Mortage rates hit ridiculous lows this week

[Ghosty]

Just an FYI for those CSC homeowners who've contemplated refi'ing their home loan. They've been dropping over the last couple years, but this is seriously the lowest I've EVER seen, and many people think the lowest you will ever get here in the U.S.

Yesterday my co-workers got quotes of the high 2%'s on 15yr fixed notes! I saw many 3.75% 30yr fixed notes. Both with zero points, ~$400 appraisal, & up to $500 in lender fees. Just rough numbers, but you get the idea. I assume closing costs around $1500 or so, after all that. Today they actually went up an 1/8 to a 1/4, so now they're seeing 3% on 15yr fixed.

This is a good week to watch closely, every day if you're serious.

I currently have 5 1/8 on a 30yr, so it's definitely time to shop around. Obviously those rates are gonna be for people with at least 700-800+ range FICO, minimal non-home debt, adequate appraisal, and minimum 80% LTV to avoid PMI insurance. I don't work in the business, just passing the info along in case you don't watch it often enough and want to re-fi.

For starters, check:

www.BestRate.com (http://www.BestRate.com)

www.BankRate.com (http://www.BankRate.com)

www.LoansAtWholesale.com (http://www.LoansAtWholesale.com)

Those are some of our favorite places to shop rates. I have no experience with the banks in there, because my main bank is also my lender and has always got me a decent deal.

[Vance]

I was pondering a 203K refi a few months from now - but was going to wait to see what my raise at work was going to be first then letting it settle in for a few months so there was history there...

BUT... perhaps I should say screw it and call my lender anyway considering that's a good 1.125% lower on a 30 year than what I'm at now - and I thought he got me a PHENOMENAL rate at the time (2 years ago).

[Ghosty]

Same here, I can actually go with a 20yr fixed and have almost the same payment as my current rate. That's awesome. But I'll probably just do a 30 again, and start paying more into principal. I like the safety-net of a 30yr, in case you ever get laid off or something. Payments are still doable.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Best of luck to those that can do it. I look at all this and with the realization I'll never be able to buy anything, it just sux.

[Foolds]

Call Chad's Wife.. Shes AWESOME!

Catherine Eusea
Area Sales Manager
ceusea@firstcal.net

Office: 970-372-6939
Cell: 720.300.6777
Fax: 855.502.6873
NMLS#: 237244

[Ghosty]

Call Chad's Wife.. She's AWESOME!
What's Chad's screenname here?

[mdub]

Best of luck to those that can do it. I look at all this and with the realization I'll never be able to buy anything, it just sux.


awh man...keep playing the lotto...

[#1Townie]

Hahaha here we go again. All time lows. Buy buy buy buy buy. You cant afford it? YOU CANT AFFORD NOT TO!

A few years from now. You have to buy now.. its not going to get any cheaper. Soon you wont be able to afford a house. You mean my 330k home is now worth 1.5 mill? Hell yes. Sell that bad dog. Wait your saying the house i just bought for 1.5 mill is only worth 330k??

Crash.

[tecknojoe]

I've been considering buying a house for a year now. This is such good news for me. Rates have just gone down and down, and home prices have dropped further.

I don't see it getting much lower, but I don't see it exactly springing forward out of the blue.

[grim]

I'm pretty happy with my 4% gonna refinance my car though!

[vort3xr6]

Bernanke is a moron. I have a 4.75 fixed 30 yr. it's my HOA that is the problem, not the mortgage.

[Sean]

What's Chad's screenname here?

Chad23 (I'm pretty sure)

He and his wife are good people. :up:

[kingtut]

my HOA that is the problem, not the mortgage.

$285/month...I'm expecting it to hit $300 in 2013, sigh. To make matters worse, the neighborhood looks like trash :banghead:

On a brighter note: currently locked in @ 4% with -1 point.

[mxer]

$285/month...I'm expecting it to hit $300 in 2013, sigh. To make matters worse, the neighborhood looks like trash :banghead:

On a brighter note: currently locked in @ 4% with -1 point.

Yikes, I thought 62 bucks was too much. What does that buy?

[Penadam]

Yikes, I thought 62 bucks was too much. What does that buy?

Coke for the HOA board members.

[modette99]

$285/month...I'm expecting it to hit $300 in 2013, sigh. To make matters worse, the neighborhood looks like trash :banghead:

On a brighter note: currently locked in @ 4% with -1 point.


And to think we have no HOA and a old guy tried to start one and claim at closing he would collect $200 from people. A lawyer in the sub let him have it and he has since for the last 1+ has had his home for sale....LOL

I asked him what will the money do for us, he had no answer. Our parks are provided for by Triview. We have zero cost. The lawyer pushing for the HOA is his friend. So he just wanted to collect money for an easy paycheck.

His complaint was weeds in the cracks of driveways, recycle bins left in front of garages, people who park in the street, and worried about what people do in their back yards. I told him to his face that he is too old and it sounded like he needed a retirement community.His response to me "why are you against it your house is fine"....so my point why would I be for an HOA they don't do much but collect money and provide nothing.

Now if we had a community pool I could understand it.

[bulldog]

People do understand you are charged fees right when you refinance? This needs to be weighed against what the interest rate would save you in the long run. Of course a mortgage person is going to tell you to do it; this is how THEY get paid. No disrespect, but people should understand that refinance is not free and it may hurt you more than help in some case.

I'll admit I am no expert, just a homeowner since I was 20 years old! Maybe I am wrong, but I was always charged fees when I did this. Not saying this can't be a good idea for some homeowners that have not refinanced in a long time.

Experts please enlighten me when it is worth it to refinance and if their are "average" costs associated with it....

[Ghosty]

$285/month...I'm expecting it to hit $300 in 2013, sigh. To make matters worse, the neighborhood looks like trash.
Wow! That's normally what you see in a newer condo complex where you're paying for a nice pool, gym, security, etc. My neighborhood HOA is only about $40/mo.

[Ghosty]

People do understand you are charged fees right when you refinance? This needs to be weighed against what the interest rate would save you in the long run. Of course a mortgage person is going to tell you to do it; this is how THEY get paid. No disrespect, but people should understand that refinance is not free and it may hurt you more than help in some case.

I'll admit I am no expert, just a homeowner since I was 20 years old! Maybe I am wrong, but I was always charged fees when I did this. Not saying this can't be a good idea for some homeowners that have not refinanced in a long time.

Experts please enlighten me when it is worth it to refinance and if their are "average" costs associated with it....
Yeah, I mentioned fees in the OP, obviously these things are going to vary by lender. Online I've seen some with very small fees, all the way up to $900, with several around $500-$700 I think. There's no such thing as a "no-cost" loan, that was a tricky saying that lenders loved to lure people with during the big real-estate boom leading up to the mid-2000's crash. Lenders would just roll all those big fees into the mortgage, adding to your principal on the note.

Try that LoansAtWholesale.com link, just to play with numbers. It lets you adjust your rate up and down (paid points), and see how all the other numbers change, including their estimated fees & closing costs.

THEN CLICK ON THE "FEE WORKSHEET" link in the middle of whichever column you are looking at. That outlays the different fees.

Regardless, there are SO MANY variables and individual circumstances, the only accurate way to get a rate is to work with a lender, have them pull your credit and give you either the preliminary estimate worksheet of closing costs, or do a "hard inquiry" and pull your full credit report, then give you a "Good Faith Estimate" which will really tell you exactly what you will pay for, including itemizing fees like: title, appraisal, tax, document fees, etc. There are several fees that vary by lender, but are usually standard and in the same general ballpark. Remember to look at what lock period they're offering too. Some are as low as 30 days which I feel is too risky. One lender we talked to offered a 45-day lock, and was seeing approximately 35 days to closing, so that was relatively safe.

Beyond what I've noted here, I'm not a lender or an expert. But I've had a mortage of some type for about 20+ years, and have re-fi'd at least a half-dozen times. In my experience, my final numbers have not varied from the lender initial estimate, by much at all. Luckily there are many laws in place to keep them from scamming people too much, especially after Obama put through new rules to protect people from predatory lending after 2010.

Whether or not a lower rate is worth it to you, also varies greatly by borrower situation, how many years you are into your current note, etc. A very GENERAL rule that some people like to mention is if you can drop a full point, AND plan on staying in this house for at least five more years. But again, that varies by the size of your note and how many years you've already paid interest into it. A lender can explain details and how many years it will take to recoup closing costs, with your newer lower monthly. Also, if you want to get out of a 30, into a 15 or 20, that should play a role in your decision.

[Ezzzzy1]

People do understand you are charged fees right when you refinance? This needs to be weighed against what the interest rate would save you in the long run. Of course a mortgage person is going to tell you to do it; this is how THEY get paid. No disrespect, but people should understand that refinance is not free and it may hurt you more than help in some case.

There are a couple of ways they can get paid and a lot of times people elect to have that either added into the repayment of the loan or by increasing the interest rate and having the bank pay them.

What a lot of people do not understand is what refinancing does to you payment structure....
When you first get your mortage vary little of what you are paying each month goes towards the principal repayment, while a good majority of the payment goes towards the interest payment (say 10%/90%). As the years pass the scale starts to tip towards making more of a principal payment and less towards interest. So if you are in say year 5 of your repayment you are in a much higher principal payment percentage than if you refi (because when you refi the scale is reset). All in all if your main goal is to pay down the principal then you would be hurting yourself by refinancing. A lot of people miss this because they see that they can save $300! a month and jump right into it but most experts would say that its not worth refinancing for less than .75 if you have been in your current mortage for more than 3 years.

Also for people that have never heard of by monthly payments, that is the way to go if you can afford an extra few payments a year. Basically it works like this: instead of making 1 monthly payment (for a total of 12 a year) you would make two half payments each month (on the 1st and 15th). So not only are you making an extra 2 half payments (or 1 full payment) a year (and over 30 years thats a lot of money) but the second payment of each month go 100% towards the principal repayment, so you are paying the most important part of your mortage at a higher rate.

Confusing, I know. But if you are going to stay in your house for a while (5,10,15+ years) then it honestly is worth looking at.

If you dont want to do that but have been in your house for 3+ years and you can afford a 15 year mortage.... and thats when the fun starts. Imagine having the deed to your home in 15 years!

[modette99]

I haggled on our fees when we refinanced through Chase...it was such a botched thing that I was in contact with some higher up (VP???) that actually waived the fees to make us happy. Then again we already had our banking with them so they saw $$$$ as a potential loss for them if we decided "bad experience" and picked up and left totally.

Our refinance dropped the second mortgage and rolled it into one 30 year (we were already 30 years anyways) and it saved us $600 a month and made it so it was one check send out vs two every month.

The thing you need to be careful about is are you going to appraise without needing PMI or putting a large part of cash down. I forget the numbers but I guess we were like $3,000 short of not having PMI which if I remember is a % of your homes value. So lucky for us we handed them $3,000 and thus still avoided needing PMI. But with house values drastically reduced you might be surprised to find out with the new appraisal you now need PMI or have a sum of cash to pay it down to not have PMI.

Also appraisers are hit and miss. Our lady that came out was very nice, and liked my upgrades to the home and the plan forward. She also liked we just put a new roof on, and the updates set our house apart from the others in the neighborhood. She also did not use Foreclosed homes as a comparison. She also liked I knew what other homes had gone for, and were listed for...which I pointed out and she jotted those down to take a look for the comparison. Be nice to these people, they are the ones that will decide...

Clean your house up, have little issues resolved like paint and carpet and what have you. Place looks trashy they know your not taking care of it, thus it will only go down in value later on.

She also liked that I was not desperate to refinance...LOL I'm sure they see so many people that NEED the money. Pretty much I explained that if we could save money great, if not no big deal we can afford the payment, but would like to take the savings and dump it back into the house. Which shows, your making your house nice....and that you have a plan for your house.

Hope some of the pointers help someone.

[modette99]

There are a couple of ways they can get paid and a lot of times people elect to have that either added into the repayment of the loan or by increasing the interest rate and having the bank pay them.

What a lot of people do not understand is what refinancing does to you payment structure....
When you first get your mortage vary little of what you are paying each month goes towards the principal repayment, while a good majority of the payment goes towards the interest payment (say 10%/90%). As the years pass the scale starts to tip towards making more of a principal payment and less towards interest. So if you are in say year 5 of your repayment you are in a much higher principal payment percentage than if you refi (because when you refi the scale is reset). All in all if your main goal is to pay down the principal then you would be hurting yourself by refinancing. A lot of people miss this because they see that they can save $300! a month and jump right into it but most experts would say that its not worth refinancing for less than .75 if you have been in your current mortage for more than 3 years.

Also for people that have never heard of by monthly payments, that is the way to go if you can afford an extra few payments a year. Basically it works like this: instead of making 1 monthly payment (for a total of 12 a year) you would make two half payments each month (on the 1st and 15th). So not only are you making an extra 2 half payments (or 1 full payment) a year (and over 30 years thats a lot of money) but the second payment of each month go 100% towards the principal repayment, so you are paying the most important part of your mortage at a higher rate.

Confusing, I know. But if you are going to stay in your house for a while (5,10,15+ years) then it honestly is worth looking at.

If you dont want to do that but have been in your house for 3+ years and you can afford a 15 year mortage.... and thats when the fun starts. Imagine having the deed to your home in 15 years!


This is why you always pay more then your payment. Lets say you refinance a $2,200 mortgage (I think what ours was). And now its $1,600...you don't just pay the $1,600 you still pay the $2,200....I think we pay $2,000 so $400 more a month then required. Our principle has gone down pretty damn good and fast. Idea is to pay off the home ASAP...imagine $1,600-$2,000 in your pocket every months. Every 6months you could buy a new motorcycle in cash...LOL Savings in life then really starts to take off.

[Ghosty]

Good points Ezzy & Modette. As for PMI, your LTV (Loan-to-Value) ratio needs to be 80% or LESS. So just throwing out some random figures:

Your home value: $300,000
Mortgage needs to be a MAX of: $240,000 (80% of 300k)

IF you ask for a note any higher thank $240k (higher than 80% LTV), then you will incur PMI (mortgage insurance), which can vary, but usually around $150/mo. I think. That's ON TOP OF your principle, interest, escrows (prop.taxes), homeowners insurance, etc.

Another example:
Appraised home value: $200k
Mortgage needs to be: $160k or less

If you enter your info into that LoansAtWholesale.com site, it'll show you your LTV in the top-left. Then you can adjust your finance amount accordingly until you get down to 80% or less. That will tell you how much cash you need to bring to the table to avoid PMI.

I never seem to get the best deals from Chase or Wells. Online brokers seem to have the best rates, but be careful, not all are reputable, and not all can be relied on to do everything ontime and not leave you hanging come closing time. Just do your research, and check the fee schedule closely.

[Foolds]

Chad23 (I'm pretty sure)

He and his wife are good people. :up:

Yep Chad23.

[Foolds]

People do understand you are charged fees right when you refinance? This needs to be weighed against what the interest rate would save you in the long run. Of course a mortgage person is going to tell you to do it; this is how THEY get paid. No disrespect, but people should understand that refinance is not free and it may hurt you more than help in some case.

I'll admit I am no expert, just a homeowner since I was 20 years old! Maybe I am wrong, but I was always charged fees when I did this. Not saying this can't be a good idea for some homeowners that have not refinanced in a long time.

Experts please enlighten me when it is worth it to refinance and if their are "average" costs associated with it....

I looked at refi again about 6 months ago (11 months after I refi'ed with Catherin) and we talked about 15 min, she ran the numbers and told me to stay put, the pay off time for the refi was 4 years.. Which was just to long to benefit. She's a Straight shooter, if it dosn't make sense she will tell you, just ask her!

[kingtut]

Yikes, I thought 62 bucks was too much. What does that buy?

- Water: I've requested that individual units pay their own way, just as you would pay Xcel for energy usage. But alas, no can do- they tell me. So its like the 'Obama Water Plan'. Everyone pays equal amounts, regardless of usage or size of unit. Ironic thing is, the bigger (sq ft) your unit is, the more HOA dues you pay (whaa?)
- Roof/Exterior: Includes paint, siding, etc.
- Small community pool, nothing fancy.
- Clubhouse: The "gym" consists of a few pos machines from the 80's-- literally.
- Lawn/Snow removal

** Good point made about cost/charges to refi ...

[Ghosty]

One of my lenders just offered me 4% on a 30yr, but paying 1/2 point and almost $3k in (total) closing costs on top of that, ugh. Would've only saved me around $150/mo. Decent, but not as good as I want. Gonna shop around to see if I can get 3 1/2 on a 30, and zero points, might be tough though unless rates drop a bit more, or I go for a 20yr fixed instead...

[kingtut]

One of my lenders just offered me 4% on a 30yr, but paying 1/2 point and almost $3k in (total) closing costs on top of that, ugh. Would've only saved me around $150/mo. Decent, but not as good as I want. Gonna shop around to see if I can get 3 1/2 on a 30, and zero points, might be tough though unless rates drop a bit more, or I go for a 20yr fixed instead...

You'd be hard pressed to get under 4% on a 30, imo. Props to you if you can swing it though (with no points of course).

Good luck!

[mxer]

- Water: I've requested that individual units pay their own way, just as you would pay Xcel for energy usage. But alas, no can do- they tell me. So its like the 'Obama Water Plan'. Everyone pays equal amounts, regardless of usage or size of unit. Ironic thing is, the bigger (sq ft) your unit is, the more HOA dues you pay (whaa?)
- Roof/Exterior: Includes paint, siding, etc.
- Small community pool, nothing fancy.
- Clubhouse: The "gym" consists of a few pos machines from the 80's-- literally.
- Lawn/Snow removal

** Good point made about cost/charges to refi ...

They don't put individual water meters on condos and townhomes I think. The water is pretty miniscule if you don't have to worry about watering a yard.

The larger units paying higher rates makes absolutely no sense except for the added insurance that is carried on it but I'm guessing that's pretty miniscule as well.

[CatNip]

[QUOTE=Foolds;664523]Call Chad's Wife.. Shes AWESOME!


Thanks for the plug JJ!

I read through this post and the biggest thing to keep in mind that there are A LOT of new programs out and every situation is different.

For instance, if you got an FHA mortgage BEFORE 6/2009 you may be eligible the NEW streamline FHA refinance. (there is a streamline available for most FHA loans) Most folks in an FHA loan have not been able to refi because the new mortgage insurance is really high but with the new rules (can't close until mid June) the mortgage insurance is a lot cheaper and the upfront mortgage insurance is like .05%. It's crazy! I just got done working on a refi her rate was 5.875% and we saved about $300. We never pursued it before because it just didn't make sense. Keep in mind when doing a streamline FHA, there is no appraisal and we verify you have a job but I don't have to verify if you qualify income wise. I cannot roll any money on top of the loan except for the upfront mortgage insurance so I try to cover as much of the costs as possible. I personally try to make sense of every refinance and be able to show the ability to recover costs within the first year. So if you have considered a refinance before with FHA and it didn't make sense, I would suggest working the numbers again.

With regards to Conventional the new HARP program is pretty amazing! We can go well above 100% loan to value and the underwriting is flexible, I have been able to extend ratios higher than I ever have. Even those loans that do not qualify for HARP (Fannie Mae owned) I'm getting appraisal waivers where we only need a drive by with no value. (not many lenders can accept a drive by appraisal)

Where I'm getting at is, with the new programs it's been easier to get people qualified...a lot easier.

A lot of my clients start by sending me a mortgage statement and a rough estimate of where your credit sits. I'm happy to run initial numbers to see if I can spot which program that you would qualify in. I will give you a rough break down and you will see if it make sense. Sometimes if I can't fit you into a program I have to run the file through the automated underwriting system to see if I can pick up any waivers.

Right now most lenders are taking 60-90 days to close refinances, we are averaging 14-21 days. I turned in loans on the 16th and they all closed today, right before the end of the month. Again, every case is different, but I won't drag you on for 60-90 days!

Either way...I'm happy to try and look into every option. I have done several loans with CSC members and I don't think there has been one dissatisfied client here. (I hope:) I'm pretty honest and forth right in everything I say and I'm here to help you. Below is my contact information, please feel free to call or e-mail me. You can e-mail or fax statements to the contact info below. Thanks for the opportunity to be of service to your group, I love working with all of you.

Catherine Eusea
Area Sales Manager
ceusea@firstcal.ne (ceusea@firstcal.net)t

Office: 970-372-6939
Cell: 720.300.6777
Fax: 855.502.6873
NMLS#: 237244

[CatNip]

I looked at refi again about 6 months ago (11 months after I refi'ed with Catherin) and we talked about 15 min, she ran the numbers and told me to stay put, the pay off time for the refi was 4 years.. Which was just to long to benefit. She's a Straight shooter, if it dosn't make sense she will tell you, just ask her!

I heart you JJ!!! You are right on, I will tell you NO, we have to justify that it makes sense...period.

I would be happy to help, please contact me below. I don't check CSC too often...my hubby is all over it though :)
Catherine Eusea
Area Sales Manager
ceusea@firstcal.ne (ceusea@firstcal.net)t

Office: 970-372-6939
Cell: 720.300.6777
Fax: 855.502.6873
NMLS#: 237244

[drago52]

I'm purchasing a home within the month and just locked in a loan for 10% down at 4.125% on the 1st mortgage. No points purchased. If I had 20% down, I could get 4% without any points.

[Cars-R-Coffins]

They don't put individual water meters on condos and townhomes I think. The water is pretty miniscule if you don't have to worry about watering a yard.

The larger units paying higher rates makes absolutely no sense except for the added insurance that is carried on it but I'm guessing that's pretty miniscule as well.

It makes sense to me. A larger condo usually means more people living in it. More people equals more trash to dispose of, more water used, more use of the pool and fitness room. Obviously more use of the pool and fitness room cause for more maintanence and new equipment over time.

I don't think it's my respinsibility to cover shared expenses, especially if another unit has a family of 6 living in it.

[Ghosty]

I would be happy to help, please contact me below.

Catherine Eusea
Area Sales Manager
ceusea@firstcal.ne (ceusea@firstcal.net)t

Office: 970-372-6939
Cell: 720.300.6777
Fax: 855.502.6873
NMLS#: 237244
Nice, I'll give you a shout in the very near future.

[Ghosty]

Might've dropped a bit AGAIN. I'm seeing high 2's on a 15yr note, and high 3's on a 30yr! Waiting on a callback from Catherine @ FirstCalifornia to see how they compare with LoansAtWholesale and my credit union.

[Clovis]

Rates moved slightly up this afternoon (about a .25% to pricing, NOT .25% to the rate).

I'm a mortgage loan officer with a local bank and I can offer CSC members substantial discounts.

[kalibra]

Hahaha here we go again. All time lows. Buy buy buy buy buy. You cant afford it? YOU CANT AFFORD NOT TO!

A few years from now. You have to buy now.. its not going to get any cheaper. Soon you wont be able to afford a house. You mean my 330k home is now worth 1.5 mill? Hell yes. Sell that bad dog. Wait your saying the house i just bought for 1.5 mill is only worth 330k??

Crash.
After 12 years in this country I am still trying to understand what "the more you spend..the more you save" MEANS????? The math I took in school in Europe will have me believe otherwise!

[kingtut]

I am still trying to understand what "the more you spend..the more you save" MEANS?????

Costco. They get me everytime.

Good info in this thread though. Woot for Streamline FHA...