Fuel Geyser / Vent Line?

[Ghost]

2009 CBR600RR
No Mods
Stock Gas Tank/Stock Cap
Tank has never been off the bike, fuel lines stock, stock placement, nothing altered/changed/etc.


Had a nasty surprise riding today--went to check my fuel level and the tank expelled a (literal) geyser of fuel everywhere, it was enough to thoroughly soak me, and another rider who was probably 3 Feet away.

When it sprayed out, we looked into the tank and what was left appeared to be (again, no joke) boiling.

Sun + Altitude (Colorado 14k elevation) are obviously a factor, but in no way should this have happened.

I assume there's a tank vent, and I assume it's clogged, but I don't have a pdf of the shop manual to locate it.

I've not taken the plastics off yet, but I know/remember that one hose is clearly the overfill drain (probably has a carbon canister I'd guess) but where is the vent line?

And if it's just a pinched line, would it really build up that much pressure or is there something else I need to be looking for?

[TransNone13]

That's what it sounds like. If you've lifted and worked under the tank and kinked the hose that would explain it.

[Ghost]

That's what it sounds like. If you've lifted and worked under the tank and kinked the hose that would explain it.

I've never lifted the tank, but who knows what they did at the dealership when they replaced the ECU. AFAIK, it's under the seat tucked up towards the front of the subframe, but maybe they lifted the tank for...I dunno why...

Anyone have a PDF diagram of the 09 600RR?

[TransNone13]

It's right on top of the airbox IIRC. That's why I do my own work, so I can work on it with love... I will link you to a public domain service manual. Wait one...

I'm uploading my copy for you now, just give me a few minutes. It's an 08 manual, but it's 99% identical.

[Ghost]

It's right on top of the airbox. That's why I do my own work, so I can work on it with love... I will link you to a public domain service manual. Wait one...

I'm uploading my copy for you now, just give me a few minutes. It's an 08 manual, but it's 99% identical.

Sweet. Many Thanks man!

[Ghost]

That thing's still under tremendous pressure, and the cap is *really* F*ing hot...it's been in the garage in the shade since I got home and it's still acting like a pressure cooker...

If I vent that cap I bet it'll be Old Faithful Round #2, but I fear that much pressure will crack the tank...

I can't believe the stupid pinched vent hose hasn't blown off from the pressure...

[TransNone13]

BOOOOM goes the dynamite... or your gas tank...

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8CTtUSmHqKDZTg5Nzc0OGEtZmJlNy00ZGFiLTgxO GQtNzYyMzQ3NDZiMzVi&hl=en_US

You want page 1-28.

[Ghost]

Downloading now!

(($5 to anyone who wants to come open the tank :p )

[TransNone13]

Come on now, you can do it... lol.

[Ghost]

Come on now, you can do it... lol.

I've already had my gasoline facial & bath for the day. :lol:

[TransNone13]

Your bike gave you a money shot. Approach slowly with kill rag.

[Ghost]

Your bike gave you a money shot. Approach slowly with kill rag.

Yeah, I'm thinking you're dead on...

[asp_125]

Place cold wet towel over tank to reduce the heat somewhat before opening.

[BC14]

Hopefully the change in pressure doesn't buckle the tank in.....

[Ghost]

Place cold wet towel over tank to reduce the heat somewhat before opening.

Will do.


Hopefully the change in pressure doesn't buckle the tank in.....

Great...and here I was afraid it'd burst from over-pressure...

[BC14]

Will do.



Great...and here I was afraid it'd burst from over-pressure...
Sudden change in pressure from going hot to cold can suck the tank in on itself.. Haven't been a witness to that yet, though.

[TransNone13]

Were you able to find the problem yet?

[Ghost]

Were you able to find the problem yet?

No, haven't even pulled the plastics yet.

I've been slowly venting using the cap to barely bleed pressure until it gets too hot to comfortably hold (as it's steaming the wet rag as it vents).

It's creepy to hear the gas boiling too, btw...

Once I've got it vented I'll pull the plastics and check the lines, then if the tank's cool enough I'll tip it up and see what I see...

[TransNone13]

That's insane dude. I didn't even know this could happen. You may be able to inspect the line from the left side of the bike unless the kink is directly under the tank.

[Ghost]

That's insane dude. I didn't even know this could happen.

Neither did I...

It's actually kinda freaked me out, and is still freaking me out...and I have a new fear of burning alive...

[Cornfed]

So the vent tube runs under the tank?
I'd like to laugh and call it another story made in the canyons, but honestly, it's not that funny, kinda scary.

[Cornfed]

"Hey guys, good ride today. There was that thing where Ghost and Wolfeyes were burned alive, but nobody crashed. So I'd have to say it was a good day".

[TransNone13]

Take pictures and document your findings. I would attempt to hold the shop liable for any damages you incurred if it was indeed related to their "work". Sounds like you'll be ok though, free oil change for being gassed?

[Ghost]

So the vent tube runs under the tank?
I'd like to laugh and call it another story made in the canyons, but honestly, it's not that funny, kinda scary.

Yeah, kinda down along the left frame rail and then it's one of the three tubes that exit the fairings on the left side.

For me, far more scary than funny. Granted, you had to be there, but I kept wondering when/if the tank was going to blow and if so, how quickly I'd be engulfed...and the SLOW traffic was really eating at me.

At least in movies bad guys always have a timer attached so you know how F'd you are, me I was just like "Hmm, tank hasn't blown, balls haven't roasted...yet...Hmm, tank hasn't blown, balls haven't roasted...yet...Hmm, tank hasn't blown, balls haven't roasted...yet..."


"Hey guys, good ride today. There was that thing where Ghost and Wolfeyes were burned alive, but nobody crashed. So I'd have to say it was a good day".

Exactly. Tombstones: "Burned alive but didn't crash." :lol:



Take pictures and document your findings. I would attempt to hold the shop liable for any damages you incurred if it was indeed related to their "work". Sounds like you'll be ok though, free oil change for being gassed?

Yeah, and the more I think about it, the more I think the "ECU" issue was probably this issue instead.

Think about--my original complaint was of what I thought was a fuel starvation issue, primarily at altitude, on hot August days last year (right after I bought the bike) and mid-to-high RPM/Throttle openings.

So, they guess it was an ECU issue with the baro sensor, but I think it was this all along. I've had other lug/surge issues that couldn't be duplicated, I've had the tank "pop" when opened before on hot days (though never, anything like this--just a bit of pressure release without anything else).

...meh, anyway, I'm hot, sweaty, tired, hungry and smell like I swam in a pool of Shell's finest. I've finally gotten the tank fully opened without the fireball I kept picturing in my head, I think I'm going to shower, eat, and deal with this tomorrow...and Tuesday it's going to the shop and we'll see hot that goes...:roll:

Guys, Thanks for everything, I really appreciate the help.

For Xmas, if you're shopping, I'd like some Nomex underwear and an EOD suit...

[spdu4ia]

I had a tank vent problem on another bike I had and it would build pressure like that as well. There are three things you need to look for.

1. Kinked hose/vent
2. check valve installed backwards
3. The emisions canister can become saturated with gasoline creating a "wet rag over an open drain" effect not allowing any gasses from escaping. I would remove the evap canister (if you have one) completely to eliminate this issue all together.

[Ghost]

I had a tank vent problem on another bike I had and it would build pressure like that as well. There are three things you need to look for.

1. Kinked hose/vent
2. check valve installed backwards
3. The emisions canister can become saturated with gasoline creating a "wet rag over an open drain" effect not allowing any gasses from escaping. I would remove the evap canister (if you have one) completely to eliminate this issue all together.

Thanks man, I will look into those areas.

I think only CA model CBRs have the charcoal canister, but if mine has one, it's coming off...

[Ghost]

Apparently this generation of 600RR is fussy:

http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?p=2721320
http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=135239
http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?p=3085729
http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=166117
http://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=155587

But, again, I haven't messed with mine...so...we'll see...

[Cornfed]

I was just like "Hmm, tank hasn't blown, balls haven't roasted...yet...Hmm, tank hasn't blown, balls haven't roasted...yet...Hmm, tank hasn't blown, balls haven't roasted...yet..."

Now thats funny.:pointlaugh:

Its too bad you had solve your long term, intermittant drive-ability issue this way but so be it. Like I said got to be worth at least 10 more hp. LOL.

Good to meet you. All in all had a good time today. :cheers:

[Ghost]

Now thats funny.:pointlaugh:

Its too bad you had solve your long term, intermittant drive-ability issue this way but so be it. Like I said got to be worth at least 10 more hp. LOL.

Good to meet you. All in all had a good time today. :cheers:

Definitely man, good meeting and riding with you, such as it was. And I really appreciated your escort, at least I knew I'd have a witness if it turned to flaming carnage on the 470.

Was a shit way to finally figure out my intermittent run issue, but IF that's it, and IF I get it fixed and IF we have better food service and NO lunchtime meth-head visitors or conga line traffic THEN we'd have a great ride...unless it's too boring/tame for you :p

Personally, I could do without Speed 10: Motorcycle Time Bomb and just have a nice ride. :D

[Ghost]

Update--

Stopped for gas during yesterday's ride and the fuel in the tank was under pressure when I opened the gas cap, and looking in both Brad and I saw that the fuel was fish-eye boiling with tiny wisps of vapor coming up.

Checked the vent line, didn't appear kinked, pinched, or otherwise obstructed, and this issue only seems to occur when ambient air temp is 85+ and definitely at 90+ like yesterday.

The run was to Deckers and back, so not even in high elevation like the last time when the tank decided to puke gas all over everyone within 5', but still it's a bit disconcerting to have fuel boiling in your tank...

Any ideas?

[madvlad]

Again?

[Ghost]

Again?

Yep. Not the full-on geyser, just a little wet fart when you open the tank, and then the lovely boiling gasoline...

[TransNone13]

Ghost have you taken out your evap canister? It can cause this crap... If not remove it, hell I'll do it for you.

[Ghost]

Ghost have you taken out your evap canister? It can cause this crap... If not remove it, hell I'll do it for you.

Bike's bone stock, so if it came with one then it's still on there. I thought only CA-model bikes had them, but maybe I need to actually go look at my bike later today and find out and see how it's connected and how to disconnect it.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[madvlad]

Wow man, that's seriously crazy. Last year was nuts, definitely don't want to go through that again...

[Ghost]

Wow man, that's seriously crazy. Last year was nuts, definitely don't want to go through that again... maybe the venting design is not enough to keep the pressure and temps down.


Yeah, I've not been up in the high country when the temps were over 85* yet this summer, but clearly it's possible with the weather now.

I'm definitely not in the mood to go experiment and see if I can get it to blow 2 gallons of gas all over hell again...

But, I do agree, there's some shitty design or manufacturing fault at work here as this is not "normal" by any means.

I did a Google search and apparently some Gold Wings and even some Rincon and other Honda ATVs have similar problems...

[TransNone13]

Most newer bikes are CA compliant. My CBR1000RR had it, my BMW G650, and my 1199S. Took it off of all of them. You have a 2008 right? I will send you a service manual.

In the meantime, here's a microfiche of it:

http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/model_years/1558-honda-2008-cbr600rr/assemblies/19334

[Ghost]

Most newer bikes are CA compliant. My CBR1000RR had it, my BMW G650, and my 1199S. Took it off of all of them. You have a 2008 right? I will send you a service manual.

In the meantime, here's a microfiche of it:

http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/model_years/1558-honda-2008-cbr600rr/assemblies/19334

Gotcha, guess I'm out of the loop.

Mine's a 2009, but I think it should be the same, or close enough.

Thanks man.

--when you removed yours, what did you do? Just splice in a hose where the tank was and run that out to the vent line under the fairing?

[madvlad]

And what's crazy is that Honda is doing nothing to take care of this... you can't be the only one so I'm sure plenty of complaints there. This being a dangerous issue as well since that tank under pressure is a ticking time bomb

[Ghost]

And what's crazy is that Honda is doing nothing to take care of this... you can't be the only one so I'm sure plenty of complaints there. This being a dangerous issue as well since that tank under pressure is a ticking time bomb

I spoke with Honda Customer Care and their Tech Line multiple times last year, I have notes from 5 different conversations, they sent a rep out to look at the bike when it was at the shop, and ultimately they've been acting like there's nothing wrong with the bike since it's an intermittent issue--and now that the bike's out of warranty they totally don't care.

So...yeah...kinda underwhelmed with their support and their attitude towards this whole thing, especially since all of the issues began shortly after purchasing the bike, and in the beginning the shop was putting more miles on it than I was trying to diagnose the problem...

[TransNone13]

Never had this issue on my '08. Posting link to manual...

[TransNone13]

Here you go!

http://www.cbrextreme.com/get/60/

[Ghost]

Never had this issue on my '08. Posting link to manual...

I used to know what the differences were between the two, and I know some of them dealt with emissions, but dunno if that's related or not.


Here you go!

http://www.cbrextreme.com/get/60/

Awesome, thanks again!

[TransNone13]

You just need to bypass the canister. So really all you need is some PVC NPT Y or T line and remove the canister. You could remove it all and cap off all the hose points. But you still need that overpressure/overfill drain line.

[TransNone13]

Looks like it's on the backside of the delta frame. Looking like 2 inlets and 1 drain. Patch the 2 through to the drain and viola! You also have a solenoid. That could be bad but not the cause... You could remove that and plug it and see if your bikes throws a service light. Or simply plug the evap canister end.

[Ghost]

You just need to bypass the canister. So really all you need is some PVC NPT Y or T line and remove the canister. You could remove it all and cap off all the hose points. But you still need that overpressure/overfill drain line.


Looks like it's on the backside of the delta frame. Looking like 2 inlets and 1 drain. Patch the 2 through to the drain and viola! You also have a solenoid. That could be bad but not the cause... You could remove that and plug it and see if your bikes throws a service light. Or simply plug the evap canister end.

Awesome, looks like I have a new summer project. I think I'll try to bypass/remove the canister and simplify the whole thing. My F4 simply vented to atmosphere and in its 10yrs with me it never leaked as much gas as the RR did when it blew 2+ gallons all over Mt. Evans, so as long it doesn't set a light I think simplest is best and the more I can remove the better--plus, less weight! ;)

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.

[TransNone13]

Awesome, looks like I have a new summer project. I think I'll try to bypass/remove the canister and simplify the whole thing. My F4 simply vented to atmosphere and in its 10yrs with me it never leaked as much gas as the RR did when it blew 2+ gallons all over Mt. Evans, so as long it doesn't set a light I think simplest is best and the more I can remove the better--plus, less weight! ;)

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it.

Yeah, you can probably do this in an hour. If you're in the Springs some time, I will do it for you, in maybe 30 minutes ;).

[Ghost]

Yeah, you can probably do this in an hour. If you're in the Springs some time, I will do it for you, in maybe 30 minutes ;).

If you say 1 then it'll probably take me 2 as I'm slow. ;)

I'm not usually in the Springs, but maybe this is worth a trip down. I'll try to look at it myself this week and see if I can swing it or not, if not I'll shoot you a PM or something if that's cool.

[TransNone13]

I'm off the next two weeks so I can be available whenever.