$85 CSC concealed carry class Dec 17th in Greenwood Villiage

[stitch]

Among my many talents is I am a NRA instructor. I am thinking of putting together a concealed carry class for Dec. I was thinking $85 for a 3.5 hour class for CSC members. Gets you all you need for the concealed carry in Colorado. Any interest from the club? This will qualify you for not only the Colorado permit but also Florida and Wyoming.


The class will be held Saturday Dec 17th from 1pm -4:30pm at the Courtyard by Marriot 6565 South Boston Street Greenwood Village, CO 80111.


I'll need everyone who wants to attend to send me a PM with their real name, email and phone number. I will email you more information about the class and what the requirements are later this week.

[rfranks303]

I'd be up for that, may bring the wife too. What part of december are you thinkin

[stitch]

Not sure. I could open it up to a poll. I am teaching a basic pistol course on the 10th and 11th. So either the 3rd, 17th or 31st.

[rfranks303]

Ok I'm in, unless I loose my job before then but I should know this week.

[Sarge]

I'm exempt, but I wouldn't mind getting the wife in. Let me know if this goes through, I might just show up anyway. ;)

*edit*

On that note, if this were to go down could I attend and just not receive a certificate or whatever? Since I'm Active Duty Military I don't need this class to get my permit, but I'd like to be there with my wife during the thing. We have several pistols we could bring along, and of course bring out own ammo.

[stitch]

Ok I'm in, unless I loose my job before then but I should know this week.

Ouch! Hang in there man. I was just in those shoes.

[grim]

I am in!!

[stitch]

I'm exempt, but I wouldn't mind getting the wife in. Let me know if this goes through, I might just show up anyway. ;)

Exempt? What do you mean you are exempt?

[3D]

I'd be interested. Where would this be held if you did put it on?

[stitch]

I'd be interested. Where would this be held if you did put it on?

I'll have to figure out where sometime this week. Probably at a hotel conf room in Greenwood Village or something. That's where I did the last one. Depends on how many are interested in doing this.

[Sarge]

Exempt? What do you mean you are exempt?

Active Duty Military, all I need is an ID card and my PCS orders to Colorado.

I edited my original post with another question as well.

[stitch]

Active Duty Military, all I need is an ID card and my PCS orders to Colorado.

I edited my original post with another question as well.

Ah. I remember those days. $40 for my fellow vets (Must provide proof of service). Would be free but I gotta cover my costs.

[Sarge]

Q: What type of firearms training is required?
... All documentation must have been obtained within the 10 years preceding submittal of the application. It may be in the following forms:
...
Current Military orders or proof of honorable discharge from a branch of the United States Armed Forces reflecting handgun qualifications.


Source: http://shr.elpasoco.com/Support+Services+Bureau/Concealed+Handgun+Permit.htm

[grim]

Active Duty Military, all I need is an ID card and my PCS orders to Colorado.

I edited my original post with another question as well.

You may want to verify that unless you are an active duty MP I don't think this is true. I was never told I was able to do so when I was active duty and there were classes you had to take to get a concealed weapons permit just for on base.

[stitch]

On that note, if this were to go down could I attend and just not receive a certificate or whatever? Since I'm Active Duty Military I don't need this class to get my permit, but I'd like to be there with my wife during the thing. We have several pistols we could bring along, and of course bring out own ammo.

This is class room only. We will not be using any real guns nor doing any shooting. This only covers the laws in Colorado and discussion around situations where CCW will be required. This is not a basic handgun course.

I am teaching a basic handgun class December 10th and 11th that will include live fire if anyone is interested. CSC price is $100. This class would also provide you with what you would need to apply for CCW in Colorado but includes begining handgun. Class is in Parker and live fire will be at Shootist in Greenwood Village.

[Sarge]

You may want to verify that unless you are an active duty MP I don't think this is true. I was never told I was able to do so when I was active duty and there were classes you had to take to get a concealed weapons permit just for on base.

See my post above, I provided a link to the El Paso County website with the details, and I've previously researched this and seen the exact same thing said at the State level. All you need is a DA Form 88 for the M9, but I have other Soldiers in my unit who have used the DA 3595-R and even the 5790-R without any issues.

[Sarge]

This is class room only. We will not be using any real guns nor doing any shooting. This only covers the laws in Colorado and discussion around situations where CCW will be required. This is not a basic handgun course.

I am teaching a basic handgun class December 10th and 11th that will include live fire if anyone is interested. CSC price is $100. This class would also provide you with what you would need to apply for CCW in Colorado but includes begining handgun. Class is in Parker and live fire will be at Shootist in Greenwood Village.

Wait, will this $85, 3.5 hour course you're talking about qualify for a CCP? I'm trying to get the wife in so she can get hers, and this is considerably cheaper and shorter than most commercial offerings.

Also, in response to your Vet discount, I don't actually want to take the course, or receive a certificate or whatever, I would just like to attend (with your permission) along with my wife, but not actually participate in the class. My MSF instructor in the State of Nevada allowed something like this, basically the family member(s) just sat in the back and participated in some of the discussions, which is all I would like to do.

[stitch]

You may want to verify that unless you are an active duty MP I don't think this is true. I was never told I was able to do so when I was active duty and there were classes you had to take to get a concealed weapons permit just for on base.

Sarge is right. C.R.S 18-12-203


A person, who is a member of the Armed Forces and is stationed pursuant to permanent duty station orders at a military installation in this state, and a member of the person’s immediate family living in Colorado, shall be deemed to be a legal resident of the State of Colorado.


Demonstrates competence with a handgun by submitting:
1. evidence of experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting
competitions or current military service,

My first CCW I got by just submitting my DD214. Sarge can do the same thing.

BUT.....

That means he misses out on some very important training on the acceptable use of concealed carry in Colorado. Unless he comes to the class.

[stitch]

Wait, will this $85, 3.5 hour course you're talking about qualify for a CCP? I'm trying to get the wife in so she can get hers, and this is considerably cheaper and shorter than most commercial offerings.

Also, in response to your Vet discount, I don't actually want to take the course, or receive a certificate or whatever, I would just like to attend (with your permission) along with my wife, but not actually participate in the class. My MSF instructor in the State of Nevada allowed something like this, basically the family member(s) just sat in the back and participated in some of the discussions, which is all I would like to do.

Yes, this class meets the requirement for training to apply for Concealed Carry Handgun in Colorado. Either class will count. Colorado requires

"a training certificate from a “handgun training class” (see definitions) obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of the application. The applicant shall submit the original training certificate or a photocopy thereof that includes the original signature of the class instructor. In obtaining a training certificate from a handgun training class, the applicant shall have discretion in selecting which handgun training class to complete."


18-12-202.5 "HANDGUN TRAINING CLASS" MEANS:
(a) A LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINING FIREARMS SAFETY COURSE;
(b) A FIREARMS SAFETY COURSE OFFERED BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, AN INSTITUTION OR ORGANIZATION OR FIREARMS TRAINING SCHOOL, THAT IS OPEN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND IS TAUGHT BY A CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR; OR
(c) A FIREARMS SAFETY COURSE OR CLASS THAT IS OFFERED AND TAUGHT BY A CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR.

However the NRA does not allow me to teach CCW as part of the Basic Handgun class. I have to teach them seprate but both count for the permit.

You've got a PM though.

[Wrider]

I'm in as well. Been meaning to get mine, and that's a really good price.

EDIT: I'm free the 31st, never have plans. If on the 3rd or the 17th I'll have to see based on the time. Gotta sleep sometime before I head to work at 11 PM.

[rfranks303]

Ouch! Hang in there man. I was just in those shoes.

I'll land on my feet, I always do. I'm known for my luck, sunny disposition and good looks. Ok maybe just luck.

[Mother Goose]

I'd be up for that, as well as the GF. It'd be a good Christmas gift for the both of us. :D The 3rd could work, but we need to be up in Ft. Collins that evening, so as long as it's earlier, that'll work. The 17th as well, new years eve isn't a good time for us.

[Zach929rr]

I'm in on this as long as its on the 17th or 31st.

[Penadam]

In if I'm around. Could do the 3rd or 17th.

[tarbash29]

I'm in for the class, will probably bring the girlfriend and brother.

Can't do the 3rd though, 17th would probably be the best.

[Zanatos]

Recent military retiree here. I'm interested, and I have no life at the moment, so any day is good for me.

[50sGrl]

Might be interested as well, depending on date/time. The 3rd or 17th would probably work for me.

[rforsythe]

I am teaching a basic handgun class December 10th and 11th that will include live fire if anyone is interested. CSC price is $100. This class would also provide you with what you would need to apply for CCW in Colorado but includes begining handgun. Class is in Parker and live fire will be at Shootist in Greenwood Village.

That is a smoking deal for a true CCW w/ live-fire course. I'm contemplating taking you up on that, for only $15 more and you get range time (the time alone costs $15-20 at most places).

[Mother Goose]

I am teaching a basic handgun class December 10th and 11th that will include live fire if anyone is interested. CSC price is $100. This class would also provide you with what you would need to apply for CCW in Colorado but includes begining handgun. Class is in Parker and live fire will be at Shootist in Greenwood Village.
Just to clear this up.... is this $100 for both the class and the handgun training? Or would it be $185 for the class and the handgun training? Also, will the gun be provided at the live fire? Thanks.

[stitch]

Just to clear this up.... is this $100 for both the class and the handgun training? Or would it be $185 for the class and the handgun training? Also, will the gun be provided at the live fire? Thanks.

The CCW class has no live fire it is $85 for a 3.5 hour class. It will be held on the 17th of Dec from 1pm - 4:30pm. It only covers the requirements for the Colorado Concealed Handgun permit.

I am teaching a separate NRA basic handgun class on Dec 10th and 11th which does require live fire. It is an 8 hour class on basic handgun broken up over two days. You'll learn;
· Pistol knowlege and safe gun handling
· Ammunition Knowledge and Fundamentals of pistol shooting
· How to properly shoot (Stance, aiming, etc)
· Scoring targets and selecting and maintaining your pistol

There is a live fire component to this class. In order to pass the class you must fire a minimum of 20 shots. If need be I can provide a firearm.

This is a basic beginners class which is aimed at brand new shooters who might have never handled a gun before. Cost to CSC members is $100. Space is limited on this one as I have to order some training material for everyone who attends. It takes about a month for the material to arrive so I would need to know ASAP if you want to attend that class. I can take maybe 15 people for this class and I am at 11 right now. Saturday will be a 4 hour classroom session. Sunday will be another 4 hour session and then 2 hours on the range.

Both classes qualify for the Colorado Concealed Carry Permit.

[stitch]

I'll need everyone who wants to attend to send me a PM with their real name, email and phone number. I will email you more information about the class and what the requirements are later this week.

[stitch]

That is a smoking deal for a true CCW w/ live-fire course. I'm contemplating taking you up on that, for only $15 more and you get range time (the time alone costs $15-20 at most places).

Yep I reserve the whole range for the class. After we finish the required class I usually let everyone free fire in what ever time remains. I can then help students one on one with any issues. I've only got the range for 2 hours that day though.

[modette99]

I would but I just did one up in Denver on the 4th for $50 with the money going towards the Libertarian party. Guy was pretty nice too, gave us his email and will give people free hands on experience too just because he loves to shoot that much (he teaches cops).

Now i got to go see the Sheriff and pay $$$ for the permit.

[rforsythe]

Yep I reserve the whole range for the class. After we finish the required class I usually let everyone free fire in what ever time remains. I can then help students one on one with any issues. I've only got the range for 2 hours that day though.

Oh ok, so this doesn't sound like it's maybe as appropriate for someone like me with gun experience. Maybe I will just do the classroom one then, though I thought a CCW required some demonstration of range skill? Maybe not.

[modette99]

Oh ok, so this doesn't sound like it's maybe as appropriate for someone like me with gun experience. Maybe I will just do the classroom one then, though I thought a CCW required some demonstration of range skill? Maybe not.

Not in CO, all you need is classroom lecture, go over the laws and that is about it. Too bad range time is not REQUIRED, would make sense to me.

Everyone in the class that I took, pretty much does not own a gun, in fact I only shoot guns I don't even own a handgun, I do own a 1928 shotgun I inherited.

It is on the list to get...but no big hurry. I was surprised at the amount of women in the class. Still worth reading over the laws and what have you and ask questions, we had a lawyer there and he told us some things...which was handy to know how things really work if and when you need to shoot someone.

[Foolds]

No Disrespect to this class or to Stitch. But... The problem with a Rubber stamp CCW class with out some real fire arms training and instruction is you are steaking your life and the life of your loves ones on what you are being trained to do. Taking a Class on Law and Theory is like taking a MSF class with out ever touching a motorcycle

You Miss out on alot of training that most normal gun shooters never even think about but is important in personal protection training.

Things most people dont practice that is important in Denfense shootings are things such as, Rapid Jam Clearing, Malfunction Driils, Off Hand Draw and shoot, One handed reload, Proper Draw from Conceled, Firing while verbally Identifying(legal Protection) and much more..

Now I'm Not a trainer nor am I the God of CCW by any means but I just thought I should post about how more training is important then just the classroom part. In my mind a class where you don't shoot at least 200-300 rounds of ammo in a structured format is seriously lacking.

[Spooph]

PM sent

[stitch]

No Disrespect to this class or to Stitch. But... The problem with a Rubber stamp CCW class with out some real fire arms training and instruction is you are steaking your life and the life of your loves ones on what you are being trained to do. Taking a Class on Law and Theory is like taking a MSF class with out ever touching a motorcycle

You Miss out on alot of training that most normal gun shooters never even think about but is important in personal protection training.

Things most people dont practice that is important in Denfense shootings are things such as, Rapid Jam Clearing, Malfunction Driils, Off Hand Draw and shoot, One handed reload, Proper Draw from Conceled, Firing while verbally Identifying(legal Protection) and much more..

Now I'm Not a trainer nor am I the God of CCW by any means but I just thought I should post about how more training is important then just the classroom part. In my mind a class where you don't shoot at least 200-300 rounds of ammo in a structured format is seriously lacking.

I do all that in basic and advanced handgun training and more. This isn't for that type of training. Nor is this a rubber stamp class. This is specific to the rules/laws of concealed carry. It covers the laws required to carry a firearm concealed. This is not a class to learn how to shoot a gun. Most who take this class already have most of those skills. You want to learn to how to shoot a gun then take the basic or advanced classes I offered and mentioned in a number of earlier posts.

[MAZIN]

So call me a dick but 3.5 hrs? not a NRA class all basic pistol class' are 8 hrs. Also I would check the county that you live in because most want LIVE fire in the class. I would like to know if you are a LEO or have been, just wanting to know how you feel qualified to teach Your Own class and not stay with in the guidelines of the NRA Basic Pistol class outline. Also will you be giving out your certs or NRA certs, will your NRA Instructors Credentials be on the certs you hand out? Just a few questions....

[stitch]

Mazin,
The CCW class is not a NRA class. The basic pistol class is. The NRA does not offer CCW classes. Nor are NRA instructors allowed to present CCW classes as NRA. However MOST states require instructors to be a certified instructor.


18-12-202.2 "CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR"

MEANS AN INSTRUCTOR FOR A FIREARMS SAFETY COURSE

WHO IS CERTIFIED AS A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR BY:
(a) A COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, STATE OR FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY;
(b) THE PEACE OFFICER STANDARDS AND TRAINING BOARD CREATED IN SECTION 24-31-302, C.R.S.;
(c) A FEDERAL MILITARY AGENCY; OR
(d) A NATIONAL NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT CERTIFIES FIREARMS INSTRUCTORS, OPERATES NATIONAL FIREARMS COMPETITIONS, AND PROVIDES TRAINING, INCLUDING COURSES IN PERSONAL PROTECTION, IN SMALL ARMS SAFETY, USE, AND MARKSMANSHIP.

I am a certified NRA instructor and former military. Yes my NRA instructors certification number will be on certificates. It's required by the state.

No county in Colorado requires live fire for a CCW class. CCW requirements are defined by the state not county.

I think I was clear when I posted the following Mon Nov 7th, 2011, 06:16 PM


This is class room only. We will not be using any real guns nor doing any shooting. This only covers the laws in Colorado and discussion around situations where CCW will be required. This is not a basic handgun course.

I am teaching a basic handgun class December 10th and 11th that will include live fire if anyone is interested. CSC price is $100. This class would also provide you with what you would need to apply for CCW in Colorado but includes begining handgun. Class is in Parker and live fire will be at Shootist in Greenwood Village.

And again when I posted the following on Tue Nov 8th, 2011, 11:11 AM


The CCW class has no live fire it is $85 for a 3.5 hour class. It will be held on the 17th of Dec from 1pm - 4:30pm. It only covers the requirements for the Colorado Concealed Handgun permit.

I am teaching a separate NRA basic handgun class on Dec 10th and 11th which does require live fire. It is an 8 hour class on basic handgun broken up over two days. You'll learn;
· Pistol knowlege and safe gun handling
· Ammunition Knowledge and Fundamentals of pistol shooting
· How to properly shoot (Stance, aiming, etc)
· Scoring targets and selecting and maintaining your pistol

There is a live fire component to this class. In order to pass the class you must fire a minimum of 20 shots. If need be I can provide a firearm.

This is a basic beginners class which is aimed at brand new shooters who might have never handled a gun before. Cost to CSC members is $100. Space is limited on this one as I have to order some training material for everyone who attends. It takes about a month for the material to arrive so I would need to know ASAP if you want to attend that class. I can take maybe 15 people for this class and I am at 11 right now. Saturday will be a 4 hour classroom session. Sunday will be another 4 hour session and then 2 hours on the range.

Both classes qualify for the Colorado Concealed Carry Permit.

I suggest you go back and read this thread and you will find most of your questions were answered.

[MAZIN]

So this is not a NRA class but its "Covers" the states requirement to obtain a CCW. I appriciate you being ex military (thank you for your service) but since this will be a class about "CCW law" I just want to know if you are a lawer or play one on TV. Also to have a class advertising as a CCW class that just covers the law but no firearm applications is kind of ironic, you can take this class and get your CCW and know about the law but if you had to use a firearm in a defensive situation then that all instinct right?

I know about what the NRA offers and just didn't think a First Steps or a "CCW Law class", would meet anyones standards for obtaining a CCW since even the Basic Pistol is far from being a good insightful class for CCW.

Ok so Adams county Strongly reccomends Live fire, it is in the information packet at this link http://apps.adcogov.org/sheriff/chp/CHP_info_packet.pdf
its under training requirements and its #7. Also don't forget some countys require a copy of the Instructors creadentials in addition to the students class completion cert.

Anyone new to obtaining a CCW please please never stop getting good training! Just because you took a first steps, CCW Law or a Basic Pistol class don't think that will prepare you for a defensive situation.

[stitch]

So this is not a NRA class but its "Covers" the states requirement to obtain a CCW. I appriciate you being ex military (thank you for your service) but since this will be a class about "CCW law" I just want to know if you are a lawer or play one on TV. Also to have a class advertising as a CCW class that just covers the law but no firearm applications is kind of ironic, you can take this class and get your CCW and know about the law but if you had to use a firearm in a defensive situation then that all instinct right?

I know about what the NRA offers and just didn't think a First Steps or a "CCW Law class", would meet anyones standards for obtaining a CCW since even the Basic Pistol is far from being a good insightful class for CCW.

Ok so Adams county Strongly reccomends Live fire, it is in the information packet at this link http://apps.adcogov.org/sheriff/chp/CHP_info_packet.pdf
its under training requirements and its #7. Also don't forget some countys require a copy of the Instructors creadentials in addition to the students class completion cert.

Anyone new to obtaining a CCW please please never stop getting good training! Just because you took a first steps, CCW Law or a Basic Pistol class don't think that will prepare you for a defensive situation.

Mazin,
I get that you are a fire arms instructor and that you enjoy "Pissing people off!" But look, my CCW class is the same class that everyone else in Colorado offers. It covers the same things that everyone else who teaches this class does and meets the requirements of the state for CCW permit training. It is not a NRA class nor is it a first steps class. The CCW class is for experianced shooters NOT begineer shooters. You obviously believe you have a extensive back ground in firearms. Would you want to take a basic fire arms class? While Adams county Strongly reccomends Live fire, the operative word is "RECOMMENDS". It is not "REQUIRED".

As I said in my last post




I am a certified NRA instructor and former military. Yes my NRA instructors certification number will be on certificates. It's required by the state.




So since you clearly didn't read my post, you must be trolling to "Piss People Off" just for the drama. So do me a favor, go contact some of the other providers of CCW classes and tell them what you told me and see how far that gets you. Then go read a dictionary for the definitions of "required" and "recommend". Then when you have done all that. Go back under your bridge. Or hey if you think you can do better then go host your own class.

[grim]

Mazin,
I get that you are a fire arms instructor and that you enjoy "Pissing people off!" But look, my CCW class is the same class that everyone else in Colorado offers. It covers the same things that everyone else who teaches this class does and meets the requirements of the state for CCW permit training. It is not a NRA class nor is it a first steps class. The CCW class is for experianced shooters NOT begineer shooters. You obviously believe you have a extensive back ground in firearms. Would you want to take a basic fire arms class? While Adams county Strongly reccomends Live fire, the operative word is "RECOMMENDS". It is not "REQUIRED".

As I said in my last post
[/SIZE][/FONT]

So since you clearly didn't read my post, you must be trolling to "Piss People Off" just for the drama. So do me a favor, go contact some of the other providers of CCW classes and tell them what you told me and see how far that gets you. Then go read a dictionary for the definitions of "required" and "recommend". Then when you have done all that. Go back under your bridge. Or hey if you think you can do better then go host your own class.

I think i am going to like you as an instructor.

[Ezzzzy1]

Enough of this know it all shit... Stitch is trying to do something that (apparently) a lot of people on here are interested in. When I took mine 3 years ago it was $125 and did not have live fire. For the people that dont shoot often its a really good idea to take a class that offers that. For people that have carried in other states, with the military or law enforcement in the past the class without live fire is great. CCW has nothing to do with NRA unless you are taking the class thats offered by them. This class is for information (that even seasoned gun owners/shooters can benefit from) and to fulfill the states requirements to CC. Its that simple.

[MAZIN]

Recent military retiree here. I'm interested, and I have no life at the moment, so any day is good for me.


Your good to go without any class just bring in your DD214 to your local sheriffs dept and apply for your ccw. Just wanted to let you know that incase you didn't know.

[MAZIN]

Mazin,
I get that you are a fire arms instructor and that you enjoy "Pissing people off!" But look, my CCW class is the same class that everyone else in Colorado offers. It covers the same things that everyone else who teaches this class does and meets the requirements of the state for CCW permit training. It is not a NRA class nor is it a first steps class. The CCW class is for experianced shooters NOT begineer shooters. You obviously believe you have a extensive back ground in firearms. Would you want to take a basic fire arms class? While Adams county Strongly reccomends Live fire, the operative word is "RECOMMENDS". It is not "REQUIRED".

As I said in my last post
[/SIZE][/FONT]

So since you clearly didn't read my post, you must be trolling to "Piss People Off" just for the drama. So do me a favor, go contact some of the other providers of CCW classes and tell them what you told me and see how far that gets you. Then go read a dictionary for the definitions of "required" and "recommend". Then when you have done all that. Go back under your bridge. Or hey if you think you can do better then go host your own class.



:scatter:I'm done, have fun with your class.

[MAZIN]

Enough of this know it all shit... Stitch is trying to do something that (apparently) a lot of people on here are interested in. When I took mine 3 years ago it was $125 and did not have live fire. For the people that dont shoot often its a really good idea to take a class that offers that. For people that have carried in other states, with the military or law enforcement in the past the class without live fire is great. CCW has nothing to do with NRA unless you are taking the class thats offered by them. This class is for information (that even seasoned gun owners/shooters can benefit from) and to fulfill the states requirements to CC. Its that simple.


Problem is that some NRA INS use thier credentials to teach their own class outside any guidelines that the NRA provides. Whats the problem with this? Well NRA Instructors are only suppose to teach NRA Classes using thier creadentials. Just stating fact.



Also shouldn't this be in the Wheels and Deals thread.....But now I'm just trolling LOL

[stitch]

Wow, Mazin. You're just bound and determined to cause any trouble you can. I must have fucked your boyfriend or something.

Pretty impressive how quickly you managed to go from


Anyone new to obtaining a CCW please please never stop getting good training! Just because you took a first steps, CCW Law or a Basic Pistol class don't think that will prepare you for a defensive situation.

To now saying


Your good to go without any class just bring in your DD214 to your local sheriffs dept and apply for your ccw. Just wanted to let you know that incase you didn't know.

It's been suggested by both Sarge and I already.

Sarge posted Mon Nov 7th, 2011, 06:08 PM

Active Duty Military, all I need is an ID card and my PCS orders to Colorado.

I posted Mon Nov 7th, 2011, 06:22 PM

Sarge is right. C.R.S 18-12-203
A person, who is a member of the Armed Forces and is stationed pursuant to permanent duty station orders at a military installation in this state, and a member of the person’s immediate family living in Colorado, shall be deemed to be a legal resident of the State of Colorado.
Demonstrates competence with a handgun by submitting:
1. evidence of experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting
competitions or current military service,

My first CCW I got by just submitting my DD214. Sarge can do the same thing.
BUT.....
That means he misses out on some very important training on the acceptable use of concealed carry in Colorado. Unless he comes to the class.


So really do I know you or something or did I just open your boyfriends ass too much so now you get no pleasure out of it?

[stitch]

Problem is that some NRA INS use thier credentials to teach their own class outside any guidelines that the NRA provides. Whats the problem with this? Well NRA Instructors are only suppose to teach NRA Classes using thier creadentials. Just stating fact.



NO...NRA instructors are only supposed to teach "NRA Classes" following NRA guidelines. I am free to teach anything else as long as I don't identify it as a NRA class. I am free to teach the CCW class and supported by the NRA when I do. I just can't say it is a NRA class, which it isn't.

However in order for the state to accept me teaching the CCW class I have to be CERTIFIED AS A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR BY one of the following;
(a) A COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, STATE OR FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY;
(b) THE PEACE OFFICER STANDARDS AND TRAINING BOARD CREATED IN SECTION 24-31-302, C.R.S.;
(c) A FEDERAL MILITARY AGENCY; OR
(d) A NATIONAL NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT CERTIFIES FIREARMS INSTRUCTORS, OPERATES NATIONAL FIREARMS COMPETITIONS, AND PROVIDES TRAINING, INCLUDING COURSES IN PERSONAL PROTECTION, IN SMALL ARMS SAFETY, USE, AND MARKSMANSHIP. (GEE...I wonder who they might be refering too here)

The NRA allows me to use my NRA instructors certificate to verify that I have met the requirements of being a certified NRA instructor to the state as long as I do not refer to any class that is not specificly a NRA class as a NRA class.

So if you really were a NRA instructor you would know that as it is very clear in the NRA's trainer's guide.

[wulf]

NO...NRA instructors are only supposed to teach "NRA Classes" following NRA guidelines. I am free to teach anything else as long as I don't identify it as a NRA class. I am free to teach the CCW class and supported by the NRA when I do. I just can't say it is a NRA class, which it isn't.

However in order for the state to accept me teaching the CCW class I have to be CERTIFIED AS A FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR BY one of the following;
(a) A COUNTY, MUNICIPAL, STATE OR FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY;
(b) THE PEACE OFFICER STANDARDS AND TRAINING BOARD CREATED IN SECTION 24-31-302, C.R.S.;
(c) A FEDERAL MILITARY AGENCY; OR
(d) A NATIONAL NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT CERTIFIES FIREARMS INSTRUCTORS, OPERATES NATIONAL FIREARMS COMPETITIONS, AND PROVIDES TRAINING, INCLUDING COURSES IN PERSONAL PROTECTION, IN SMALL ARMS SAFETY, USE, AND MARKSMANSHIP. (GEE...I wonder who they might be refering too here)

The NRA allows me to use my NRA instructors certificate to verify that I have met the requirements of being a certified NRA instructor to the state as long as I do not refer to any class that is not specificly a NRA class as a NRA class.

So if you really were a NRA instructor you would know that as it is very clear in the NRA's trainer's guide.
No need for the sarcasm, I'm an instructor too, we don't teach NRA basic pistol cause it sucks.

Quite often people only want a cheap lecture only class.

[MAZIN]

Wow didn't mean to hurt your feelings so much...calm down little fella :)


Possesion of this card carries a responsibility for representing the whole shooting fraternity to those whom you deal as well as to the community as a whole. Much of what people think of guns, shooting and shooters dendends on you. Good Luck!

[stitch]

Wow didn't mean to hurt your feelings so much...calm down little fella :)


Possesion of this card carries a responsibility for representing the whole shooting fraternity to those whom you deal as well as to the community as a whole. Much of what people think of guns, shooting and shooters dendends on you. Good Luck!

Really? You come to a public online forum and accuse me of things that could cause me to lose my NRA instruction certificate and get me in trouble with the local authorities. You make claims that you are a NRA firearms instructor but make statements that are clearly uninformed and factually incorrect based on written policy from the NRA that is disseminated to EVERY NRA Instructor. All in an attempt to discredit someone you don't know, have never met, and seeming so you can just stir up shit to "Piss People off" and keep me from earning income to my business. You accuse me of not taking instruction seriously and providing the legally required instruction. And you want me to just blow it off as hurt feelings?

You want come here after all that and "council" me about the responsibility of being a NRA Firearms instructor? I take firearms instruction very seriously where clearly you don't. You're lucky I don't know your real name and instructor number. You can bet the first call I would make would be to the NRA and the second would be to the officers I know in the local police departments. I doubt you'll ever get to certify anyone again after that call. You have no business doing Firearms instruction. Your ethics are extremely questionable and your behavior here does no good to the reputation of other firearms instructors and the NRA.

[The Black Knight]

damn...

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/931/feceshath.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/feceshath.jpg/)

[/URL][URL="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/justgot.jpg/"]http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/1056/justgot.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[MAZIN]

Um guess you don't read the back of your wallet credential card huh, thats what the qoute was from. I don't take this serous? Why would I comment on a sub par class covering law but not firearms. Have a nice rubber stamp class, hope you make your money and none of your students ever have to use thier CCW.

[Ezzzzy1]

Um guess you don't read the back of your wallet credential card huh, thats what the qoute was from. I don't take this serous? Why would I comment on a sub par class covering law but not firearms. Have a nice rubber stamp class, hope you make your money and none of your students ever have to use thier CCW.

:imwithstupid: Maz... You are a know it all TOOL. The only thing sub par on this thread is your comments.

[The Black Knight]

:imwithstupid: Maz... You are a know it all TOOL. The only thing sub par on this thread is your comments.
Actually Mazin is a cool guy. He's always had good input in firearms related threads. The back and forth between him and Stitch was just a couple guys ironing out some serious details. I think the thread derailed because of typical internet miscommunication. Mazin asked questions, Stitch feeling irritated fired back. At least that's how I saw it unfold. Was there a bit of prodding from Mazin?? maybe, but that was after Stitch got ticked off. It's the internet, everyone just relax.

[stitch]

Mazin asked questions, Stitch feeling irritated fired back.

Let's look at those "questions"

1. Mazin wrote "So call me a dick but 3.5 hrs?" = At this point I can't argue with Mazin's self assessment. Not really a question so I'll just give him this one. But lets read between the lines. What Mazin here is really doing is setting the stage to say I am not doing something correct and in his infinite wisdom he's is going to call me out on it.

2. Mazin wrote "Not a NRA class all basic pistol class' are 8 hrs." = Mazin here seems to imply based on his wealth of knowledge and showing his complete lack of reading comprehension that the CCW course I am offering is not a Basic NRA course. Look at that, he's right again! How about that. But if he was really a NRA instructor he might know that the only people besides Federal or LEO allowed to teach CCW classes are those certified by the NRA based on Colorado State Law. Nowhere in the title do I refer to this class as a NRA class, only that I am an NRA instructor.

But since we are on the topic of what the NRA requires lets see what else I wrote.

Mon Nov 7th, 2011, 06:26 PM

However the NRA does not allow me to teach CCW as part of the Basic Handgun class. I have to teach them seprate but both count for the permit.


This is long before Mazin every got into the thread. I think anyone with a kindergarten level comprehension of the English language would be able to understand that my CCW course is not a basic pistol course. But later, long before Mazin ever starts his BS, I state the following.

Tue Nov 8th, 2011, 11:11 AM

I am teaching a separate NRA basic handgun class on Dec 10th and 11th which does require live fire. It is an 8 hour class on basic handgun broken up over two days. You'll learn;
· Pistol knowlege and safe gun handling
· Ammunition Knowledge and Fundamentals of pistol shooting
· How to properly shoot (Stance, aiming, etc)
· Scoring targets and selecting and maintaining your pistol
There is a live fire component to this class. In order to pass the class you must fire a minimum of 20 shots. If need be I can provide a firearm.

This is a basic beginners class which is aimed at brand new shooters who might have never handled a gun before. Cost to CSC members is $100. Space is limited on this one as I have to order some training material for everyone who attends. It takes about a month for the material to arrive so I would need to know ASAP if you want to attend that class. I can take maybe 15 people for this class and I am at 11 right now. Saturday will be a 4 hour classroom session. Sunday will be another 4 hour session and then 2 hours on the range.


Hey look at that, Mazin and I agree on something. I clearly point out that I am teaching a NRA Basic pistol class and look at that, it's an 8 hour class (well 10 really with the all important and required live fire part). Again this is all long before Mazin starts shitting on his keyboard.

3. Mazin wrote "Also I would check the county that you live in because most want LIVE fire in the class." = Again Mazins ability to read at a 3rd grade level is in doubt. As he fails to not only read back in the thread where I discuss the difference between the two classes and then offer attendance at a actual NRA basic pistol class but I would also point out his inability to understand the difference between "Recommended" and "Required".

4. Mazin wrote "I would like to know if you are a LEO or have been, just wanting to know how you feel qualified to teach Your Own class and not stay with in the guidelines of the NRA Basic Pistol class outline." = Here again, Mazin showing his incredible ability to make leaps of logic, without any knowledge seems to imply that I am not following the guidelines of the NRA for a class that is not a NRA class. Again this isn't really a question but more of an accusation. Reading between the lines Mazin is questioning my ability to teach the class. He doesn't know me or my background or even what the full agenda is for the class. So again not really a question more of an accusation.


5. Mazin wrote "Also will you be giving out your certs or NRA certs, will your NRA Instructors Credentials be on the certs you hand out? Just a few questions...." = Look at that, an actual question. I would be impressed but I suspect his mother had to help him with this one. Again still this question is not really a question but more of an accusation. As all instructors are required to provide their credentials with a class completion certificate. Mazin, if he was in fact an actual instructor, would know that.


All of Mazin's accusations were intended to incite not to actually question. All of his posts were purely an attempt to discredit me. Not really sure what his motive was as i've never met him, never even heard of him before this thread. If he was really concerned he might PM me privately and say something like "Hey I am an NRA instructor as well, I have some concerns about what you posted here and would like to know more". Instead he did it publicly and with very flawed information that was easily available to him right here in this very thread. In calling me out publicly like he did he called into question the integrity of both my credentials and the NRAs ability to properly certify it's instructors. No real NRA instructor would ever bring that sort of public drama to another instructor in today's anti gun political environment.

So why am I so aggressive in my response with this? Firearms training isn't something to take lightly. I take it very seriously. I spend a lot of time and money to maintain my abilities and knowledge to ensure what I teach is proper and correct. I also invite local law enforcement to every class I teach to answer questions I might not be able to. I also generate a considerable portion of my income from this. To have someone publicly suggesting that I am not doing it properly can really affect my business and income. This takes food out of the mouths of my family. So in effect Mazin has just threatened my lively hood and my family's welfare. He better dam well be right when he does that. And clearly as we've seen he's talking out of his ass and just looking to troll as usual.

[The Black Knight]

Let's look at those "questions"

1. Mazin wrote "So call me a dick but 3.5 hrs?" = At this point I can't argue with Mazin's self assessment. Not really a question so I'll just give him this one. But lets read between the lines. What Mazin here is really doing is setting the stage to say I am not doing something correct and in his infinite wisdom he's is going to call me out on it.

2. Mazin wrote "Not a NRA class all basic pistol class' are 8 hrs." = Mazin here seems to imply based on his wealth of knowledge and showing his complete lack of reading comprehension that the CCW course I am offering is not a Basic NRA course. Look at that, he's right again! How about that. But if he was really a NRA instructor he might know that the only people besides Federal or LEO allowed to teach CCW classes are those certified by the NRA based on Colorado State Law. Nowhere in the title do I refer to this class as a NRA class, only that I am an NRA instructor.

But since we are on the topic of what the NRA requires lets see what else I wrote.

Mon Nov 7th, 2011, 06:26 PM

This is long before Mazin every got into the thread. I think anyone with a kindergarten level comprehension of the English language would be able to understand that my CCW course is not a basic pistol course. But later, long before Mazin ever starts his BS, I state the following.

Tue Nov 8th, 2011, 11:11 AM

Hey look at that, Mazin and I agree on something. I clearly point out that I am teaching a NRA Basic pistol class and look at that, it's an 8 hour class (well 10 really with the all important and required live fire part). Again this is all long before Mazin starts shitting on his keyboard.

3. Mazin wrote "Also I would check the county that you live in because most want LIVE fire in the class." = Again Mazins ability to read at a 3rd grade level is in doubt. As he fails to not only read back in the thread where I discuss the difference between the two classes and then offer attendance at a actual NRA basic pistol class but I would also point out his inability to understand the difference between "Recommended" and "Required".

4. Mazin wrote "I would like to know if you are a LEO or have been, just wanting to know how you feel qualified to teach Your Own class and not stay with in the guidelines of the NRA Basic Pistol class outline." = Here again, Mazin showing his incredible ability to make leaps of logic, without any knowledge seems to imply that I am not following the guidelines of the NRA for a class that is not a NRA class. Again this isn't really a question but more of an accusation. Reading between the lines Mazin is questioning my ability to teach the class. He doesn't know me or my background or even what the full agenda is for the class. So again not really a question more of an accusation.


5. Mazin wrote "Also will you be giving out your certs or NRA certs, will your NRA Instructors Credentials be on the certs you hand out? Just a few questions...." = Look at that, an actual question. I would be impressed but I suspect his mother had to help him with this one. Again still this question is not really a question but more of an accusation. As all instructors are required to provide their credentials with a class completion certificate. Mazin, if he was in fact an actual instructor, would know that.


All of Mazin's accusations were intended to incite not to actually question. All of his posts were purely an attempt to discredit me. Not really sure what his motive was as i've never met him, never even heard of him before this thread. If he was really concerned he might PM me privately and say something like "Hey I am an NRA instructor as well, I have some concerns about what you posted here and would like to know more". Instead he did it publicly and with very flawed information that was easily available to him right here in this very thread. In calling me out publicly like he did he called into question the integrity of both my credentials and the NRAs ability to properly certify it's instructors. No real NRA instructor would ever bring that sort of public drama to another instructor in today's anti gun political environment.

So why am I so aggressive in my response with this? Firearms training isn't something to take lightly. I take it very seriously. I spend a lot of time and money to maintain my abilities and knowledge to ensure what I teach is proper and correct. I also invite local law enforcement to every class I teach to answer questions I might not be able to. I also generate a considerable portion of my income from this. To have someone publicly suggesting that I am not doing it properly can really affect my business and income. This takes food out of the mouths of my family. So in effect Mazin has just threatened my lively hood and my family's welfare. He better dam well be right when he does that. And clearly as we've seen he's talking out of his ass and just looking to troll as usual.
And I understand everything you're saying. Either he didn't read your previous posts or something. I don't know, I can't answer for him. I got that you were teaching two different classes from your earlier posts.

Reason I, said it may be a miscommunication(and it's the internet so anything is possible, I'm not making excuses though) is that in the past Mazin has always contributed to firearm related threads and given good info. Now granted it's been a long time since I've seen him post in a firearm thread, so I don't know what happened. In the past he's always been credible in my opinion. Then again, I'm not an NRA instructor nor will I ever claim to be. I know my fair share of laws, info and etc, concerning CCW as I am CCW(and have been for a long time now) that I only worry about keeping up on stuff for myself really. But I've always found Mazin's info to be accurate and honest in the past.

So again, I don't know where this thread really derailed. I think it was back when you two got into it but that's what I saw/read. So by no means am I here to discredit you or your instructional skills. You do it as a profession and I wouldn't think of taking away from that. Just from what I know of Mazin in the past, he's a good guy and has never been one to troll. Least not that I've ever seen but I don't get into every thread on here either....

[grim]

This thread delivers.

[AOK303]

hmm Im in for the class

[stitch]

Apparently some of you didn't get the email with class info I sent out. If you are interested in the class and didn't get an email from me please PM me.

[grim]

Apparently some of you didn't get the email with class info I sent out. If you are interested in the class and didn't get an email from me please PM me.

I did get it. It if i bring in my dd214 and pay cash is that ok?

[stitch]

I did get it. It if i bring in my dd214 and pay cash is that ok?

Works for me!

[AOK303]

Do we need to reg on that site

[stitch]

Do we need to reg on that site

It's not required if you are paying by cash at the door. I just need to know if you are coming so I can print certificates. Otherwise if you want to pay in advance by credit card or check it's paypal.

[grim]

It's not required if you are paying by cash at the door. I just need to know if you are coming so I can print certificates. Otherwise if you want to pay in advance by credit card or check it's paypal.

I think i gave you all of my info if not let me know.

[stitch]

I think i gave you all of my info if not let me know.

You're all good Grim.

[rfranks303]

im still in and will bring cash to the door what else do I need to bring.

[AOK303]

Cash at the door i will bring

[Spooph]

Awww man, Grim is coming? I'm not so sure I want to go anymore... :P

[grim]

Awww man, Grim is coming? I'm not so sure I want to go anymore... :P

I promise i will have deodorant on guys.....Jeez layoff my stench for a minute will you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to mention i have seen you but have yet to actually meet you!

[mastap07]

this is the one i saw about a week ago Jack!
HEADS!!!!
http://youtu.be/aJvz7NqgRhc

i think ill wait my 30 seconds lol

[grim]

this is the one i saw about a week ago Jack!
HEADS!!!!
http://youtu.be/aJvz7NqgRhc

i think ill wait my 30 seconds lol

It's almost hard to believe that's real, how could you be so dumb to look down the barrel of a misfired loaded gun?

[rfranks303]

I learned a lot from this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUJ97iAUuXI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[stitch]

this is the one i saw about a week ago Jack!
HEADS!!!!
http://youtu.be/aJvz7NqgRhc

i think ill wait my 30 seconds lol

Yep, like we talked about in class, there is never a reason to look down the barrel like that. Sad thing is there are tons of videos like that all over youtube. And a lot of them are showing instructors doing this stupid shit. I just don't understand why supposedly knowledgeable people will do that.

This on is my favorite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zw-jTCNZSmY

Hope you guys enjoyed the class.

[grim]

I'm assuming you had a different class cause otherwise I'm losing my mind and the 17th isnt next weekend as I'm pretty sure it is.

[stitch]

I'm assuming you had a different class cause otherwise I'm losing my mind and the 17th isnt next weekend as I'm pretty sure it is.

Yeah, it was a Basic Pistol class not the CCW. You're still go to go for next weekend.

[Spooph]

I promise i will have deodorant on guys.....Jeez layoff my stench for a minute will you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not to mention i have seen you but have yet to actually meet you!

Actually Grim, we have met... I'm guessing you just don't remember where, but you'll know my mug once you see me again.... :D It's gonna be a hoot!

[mastap07]

Yep, like we talked about in class, there is never a reason to look down the barrel like that. Sad thing is there are tons of videos like that all over youtube. And a lot of them are showing instructors doing this stupid shit. I just don't understand why supposedly knowledgeable people will do that.

This on is my favorite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zw-jTCNZSmY

Hope you guys enjoyed the class.

i do remember seeing this one a few years back lol it was a great class and i learned lots! thanks again Jack and well see you next weekend!

[Spooph]

Stitch! Thanks a bunch for the class man. I hope you passed on my regards to Brian - the sheriff who was also there. Sorry I couldn't hang and chat. If anybody had any doubts about Stitch, let them rest, he knows what he's talking about (except when it comes to single and double action... :P), and taught us everything we needed to know to satisfy the state's requirement for a CC permit under the watchful eye of a current Sheriff. Issues specific to riders were also addressed, making this course especially good for us. I wouldn't mind taking some of his other classes as well and heard some very positive feedback from others on his basic pistol course. I also can't wait to ride with the guy - hopefully the future allows such nonsense.

[AOK303]

great class thanks for doing this for us and hopefully we do a run before you go to seatle

[mastap07]

it was a good class. learned even more stuff from Jack (even about chewie) but i felt much safer in this class lol. with all joking aside Jack teaches some great classes so if you havent taken a class from him and are on the fence about taking a gun class, i would recommend it!

[grim]

I second the motion of a very informative and great learning experience, thank you!

[stitch]

Thanks for the great comments guys. Glad you enjoyed the class. Sadly it will be my last class here in Denver. I am moving on to "greener pastures" in January. But feel free to keep in touch if you have any follow on questions. Would love to ride but I doubt the weather will cooperate.

[Penadam]

That's too bad. I couldn't make this one as something came up last min, but was looking forward to the opportunity to get in on another one. Wish you luck in your greener pasture.

[rfranks303]

That does suck. I enjoyed the class and was hoping to send my wife to it.

[stitch]

I might be open to hosting one more before I leave. If I can get at least 10 people together we could do a CCW class on the 14th.

[grim]

I might be open to hosting one more before I leave. If I can get at least 10 people together we could do a CCW class on the 14th.

Can i go again without paying it was fun.

[stitch]

Can i go again without paying it was fun.

I don't have a problem with that. Can you guys get 10 people together?

[t_jolt]

count me in for 1