You know the world is F' up when.. [Archive] - Colorado Sportbike Club Forums

~Barn~

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 09:43 AM

Wait a minute.. This happened in Chicago? Where they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country? How could this possibly be?

I see what you're getting at here, but the more successful approach would be to outlaw the sale, ownership, production, import, distribution, manufacturing, and otherwise existence of guns in the United States. A pipe dream to be sure, but not something I think a majority of US citizens - maybe even world citizens - (myself included) would be terribly opposed to. :dunno:

The convenience of harm that is inherent to firearms, will always victimize and exploit the lack of self restraint and darkness that unfortunately permeates a segment of humanity. Victims like this child and her dad end up paying the ultimate price in a decision that ultimately takes a fraction of a second. All the gun posturing in the world doesn't change that result. It's little consolation at this point since Johnylah Watkins is now dead and gone and Jonathan Watkins fights for his life in a hospital bed, but I wish he would have had to fight off a knife attack instead.

Vance

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 09:48 AM

Wait a minute.. This happened in Chicago? Where they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country? How could this possibly be?

My above comments aside, this is sad and seemingly senseless. I hope the best for the father and mother.

Comments about gun control aside - I think this really is a commentary about what happens when you get involved in gangs. It doesn't matter if you think you quit, if you want to quit... somewhere you likely pissed off someone that remembers you - colors on or off - and they want to make you pay. Family, friends, innocent passers-by be damned.

THis goes back to not being about the guns - but about the fucked up 'social' behavior that is gang affiliation and activity.

Jmetz

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 09:59 AM

Vance

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:03 AM

Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered well before the invention of the firearm. 6 million Jews were killed in the holocaust, the vast majority not by firearms. The crusades were well before firearms. Making firearms disappear would change nothing but the tool of choice I'm afraid. We've been killing each other since we've been able. Nothing will change it.

I'm all for going back to swords if all armed forces across the world do it too.
I always thought it was a more civilized way to kill anyway :D

You know - facing your opponent... seeing their eyes... watching them bleed out in front of you. Totally much more civilized to any good sociopath and bloodlusting war monger, or me. :hibye:

bulldog

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:29 AM

Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered well before the invention of the firearm. Making firearms disappear would change nothing but the tool of choice I'm afraid. We've been killing each other since we've been able. Nothing will change it. In this situation I am not so sure though. The baby was killed as a innocent bystander; I highly doubt the baby was the target. So if it weren't for multiple bullets flying around there is a good chance they would just have got the father and not the baby if they used something like a knife :dunno:

~Barn~

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:41 AM

Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered well before the invention of the firearm.

Yes, at the hands of masses of religious hordes and tyrannical leaders whose followers were controlled by the same spectre of death if disobedient. Now tens of thousands are slaughtered by the hands of individuals, because of the accessibility to "the tool".

I'm not saying that the removal of guns equates to the removal of evil; I know that it does not. But it does remove a very tangible (and effectvie) means by which it can be exercised on those who are undeserving.

Sadly it really is a "gun culture" thing, like Bob Costas tried to paraphrase Jason Whitlock. We abuse the conveniences available to us.
Guns Don't Kill People, Gun Culture Does (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-13/guns-dont-kill-people-gun-culture-does)

Jmetz

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:41 AM

In this situation I am not so sure though. The baby was killed as a innocent bystander; I highly doubt the baby was the target. So if it weren't for multiple bullets flying around there is a good chance they would just have got the father and not the baby if they used something like a knife :dunno:

What if they used a sword? It would've gone through him and the baby. What if they tossed a homemade grenade in? What if they rammed his car at high speed with another?

bulldog

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:52 AM

What if they used a sword? It would've gone through him and the baby. What if they tossed a homemade grenade in? What if they rammed his car at high speed with another? Now you are just being crazy! :slap: :lol:

In all reality very few killers, especially in gangs who tend to be young fathers, would intentionally kill a baby and I am sure this was done by accident trying to get to the dad (my guess is they didn't even know a baby was there). So even if they used a sword they would have seen the baby and avoided it; maybe even have decided to not kill at that moment. Plus we got ten shots fired and no fool with a sword swings 10 times.

CYCLE_MONKEY

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:54 AM

Wait a minute.. This happened in Chicago? Where they have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country? How could this possibly be?

My above comments aside, this is sad and seemingly senseless. I hope the best for the father and mother.
More gun laws are ALWAYS the answer! 0bama says so! We should export the (D)ipshits that just passed them here and send 'em permanently to Chicago where they're obviously needed more......

Wrider

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:00 AM

I'm not saying that the removal of guns equates to the removal of evil; I know that it does not. But it does remove a very tangible (and effectvie) means by which it can be exercised on those who are undeserving.

I'm just gonna throw this little tidbit out there. In 2009 (latest year I have data for, and does not buck the trend for previous years), more people were killed in the US by hands and fists than were murdered in all of the UK, Australia, or Canada.

I'm not thinking it's a gun culture thing, it's a US culture thing.

I'll also throw out the tidbit that the violent crime rate is 10 times higher in the UK than in the US.

Jmetz

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:06 AM

Now you are just being crazy! :slap: :lol:

In all reality very few killers, especially in gangs who tend to be young fathers, would intentionally kill a baby and I am sure this was done by accident trying to get to the dad (my guess is they didn't even know a baby was there). So even if they used a sword they would have seen the baby and avoided it; maybe even have decided to not kill at that moment. Plus we got ten shots fired and no fool with a sword swings 10 times.

My comment was if there were no guns. I don't think it's that crazy to think if there were no guns that we would be using swords instead. I can make a grenade out of household chemicals in 5 minutes. Is it really that crazy? You're doing a lot of speculating. The shooter may have seen the baby for all we know. Someone intent one killing someone else generally cares little about bystanders affected.

bulldog

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:14 AM

My comment was if there were no guns. I don't think it's that crazy to think if there were no guns that we would be using swords instead. I can make a grenade out of household chemicals in 5 minutes. Is it really that crazy? You're doing a lot of speculating. The shooter may have seen the baby for all we know. Someone intent one killing someone else generally cares little about bystanders affected. I just think innocent bystander killings would go down if people were forced to use other weapons. I could be wrong, but seems like common sense to me when you hear of people just shooting and bullets keep going, yet you very rarely hear an a innocent bystander being killed by a stabbing.

I don't agree that most killers care little about bystanders; especially when it is a baby. I say this because if a child molester goes into prison he is treated like shit because inmates are fathers and do care about kids. Only psychopaths kill for fun and gang killings are usually because of a intent on a person or a rival gang member. Look at the mafia; very few would ever kill a woman or child and that is against their code.

Ghosty

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:14 AM

Why all gang members should be shot on sight. Poor baby, innocent victim of a ridiculous and uneccessary segment of society. Fucking ghetto trash. And don't tell me "you're a sheltered suburbanite and don't know what it's like growing up in the inner city where you need to be in a gang so you can walk to school safely".

mdub

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:20 AM

bulldog

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:22 AM

wrong place at the wrong time....news says father is not affiliated with any gang.. I just went by the article

Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said the incident has "very strong gang overtones" and the father, who has an extensive criminal history, was the intended target. Police are pursuing several angles, McCarthy said.

Jmetz

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:27 AM

I just think innocent bystander killings would go down if people were forced to use other weapons. I could be wrong, but seems like common sense to me when you hear of people just shooting and bullets keep going, yet you very rarely hear an a innocent bystander being killed by a stabbing.

I don't agree that most killers care little about bystanders; especially when it is a baby. I say this because if a child molester goes into prison he is treated like shit because inmates are fathers and do care about kids. Only psychopaths kill for fun and gang killings are usually because of a intent on a person or a rival gang member. Look at the mafia; very few would ever kill a woman or child and that is against their code.

Child molesters and someone that unintentionally killed a child in a shooting are two very different things. Maybe you can point me to the gang bangers that stopped shooting into a house because there was children in it? Or maybe the drive by that stopped because there were woman and children present?

Jmetz

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:28 AM

I just went by the article

Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said the incident has "very strong gang overtones" and the father, who has an extensive criminal history, was the intended target. Police are pursuing several angles, McCarthy said.

Yeah the article changed quite a bit from the original.

bulldog

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:33 AM

Child molesters and someone that unintentionally killed a child in a shooting are two very different things. Maybe you can point me to the gang bangers that stopped shooting into a house because there was children in it? Or maybe the drive by that stopped because there were woman and children present? No I agree that not all, but I think a majority of them would not intentionally kill a kid......the ones that do drive by's into house are usually just too stupid to think that far ahead....or fall into that minority of people that don't care.

And yes I do know gang bangers that would shoot into the floor because they thought about who else may be inside. They shot to respect/fear their gang, but intentionally shot low to avoid hitting anyone....true story I swear! When I asked why, he told me " I ain't killing no kids or women".

Jmetz

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:56 AM

Yes, at the hands of masses of religious hordes and tyrannical leaders whose followers were controlled by the same spectre of death if disobedient. Now tens of thousands are slaughtered by the hands of individuals, because of the accessibility to "the tool".

I'm not saying that the removal of guns equates to the removal of evil; I know that it does not. But it does remove a very tangible (and effectvie) means by which it can be exercised on those who are undeserving.

Sadly it really is a "gun culture" thing, like Bob Costas tried to paraphrase Jason Whitlock. We abuse the conveniences available to us.
Guns Don't Kill People, Gun Culture Does (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-13/guns-dont-kill-people-gun-culture-does)

There was no shortage of individuals killing individuals during those times either. Man has been killing man since mans existence, man.

madvlad

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 12:07 PM

No I agree that not all, but I think a majority of them would not intentionally kill a kid......the ones that do drive by's into house are usually just too stupid to think that far ahead....or fall into that minority of people that don't care.

And yes I do know gang bangers that would shoot into the floor because they thought about who else may be inside. They shot to respect/fear their gang, but intentionally shot low to avoid hitting anyone....true story I swear! When I asked why, he told me " I ain't killing no kids or women".

Gangbangers don't care about the lives of anyone, even if the intended target was the father only, if a few bystanders were hit/killed even if not meant to be, they still don't give a shit. To kill one or many is the same thing and do agree with Metz here, guns are not relatively the cause of all this stupid ass violence outbreak, it's the dumbass people that feel more power cause they have a firearm but they would kill regardless of the weapon, hell you can kill someone in a fist fight.

CYCLE_MONKEY

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 12:12 PM

I'm just gonna throw this little tidbit out there. In 2009 (latest year I have data for, and does not buck the trend for previous years), more people were killed in the US by hands and fists than were murdered in all of the UK, Australia, or Canada.

I'm not thinking it's a gun culture thing, it's a US culture thing.

I'll also throw out the tidbit that the violent crime rate is 10 times higher in the UK than in the US.
I wouldn't say it's a "US" culture thing, look at where most killings, assaults, rapes etc. are most prevalent: the inner cities. Then look at the thug mentality and "culture" there......... ;) Live by the sword, die by the sword. In a group that glorifies that kind of crap it's all no surprise.

Wrider

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 12:13 PM

I wouldn't say it's a "US" culture thing, look at where most killings, assaults, rapes etc. are most prevalent: the inner cities. Then look at the thug mentality and "culture" there......... ;) Live by the sword, die by the sword. In a group that glorifies that kind of crap it's all no surprise.

I can agree with that. Now look at where gun ownership per capita is the highest. It's the rural/small towns where violence rarely happens.

CYCLE_MONKEY

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 12:16 PM

I can agree with that. Now look at where gun ownership per capita is the highest. It's the rural/small towns where violence rarely happens.
'Zactly. Because these are law-ABIDING peaceful citizens, who got their weapons the right way, vs. gutter-scum who don't give a fuck about anything but themselves. Exactly why more laws won't do a damn thing to curb violence. A fact completely lost on the (D)ipshits currently in power......:mad:

bulldog

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 12:17 PM

Gangbangers don't care about the lives of anyone, even if the intended target was the father only, if a few bystanders were hit/killed even if not meant to be, they still don't give a shit. To kill one or many is the same thing and do agree with Metz here, guns are not relatively the cause of all this stupid ass violence outbreak, it's the dumbass people that feel more power cause they have a firearm but they would kill regardless of the weapon, hell you can kill someone in a fist fight. Well we will agree to disagree then because I have known a lot of gangbangers growing up and they did care about kids; especially their own. Many have or would kill, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a line they wouldn't cross. Some of my best friends growing up were hardcore gangbangers so I got to know a lot of them on more of a level than most people do. Most gangbangers are in gangs because they just want to be accepted somewhere and they don't have that love in the homes so they turn to a gang for love. This does not mean they are cold hearted killers that feel no remorse and kill babies for fun. Of course there is always exceptions, but this is like saying all Columbians are cocaine dealers because that is what people label them as.

And before anyone judges me and thinks I was a gangbanger or agree with it, the reason I got to know these guys so well is because my mother was a single parent with a low paying teacher job, so I grew up in a poverty neighborhood (trailer park) and got to know these guys when we were like 5 years old and just grew up with them. I've never been in a gang or approved of them and honestly feel most are cowards that can't handle shit on their own.

And my point never was that guns were to blame for the killing of the father, just maybe of the baby since it was a bystander thing. I agree and think the father would have been killed with or without guns as someone had it out for him.

Hoot

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 06:00 PM

Well we will agree to disagree then because I have known a lot of gangbangers growing up and they did care about kids; especially their own. Many have or would kill, but that doesn't mean they didn't have a line they wouldn't cross. Some of my best friends growing up were hardcore gangbangers so I got to know a lot of them on more of a level than most people do. Most gangbangers are in gangs because they just want to be accepted somewhere and they don't have that love in the homes so they turn to a gang for love. This does not mean they are cold hearted killers that feel no remorse and kill babies for fun. Of course there is always exceptions, but this is like saying all Columbians are cocaine dealers because that is what people label them as.

And before anyone judges me and thinks I was a gangbanger or agree with it, the reason I got to know these guys so well is because my mother was a single parent with a low paying teacher job, so I grew up in a poverty neighborhood (trailer park) and got to know these guys when we were like 5 years old and just grew up with them. I've never been in a gang or approved of them and honestly feel most are cowards that can't handle shit on their own.

And my point never was that guns were to blame for the killing of the father, just maybe of the baby since it was a bystander thing. I agree and think the father would have been killed with or without guns as someone had it out for him.

I think you're trying to say that because they are willing to kill someone (not in self defense)but not kill children that they are some how more acceptable?

No.

I do believe that a child's life is worth more, but I don't buy that because they have a line they won't cross makes it better.

It is this type of mentality that feeds into the downward spiral of our culture. Trying to justify a heinous act by comparing it to an even more heinous act.

Edit: read it again. You're not trying to say that, you say you don't condone it.

I know even bad guys have a kind of code of ethics of not preying on kids, but I don't think it makes them any less evil for commiting murder

TransNone13

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 06:58 PM

Yes, at the hands of masses of religious hordes and tyrannical leaders whose followers were controlled by the same spectre of death if disobedient. Now tens of thousands are slaughtered by the hands of individuals, because of the accessibility to "the tool".

I'm not saying that the removal of guns equates to the removal of evil; I know that it does not. But it does remove a very tangible (and effectvie) means by which it can be exercised on those who are undeserving.

Sadly it really is a "gun culture" thing, like Bob Costas tried to paraphrase Jason Whitlock. We abuse the conveniences available to us.
Guns Don't Kill People, Gun Culture Does (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-13/guns-dont-kill-people-gun-culture-does)

You're a fool. You need to look into the militarization of America's police force and thoroughly examine your altruistic, yet idealistic views. Do police need armored vehicles or MRAPs? Nothing's stopping them, enjoy being a fucking sheep.

mcarthd26

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:07 PM

You're a fool. You need to look into the militarization of America's police force and thoroughly examine your altruistic, yet idealistic views. Do police need armored vehicles or MRAPs? Nothing's stopping them, enjoy being a fucking sheep.

This is a fact filled, composed, intelligent contribution to a discussion.

Sorry, I mean in the style of cycle monkey, it's (R)etarded.

TransNone13

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:10 PM

This is a fact filled, composed, intelligent contribution to a discussion.

Want a works cited? I sense sarcasm... I admit a little emotional.

You've probably never done anything to protect the rights and well being of another individual. I don't want to hear it.

mcarthd26

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:22 PM

Want a works cited? I sense sarcasm...

You've probably never done anything to protect the rights and well being of another individual. I don't want to hear it.

And if I have? Does that change whether or not lowering the level of discourse is ineffective and immature tactic?

In your definition of a sheep is there a part about blindly believing information that supports your personal beliefs?

Pot meet kettle

TransNone13

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:24 PM

And if I have? Does that change whether or not lowering the level of discourse is ineffective and immature tactic?

In your definition of a sheep is there a part about blindly believing information that supports your personal beliefs?

Pot meet kettle

Lol, whatever man. I'm entitled to whichever beliefs I choose, as are you. Keep calm and carry on.

Hoot

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:30 PM

And if I have? Does that change whether or not lowering the level of discourse is ineffective and immature tactic?

In your definition of a sheep is there a part about blindly believing information that supports your personal beliefs?

Pot meet kettle

I'm more under the impression that sheep blindly follow those who support their personal beliefs regardless of facts, suppressing evolutionary human instincts hoping that everyone will just play nice.

mcarthd26

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:30 PM

100% agreement, you have every right to have your beliefs and express them.

Quite calm, just enjoy a more productive and civil discussion. Nothing personal.

mcarthd26

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:34 PM

I'm more under the impression that sheep blindly follow those who support their personal beliefs regardless of facts, suppressing evolutionary human instincts hoping that everyone will just play nice.

Excellent impression until the comma, after the comma it's just your opinion which is ok too.

Is that you on the CAT? 15 or 18?

#1Townie

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 07:58 PM

I see what you're getting at here, but the more successful approach would be to outlaw the sale, ownership, production, import, distribution, manufacturing, and otherwise existence of guns in the United States. A pipe dream to be sure, but not something I think a majority of US citizens - maybe even world citizens - (myself included) would be terribly opposed to. :dunno:

The convenience of harm that is inherent to firearms, will always victimize and exploit the lack of self restraint and darkness that unfortunately permeates a segment of humanity. Victims like this child and her dad end up paying the ultimate price in a decision that ultimately takes a fraction of a second. All the gun posturing in the world doesn't change that result. It's little consolation at this point since Johnylah Watkins is now dead and gone and Jonathan Watkins fights for his life in a hospital bed, but I wish he would have had to fight off a knife attack instead.

I cant believe this load of crap just came from you. You know bro i remember eight years or so ago you and i arguing over bush. The war for oil. Illegal wars. Your pure hatred for bush. I will admit i was young dumb and i agreed with givng up "some" rights for the idea of safety. Now i stand back and watch you so willing to give up our LAST line of defense when not so long ago you bitched about the patriot act. So now your cool with the patriot act? Because you know not only is it still in place but obama added to it. Im truly at a loss for words on your whole post. Simple ban them? Didnt we do that with drugs? Correct me if im wrong but iant that still being brought in by the metric ton? Not only is your post ignorant but its dangerous. With an out of control government you are just willing to give up. . This makes me sad for you.

Please for the love of god stop blindly following your team and ruining this country.

Hoot

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 08:01 PM

Excellent impression until the comma, after the comma it's just your opinion which is ok too.

Is that you on the CAT? 15 or 18?

Using your logic I could infer that you don't work and simply collect government funds for a living?

Grant H.

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 08:15 PM

Barn, as someone who has firearms, I find your anti-2A stance very hypocritical.

Bloomberg??? Really? A source for anti-2A info that is funded by one of the most active anti-2A people in the country? Way to go for "reliable" information...

The study in that article is a joke. "Lets only focus on the parts of the world that support our argument"...

See, I can find articles that prove yours wrong...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25671/Violent-crime-worse-Britain-US.html

Guns do not promote violence.

Ghosty

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 08:34 PM

Of course there is always exceptions, but this is like saying all Columbians are cocaine dealers because that is what people label them as.
Damir loves blow! He fits the profile perfectly.

:D

(KIDDING!)

~Barn~

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 09:47 PM

You're a fool. You need to look into the militarization of America's police force and thoroughly examine your altruistic, yet idealistic views. Do police need armored vehicles or MRAPs? Nothing's stopping them, enjoy being a fucking sheep.

If I'm a fool or a fucking sheep, do realize that your name calling only exposes you. You're basically the type of person who "needs" their gun. The kind of guy that I'd peg for "soft" in the moments just after having met you. People who know you well, would know exactly what I'm talking about, but I'll reply kindly regardless and spare you the dissection.

I'll just remind you though, that your time on this planet is short Mr. TransNone13, and you can carry the remainder of it gripping to the fears that consume you and try to convince yourself that you're the last line of defense your "Founding Fathers" would be proud to have protecting them from a government that wants you all under their thumb! Or, you can love your fellow man, and think with a little bit more breadth; even if it does have a couple of tablespoons of altruism in it. I certainly am not making anything up, and I can almost assure you that as a man, nay a "family" man, that I am in far less personal danger of being vicitimized by anybody than say... somebody like you. That is unless of course you're already drawn-down on him/she/them. :roll:

...

And as for you Clownie... :lol:

mcarthd26

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:00 PM

Using your logic I could infer that you don't work and simply collect government funds for a living?

Totally confused now.

CAT = catapult, I.e. used on aircraft carriers to launch aircraft like the F-15 or F-18

Was a question based on your avatar, I'm an aero guy and was curious if you were a pilot.

Hoot

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 10:20 PM

Totally confused now.

CAT = catapult, I.e. used on aircraft carriers to launch aircraft like the F-15 or F-18

Was a question based on your avatar, I'm an aero guy and was curious if you were a pilot.

Lol, ok good that makes two of us.

I was confused by that, thought you meant CAT like construction equipment, stereotyping me by my statements.

Not a pilot. Just and old avatar I've used for some years now.

Drano

Tue Mar 12th, 2013, 11:11 PM

Totally confused now.

CAT = catapult, I.e. used on aircraft carriers to launch aircraft like the F-15 or F-18

Was a question based on your avatar, I'm an aero guy and was curious if you were a pilot.

In my love of being an insufferable know-it-all, the F-15 is a USAF fighter which, afaik, never saw service on an aircraft carrier. You may be confusing it with the F-14. ;)

#1Townie

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 04:53 AM

If I'm a fool or a fucking sheep, do realize that your name calling only exposes you. You're basically the type of person who "needs" their gun. The kind of guy that I'd peg for "soft" in the moments just after having met you. People who know you well, would know exactly what I'm talking about, but I'll reply kindly regardless and spare you the dissection.

I'll just remind you though, that your time on this planet is short Mr. TransNone13, and you can carry the remainder of it gripping to the fears that consume you and try to convince yourself that you're the last line of defense your "Founding Fathers" would be proud to have protecting them from a government that wants you all under their thumb! Or, you can love your fellow man, and think with a little bit more breadth; even if it does have a couple of tablespoons of altruism in it. I certainly am not making anything up, and I can almost assure you that as a man, nay a "family" man, that I am in far less personal danger of being vicitimized by anybody than say... somebody like you. That is unless of course you're already drawn-down on him/she/them. :roll:

And as for you Clownie... :lol:

Yeah im clownie. I'm truly not trolling you bro. I find it very odd the switch in your political views. How can you sit here and think everything is okay? Our budget is a joke. Our government is okay with killing us citizens without due process. Not that due process even exists anymore thanks to ndaa. Illegal drone wars in multiple countries. A country willing to give into fear at every time something bad happens. Bro this country is in bad shape. To argue this would be like telling me the doesnt set in the west.

You say YOU can protect yourself. Thats great. I can too. I dont NEED a firearm. Just like i dont need a condom. I have both for simple protection. And just so we are clear he isnt arguing for the pro 2a for you he is doing it for your kids and possible your grandchildren. Mark my words they are going to be the ones who have to clean up the mess we leave them.

It is still funny to me how you were once so pissed about bush listening to your phone calls but could give a fuck about 2a. Wow bro just fucking wow.

madvlad

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 07:02 AM

Damir loves blow! He fits the profile perfectly.

:D

(KIDDING!)

lol google which is the #1 country that consumes and buys blow among other drugs... Spain and you guys are coming in at a nice #2 so there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_prevalence_of_cocaine_use) and also Colombia (not Columbia, we are not Canadian :lol:) is #2 in producing now and I sure hope we go to last in that list (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/24/peru-cocaine-production-global-drug-conference_n_1622467.html)... I produce it, not consume it **jk government officials if you're watching this, that statement was purely out of joking purposes and in no shape or form acknowledges that I am a drug dealer ** carry on with the topic at hand :D

dirkterrell

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:53 AM

I'll just remind you though, that your time on this planet is short Mr. TransNone13, and you can carry the remainder of it gripping to the fears that consume you and try to convince yourself that you're the last line of defense your "Founding Fathers" would be proud to have protecting them from a government that wants you all under their thumb! Or, you can love your fellow man, and think with a little bit more breadth;

It is because I love my fellow citizens that I am against forcing them, their children and their grandchildren to live in a disarmed society. A disarmed society is a breeding ground for totalitarians and the evils they perpetrate. Their rise, especially in a heterogeneous society where religious beliefs or social mores do not provide the necessary leverage against those who would violate the rights of others on a large scale, in practically inevitable. The experiment has been run, and the nearly unbelievable carnage wrought is staggering, nearly 300 MILLION unarmed civilians murdered in the 20th century by totalitarian governments. 300 MILLION defenseless human beings murdered, Brandon, because all they had was their voice in opposition to tyranny. My altruistic thinking is to follow the advice of the Founders, very learned men in the behavior of mankind, and to heed what I have learned in my own reading of the history of human behavior, and prevent the one thing that is known to be the first step in the subjugation of human beings: remove their ability to defend themselves against the violence of government.

Living in what has been a relatively stable situation during our lives has fooled many of us into thinking that we are immune to such evil. The aftermath of hurricane Katrina should have opened the eyes of people prone to such thinking, when the thin veneer of society was peeled away, and people were left to fend for themselves against both criminals and government authorities. With an economic disaster brewing in this country, due in no small part to governmental malfeasance, we may see such a situation on a national scale, with government grasping to maintain control during the collapse. Human institutions seem to follow such a trajectory. Corruption seems to grow over time. Bad companies need to be wiped out (but governmental influence has prevented that in recent years). And, as Jefferson reminded us, so do governments. We must be ready to deal with that when the time arrives.

And for those that say such thinking is anachronistic because of the overwhelming firepower available to government forces, you should look into the history of guerilla warfare and understand that a civil war has a very different dynamic than a war against a foreign enemy. There have been recent examples, in Libya for example, and ongoing ones like Syria.

The outcomes of such conflicts are not at all guaranteed to result in liberty for the people. I am still hopeful that the majority of my fellow citizens will see the advantage of being armed so that the temptation for the rise of a tyrant can forever be avoided here. I am hopeful that we can recognize the self-inflicted divisions we have because of our blind allegiance to political ideologies, and move towards dealing with the real problems that face us, rather than constantly having our energies diverted by those who use the power of government to take advantage of us. Abuse comes too easily to those who have an advantage over others, and being armed is one of the necessities when avoiding abuse by governments. Intelligence and free communication are others. But, you can think and talk all you like. When a tyrant aims the ultimate violence at you, being armed is the final defense against him.

bulldog

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:57 AM

lol google which is the #1 country that consumes and buys blow among other drugs... Spain and you guys are coming in at a nice #2 so there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_prevalence_of_cocaine_use) and also Colombia (not Columbia, we are not Canadian :lol:) is #2 in producing now and I sure hope we go to last in that list (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/24/peru-cocaine-production-global-drug-conference_n_1622467.html)... I produce it, not consume it **jk government officials if you're watching this, that statement was purely out of joking purposes and in no shape or form acknowledges that I am a drug dealer ** carry on with the topic at hand :D So your dad is not Pablo Escobar? :dunno: :lol:

~Barn~

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 09:39 AM

Gun violence.
If you're not part of the solution...

Jmetz

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 09:59 AM

Gun violence.
If you're not part of the solution...

Phew.. I'm glad I'm part of the solution as my guns aren't out committing any violence.

~Barn~

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 10:06 AM

Phew.. I'm glad I'm part of the solution as my guns aren't out committing any violence.

But that's the thing, you're a sensible guy and gun owner. You're not out lobbying to hand them out at HS Prom or voter registration or whatever, like some people on this forum would have. That said, I am pretty glad that one pistol didn't go off, when you dropped it out of your pocket that one time. :p

madvlad

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 10:22 AM

So your dad is not Pablo Escobar? :dunno: :lol:

IF he was I wouldn't be working my ass off to make shit money for just shits and giggles :lol:

bulldog

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 10:33 AM

IF he was I wouldn't be working my ass off to make shit money for just shits and giggles :lol: Weird as I thought there was a lot of money in producing cocaine....cuz that is what all Colombians do right! Just kidding man! :D

madvlad

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 10:33 AM

No the line now is "That's all that Peruvians do" :lol:

bulldog

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 10:34 AM

No the line now is "That's all that Peruvians do" :lol: :lol: Man you can't let them take over!!!!

Jmetz

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 10:54 AM

~Barn~

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 10:57 AM

Feels like 13 years ago. :lol:

Keyser Soze

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 11:29 AM

Wrong neighborhood

madvlad

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 11:36 AM

:lol: Man you can't let them take over!!!!

Sure we can and I hope they do so we can get rid of that bullshit in my country and be better... I mean for all I hope that no country would produce that crap but well easier said than done.

bulldog

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 12:04 PM

Sure we can and I hope they do so we can get rid of that bullshit in my country and be better... I mean for all I hope that no country would produce that crap but well easier said than done. I actually saw a program where it showed that producing cocaine in Colombia pays a lot of poor families...they get paid crap, but still get paid. As much as it sucks, it does seem like it has some benefits for workers...because lets be honest, cocaine is not going away!

madvlad

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 12:40 PM

I actually saw a program where it showed that producing cocaine in Colombia pays a lot of poor families...they get paid crap, but still get paid. As much as it sucks, it does seem like it has some benefits for workers...because lets be honest, cocaine is not going away!

The program is lying and it's shit, they'll NEVER reveal the truth behind that.... They don't pay shit for the hard labor that it is and the constant threat the farmers and their families live 24/7 if they choose not to do it, so it's not good at all. These fucks make MILLIONS for dealing that shit while poor farmers make about $100 a month maximum for bricks and bricks of pure cocaine which then they overprofit even more by cutting it down with brick powder, cement powder, foot powder etc.... It is sad ass shit, that's what that is.

bulldog

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 12:48 PM

The program is lying and it's shit, they'll NEVER reveal the truth behind that.... They don't pay shit for the hard labor that it is and the constant threat the farmers and their families live 24/7 if they choose not to do it, so it's not good at all. These fucks make MILLIONS for dealing that shit while poor farmers make about $100 a month maximum for bricks and bricks of pure cocaine which then they overprofit even more by cutting it down with brick powder, cement powder, foot powder etc.... It is sad ass shit, that's what that is. No the program showed that....some village guy made a bunch and they paid him next to nothing for hours of labor he did and showed the other people making tons of cash.

Didn't know they get threatened though as program left that off :x

madvlad

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 01:03 PM

No the program showed that....some village guy made a bunch and they paid him next to nothing for hours of labor he did and showed the other people making tons of cash.

Didn't know they get threatened though as program left that off :x

The program is skewed brother, they show the "easy" side of it obviously but the reality is another. This country has never seen the level of poverty and life these poor people live and they have no choice due to it's either that or they starve or die... People here have choice, whoever wants to be poor here is because they're lazy, not because there's no opportunity but I love that people in the so called "ghettos" here compare to third world country life.... motherfucker PLEASE! Compton and Bronx and all those so called ghettos are like Cherry creek compared to our shit... Our gangsters in the real ghettos will make you shit your pants, living out of card board boxes, with tore down clothing and stealing or killing to survive, not to pretend.

bulldog

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 02:34 PM

The program is skewed brother, they show the "easy" side of it obviously but the reality is another. This country has never seen the level of poverty and life these poor people live and they have no choice due to it's either that or they starve or die... People here have choice, whoever wants to be poor here is because they're lazy, not because there's no opportunity but I love that people in the so called "ghettos" here compare to third world country life.... motherfucker PLEASE! Compton and Bronx and all those so called ghettos are like Cherry creek compared to our shit... Our gangsters in the real ghettos will make you shit your pants, living out of card board boxes, with tore down clothing and stealing or killing to survive, not to pretend. Yup, these people were making cocaine to survive (eat) and nothing else! Really it was sad, so I am was not meaning it was a good thing.

Oh yeah, I agree 100% as I have seen how ghettos like Brazil are! It really makes us realize how fortunate we are; even if people bitch about gun laws it can be way worse. Hell some places are lucky to have clean water!

madvlad

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 03:10 PM

Yes sir, those pavelas in Brazil can get real tricky just due to very tight and low visibility spots in which cops/swat or people in general can get ambushed hella easy.

CYCLE_MONKEY

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 03:22 PM

This is a fact filled, composed, intelligent contribution to a discussion.

Sorry, I mean in the style of cycle monkey, it's (R)etarded.
In the style of mcarthd26 how about you suck my (D)ick? :)

CYCLE_MONKEY

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 03:26 PM

It is because I love my fellow citizens that I am against forcing them, their children and their grandchildren to live in a disarmed society. A disarmed society is a breeding ground for totalitarians and the evils they perpetrate. Their rise, especially in a heterogeneous society where religious beliefs or social mores do not provide the necessary leverage against those who would violate the rights of others on a large scale, in practically inevitable. The experiment has been run, and the nearly unbelievable carnage wrought is staggering, nearly 300 MILLION unarmed civilians murdered in the 20th century by totalitarian governments. 300 MILLION defenseless human beings murdered, Brandon, because all they had was their voice in opposition to tyranny. My altruistic thinking is to follow the advice of the Founders, very learned men in the behavior of mankind, and to heed what I have learned in my own reading of the history of human behavior, and prevent the one thing that is known to be the first step in the subjugation of human beings: remove their ability to defend themselves against the violence of government.

Living in what has been a relatively stable situation during our lives has fooled many of us into thinking that we are immune to such evil. The aftermath of hurricane Katrina should have opened the eyes of people prone to such thinking, when the thin veneer of society was peeled away, and people were left to fend for themselves against both criminals and government authorities. With an economic disaster brewing in this country, due in no small part to governmental malfeasance, we may see such a situation on a national scale, with government grasping to maintain control during the collapse. Human institutions seem to follow such a trajectory. Corruption seems to grow over time. Bad companies need to be wiped out (but governmental influence has prevented that in recent years). And, as Jefferson reminded us, so do governments. We must be ready to deal with that when the time arrives.

And for those that say such thinking is anachronistic because of the overwhelming firepower available to government forces, you should look into the history of guerilla warfare and understand that a civil war has a very different dynamic than a war against a foreign enemy. There have been recent examples, in Libya for example, and ongoing ones like Syria.

The outcomes of such conflicts are not at all guaranteed to result in liberty for the people. I am still hopeful that the majority of my fellow citizens will see the advantage of being armed so that the temptation for the rise of a tyrant can forever be avoided here. I am hopeful that we can recognize the self-inflicted divisions we have because of our blind allegiance to political ideologies, and move towards dealing with the real problems that face us, rather than constantly having our energies diverted by those who use the power of government to take advantage of us. Abuse comes too easily to those who have an advantage over others, and being armed is one of the necessities when avoiding abuse by governments. Intelligence and free communication are others. But, you can think and talk all you like. When a tyrant aims the ultimate violence at you, being armed is the final defense against him.
Excellent post!

mcarthd26

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 03:33 PM

In the style of mcarthd26 how about you suck my (D)ick? :)

Probably what you want more than anything.

CYCLE_MONKEY

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 07:27 PM

Probably what you want more than anything.
Definately what YOU want more than anything...... LOLZ.....

~Barn~

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:18 PM

Definately what YOU want more than anything...... LOLZ.....

Sweet remix of the original punchline. :up:

#1Townie

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:19 PM

But that's the thing, you're a sensible guy and gun owner. You're not out lobbying to hand them out at HS Prom or voter registration or whatever, like some people on this forum would have. That said, I am pretty glad that one pistol didn't go off, when you dropped it out of your pocket that one time. :p

So ummm care to show me where ANYONE is trying to hand guns out? I think you are making the typical leap from no more restrictions to give everything on the face of the planet a gun. The reason why people are fighting anymore restrictions is because it never stops at one thing. You know the whole give a inch take a mile deal?

~Barn~

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:20 PM

Embellishment yo. Just one of the many services I offer.

Dietrich_R1

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:22 PM

#1Townie

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:43 PM

Figures.

#1Townie

Wed Mar 13th, 2013, 08:50 PM

Even though the militia is a country's BEST defense, even over the military... let's disarm the US. Gun violence is over the top w/ freaks, crooks, & criminals.

This way, country's that are fully armed can come & blow us away -OR- we could enjoy our own government taking way to much control (much like it is doing already... =:-)

No way rich our country is perfect besides this gun problem. We aren't sending drones into other countries without permission and blowing shit up. Our atf isnt arming drug loards. No way obama errrr i mean god is perfect and only he knows how to save us. Dont argue with him because thats racist. Dont argue against his views because thats just ignorant. Whatever you do dont use facts and numbers along with history because you will be called a nut job.