Non Vehicle related legal question

[JonnyD]

CSC forum gods and trolls:

So my little sister is stuck in a situation that really sucks. Her downstairs neighbor constantly calls the cops on her for her dog, for her walking across her condo, for her doing anything he deems unreasonable. She does have hardwood floors, and she works strange hours because she's a nurse. But she doesn't clomp around (I'm not sure she even owns heels), and tries to be respectful as much as she possibly can. One actually wonders if this guy has EVER lived in a condo, or with an upstairs neighbor.

She has already been to court for her dog barking, though the evidence he provided I don't believe was her dog, but another neighbor that is gone now. The point was, he has "evidence" (his word written down on when her dog was barking), and she was convicted of a barking dog ticket that she had to pay a fine for.

The cops have come over to her place numerous times, have told her stories like they won't come over unless he and another person calls about her dog, etc. He has turned down mediation at least 3 times. He called once when she was asleep at 5am, the cops wouldn't ring/knock cause all her lights were out, and then when they left he pounded on the door till she woke up and answered. Of course her dog was barking at someone pounding on the door. He yelled at her when she answered her door.

Now here's the question: How can you prove something like this, without having "proof"? Or is that all that matters? Video, sound recordings, written accounts by her, what can she do to get any kind of recourse? She doesn't want to move. This is starting to escalate, this morning she woke up to a broken windshield. Looks to me like someone put a hammer through it, big 2" hole in it, rest is spiderweb shattered. It was definitely not a random rock kicking up from a tire. Of course she has no proof that it was him, but no other cars were touched. Is there anything she can do? Or should I buy a video system and set it up to record everything from now on out?

Thanks in advance :bow:

[grim]

Invite him for drink and the rest of the CSC and we can figure out a resolution I'm sure.


In all seriousness though a few questions have to be asked.
Is it an HOA community?
Are reports actually being filed when the police are called?

If its an HOA then he can be evicted for causing too much of a disruption to the community with false reports about the dog or disturbing her at odd hours through the night.

Also if damage is being done to personall property a camera may not be a bad idea.

[Zanatos]

My sister had an almost identical situation. Eventually, the guy started to make indirect threats like, "I sure hope nothing happens to your car tonight" and "The doors on this place sure are flimsy. I bet it would be easy for someone to break into your place."

As soon as her lease was up, she got out of there. She ended up buying a townhouse in a nice neighborhood with good neighbors and an HOA.

In my opinion, living next to a psycho is not worth the hassle. At the very least, the guy is a troublemaker with way too much time on his hands. Your sister needs to get the Hell out of there before he does something to her car, her dog, or her - or before she goes crazy from the stress of having to worry about everything all the time.

[JonnyD]

In all seriousness though a few questions have to be asked.
Is it an HOA community?

Yes it's an HOA



Are reports actually being filed when the police are called?


I believe so, police are called, reports filed, etc.



If its an HOA then he can be evicted for causing too much of a disruption to the community with false reports about the dog or disturbing her at odd hours through the night.

Also if damage is being done to personall property a camera may not be a bad idea.
But if he's claiming his written accounts are fact, how can that be disputed? At that point, isn't it word against word?

Guess a motion camera will be in the works. =/ I wish this were easier, but other than the neighbor she loves where she lives.

[RajunCajun]

Invite him for drink and the rest of the CSC and we can figure out a resolution I'm sure.

When and where??

In all seriousness though a few questions have to be asked.
Is it an HOA community?
Are reports actually being filed when the police are called?

If its an HOA then he can be evicted for causing too much of a disruption to the community with false reports about the dog or disturbing her at odd hours through the night.

Also if damage is being done to personall property a camera may not be a bad idea.

I don't think I could allow myself to cut and run but that might be the best advice for her. Personally, we'd have a talk involving me cutting him up into pieces if he F'd with me again. That's just me.....

[grim]

Because it is in an HOA every month there is supposed to be a HOA meeting your sister needs to attend that meeting with the landlord (if she is not the owner) and explain what is happening. The HOA's responsibility is to make the living environment comfortable and to enforce rules and regulations that's what the HOA fees are paid to do. Perhaps it is in your sisters best interest to contact the police if he is banging on her door or every time someone does have her record the conversation on her phone or whatever she can do to prove any interaction took place.

Proof is what you need the whole he said she said will not fly. In the condo i just moved out of the people below us filed a complaint that i was doing construction work at 2am on weekdays in the condo. At the time my kid was 1 year old and my wife worked the night shift. I went to the HOA meeting as requested to dispute the matter and the people who filed the complaint never showed up. Therefore there was no dispute and there was no fine. The people below me did end up getting evicted because the police were called on them numerous times for them slamming there door and cabinets. calls in which not a single one was placed by me.

Keep in mind if he calls enough and the police do file a report saying "yes the dog is loud" the HOA can evict her. If this is not the case then the matter needs to be brought up to the HOA and let them handle it.

[Ricky]

If you can convince a judge that the person is harassing her, you can get a restraining order taken out against the neighbor.

I recently sued my homeowners association, pro se, and this guy who is a member of the board and lives right across from me, started yelling at me for random shit from across the road. I've lived next to this dude for 9+ years and he never had a problem until I filed my lawsuit. My neighbor witnessed it the first time. The second time, I sent the HOA a certified letter stating that if he ever said another word to me aside from in an HOA meeting, that I would file for a restraining order. I also included a copy of the paperwork for filing the restraining order. I claimed he was harassing me through stalking, based on CO law. The guy stopped, and has never said another word to me again, and the HOA stopped sending me violation letters. This is after I made an attempt to have the Adams County Sheriff go to this guy's door and tell him to stop harassing me or I'd file for the restraining order. I waited until he got home until the Sheriff came out, then he wouldn't answer his door. The Sheriff gave me some great info on protection orders in general.

What I learned about Restraining orders through all this, is that they are VERY easy to get. It does not have to involve physical harm from a spouse. It can be to the point where the problem is creating serious emotional stress (see CO harassment/stalking laws), that affects your life. If your sister can sit in front of a judge and explain that he is making it impossible to live, then a judge could likely grant it. ESPECIALLY if he has become such a nuisance about it, that the cops want additional witnesses. The hammer in the windshield could help create a case, even if it can't be proven it was this guy. You could just say that she fears for her life, and she is positive that it's this guy doing it, and that might be enough for a judge. This guy would have to go to court, and under oath, tell a judge that he did not put a hammer in her windshield.

If you can put a camera on her car, I'd do it. But a person is usually only stupid enough to do those things one time. Video and audio evidence is quite compelling in a court of law. Do this FOR SURE, if she is able to get a restraining order.

For help with filing for a restraining order, go here: http://www.courts.state.co.us/Forms/Forms_List.cfm?Form_Type_ID=24

Added:
Grim is saying that she should attend the HOA meetings, but this is only if she is an owner. If she is just renting, then she is not allowed to attend HOA meetings. She would have been notified by her landlord that they received a violation from the HOA. At that point, the tenant can attend a hearing with the owner to plea their case.

[laspariahs]

I assume she called the cops about the broken windshield......

[MetaLord 9]

+1 on a harassment filing with the police if it qualifies.

What do her other neighbors think? If she's in a condo, she probably has multiple neighbors. if she can get them all to vouch for her, sign a petition or something of the like, and, even better, if they can provide similar stories of harassment then there's cause to believe the guy is being malicious.

[JonnyD]

She is the owner of the Condo, and she did call and report the broken windshield. I'm not positive of the HOA situation, but I will make sure that she gets these suggestions.

Previous to now, Lakewood PD has said she does not have the case for a restraining order. I think Ricky's suggestions will be spot on, THANKS!!!

[grim]

She is the owner of the Condo, and she did call and report the broken windshield. I'm not positive of the HOA situation, but I will make sure that she gets these suggestions.

Previous to now, Lakewood PD has said she does not have the case for a restraining order. I think Ricky's suggestions will be spot on, THANKS!!!

Even if she wasn't the Owner she could still have gotten involved with the owner and brought it up.

Nonetheless its good that she is the owner it needs to brought up to the HOA and it needs to be resolved through them its what they get paid to do.

[Ezzzzy1]

What if her dog does bark during the day while she is gone? What if he can hear every step she takes?

It all may sound a little crazy but something that would drive me crazy (and has before) is living in a building where you can hear the person above you flush the toilet, walk across the whole place and set their knife on their plate. A bunch of small things can really make a neighbor mad and if your sister is playing the innocent card I may call the cops as well.

Its really all about mutual respect and both people might be guilty of not being that way. Usually once a situation like this is "broken" its not going to get better without both people hammering it out (like marriage counseling).

Im not trying to call your sister out and quite possibly she has been respectful and this guy is just a prick. Good luck to her.

Edit: I know of a situation where the home owners had to sue the HOA because there was a large problem with noise between floors. When the level of insulation was tested it came back waay below the acceptable level. This may be part of the problem.

[Frankie675]

I am a police officer for a small community right now. I don't deal with anything crazy and most of my work is dealt with trying to keep the community happy. My best advice would be to have someone she trusts, maybe you, go with her and talk to the neighbor. Maybe you two can go and see what how bad the noises are and come up with a solution. It obviously seems to me that his intentions are for you to give up and move out. I would make it clear that you plan on staying and would like to find a way to resolve things. I'm sure that if he was able to prove that the noises are unbearable then you would be able to come up with a way to fix it. And if things don't work out and he still contiues to cause problems then I would be keeping a log of everything that has happened. And when he fucks up, because people always fuck up when they act out in anger, your sweet little sister will be able to provide the cops with everything they need to know about the violent theatening neigbhor.

[JonnyD]

What if her dog does bark during the day while she is gone? What if he can hear every step she takes?

It all may sound a little crazy but something that would drive me crazy (and has before) is living in a building where you can hear the person above you flush the toilet, walk across the whole place and set their knife on their plate. A bunch of small things can really make a neighbor mad and if your sister is playing the innocent card I may call the cops as well.

Its really all about mutual respect and both people might be guilty of not being that way. Usually once a situation like this is "broken" its not going to get better without both people hammering it out (like marriage counseling).

Im not trying to call your sister out and quite possibly she has been respectful and this guy is just a prick. Good luck to her.

Edit: I know of a situation where the home owners had to sue the HOA because there was a large problem with noise between floors. When the level of insulation was tested it came back waay below the acceptable level. This may be part of the problem.


A little back history that may help:

When she first moved in, she had to completely redo the place as it was reposessed and no one had lived there for awhile (at least 6 months, but I never got a real number). I'm sure construction didn't help, but it was all done during the proper hours and over within 2 weeks.

A while after she moved in, her downstairs neighbor had started by writing her a note saying that her dog was barking in a window (dog sees people and wants to play). We immediately moved her furniture so the dog couldn't see out that window, and bought a large floor rug to help alleviate the problem in the living room with the hardwood. As near as we could tell, her dog quit barking.

Numerous times after that when the cops were called they noticed the dog next to my sister was barking, but hers wasn't. The barking dog was up and diagonal from her downstairs neighbor and this dog would bark incessantly. I can see how he would think it was hers. Both her and her other dog neighbor were taken to court over dog barking issues, both had to pay fines, and both were at different dates. I'm sure he used the same log for both cases.

Her other dog neighbor has moved out, and yes, her dog does bark for a couple minutes when she leaves. She's tried everything from bark collars to tiring the dog out, anything she can to get this to stop. I'd be pissed too if I heard a dog barking incessantly, but her dog isn't. I believe state law is more than 5 minutes, but I know a dog barking echoes and even a couple of barks can be annoying. Hell, I live in a bottom floor condo and can hear my neighbor walk across his place and can usually identify what TV show or movie he's watching, but that's just the breaks of sharing a wall with someone. I'm not paying to rebuild the condo!

I'd offer to help her and go see about resolving it, but I'm not sure I could handle myself well if I had proof he smashed in her window, or he started yelling at her like he's done before. He was requested to do mediation in her court appearance, and denied it 3 times.

I really think there's probably fault on both ends, but it seems he is really taking his side to extremes to make her life difficult, or get her to move out.

Thanks again for ALL the help in here!

[#1Townie]

Not sure if its been posted im kind of in a hurry. This person is using police to harass your people. This is not legal. now its just time to start the court processes and maybe involving an attorney because of her agony from all of this harassment.

[mauser72]

The most important thing she could do is log time and date every incident she has with this neighbor for any possible legal issues down the road, if it does get too nasty then a restraining order should be filed. She needs to be able to show a pattern of harrasment.

[JonnyD]

So in case anyone was wondering what the outcome of this is:

Last night my sister finally sat down with her downstairs neighbor and mediators. Over 2 hours, and inside mediation he told her "If you were a dude I would have beat your ass", and she admitted she was scared of him. She told him at the start of the meeting "I'm sorry I'm not the neighbor you want me to be" to which he had no reply.

He seriously thinks she's making noise in her condo to harass him, told her straight to her face that she's racist. He also admitted to banging stuff around his place and on the ceiling to "pay her back" for all the noise she's causing. So, I told her to come stay at my place for as long as she needs.

We stopped by the police station in Lakewood and finally talked to an officer that offered help, and then suggested that moving out might be the best idea. We then dropped by her place and got all the necessities she needs for the next week and left. She's insanely bummed that there really isn't anything she could do on this, and that now she has to move out to avoid further harassment from her neighbor. She's hoping she can at least get what she owes on her condo and walk away.

As for all the tips, thank you ALL for your advice. Even though she eventually chose not to follow any of it, the police officer we talked to today confirmed that witnesses and recording things are really the only way anything will be proven, enough to make a case or show a pattern of harassment. I hope none of you have to go through any of this, but if you do, record EVERYTHING!!!

[Slo]

So even though he admitted to banging stuff around and on the ceiling to get her back, and that if she was a dude, he would have kicked her *ss, that doesn't hold any water with the police?

Bad situation for you and your sister, another reason I am glad I don't have any sisters, I would probably be in prison by now.

Hope this all turns out for the better, hopefully the condo gets her some money back and she finds a new community that is more animal friendly. Maybe also try turning on a radio or tv while she is gone..... just not loud enough for neighbors to hear but loud enough to hide some neighbors walking by.

[JonnyD]

So even though he admitted to banging stuff around and on the ceiling to get her back, and that if she was a dude, he would have kicked her *ss, that doesn't hold any water with the police?


I didn't know this, but both parties signed non-disclosure agreements before going into mediation. I guess it said something about neutral 3rd parties not being able to be called into court for anything said in the meeting, nor can they be used as witnesses. Something also about being an attempt to help facilitate communication between neighbors.

Believe me: I'm not sure I've ever been as pissed as I was last night after hearing all this. But really, there's nothing more to do that just walk away.

[Aphrodite]

Camera time, that has Audio 24/7 IMO would be idea can buy a card on fleabay fairly cheap and one or two camera's, and would point one are front door betting while she is gone he is doing stuff to excite her dog too justify the barking to others around her.

[grim]

You should give the neighbor my phone number i'll show him my basement and my table saw i am selling.

[Jmetz]

Whatever transpires that dude needs a beating.

[JonnyD]

You should give the neighbor my phone number i'll show him my basement and my table saw i am selling.

No woodchipper? FAIL!

[grim]

No woodchipper? FAIL!

Table saw is worst, you have to wait for the next limb to be taken away, its not persistent like a wood chipper.

[Jmetz]

Table saw is worst, you have to wait for the next limb to be taken away, its not persistent like a wood chipper.

No one likes a persistent wood chipper!

[grim]

No one likes a persistent wood chipper!

Would you rather me have used " continuous"?

[mxer]

As long as she's moving out, she should crank up the stereo while she's gone. Make sure she has a subwoofer.