Marines pissing on downed enemies

[Squisha]

I'm not outraged, should I be?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/pentagon-condemns-alleged-marine-misconduct-graphic-video-170756596.html

Kind of dumb to be recording these kinds of things, yes, but only because someone is going to take it out of context.

It's war for chrissake. It seems to have gotten too politically correct.

[Keyser Soze]

Only thing I see wrong here is the dumbass recorded it. Shit like this doesn't need to be in the news, it's been happening since the dawn of war. Fuckin retarded.

[Clovis]

Might as well have gone all out and dropped a deuce on their face.

I can't believe they said this may put the lives of other service men in danger, as if this alone will convince someone to become a combatant/terrorist.

[grim]

I didn't see R-kelli's name in their anywhere.

[asp_125]

War has become so PC. Their mistake was to video it. In the old days the conquerers raped their women, ate their babies, and marched into town with their enemies heads on a stick. If the video didn't exist the namby pamby press would not have made a big stink about it. Now that they have, the politicians are in damage control.

[Ezzzzy1]

Everything is all P.C. and the militaries knee jerk reaction to the public is just their way of saying "these troops shouldnt have taken a piss on the piece of shit Taliban fighters"

[Nooch]

I didn't see R-kelli's name in their anywhere.

:leghump:

[salsashark]

How many of these stories would not be stories if people would learn to put the camera down and STFU?!

Like ASP said... been going on a long time, will continue. You think they're not doing the same crap to our dead soldiers?

[Ezzzzy1]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/medal.jpg

[asp_125]

I remember when the news leaked out in Somalia where the body of the US airman was shown being dragged and kicked through the streets. Oh good gawd the outcry from the public here! War is ugly, people, HTFU.

[mdub]

it is in the Geneva Convention ...Chapter 11. Urination. 4th page, 6th paragraph...."shall not urinate on enemies if they are sleep or dead......" whoa it was P.C back then......

[#1Townie]

Yup can't say I really give a shit. To bad they recorded it.

[Fumet5uNo]

I'm not outraged, should I be?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/pentagon-condemns-alleged-marine-misconduct-graphic-video-170756596.html

Kind of dumb to be recording these kinds of things, yes, but only because someone is going to take it out of context.

It's war for chrissake. It seems to have gotten too politically correct.

Outraged .... No its come to be expected in "today's" armed forces.

[pauliep]

This is figuratively what will happen should we give President Karzai control of the Bagram prison but it will be Afghans pissing on Afghans.

(maybe not the best link to the related story, but here) http://www.gazettenet.com/2012/01/06/karzai-wants-afghan-control-over-us-prison

[jbnwc]

Nothing like making propaganda videos for our enemies. I'm not too upset about it, but at the same time one of the many things that make us different from our enemies is that we are better than them. -or at least we should be.

[#1Townie]

No its why we can't beat our enemy. We are the only ones playing by the rules.

[Keyser Soze]

Outraged .... No its come to be expected in "today's" armed forces.

"Today's" armed forces? You think this has never happened before?

[Captain Obvious]

Momma always said, behave like your actions are going to be put on the front of the news paper.

Pissing on fallen enemies, good idea? no.
As bad as severing heads? no.
Proper way to treat another person/body? no.
Should we behave in a fashion more civilized than the people we are fighting? Certainly.
Big deal? Well, to some absolutely, so filming only gives your detractors evidence.

[Captain Obvious]

It's war for chrissake. It seems to have gotten too politically correct.


It is no longer a war for the deceased. Now they are just desecrating fallen foes. They have already won by killing the enemies.

What do they gain by doing it, pissing off the enemies even more? Where is the benefit in that?

[Keyser Soze]

It is no longer a war for the deceased. Now they are just desecrating fallen foes. They have already won by killing the enemies.

What do they gain by doing it, pissing off the enemies even more? Where is the benefit in that?

I've never been in a situation where I've taken someone's life or had someone actively trying to take mine, but I can imagine it's pretty strenuous. Strenuous enough for people to act in ways they might not act under normal circumstances and make some illogical decisions.

[mdub]

those are probably the recruits they let in when they needed at the time...no high school diploma needed....

[Ghost]

Momma always said, behave like your actions are going to be put on the front of the news paper.

Pissing on fallen enemies, good idea? no.
As bad as severing heads? no.
Proper way to treat another person/body? no.
Should we behave in a fashion more civilized than the people we are fighting? Certainly.
Big deal? Well, to some absolutely, so filming only gives your detractors evidence.

+1

I think it reflects more poorly on us than it does anything to help our cause. Basically, it was just a stupid idea all around.

[Ezzzzy1]

those are probably the recruits they let in when they needed at the time...no high school diploma needed....

They are a sniper platoon... For what thats worth

[mdub]

and felons..automatic sniper.

[stubbicatt]

Let's see here... What do we do for a living ladies, "Kill! Kill! Kill!"

And pissing on a corpse is somehow deplorable when blowing them to smithereens in the first place is not only acceptable, but laudable.

Hm.

The Soviets used to mine the bodies so that when relatives came to retrieve them for burial it would take them out too. -- Now that is not cool.

[mdub]

even though war is hell....there is alot of hatred. no one should piss on another person living or dead. maybe for porn.....

[Slo]

Dumb idea yes.... agreed, but honestly, I dont give a flying f*ck, there was much worse things to deal with out there.

When I served, it's the media and politics that put everyone in danger, bad to see nothing has changed.

[Clovis]

I see the problem but I don't personally have a problem with it.

Who are we to sit back and judge when we're not over there actively being hunted. Road side bombs, snipers, death can come at any time.

[modette99]

Still better treatment then what they do to our troops.

[cptschlongenheimer]

I remember when the news leaked out in Somalia where the body of the US airman was shown being dragged and kicked through the streets. Oh good gawd the outcry from the public here! War is ugly, people, HTFU.

I was in Mogadishu that day and helped recover those men's bodies. Neither the media nor hollywood told the whole fucking story.

No human deserves this and no one has the right to mistreat the deceased, marine or not. Do unto others ring a fucking bell for anyone anymore?

[Slo]

Do unto others comes into play for me when I am home..... in a civilized world. Now I wouldn't piss on a dead body due to my personal beliefs, and I would tell anyone in my platoon how much of a dumbass they were if they did something similar.

But that's about as far as it would get.

[Ezzzzy1]

No human deserves this and no one has the right to mistreat the deceased, marine or not. Do unto others ring a fucking bell for anyone anymore?

What about people that like it? Maybe they liked it :dunno:

[mdub]

well the hoochies in Boulder likes it and get paid...not much but still making a lil bank...

[rforsythe]

The afghans aren't even making much stink about this, just our own military.

[cptschlongenheimer]

Do unto others comes into play for me when I am home..... in a civilized world. Now I wouldn't piss on a dead body due to my personal beliefs, and I would tell anyone in my platoon how much of a dumbass they were if they did something similar.

But that's about as far as it would get.

I had two occasions in which I felt it necessary to tell a fellow soldier (one a superior) they were in the wrong over how they treated civilians/pow's. Both nearly ended in fistfights.

One of them later thanked me for keeping him "from doing something so dishonorable". It's not always easy to do the right thing but it helps you look in the mirror.


What about people that like it? Maybe they liked it :dunno:

Well, then, I guess it's fine for them... ;)

[cptschlongenheimer]

The afghans aren't even making much stink about this, just our own military.

As they should.

Dishonorable actions such as these make all who serve look dishonorable.

[Captain Obvious]

Still better treatment then what they do to our troops.


You are correct. But shouldn't we as Americans, as a good person, as a decent human being of any nationality, try to set the bar as high as possible, and not use the "he did it first/worse" mentality?

That mentality is what has kept the Middle East in and out of war for hundreds, nay, thousands of years. That is also the mentality of children. Before anyone gets too worked up, I am not trying to imply anything about you, I am simply making a comparison in the attitude.

They still won. They are alive, the bodies on the ground are dead. What more do they have to take away from those people? Nothing, only cast poor light on themselves.

[Captain Obvious]

Do unto others comes into play for me when I am home..... in a civilized world. Now I wouldn't piss on a dead body due to my personal beliefs, and I would tell anyone in my platoon how much of a dumbass they were if they did something similar.

But that's about as far as it would get.

I agree with the first half, but big picture in mind means the second half is wrong. Clearly, it is going further.

And as cpt says, it puts all of our military in dishonor.

[Captain Obvious]

0
I've never been in a situation where I've taken someone's life or had someone actively trying to take mine, but I can imagine it's pretty strenuous. Strenuous enough for people to act in ways they might not act under normal circumstances and make some illogical decisions.

I have. And part of the training is to recognize the situation is no longer red/high/what ever name you have for it. And your actions need to reflect that. The amount of time it takes to shoot someone (assuming they killed the fallen) then walk over to them, let your buddies catch up, whip out your peter and begin to urinate, is plenty of time for the excitement of the combat to pass.

One of the best pieces of advise I ever received in any job came from my second mom who said "Once you have someone in handcuffs it is over. You have taken away their freedom, don't try to take away their dignity." FYI, That was preemptive advice, not a response to some action. Clearly this doesn't apply to when they try and kick you, but once you have them hogtied with a spit sack on, same thing. :)

[rforsythe]

As they should.

Dishonorable actions such as these make all who serve look dishonorable.

My point is, the afghans aren't calling for beheadings or killing whitey like they've done in years past. They've been oddly muted on the whole thing.

[Clovis]

What's the big deal??

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/22240_252948032209_252055212209_3149634_2422485_n. jpg

[Ezzzzy1]

Yeh, I dont see anything wrong with it...

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/Peeing_Illusion.jpg

[mdub]

:hump: oh yea....

[Fumet5uNo]

"Today's" armed forces? You think this has never happened before?

I know how it's been.

[Think]

No human deserves this and no one has the right to mistreat the deceased, marine or not. Do unto others ring a fucking bell for anyone anymore?
This. I haven't been in a firefight or anything similar in my life, but I really hope I conduct myself honorably if I find myself in this kind of situation. There is nothing honorable about pissing on a corpse and you can't justify it.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Might as well have gone all out and dropped a deuce on their face.

I can't believe they said this may put the lives of other service men in danger, as if this alone will convince someone to become a combatant/terrorist.
I'd have dropped the deuce on 'em!

[Fumet5uNo]

This. I haven't been in a firefight or anything similar in my life, but I really hope I conduct myself honorably if I find myself in this kind of situation. There is nothing honorable about pissing on a corpse and you can't justify it.

+10 your state of mind is right

[Frankie675]

I shit you not, there was a swarm of flying jellyfish attacking them! We thought that there was a chance we could save their lives....

[birchyboy]

I don't agree with what they did, but I also cannot put myself in their place since I never went to war. The news has been talking about court martials and jail time which I think is way out of line for what they did.

Was it wrong - yes. Worthy of discipline - yes. Worthy of possibly ruining the rest of their lives - no f'ing way.

[Keyser Soze]

I shit you not, there was a swarm of flying jellyfish attacking them! We thought that there was a chance we could save their lives....

They didn't want coyotes dragging the bodies off and eating them so they "masked" the scent with urine. Heck, they were doing them a favor! :lol:

[Clovis]

Welcome to politics and war... =/


I don't agree with what they did, but I also cannot put myself in their place since I never went to war. The news has been talking about court martials and jail time which I think is way out of line for what they did.

Was it wrong - yes. Worthy of discipline - yes. Worthy of possibly ruining the rest of their lives - no f'ing way.

[burnn88]

i dont care that they did it at all... just dont record yourself doing stuff like that cause it is going to be on the internet... guaranteed!

[dragos13]

I see the problem but I don't personally have a problem with it.

Who are we to sit back and judge when we're not over there actively being hunted. Road side bombs, snipers, death can come at any time.

+1 that is all that needs to be said from here.

In any career that involves death, you need to find a way to cope with it without going crazy. If you haven't been there, it's pretty hard to judge.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I think we should have poured pig shit on them all. Take THAT to allah!

[cptschlongenheimer]

I have been there. This is still inexcusable.

How many of you who this this is OK or "no big deal" actually have served?

Those of you who haven't need to understand that when you become a soldier/marine/airman/sailor you take an oath and make a vow.

You vow to serve and protect the constitution and the country.
You swear to perform all of your duties to the best of your ability.
And you promise, to your brothers and sisters in uniform, to your fathers and grandfathers who wore it before you did, to the citizens of this nation and to yourself, that you will always behave in an honorable manner. Especially while wearing that uniform.

Any who have served should be pissed about having our honor tarnished by this.

To be a soldier is to hold yourself to a higher standard and to expect others to hold you to that higher standard. If you cannot do that, you are unfit to be one of us.

[Captain Obvious]

I served. Not what I want to see my brothers doing.

[Ghost]

I think we should have poured pig shit on them all. Take THAT to allah!

You could always go over there and try it...

[mdub]

:no:

[Frankie675]

I have served. Almost 3 of my 4 years was spent in the war with the Chairforce. Nothing I wouldn't expect from Marines.

[grim]

I have served. Almost 3 of my 4 years was spent in the war with the Chairforce. Nothing I wouldn't expect from Marines.

+1 I served in the navy and was in Afghanistan for 2 months the marines do some dumb shit.

[Ezzzzy1]

Hi, um... THEY FUCKING FLEW PLANES INTO THE TRADE CENTERS! Maybe some people took that a little personal and when they could piss on one of them they did?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/piss.jpg

[laspariahs]

If you want to be seen as the savior of the world you need to act like it. Yes, I have little doubt that video of marines pissing on their dead would make people want to go kill Americans. How would you feel if Americans perhaps your wife, husband, brother, sister, etc were being pissed on.....

They are professional soldiers perhaps they should act like professionals.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Hi, um... THEY FUCKING FLEW PLANES INTO THE TRADE CENTERS! Maybe some people took that a little personal and when they could piss on one of them they did?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/piss.jpg
AWESOME! It's funny, they capture soldiers and innocent civilians and cut their heads off on video and there's not much said about it because, hey, they're just muslims acting according to their religion, right? Yet a couple of Patriotic American Marines piss on some sand-scum and the whole world whines about it? SRSLY???

[Matheo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcMeth2zDc8








But in all seriousness. I could care less (former infantry Marine myself)
In todays society we have forgotten what "War" is. The people passing judgment on the Marines are safe and comfortable. They don't live at the business end of a 'broken bottle' day after day like these Marines do. I think them recording it was stupid on their end, for sure. But the actual act of urinating on the dead.... Honestly, i have zero issue with it. We are fighting an enemy who is completely lacking any moral/ethical compass what so ever. This is NOT a gentleman's game of chess we are playing here folks. War is war.. Plain and simple. But, unfortunately, this has become a politically guided endeavor, with all the wrong people making most of the major decision in what is or isn't right and wrong during these times.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcMeth2zDc8








But in all seriousness. I could care less (former infantry Marine myself)
In todays society we have forgotten what "War" is. The people passing judgment on the Marines are safe and comfortable. They don't live at the business end of a 'broken bottle' day after day like these Marines do. I think them recording it was stupid on their end, for sure. But the actual act of urinating on the dead.... Honestly, i have zero issue with it. We are fighting an enemy who is completely lacking any moral/ethical compass what so ever. This is NOT a gentleman's game of chess we are playing here folks. War is war.. Plain and simple. But, unfortunately, this has become a politically guided endeavor, with all the wrong people making most of the major decision in what is or isn't right and wrong during these times.
AWESOME post! Treat them like they treat us in war. 'Nuff said.

[Zenshu]

In the last 10 years I have spent more time in combat than in the comfort of my home with my family...The only problem I see is that they were stupid enough to record it. Personally I would like to see all of the assholes impaled on spikes like good ole Vlad did to the turkish army. After the shit I saw and dealt with from those bastards, I agree no human deserves to be pissed on, but as far as I am concerned they are less than human. So yeah, my opinion the only thing they did wrong was create evidence.(as long as someone was providing security)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

In the last 10 years I have spent more time in combat than in the comfort of my home with my family...The only problem I see is that they were stupid enough to record it. Personally I would like to see all of the assholes impaled on spikes like good ole Vlad did to the turkish army. After the shit I saw and dealt with from those bastards, I agree no human deserves to be pissed on, but as far as I am concerned they are less than human. So yeah, my opinion the only thing they did wrong was create evidence.(as long as someone was providing security)
Hey, it worked for Vlad! :)

[Drano]

it is in the Geneva Convention ...Chapter 11. Urination. 4th page, 6th paragraph...."shall not urinate on enemies if they are sleep or dead......" whoa it was P.C back then......

There it is, an order. No gray area, no room for justification. I served and this sickens me. Our military is a volunteer force. It's not comprised of draftees, conscripts, or death row inmates. When we swore our oaths, we did so willingly, and vowed to obey the lawful orders given to us. These men don't deserve to wear the uniform and I hope that through their court-marshals they come to realize the stain they have left on their brothers-in-arms, their families, and their country. What a disgrace.

[Matheo]

There it is, an order. No gray area, no room for justification. I served and this sickens me. Our military is a volunteer force. It's not comprised of draftees, conscripts, or death row inmates. When we swore our oaths, we did so willingly, and vowed to obey the lawful orders given to us. These men don't deserve to wear the uniform and I hope that through their court-marshals they come to realize the stain they have left on their brothers-in-arms, their families, and their country. What a disgrace.

I understand the first part...

But are you serious about them not deserving to wear the uniform, and you hoping for court marshals....... I could understand if they were raping and killing innocent women/children. But i respectfully COMPLETELY disagree about them not rating the uniform, and I think in no way shape or form does this merit a court marshal.

*edit*
Out of curiosity, what branch and MOS?

[Nick_Ninja]

I understand the first part...

But are you serious about them not deserving to wear the uniform, and you hoping for court marshals....... I could understand if they were raping and killing innocent women/children. But i respectfully COMPLETELY disagree about them not rating the uniform, and I think in no way shape or form does this merit a court marshal.

*edit*
Out of curiosity, what branch and MOS?

We are a society of laws. Break the law and you deserve to be court marshaled.
Period. :roll:

[Drano]

I understand the first part...

But are you serious about them not deserving to wear the uniform, and you hoping for court marshals....... I could understand if they were raping and killing innocent women/children. But i respectfully COMPLETELY disagree about them not rating the uniform, and I think in no way shape or form does this merit a court marshal.

*edit*
Out of curiosity, what branch and MOS?

Absolutely, the consequences are that harsh, and regardless, violation of a direct order, or breaking laws set forth by the Geneva Convention are punishable by court marshal which could result in penalties that are as minor as reduction in rank to as severe as being shot for treason during war time. When you are wearing that uniform, you had best be loyal to it. Disobeying ANY lawful order, or violating the Geneva Convention is unquestionable disloyalty. It demonstrates a lack of respect for the laws they swore to uphold and the uniform they chose to wear. Those of us in uniform know that there are times when orders are to be questioned. This was not of those times.

I served from 2004-2008 with the USAF at RAF Lakenheath, UK. I was a ground radio and airfield systems maintainer.

[Ezzzzy1]

I will only be listening to comments from people that have gone to war (as in, been shot at while carrying 80lb packs). Anyone saying what should be done and what laws should have been followed and how classless it was and blablabla... You werent there. You dont know how it changes a man - you know, not seeing your child, loosing your father, missing your wife and to do it all for these talie-banie fuck tards? Im sure it aint easy.

Even if you were enlisted during war times, there IS a difference between what you did and what they did! YOU.DONT.KNOW.SHIT. and AMERICA IS NOT AS NOBEL AS YOU THINK IT IS!

[Nick_Ninja]

I will only be listening to comments from people that have gone to war (as in, been shot at while carrying 80lb packs). Anyone saying what should be done and what laws should have been followed and how classless it was and blablabla... You werent there. You dont know how it changes a man - you know, not seeing your child, loosing your father, missing your wife and to do it all for these talie-banie fuck tards? Im sure it aint easy.

Even if you were enlisted during war times, there IS a difference between what you did and what they did! YOU.DONT.KNOW.SHIT. and AMERICA IS NOT AS NOBEL AS YOU THINK IT IS!

GAWD HELP US :roll:

[TransNone13]

Outraged .... No its come to be expected in "today's" armed forces.


Really? Yeah got, and I agree that there are many dirt bags in the armed forces but certainly not all. Awesome news? Force shaping, the Army in particular is chaptering these individuals left and right. I can only hope to see an improvement, but it is coming.

[Captain Obvious]

And part of the issue with some of the people in the military is that over the last 10 years standards have dropped. Both IQ/ASVAB scores as well as the types of arrest history you can have these days.

[RajunCajun]

I completely respect the horror and tribulations that our brave military face in their service to this county. I don’t try to judge what a man should feel after seeing the things and having done the things they’ve done to survive. I haven't been there or been in any kind of battle or served. That, however doesn't change my right to an opinion or respect for the laws that we are supposed to follow. So this is my opinion:
1. I don't care if their bodies were pissed on, shit on, puked on, used for target practice or set on fire. I'd like to do all of the above, myself. A U.S. soldier doing it, well, that’s a bit of a different story.
2. It was filmed. Personally, I'd take the guy filming it out back and kick the shit out of him for being an absolute fucktard!!!
3. Honor and a code of conduct was compromised. I couldn't imagine having anything to do with tarnishing the name and uniform of those fighting for my freedom. I think it's a huge betrayal of the uniform and of those that wore it and bled in it before them.
4. Punishment... hmmmm, I can't really say what should happen to these guys. I think court marshal is extreme but not unwarranted. I'd say that they should be penalized through rank or something like that because they did F*Up and should be held accountable for the shitstorm that they brought on their uniform.

Soldiers are held to a higher standard and should be! They swore an oath and no matter how shitty the shit gets, they are still men, bound by their own honor, and should act accordingly. When it comes down to it, you and only you are reponsible for your actions, so F*ing act like it!!

[veteran_80]

I will only be listening to comments from people that have gone to war (as in, been shot at while carrying 80lb packs). Anyone saying what should be done and what laws should have been followed and how classless it was and blablabla... You werent there. You dont know how it changes a man - you know, not seeing your child, loosing your father, missing your wife and to do it all for these talie-banie fuck tards? Im sure it aint easy.

Even if you were enlisted during war times, there IS a difference between what you did and what they did! YOU.DONT.KNOW.SHIT. and AMERICA IS NOT AS NOBEL AS YOU THINK IT IS!

Alright I'll chime in as I think I may qualify. Was in the Army. Did 2 tours in Iraq as an 11b (infantry). Did 12 months in Baghdad, got extended and did an additional 4 mo south of there in musayib and iskandaria for my first tour. Did 12 mo in ar ramadi my second.

My job description was to " make contact with. Close with. And kill or capture the enemy. ( no pissing orders in there period).

That said, do I have a problem with it? Yes... For the simple fact they recorded the dumbshit! That in turn will be turned into enemy propaganda and creates MORE FUCKIN ENEMIES that kill our troops. We should be eliminating enemies not creating more.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

That said, do I have a problem with it? Yes... For the simple fact they recorded the dumbshit! That in turn will be turned into enemy propaganda and creates MORE FUCKIN ENEMIES that kill our troops. We should be eliminating enemies not creating more.
We should just then eliminate them.......FASTER AND WITH MORE EFFICIENCY! :)

[Drano]

I will only be listening to comments from people that have gone to war (as in, been shot at while carrying 80lb packs). Anyone saying what should be done and what laws should have been followed and how classless it was and blablabla... You werent there. You dont know how it changes a man - you know, not seeing your child, loosing your father, missing your wife and to do it all for these talie-banie fuck tards? Im sure it aint easy.

Even if you were enlisted during war times, there IS a difference between what you did and what they did! YOU.DONT.KNOW.SHIT. and AMERICA IS NOT AS NOBEL AS YOU THINK IT IS!

If this was directed at me, you're partially right. I was never deployed, and I never saw combat. I know nothing of these things. I haven't been shot at or suffered the types of stresses associated with it. It sounds like you, and many others here have. I can only say God bless you because I truly respect the sacrifices you had to make to do that job.

However, there are a few things that I do know. I know what it means to be a man, to serve honorably, to have integrity, to be disciplined, and to keep my word. Now if you're saying that one trip to the sandbox and you can forget all that, then I say it sounds too good to be true. Why? Because it isn't true. There are thousands of others in the same environment who didn't feel the need to desecrate the corpses of their enemies, regardless of how angry they were, or how badly they may have wanted to. So I stand by what I said.

Does that mean that I am so blind, or naive to the realities to the aftermath of warfare? Even the so-called "greatest generation" picked the gold teeth and stole possessions off of their fallen enemies. It's nothing new, and it has happened for thousands of years. I don't personally agree with that type of behavior. It does disgust me, and you may never understand why, but that's a difference in upbringing I suppose.

Here's the real reason it makes me angry. Following Vietnam, honorable servicemen returned home to hatred and disrespect. Why? Because the American Media told stories about the brutality of American Troops towards the enemy and innocent civilians. In doing so, Americans lost respect for their military. What the Viet Cong were doing to our troops, and their own people, was far worse than anything any American had done there, but the media didn't care about that. They only cared about what we were doing, and as a result every branch of the military suffered shame and dishonor that they didn't deserve. It shouldn't have happened.

Fast forward to today where nearly everyone potentially has a camera, and the stories can get out fast. I agree, urinating on the dead is pretty minor compared to other things that can, and do, happen in a combat environment. It's still a break down of discipline, and to make matters worse, they filmed it. We cannot afford to let stories like this diminish the opinion the public has of its military forces. I would certainly weep if there ever came a time when our honorable military men and women had to suffer the same injustices as our Vietnam vets. Sadly, the way it happens is when a small group of weak individuals set aside their training, and their values, to satisfy some foolish, and selfish desire.

P.S. @Ezzzzy, last I checked, I don't know you personally. I've never met you nor have you met me. Do me a favor and try to be a little more courteous to those that you don't know. Even if it is an internet forum, you can do better. There's no need for the insults or the hostility. Thanks.

[Ezzzzy1]

If this was directed at me, you're partially right. I was never deployed, and I never saw combat. I know nothing of these things. I haven't been shot at or suffered the types of stresses associated with it. It sounds like you, and many others here have. I can only say God bless you because I truly respect the sacrifices you had to make to do that job.

However, there are a few things that I do know. I know what it means to be a man, to serve honorably, to have integrity, to be disciplined, and to keep my word. Now if you're saying that one trip to the sandbox and you can forget all that, then I say it sounds too good to be true. Why? Because it isn't true. There are thousands of others in the same environment who didn't feel the need to desecrate the corpses of their enemies, regardless of how angry they were, or how badly they may have wanted to. So I stand by what I said.

Does that mean that I am so blind, or naive to the realities to the aftermath of warfare? Even the so-called "greatest generation" picked the gold teeth and stole possessions off of their fallen enemies. It's nothing new, and it has happened for thousands of years. I don't personally agree with that type of behavior. It does disgust me, and you may never understand why, but that's a difference in upbringing I suppose.

Here's the real reason it makes me angry. Following Vietnam, honorable servicemen returned home to hatred and disrespect. Why? Because the American Media told stories which depicted the brutality of American Troops to the enemy and also to innocent civilians. What the Viet Cong were doing to their own people was far worse than anything any American had done there, but the media didn't care about that. They only cared about what we were doing, and as a result every branch of the military suffered shame and dishonor that they didn't deserve, and shouldn't have happened.

Fast forward to today where nearly everyone potentially has a camera, and the stories can get out fast. I agree, urinating on the dead is pretty minor compared to other things that can, and do, happen in a combat environment. It's still a break down of discipline, and to make matters worse, they filmed it. We cannot afford to let stories like this diminish the opinion the public has of its military forces. I would certainly weep if there ever came a time when our honorable military men and women had to suffer the same injustices as our Vietnam vets. Sadly, the way it happens is when a small group of weak individuals set aside their training, and their values, to satisfy some foolish, and selfish desire.

P.S. @Ezzzzy, last I checked, I don't know you personally. I've never met you nor have you met me. Do me a favor and try to be a little more courteous to those that you don't know. Even if it is an internet forum, you can do better. There's no need for the insults or the hostility. Thanks.

Um... Well... It wasnt directed at you and while I do not know you (probably part of the reason you took offense to what I said) I will say that in part I was being sarcastic and the rest of it, well, is what it is.

I dont care how anyone was brought up or even that you think that thousands of others didnt do what these guys did you were not there, you simply do not know. So again, why anyone would say what they would or wouldnt do is irrelevant.

Either way, im sorry if you thought I was being rude.

[Drano]

No worries. I apologize for thinking that you were directing hostility at me.

[Zenshu]

And part of the issue with some of the people in the military is that over the last 10 years standards have dropped. Both IQ/ASVAB scores as well as the types of arrest history you can have these days.

Not for the last 3 years they haven't. Over the last 3 years the standards for qualifying for enlistment have become the most strict they have ever been....This is coming from someone who KNOWS what the qualifications for enlistment are today and who is constantly being told by those who have been working in the recruiting field for 15-20 years that the standards have never been this high in the history of the armed forces....well that's true for the Army and Navy, not sure about the other two as I have no contact with them.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Yes, it would be nice in the fantasy world of everybody just got a long and soldiers never made mistakes and, in fact, were never even needed. BUT, people in general are only human, and the stress these guys are under fighting this vile, cowardly enemy is tremendous, and things like this are going to happen. Period. Where they made the mistake is documenting it. The enemy was dead, and I'm sure would have done the same to them or far worse, so, I don't really have a major issue with the act itself. Give 'em a slap on the wrist, tell 'em not to do it again or they will be punished, and send 'em back out with a wink and a smile. ;)

[RajunCajun]

Um... Well... It wasnt directed at you and while I do not know you (probably part of the reason you took offense to what I said) I will say that in part I was being sarcastic and the rest of it, well, is what it is.

I dont care how anyone was brought up or even that you think that thousands of others didnt do what these guys did you were not there, you simply do not know. So again, why anyone would say what they would or wouldnt do is irrelevant.

Either way, im sorry if you thought I was being rude.

What you would or would not do, can often be completely independent and unrelated to doing what is right or what is wrong. The strength of honor is more often shown in times of hardship and adversity than times of peace. That is the issue,,, anything else is an excuse….

Everyone has been in some sort of extreme stress in their lives. I've never been in combat, per say, but I have had my life and the life of a loved one threatened and resorted to charging 5 huge guys with a knife, prepared to kill every one of them if they touched my girl. Others as well as myself have suffered loss of family, job or significant other and may have found it nearly too much to bear. That isn’t the same as getting shot at, on a daily basis, and watching your brothers killed. That, I’m smart enough to realize. Honor is still honor at the end of the day, no matter what “stresses” you might be under.

[Captain Obvious]

Not for the last 3 years they haven't. Over the last 3 years the standards for qualifying for enlistment have become the most strict they have ever been....This is coming from someone who KNOWS what the qualifications for enlistment are today and who is constantly being told by those who have been working in the recruiting field for 15-20 years that the standards have never been this high in the history of the armed forces....well that's true for the Army and Navy, not sure about the other two as I have no contact with them.

great, so if you know the standards for the last 15-20 years, you know that the standards were lowered, esp during the late 90s into the 2000s. Or are you not debating that, only saying that for the last 3 years, the military has corrected the problem? 3 yers of good certainly doesn't offset 10+ years of bad.

[Zenshu]

great, so if you know the standards for the last 15-20 years,you know that the standards were lowered, esp during the late 90s into the 2000s. Or are you not debating that, only saying that for the last 3 years, the military has corrected the problem? 3 yers of good certainly doesn't offset 10+ years of bad.

The standards were definitely lowered in the late 90's but they were no where near the lowest they had ever been, even at their lowest point in the last 10 years they didn't even almost reach the lowest point. So the standards for enlistment are no excuse for anything that happens wrong or not.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

great, so if you know the standards for the last 15-20 years, you know that the standards were lowered, esp during the late 90s into the 2000s. Or are you not debating that, only saying that for the last 3 years, the military has corrected the problem? 3 yers of good certainly doesn't offset 10+ years of bad.
I'll say the standards are lower now. I mean, look at our commander in Chief! :)

[Horsman]

This is tough to talk about unless you were there. What really happened before this incident??? Did they just lose a good friend because of these guys? It is easy to say you'll do one thing and end up doing something totally different. We are all human - we all make mistakes and none of us are perfect. Definely would like the see the tape 30 minutes before this went down - I bet it paints a totally different picture.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Bottom line, we are the invaders. It is their duty to fight us. Can you imagine someone invading us and we just turn in our weapons? It would never happen.

Sure, maybe the marines just lost someone, but they killed multiple "insurgents" so they essentially won. Looks like very unsportsmanlike conduct IMO. 15 yard penalty.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

This is tough to talk about unless you were there. What really happened before this incident??? Did they just lose a good friend because of these guys? It is easy to say you'll do one thing and end up doing something totally different. We are all human - we all make mistakes and none of us are perfect. Definely would like the see the tape 30 minutes before this went down - I bet it paints a totally different picture.
Exactly. Like I said, I don't have an issue with it. I'm sure those fuckers deserved it......

[Nick_Ninja]

Exactly. Like I said, I don't have an issue with it. I'm sure those fuckers deserved it......

Wrong Frank. They deserved a bullet (or six) and nothing more.

[Ezzzzy1]

Wrong Frank. They deserved a bullet (or six) and nothing more.

Shooting someone 5 extra times isnt just as disrespectful?

[Nick_Ninja]

Shooting someone 5 extra times isnt just as disrespectful?

No.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Shooting someone 5 extra times isnt just as disrespectful?

Sometimes it takes a few to stop a BG.

Anyway, I like football metaphors. You can't piss on a QB after you sack him without a 15 yard penalty afterward.

[Ezzzzy1]

No.

Both actions come from the same place. Lack of self control. Shooting someone like that can get you court marshalled as well. If it was recorded in the same manner (a video of you shooting someone repeatedly while laughing with your buddies) you would be going to jail my friend. More so, you are not even stressed about the day to day activity of war and you would make that statement? I guess it just goes to show that no one, even the ones that think they are perfect, knows what they would do under a lot of these situations/stressors.



Sometimes it takes a few to stop a BG.

Anyway, I like football metaphors. You can't piss on a QB after you sack him without a 15 yard penalty afterward.

The problem with the metaphor is that the QB is still alive. If you were to shoot him then piss on him I dont think you would get the penalty. :lol:

[rforsythe]

Both actions come from the same place. Lack of self control. Shooting someone like that can get you court marshalled as well. If it was recorded in the same manner (a video of you shooting someone repeatedly while laughing with your buddies) you would be going to jail my friend. More so, you are not even stressed about the day to day activity of war and you would make that statement? I guess it just goes to show that no one, even the ones that think they are perfect, knows what they would do under a lot of these situations/stressors.

I'm unfamiliar with military law. You would actually go to jail for repeatedly shooting someone *after* they were already dead? For what crime? Certainly not for killing them again...

[CaptGoodvibes]

I'm unfamiliar with military law. You would actually go to jail for repeatedly shooting someone *after* they were already dead? For what crime? Certainly not for killing them again...

If you're CCW downtown and are accosted by an armed assailant, you can keep shooting until they are stopped. If the investigation finds you kept shooting them after they were dead, you are going to prison. AFAIK

[rforsythe]

If you're CCW downtown and are accosted by an armed assailant, you can keep shooting until they are stopped. If the investigation finds you kept shooting them after they were dead, you are going to prison. AFAIK

That has nothing to do with military law as you're describing a civilian situation in the middle of a city, but still - for what crime?

[Ezzzzy1]

I'm unfamiliar with military law. You would actually go to jail for repeatedly shooting someone *after* they were already dead? For what crime? Certainly not for killing them again...

Im no lawyer but this is what I know:

There are a few things wrong with it. Excessive force is the first law broken and is stated as so.."Force should be used in only the minimum amount needed to achieve a legitimate purpose." Read into it however (guess thats what lawyers are for) but as it was stated from Ninja he hung himself with his own words. He stated that "they deserved" it and this, in my opinion, would be simple to prove.

Second, it can be used to compound a situation. Lets say that now that we know Ninja thinks "they deserve" it his comments or statements could be used to prove other crimes like pre-meditation and hate.

These laws are similar to ones in the U.S. but are different as well. Here the basis of laws like this is our Constitution whereas the worlds laws are a collection of modified rules from around the world.



If you're CCW downtown and are accosted by an armed assailant, you can keep shooting until they are stopped. If the investigation finds you kept shooting them after they were dead, you are going to prison. AFAIK

Wrong, if they can prove that you kept shooting after they were stopped you can go to jail. Same as if someone breaks into your house.

Id bet that you could probably shoot someone 3-4 times in a defense type of situation before questions started to surface. :dunno:

[Nick_Ninja]

Both actions come from the same place. Lack of self control. Shooting someone like that can get you court marshalled as well. If it was recorded in the same manner (a video of you shooting someone repeatedly while laughing with your buddies) you would be going to jail my friend. More so, you are not even stressed about the day to day activity of war and you would make that statement? I guess it just goes to show that no one, even the ones that think they are perfect, knows what they would do under a lot of these situations/stressors.




The problem with the metaphor is that the QB is still alive. If you were to shoot him then piss on him I dont think you would get the penalty. :lol:

If I'm ever in a shoot or be shot situation and I have a butt-load of ammo -- you bet the asswipe shooting at me is gonna get all of it until either they stop or I run out. I doubt I'd wait to find out just after one shot --- unless, of course, I could verify that their head was missing from their torso.

BTW -- I'm 4-F. Have been my entire life. I have never have been in the military and I really don't give a rats ass what our boys do to cultures that we are engaged with in combat actions. I do support the Geneva Convention and the rule of law and our troops through tax deductions -- but that's it. Period.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Bottom line, we are the invaders. It is their duty to fight us. Can you imagine someone invading us and we just turn in our weapons? It would never happen.

Sure, maybe the marines just lost someone, but they killed multiple "insurgents" so they essentially won. Looks like very unsportsmanlike conduct IMO. 15 yard penalty.
Wrong. We are not invaders, no more than we were "invaders" when we liberated UE form the Nazis. Perhaps we should have let Hitler continue to make kindling of the Jews? The difference is that back then Americans were Patriotic instead of schniveling Anti-Americans.

I agree with why we went there, I have issues with Bush over the fact that we didn't go over there with enough "boots on the ground" to wipe out any insurgency before it even started. And, I have no doubt that was him trying to pacify the pacifists instead of listening to his military advisors. I also have an issue with tha fact that we should have left long ago after it became clear that these idiots were simply bent on blowing each other and innocent civilians up in the "endless" war between sunnis and shiites instead of rebuilding their country and acting like a civilized society.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Wrong. We are not invaders, no more than we were "invaders" when we liberated UE form the Nazis. Perhaps we should have let Hitler continue to make kindling of the Jews? The difference is that back then Americans were Patriotic instead of schniveling Anti-Americans.

I agree with why we went there, I have issues with Bush over the fact that we didn't go over there with enough "boots on the ground" to wipe out any insurgency before it even started. And, I have no doubt that was him trying to pacify the pacifists instead of listening to his military advisors. I also have an issue with tha fact that we should have left long ago after it became clear that these idiots were simply bent on blowing each other and innocent civilians up in the "endless" war between sunnis and shiites instead of rebuilding their country and acting like a civilized society.

You're wrong Frank. Germany was an aggressor that had captured most of Europe and Northern Africa. In stark contrast, Afghanistan and Iraq had not invaded ANYONE before we had "boots on their ground." That you cannot see the difference is what's wrong with the world.

I'm not saying there wasn't an issue that demanded our attention. But we invaded their sovereign soil without any doubt. And just like it would be our patriotic duty to repel any other nation that would dare to invade our country, it is the Iraqi and Afghan duty to try and repel us from their soil. Unless you think it would be proper for China to invade us and impose their form of government upon us - just because they might have a different idea of how things ought to be, how can you possibly disagree with what I've just posted?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

You're wrong Frank. Germany was an aggressor that had captured most of Europe and Northern Africa. In stark contrast, Afghanistan and Iraq had not invaded ANYONE before we had "boots on their ground." That you cannot see the difference is what's wrong with the world.

I'm not saying there wasn't an issue that demanded our attention. But we invaded their sovereign soil without any doubt. And just like it would be our patriotic duty to repel any other nation that would dare to invade our country, it is the Iraqi and Afghan duty to try and repel us from their soil. Unless you think it would be proper for China to invade us and impose their form of government upon us - just because they might have a different idea of how things ought to be, how can you possibly disagree with what I've just posted?
Germany didn't invade us. Iraq didn't invade anyone? SRSLY? Remember when they invaded Kuwait? Ok, so not THIS time, but the guy was out of control. I don't see why people bitch about it when it was the most effective war ever fought in terms of our casualties, vs the hundreds of thousands killed in WWII, yet hardly anyone bitched about that, and it was the same type of dictator, just not as efficient as Hitler. It is NOT their duty to do repel us, we HELPED them. All the soldiers I know who've actually BEEN there said the people themselves were thankful we ousted Saddam, it's the insurgents who've fucked everything up. Well, the Chinese WOULD be trying to oust a dicktator if they invaded us...... :)

[CaptGoodvibes]

All the soldiers I know who've actually BEEN there said the people themselves were thankful we ousted Saddam, it's the insurgents who've fucked everything up. I'm 100% certain the insurgents would disagree.

Question: French underground vs. Vichy France... who was right? Trick question. It depends on perspective.

Regarding our defeat of Germany(with immense help from the USSR), you know we were asked for help by GB for two years. We provided supplies. Then, Japan attacked us and Germany officially declared war on us. Why do I have to give you a history lesson?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I'm 100% certain the insurgents would disagree.

Question: French underground vs. Vichy France... who was right? Trick question. It depends on perspective.

Regarding our defeat of Germany(with immense help from the USSR), you know we were asked for help by GB for two years. We provided supplies. Then, Japan attacked us and Germany officially declared war on us. Why do I have to give you a history lesson?
Germany never invaded us. Why was it ok to start a much bigger and FAR costlier war in both $$ and lives to throw out a dictator in Germany, but it's not ok to do it in Eye-Rack? A: The people's attitude has gone from Patriotic to Anti-American. ;)

[Zenshu]

I'm 100% certain the insurgents would disagree.

Question: French underground vs. Vichy France... who was right? Trick question. It depends on perspective.

Regarding our defeat of Germany(with immense help from the USSR), you know we were asked for help by GB for two years. We provided supplies. Then, Japan attacked us and Germany officially declared war on us. Why do I have to give you a history lesson?

Your right in the aspect that the insurgents would disagree but does the fact that they think that having a tyranical leader who would regulary slaughter hundreds of innocent civilians just because he felt like it was better than having a bunch of non-muslim infidels running around the city make the fact that the majority of the average citizen was happy that the US came in and took down Saddam and in fact were waiting for us to do it since Desert Storm any less true? And as far as Afghanistan....The world Trade center...that is close enough to an invasion in my book to count them as the invading army who are being pushed back.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Just to be clear, I'm not defending our enemy. I'm simply trying to apply a bit of logic into the discussion. I'm not comfortable with spin or outright lies to get my way. I would expect the same from my government and military. I hope you guys feel the same. Frank is exempted because everything he says online is spin. :p

[Ezzzzy1]

Vibes.... Logic and war dont go hand in hand man...

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The majority of the PEOPLE were happy we were there, the insurgents are not in any way shape or form "freedom fighters", merely terrorists. They have no plan to rebuild their country. In fact, since most of them are not even FROM iran, but simply came there with the hopes of killing Americans and their hated sunnis/shiites (whichever side they were on), it isn't even their country. True "Freedom Fighters" were people like George Washington and his army, built on forming a free country, not these vermin.

[CaptGoodvibes]

The majority of the PEOPLE were happy we were there, the insurgents are not in any way shape or form "freedom fighters", merely terrorists. They have no plan to rebuild their country. In fact, since most of them are not even FROM iran, but simply came there with the hopes of killing Americans and their hated sunnis/shiites (whichever side they were on), it isn't even their country. True "Freedom Fighters" were people like George Washington and his army, built on forming a free country, not these vermin.

Have you ever read a British account of the American Revolution?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Have you ever read a British account of the American Revolution?
Why? We created a better country, in line with what the Founding Fathers account of the history was, so why would I want to read a book by some bitter losers? That'd be like reading Hitler's memoirs about losing the war if he'd lived. I'm sure he would have a perfectly good reason for roasting all the Jews and gypsies and Freemasons. :)

[CaptGoodvibes]

Because history is interesting. The war didn't spring out of nowhere. It wasn't about tea or tax or representation. That is the spin created to get 27% of the people onboard. I'm glad we are a "free" nation aside from all the control, but history is interesting nonetheless.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Because history is interesting. The war didn't spring out of nowhere. It wasn't about tea or tax or representation. That is the spin created to get 27% of the people onboard. I'm glad we are a "free" nation aside from all the control, but history is interesting nonetheless.
I mean, it'd be interesting in an anectodal way, but, I think it's beyond clear it all happened like it was written, and for the reasons cited. Otherwise, why would all those people have flocked to America?

[CaptGoodvibes]

The events of the war are well documented and widely taught in detail in school. The events of the 50 years leading up to the war are also well documented but typically brushed over in a single lecture. Critical thinking is an individual responsibility.

[Nick_Ninja]

The events of the war are well documented and widely taught in detail in school. The events of the 50 years leading up to the war are also well documented but typically brushed over in a single lecture. Critical thinking is an individual responsibility.

To use a quote from my good friend who just passed on this last week -- "Everything is simple to the illiterate.".

[RajunCajun]

To use a quote from my good friend who just passed on this last week -- "Everything is simple to the illiterate.".

Sorry to hear that, buddy!! RIP.....

[CaptGoodvibes]

To use a quote from my good friend who just passed on this last week -- "Everything is simple to the illiterate.".

Sorry to hear about your friend. :(

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

The events of the war are well documented and widely taught in detail in school. The events of the 50 years leading up to the war are also well documented but typically brushed over in a single lecture. Critical thinking is an individual responsibility.
I hate that buzzword. That is the most overused term ever, generally used for pure snob appeal by the self-proclaimed "intellectuals". C'mon Morgan, you're better than that bro. Everything people do in life is determined by "critical thinking". We decide to have another beer or not depending on the data we have on how many beers we've had, how far we have to drive, whether they were Ten-Fiddy's or not.

We learned enough for me to believe we did the right thing, for the right reasons, at pretty much the right time in forming our country. The insurgents, are NOT doing it. I read an article a few years back where the author, a psychologist detailed how it wasn't about any "cause" anymore, that that was just what they told the green new recruits. No, it's just all about the killing, the blowing up of things and people. They're simply cowardly, sadistic, murderous, assholes. They don't want to form a country, they just want someone to fight and kill. Vicious and unthinking, like a sheep dog that has gotten a taste of blood. And, like those dogs, they just need to be put down.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

To use a quote from my good friend who just passed on this last week -- "Everything is simple to the illiterate.".
Sorry to hear it. Anyone I know? RIP to 'em, Godspeed, and best wishes and condolences to all their family and friends.

[CaptGoodvibes]

I hate that buzzword. That is the most overused term ever, generally used for pure snob appeal by the self-proclaimed "intellectuals". C'mon Morgan, you're better than that bro. Everything people do in life is determined by "critical thinking". We decide to have another beer or not depending on the data we have on how many beers we've had, how far we have to drive, whether they were Ten-Fiddy's or not.

Critical thinking, as in the required course taught in university to graduate, is not as simple as selecting a beer. Thank you for proving my point.

[Zenshu]

Either way you look at either point of view our country is in the toilet anyway so....is it too late to invite britain back?...and before anyone starts crying foul please let me know how a country where a bunch of people who did something stupid on a whim while fighting the countries wars are going to be burned at the stake and have their entire lives ruined while people are protected by the federal courts in their "right" to crash those same men and womens funerals waving signs and cheering for their deaths while their families try to say their last goodbyes is a "decent" country...I am ashamed by the fact that I am a soldier for this failure of a country at this point.

[Ezzzzy1]

Either way you look at either point of view our country is in the toilet anyway so....is it too late to invite britain back?...and before anyone starts crying foul please let me know how a country where a bunch of people who did something stupid on a whim while fighting the countries wars are going to be burned at the stake and have their entire lives ruined while people are protected by the federal courts in their "right" to crash those same men and womens funerals waving signs and cheering for their deaths while their families try to say their last goodbyes is a "decent" country...I am ashamed by the fact that I am a soldier for this failure of a country at this point.

:applause:

[CaptGoodvibes]

Either way you look at either point of view our country is in the toilet anyway so....is it too late to invite britain back?...and before anyone starts crying foul please let me know how a country where a bunch of people who did something stupid on a whim while fighting the countries wars are going to be burned at the stake and have their entire lives ruined while people are protected by the federal courts in their "right" to crash those same men and womens funerals waving signs and cheering for their deaths while their families try to say their last goodbyes is a "decent" country...I am ashamed by the fact that I am a soldier for this failure of a country at this point.

I agree with your entire post except for the utter lack of punctuation. :applause:

[Zenshu]

I agree with your entire post except for the utter lack of punctuation. :applause:

Punctuation is a crutch...I prefer massive run on sentences that cause people who read aloud to lose their breath and pass out.

[CaptGoodvibes]

Punctuation is a crutch...I prefer massive run on sentences that cause people who read aloud to lose their breath and pass out.

Obviously. :doublefinger:

:up:

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Critical thinking, as in the required course taught in university to graduate, is not as simple as selecting a beer. Thank you for proving my point.
That's lame. They consider that a course now??? Wow....

Well, considering I've designed parts for NASA that flew on a shuttle mission, designed a quick-change connector system for the LGTR training missile that flew on Navy aircraft, designed a quick-change fuel nozzle NASA is using for jet exhaust test research, redesigned the JSOW missile control section investment casting and most of the entire assembly and the machining arbor for the lathe, and mastering one of the most intense complex-geometry modeling systems on the planet to create some amazing geometry over the years for various customers, yeah, I think had that "critical thinking" thing handled long before the libs decided to make that a "class". :)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Either way you look at either point of view our country is in the toilet anyway so....is it too late to invite britain back?....
Why would we want to be in the toilet..... AND have warm beer, bad food, and toothless ugly women????:p

[rforsythe]

I think had that "critical thinking" thing handled long before the libs decided to make that a "class". :)

So now critical thinking classes are a political movement? Dude, seriously, put down the effin meth pipe for a day. You'll like it.


Why would we want to be in the toilet..... AND have warm beer, bad food, and toothless ugly women????:p

Ever been to West Virginia?

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

So now critical thinking classes are a political movement? Dude, seriously, put down the effin meth pipe for a day. You'll like it.



Ever been to West Virginia?
This "critical thinking" has become the liberal buzzword. to my knowledge it was never a class until very recently.

Hey, at least they have COLD beer!

[BC14]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html

[RajunCajun]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html

He makes a great point.

[salsashark]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html

/Thread

[#1Townie]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html
:yes:

couldnt agree more.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

F#CK YEAH! And for all the people who claim I don't vote ObaMao because I'm racist, I'd vote for this guy!

[Ezzzzy1]

My point all along... “As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

[McVaaahhh]

My $0.02:

Were they wrong? Yes - we should hold ourselves to a higher standard
Were they stupid? Fuck Yes - Just like all these other assholes who film themselves committing crimes. (not saying this is a crime)
Should this be that big of a deal? No - Allen West has it right. Let them know this is behavior that should not be tolerated, give them the appropriate punishment as suggested, and let's go on.

[#1Townie]

holy crap i missed alot. to those that i have served i respect that. i know i have shown issues with our troops. (just the ones that demand i get on one knee and pay tribute to their serving in a war).

fact is i have never served in a branch of the military. that doesnt mean i have never been in a war. i have seen my share of war without ever even leaving the country. i have been shot at. i have lost friends to wars. i have seen some real shit even just doing my job.

the world is not a tea party. the world is not as civil as we would all like it to be. fact is they want this fight. they have proved time and time again that they will bring this fight to our door step by any means. i would much rather loose 100000 troops before another innocent american child dies by the hands of them. i dont give a shit what coutry they are from or what coutry gets invaded. keep that fucking war over there. this country has no back bone anymore. the 60s and 70s fucking destroyd our country. funny how the people fighting for our rights has basically destroyed them. pc??? get the fuck out of here. how about own up to your own shit.

the world is a giant play ground. there are bullys. lots of them. some have lots of friends and pick on the smaller kids. fights happen. just because you grew up being able to have great things like collage and degrees doesnt mean you understand the world better. i know more about how the world works then most of you blasting about what degree you have in what. something along the lines of critical thinking? you had to learn that?? here is how i learned it. if you fuck with this person he will kill you. not slap you around. not beat your ass. FUCKING KILL YOU! i had a run in when i was 18 over my friend not being able to get some guy weed. he didnt get jacked for his money. just couldnt get hooked up. what was the out come in that? drive bys on mine and a few friends houses. they ended up getting in a shoot out with another gang a few days later and got locked up. now im sure this is where some of you are like thats when i would have called the cops right? fuck no. that would have ment i would loose all support from the only ones that had my back. that just isnt how life works. fuck iraq. i dont give a shit about them. did they have wmds? ask the kurds....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

fact is that they didnt let un inspectors into the country. bush set a time line and said saddam was to leave. he didnt we went in. was america on the war path?? ummm yes. their fault for thinking we where bluffing. i would have rather of made mistakes by showing force then looked like a bunch of pussys.

look guys like i said before their bad for recording it. we are there. nothing will ever change that. america needed to show that if you fuck with us we will bring the pain. do i feel bad for the blood that was shed in those places?? nope. dont give a shit. dont tred on our country. if you do you will pay the price. it has nothing with wanting to play nice with people that hate us. the whole we have to nice thing is garbage. when war is brought to us then its time to fight. infact waiting for war to be brought to us is some of the worst mistakes we have ever made. pearl harbor??? 911???? come the fuck on people. everytime we have tryd to show mercey and not get involved it has come back to bite us in the ass.

if you cant understand that the world is not a place where everyone can play nice and we can all get along then its time to get out of your suburbs and see the real world. you dont even have leave the coutry. take yourself to detroit and see how far that peace and love bullshit gets you.

life is fucked up. im sorry it is but it is what it is. people see things they dont have will never be able to get so they will try to take it from you. that is life.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

fuck iraq. i dont give a shit about them. did they have wmds? ask the kurds....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction



Yep, when the libs cry their typical "there were no WMD's, Bush lied blahblahblah", they never have a response for this. Yet, they were the first to cry when it happened. Funny, huh? ;)

[rforsythe]

if you cant understand that the world is not a place where everyone can play nice and we can all get along then its time to get out of your suburbs and see the real world. you dont even have leave the coutry. take yourself to detroit and see how far that peace and love bullshit gets you.


Funny, when you eluded to a war zone in America that's the first place that popped into my mind. AK47 battles (not driveby's - full on street battles), people getting hacked up with machetes, explosives being lobbed, etc etc are happening there constantly. Don't even need to go to N Mexico to get a taste of that bullshit. The cops can't deal with it anymore, and there are videos of EMS crews responding to the aftermath being in the middle of scenes right out of Iraq (except everyone isn't dressed in towels). I fully expect the Nat'l Guard to get called in there some day in the not too distant future as they're the only ones with the real world experience necessary to deal with urban warfare like that.

For a minute I thought you were referring to Colorado Springs as a "war zone", but if you came from that shithole in MI then I get your perspective a little more.

[jbnwc]

Allen West is a stud.

[#1Townie]

Funny, when you eluded to a war zone in America that's the first place that popped into my mind. AK47 battles (not driveby's - full on street battles), people getting hacked up with machetes, explosives being lobbed, etc etc are happening there constantly. Don't even need to go to N Mexico to get a taste of that bullshit. The cops can't deal with it anymore, and there are videos of EMS crews responding to the aftermath being in the middle of scenes right out of Iraq (except everyone isn't dressed in towels). I fully expect the Nat'l Guard to get called in there some day in the not too distant future as they're the only ones with the real world experience necessary to deal with urban warfare like that.

For a minute I thought you were referring to Colorado Springs as a "war zone", but if you came from that shithole in MI then I get your perspective a little more.
Hahahaha springs a war zone??? I've seen the worst this state has to offer and im far from impressed. No I didn't grow up in detroit. All my family is from there so I spent alot of time growing up out there. Im from a small town in Nevada. We had to deal with the cali gangs ALOT. My neighborhood controlled the drug flow throughout northern nv for a long time. We also did alot of other things. My best friend was shot a few years ago in a robbery gone bad. He tryd to fight back. No nv doesn't make the news for much. Its bad pr. I remember my first day in high school. They told how drugs and gangs where not a problem in our school. Kids didn't do drugs and didn't have guns. I knew for a fact three kids in that assembly that had hand guns on them and I was fighting a meth addiction. Problem with where I grew was they ignored all the problems for far to long. Now nv ranks top 15 in all areas of crime. Is actually number one overall. Top ten for drugs. Also my area is one and two for not recovering from the recession. Its not a pretty sight.