Don't Crash Saturday 7/23

[Vellos]

MoCo 9:15 KSU 9:30. Squaw Pass (9,807) and up Mt. Evans (14,265) for those who haven't done or those who like to do passes for the scenery. Then on down to Lyons...

I'll probably crash.

[bendavis]

http://isert.net/gif/popcorn.gif

[BC14]

MoCo 9:15 KSU 9:30. Squaw Pass (9,807) for those who haven't done or those who like to do passes for the scenery. Then on down to Lyons...

I'll probably crash.
:roll:

[vort3xr6]

http://isportsweb.com/wp-content/uploads//2011/06/toharassingfans-cowboys.jpg

[Swift]

Matty tackled Squaw last week and said it sucked big donkey balls.

[grim]

are you fing kidding me i was gonna post to go to mt Evans on Saturday but guess what it wasn't gonna be a 930 KSU I would go on your run with you but i have to be home by 10.

[Vellos]

Squaw sucks if you're trying to go fast. Doing it for scenery, and there are other roads on this ride.

Mt. Evans cost dorra dorra bills.

[grim]

Squaw sucks if you're trying to go fast. Doing it for scenery, and there are other roads on this ride.

Mt. Evans cost dorra dorra bills.


I didn't mean I'm gong all the way to mt Evans just taking squaw pass

[madvlad]

What time you riding at grim-o? I have to be at work by 8 so would be down for an in early ride before going

[grim]

What time you riding at grim-o? I have to be at work by 8 so would be down for an in early ride before going

I'll have my post and route up tomorrow you know how my runs are lol

[madvlad]

Okay, well sorry about the thread jack lol

[enabler118]

I promise I'll do my best not to crash.

[Swift]

You already replaced the N500?

[Ted]

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/926495/eating-popcorn-o.gif

Y'all ride safe .....

[Vellos]

Gtfo my thread faggots.

[sfarson]

BTW, Mt. Evans is free if you tell the attendant you're just riding to the top and then turning around. The fee is intended for those using the facilities like the Mt. Goliath Natural (Bristlecone Pine) Area.

[grim]

Gtfo my thread faggots.

ok zach your a little late!

[Swift]

http://stephencjensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/brick-loud-noises-b.jpg

[madvlad]

http://stephencjensen.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/brick-loud-noises-b.jpg

So much win... lol

[Ezzzzy1]

By "crash" he means "run out of heroin" and trust me.... You dont want to be around when that happens, it aint pretty

[Swift]

I knew he was a junkie!

[madvlad]

And when they said "no crash or jitter" oh they lied.

[Ezzzzy1]

Gtfo my thread faggots.

Rookies.... This is how you jack a thread...!

What the hell did everyone do when the server was being upgraded last night?

[Vellos]

BTW, Mt. Evans is free if you tell the attendant you're just riding to the top and then turning around. The fee is intended for those using the facilities like the Mt. Goliath Natural (Bristlecone Pine) Area.

Thanks Steve, Adam was telling me the same thing earlier today. Changed the route to go up Mt. Evans just to piss grim off and filter out the sissies.



What the hell did everyone do when the server was being upgraded last night?

Porn?

[Zenshu]

Rookies.... This is how you jack a thread...!

What the hell did everyone do when the server was being upgraded last night?

Searched the internet for things I will never be able to afford...like a personal yacht with a built in Motocross track

[WolFeYeZ]

Mra forum and craigslist motorcycle.

I may be in for this ride GEorge.

[Vellos]

I'll bring Swift gloves and you can bring mine.

[Ted]

Rookies.... This is how you jack a thread...!

What the hell did everyone do when the server was being upgraded last night?

Well, i found refuge at gixxer.com .

[grim]

Thanks Steve, Adam was telling me the same thing earlier today. Changed the route to go up Mt. Evans just to piss grim off and filter out the sissies.



:lol: you cant piss me off vellos I have a 1 and a half year old little girl who can talk shit better than you!!

Since im going to go waaaaaay before you do i will give a heads up if there are any issues that you may want to watch out for. Only because i care!

[WolFeYeZ]

I'll bring Swift gloves and you can bring mine.

Too bad your parents Are already in possession of said gloves :P

[Vellos]

Too bad your parents Are already in possession of said gloves :P

Thanks for saying hi to me. :321:

[WolFeYeZ]

Thanks for saying hi to me. :321:

We did a nice "VARRROOM" outside your apartment. I do believe that counts :)

[koru]

it brings a tear to my eye seeing all this love and caring for each other!

[OUTLAWD]

Well, i found refuge at gixxer.com .

why waste your time

[thesavidge1]

I think I may just have to pop my csc cherry on this ride, I'm getting a little lonesome with all the solo rides.

[Penadam]

I've come up with a foolproof way to prevent crashes on Vellos' rides. This way, they can get the dick measuring contest out of the way before the ride.
http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/620/4139ruler.jpg

[Swift]

Maybe it should be one of these so we can get the girth too
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/archive/5/53/20101007205152%21Soft_ruler.jpg/200px-Soft_ruler.jpg

[Penadam]

Maybe it should be one of these so we can get the girth too
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/archive/5/53/20101007205152%21Soft_ruler.jpg/200px-Soft_ruler.jpg
The truth is, girth doesn’t really matter. What does matter is: length times diameter, plus weight over girth, divided by angle of of the tip squared. And so, by dividing the weight and the girth of the penis by the angle or the — what do we call it again? The yaw. The yaw of the shaft. What we finally get is the adjusted penis size, or T.M.I.. Any questions so far?

[bendavis]

The truth is, girth doesn’t really matter. What does matter is: length times diameter, plus weight over girth, divided by angle of of the tip squared. And so, by dividing the weight and the girth of the penis by the angle or the — what do we call it again? The yaw. The yaw of the shaft. What we finally get is the adjusted penis size, or T.M.I.. Any questions so far?

whats a penis?

[Swift]

I completely forgot about that episode of south park. lol

[Sully]

damn, looks like I'm out then! :jerkoff:


I've come up with a foolproof way to prevent crashes on Vellos' rides. This way, they can get the dick measuring contest out of the way before the ride.
http://www.faqs.org/photo-dict/photofiles/list/620/4139ruler.jpg

[Vellos]

Saturday is lookin' to be sunny with no wind or rain, perfect for going up in elevation!

[koru]

Isnt that ruler a little long.

[Swift]

To any n00bs thinking of coming along:

You WILL get hurt. Be it by a stone being thrown up from the road into your knee, sliding across the pavement because you were riding over your head, or me beating the ever loving shit out of you for riding out of your element.

So, don't come on this ride.
K? K.

[WolFeYeZ]

To any n00bs thinking of coming along:

You WILL get hurt. Be it by a stone being thrown up from the road into your knee, sliding across the pavement because you were riding over your head, or me beating the ever loving shit out of you for riding out of your element.

So, don't come on this ride.
K? K.

OH I AM SO IN NOW! :bananna:

[Vellos]

Errr can we just have a normal ride thread? Anyone is welcome to come and as long as you're level headed you'll be fine.

[grim]

Errr can we just have a normal ride thread? Anyone is welcome to come and as long as you're level headed you'll be fine.

your just as guilty for trolling other ride threads as people are of yours.

[Swift]

Obviously not because every time we try to have a normal thread or ride someone comes out of nowhere and wrecks.

[Vellos]

It's getting old. Come up with some new material and that's fine. Need to work on your trolling etiquette.

[grim]

in all seriousness vellos if there are any issues or things that may cause an issue for your ride that I come across i will give you the heads up when i get back to moco since I will be back there before your run starts.

[RSV4]

MoCo 9:15 KSU 9:30. Squaw Pass (9,807) and up Mt. Evans (14,265) for those who haven't done or those who like to do passes for the scenery. Then on down to Lyons...

I'll probably crash.
Hello Vellos!
I'm Louis, don't know you yet, new on the site, and I'm an experienced rider. I'd like to take you up on this offer and ride with you Saturday, I'll be there at moco by 9.
720-530-3936

[Vellos]

Cool beans Louis.

[Ezzzzy1]

Soooooo we have the official 'dick measuring' results! AAAAND the winner is........

VELLOS!!!!!!!

Grim put together a fierce fight, even throwing together some low blows at the end but Vellos takes the cup because this was his thread.

:up:

[rangergixxer]

Yo Vellos! We met at the newb bbq. I don't mind tagging along but I might not be able to knock the rust off in time for the ride. :jerkoff:

I get off work at 8am, so I'll just ride straight up to Moco, but first, I have a funny little question...where's Moco? :dunno: I guess I look pretty dumb, but if I wanna ride with you, I gotta ask.

Also, how long is the ride round trip? Are we taking the road by the Bergen Park ParknRide?

Holla back yo, lemme know!
--------------------------------------------
720-323-6498 - Cell

"Ambition is the germ from which all growth of nobleness proceeds."
Oscar Wilde (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde117771.html)

[Zach929rr]

MoCo = Conoco located off C470 and Morrison Rd.

[rangergixxer]

Thanks for the clarification my good man. Now i not so stupid nemore!

[GixxerCarrie]

For Noobs that choose to go all the way up to Mt. Evans. Be warned...MAJOR hairpins up top, with a lane and a half to ride on, they all think they own the road. Add Hikers, Peddlers. And you get about an inch of space. Just did it a month ago.

[rangergixxer]

For Noobs that choose to go all the way up to Mt. Evans. Be warned...MAJOR hairpins up top, with a lane and a half to ride on, they all think they own the road. Add Hikers, Peddlers. And you get about an inch of space. Just did it a month ago.


Noob to club, not riding, but thanks for the advice. I always maintain that fine line between safety and crazy:rock:

I'm bored outta my gourd!!!! Having bike withdrawals! Need Cyclodone!!!:scream2:

[Vellos]

We turn off before Bergen Park. And yes we'll not be railing it through Squaw or Mt. Evans especially.

[kat.luvs.sportbikes]

For Noobs that choose to go all the way up to Mt. Evans. Be warned...MAJOR hairpins up top, with a lane and a half to ride on, they all think they own the road. Add Hikers, Peddlers. And you get about an inch of space. Just did it a month ago.

Ahhh crap! Do i need a paintball gun for this ride?! :bananna:

[oh10raven]

Have a good ride guys.

[Swift]

It's getting old. Come up with some new material and that's fine. Need to work on your trolling etiquette.
http://spacereptilesareyourfriend.com/images/sean-connery-your-mom-whore.jpg

[Ted]

^ I get offended when anyone's Mom is called a Whore ......

[grim]

^ I get offended when anyone's Mom is called a Whore ......

Yea but its Sean Connery calling his mom a whore...

[koru]

So im thinking of going but im not sure if its cool or if i had to crash on one of your rides before or what the deal is but im there may god have mercy on my soul:devil1:

[Vellos]

I changed all my suspension settings and haven't done a test ride yet so this will be fun!

[Blue]

George:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/%21ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gDfxMDT8MwRydLA1cj72 BTFxdjAwjQL8h2VAQAlu7VZA%21%21/?ss=110210&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=7686&navid=120000000000000&pnavid=null&position=Alerts&ttype=alerts&pname=Arapaho%20&%20Roosevelt%20National%20Forests%20Pawnee%20Natio nal%20Grassland-%20Alerts%20&%20Notices

:(

-Brad

[Vellos]

Yeah saw that. Probably will skip Mt. Evans but Squaw will be nice.

[koru]

still down see you all there

[rangergixxer]

I lost my babysitter and I promised I'd take the wife, so it looks like I can't go. Sorry guys, next week FO SHO!:sniper:

And, this is the 69th post!!! HA HA SUCKERS!

[grim]

Mad pad and myself just got off squaw pass the ride up is great But be careful coming down after the newly paved roads there is quite a bit of gravel and the road is bumpy as shit. Have a good ride and be safe

[Blue]

George:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/%21ut/p/c4/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gDfxMDT8MwRydLA1cj72 BTFxdjAwjQL8h2VAQAlu7VZA%21%21/?ss=110210&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=7686&navid=120000000000000&pnavid=null&position=Alerts&ttype=alerts&pname=Arapaho%20&%20Roosevelt%20National%20Forests%20Pawnee%20Natio nal%20Grassland-%20Alerts%20&%20Notices

:(

-Brad

wtf.....Brad use your own computer. -_- :cussing:

[cbrjohnny]

was sad to see koru go down on the second corner of the ride today, but there was nothing he could do. it was an accident and he was fine, other than a little rr. the bike is not so good but it can be fixed. i think the rubber was not warmed up yet and thats all, i was right behind him and we were not running hard at all. so no apologies to the members needed, he had his gear on and went down.

i stuck around as long as i could waiting for his ride out of there, thanks zach for hanging out too...got to know koru a little hanging out on the side of the road so that was good!

if i had put this ride together i would have been there till the end (hint hint)

[grim]

Glad he's ok sucks he went down

[Ghost]

Batting 1000

Guess the thread title didn't help.

[Cars-R-Coffins]

I don't think the thread title had anything to do with it if you know what I mean.

[Swift]

Sitting in lyons, I sit and ponder the point to life...

[Sean]

Dammit noobs, stop crashing!

[Graphite675]

Not another one.. :no:

Glad everyone is okay.


.

[Peanut_EOD]

So im thinking of going but im not sure if its cool or if i had to crash on one of your rides before or what the deal is but im there may god have mercy on my soul:devil1:
Ironic.:shock:

[CaptGoodvibes]

This is bad mojo

[Vellos]

It was a blast riding with Brad, Rob, and Louis. We made it down to Lyons for lunch. I'll probably ride with you guys some other time, but for now I'm done hosting public rides. Can always text my number if you want to go for a private spin.


if i had put this ride together i would have been there till the end (hint hint)

We came back down for him. He was uninjured and already had arrangements on their way. No LEO or anything involved, it was just a waiting game and he didn't want us to stay either. So there was no way in hell would I abandon the 120 mile ride that four people woke up for to sit in the sun for two hours. Good on you for sticking with him a little longer, but I made the right decision to continue.

[Genoru]

Sorry to hear that someone went down, hope he gets better soon.
Vellos, I think other ride leaders are getting jealous of your popularity and sabotaging your rides!:yes:

[RSV4]

It was a blast riding with Brad, Rob, and Louis. We made it down to Lyons for lunch. I'll probably ride with you guys some other time, but for now I'm done hosting public rides. Can always text my number if you want to go for a private spin.



We came back down for him. He was uninjured and already had arrangements on their way. No LEO or anything involved, it was just a waiting game and he didn't want us to stay either. So there was no way in hell would I abandon the 120 mile ride that four people woke up for to sit in the sun for two hours. Good on you for sticking with him a little longer, but I made the right decision to continue.
Was a good ride, thanks.
I agree was a right decision.
Louis

[Ted]

Good to know rider is OK. :up:


..... but for now I'm done hosting public rides......

Sorry to hear that man.... But would you still do "public rides" i.e show up and ride on another person's posted ride........ ???

On an unrelated note, how did the kawi ride with the new suspension settings .... ?

[Vellos]

Been thinking about it a little. I would show up to some rides, but not a whole lot. Might post experienced riders only rides (haters gonna hate (coughBuellercough)) in the future.

[2whlxtremist]

Vellos, I am not a Vellos hater and have ridden with you once (not a bad experience), but have seen a lot of posts on here about your other rides.

As you get a little older you will learn responsibility. When you organize something, you take responsibility for the group. You will learn that as you get a little older and more mature.

If you want to smack me down for my comment, that is fine, but I will put my 28 years of MX racing and 12 years of sportbike riding up against you any day. It is not about how fast you can take a corner or if you can standup on one, or if everyone thinks you are the best rider in the group, but it is about taking responsibility.

I respect your decision to not host public rides for awhile, but don't do it because you are pouting or you want others to beg you to not stop...do it because you know you are not mature enough right now to handle the responsibility. There are rules to follow when you host rides such as these. If you don't want to follow those leadership rules, then you should not be the leader.

I have no doubt that in a few more years, you WILL be mature enough to host...just not right now.

I am an expert on my own opinion and freely give it. Oh, by the way, I don't think you are a bad guy...just a bad decision-maker. That gets better with time and age. Trust me.

P.S.

I have said my peace. I don't get into pissing matches on boards. Moving on.

[Ted]

Been thinking about it a little. I would show up to some rides, but not a whole lot. Might post experienced riders only rides (haters gonna hate (coughBuellercough)) in the future.

Cool, see you around town sometime.... until then .....

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/926495/eating-popcorn-o.gif

[Clovis]

Well said. +1


Vellos, I am not a Vellos hater and have ridden with you once (not a bad experience), but have seen a lot of posts on here about your other rides.

As you get a little older you will learn responsibility. When you organize something, you take responsibility for the group. You will learn that as you get a little older and more mature.

If you want to smack me down for my comment, that is fine, but I will put my 28 years of MX racing and 12 years of sportbike riding up against you any day. It is not about how fast you can take a corner or if you can standup on one, or if everyone thinks you are the best rider in the group, but it is about taking responsibility.

I respect your decision to not host public rides for awhile, but don't do it because you are pouting or you want others to beg you to not stop...do it because you know you are not mature enough right now to handle the responsibility. There are rules to follow when you host rides such as these. If you don't want to follow those leadership rules, then you should not be the leader.

I have no doubt that in a few more years, you WILL be mature enough to host...just not right now.

I am an expert on my own opinion and freely give it. Oh, by the way, I don't think you are a bad guy...just a bad decision-maker. That gets better with time and age. Trust me.

P.S.

I have said my peace. I don't get into pissing matches on boards. Moving on.

[koru]

hey im sorry about all that man I wasnt doing anything on that bike i havent done a hundred times before I wasnt even going that fast I am still racking my brain trying to figure out what i did wrong but thanks for keeping me company and checking on me by all. Already got a new rim and tire :P be back out there hitting the ground in no time. So to keep your stigma up there vellos wasnt trying to be an ass out there was just enjoying the two minutes of my ride lol. Im ok and bikes pissed at me but gotta love gear saved my ass but thats what its for.No worries all right and I hope I didnt ruin everyones day.

[madvlad]

Glad you're okay man, just don't let it swirl around your head too much. Just learn from it and move on forward.

[Zenshu]

This isn't directly pointed at anyone from this thread....just something that I noticed yet again today. /start venting
I am still trying to figure out what constitutes a noob around here...seems like everytime someone hits a patch of dirt and drops their bike on a group ride the forums explode with cries for the noobs to quit riding with the "experienced riders" reguardless of the amount of riding experience the person who fell has....so what I am getting from all of this is that at some point in my future I will reach a point of experience when I could drag my helmet across the ground in a turn and go over a 3 foot sand patch sideways and backwards and never fall thanks to the fact that I have now earned "Experience"...not saying I am either a noob or experienced but it just seems to me like their are alot of people around here who seem to think that if people were more "Experienced" they would never make a mistake in a turn or never hit a sand patch....and whats with people making it seem like someone who is new to riding motorcycles must inherently be stupid and equipped with the learning capacity of a brain damaged chimp? Sorry for the rant but it just kind of irks me to see all of this high and mighty horse shit floating around like some people have never and will never drop their bikes because they are just that awesome. /end venting

Glad to here your ok and the bike isn't in too bad of shape koru

[koru]

yea got it back on two good wheels and you know what I havent wrecked a bike in 10 years so I guess i got it out of the way for another 10. Im not the best rider but by far im not an idiot just made some minor error and I wished i knew but itll come to me as I just want to learn and move on. Happy day to all

[rfranks303]

yea got it back on two good wheels and you know what I havent wrecked a bike in 10 years so I guess i got it out of the way for another 10. Im not the best rider but by far im not an idiot just made some minor error and I wished i knew but itll come to me as I just want to learn and move on. Happy day to all

Down this morning and she's back rolling already. RESPECT:applause:
If I can help out in any way don't be afraid to ask.

[WolFeYeZ]

Vellos, I am not a Vellos hater and have ridden with you once (not a bad experience), but have seen a lot of posts on here about your other rides.

As you get a little older you will learn responsibility. When you organize something, you take responsibility for the group. You will learn that as you get a little older and more mature.

If you want to smack me down for my comment, that is fine, but I will put my 28 years of MX racing and 12 years of sportbike riding up against you any day. It is not about how fast you can take a corner or if you can standup on one, or if everyone thinks you are the best rider in the group, but it is about taking responsibility.

I respect your decision to not host public rides for awhile, but don't do it because you are pouting or you want others to beg you to not stop...do it because you know you are not mature enough right now to handle the responsibility. There are rules to follow when you host rides such as these. If you don't want to follow those leadership rules, then you should not be the leader.

I have no doubt that in a few more years, you WILL be mature enough to host...just not right now.

I am an expert on my own opinion and freely give it. Oh, by the way, I don't think you are a bad guy...just a bad decision-maker. That gets better with time and age. Trust me.

P.S.

I have said my peace. I don't get into pissing matches on boards. Moving on.

Vellos does take responsibility for the group:

1. When a rider has not shown up, he will go looking for them.
2. When someone crashes 20 minutes away, he will gladly go back and do what he can.
3. When someone crashes and is hurt, he will visit them in the hospital and make sure everything that is needed gets done.
4. When someone crashes, he will help gather together help to get the bike to where it needs to be rather than some impound lot.

All things I have noticed from the 2 crashes where I have been on a ride with Vellos leading.

For last weekends crash:
Vellos spent hours after the ride and while people were eating lunch to try to find the crashed rider in the hospital as well as the arrange for the totaled bike.

For todays crash:
Vellos lead the group safely down from Evergreen down to Morrison to check on the crashed rider even through we already knew that he was okay. When there we spent a good amount of time in which we found that the bike was not okay, but the rider was doing great in comparison with no ambulance and no police. As well he had already arranged for his bike to be picked up. This rider surly did not want to ruin the ride and said he was all good to go, at which point the rest of the group left except for cbrjonny and Zach who opted out of the ride. Literally all that Vellos could have done is sit there half a mile outside our start and wait the 2 hours that the truck was going to take.

Pouting?:
There is no pouting, it has been recommended to Vellos to stop with the public rides due to the amount of crashers and he seems to be listening. He liked to host public rides to help people get out and ride and I am very thankful to him for this.

[WolFeYeZ]

Vellos, I had a great day riding with you, swift and rsv4. Thank you for continuing the ride, it made for a great day even with the bad start.

[Zenshu]

Vellos does take responsibility for the group:

1. When a rider has not shown up, he will go looking for them.
2. When someone crashes 20 minutes away, he will gladly go back and do what he can.
3. When someone crashes and is hurt, he will visit them in the hospital and make sure everything that is needed gets done.
4. When someone crashes, he will help gather together help to get the bike to where it needs to be rather than some impound lot.

All things I have noticed from the 2 crashes where I have been on a ride with Vellos leading.

For last weekends crash:
Vellos spent hours after the ride and while people were eating lunch to try to find the crashed rider in the hospital as well as the arrange for the totaled bike.

For todays crash:
Vellos lead the group safely down from Evergreen down to Morrison to check on the crashed rider even through we already knew that he was okay. When there we spent a good amount of time in which we found that the bike was not okay, but the rider was doing great in comparison with no ambulance and no police. As well he had already arranged for his bike to be picked up. This rider surly did not want to ruin the ride and said he was all good to go, at which point the rest of the group left except for cbrjonny and Zach who opted out of the ride. Literally all that Vellos could have done is sit there half a mile outside our start and wait the 2 hours that the truck was going to take.

Pouting?:
There is no pouting, it has been recommended to Vellos to stop with the public rides due to the amount of crashers and he seems to be listening. He liked to host public rides to help people get out and ride and I am very thankful to him for this.

I think he was more edging towards actual leadership responsibilities such as establishing the ability level of every rider in the group for an "open to anyone at all that wants to go" style public ride and setting limitations on the ride in order to maintain a safe environment based on the predetermined ability levels, in the event that you want to ride to a higher ability level it should be predefined during the planning period that the ride will be for a specific ability group. People love to tell the "noobs" to do their research and read this post or that post about riding to your ability before you go on a public ride but that also goes for people hosting rides to learn how to be a leader and take charge to ensure safety as well. This post (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/local/ThePace.html) actually covers a little about setting rules as a leader if I remember correctly. I have never been on a ride with Vellos so I can't say whether he does this or not. All I am doing is attempting to point out the point that I believe 2whlxtremist was trying to make about leadership responsibilities, from what you say it seems that Vellos has the reactive portion of the responsibilities down, however I think that 2whlxtremist was probably hitting more on the proactive side of things....just my interpretation.

[TinkerinWstuff]

another, "you can't make this shit up" threads

[grim]

another, "you can't make this shit up" threads

+1. yup this is my entertainment for the night

[Vellos]

Glad you guys are so opinionated about group riding as you've just joined the forums and haven't been on many. So anyway...

At the beginning of every ride I talk to the new people and tell them to ride their own ride, keep a pace, and don't be a dick. In bigger groups I elaborate more of course. I've hosted over twenty rides and participated in plenty more too. At no point do I lack leadership responsibilities; I don't try to outrun the group I just ride at my pace and everyone meets up at the same place. When myself or those who ride with me regularly see dangerous riding behavior we make sure to tell that person to cool it.

I'm going to not host rides for a while for several reasons. 1) It costs money I don't really have. 2) To loosen the growing reputation that I cause crashes (correlation doesn't equal causation). 3) Because I've been spending a fair amount of the rides backtracking and waiting around for someone who went down. 4) People I ride with regularly have my number and are more fun to ride with anyway.

So keep your unfounded opinions to yourself. Thanks. :up:

[Spooph]

I am still trying to figure out what constitutes a noob around here...seems like everytime someone hits a patch of dirt and drops their bike on a group ride the forums explode with cries for the noobs to quit riding with the "experienced riders" reguardless of the amount of riding experience the person who fell has....so what I am getting from all of this is that at some point in my future I will reach a point of experience when I could drag my helmet across the ground in a turn and go over a 3 foot sand patch sideways and backwards and never fall thanks to the fact that I have now earned "Experience"...not saying I am either a noob or experienced but it just seems to me like their are alot of people around here who seem to think that if people were more "Experienced" they would never make a mistake in a turn or never hit a sand patch....and whats with people making it seem like someone who is new to riding motorcycles must inherently be stupid and equipped with the learning capacity of a brain damaged chimp?

To most specifically answer your question, I can't speak to the opinions of the rest of the board, but this is how I define "newb", and other categorizations of riders:

newb: somebody with little enough experience on a moto where the probably of them breaking rule #1 (crashing/falling off), is elevated to high as soon as circumstances go beyond perfect - ie: gravel, rain, dear, etc.

Intermediate rider: Somebody with enough experience not to be phased by out-of-ordinary circumstances - like all the regular road hazards posted in the neweb definition.

Expert rider: Moto-GP/World SBK racers, Adventure riders of 25 years or more, you know, the types of guys that can break any which wheel loose at will, and slide the bike in whichever direction they want.

I've never heard anybody else define these terms as such, but from what I've gathered, it's pretty much echoed all around, from the experienced riders anyway.

Also keep in mind, the attitude change from when the current experienced riders learned to ride, and the current beginners learning to ride is massive! Back in the day, when you crashed, it was expected. The technology wasn't so good, the speeds weren't as great. Now, the bikes are so good that there really is no excuse for a rider to go down, but being that they're capable of SO MUCH MORE, many more people are going down. Also, any fall is considered a failure/let down. Along with this, for some reason, there is this attitude floating around like a season on a 250, or 3 years on a super sport makes one an experienced rider. Not so. A season on a 250, or 3 years on a super sport might make you a GOOD rider, but experience is directly related to miles AND years traveled, hence the term "experienced". It's not a measure of ability (although that is a by-product), it is a measurement of situations lived through.

Thus, following from this: Most experienced riders will not fall when surprised with a road hazard because they know how to handle it, they've had practice handling it and they know their limits and the bike's limits to the point of riding out the problem if something doesn't go exactly as planned (loosing the front/rear, etc). Obviously experienced riders go down, so does the act of falling make a rider a newb? Nope, the fact that the experienced rider rode through/past 1,000,000 road hazard prior to loosing it makes them an experienced rider, not just 1,000, like a newb. I'm just using this as an illustration. Nobody is going to keep track of these numbers. I hope you understand what I'm typing. Not trying to be condescending or harsh here, trying to honestly help.

Thus, from these definitions - my own, I classify myself as between Newb and intermediate. I've been riding for 6 years, covered somewhere around 140K miles and ridden in all kinds of conditions short of pure natural disasters. lol, I don't say this to impress, I say this so that you know I stand by my definitions. I'm not trying to lecture from a high-horse here, but as one of the less experienced riders on this board, I'm simply trying to make sense of this as you, from having spoken with the truly experienced riders on this and other boards (most notably ADVrider.com), this seems to be about accurate...

As a side note: Wanna know what a truly experienced rider can do - Shearboy on advrider.com rode a 35 year old bike down a canyon using a can opener as a clutch, after his clutch cable broke mid way through a brisk weekend (1,500 mile) ride, faster than I can. I'm not all that quick, but throw all the other variables on the table and I just give up... :lol: I'm sure there are MANY experienced riders on this board who have very similar stories.


Down this morning and she's back rolling already. RESPECT:applause:
If I can help out in any way don't be afraid to ask.

I know, for real right? The guy is an animal. And before the ego thing comes up, I have to vouch for Koru, if it means anything. I have ridden with him on quite a few occasions... He is a rate-A dude, and aside getting a little annoying at times, has no ambition to impress anybody. He's the type of rider I like to ride with, because he's in it for the journey, not the destination. Having not been there, seen his bike, the corner/situation, and just going off of how I've gotten to know him, I would say that this was just an honest mistake which happened to be on one of Vellos' rides... I wouldn't even call it a newb mistake, although I would say that Roku is still a newb...

Since I brough up Vellos, and I've written a book already, I might as well continue....

Why does the Vellos curse exist? Because Vellos is a very perceptive and calculating individual. He knows what he and his bike can do. He sees what others better than himself can do, and wants to be able to do that as well, so he goes about it in a very progressive and safe manner. He then ASSUMES that everybody else on his rides do that same thing. The problem is that most other people don't do that, and need proper herding to make it through a ride. This is the point 2whlxtremist is trying to make, I think. As a ride leader, one should be willing to herd. That sounds awful, but in all honesty, that is what it is and if it steps on your ego, oh well. I was herded many times by riders much better than myself, heck, at Chicane I was herded for half a day. I didn't like it, I knew I could go faster, but because I stuck with it, I essentially DOUBLED my knowledge of track-riding.

So.... Maybe some community agreed-upon definitions and expectations of Newb, intermediate rider, expert rider, ride leaders, riding ettiquette and such are sorely needed. I however doubt any of that will come to fruition because most experienced riders know that those who stick around and accept the attitude that is find a home here, and those who don't, don't. Those who find a home, eventually figure out what's what. This is a club like any other. It's not cookie-cutter, and it's not for everybody. It is what it is because it's members have made it that way, because that's the way they enjoy to make things happen...

[Swift]

+1. yup this is my entertainment for the night
Man you need to get a hobby outside of riding...


To all the h@t3rZ in this thread:
http://www.altelco.net/%7Eemenaker/Misc_Images/finger.jpg


Koru, shit happens dude. I think your tires were just too cold still for the conditions on that section. Either that or your pressures were set wrong. Either way, you lost all the bite in the tires that was available. Easy mistake to make.

I think the best part about the past couple weekends for me has been the fact that I now know who I want riding with me and who needs to stay the hell home/ride with another group. Fortunately, my rabbiting on about death and destruction on here to the n00bs paid off in spades today. The ride following Koru's accident was definitely not for the timid or down right slow.

On a side note: RSV4 definitely earned kudos with all of us today, he's a damn fast rider and didn't seem like he was breaking a sweat at any point. If he happens to join anyones group ride, no worries, he's got that shit on lock.

[WolFeYeZ]

To most specifically answer your question, I can't speak to the opinions of the rest of the board, but this is how I define "newb", and other categorizations of riders:

newb: somebody with little enough experience on a moto where the probably of them breaking rule #1 (crashing/falling off), is elevated to high as soon as circumstances go beyond perfect - ie: gravel, rain, dear, etc.

Intermediate rider: Somebody with enough experience not to be phased by out-of-ordinary circumstances - like all the regular road hazards posted in the neweb definition.

Expert rider: Moto-GP/World SBK racers, Adventure riders of 25 years or more, you know, the types of guys that can break any which wheel loose at will, and slide the bike in whichever direction they want.

I've never heard anybody else define these terms as such, but from what I've gathered, it's pretty much echoed all around, from the experienced riders anyway.

Also keep in mind, the attitude change from when the current experienced riders learned to ride, and the current beginners learning to ride is massive! Back in the day, when you crashed, it was expected. The technology wasn't so good, the speeds weren't as great. Now, the bikes are so good that there really is no excuse for a rider to go down, but being that they're capable of SO MUCH MORE, many more people are going down. Also, any fall is considered a failure/let down. Along with this, for some reason, there is this attitude floating around like a season on a 250, or 3 years on a super sport makes one an experienced rider. Not so. A season on a 250, or 3 years on a super sport might make you a GOOD rider, but experience is directly related to miles AND years traveled, hence the term "experienced". It's not a measure of ability (although that is a by-product), it is a measurement of situations lived through.

Thus, following from this: Most experienced riders will not fall when surprised with a road hazard because they know how to handle it, they've had practice handling it and they know their limits and the bike's limits to the point of riding out the problem if something doesn't go exactly as planned (loosing the front/rear, etc). Obviously experienced riders go down, so does the act of falling make a rider a newb? Nope, the fact that the experienced rider rode through/past 1,000,000 road hazard prior to loosing it makes them an experienced rider, not just 1,000, like a newb. I'm just using this as an illustration. Nobody is going to keep track of these numbers. I hope you understand what I'm typing. Not trying to be condescending or harsh here, trying to honestly help.

Thus, from these definitions - my own, I classify myself as between Newb and intermediate. I've been riding for 6 years, covered somewhere around 140K miles and ridden in all kinds of conditions short of pure natural disasters. lol, I don't say this to impress, I say this so that you know I stand by my definitions. I'm not trying to lecture from a high-horse here, but as one of the less experienced riders on this board, I'm simply trying to make sense of this as you, from having spoken with the truly experienced riders on this and other boards (most notably ADVrider.com), this seems to be about accurate...

As a side note: Wanna know what a truly experienced rider can do - Shearboy on advrider.com rode a 35 year old bike down a canyon using a can opener as a clutch, after his clutch cable broke mid way through a brisk weekend (1,500 mile) ride, faster than I can. I'm not all that quick, but throw all the other variables on the table and I just give up... :lol: I'm sure there are MANY experienced riders on this board who have very similar stories.



I know, for real right? The guy is an animal. And before the ego thing comes up, I have to vouch for Koru, if it means anything. I have ridden with him on quite a few occasions... He is a rate-A dude, and aside getting a little annoying at times, has no ambition to impress anybody. He's the type of rider I like to ride with, because he's in it for the journey, not the destination. Having not been there, seen his bike, the corner/situation, and just going off of how I've gotten to know him, I would say that this was just an honest mistake which happened to be on one of Vellos' rides... I wouldn't even call it a newb mistake, although I would say that Roku is still a newb...

Since I brough up Vellos, and I've written a book already, I might as well continue....

Why does the Vellos curse exist? Because Vellos is a very perceptive and calculating individual. He knows what he and his bike can do. He sees what others better than himself can do, and wants to be able to do that as well, so he goes about it in a very progressive and safe manner. He then ASSUMES that everybody else on his rides do that same thing. The problem is that most other people don't do that, and need proper herding to make it through a ride. This is the point 2whlxtremist is trying to make, I think. As a ride leader, one should be willing to herd. That sounds awful, but in all honesty, that is what it is and if it steps on your ego, oh well. I was herded many times by riders much better than myself, heck, at Chicane I was herded for half a day. I didn't like it, I knew I could go faster, but because I stuck with it, I essentially DOUBLED my knowledge of track-riding.

So.... Maybe some community agreed-upon definitions and expectations of Newb, intermediate rider, expert rider, ride leaders, riding ettiquette and such are sorely needed. I however doubt any of that will come to fruition because most experienced riders know that those who stick around and accept the attitude that is find a home here, and those who don't, don't. Those who find a home, eventually figure out what's what. This is a club like any other. It's not cookie-cutter, and it's not for everybody. It is what it is because it's members have made it that way, because that's the way they enjoy to make things happen...

Long post is long....

Long cat is longer:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3721/longcat.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/longcat.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Clovis]

God help us if someone quotes that cat picture! Next they'll want to divide by zero! =P

[Zenshu]

To most specifically answer your question....

I completely agree with you on all points made, although my original point was completely lost because of the venting nature of my post, it was intended to be something along the lines of while I am sure there are quite a few very good riders here most of the posts I see criticizing the noobs for being too much of a noob are in their 20's and therefore fall into a group that I wouldn't believe to have the amount of experience necessary to be that far out of the noob stage themselves (again regardless of skill and ability, as you pointed out much more efficiently than I did experience is relative to time and distance traveled where as skill is a by-product not a measuring tool) so I was just a little frustrated at the point of that post. And looking back to my post regarding 2whlxtremist's post, again you pretty much just did a better job of articulating what I was trying to get across in that on a public ride it basically becomes a leaders job to act as shepherd to the sheep and ensure everyone is acting like the good little sheep they need to be. As Spooph pointed out Vellos is a good rider, he knows his and his bikes limits and knows how to push them, the problem comes into play when the people behind him don't.


Glad you guys are so opinionated about group riding as you've just joined the forums and haven't been on many.
Your right I am new to these Forums because I just moved to Colorado a few months ago, doesn't mean I didn't do group rides when I lived in Western North Carolina or when I lived in El Paso, TX, but again I would like to think since I made no opinionated remarks other than my opinion on what I felt 2whlxtremist was trying to say in order to attempt to clear it up a bit that that part didn't really pertain to me.

[Swift]

God help us if someone quotes that cat picture! Next they'll want to divide by zero! =P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htzlhTvIQo4

[Vellos]

Thanks Spooph, I agree with what you've said.

I do heard on some roads that I know pose more danger, such as Squaw pass today we all took it easy. Plenty of gravel wash-out and so on. I also slow down and hand signal near blind corners/hills that have trafficked pull-outs too. I point at the ground for potholes and yada-yada. At no point am I only thinking about just myself when I'm on a group ride. Nor do I put myself out of my own comfort zone.

Most of this is just bad luck. People are having fun and looking good (those who were sketchy were warned) until it is some random corner and everything goes to shit. It's never been because of something that I could have pointed out, too fast for unsafe conditions, or unexpected turns that have caused crashes. And it's never been someone following me directly that goes down either, those who are behind me can depend on my corner entry speed and will not see brake lights unless there is a good reason.

[Zenshu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SreBfcuzi8&feature=fvwrel

[grim]

I posted a message on here about squaw but I think you guys had already left moco.


swift I know man But wtf else can I do if I'm not riding I'm w the wife and kid and when there sleeping I'm playing cod reading my book called CSC.

[CaptGoodvibes]

I like the turn this thread has taken. Thanks to Spooph for a composed and mature post. And Vellos, I'm sorry for my offhanded comments... bad mojo etc. I'm not serious about that. I'm just a wisecracking type of fellow. I'm sure it's just weird coincidence about the getoffs.

That said, smaller groups - 3-4 bikes - or solo rides are usually more enjoyable to me which is why I haven't been seen lately at MoCo... that and trying to finish my EE degree...

[rangergixxer]

Ok, so what class do I fall into...

I've been riding street bikes for roughly 15 years and have at least 4 or 5 hundred thousand miles under my belt.

I've rode in every condition possible, on every type of bike you can think of and in several other countries as well.

I even rode my bike through 3 consecutive winters when I lived in Glenwood Springs and commuted to Aspen. Rain, hail, sleet, dirt, grooved pavement, washed out roads, you name it I've been there and done that. The only weather I will avoid completely is snow.

Not to say I've never gone down, because all of you and I know that (what I like to call) focus failures and unexpected road hazards come up all the time, and you can't beat all of the odds. The law of averages eventually always catches up. I almost went down on Squaw the other day because of a patch of gravel, but I didn't.

I think I'm somewhere in between intermediate and expert, but probably 60/40 - intermediate/expert.

At some point you're going to wreck. Whether or not it's bad depends on your crash etiquette, reaction time, and chance.

Shit, I even wrecked a go-ped at like 30mph once because of an unexpected pothole! That shit was funny as hell, once I got my breath back! I landed flat on my chest and skidded like 30 feet! Imagine a go-ped stopping dead and you keep on going, that's what happened to me. FOCUS FAILURE plain and simple.

How off am I? :sniper:

[TinkerinWstuff]

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn258/quickbrick808/witness-this-epic-thread.gif


You're not a bad guy Vellos.

unrelated but sorta - I used to participate in a lot of horseback rides and fund raisers. Whenever there'd be some big ride where strangers showed up, you could look at a rider and horse and just about bet who'd be going down.

Within the first hour, someone would come uncorked, hit the dirt, and proceed to the hospital. It was a given every time. Then we could ride for days without another incident.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xDh789_lOTA/TZxnXvLjWAI/AAAAAAAAAL4/OqHbg1vflB0/s1600/expendability_star_trek.jpg

[brennahm]

I love all of these comments about "not their fault, there was gravel"...guess what, if you come upon gravel mid-turn and can't avoid it or react then you're going too fast for your experience level. Yup, you were riding over your head. Let's stop making excuses.

It is NOT the group leader's responsibility to save you from yourself. I'm guessing the people ragging on Vellos' leadership actions are the same ones who want helmet laws and warnings on coffee cups saying "HOT!" It is certainly courteous and generous for a ride leader to give a hand to the guy that binned it...but not his responsibility. It's YOUR responsibility to keep it shiny side up.

You're a noob when you make a bonehead maneuver...like crashing. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's NEVER ok on public roads.

Vellos, always was glad you were giving people the opportunity to group ride. I'd like to do the same but don't have the time or patience to deal with it. Also, I have my group (yes, I realize I got my group from public rides and meeting people, hence my sadness). Sorry to hear the new to CO riding people won't have you around...

[Vellos]

Thanks Henry. Might see you with Zach, Diego, Matty, Justin, or Patrick sometime; possibly at IMI. I just need a break from being associated with all the crashing that's been going on lately.

[brennahm]

Maybe doing an IMI day this Saturday before the race on Sunday. Keep you posted.

[Repsol a095]

Vellos, let me know if you want to ride. I am always open to having you along!!

[Spooph]

I love all of these comments about "not their fault, there was gravel"...guess what, if you come upon gravel mid-turn and can't avoid it or react then you're going too fast for your experience level. Yup, you were riding over your head. Let's stop making excuses.


+1


Ok, so what class do I fall into...

I've been riding street bikes for roughly 15 years and have at least 4 or 5 hundred thousand miles under my belt.

I even rode my bike through 3 consecutive winters when I lived in Glenwood Springs and commuted to Aspen. Rain, hail, sleet, dirt, grooved pavement, washed out roads, you name it I've been there and done that. The only weather I will avoid completely is snow.


I haven't ridden with you. You sound fast, but you sound newbish.... Not trying to aggravate, you could probably kill me with your pinky-finger.... 4-5K miles? Dude! That's like January - April for many of us.... I understand you were probably deployed and couldn't ride all the time, and the fact that you're so ready to accept the title of accomplished "expert" makes me nervous. It's not about that. It's about going out and ridding. The categorizations are simply a measure of who you're willing to trust on your rides. Also, haven't you crashed once already, or was that the other Ranger?

For instance, I see an old dude walk up in some weathered full-gear. I talk to him a bit. He seems very calm but doesn't like to waste time. I check out his bike, an FZ1 for instance, he has no chicken strips. During the ride he smoothly places the bike accurately into a full-tilt lean, with his pegs 1mm off the deck. I know I read this rider correctly. He is experienced. I don't try and keep up. Period. Although he isn't nearly old enough to fit into the "old" category, Daemon comes to mind.... STUPID FAST, and he makes it look easy to boot.

Again, not trying to beat you up, that would be foolish of me... Just saying, from the little we got to talking at the New Members Meetup, and from your general tone on the boards, I'm not that excited to ride with you. I could very well be wrong, but I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to things like this.

[koru]

LOL you guys are funny but i think you may be right mbe my tires were over inflated the bike just gave out from under me and i have ridden faster in tighter turns on crappier roads but who knows. In any event its always up to the individual rider to ride his/her ride and I feel that i just had bad bit of luck wasnt pushing myself or going crazy so it was all on me i just made a mistake but thats all it takes dont normally crash bikes but screw it ill be back out in the canyons in no time i hope just more embarassed than anything. Sorry Vellos cant say it enough live to ride ride to live:yes:

[Sarge]

Ok, so what class do I fall into...

I've been riding street bikes for roughly 15 years and have at least 4 or 5 hundred thousand miles under my belt....






4-5K miles? Dude! That's like January - April for many of us.... I


:vader:

[Penadam]

Vellos, I am not a Vellos hater and have ridden with you once (not a bad experience), but have seen a lot of posts on here about your other rides.

As you get a little older you will learn responsibility. When you organize something, you take responsibility for the group. You will learn that as you get a little older and more mature.

If you want to smack me down for my comment, that is fine, but I will put my 28 years of MX racing and 12 years of sportbike riding up against you any day. It is not about how fast you can take a corner or if you can standup on one, or if everyone thinks you are the best rider in the group, but it is about taking responsibility.

I respect your decision to not host public rides for awhile, but don't do it because you are pouting or you want others to beg you to not stop...do it because you know you are not mature enough right now to handle the responsibility. There are rules to follow when you host rides such as these. If you don't want to follow those leadership rules, then you should not be the leader.

I have no doubt that in a few more years, you WILL be mature enough to host...just not right now.

I am an expert on my own opinion and freely give it. Oh, by the way, I don't think you are a bad guy...just a bad decision-maker. That gets better with time and age. Trust me.

P.S.

I have said my peace. I don't get into pissing matches on boards. Moving on.

Just curious, what do you expect a group leader to do? Ride with everyone before the posted ride so they can assess their ability? When you post a group ride where everyone is invited, all you can do is remind people to not ride outside their limits. We're an internet forum, not your mother or babysitter. There is no responsibility to personally vet everyone who shows up. Vellos always goes above and beyond what is required when leading a ride. If you want to go through life having someone warn you of every danger and hold your hand through things that may get you hurt, be my guest, just don't expect it from me or most other people in the world.

[Spooph]

:vader:

oops, reading comprehension fail... My bad!
~82miles/day for 15 years is a reasonable figure.
Nevermind, maybe rangergixxer is just a BAMF and I'm just a whinny kid...

[rangergixxer]

+1



I haven't ridden with you. You sound fast, but you sound newbish.... Not trying to aggravate, you could probably kill me with your pinky-finger.... 4-5K miles? Dude! That's like January - April for many of us.... I understand you were probably deployed and couldn't ride all the time, and the fact that you're so ready to accept the title of accomplished "expert" makes me nervous. It's not about that. It's about going out and ridding. The categorizations are simply a measure of who you're willing to trust on your rides. Also, haven't you crashed once already, or was that the other Ranger?

For instance, I see an old dude walk up in some weathered full-gear. I talk to him a bit. He seems very calm but doesn't like to waste time. I check out his bike, an FZ1 for instance, he has no chicken strips. During the ride he smoothly places the bike accurately into a full-tilt lean, with his pegs 1mm off the deck. I know I read this rider correctly. He is experienced. I don't try and keep up. Period. Although he isn't nearly old enough to fit into the "old" category, Daemon comes to mind.... STUPID FAST, and he makes it look easy to boot.

Again, not trying to beat you up, that would be foolish of me... Just saying, from the little we got to talking at the New Members Meetup, and from your general tone on the boards, I'm not that excited to ride with you. I could very well be wrong, but I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to things like this.



My goal is not to race others but to have fun and learn. I am not a BAMF, but I do have a BAMF'nBIKE. I hate showoffs and blowhards and those are the people I enjoy smashing out on the road.

You have mistaken me for another person with the wrecking inquiry. I haven't wrecked since 2004, and that was so bad that I decided to never wreck again LOL.

Finally, you must've misread my post, because I never claimed to be an expert, I simply stated that I am 60/40 <----- 60 Intermediate/40 Expert.

I got thick skin Spooph, you can't hurt me. I know that you didn't mean to be insulting and I think it's refreshing to see someone that's not afraid to speak their mind, but you gotta properly comprehend what I wrote before you try to reply critically.

I am a realist and I know my limits, I just don't need to let everyone else know my limits, so I tend to be somewhat vague in my explanations of previous experience.

[rangergixxer]

Besides...

Since when is it ok to assume something about anyone? As far as I know, through my life's experience, assumptions mostly get you in trouble, and are usually wrong. Anticipation trumps assumption as a viable prediction method.

A lot of you guys here are so wrapped up in drama that you can't see what's right in front of you. Get over yourselves. From what I gather, this forum was put together to connect people who wanna ride together, not talk smack about people.

I didn't join the group to be talked down to or judged. If you want to participate in said actions, talk to someone else. Positivity is key and it's not cool to drag others into your own little negative hell.

I'm here to make friends and be sociable, THAT'S IT! I'm not here to win a pissing contest or prove I'm better than anyone else. FUN is my goal, riding is my mechanism and I enjoy things more with others to share the experience.

If you translate my posts wrong, that's your fault. I speak English and choose my words very carefully.

This post is not directly aimed at you Spooph, but rather the drama kings and queens in the club, like the ones talking smack about Vellos illegitimately. I don't know anything about Vellos, but I can tell you that from what I gathered, meeting him at the member meetup BBQ, he seems to be a nice, honest and genuine fellow, which is all I need to see.

I just had to say something. Sorry if I offended anybody as that is not my intention. I think I'm just having my man time of the month.

[brennahm]

Dude, can you stop typing in bold...please?

[TinkerinWstuff]

cue the CSC drama gif......

[MetaLord 9]

Also consider that being a n00b and acting like a n00b often have the same effect...

[Vellos]

cue the CSC drama gif......

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183933_10150237899278309_510208308_7393900_7926509 _n.jpg

[madvlad]

Lmao

[Mother Goose]

Dude, can you stop typing in bold...please?
:eyebrows:

[CaptGoodvibes]

Wow. Drama club has arrived. I thought they beat that shit out of you in the military.

[dirkterrell]

Looks like somebody got the pink treatment. :lol: And I had such a great reply typed up in the "I did 120 on I-25" thread but Mel brought the hammer down before I could post it. :)

[Snowman]

First let me dispel this idea that at a certain level of rider experience, you will never fall down again. There is a constant in the universe called gravity. If you don’t believe me, get off your bike, let it go and see what happens. I don’t care how many years, miles, or world championships you may have, if you continue to ride gravity will win at some point.

We ride an inherently unstable vehicle that has to be balanced between several forces in order to make it turn. We do this because we enjoy the feeling of controlling something that has to be on a fine edge in order to operate it. Knowing this and taking precautions to minimize damage to our equipment and ourselves is the only thing we can do.

As far as responsibility for this, there is only one person, the rider. You are the one responsible knowing what level you can ride at, not letting anyone telling you should ride above it, keeping you ego in check and every other aspect of this game. (and yes this includes the pressure in your tires.)

Those of us that have more years, miles, or world championships shouldn’t classify those with less experience as less worthy to ride with. We were all at their level at one time in our lives and we need to remember what we were like back then and what we could have used from a more experienced rider, and then offer it.

This is a community of riders. We already have to deal with people, who look at us as menace to society, we don’t need to be doing the same to each other.

[madvlad]

First let me dispel this idea that at a certain level of rider experience, you will never fall down again. There is a constant in the universe called gravity. If you don’t believe me, get off your bike, let it go and see what happens. I don’t care how many years, miles, or world championships you may have, if you continue to ride gravity will win at some point.

We ride an inherently unstable vehicle that has to be balanced between several forces in order to make it turn. We do this because we enjoy the feeling of controlling something that has to be on a fine edge in order to operate it. Knowing this and taking precautions to minimize damage to our equipment and ourselves is the only thing we can do.

As far as responsibility for this, there is only one person, the rider. You are the one responsible knowing what level you can ride at, not letting anyone telling you should ride above it, keeping you ego in check and every other aspect of this game. (and yes this includes the pressure in your tires.)

Those of us that have more years, miles, or world championships shouldn’t classify those with less experience as less worthy to ride with. We were all at their level at one time in our lives and we need to remember what we were like back then and what we could have used from a more experienced rider, and then offer it.

This is a community of riders. We already have to deal with people, who look at us as menace to society, we don’t need to be doing the same to each other.

Nuff said and kudos to you sir...:applause:

[OUTLAWD]

about time Vellos...I knew the day would come where you would decide to take a break from public rides.


now what ever happened to all those knee dragger rides?

[Ricky]

Vellos, now you see the point I was trying to make in this thread:
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38548

[MetaLord 9]

Again, I have less trouble with new riders feeling out the streets than I do with them pushing themselves past their limits due to ego, insecurity, or an unwillingness to seek help and listen to more experienced riders.

I also have an issue with folks who claim to be something they're not (e.g. experienced, expert, leader, etc.). And that's not directed anyone in particular, but the annual influx of n00bs comes with a high quotient of "I know what I'm doing" riders who do not and who will not listen to anyone or anything that indicates otherwise.

[koru]

WOW man its like i stirred up a hornets nest. It was my fault and im not the shit on a bike but not an idiot I fucked up so i payed the piper still not quite sure how i fucked up which i would have loved to learn from that lesson but i do think gravity and the laws of physics i was trying to break didnt work out for me so oh well sorry for all the trouble im not much for drama and got parts on the way will be back riding again and will continue to learn how to ride the rest of my life which may be a long time or the next corner lol. Sorry guys and gals cant we all just get along.

[madvlad]

Unfortunately a lot of noobs mistake actual riding to moving a bike from A to B. Anyone can move a car or bike from A to B but to understand the concept is another. I think you mentioned something about how new technology advancements with motorcycle gives new riders more comfort but sure is becoming more of a downfall for them than anything, makes them naive to learning and understanding your craft.

[Ghost]

Sorry guys and gals cant we all just get along.

History would show that we cannot...:lol:



Speaking of, can we lock this thread and let it die yet?

...I'm sure there'll be more crashes this summer we can all jump in on...

[madvlad]

Agreed ^^^^ lol

[Bueller]

Koru, I know the corner you went down in, if it was infact the 2nd corner heading up that means it was the decreasing radius that surprises a lot of people. It is very inviting after the first sweeping (non blind) corner that entices people to speed up to a good clip into the blind decreasing radius and when you finally see it tighten up it is too late. Panic usually has people on the brakes which leads to standing the bike up and drifting into the oncoming lane or in your case a lowside which sometimes ends up with the bike in the guardrail.
Not sure if that's how it went down but that would be my guess.
Street tires are very good at gripping at normal ambient temps. so I hesitant to blame cold tires (maybe if it was <50deg.) but likely a combination of panic and poor choices in positioning and braking. Get your bike back together and find some people that can work with you to see if you are having a technique problem.




I also have an issue with folks who claim to be something they're not (e.g. experienced, expert, leader, etc.). And that's not directed anyone in particular, but the annual influx of n00bs comes with a high quotient of "I know what I'm doing" riders who do not and who will not listen to anyone or anything that indicates otherwise.
From the mentoring thread:


I don't know how to determine if those offering help are actually qualified per say to do so. I am too hoping this does not turn into noob helping noob.
Everyone is so sensitive to their noobness that they get all pissy if it is questioned.



BTW Vellos I have stayed out of this thread until now, but I think we talked a bit once @ Oscar Blues about the group ride phenomenon. Experience shows that people will eventually break off into riding groups they are comfortable with, usually smaller more intimate groups. Since the open invite balls out rides usually end badly, and once you have had enough of the BS and picking up wrecked bikes and riders you come to the inevitable conclusion that they just aren't that much fun. Then along comes a group of new members that are dying for that big group dynamic and the cycle starts over.

[WolFeYeZ]

Koru, I know the corner you went down in, if it was infact the 2nd corner heading up that means it was the decreasing radius that surprises a lot of people. It is very inviting after the first sweeping (non blind) corner that entices people to speed up to a good clip into the blind decreasing radius and when you finally see it tighten up it is too late. Panic usually has people on the brakes which leads to standing the bike up and drifting into the oncoming lane or in your case a lowside which sometimes ends up with the bike in the guardrail.
Not sure if that's how it went down but that would be my guess.
Street tires are very good at gripping at normal ambient temps. so I hesitant to blame cold tires (maybe if it was <50deg.) but likely a combination of panic and poor choices in positioning and braking. Get your bike back together and find some people that can work with you to see if you are having a technique problem.


I do believe that the rider right behind him mentioned to all of us on the ride that he saw no brake light or even anything really wrong with the corner. So possibly it was extra lean then chopped the throttle rather than brakes?

[Vellos]

Koru, 95% of the discussion is not aimed at you personally. :) You weren't even half as bad as some of the other crashes I've dealt with this season.

[UglyDogRacing]

I do believe that the rider right behind him mentioned to all of us on the ride that he saw no brake light or even anything really wrong with the corner. So possibly it was extra lean then chopped the throttle rather than brakes?

if it's the 2nd hard right blind decreasing radius turn going west in Bear Creek canyon and someone was close enough to see his brake light they would have run him over when he went down. i dont know the details of the accident but i think Bueller is probably right.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Speaking of, can we lock this thread and let it die yet?


http://www.photopox.com/Images/Funny/deadhorse.jpg

[Vellos]

The only decreasing that got me regularly was the one a couple turns before Idledale. But the turn that got Koru was this one (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=39.652359,-105.207782&hl=en&ll=39.654903,-105.205121&spn=0.022501,0.038066&sll=39.656423,-105.199242&sspn=0.0225,0.038066&mra=dme&mrsp=0&sz=15&z=15).

[WolFeYeZ]

This corner:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Denver&hl=en&ll=39.652632,-105.207312&spn=0.001695,0.002411&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.375007,79.013672&t=k&z=19

This was the crash:

The only part I know I am almost 100% on is where it hit the guardrail, the rest is speculation. It also didn't look like he crashed at the decrease either.

Arrow = where his bike hit the guardrail.
Red = scrapes on the ground from the crash/crash route.
Green = possible line of sight.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8867/crashui.png

When I went around that corner that day I did not lose sight of the person in front of me, but they were also engine braking through the corner a little more.

Edit: Stupid ninja vellos

[grim]

"this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because



yup Its time some happy music was introduced

[OUTLAWD]

The only part I know I am almost 100% on is where it hit the guardrail, the rest is speculation. It also didn't look like he crashed at the decrease either.




Well, he probably shouldn't have tried to pass that white car on the inside... ;)


but if your schematic is correct, it would have been when he saw the decreased radius, and had a panicked or jerky reaction to what he saw.

[WolFeYeZ]

"this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because



yup Its time some happy music was introduced

You have been spending too much time with little kids, and no I am not talking about Vellos and company :P

[grim]

You have been spending too much time with little kids, and no I am not talking about Vellos and company :P

dude I have a little girl lol

[WolFeYeZ]

but if your schematic is correct, it would have been when he saw the decreased radius, and had a panicked or jerky reaction to what he saw.
You are probably right on that note.

My post was mostly directed at this:

if it's the 2nd hard right blind decreasing radius turn going west in Bear Creek canyon and someone was close enough to see his brake light they would have run him over when he went down. i dont know the details of the accident but i think Bueller is probably right.

[Bueller]

History would show that we cannot...:lol:



Speaking of, can we lock this thread and let it die yet?

...I'm sure there'll be more crashes this summer we can all jump in on...


http://www.photopox.com/Images/Funny/deadhorse.jpg


"this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because this is the thread that doesn't end, yes it goes on and on my friend.. some people started writing knowing damn well what it was but then continued writing just because



yup Its time some happy music was introduced

You really don't have to keep watching the thread you know :idea:

Exactly the corner I was speaking of, this has happened many times over the years, most of the time people ride it out ok without more than a stain, Koru didn't, yes shit happens, he is not making excuses, he is accepting it and is trying to learn from it. That is what an experienced rider does.

[UglyDogRacing]

You are probably right on that note.

My post was mostly directed at this:


According to your pic he went off when the turn tightened up, i.e. radius decreased. He either stood it up and went straight off or grabbed too much break and lowsided. Either way he panicked and crashed, which is how most motorcycle accidents happen.
So let me ask you; what did you learn from this?

[WolFeYeZ]

No panicking, no braking, no crashing, no drama! :D

check, check, check and... oops

[grim]

You really don't have to keep watching the thread ya know

whoa whoa whoa bueller I was merely just adding some happy music to this rather entertaining thread I'm not complaining Im learning!

[Bueller]

According to your pic he went off when the turn tightened up, i.e. radius decreased. He either stood it up and went straight off or grabbed too much break and lowsided. Either way he panicked and crashed, which is how most motorcycle accidents happen.

Or he might have ridden it out but with bad body positioning the lean angle of the bike has to be increased to compensate and not far from contacting hard parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLiovGtZapw

[UglyDogRacing]

No panicking, no braking, no crashing, no drama! :D

check, check, check and... oops

Why no braking? And I don't think you will ever be able to go without your drama. :lol:

[UglyDogRacing]

Or he might have ridden it out but with bad body positioning the lean angle of the bike has to be increased to compensate and not far from contacting hard parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLiovGtZapw


If he did that I don't think the point of impact into the guardrail would be where it's show in the pic. It would be further through the curve. The picture depicts the bike and rider almost going straight off.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Well, he probably shouldn't have tried to pass that white car on the inside... ;)


FTW!! :lol:

[WolFeYeZ]

Why no braking? And I don't think you will ever be able to go without your drama. :lol:

No braking ever cuz I like to go 190 with my balls out.

But really here is my correction "no grabbing at the brakes in a corner". Are my posts satisfactory yet? :P

[UglyDogRacing]

No braking ever cuz I like to go 190 with my balls out.

But really here is my correction "no grabbing at the brakes in a corner". Are my posts satisfactory yet? :P

Aparently you're an expert now after your 6 months of riding so I'm not going to bother anymore.

[Ghost]

You really don't have to keep watching the thread you know :idea:


There's nothing else on. CSC needs better programming.




No braking ever cuz I like to go 190 with my balls out.

But really here is my correction "no grabbing at the brakes in a corner". Are my posts satisfactory yet? :P


Aparently you're an expert now after your 6 months of riding so I'm not going to bother anymore.

^And then there's stuff like this which makes it amusing enough to keep checking back for...

[Vellos]

Trail braking? :dunno:

[WolFeYeZ]

Aparently you're an expert now after your 6 months of riding so I'm not going to bother anymore.

I am still a newb and nowhere close to losing the status, but thank you for the interpretation. Serious sorry for bringing up other ideas, but I do like to get everything answered that I can to help my own riding. Sometimes I would like to hear more than just "over his head" and "he panicked" but there does not often seem to be any more of an answer than that. I do understand that very often I am incorrect as well and throwing out the facts I know of the incident which are few.

[WolFeYeZ]

Trail braking? :dunno:

Someone trying to explain trail braking in another thread:


Drag the brakes , don't grab the brakes.

[MetaLord 9]

Ya know, I've read through most of the 7 pages of this thread, and I'm STILL not sure who's ePenis is bigger :dunno:

[UglyDogRacing]

Ya know, I've read through most of the 7 pages of this thread, and I'm STILL not sure who's ePenis is bigger :dunno:

It's gotta be yours since you felt compelled to drop in. :cheers:

[grim]

vellos you throw one hell of a party!

[McVaaahhh]

IBTL. :cheers:

[DriverDave]

For all that don't know or think they know, the #2 turn (first right hander) going up Bear Creek is NOT "the" decreasing radius turn on that road. Counting every little curve, the one real decreasing radius turn is about #14 (or #5 coming down from the little church). And it has a "U" sign with a recommended speed of 30mph, which in my opinion is too fast. Most cars would squeal their tires at that speed. And most sport bikers that "double" the recommended corner speeds couldn't make that corner at 60mph...even if they were an expert. I know that road well, and even knowing where it is and how severe it is, I still hit it too fast sometimes and drift left a little.

That first right hander where he crashed is a pretty standard, even corner with good pavement and usually no debris. Hell, it could have been something as simple as a giant fresh bird shit that caused a break in traction...doesn't take much on the front tire to put you down.

Sorry, all the incorrect comments about the corner were bugging me.

OK, I'm done.

[Vellos]

The corner in question does suggest 25 and anything below 30 I go carefully around. The worse diminishing that Dave is talking about suggests 30 when it should be 25 as even most cars have to brake hard when it sharpens up.

[CaptGoodvibes]

There aren't any giant flying birds anymore. Sorry, but that was bugging me. ;)

[OUTLAWD]

Sometimes I would like to hear more than just "over his head" and "he panicked" but there does not often seem to be any more of an answer than that.

While I don't have any statistics to support this, the majority, if not all, of single vehicle motorcycle accidents I have come across are caused by rider error.

I am not saying that anyone was riding over their head, and I wasn't there to witness this incident in particular, but what other answers are you looking for?

in the case of gravel/ice/pothole/etc. the rider was not riding to the road conditions present.

running wide, or other "off line" incidents, the rider was probably target fixating or didn't have appropriate reference points for the speed they were travelling.

another one is knee jerk reactions coupled with not being smooth, these will upset the bike's suspension under ideal circustances, and only gets worse as the situation/environment becomes less ideal.

more experienced riders can sometimes have skills that allow them to overcome some of these rider errors, like trail braking to further scrub off speed while leaned over, altering body position to be able to take a corner faster, or being able to smoothly transition the bike, and apply the gas/brake, etc.

[DriverDave]

There aren't any giant flying birds anymore. Sorry, but that was bugging me. ;)

Sure there are...I call them shit-a-quarts. I've seen splats as big as a CD.

[WolFeYeZ]

While I don't have any statistics to support this, the majority, if not all, of single vehicle motorcycle accidents I have come across are caused by rider error.

I am not saying that anyone was riding over their head, and I wasn't there to witness this incident in particular, but what other answers are you looking for?

in the case of gravel/ice/pothole/etc. the rider was not riding to the road conditions present.

running wide, or other "off line" incidents, the rider was probably target fixating or didn't have appropriate reference points for the speed they were travelling.

another one is knee jerk reactions coupled with not being smooth, these will upset the bike's suspension under ideal circustances, and only gets worse as the situation/environment becomes less ideal.

more experienced riders can sometimes have skills that allow them to overcome some of these rider errors, like trail braking to further scrub off speed while leaned over, altering body position to be able to take a corner faster, or being able to smoothly transition the bike, and apply the gas/brake, etc.

Hey, thanks man. I really appreciate it. What are some of these skills to work on for overcoming some of these problems?

[Vellos]

Hey, thanks man. I really appreciate it. What are some of these skills to work on for overcoming some of these problems?


more experienced riders can sometimes have skills that allow them to overcome some of these rider errors, like trail braking to further scrub off speed while leaned over, altering body position to be able to take a corner faster, or being able to smoothly transition the bike, and apply the gas/brake, etc.

:roll:

[WolFeYeZ]

:roll:

Reading fail for the most part. Thanks :P

[OUTLAWD]

Hey, thanks man. I really appreciate it. What are some of these skills to work on for overcoming some of these problems?

Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist books are a good read and go into detail about techniques and putting them into practice.

for street riding, proper reference points, lane position, "panic" braking without panic, and staying relaxed are good places to focus on first.

I know some people are anti-track and whatnot, but honestly, pushing you and your bike's limits in a controlled-esque environment will give you a better feel for what these things are actually capable of.

As you push harder you may uncover body position or technique issues that are causing problems, even though these issues might go un-noticed during street riding, when you correct them or alter your style, your street riding will improve as well. it is a continuing process for sure.

[koru]

Been racking my brain for the answer of what i did wrong for the most part. I think I may have had a bit much tire pressure and was leaned over too far or my tires were too cold and washed out. But my tire pressure was a little high which when i checked it the night before it was lower so beats me kinda hard to pin point when your watching your baby take off with out you ....so sad but all my fixer parts will be here soon. Cant wait to get back out there and maybe i was just complacent all it takes is one quick second and ding fries are done. Im so glad another rider or car wasnt coming the other way I couldnt live with myself if i hurt someone else.