PDA

View Full Version : School me on trail bikes



vort3xr6
Sun Oct 30th, 2011, 08:30 PM
I decided I want to get a trail bike for next summer. I had a lot of fun ripping the DRZ around Rampart even though I was on sumo race slicks. Not to mention the work out is great too.

I am leaning towards a 2 stroke 250 Japanese MX for reliability and initial cost.

Should I be looking at a 4 stroke? Plated?

What else makes a good trail bike?

Bueller
Sun Oct 30th, 2011, 09:03 PM
Look this thread over,
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42689

I am not going to type out all the pros and cons of the different bikes, I'll let the others insert their opinions and then we can discuss it further next time we see each other. Don't be in a hurry to pick one up, you have a lot of winter to look. Christmas time is the best for deals.

vort3xr6
Sun Oct 30th, 2011, 09:12 PM
Good deal. And for reference, I am not looking for a "beginner" bike.

Zach929rr
Sun Oct 30th, 2011, 09:27 PM
I am not looking for a "beginner" bike.

CBR1K with knobbies and risers

vort3xr6
Sun Oct 30th, 2011, 09:30 PM
CBR1K with knobbies and risers

87 Goldwing with trailer at Rampart.

asp_125
Sun Oct 30th, 2011, 10:29 PM
Harley with knobbies.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4224/headerhka.jpg

Sean
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 07:01 AM
Here's a good deal on one. Should be able to get around Rampart pretty well. Link (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714652)

Bueller
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 07:07 AM
Harley with knobbies.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4224/headerhka.jpg
Harley's are the original bikes that started Rampart trail system.

Good deal. And for reference, I am not looking for a "beginner" bike.
A lot of new riders buy 2 stroke mx bikes because they are cheap. Most experianced riders end up on trail oriented 4 strokes. Rampart is a fairly easy system and can be ridden for the most part on mx bikes 2 & 4 strokes. Some of the other trails in Colorado aren't quite so easy.

modette99
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 07:42 AM
There is a group of us that seems to do really good on the XR650R's *shrug* Lots of torque, has a great top speed for the interstate for when you HAVE to get on it.

If you like dropping your bike, it is a pig to pickup especially when its upside down (had to pick mine up yesterday like that). But who cares its still a blast, and the looks I get when I have a full 6.3 Gallon tank and hit Captain Jacks is great.

Sean
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 07:59 AM
Not to change the point of the thread, but why not just get an extra set of tires with knobbies for your DRZ and swap them out when you want to hit the trails? The DRZ is a little heavy, but more than capable on a lot of trails. If you feel the need to drop some cash, take it up to Sisneros Speedworks and get some more hp.

I don't really have much to offer in the way of 2 stroke knowledge, but I have ridden a KTM 450/250 EXC a bit and love it. The 450 is light and has balls to boot. Downside is the maint associated with KTM's. Worth it, in my opinion.

vort3xr6
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 09:26 AM
Not to change the point of the thread, but why not just get an extra set of tires with knobbies for your DRZ and swap them out when you want to hit the trails? The DRZ is a little heavy, but more than capable on a lot of trails. If you feel the need to drop some cash, take it up to Sisneros Speedworks and get some more hp.

I don't really have much to offer in the way of 2 stroke knowledge, but I have ridden a KTM 450/250 EXC a bit and love it. The 450 is light and has balls to boot. Downside is the maint associated with KTM's. Worth it, in my opinion.


I thought about doing that, but I would much rather have a dedicated machine for trails. 1. the DRZ is a pig, and 2. The DRZ suspension is really not meant for trails.

I do want something light so I am not dead by hour 1. I also want something more reliable than your modern 4 stroke MX. Oil change every 5 hours, valve check every 20 hours, etc etc. Rebuilding a 4 stroke MX is about 1500 with parts and labor, only 500 for the 2 stroke equivalent.

Plus with a flywheel weight, you can make the 2 stroke a very capable slow climber for trails.

Bueller
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 09:52 AM
Any mx bike does not have good trail suspension.
Dean has been riding his WR for years without anything but oil changes.

TinkerinWstuff
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 09:56 AM
sounds like he already knows all there is to know on trail bikes

Ricky
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 10:28 AM
I thought about doing that, but I would much rather have a dedicated machine for trails. 1. the DRZ is a pig, and 2. The DRZ suspension is really not meant for trails.

I do want something light so I am not dead by hour 1. I also want something more reliable than your modern 4 stroke MX. Oil change every 5 hours, valve check every 20 hours, etc etc. Rebuilding a 4 stroke MX is about 1500 with parts and labor, only 500 for the 2 stroke equivalent.

Plus with a flywheel weight, you can make the 2 stroke a very capable slow climber for trails.

Yes, DRZ is a piggy pig pig.

I've ridden the shit out of my WR, and have had zero issues. I don't think it's ever been rebuilt. I sure haven't done oil changes every 5 hours either. Yamaha recommends an oil change every 3k miles, and 26k for valve checks on the newer WR's. A Trail bike is not like an MX bike, where for those 5 hours, it's having the living fuck beat out of it around a track.

The biggest thing is gearing. If it's not geared for the trail, it'll suck ass. Especially in a 2 stroker. I'd also much rather have a 4 stroke on the trails for going down the steep stuff and using the compression.

asp_125
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 10:40 AM
I didn't want a "beginner" trail bike either... so I took my F650GS Beemer pig off the dirt roads and into trails. Try wrestling a 423lb (wet not incl gear) big dual sport on a trail full of baby heads or larger rocks, with roots and trees. After the third drop I said enough. The 250KLX isn't as fast as the WR250 but works great on steep singletracks and sidehills and is SOOO much lighter to pick up.

vort3xr6
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 11:49 AM
Are the WR's better for trail riding than a YZ?

Ricky
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 11:56 AM
Are the WR's better for trail riding than a YZ?

They are TRAIL BIKES with the heart of a YZ. They will go up everything a DRZ won't :p

I love my WR so much, I'm going to wait for the 2012 WR450 with FI, and trade up to that. the 450 is only 11 pounds heavier than the 250, and almost exactly the same dimensions. Everything is within 1/10 of an inch, or exactly the same, in comparison.

Bueller
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 12:27 PM
Suspension, transmission, cams (power delivery) and final gearing are all different and tailor made for trail riding. Not to mention the lighting coil and wiring harness for lighting. And yes you will regret it if you don't get a titled bike.

TinkerinWstuff
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 12:42 PM
I thought 'one size fits all' with suspension. Shouldn't matter whether you're jumping water bars as a 6' 200lb American dude or riding county roads as dude's 5' skinny wife.

brennahm
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 01:38 PM
^This guy drunk?

Brad, either get a KDX or Matty's bike, WR250R.

UglyDogRacing
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 01:47 PM
Are the WR's better for trail riding than a YZ?

I've been on my WR450 for over a year now after spending the last 10 years on YZ's and I would never going back to a motocross bike for trail riding.

TinkerinWstuff
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 01:52 PM
^This guy drunk?

Brad, either get a KDX or Matty's bike, WR250R.

I wish.

I guess sarcasm isn't working today

vort3xr6
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 02:21 PM
^This guy drunk?

Brad, either get a KDX or Matty's bike, WR250R.

I don't want another sumo, I want a dedicated trail bike.

UglyDogRacing
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 02:35 PM
I don't want another sumo, I want a dedicated trail bike.


http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2660218920.html

brennahm
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 02:42 PM
Matty converted his to sumo, the WR250X is the sumo, the R is the trail bike.

vort3xr6
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 02:47 PM
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2660218920.html

I would break that thing in 2 seconds. Looking to spend about 2,000 around January for one.

TinkerinWstuff
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 02:51 PM
http://www.tricitycycle.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=02825434X10K31K2011J3I4 9I53JPMQ2871R0&veh=133336&pov=2071321

or this http://www.tricitycycle.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=02825434X10K31K2011J3I4 9I53JPMQ2871R0&veh=8087&pov=2381499

or better
http://www.tricitycycle.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=02825434X10K31K2011J3I4 9I53JPMQ2871R0&veh=13231&pov=2381647

vort3xr6
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 03:00 PM
bomb. I was looking at the crf250x's. those things look awesome!

TFOGGuys
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 03:19 PM
I ride a WR250F that the previous owner plated. Vastly more capable than my skills will allow me to explore, only wants for power in deep sand in 5th and 6th gears. CRFXs are cammed and ported just like CRFRs, and are intended as off road competition bikes, so tend to be a little peakier in their power delivery and more maintenance intensive. Honda CRFs with titanium intake valves have a reputation for rapid valve wear, and this is NOT a cheap issue to solve or repair.

Bueller
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 03:26 PM
Here ya go! If this don't get cha where you wanna go in a hurry, nuthin' will :D

http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2673717003.html

Here is a 2T I would be fond of
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2667026429.html

DucWise
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 03:45 PM
FWIW

I rode a WR-F for a couple of years and have ridden CRF-X's a bit too. I went over to a KTM 300 at the end of last year and will never go back. It "feels" 50lbs lighter and goes like a bat out of hell. But really has pretty mild manners. Better suspension, brakes, misc components... imo. For trails, woods, desert or general xc the 300 is absolutely fabulous. :D

Good luck!

Zach929rr
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 03:47 PM
Here ya go! If this don't get cha where you wanna go in a hurry, nuthin' will :D

http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2673717003.html

Here is a 2T I would be fond of
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2667026429.html

Sweet mother of cheap bikes.

Stop tempting.

Dr. Joe Siphek
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 04:10 PM
the DRZ will go anywhere theses fools are talkin about. I LOVE MINE! It's not the bike, it's the rider.

Bueller
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 04:17 PM
A DRZ "E" is a good trail bike, I have seen guys ride the piss out of them.

vort3xr6
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 06:17 PM
If I can just put dirt wheels on the current DRZ and have it be close to an E model, than what is the point of getting another bike?

I could always try an MX track out but I have not always been successful flying in the air. Usually that means something has gone drastically wrong.

Bueller
Mon Oct 31st, 2011, 07:36 PM
The DRZ-SM is basically an "S" model which is street orientated where the "E" is trail.
I bought my KTM 300 as a trail bike when I had the 525 as a street supermoto because I got really tired of changing wheels back and forth. I had a YZ450F as a race bike (supermoto) and while it was fun as hell at Rampart and on the MX track it was a horrible technical trail bike. You have to decide what you want to do for the most part and get a bike that is set up for that. You can use it for other purposes but it will be a compromise. I don't own a DRZ anymore because it did not do what I wanted my bike(s) to do very well. If you but something that is not designed for what you want, you will spend $ on it to make it into what you want, I figure it is best to start with the bike that is specialized to your need to start with.

Ricky
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 08:19 AM
Matty converted his to sumo, the WR250X is the sumo, the R is the trail bike.

Not quite... The WR250F is the straight trail bike. The X is supermoto, and the R is the dual-purpose. In the 450, they only make the F.

TFOGGuys
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 08:29 AM
Not quite... The WR250F is the straight trail bike. The X is supermoto, and the R is the dual-purpose. In the 450, they only make the F.

In addition, the R and X models of the 250 are fuel injected with a 4 valve cylinder head, while the 250F has the 5 valve head and a 37mm FCR carb. there are some differences in the bottom end of the engines as well. The big difference between the R and the F is suspension, the R has about 10ish inches of travel, the F has about 14.

brennahm
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 08:55 AM
Not quite... The WR250F is the straight trail bike. The X is supermoto, and the R is the dual-purpose. In the 450, they only make the F.

True, but the R is also less maintenance intensive. That would be my choice, plus it's already titled, wasn't sure if the F is.

Zach929rr
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 08:59 AM
I personally would enjoy seeing him pop more drz tires at Rampart.

Ricky
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 08:59 AM
True, but the R is also less maintenance intensive. That would be my choice, plus it's already titled, wasn't sure if the F is.

Yeah, F is titled and plated! I love being able to ride anywhere!

DriverDave
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 04:23 PM
I've had many trail bikes over the years, and none of them were as good as my current one...2004 Kawi KLX300. Same model from 97 to 07 so there are tons of them out there. Water cooled, discs, inverted forks, light weight, great torque, and you can neglect the hell out of it and it keeps on running! Best trail bike ever made (IMO). If you're really bent on a 2-stroke, the KDX200/220 is almost identical to the KLX.

Here's a vid of me riding with my friend (he's on a KDX200) on some tough singletrack: http://contour.com/stories/donner-passgnarly-single-track-1
Unfortunately, Contour's website and player sucks ass, but it gives you a pretty good idea of what a KLX can tackle.

vort3xr6
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 08:16 PM
That video kicks so much ASS! I can't wait to do that.

Bueller
Tue Nov 1st, 2011, 08:54 PM
Here is some Taylor Park action on the 525
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhoyushZa68

And this is Camp Hale on the 2 stroke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AIe_M6Gs2o

DucWise
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 07:57 AM
Not to get into any kind of orange vs. green shenanigans... :D

But... there's a surprising amount of decent riding here in the winter months as well... if you know where to go :scatter:

Since we're doing some vids, the 300 at PPIR (off-road) in the 'cool months' :

http://youtu.be/7M_j6DMlveg

http://youtu.be/-MbEyBiO6Ew

Bueller
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 08:31 AM
Second vid is blocked for copyright issues.
That actually looks like a pretty good area, I was envisioning something like the PMI riding area. I might have to hit that up this winter. I see the course markers, is that setup for a race or always laid out like that?

DucWise
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 08:38 AM
Second vid is blocked for copyright issues.
That actually looks like a pretty good area, I was envisioning something like the PMI riding area. I might have to hit that up this winter. I see the course markers, is that setup for a race or always laid out like that?

Hmmm... I guess the music selection is causing that :( Here's another that may or may not work... just to see more of the course:

http://youtu.be/S6lolIDBzMo

There is a general layout and it's typically always run in ONE DIRECTION. They have races there from time to time and change the course slightly every now and then. It's a $10 day fee as well. But it's a good tight course, very low crowds (if any), and the single direction is a HUGE plus as well.

Enjoy!

Bueller
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 08:44 AM
That is cool, I like the uni-directional layout. Where is it exactly, I am assuming real close to the track?
BTW nice choice on bikes, I am on my 4th, 1-250 and 3-300's.

vort3xr6
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 08:59 AM
Great vids. I really like that KLX 300. Gonna keep an eye on them over the winter.

DucWise
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 10:58 AM
That is cool, I like the uni-directional layout. Where is it exactly, I am assuming real close to the track?
BTW nice choice on bikes, I am on my 4th, 1-250 and 3-300's.

It's located directly across I-25 from the PPIR road course/track. Here's some directions and a map image (if the link works):

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/viewarea.php?t=604413

There are also rarely any quads here as a lot of the course is VERY tight. It's a good alternative to the usual "winter" spots like PMI and the 'tracks'. Penrose is usually dry and warm as well (if you like rocks :) ) and of course TX Creek & Left Hand have thier good winter days too.

Ride on!

swademaster
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 04:18 PM
I am really liking my KLX300 I got this summer. I didn't get as much trail time on it yet as a I wanted to, but it seems to do whatever I need it too. For $900, the price was right too.

Sean
Wed Nov 2nd, 2011, 05:41 PM
On second thought, there are a few KLX300's on CL right now. For that kind of cash, I would much rather ride that than a DRZ on the dirt. Soooooo light and nimble!

This thread makes me want to go riding...

OUTLAWD
Thu Nov 3rd, 2011, 06:25 PM
between this and my roomate looking at Sumos...I am getting the itch

FZRguy
Fri Nov 4th, 2011, 12:54 AM
If I had a spare $8k, I'd buy a Husky TE310. Since I don't, gonna put knobs back on the ring ding and a more dirt oriented tire on my DRZ....E model!