Still getting screwed by tri-city.

[bendavis]

About a week ago a moron knocked ali's bike over in a parking lot and there were several witnesses, the cops did nothing even though they could have gotten several witness statements and the ass hole had the nerve to leave his bike there- which the witnesses had pointed out. So our insurance decides to sort everything out. Mr. adjuster shows up to take a look at the bike and informs us the bike was already written off a total loss and they could give us 1400 minus the deductable for vandalism (500!)

I know there is no way I would have bought a salvage bike from a dealer, (we had another bike we were looking at that was cheaper but we went with this one because it was lowered and had fewer miles) so if I knew it was already totalled I wouldn't have bothered.

My question is this: Is it legal for a dealer to sell a salvaged bike? If so, is there additional paper work that needs to be signed.

This purchase has been trouble from day one and they have been hell to deal with.
They had HORRIBLE service and lied through their teeth to sell us this bike. I'm incredibly pissed off at this situation and want to know if you guys have any ideas. (accepting 900 for a bike we JUST spent 4k on isn't an option...)

Also to be noted is the fact we have been paying for full coverage insurance on a 4000 bike for the last year.

[McVaaahhh]

There is additional paperwork that must be signed. Something to the effect of "Notice of Salvage Title" or similar. I purchased a salvaged/rebuilt bike 6 or 7 years ago and they would not transfer the title at the DMV without that doc signed by the seller and buyer.

Possible that could've changed though. :dunno:

[Wrider]

Either way in CO it's required to have a Salvage/Rebuilt title. And it says it in big bold (red IIRC) letters across the top. It's legal to sell one sure, but it HAS to be disclosed.

BTW How are you guys doing? How'd the move go?

[McVaaahhh]

^^ Yes, it is marked on the title. I believe mine just had a normal font "S" in the top-left corner.

[rfranks303]

I bought my first car with an s title. Long story short you should have had to sign a salvage disclosure form. All the ones I've seen say what it is, in big bold letters. I would think they have to keep there paper work for a certain amount of time. So either the dealer or finance company would have a copy with you sig on it. These are just (poorly organized and misspelled) thoughts.

[birchyboy]

About a week ago a moron knocked ali's bike over in a parking lot and there were several witnesses, the cops did nothing even though they could have gotten several witness statements and the ass hole had the nerve to leave his bike there- which the witnesses had pointed out. So our insurance decides to sort everything out. Mr. adjuster shows up to take a look at the bike and informs us the bike was already written off a total loss and they could give us 1400 minus the deductable for vandalism (500!)

I know there is no way I would have bought a salvage bike from a dealer, (we had another bike we were looking at that was cheaper but we went with this one because it was lowered and had fewer miles) so if I knew it was already totalled I wouldn't have bothered.

My question is this: Is it legal for a dealer to sell a salvaged bike? If so, is there additional paper work that needs to be signed.

This purchase has been trouble from day one and they have been hell to deal with.
They had HORRIBLE service and lied through their teeth to sell us this bike. I'm incredibly pissed off at this situation and want to know if you guys have any ideas. (accepting 900 for a bike we JUST spent 4k on isn't an option...)

Also to be noted is the fact we have been paying for full coverage insurance on a 4000 bike for the last year.

What year is the bike? I think salvage titles only apply if it is less than 6 years old.

[McVaaahhh]

What year is the bike? I think salvage titles only apply if it is less than 6 years old.

No, any year bike can be salvaged. However, if it's older than 5 years and you have the title in hand it will not get reported by the ins company and if you resell it still has a clean title. Kinda weird, but it happened with my F4i that I crashed.

[TinkerinWstuff]

No, any year bike can be salvaged. However, if it's older than 5 years and you have the title in hand it will not get reported by the ins company and if you resell it still has a clean title. Kinda weird, but it happened with my F4i that I crashed.

I'm confused. if insurance doesn't report it, then it's not salvage title right?

[asp_125]

Isn't a dealer obligated to disclose if a bike has a salvage title? If so and there is no "S" on the title I think there'd be a case to go after.

[The GECCO]

OK, here's what I've been able to piece together from my experience, may or may not be 100% accurate. I owned a bike in the past that was salvage and it DID have an "S" on the front of the title...it may have actually been the last character of the title number but I'm not sure. I *think* there are a couple ways that a title becomes designated "salvage". The first is if the seller indicates it as such on the title itself when the title changes hands. Usually the only sellers that will do this are the insurance companies. The second is when you (as the new owner) apply for title from the state, and the state has been notified that the vehicle was "totaled" since the last title transfer. I'm not positive this second method is actually occurring, but it wouldn't surprise me given the ease with which such information is shared nowadays.

Let's look at a couple different hypothetical scenarios

Scenario One
Lets say I buy a bike. I crash it and the ins company totals it and says they're gonna reimburse me $5000 (or whatever). It's damaged badly enough that I don't want anything to do with the leftovers so I let the ins company take possession of the bike and I take the $5000. In this case I am essentially selling the bike to the ins company and the title transfers to them. When the ins company later sells the leftovers (as scrap, or at an auction like Klode's, or wherever) THEY indicate on the title that the vehicle is "salvage", and that VIN will be forever designated as such. No dealer will ever touch it with a 10 foot pole for liability reasons, but it could certainly be purchased by anyone else, fixed and ridden. Even if it is repaired such that it looks brand spanking new, no dealer will touch it and most ins companies will not issue a comprehensive policy for it.

Scenario Two
Same as scenario one, except that despite being written off by the insurance company *I* think the bike is worth keeping for whatever reason. When I decide to keep it, the insurance company will subtract the salvage value (whatever they think they could sell the leftovers for) from my settlement and instead of getting $5000 and no leftovers, I might get $4000 and keep the leftovers. In this case, the bank never takes possession of the bike or title, the title stays in MY name the entire time. I could later sell the bike to another person, or trade it into a dealer, and, unless I'm honest enough to declare it as salvage on the title transfer, the title would transfer to the new owner perfectly clean and they would have no way of knowing it was ever wrecked.

If scenario two is what happened, I'm not sure how much liability Tri-City has. The question is - how does the ins company know it was previously written off? I have a couple theories on this:


The first theory is that you (bendavis) just happen to have the same ins carrier as the person who owned the bike when it was totaled. Not an unheard of coincidence.
The second, and more likely, theory is that the ins companies share some type of database that includes information related to when a particular VIN is involved in an accident and/or totaled. This is likely the same type of database that services like CarFax would have access to.

Either way, this begs the question of why the ins company sold you a full coverage policy on a bike they "knew" they would not have to pay a full value payout for in the event it was damaged. It's possible, and likely, that they didn't investigate the VIN until the damage was reported. It's also possible that your premium was lower that normal because of the lower value of the bike.

You could ask the state to do a title history search on it, or you could run a carfax report on it (though I'm not sure if they do bikes yet, last I knew they didn't). The purpose would be to determine when the title was FIRST designated as salvage. If it was prior to Tri-City taking possession you have a case against them for the difference in what you received from your ins company versus the vale of the same bike if it were non-salvage. However, notice I said PRIOR to Tri-City taking possession. This is because dealers never actually get titles issued in their names, they are allowed to accept a signed title from the seller and then assign that same title to the new buyer without ever sending it to the state. If scenario two above was happening and I traded the bike to Tri-City after fixing it, they would take my (non-salvage) signed title, and then re-assign it to bendavis when he buys the bike. In this case Tri-City has no way of knowing it was salvage.

What to do? I think the first thing is to find out both when the bike was totaled, and when (or if) the title was first designated as salvage. Your ins company should be able to tell you the first part. If your title is designated "salvage" then the state will be able to tell you the second part. If the state issued you a clean title, I'm not sure where to go from there.

Sorry for the long writeup, let us know what you find.

[TinkerinWstuff]

Good point gecco. If they were happy to take you money on a full coverage policy, they should pay up now.

[Skinbabe]

If the title does not show the s on it then your insurance company should not treat it as salvage. Insurance companies have a search engine they can run your vin through that tells them weather or not that vin has had previous claims on, no matter what company the claim was filed with. If the title doesn't have the s on it, I'm guessing this is where they are getting their data. As far as I know, no finance company would have given you a loan if there was an s on the title. It is a good possibility that tri city didn't know about the prior accident. I also think that your insurance company cannot treat the bike as a salvage with out the s title. Call your bank, have them look at the title and see if there is an s on the title. If not then tri city did nothing wrong, if there is an s then get a lawyer because you have a good case against them for not dis closing that. If there is not an s on the title, take that back to your insurance.... Tell them the bike is not salvage per the title. If your adjuster is still being a schmuck, try their manager. Let them know you will file a bad faith complaint with the dept of insurance. Good luck!

[Skinbabe]

Good point gecco. If they were happy to take you money on a full coverage policy, they should pay up now.

You can put a " full coverage " policy on just about anything you want, that's not the issue here. The issue is how much they say the bike is worth. Most insurance companies full coverage policy is an actual cash value policy, saying they will pay you the cost to repair or the acv, which ever is less. This has nothing to do with weather or not it has a salvage title. That being said, most insurance companies will not put full coverage on any vehicle with a salvage title.

[TinkerinWstuff]

That being said, most insurance companies will not put full coverage on any vehicle with a salvage title.

which is what I was getting at.

[MRA 32]

If the bike has a salvage title you would not have gotten plates or registration for it without signing a form at the DMV disclosing what was salvaged on it. I titled a salvaged bike a year ago and could not do anything until I disclosed what was wrong/repaired/changed to make it road worthy. I have heard of insurance companies balking at paying on claims if you don't have repairs from a previous crash/claim documented, and you are the same owner with the second claim, but this is not the case here. Remember insurance companies only make money when they don't have to payout.

And Tri-City had to disclose to you that it was a salvaged bike.

Tri-Shitty is not what it was when the Dimicks owned it. The new ownership is really shady. I had a really bad experience with them a couple of years ago and I will never do business with them again. They are fighting to survive and will screw anybody they can right now. (this is my opinion about tri-shitty and should be taken with a grain of salt)

I hate seeing good people getting screwed. Good luck.

Jeff

[MRA 32]

Ben, I talked to a friend :boobies: (with benefits) in the insurance business. What you were told by the insurance company is bull-shit. When you make a claim on a loss (your bike) the insurance companies responsibility is to make you whole again, not better, but whole again. So they call 3 dealerships for example and give them the info on your bike and get quotes from them on the value of the bike. This average is what you get paid for your loss. So if these three dealerships say they can sell it for 4k, in theory that is what you get minus your deductable. Salvaged or clean the bike has value and you should be made whole again. What was paid out in the past on this bike has nothing to do with you.

[Skinbabe]

Ben, I talked to a friend :boobies: (with benefits) in the insurance business. What you were told by the insurance company is bull-shit. When you make a claim on a loss (your bike) the insurance companies responsibility is to make you whole again, not better, but whole again. So they call 3 dealerships for example and give them the info on your bike and get quotes from them on the value of the bike. This average is what you get paid for your loss. So if these three dealerships say they can sell it for 4k, in theory that is what you get minus your deductable. Salvaged or clean the bike has value and you should be made whole again. What was paid out in the past on this bike has nothing to do with you.

I'm an insurance adjuster and I do this all day everyday. Every insurance company has a different process but the process stated above is not all acurate.

Ben, felel free to contact me I will be more than happy to help you with your claim.

[HOTCARCASS]

I know there is no excuse for the I win you lose mentality in sales. I have to say that I know the guys in at tricity. I bought 3 bikes from them this summer. The three best bikes I have ever owned. 999s, 1098r and a zx-6. all total cream-puffs. Yes they made a little money on our transactions but so did I! It's common they find financing for individuals that can't get approved else where. As for service Otis Turner (MRA #1) is a local hero and intends for good things in our motorcycle community. The owner himself has a Moto GP Racing Background, you would never know it He's a totally humble guy. Just my 25 cents worth.

[TinkerinWstuff]

I've bought/traded two bikes with Tri-City and had good luck as well. Two individual transactions.

Granted, I could have spent less and made more if I wanted to f' around on craigslist and buy/sell direct. But they've always treated me fair.

[kevplus2]

in colorado...if a vehicle is 5 years old or older, a salvage title is not required.

case in point...i bought my zrx with a good title and when i wrecked it years later it was considered totalled because the repair cost exceeded what it was worth. state farm payed me the what the zrx was worth (i carry $0 deductible). i repaired it (damage was fairly minimal) and kept my same title. there was no requirement for any type of inspection or a different title

a car fax/insurance report on the vin will show that it is a financial total, but there is no requirement for a different title of any kind

[UglyDogRacing]

The owner himself has a Moto GP Racing Background, you would never know it He's a totally humble guy. Just my 25 cents worth.

Brady Welton raced TZ250's and YZF1000's back in the 90's on the local Gold Hill team. He ran some of the now defunct AMA 250 Grand Prix races and some CCS nationals.
He's not a Moto GP racer.

[HOTCARCASS]

Hear say on my part... I knew he had some credible motorcycle experiance. I stand corrected. AMA GP got it!

[MetaLord 9]

I've skimmed most of this thread, so forgive if I'm repeating from above.

Regarding at what point a vehicle becomes salvage, I'm not 100% sure, most likely when the insurance company buys the bike back with the intention to resell.

However, in Colorado, once a bike has been deemed "Salvage," you get a certificate of salvage, which is basically an unregisterable title. That cert goes with the vehicle and is basically treated as a title. Once the state has deemed the bike salvage, the only way to get rid of the cert of salvage and replace with a title is to repair the vehicle to roadworthiness and have it inspected by CSP. Once the bike passes, you take your signed piece of paper from CSP to the DMV and those ass ponies will convert it to a salvage title. This is a registerable title that will contain an "S" or some manner of notation indicating the vehicle is salvage. Additionally, in order to pass CSP inspection, you have stamp the vehicle "REBUILD FROM SALVAGE" visibly on the frame.

Once you've got your salvage title, you can register and go about your merry way. My experience is that insurance will cover other vehicles you hit, but will not cover the bike. Part of the reason is probably because the value of a salvaged bike is too hard to determine well enough to allow the insurance guys to write a policy.

[MRA 32]

It sounds like we all have a different story to tell regarding salvaged bikes. I have owned two salvaged bikes in the past and didn't have to stamp the frame with anything. But I did have to fill out paper work in both cases as to what piece or parts had been salvaged. I just titled a dirt bike and wow that was an experience. Anytime we deal with the government (DMV or CSP) each person is going to have a different experience. Which means we are at the mercy of those we deal with.

Unfortunitly this is the case with insurance companies as well.

As far as Tri-City...Well I agree with the rest of you that Otis and Adam are good guys. But the rest of you don't know the details of my issue in the past and I will not share those details other than...Brady contacted me and made things right.

[bendavis]

Well, the lawyers we have spoken to basically told us we dont have much of a case. The insurance company gave us 900 and we're keeping the bike. The other guys insurance got a hold of us and they are going to take the hit so we will get our 500 deductable also. In the end $1400 and we get to keep a perfectly good running bike.

That said, I'm still really confused about whether this bike is totalled or not. The instance company is not taking our title away or having us file any paperwork, so it still looks like a normal title...

In the end, I know I need to be thankful that we are going to be able to fix most of the problems without paying out of pocket but there is still a part of me that feels like tri-city pulled a fast one.

Seriously though, I wouldn't recommend them to any friends and if you end up working with them I hope you have a better experience.

Also a side note:

Texas sucks! We both have great jobs with great pay. A house on a ranch and an apartment literally across the street from the Alamo (it's totally haunted, I only sleep there once or twice a week when I'm to exhausted to make the 40 mile trip home) rent free, and there haven't been any bad riding days. However, we still have NO friends and we both work 60+ hours a week. Anyways, we miss you guys a lot and hope you're enjoying the snow. :p

[AOK303]

did you ever mention what insurance you use
and did you ever get a copy of the Insurance claim that shows it was already paid out on.

Just wondering im pretty sure you done and through with it