Chain & Sprocket Info Help

[Vellos]

I don't know a whole lot about the chain and sprocket other than its purpose. Since mine is getting pretty bad I'm in the market for a new one, but would like to know more about my options.

What are the advantages of changing the teeth numbers?

What is a 520 chain?

What are some good brands and bad brands?

Should I just get another OEM?

Any other information about the chain/sprocket would be wonderful too. Thanks for your input.

[madvlad]

The 525 is probably the stock thickness of your OEM chain... The 520 is a lighter chain as its a bit thinner. Going down in the front will give you torque but sacrificing top end and going up in the rear as well, then going up in the front and down in the rear will give you top end but sacrifices torque. I did a 525 -1/+3 on my gixxer and it was nice.

[Vellos]

I assume a thinner chain would wear out faster. I'm guessing it's a track thing then and wouldn't benefit street riding what-so-ever.

[WolFeYeZ]

I assume a thinner chain would wear out faster. I'm guessing it's a track thing then and wouldn't benefit street riding what-so-ever.

That sounds about right from what I know. I would also probably stay away from buying the OEM stuff since its going to cost tons more (at least it did in my case).

[Sean]

What are the advantages of changing the teeth numbers?It changes the acceleration curve. Going higher in the rear sprocket will give you more acceleration at lower RPMS, but sacrifice your top end speed. Lower teeth in the back will give you a higher top speed, but you won't have as much acceleration at lower RPMS. My 2001 R6 didn't really have good acceleration below 7k RMPs. I did -1, +2 and there was a lot more usable acceleration starting at 3k. I did lose some top speed, but I was okay with that. I had much more drive out of the corners. Note that it does throw off the speedo even more.


What is a 520 chain?Thinner, lighter, less rotational mass. But it also does wear out faster than a 525 or 530. Not really necessary unless your racing.


What are some good brands and bad brands?
Lots of good brands. When shopping I went with a Pitbull (the company that makes the stands) package and it was affordable and solid.

Should I just get another OEM?It wouldn't be the worst choice, but I think there are better ones available.


Any other information about the chain/sprocket would be wonderful too. Thanks for your input.For the rear sprocket, don't get aluminum. They wear out to quick.

[madvlad]

I assume a thinner chain would wear out faster. I'm guessing it's a track thing then and wouldn't benefit street riding what-so-ever.

Most people use it cause it saves "weight" but well it all depends on chain care and how hard youre on your bike. I would stick with the 525 as your riding style is demanding. Theres the 530 applications for stuntaz ja! Lol... Vortex sprockets are good but do wear down kind of quick. I had the vortex rear and AFM or AFAM front (i think that is the brand name but feel free to correct me). The most common chain/sprocket conversion is the 520 -1/+2

[rybo]

I assume a thinner chain would wear out faster. I'm guessing it's a track thing then and wouldn't benefit street riding what-so-ever.

Yes and no

It's lighter and it's rotating mass, so losing weight there is more important than losing weight elsewhere on the bike. You might notice a difference on the street, but that difference won't equate to anything more than additional performance that you can't actually use.


My recommendation --

Stick with stock chain width (525) and steel sprockets. They last longer and work just as well for your application. As for regearing -

you can't use all the bike has for top speed anyways so adding a couple teeth in the rear will get you some additional "off the line" performance. I would suggest adding teeth at the rear over dropping teeth in the front as when you decrease the radius of the front sprocket you increase wear / friction.

Finally if you do change gearing know that your bikes speedo pickup is on the front sprocket, so your speedometer will be inaccurate. there are speedohealers and stuff to fix this if it's important to you.

s

[cptschlongenheimer]

good thread.
thx.

[Sean]

I ninja'd Rybo by a minute? This is the greatest day of my life! Dementia must be setting in for the old man? :slappers:

[Vellos]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know roughly how much top speed loss is per tooth change? Like 5%?

Didn't know sprockets came in different materials, will be sticking with steel then. I think I'll look into 525 0/+2. Do the bike manufactures make different sprocket sizes or just OEM sizes? The Kawi ones are about the same price as aftermarket kits.

[Ezzzzy1]

When it comes to chains you get what you pay for... Cheap ones stretch a lot!

[madvlad]

Thanks guys.

Does anyone know roughly how much top speed loss is per tooth change? Like 5%?

Didn't know sprockets came in different materials, will be sticking with steel then. I think I'll look into 525 0/+2. Do the bike manufactures make different sprocket sizes or just OEM sizes? The Kawi ones are about the same price as aftermarket kits.

Mine was off by about 10 mph with my gearing. It was 15 and 48 from a 16/45 stock

[brennahm]

+1 on getting a nice X/W ring chain. They last much longer.

+1 to steel sprockets...unless you're more into how your sprocket looks than how it performs.

Most OEM chains as I recall are endless...just like your stock chain. Usually kind of a pain in the ass to install...

[Sean]

My understanding is that the top speed loss is pretty minimal. going up two teeth in the back will drop your top speed from 164-155. That's just a guess. In other words, speeds you probably shouldn't need on the street.

If you are on and Kawi forums, I might check there and see if there is a good combo that most people are going with. :dunno: hanging from stock to -1/+2 is a pretty drastic change. Commuting down 36 I would be running just under 1k RPM's higher, than if it was in stock configuration.

[Ezzzzy1]

Mine was off by about 10 mph with my gearing. It was 15 and 48 from a 16/45 stock

And.... If you change the gearing it will throw off the speedo and miles. You can correct it but it costs some cash. IE Speedohealer.

I went with a final drive ratio of 3.33 (15f/50r) on the R6 and like it. Kinda depends on how much highway riding you do. If its a lot I would go with a lower drive ratio because your bike will be SCREAMING even at 65-75 mph.

[madvlad]

Yea highway riding sucked lol, not gearing the R1 at all.

[Bueller]

http://www.gearingcommander.com/

[Graphite675]

Go here and pick your bike (should have most listed). Will give you a good idea of how gearing changes will effect your bike.

http://gearingcommander.com/



Edit: Dammit Bueller, you beat me to it!

.

[Bueller]

Well you took the time to explain what to do with the link :lol:

[Vellos]

That site has some useful information if you clicky on the help buttons. Thanks linkers.

[DriverDave]

I just swapped my 530 chain, -0 Front, +2 steel rear for a 520 DID gold x-ring, -0 front, aluminum +2 rear on my 550lb, 100hp VFR800. The rear is a Vortex with a special hard coating that makes it last nearly as long as steel. It's the same setup Dave (RIP) had on his VFR and he loved it and said it lasted just about as long as the 530/steel. The weight and size difference between a 530 and a 520 is surprisingly substantial. I've only taken it out for a short test run, but it definitely feels quicker.

[TransNone13]

I just want to throw some comments down too. I've owned 3 bikes, currently 2. The first was a 600RR and I went -1 front +2 rear with an aluminum sprocket and 520 chain. It's noticeable on the street and I liked it so much, I did it again on my 1000RR with the knowledge I've gained and chose the same configuration. I have driven sprockets and I've never had an issue with the Al on my 1000RR, I'm at about 6000 miles and the teeth look good. Also, don't buy a cheap chain. I spent some cash and got the premium DID X-ring chain. The lightest with enough tensile strength. Both had Healtech speedohealers, easy to install and cost around $200. They show your top speed too when you push the button :). The only thing I'd consider changing is going to a Supersprox SS/Al hybrid sprocket.

Now for the other bike, the RC8 came with an Al rear and 520 setup. I would have moved to that if it didn't come with it. I mean, they wear out quicker, but what's a $70 sprocket every year if that?

[Vellos]

My same-tooth same-link (bottom of the page on the left) for OEM sprockets has 1 for the front (which apparently is not good for the chain) and 43 in the back. If I went down 1 in the front and 2 up in the back I would get a ratio of 15 and 45. But my front sprocket would suffer 250 more link contacts per mile (about 10% increase). Top end goes down by 9mph and highway RPMs (6th going 65) goes up by 680. My bike is pretty silent with stock exhaust so the sound difference isn't big, just extra engine wear is my concern.

As I am no expert, does anyone have an opinion on this configuration?

[TransNone13]

Just checked in above, I really like -1/+2. My top speed dropped to around 170 with the kit. I never went faster than that with the OE setup.

[DriverDave]

Do this...buy a -0 and a -1 front and a +2 rear. Put on the -1 first (with the +2R) and see how you like it. If you find it too buzzy on the highway, you can throw the -0 on without any harm to the new chain.

[Vellos]

I'd like to do that, but I'm working hard on spending less money. :)

[madvlad]

Front sprockets are pretty cheap

[duelist13]

Stick with the stock gear ratio, you're going to install a speedohealer since the speed will be off, and the rides down to MoCo are going to be at 2k+ higher RPM (I'm guessing) with -1 +2.

[CaneZach]

I highly recommend getting steel sprockets, especially for street riding, since you don't really need to worry about rotating mass. The aluminum sprocket will wear out in about 6k miles or so and they pick the absolute worst time to go out.

[BC14]

I highly recommend getting steel sprockets, especially for street riding, since you don't really need to worry about rotating mass. The aluminum sprocket will wear out in about 6k miles or so and they pick the absolute worst time to go out.
I wonder how you know that??? :p

[Ezzzzy1]

-1+2 is a pretty typical setup for a lot of bikes. For me I am at about 1000 rpms for every 10 mph. 60 mph is 6000 rpms 70 is 7000 and so on. Speedohealer is what I have and I think it was $115 for the new one, plug and play.

[CaneZach]

I wonder how you know that??? :p

Thankfully someone had a couple of wrenches I could use or I'd have been SOL

[Vellos]

Stick with the stock gear ratio, you're going to install a speedohealer since the speed will be off, and the rides down to MoCo are going to be at 2k+ higher RPM (I'm guessing) with -1 +2.

It's only 680 RPM higher as I previously stated. And I wouldn't mind investing in a healer since the OEM speedo is off to begin with.

[konaman]

From my experience, the -1 in the front is equal to +3 in the rear, so on that note a -1/+2 kit is equal to +5 in the rear. I have a -1/+2 kit on my 05 600RR and to be honest I think I want to go up some more. My top end has gone down a good bit but who really tops out that often. I love the low end torque, I guess it is just time to upgrade to a liter bike. I think the next sprocket kit I will install a plus 5 kit on the rear and see how that does.

[grim]

pretty ironic you started this thread today I had to tighten my chain when i got home today good info!!!!

[brennahm]

Driven Al sprockets do NOT last. And to the guy who replaces his sprockets every year...facepalm.

Vellos, regarding Al vs steel it comes down to do you want those extra fractions that you can gain simply with sprocket choices and lose longevity?

[TransNone13]

Driven Al sprockets do NOT last. And to the guy who replaces his sprockets every year...facepalm.

Vellos, regarding Al vs steel it comes down to do you want those extra fractions that you can gain simply with sprocket choices and lose longevity?

My Driven is going strong, what happened to yours?

[brennahm]

Started ripping teeth off with 400cc. Couple thousand miles.

Sure you could baby it, but I ride the same way with steel and have no longevity issues.

[madvlad]

Is all about the riding style you do

[Concabar]

Good info. I am in the market to replacing mine

[Vellos]

What about O ring vs X ring chains?

Also I'm having trouble finding a steel 525 kit online, everything seems to be 520 oriented. Any good brands to look for? I read that a Driven aluminum chain lasted 2,000 miles, how are their steel?

[Ezzzzy1]

What about O ring vs X ring chains?

Also I'm having trouble finding a steel 525 kit online, everything seems to be 520 oriented. Any good brands to look for? I read that a Driven aluminum chain lasted 2,000 miles, how are their steel?

Dude... Get the 520 it will hold up. I am running driven steel sprockets with a RK x ring chain and love them. Its a really good setup.

[Vellos]

How long have you had that set up? Couple thousand miles?

[FZRguy]

A 520 chain measures 5/8" between pins, and the pin is 2/8 or 1/4" diameter. A 525 chain has a slightly larger pin. No reason really not to go with a 520 conversion kit.

If you want the best, go here: http://www.sidewindersprockets.com/index.html

303 Cycle can order Sidewinder products.

[OUTLAWD]

for street riding, the most I'd go -1/+2, with steel sprockets and a quality x ring chain (DID EVR3 for example). size doesn't much matter, but sometimes 520 stuff is more common (as you're finding out)

go for x ring over o ring, as they are better at keeping grease in/junk out

and I've got you covered on getting it on

[Ezzzzy1]

How long have you had that set up? Couple thousand miles?

Been on it for 3500... No issues what-so-ever.

[Vellos]

Turns out my OEM chain is a 520. And my chain doesn't seem to be the problem I think it's my front sprocket that has gone to shit. Going to open it up tomorrow and investigate.

More questions... When you're changing out the sprockets do you have to do the chain too, or it is just customary? How can you tell when your chain has gone bad? Mine loosens up after an adjust in about 50 miles of paced riding. Is that a bad chain or could it be caused by the sprocket?

[Spooph]

to see if the chain is shot - pull the chain off the rear sprocket in the middle of the sprocket - so with your hand horizontally behind the axle. A chain is worn when it has too much play in between the links, and if it has this play, you will be able to pull it off rear sprocket a little bit. A new chain, even if not right, wile wrapped around the rear sprocket will not be able pull of the sprocket at all. Also, concerning ratios.... You wanna have greater acceleration, or you want the RPM's to be lower at cruising?

[Penadam]

I think you should get this. I heard it helps with your yut ughhhh!
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd103/Razorsedgepit06/vortexal.jpg

Weren't you giving me crap all the time for being -1 +2? What changed your mind, tired of losing the drag races all the time?

[brennahm]

Check out the race spools on that thing! Extra-lightweight!

[Ezzzzy1]

Having to adjust a chain after 50 miles means that either the chain is spent or the chain is new and cheap. Yours is spent.

GET A NEW SET OF SPROCKETS WITH A 520 CHAIN. DONT GO CHEAP!!!! NO ONE ON HERE WILL BE ABLE TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU WILL BE HAPPY WITH AS FAR AS GEARING GOES SO JUST GO WITH THE TYPICAL -1+2 AND SEE HOW IT WORKS FOR YOU.

[Concabar]

Vellos not trying to thread jack you, but I have a couple questions about this topic. I have an 07 R6 S model. I am getting ready to order a chain and sprockets. Question: what size sprocket should I order for the front and rear, and how many links will I need for the chain, also should I get the clip or rivet. The site I am ordering the chain from only has 120 linked chain.

[TransNone13]

The rivet style gives you a little more piece of mind. I had the clip on my master link on another bike nearly come off. Most sites will tell you the stock gearing and the linked site will help you calculate RPMs and Top Speed with given gear ratios. And if you need another length, try another site or a different brand?

The stock gearing for your bike is 16/45 with a 114 link chain according to gearing commander for 06-07 R6...

[Vellos]

I have an 07 R6 S model. I am getting ready to order a chain and sprockets. Question: what size sprocket should I order for the front and rear, and how many links will I need for the chain

Looks like an 07 R6 has 16 front, 45 rear, 114 links.

[Vellos]

Having to adjust a chain after 50 miles means that either the chain is spent or the chain is new and cheap. Yours is spent.

Spooph helped me out with this. Turns out my sprockets are alright for the life on them. My chain is okay too except for two links which are causing drag, clunking sounds, and the chain to loosen up quickly.

I'll be getting a 520 x-ring chain and a -1 +2 sprocket setup. Possibly the life-time guarentee ones from Sidewinder. :eyebrows:

[Concabar]

Thanks Transnone

[CaneZach]

and I've got you covered on getting it on

:shock:

[Ezzzzy1]

The stock gearing for your bike is 16/45 with a 114 link chain according to gearing commander for 06-07 R6...

Stock for the 07 R6s is 16/48 and 120 links will be good for anything you are thinking about Concabar...

[TransNone13]

Stock for the 07 R6s is 16/48 and 120 links will be good for anything you are thinking about Concabar...

That did seem off seeing how the stock for the 09 CBR1KRR is 42 rear. I remember the R6s being "a lot" more. I pulled up the R6 assuming it was the same. Thank you for the correction.

[Concabar]

Stock for the 07 R6s is 16/48 and 120 links will be good for anything you are thinking about Concabar...

Thanks EJ. After I looked on online it was 16/48. I could of sworn you said a lesser number on the chain link, but I can't remember

[Ezzzzy1]

You will remove some links depending on what sprockets you get... I think I had to cut off 4 with my -1+2 setup so yes, less links but you need to buy the 120.

[OUTLAWD]

120 is standard for aftermarket chains, like EZ said, you then cut to length depending on your setup

[Concabar]

Thanks. I appreciate the help. The parts are on order. :)

[TransNone13]

Thanks. I appreciate the help. The parts are on order. :)

What did you end up getting?

[Concabar]

What did you end up getting?

EK 520 MVX Super Sport Series Chain (red) Rivet (black)

Driven Colored 520 Front/Rear sprockets

I am gonna have to see about getting a chain breaker. I am looking online for one

[TransNone13]

EK 520 MVX Super Sport Series Chain (red) Rivet (black)

Driven Colored 520 Front/Rear sprockets

I am gonna have to see about getting a chain breaker. I am looking online for one

Nice; if you have one, you can dremel the master link as well. I'm sure someone has one you can borrow.

[Concabar]

Nice; if you have one, you can dremel the master link as well. I'm sure someone has one you can borrow.

Yea I don't have a dremel either. Hopefully the parts will be here by the end of the week, so I can put them on sunday.

[Vellos]

Finally ordered -1/+2 sprockets. Then tried to order my OEM chain and the guy was like you can't use the same chain length when you change sprocket sizes. So I cancelled my order. :(

Then found out what chain length I needed for the sprocket change... and it was the exact same length as before. But I found a D.I.D. x-ring chain for half the price of OEM.