the newly discovered standards and have enough free time and money to go around giving feedback to new riders. And they would also be hypocritical to not want track admission covered if they were going to spend the whole day with one person. A lot of you guys can talk big and sure you're all more experienced riders but hold your tongue if you aren't willing to help people yourself.

grim
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:31 AM
I've done that plenty of times you boob.

Then keep it up its obviously working! dont try to start charging people for you to do a NICE friendly thing to make people safer riders.



And you're not the one to talk about being childish.


examples please i need a good laugh!

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:34 AM
Mentoring is showing people how the people who are really good at doing something do it.

Which are you trying to do?

"Mentorship refers to a personal developmental relationship in which a more experienced or more knowledgeable person helps a less experienced or less knowledgeable person."


In no way am I an expert rider but I could certainly help someone out who is new to riding or just new to the track.


examples please i need a good laugh!


The cow goes MMMOOOOO

Zach929rr
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:41 AM
Sumos (dirt roads included :) ).


:headbang:



And dead engine coasting down Lookout I WIN! :lol:


We need to do that again. Good times.

grim
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:46 AM
"Mentorship refers to a personal developmental relationship in which a more experienced or more knowledgeable person helps a less experienced or less knowledgeable person."

Really :lol: cmon vellos that's not being childish that's being goofy and slightly retarded!

Theres a difference between goofing off, and being childish and throwing a tantrum i would know cause i have a kid this:


So who here wants to spend a whole day with me at a track and I won't give you any compensation for the money/time you have to spend to help me?

is pretty obvious what your doing.

and the cow does go mmmoooo what of it?

grim
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:49 AM
Well except when I don't feel like a 6+ pt. ticket I can pretty much keep up with the Sumos (dirt roads included :) ). And dead engine coasting down Lookout I WIN! :lol:

Did you watch this (http://vimeo.com/24562808)? This is me on a solo run (didn't know Steve was videoing me) up Bear Creek. I don't haul ass in the straights, and I don't hang off the bike much on the streets.
I do however cover my front brake a lot and trail brake which is why my brake light is on when it really shouldn't be. I learn from watching myself.

Ive been doing the recording on my bike, haven't had anyone behind me yet with a gopro so i dont know what i look like. Im certain there are things i can change that would allow me to ride a little bit faster but at the moment i am comfortable at the speeds i go untill i learn more.

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:49 AM
I've actually almost given up on helping people in the canyons. The last person I tried to help, or give some advice to, said that she liked the way she rode and was just fine. So yeah, I don't give it, unless asked.

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:52 AM
Sarcasm aside. There are about five people on this forum who would meet the newly discovered standards and have enough free time and money to go around giving feedback to new riders. And they would also be hypocritical to not want track admission covered if they were going to spend the whole day with one person.

Please elaborate on these newly discovered standards. You're really stuck on trying to get paid for all of this somehow. Nothing wrong with trying to capitalize as long as your skills and experience warrants it. You could be greatest rider on the planet yet if you don't have the ability to evaluate another rider and convey constructive feedback to them, you are wasting their time and yours. Spending an entire day on a track with someone isn't very beneficial. A rider is going to learn the most from their bike and seat time. Having someone more experienced do some coaching is beneficial, but they don't need to spend the entire day with them. I think John (Mothergoose) experienced this on Monday and elaborated in an earlier post.



A lot of you guys can talk big and sure you're all more experienced riders but hold your tongue if you aren't willing to help people yourself.

Who is this directed at? I think Bueller has helped more riders, free of charge, than anyone else I know.

rapparee
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:53 AM
Is this thread about mentoring or butthurt egos? I can't tell anymore. Good on ya Dave (and anyone else) that takes the time to help out a fellow rider.

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 09:54 AM
I've actually almost given up on helping people in the canyons. The last person I tried to help, or give some advice to, said that she liked the way she rode and was just fine. So yeah, I don't give it, unless asked.


Lol I wonder who that could be.....

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:07 AM
Good luck to you guys and your pretentious mentoring. I'll no longer offer riding advice as I am not capable of dragging helmet yet.

madvlad
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:07 AM
it's been 12 years since I did my beginner course and I'm looking to go do the advanced course in the very near future. Thanks to the mentoring of spiderman and his friend Joe (Jplracing) years ago, my track days were worth their weight in gold and improved my skill exponentially. I can't stress enough the importance of having a knowledgeable and patient mentor. I've been riding sport bikes since 1999, but I still don't feel that I'm totally ready to be the one that new riders look up to.

I give all of you willing mentors props, this is a very important role to play for our impressionable new riders.

Dang and I thought my 5 years was long lol... yea definitely looking forward to perhaps learning tons more from these guys in these years to come for sure. Always room for improvement.

Mother Goose
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:15 AM
Good luck to you guys and your pretentious mentoring. I'll no longer offer riding advice as I am not capable of dragging helmet yet.
I drug my helmet once...... on 6th Ave.

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:16 AM
I drug my helmet once...... on 6th Ave.

:lol:

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:17 AM
Good luck to you guys and your pretentious mentoring. I'll no longer offer riding advice as I am not capable of dragging helmet yet.

How is anyone that has actually offered help in this thread being pretentious?

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:18 AM
How is anyone that has actually offered help in this thread being pretentious?

Are you offering help, or just trolling?

Snowman
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Yep I’m up for this…

I’m typically out every weekend running the canyons between 7 and Deer Creek that is not a race weekend. I know I have never stopped learning how to handle a motorcycle. Last time I dropped a street bike was March of 2000, last ticket June 2006 for 60 in a 45. I ride the Parker Road (of death) every day to work. I'm open of this most weekends I'm not racing, I typically go ride around 9am.

Year started riding: 1974 (37 Years)
Dirt experienced? 1974 to 1980 (6 Years)
Street experienced? 1980 to Current (31 Years)
Mountain road experienced? 1991 to Current (20 Years)
Track experienced? 2008 to Current (3 Years)
Streetluge experienced? 1997 to 2000 (4 Years)
Male/female: Male (47 Years)

dirkterrell
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:21 AM
I drug my helmet once...

Me too. Turn 7 at PMP trying to make a pass to win a race. :D

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/%7Eterrell/bikes/trashed_arai.jpg

Lesson learned about having proper front end setup...

grim
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:25 AM
Yep I’m up for this…

I’m typically out every weekend running the canyons between 7 and Deer Creek that is not a race weekend. I know I have never stopped learning how to handle a motorcycle

Year started riding: 1974 (37 Years)
Dirt experienced? 1974 to 1980 (6 Years)
Street experienced? 1980 to Current (31 Years)
Mountain road experienced? 1991 to Current (20 Years)
Track experienced? 2008 to Current (3 Years)
Male/female: Male (47 Years)


About what time snowman?

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:26 AM
Are you offering help, or just trolling?

Read post 43 in this thread.

http://www.stuffyouwillhate.com/wp-content/uploads/butthurt.png

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:28 AM
Haha. So when do we start coach?

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:29 AM
Haha. So when do we start coach?

HPR Monday morning @ 7:30am

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:35 AM
Don't I need water instead of coolant to go to HPR?

And I do volunteer work for children Monday mornings.

Ghost
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:36 AM
Don't I need water instead of coolant to go to HPR?

Yep. Water + Water Wetter (only) in the radiator, tape up or remove all lights/signals & mirrors.

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:38 AM
Gear requirements for a trackday?

Sean
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:42 AM
Gear requirements for a trackday?
Check here for general info. Link (http://chicanetrackdays.com/how.html) If UglyDogRacing is willing to work with you, that should be sufficient "certification." At least I think so.

If you don't have certain things, post up and I'd be happy to hook you up. I have painters tape for lights too.

UglyDogRacing
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:43 AM
Don't I need water instead of coolant to go to HPR?

And I do volunteer work for children Monday mornings.

Ok maybe another time.

Ghost
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:43 AM
Motorcycles
* Water cooled motorcycles must not use any type of glycol in the cooling system. Water and “Water Wetter” is acceptable.
* Motorcycles must have rear view mirrors either removed or covered with tape. HPR recognized instructors are exempted from this requirement.
* Full face helmets are required. Hinged full face helmets are not allowed.
* Motorcycle riders must wear full 1 piece or 2 piece leathers. 2 piece suits must zip all the way around at the waist. Textile suits are not allowed.
* Boots that cover the ankle and gloves that cover the wrist are required.
* Passengers are NOT allowed on ANY motorcycle.

http://highplainsraceway.com/pdf/HPR-Lapping-Day-Policies.pdf

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:48 AM
So gauntlet gloves? I only have the SMX-2 Air Carbon. Been wanting to get SP-1s anyway.

Sean
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Size?

Ghost
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:53 AM
So gauntlet gloves? I only have the SMX-2 Air Carbon. Been wanting to get SP-1s anyway.

Yep, gauntlets.

SP-1s are a good option, I've ridden in Alpinestars since I started riding, just get one size LARGER than normal since they seem to run small.

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:55 AM
XL but I'll probably just buy the SP-1s as I have to go to RMK anyway and made a couple hundred selling some of my old stuff.

Snowman
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:55 AM
Performance has a large selection. Try them all on to find what works for you then go online to find the best deal. (Size is always and issue with motorcycle equipment.)

Sean
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 10:59 AM
XL but I'll probably just buy the SP-1s as I have to go to RMK anyway and made a couple hundred selling some of my old stuff.
Okay, but just so you know, I have XL's too. I'm in Boulder four days a week and can meet you if you want.

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Performance didn't have the SP-1s otherwise I would have picked them up when I got my back protector. Thanks Sean, I'll let you know if I can't purchase my own.

Ghost
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:02 AM
Performance didn't have the SP-1s otherwise I would have picked them up when I got my back protector. Thanks Sean, I'll let you know if I can't purchase my own.

I don't actually see it listed as a requirement, but if you're hitting the track you really should get a back protector too.

jrhurt
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:06 AM
Thanks again to Bueller for the dirt help. Watching the video helps quite a bit, it is hard to tell what you are doing in the heat of the moment. Thanks.

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:06 AM
I did get a back protector. ;) Due to my recent back injury. :(

Ted
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:08 AM
XL but I'll probably just buy the SP-1s as I have to go to RMK anyway and made a couple hundred selling some of my old stuff.

No love for CoPwrSprts here in town ?

Vellos
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:09 AM
I'd rather go the 15 minutes to Longmont to get good service.

Ghost
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:10 AM
I did get a back protector. ;) Due to my recent back injury. :(

Back injuries suck. Mine was 10+ years ago and it's never been right since.

Bueller
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 11:34 AM
Thanks again to Bueller for the dirt help. Watching the video helps quite a bit, it is hard to tell what you are doing in the heat of the moment. Thanks.
You are welcome Joe. I know there was way too many bikes there to do much, but at least we did some video and an eyeball on you for a bit.
Hope I wasn't too pretentious for you. :)

Spooph
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 01:03 PM
K, I'm out as a mentor. I haz not the skillz yet.

Slo
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 01:30 PM
Just wanted to chime in and say thanks to people like Bueller, jim wilson, mike applehans, along with many other like dirk and other csc members from 3 years back. Theres a ton of good advice/help available through this forum. Just hard in the beginning figuring out who really knows what they are doing.....and harder to find the people that can help you actually apply this new knowledge.

I think i picked at buellers brain for weeks on end haha......

FZRguy
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 01:41 PM
Performance has a large selection. Try them all on to find what works for you then go online to find the best deal. (Size is always and issue with motorcycle equipment.)

Not a very good way to support a local shop that supports this club and the Colorado motorcycle community. If you're going to take advantage of their inventory, don't be an ass, buy it there.

OUTLAWD
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 03:09 PM
+1 its not worth the hassle and wait to save a few bucks by buying online IMO

Slo
Wed Jul 20th, 2011, 05:43 PM
Not a very good way to support a local shop that supports this club and the Colorado motorcycle community. If you're going to take advantage of their inventory, don't be an ass, buy it there.

Didnt know they offer any type of CSC discount?

GixxerCarrie
Fri Jul 22nd, 2011, 04:05 AM
Not a very good way to support a local shop that supports this club and the Colorado motorcycle community. If you're going to take advantage of their inventory, don't be an ass, buy it there.

Why save money in this economy? :mrt:

Bueller
Fri Jul 22nd, 2011, 06:17 AM
If everyone did the try on @ local shops and then buys off the internet, there would not be any local shops to try on.
With that said can this thread go back to riding?

PunyJuney
Fri Jul 22nd, 2011, 07:05 AM
Performance has a large selection. Try them all on to find what works for you then go online to find the best deal. (Size is always and issue with motorcycle equipment.)

Guilty of this myself and I do agree that we should support our local shops. I have purchased from Performance when it was a little less expensive on line. I wonder if Performance would match pricing or come close if asked? I know I found a few things on line and forwarded a request to 303 Cycle and he got the product at the same price for me. True I have to drag my lazy ass to the store, but the boys are so nice and traffic on 285 is a rare treat for me :scramble:

duelist13
Fri Jul 22nd, 2011, 11:34 AM
I've been getting great mentoring from doing the minimoto races, gratis for showing up and being really slow. So far I have learned these things:

1. Don't trail brake as an alternative to having a better line
2. Look up the "road" and have a plan (thanks bob)
3. Mechanical things (thanks a ton chris and kevin)
4. Don't be lazy hanging off (thanks hammer)
5. What cornholing means (thanks brad)

Spooph
Fri Jul 22nd, 2011, 12:34 PM
I've been getting great mentoring from doing the minimoto races, gratis for showing up and being really slow. So far I have learned these things:

1. Don't trail brake as an alternative to having a better line
2. Look up the "road" and have a plan (thanks bob)
3. Mechanical things (thanks a ton chris and kevin)
4. Don't be lazy hanging off (thanks hammer)
5. What cornholing means (thanks brad)

thanks for sharing and explaining these things so that us other noobs will also know what you're talking about....

duelist13
Fri Jul 22nd, 2011, 01:18 PM
thanks for sharing and explaining these things

Not my job, nobody paid me yet :P

Vellos
Sat Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:10 AM
Got water wetter, ordered SP-1 gloves.

CaptGoodvibes
Sat Jul 23rd, 2011, 12:54 AM
That minimoto looks fun!!! How much can I weight and still be satisfied with last place?

duelist13
Sat Jul 23rd, 2011, 01:17 AM
That minimoto looks fun!!! How much can I weight and still be satisfied with last place?

You can weigh as much as you want?

duelist13
Sat Jul 23rd, 2011, 01:34 AM
And don't worry about being last, I'm currently last (probably will be for a while) and even with fuel spraying out my carb, I'm still having a blast :).

G35CO
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 12:54 PM
Thank you for a great idea!!
I’m looking for street and IMI mentoring. I start riding in 2008 and I rode almost 15k miles, 90% of it is canyon riding. I never attend a track day or been to IMI. I ride with full gear all the time and read several riding books. Thanks!!

Slo
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 01:03 PM
Thank you for a great idea!!
I’m looking for street and IMI mentoring. I start riding in 2008 and I rode almost 15k miles, 90% of it is canyon riding. I never attend a track day or been to IMI. I ride with full gear all the time and read several riding books. Thanks!!

If your looking for basics for IMI, I could probably help you out among several other people.

Just starting with a few simple things like getting on and off the track safely, moving onto track etiquette, some basic "do's and donts", then onto lines, a little on body positioning and such.

G35CO
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 01:48 PM
If your looking for basics for IMI, I could probably help you out among several other people.

Just starting with a few simple things like getting on and off the track safely, moving onto track etiquette, some basic "do's and donts", then onto lines, a little on body positioning and such.
Sounds great, thanks! I’ll PM you my info so we can work on date and time

Vellos
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 02:09 PM
Let me know if you're going Slo. I could use maybe one session of mentoring if you can spare it.

Slo
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 02:18 PM
Let me know if you're going Slo. I could use maybe one session of mentoring if you can spare it.

No problem at all.... will definitely let you know. It will be soon, I am on the lookout for some tires and about to shake the dust and spiders outta my leathers haha.

Vellos
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 02:32 PM
I think Brad would like to go Friday. Works for me too.

brennahm
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 02:37 PM
Any chance you guys go Sat?

WolFeYeZ
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 02:43 PM
Any chance you guys go Sat?

Aren't there going to be a Sumos Sunday, thus lots of them on Saturday?

Edit: It would be my first day there, thus I don't want too much crowd :P

Slo
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 02:46 PM
I won't make it there by this coming weekend that is for sure. Questionable for the next one though, will let you know.

brennahm
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 02:56 PM
Aren't there going to be a Sumos Sunday, thus lots of them on Saturday?

Edit: It would be my first day there, thus I don't want too much crowd :P

Normally I would guess so, but that seems to have stopped this year. Plus we just raced there a week ago so most people won't feel the need to practice more.

Bueller
Mon Jul 25th, 2011, 03:00 PM
I *might* be headed there Thurs. w/wife to try and get her some more track time before Chicane.

Spooph
Tue Jul 26th, 2011, 11:03 AM
Not my job, nobody paid me yet :P

From that logic I guess you're being paid to be ass then... :vader:

duelist13
Tue Jul 26th, 2011, 11:14 AM
From that logic I guess you're being paid to be ass then... :vader:

Funny, I thought you were the ass :). Guess it takes one to know one.

Ted
Tue Jul 26th, 2011, 11:52 AM
From that logic I guess you're being paid to be ass then... :vader:


Funny, I thought you were the ass :). Guess it takes one to know one.

.... Time for a beer summit ....... ?? so thread can stay on track ????

G35CO
Tue Jul 26th, 2011, 02:58 PM
No problem at all.... will definitely let you know. It will be soon, I am on the lookout for some tires and about to shake the dust and spiders outta my leathers haha.
What tires size you need? Never mind got my answer yesterday.

JohnMaguire
Thu Jul 28th, 2011, 09:01 PM
I'd love to ride with someone more experienced and hopefully learn a few things! I've been riding an '86 gsxr750 for the last three years and have recently switched to a 08 zx10R. I think I ride safe and I'm not looking to get killed but I'm sure I could learn a lot from someone who has been riding the canyons for a while.

OUTLAWD
Mon Aug 1st, 2011, 05:32 PM
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=594256#post594256

06R1
Wed Aug 24th, 2011, 02:52 PM
If your looking for basics for IMI, I could probably help you out among several other people.

Just starting with a few simple things like getting on and off the track safely, moving onto track etiquette, some basic "do's and donts", then onto lines, a little on body positioning and such.


So, would consider doing some of this again? I just got my leathers in and want to start riding on a track but need to have some wisdom imparted so as to lessen my total embarassment(of which I am fully aware will happen) or getting my ass kicked for doing something stupid...
:horse:

Ghost
Wed Aug 24th, 2011, 03:52 PM
http://img.tgfb.net/drama/src/130528286141.jpg

Bueller
Wed Aug 24th, 2011, 04:04 PM
So, would consider doing some of this again? I just got my leathers in and want to start riding on a track but need to have some wisdom imparted so as to lessen my total embarassment(of which I am fully aware will happen) or getting my ass kicked for doing something stupid...
:horse:
Can you go on weekdays or only weekends?

A lot of the track people will be at HPR this weekend for the races, which would make for some great spectating if you want to see some track riding. And then on Labor day there is the Chicane track day. After that there will probably be another IMI day.

MisterDeadman
Wed Aug 31st, 2011, 06:29 PM
Hello All,

If anyone is available, I'd be really appreciative of some pointers from one of you. I live in Littleton and I'm confined to the street (for the next few weeks) since I dont have racing boots. Friday, Saturday and Sunday are usually fairly flexible for me, but a little notice is always good - we all make plans, right? I ride a Ninja 250, so I'll definately be on the slow side even when I (finally) get it right!

Just give me a little heads up on when and where works for you and I'll get back to you promptly.

Thanks,
Jim

06R1
Wed Sep 7th, 2011, 01:17 PM
Can you go on weekdays or only weekends?

A lot of the track people will be at HPR this weekend for the races, which would make for some great spectating if you want to see some track riding. And then on Labor day there is the Chicane track day. After that there will probably be another IMI day.
I can do some weekdays. I know weekends are usually full with carters. I wasnt able to make it out to HPR this weekend because of trip to Apsen that killed my chances at the track day with Chicane. So whenever the next IMI day is hit me up...

Wheezy
Wed Sep 7th, 2011, 01:30 PM
I have not been riding long but would like to get some advice from people who have. I have been in the canyons 3 times and it can be nerve racking and i want to get some more confidence up there. I hade a close call on one bike and i find myself gun shy in certain places.

Jmetz
Wed Sep 7th, 2011, 01:59 PM
If it's nerve racking and you're having close calls it sounds like you're going too fast for your skill. Dint be affraid to slow down and work on things. Body position, looking through, setting entry speeds, leaning, etc.

AOK303
Wed Sep 7th, 2011, 02:22 PM
WHEEZY best advice would be to hook up with someone that will take you at a calm safe pace for your skill so you can practice, i was in the same spot as you i lucked out and the first couple of canyon runs i went on had some awesome help from some advance riders. hopefully someone will pm you and help ya out, i would but a noob helping a noob is not the best help