2 things.

[~Barn~]

1.) Despite my picture being used in the sig for the "Pigpen" account, I assure you that is not me. It's just a secondary account that one of our users chimes in with, from time to time.

2.) Setting sag on an sportbike, and giving recommendations for dialing your suspension isn't exactly rocket science. Assuming Vellos is at least marginally well-read on the topic, he can probably help you. If he puts half the attention into setting somebody's sag, as he does his auto detailing work, you're likely to come out of the deal with some improvement.

Carry on...

[Ted]

1.) Despite my picture being used in the sig for the "Pigpen" account, I assure you that is not me. It's just a secondary account that one of our users chimes in with, from time to time.

2.) Setting sag on an sportbike, and giving recommendations for dialing your suspension isn't exactly rocket science. Assuming Vellos is at least marginally well-read on the topic, he can probably help you. If he puts half the attention into setting somebody's sag, as he does his auto detailing work, you're likely to come out of the deal with some improvement.

Carry on...

:up:

[Ghost]

2.) Setting sag on an sportbike, and giving recommendations for dialing your suspension isn't exactly rocket science. Assuming Vellos is at least marginally well-read on the topic, he can probably help you. If he puts half the attention into setting somebody's sag, as he does his auto detailing work, you're likely to come out of the deal with some improvement.

Carry on...

So you're hereby accepting liability for his adjustments (as it was never established if he's just setting sag or "dialing in" a suspension)?

Or just trying to get Mel annoyed that you rekindled a thread she locked?

[~Barn~]

So you're hereby accepting liability for his adjustments (as it was never established if he's just setting sag or "dialing in" a suspension)?

Or just trying to get Mel annoyed that you rekindled a thread she locked?

You got me Chris Hansen... Both of those things.

[grim]

I understand why Mel locked the thread for "liability issues" to protect Vellos...BUT....it wouldnt effect the club or the forum in any way so i think locking the thread was a wee bit pre-mature. Anyone and everyone accepts the risk involved of having someone else work on their bike in any manor even if you do it yourself. If your willing to do the work and you know what your doing check it then check it again then to each their own i say!

my personal opinion!

[Jmetz]

"Simple" suspension setup doesn't really sound like dialing in. I honestly dont see how setting sag for someone has any less or more ramifications then changing their oil, sprockets, chain, tires........

[MetaLord 9]

IBTM

[~Barn~]

"In Before The Melanie" ?

[MetaLord 9]

Bingo.

[grim]

IBTM

:wtf:

[asp_125]

Open to guesses what "simple" is. Setting sag is easy. In fact I don't see any difference between this and the tech day we had at Dana's house last summer where a bunch of us worked on bikes, other than the fact this is Vellos. :dunno:

[McVaaahhh]

IBTM

Ditto. :lol:

[madvlad]

*sits down with an ice cold mountain dew along with a steaming popcorn bag and enjoys the show before the lock down hammer makes its way through* lol

[CaptGoodvibes]

As someone who is often misunderstood, I can easily relate to Vellos and his offer to help. I can't set sag without help so I haven't done it yet. But I'll be sure to buy Vellos a beer or three when I finally get around to contacting him about it.

[grim]

"In Before The Melanie" ?

AH :lol: guess i haven't been round long enough!

wonder how long before its locked out?

[Sean]

I don't understand, are people unable to offer "help" unless they have a legitimate business?It's possibly due to "other" threads that went south by the same poster. :dunno: I can see both sides of the argument.

[CaptGoodvibes]

So you're hereby accepting liability for his adjustments (as it was never established if he's just setting sag or "dialing in" a suspension)?

Or just trying to get Mel annoyed that you rekindled a thread she locked?

He offered to do it for free, which is hardly a professional service. The existence of MOM and tools required with every new bike suggest it is a user-serviceable operation.

[dragos13]

It's possibly due to "other" threads that went south by the same poster. :dunno: I can see both sides of the argument.

Yeah it seems to be more personal than anything else...

[Scatterbrain]

If you ask me i think anyone can get help on their bike in here and don't need a legitimate business. I know i've appreciated everyone's help i've gotten off this site, especially when it comes down to making my bike run a helluva lot better....

[grim]

If you ask me i think anyone can get help on their bike in here and don't need a legitimate business. I know i've appreciated everyone's help i've gotten off this site, especially when it comes down to making my bike run a helluva lot better....

+1 exactly my point maybe she was trying to help him or maybe Sean is onto something...who knows

[salsashark]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ltxYxRUiOOA/TjgBuTN3yfI/AAAAAAAAMhI/IjPVJ9HLqoU/what-memes-may-come.gif

[Ghost]

He offered to do it for free, which is hardly a professional service. The existence of MOM and tools required with every new bike suggest it is a user-serviceable operation.

Sure, but who assumes the risk? In a land where everyone likes to sue for everything you can't see the potential here?

Maybe you have more faith in your fellow rider than I do, but my cynicism suggests that once he "helps" and someone crashes it's pretty easy to jump from being "my fault" to "his fault"...

Licensed and registered shops carry insurance just for that reason...

[grim]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ltxYxRUiOOA/TjgBuTN3yfI/AAAAAAAAMhI/IjPVJ9HLqoU/what-memes-may-come.gif

ass crack NSFW!!! :lol:

[TinkerinWstuff]

IBTM


Ditto. :lol:

Me too :grab:

[Jmetz]

Going forward no one is allowed to help anyone do anything unless they are licensed and insured. :)

[Ezzzzy1]

I swear... Some people on here are fucking retarded:silly:

[TinkerinWstuff]

I've consulted with "free" spring rate calculators on the interwebz and then I consulted Dave at STMsuspension.

Good thing cuz the free calculators would have had me all f'd up.

If you've got to the point where you finally realize "one size" does NOT fit all. Go see Dave. His prices on parts are the same as the online stores and he's always been very generous sharing his knowledge in a consultative approach.

[Vellos]

Why can't I make one fucking thread without this shit happening. Apparently I'm too fucking stupid to make phone calls, host rides, or touch someone else's bike. A good portion of assholes on this forum need to mind their own business.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Going forward no one is allowed to help anyone do anything unless they are licensed and insured. :)

Seriously. I fucking hate our litigious society. Whatever happened to being a good neighbor?

If Vellos gets a waiver document will everyone be happy?

[~Barn~]

Why can't I make one fucking thread without this shit happening. Apparently I'm too fucking stupid to make phone calls, host rides, or touch someone else's bike. A good portion of assholes on this forum need to mind their own business.

I like you Vellos. You're crazy, but I like you.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Why can't I make one fucking thread without this shit happening. Apparently I'm too fucking stupid to make phone calls, host rides, or touch someone else's bike. A good portion of assholes on this forum need to mind their own business.

I feel your pain Vellos. It's like that for me on some boards.

[Ghost]

Why can't I make one fucking thread without this shit happening.

No offense, but perhaps your reputation--deserved or not--precedes you?

[Ezzzzy1]

George, this is a pretty bad ass site that I was turned onto by R1Nori (dude knows his shit). It is all the tested suspension setup numbers from sportrider magazine. You do need the owners manual and the numbers from the tests but these numbers have been tested and tested and were proven to be the best setups for each bike.

http://www.sportrider.com/suspension_settings/suspension/146_suggested_suspension_settings/index.html

[OUTLAWD]

In fact I don't see any difference between this and the tech day we had at Dana's house last summer where a bunch of us worked on bikes, other than the fact this is Vellos. :dunno:

I concur


Going forward no one is allowed to help anyone do anything unless they are licensed and insured. :)

I guess so.


From here on out:
-I will not tow anyone's bike to the track, because I am not a professional towing company
-I will not pick up any wrecked bikes in the canyons for the same reason
-I will not prep anyone's bike for a trackday because I do not build race bikes (other than ones that get ridden slowly by yours truly)
-I will not give any riding pointers, because I am not a certified instructor
-I will not help anyone make ANY adjustments, because I am not a "professional" gearhead
-I will not change any fluids, for fear of me not disposing of them correctly
-I will not help anyone look over any potential bikes before they purchase, because I am not a certified mechanic
...etc.

I will however, continue my pointless posting and trolling...I mean, this is the CSC, right? :dunno:

[UglyDogRacing]

Although I don't agree with everything that Vellos posts nor do I think he is necessarily qualified to do suspension set up and teach new riders, he should still be able to make a post on this forum that doesn't get locked down. If he wants to offer service, then let him. It's up to the members of this forum to use good judgement on whether they should look to him for help or not.

This is from the CSC forum faqs:


Occasionally, people wonder why we moderate (or don't) various items the way we do. Hopefully this clears it up.

CSC moderators function on the concept of "best effort". What this means is that we try to keep the peace on the forum where we feel it's necessary, but are under no obligation to do so. This also means that some things may get moderated while others do not. We also occasionally get complaints on moderation style. While not even close to inclusive, this may help you understand the basics we follow:
1. Threats against other members are not tolerated. We can edit, or remove any post that violates this rule.
2. If the majority of a thread has descended into something completely useless, inflammatory, or junior-high-popularity-contest-ganging-up-on-someone, we may lock the thread or remove it from public view.
3. We are not babysitters. We are not your parents. This forum is intended for adults, and we expect people to act like it. This also means that you should not come running straight to us just because someone made you angry/sad/emotional. You're a grown-up, deal with it. If it gets completely out of line we may elect to step in at our discretion, however we are under no obligation or precedent to do so. Sometimes people piss other people off, and this forum is certainly no different.
4. If you post something off-topic for a forum, expect it to get moved. If you do it a lot, expect it to get deleted and your posting privileges revoked.
5. If you join just to troll, your account will be deleted along with your posts rather unceremoniously.
6. If you're overly critical of our moderation style, expect us not to care. If you think you're god's gift to mods and can do it that much better, visit vbulletin.com, throw down some money, and give it a go


I don't see Vellos' post violating any of these imposed rules. It's my opinion that some of the moderators of this forum are vindictive and too quick to lock posts and ban users. There are a number of mods that are no longer active on this forum, unlike Chadwick aka Mothergoose, and only show up on occasion to flex their moderator muscle. They should be replace by members that are active every day in forum discussions.
Bob and Ralph, it's time for you guys to clean house.

[OUTLAWD]

I like you Vellos. You're crazy, but I like you.
:spit:

ditto

[~Barn~]

Jimmer for Moderator. Effective yesterday.

[TinkerinWstuff]

yeah - hang in there Vellos, you're a good dude.

[Jmetz]

Although I don't agree with everything that Vellos posts nor do I think he is necessarily qualified to do suspension set up and teach new riders, he should still be able to make a post on this forum that doesn't get locked down. If he wants to offer service, then let him. It's up to the members of this forum to use good judgement on whether they should look to him for help or not.

Exactly. I personally may not take him up on his offer, but everyone should be able to make their own decision on the matter. He has not represented himself as a professional suspension guru so there shouldn't be an issue. People can figure out for themselves if they want to take his help or not.

[rforsythe]

Bob and Ralph, it's time for you guys to clean house.

You really want me to go into the hypocrisy of you calling me out on that?

Mel felt the thread was headed off a cliff - I would say not because of Vellos, but everyone else jumping on his nuts for it. I stand by my moderators' decisions when they feel something is going a certain way, and trust their judgement. We may not always get it right 100% of the time, but we don't question each other.

I am also getting tired of the attacks against Vellos. He pushes some buttons and can be a dipshit at times, but really, if you don't like him then leave him alone. If he violates the board rules we'll get rid of him like anyone else, but quite honestly this gang-up mentality I'm seeing against him just makes me want to take his side.

[Spooph]

I like you Vellos. You're crazy, but I like you.

+1


If he wants to offer service, then let him. It's up to the members of this forum to use good judgement on whether they should look to him for help or not.


+1 Here's to the 1st Amendment and the motion for "Take responsibility for your own decisions Amendment"



I am also getting tired of the attacks against Vellos. He pushes some buttons and can be a dipshit at times, but really, if you don't like him then leave him alone.

+1

[UglyDogRacing]

You really want me to go into the hypocrisy of you calling me out on that?

Mel felt the thread was headed off a cliff - I would say not because of Vellos, but everyone else jumping on his nuts for it. I stand by my moderators' decisions when they feel something is going a certain way, and trust their judgement. We may not always get it right 100% of the time, but we don't question each other.

I am also getting tired of the attacks against Vellos. He pushes some buttons and can be a dipshit at times, but really, if you don't like him then leave him alone. If he violates the board rules we'll get rid of him like anyone else, but quite honestly this gang-up mentality I'm seeing against him just makes me want to take his side.

I'm no angel on this forum and there have been plenty of times in the past where I was out of line and voiced my displeasure at someone. I'm sure you could dig up plenty of instances where this was the case, including the couple of fake users I set up. But I have never agreed with locking threads that didn't justify it. You have 3-4 mods that are never on this forum anymore. I am suggesting that you replace them with current users that are active everyday. And no I am not asking to be one (thanks Barn). After the way you guys kicked me out back in 2003 because I was defending local shops that were being slammed on here, I have no desire to ever be a mod again.

[~Barn~]

~Barn~ for Moderator. Effective yesterday.

In all seriousness though, I do think Jim raises a good point. I personally enjoy seeing those appointed to Moderator/Admin positions, as people who are regular and reliable contributors to the forum. Chadwick is a great example, because of the frequency of his posts and offerings, and otherwise "content". As a general rule, it's sometimes hard to understand where a Mod might be coming from, with a "lock" or a "move" or whatever, when you don't often see their contributions in any other context. It's easy to get a reputation of the axe carrying executioner, lurking in the shadows - justified or not.

I get that this place isn't a democracy, and I'm personlly fortunate that I've been extended the latitude that I have, over the years... Including my years as a Moderator. But yeah... I think the comment about cleaning-house was only intended for continued progress, not to "call out" anybody. :dunno:

[Mel]

Whoa Whoa...Big Bad Mel is going to respond (and then ban Barn, and Chris, and probably reset someones post count just because I can).

FWIW...the thread wasn't locked because it was Vellos, or because I was being vindictive. The thread was locked because it was quickly going off a cliff...the point is, the thread was locked, not deleted. The information is out there, his offer is out there, it now has a hell of a lot more attention thanks to barn (Hey Vellos, you should hook Barn up on the suspension setup since he is bringing you all sorts of attention ;)).

As Vellos said in his first post in the other thread: he is offering a service, PM him if you want to take him up on it...locking the thread hasn't changed that, locking the thread has prevented another 8 pages of bringing up old shit which has nothing to do with setting up suspension or the offer to do so.

[Vellos]

Thanks Ralph. I certainly hope you've seen the non-forum side of me from my two times corner-working at Chicane. :dunno:

I guess I'll have to stop joking around with people whom I consider friends on the forum, because everyone who doesn't understand just sees it as me being an ass. And as far as they know goofs can't ride bikes, can't work on bikes, and are generally terrible people. Some people have their mind set on who I am despite never talking to me in person. So I'll slow down my forum participation and maybe read a book or something.

[Keyser Soze]

:lol: Awe poor Vellos. Dude pushes people's buttons and cries when they push back. It's teh innernets, harden the fuck up. We need more posts telling us how good of a person he is :lol:

As far as the lock, I dont see the point. Even it was headed for the shitter, who cares? Makes for some good reading.

[ghostrider_9]

This is my $.02, which in the real world doesn't amount to anything. Please feel free to agree or disagree, all I ask is that when you post, you treat others with the same respect that you would like in return . . .

I apologize for the thread jacking Barn, but I am going to address what I think might be the root of the issue.

The way I see it is that Vellos is simply trying to help out his fellow riders. I truly believe that his intentions are 100% on the level. I can understand why people would be a bit apprehensive. Let's be honest, the Vellos track record for rides that he has organized does not install a lot of trust and confidence in his leadership. Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps it has just been a matter of coincidence. I surely hope that is the case. I have heard several things from various conversations that kind of rub me the wrong way.

The bottom line is this - I don't see this issue as a problem with Vellos as some have indicated by their comments. I see this as an issue with those of us that appreciate what the CSC brings to the community.

Vellos - please understand that I am not attacking you in any way. This just happens to be the topic at hand. I do not know you personally, so any assumptions that are made are exactly that - assumptions. If I am wrong, then I apologize and hope that you would steer my opinion in the right direction, if you care to do so. These are the things that I have assumed from what I have seen & heard:

1. Apparently, Vellos likes to ride the canyons at a spirited pace. It seems that he does so at least fairly well. He is not the one that has been going down. So, I would speculate that he is a fairly competent rider.

2. Vellos likes the social aspect of riding. I make this assumption because I doubt that he would be here or organizing rides if he was a loner.

3. I believe that he wants to help those around him to be better riders, regardless of their current abilities. Again, he wouldn't offer to freely give up his time to help others if he didn't feel this way.

4. I believe that Vellos could use a bit of guidance or coaching from some of us who have been around the block once or twice.

All of these things are opinions and subject to what I have seen and heard, so take them with a grain of salt. With all of that said, this leads me to what I believe the crux of the problem is - I think that those of us with the experience and knowledge (I am not claiming that I am included in that group) are failing to help him out . . . either through pointing his efforts in the right direction or by helping him behind the scenes to make it better for everyone involved.

I applaud what I believe he is trying to do. At the same time, I admonish those of us that are standing around, whining and complaining regardless of whether it's behind his back or to his face. I am a part of CSC because I believe it can be a valuable tool for those of us that are still figuring out this whole motorcycle riding thing. I've been riding motorcycles since I was six years old and I am still learning. On top of it, I am very appreciative of the guidance and knowledge that I have gleaned from others along the way and will continue receive. I know that every single time I am on the track, I am watching what others are doing or talking to the people that have anything to offer that will help. On the other hand, when I am on a group ride, you will most likely find me being a sweeper, where I can hopefully offer some advice to those of us that would benefit from it while being there to help someone if they need a hand with their bike or whatever. This is exactly what I think we should be doing to help out Vellos.

Rather than jump all over the his case about trying to be helpful, I think we would all be better served in helping him. I can only speak for myself, but I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I have needed lots of "guidance" along the way. I certainly appreciate it more than I appreciate someone standing around not helping at all . . .

We have a pretty big trackday coming up soon (thank you Rybo & everyone else that has helped Chicane put this together). I think having a tech day would be a great benefit to those that either don't have the tools and space to get things set up, or those that would appreciate a little help in doing so. It doesn't have to be anything formal, but surely we could help Vellos (or anyone else that is willing to help) make something like this happen . . . and make sure that we have the right people on hand to impart their wealth of knowledge on any given subject.

That is all I have. I am curious to hear what others think. <Steps off soapbox>

[grim]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h54/irishrussianpunk/962833_o.gif

[ghostrider_9]

Thanks Ralph. I certainly hope you've seen the non-forum side of me from my two times corner-working at Chicane. :dunno:

I just realized that I have met him before. He was corner working the top of the corkscrew at the last Chicane trackday. This only supports what I said earlier . . .


Oh yeah, sorry about the crazy long post earlier, but I had to get it off my chest . . .

[Dr. Joe Siphek]

i don't even know who our mods are, other than Scott, mel, wick, ralph and bob. How many are there?

[Mother Goose]

~Barn~ for Moderator. Effective yesterday.
Didn't we try that once? ;)

[Ezzzzy1]

Whoa Whoa...Big Bad Mel is going to respond (and then ban Barn, and Chris, and probably reset someones post count just because I can).

Ummm.... Lets not forget about the first rule - 1. Threats against other members are not tolerated. We can edit, or remove any post that violates this rule.

[Keyser Soze]

Didn't we try that once? ;)


Mother Goose....you pussy!

[grim]

Ummm.... Lets not forget about the first rule - 1. Threats against other members are not tolerated. We can edit, or remove any post that violates this rule.

:lol: im supposed to be typing up a warranty report but this is just toooo good!

[~Barn~]

Didn't we try that once? ;)

We did.... And hey, I thought it was a pretty good time in retrospect; I enjoyed it.

But let's not kid ourselves, either.. This place is a cake walk to moderate today, compared to back then. I mean I'm pretty sure that there were a few of us back then, that actually planned on shooting one another! :guns:

If a fight didn't almost break out at The Breck once a month, something was fishy. :lol:

[TransNone13]

Is there a solar eclipse, full moon, or alignment of the planets? Weird shit on the forum lately.

[Mother Goose]

We did.... And hey, I thought it was a pretty good time in retrospect; I enjoyed it.

But let's not kid ourselves, either.. This place is a cake walk to moderate today, compared to back then. I mean I'm pretty sure that there were a few of us back then, that actually planned on shooting one another! :guns:

If a fight didn't almost break out at The Breck once a month, something was fishy. :lol:
Don't make me come to your house!! :lol:

[Dr. Joe Siphek]

i think vance and cycle monkey were mostly to blame for that stuff way back then.

[Ghost]

i think vance and cycle monkey were mostly to blame for that stuff way back then.

Then CM found FB and now he's rarely on here anymore...

[cptschlongenheimer]

Is there a solar eclipse, full moon, or alignment of the planets? Weird shit on the forum lately.

Seriously...
Aren't the "400+ new posts" type of days supposed to be in January?
(goes back to his popcorn)

[grim]

Seriously...
Aren't the "400+ new posts" type of days supposed to be in January?
(goes back to his popcorn)

I ran out got some to spare?

[asp_125]

George, this is a pretty bad ass site that I was turned onto by R1Nori (dude knows his shit). It is all the tested suspension setup numbers from sportrider magazine. You do need the owners manual and the numbers from the tests but these numbers have been tested and tested and were proven to be the best setups for each bike.

http://www.sportrider.com/suspension_settings/suspension/146_suggested_suspension_settings/index.html

Hell, those settings are for a rider weight of 145lbs.. Geeze.. I'd have to be Pedrosa .. or Grubbs sized!

[~Barn~]

Standard & Poors has downgraded the CSC's global internet rating to "Sell!!!"

[Ezzzzy1]

Hell, those settings are for a rider weight of 145lbs.. Geeze.. I'd have to be Pedrosa .. or Grubbs sized!

How do you figure? I know guys that are using some of these setups that are 225lb and they love it.

[asp_125]

^ How do you figure? I know guys that are using some of these setups that are 225lb and they love it.

Read some of the comments, the guy was asked what his reference weight was and he said 145#. In any case, suspension settings are all weight dependent and differ from track to street. Anything beyond static sag, consult a suspension guru like Dave at STM. The SR guide will give you a baseline but not optimal.



Apologies for the thread jack... now back you your regular drama llamas.

[Keyser Soze]

Seriously...
Aren't the "400+ new posts" type of days supposed to be in January?
(goes back to his popcorn)

It's an internet forum...supposed to be posts and interaction...

[Ezzzzy1]

Read some of the comments, the guy was asked what his reference weight was and he said 145#.

I see that now... This is more how I have used their numbers, "All of these settings are a suggested starting point, so setting static sag will differ with every bike".

[Vellos]

Incase anyone hasn't messed with their own suspension, here is how I do simple setups...

1. Record all data for the current suspension setup incase it needs to be returned.
2. Set SAG on both ends for optimal function of their suspension.
3. Have the rider do a short loop on full hard and full soft compression/rebound so they can get a feel for the two extremes.
4. Set the comp/rebound in the middle range as long as the rebound has equal force on both ends and have the rider do the loop again.
5. Make small adjustments based on the rider's feedback and desires until finished.

Cheers.

[cptschlongenheimer]

It's an internet forum...supposed to be posts and interaction...

True.
And I'm guilty of being entertained by the drama too.
It's Just that it usually thickens with the colder temps. Kinda figured lots of seat time thickens skin.

I could be wrong but I think I've got more hours in the saddle than half the board this week. Mileage title Here I come!:eyebrows:


I ran out got some to spare?
Not surprised.
Too many more of these flame wars and I predict a shortage...
:D

[UglyDogRacing]

I see that now... This is more how I have used their numbers, "All of these settings are a suggested starting point, so setting static sag will differ with every bike".


alot of other variables come into play. as you said, it can be used as a starting point. whats more important is understanding what the bike is doing and making adjustments accordingly.

[UglyDogRacing]

Incase anyone hasn't messed with their own suspension, here is how I do simple setups...

1. Record all data for the current suspension setup incase it needs to be returned.
2. Set SAG on both ends for optimal function of their suspension.
3. Have the rider do a short loop on full hard and full soft compression/rebound so they can get a feel for the two extremes.
4. Set the comp/rebound in the middle range as long as the rebound has equal force on both ends and have the rider do the loop again.
5. Make small adjustments based on the rider's feedback and desires until finished.

Cheers.

Eliminate Step 3. You also need to take ride height into consideration. Granted a stock shock doesnt have any adjustments but you can raise and lower the front which will change your trail.

Do you know what kind of feedback to ask the rider for?

[TransNone13]

Eliminate Step 3. You also need to take ride height into consideration. Granted a stock shock doesnt have any adjustments but you can raise and lower the front which will change your trail.

Do you know what kind of feedback to ask the rider for?


When I've worked with Dave, I feel like I'm at counselling lol.

[asp_125]

#5 - assuming the rider knows what a correctly performing suspension feels like. You could get someone who *THINKS* a certain setting rides nice, but could be completely wrong for their intended riding.

[Vellos]

I'm doing it to learn more about suspension too. Not going to say "its fine, I did it like I did mine" if the person doesn't like the feel.

And I do encourage everyone do go to Dave at STM if they have the money and desire to get it done by a professional. I'm obviously not a professional, but since I didn't have the money I learned a lot by setting it up myself, and would like to learn more while making other people's bikes better too.

[~Barn~]

Speaking of suspension tweaking, anybody else here ever have Marcus McBain setup their rig back in the day? I think you did, Ralph. (?)

Anyway... That guy was a wiz!

[Vellos]

Again this is just a general setup for people who haven't really touched their suspension which could be way out of spec. I'm not going to do race setups or stuff like that, just make it less bad.

[UglyDogRacing]

#5 - assuming the rider knows what a correctly performing suspension feels like. You could get someone who *THINKS* a certain setting rides nice, but could be completely wrong for their intended riding.

And this is the hardest part of suspension set up. It's easy to add or remove preload and turn compression and rebound clickers in and out. The pro's have data acquisition which tells the engineers what to change, we don't. So we have to go by the seat of our pants.

[rforsythe]

Speaking of suspension tweaking, anybody else here ever have Marcus McBain setup their rig back in the day? I think you did, Ralph. (?)

Anyway... That guy was a wiz!

I thought so until he turned everything on my bike full soft, said it was good to go, and sent me out. After almost ending up in the concrete at PPIR I gave it back and he didn't believe he was the last one to touch it.

Dave is a far better professional tuner even notwithstanding that goof-up IMO.

[UglyDogRacing]

Again this is just a general setup for people who haven't really touched their suspension which could be way out of spec. I'm not going to do race setups or stuff like that, just make it less bad.

ok so you change some things and tell them to go ride it. they come back and you debrief them. what do you ask them?

[UglyDogRacing]

I thought so until he turned everything on my bike full soft, said it was good to go, and sent me out. After almost ending up in the concrete at PPIR I gave it back and he didn't believe he was the last one to touch it.

Dave is a far better professional tuner even notwithstanding that goof-up IMO.

Marcus McBain was alot of hype. There were more riders here that his setting up there bike was more a hinderance. I had him do my forks and he put the wrong spring spacers in and I had about half the travel that I should have.

[CaptGoodvibes]

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the Pope! Um, I'll come in again...

[Keyser Soze]

?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/3848/121324-142377-rainier-wolfcastle_large.jpg

[Clovis]

Where in Colorado Springs can I take my bike for a suspension adjustment?

[Spiderman]

Speaking of suspension tweaking, anybody else here ever have Marcus McBain setup their rig back in the day? I think you did, Ralph. (?)

Anyway... That guy was a wiz!

I brought my race bike to Marcus back in '04... Dave was mentoring with him at the time and he did the actual setup on my bike while Marcus double-checked it.

I seem to recall hearing talk in the pits that questioned Marcus' skill, but I having nothing to add or take away from that personally.

My R1 was setup by Mike Fitzgerald (Thermosman) in '03 at PPIR, and I haven't changed it since.

[cptschlongenheimer]

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the Pope! Um, I'll come in again...

:spit:
Thanks for that...
I almost forgot about that part...


Incase anyone hasn't messed with their own suspension, here is how I do simple setups...

1. Record all data for the current suspension setup incase it needs to be returned.
2. Set SAG on both ends for optimal function of their suspension.
3. Have the rider do a short loop on full hard and full soft compression/rebound so they can get a feel for the two extremes.
4. Set the comp/rebound in the middle range as long as the rebound has equal force on both ends and have the rider do the loop again.
5. Make small adjustments based on the rider's feedback and desires until finished.

Cheers.
Fwiw:
George your approach sounds pretty reasonable as does Jim's line of questioning about how to counsel a rider to get the best settings.

The only (limited) value I can add to this conversation is I advise you to change settings (after establishing a middle of the road, baseline) in small increments (it sounds like you already know this, it just hasn't been expressly expressed).

Most of the folks I know who have gotten themselves into trouble with suspension setup tried to make too many, too drastic changes and then went out and flogged the hell out of it in order to find out (the hard way)that they made their ride handle like a brick.

my $.02

[~Barn~]

Interesting feedback about McBain.. Granted Marcus never did any sort of track tuning for me, but the time he spent working on my R1 (which is to say about 45 minutes), really got my city riding a lot more sorted. And I too, get the sense that he leaned toward comfort/plushness.

[asp_125]

I had the "bass boat" set up by Ricky Orlando's mechanic at RMK. I was surprised how plush it seemed compared to my street bike. Yet it works perfectly at HPR.

[rforsythe]

Interesting that Dave trained with McBain. Dave however has a degree in mechanical engineering, so when he says "I'm changing this because it will have this complex relationship on the movement of your bike", I believe him because I can actually see the virtual parts moving in his head while he envisions the ramifications. Marcus never quite gave me that level of confidence, just a lot of assurances that he probably knew what he was doing.

[Ezzzzy1]

Even making sure your bike is set to the "stock" settings is important, a lot of used bikes have been messed with. A lot of people think that lowering the rear spring is the way to lower the bike...

[bornwildnfree]

Wait...lowering the rear spring isn't the way to go to lower the bike? ;-) Couldn't resist...ahh the joys of being short. On a plus note, my little hands make everything look big.

[UglyDogRacing]

I had the "bass boat" set up by Ricky Orlando's mechanic at RMK. I was surprised how plush it seemed compared to my street bike. Yet it works perfectly at HPR.

Marv definately knows what he is doing. You need your suspension to move through most it's stroke, especially on the race track. Sag measurements aren't much different for street and track. Most street bikes are way too stiff in the rear and too soft in the front.


Interesting that Dave trained with McBain. Dave however has a degree in mechanical engineering, so when he says "I'm changing this because it will have this complex relationship on the movement of your bike", I believe him because I can actually see the virtual parts moving in his head while he envisions the ramifications. Marcus never quite gave me that level of confidence, just a lot of assurances that he probably knew what he was doing.

He would just put his foot on your peg, bounce your bike a few times and tell you that you were all set.

[Clovis]

On a plus note, my little hands make everything look big.

HAHAHAHAHA :eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows::eyebrows: :eyebrows::eyebrows:

[UglyDogRacing]

Wait...lowering the rear spring isn't the way to go to lower the bike? ;-) Couldn't resist...ahh the joys of being short. On a plus note, my little hands make everything look big.

how do you lower the rear spring?

[Sean]

Damn, I missed all the drama. That's what I get for going to motorcycle shops. :( Now it's just boring suspension talk. Reminds me, I need to tweak the 950...

[Ghost]

On a plus note, my little hands make everything look big.

Rofl, thread wining post!

[Clovis]

Has anyone recommended Dave at STM suspension?

Is he in Denver? Is there anyone in Colorado Springs?

[rybo]

Is he in Denver? Is there anyone in Colorado Springs?

He's up in Fort Collins

I'm not sure who does this kind of work in the springs.

[Sean]

Has anyone recommended Dave at STM suspension?Doesn't ring a bell. :think:


Wait, is he the guy that's been at every trackday I've ever been to, constantly brought up in every suspension thread, partial to a goatee and changed my flat tire at midnight...yeah, maybe I've heard that name before.

[Mel]

He's up in Fort Collins

I'm not sure who does this kind of work in the springs.

He still up on Ft. Collins? I thought that he was in Parker or something like that after returning from his hiatus in like CA...or I might be mixing him up with someone else.


But, like Sean said, he's at every trackday out there, mentioned as THE guy in the suspension threads, and an all around awesome person (plus his goatee is hot ;))

[rforsythe]

how do you lower the rear spring?

Crash like Bob did. He broke the shock spring clean outta the bike. Lowered that R6 like an Impala on hydraulics. :shock:

[UglyDogRacing]

Crash like Bob did. He broke the shock spring clean outta the bike. Lowered that R6 like an Impala on hydraulics. :shock:

i think his nose has always been lower since he took flight that day.

[Sean]

And for all of the newer riders who haven't had the pleasure of meeting him yet.
http://www.stmsuspension.com/

btw: he very affordable, extremely knowledgeable and nice. Even ADV guys like him. link (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15958331&postcount=13)




So what did this thread conclude, Vellos for Mod?

[Ghost]

(plus his goatee is hot ;))

Is that still technically a goatee?


Crash like Bob did. He broke the shock spring clean outta the bike. Lowered that R6 like an Impala on hydraulics. :shock:

Lol, that was an ugly crash, and not the best way to tweak your suspension...

[MetaLord 9]

Goddamn I love the CSC. You can't even make this shit up.

Regarding the actual topic at hand, you're getting free advice from someone on the internet. There's a damned good chance you'll get what you paid for.

meow.

[Sean]

Goddamn I love the CSC. You can't even make this shit up.
:spit:

[InlineSIX24]

Lol, that was an ugly crash, and not the best way to tweak your suspension...
But possibly the quickest..

[rforsythe]

But possibly the quickest..

Yeah, once you find all the pieces...

[Spiderman]

Yeah, once you find all the pieces...

They found the spring... I still have it!

[Ghost]

They found the spring... I still have it!

I'm not sure I want to know where they found it...

[Spooph]

ah, and so it comes full circle. How 'bout next time these conversations can run in the heads of those suffering from keyboard-thuggary instead of spilling out onto the rest of our eyes... sheesh...

[Ghost]

ah, and so it comes full circle. How 'bout next time these conversations can run in the heads of those suffering from keyboard-thuggary instead of spilling out onto the rest of our eyes... sheesh...

Wouldn't be CSC...

And, for your eyes, might I suggest:

http://www.magic.org/store/images/MiracleBlindfold.jpg

[Bueller]

Freedom of speech goes all ways, people have the right to publicly humiliate themselves and everyone else has the option of not reading it.

[Spooph]

Ghost, your such a troll... :P

[Ghost]

Ghost, your such a troll... :P

Lol, boredom creates monsters. ;)

[Devaclis]

Lots of people have very tender asses. You have to poke them gently. The CSC operates on Delta Waves.

[Keyser Soze]

Lots of people have very tender asses. You have to poke them gently. The CSC operates on Delta Waves.

Lotta estrogen flowing through this place. You really have 19k posts, Dana? Or did a mod fuck with that number?

[~Barn~]

Dana's number is legit. He lost a few during The Great Server Refresh of 2010, but no more or less than anybody else. Granted 11,000 of those posts were cat pictures, but hey.... Scoreboard is Scoreboard. =)

[Devaclis]

I lost 7,900 during the server crash. Who cares. My dick is still smaller.

[Keyser Soze]

I still think we should bring back the stat section. Some interesting postwhoring back in those days. Pics and video section was rockin back in the day!

[Devaclis]

I want the OLD chat room back lol. That is where I met most of my current CSC buds. The new one is not bad, the old one just had a seedy, dirty feeling to it. Like a legal whorehouse.

[Ghost]

I want the OLD chat room back lol. That is where I met most of my current CSC buds. The new one is not bad, the old one just had a seedy, dirty feeling to it. Like a legal whorehouse.


A/S/L?

Are you hot?

[Devaclis]

18/F/FL = Bertha

[modette99]

Conversation was always more like
ASL?
18/F/OH Athletic
What do you weight?
180lbs
How tall are you?
5'2"
So your fat but somehow athletic, am I getting that right!!!
asshole

[Devaclis]

bloodninja: Baby, I been havin a tough night so treat me nice aight?

BritneySpears14: Aight.

bloodninja: Slip out of those pants baby, yeah.

BritneySpears14: I slip out of my pants, just for you, bloodninja.

bloodninja: Oh yeah, aight. Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat.

BritneySpears14: Oh, I like to play dress up.

bloodninja: Me too baby.

BritneySpears14: I kiss you softly on your chest.

bloodninja: I cast Lvl. 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman.

BritneySpears14: Hey...

bloodninja: I meditate to regain my mana, before casting Lvl. 8 Cock of the Infinite.

BritneySpears14: Funny I still don't see it.

bloodninja: I spend my mana reserves to cast Mighty F*ck of the Beyondness.

BritneySpears14: You are the worst cyber partner ever. This is ridiculous.

bloodninja: Don't f*ck with me bitch, I'm the mightiest sorcerer of the lands.

bloodninja: I steal yo soul and cast Lightning Lvl. 1,000,000 Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a Lvl. 2 Druid.

BritneySpears14: Don't ever message me again you piece of ****.

bloodninja: Robots are trying to drill my brain but my lightning shield inflicts DOA attack, leaving the robots as flaming piles of metal.

bloodninja: King Arthur congratulates me for destroying Dr. Robotnik's evil army of Robot Socialist Republics. The cold war ends. Reagan steals my accomplishments and makes like it was cause of him.

bloodninja: You still there baby? I think it's getting hard now.

bloodninja: Baby?

[rforsythe]

:spit:

Bloodninja ftw.

[grim]

WTF did i just read....:wtf: i want more :lol:

[Devaclis]

WTF did i just read....:wtf: i want more :lol:

bloodninja: Ok baby, we got to hurry, I don't know how long I can keep it ready for you.

j_gurli3: thats ok. ok i'm a japanese schoolgirl, what r u.

bloodninja: A Rhinocerus. Well, hung like one, thats for sure.

j_gurli3: haha, ok lets go.

j_gurli3: i put my hand through ur hair, and kiss u on the neck.

bloodninja: I stomp the ground, and snort, to alert you that you are in my breeding territory.

j_gurli3: haha, ok, u know that turns me on.

j_gurli3: i start unbuttoning ur shirt.

bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't wear shirts.

j_gurli3: No, ur not really a Rhinocerus silly, it's just part of the game.

bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge your ass.

j_gurli3: stop, cmon be serious.

bloodninja: It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass.

bloodninja: I stomp my feet, the dust stirs around my tough skinned feet.

j_gurli3: thats it.

bloodninja: Nostrils flaring, I lower my head. My horn, like some phallic symbol of my potent virility, is the last thing you see as skulls collide and mine remains the victor. You are now a bloody red ragdoll suspended in the air on my mighty horn.

bloodninja: Goddam am I hard now.

[Devaclis]

BritneySpears14: Ok, are you ready?

eminemBNJA: Aight, yeah I'm ready.

BritneySpears14: I like your music Em... Tee hee.

eminemBNJA: huh huh, yeah, I make it for the ladies.

BritneySpears14: Mmm, we like it a lot. Let me show you.

BritneySpears14: I take off your pants, slowly, and massage your muscular physique.

eminemBNJA: Oh I like that Baby. I put on my robe and wizard hat.

BritneySpears14: What the f*ck, I told you not to message me again.

eminemBNJA: Oh ****

BritneySpears14: I swear if you do it one more time I'm gonna report your ISP and say you were sending me kiddie porn you f*ck up.

eminemBNJA: Oh ****

eminemBNJA: damn I gotta write down your names or something

[grim]

bloodninja: Ok baby, we got to hurry, I don't know how long I can keep it ready for you.

j_gurli3: thats ok. ok i'm a japanese schoolgirl, what r u.

bloodninja: A Rhinocerus. Well, hung like one, thats for sure.

j_gurli3: haha, ok lets go.

j_gurli3: i put my hand through ur hair, and kiss u on the neck.

bloodninja: I stomp the ground, and snort, to alert you that you are in my breeding territory.

j_gurli3: haha, ok, u know that turns me on.

j_gurli3: i start unbuttoning ur shirt.

bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't wear shirts.

j_gurli3: No, ur not really a Rhinocerus silly, it's just part of the game.

bloodninja: Rhinoceruses don't play games. They f*cking charge your ass.

j_gurli3: stop, cmon be serious.

bloodninja: It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass.

bloodninja: I stomp my feet, the dust stirs around my tough skinned feet.

j_gurli3: thats it.

bloodninja: Nostrils flaring, I lower my head. My horn, like some phallic symbol of my potent virility, is the last thing you see as skulls collide and mine remains the victor. You are now a bloody red ragdoll suspended in the air on my mighty horn.

bloodninja: Goddam am I hard now.




:lol: :lol: this thread is so fucking epic now!!!

[grim]

BritneySpears14: Ok, are you ready?

eminemBNJA: Aight, yeah I'm ready.

BritneySpears14: I like your music Em... Tee hee.

eminemBNJA: huh huh, yeah, I make it for the ladies.

BritneySpears14: Mmm, we like it a lot. Let me show you.

BritneySpears14: I take off your pants, slowly, and massage your muscular physique.

eminemBNJA: Oh I like that Baby. I put on my robe and wizard hat.

BritneySpears14: What the f*ck, I told you not to message me again.

eminemBNJA: Oh ****

BritneySpears14: I swear if you do it one more time I'm gonna report your ISP and say you were sending me kiddie porn you f*ck up.

eminemBNJA: Oh ****

eminemBNJA: damn I gotta write down your names or something



MOAR FUNNIEZ

[~Barn~]

The CSC
We Recycle
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs42/i/2009/127/6/9/Recycle_Logo_by_Har1.png

[Devaclis]

I bring back the same shit every year :)

[Ezzzzy1]

Probably one of the funnier things around these pages... Love it

[Devaclis]

60% of the time, I repost every time.

[grim]

Pure genius work right there that's some funny shit!!

[grim]

please tell me there's more of this Internet action somewhere?