PDA

View Full Version : For experienced riders offering to teach n00bs, some thoughts



bornwildnfree
Wed May 8th, 2013, 08:12 AM
Ok, so Dirk's thread got me thinking and we do have a LOT of awesome riders on here offering to help train those who are new to our addiction. I thought I would share some things I've learned along the way. As with all advice, it is simply that, advice. If you find it helpful, great, if not, cool.

1) Remember that for n00b riders, every moment on a motorcycle can feel like A Moment as they say in Motogp. Things that seem as simple as making a left hand turn from a stop light can be absolutely terrifying to a new rider (raises hand, my first few left hand turns were a disaster). About 90% of the new riders I talk to find riding really, really hard, but so fun they won't give it up. Keep that in mind. If it's been a long time since you've felt any sort of panic on a bike, since you've felt human, not invincible, try and put yourself in a place where something new was terrifying, not for a moment, but for turn after turn after stoplight after highway entrance. Yes, most of them will get better with time, but it's not instant. Things you take for granted and do without thought require a tremendous amount of brain power on their part to do. Patience and try not to give them that, "Why aren't you getting this." look.

2) A new rider is not always able to describe what is wrong with any accuracy. They only know that the bike is not responding the way you say it should. Do not automatically discount what they are saying just because they are new. Listen and work with them to see if it's technique or something on their bike or maybe something in their head that can be fixed.

Two examples:

a) I spent the summer of 2010 miserable. I knew I was a better rider but each time I went out, corners were terrifying. Everyone under the sun kept telling me different techniques and some of them helped a little, but I never got faster really and would end each ride extremly frusterated with myself. It wasn't until I bought my Z and Spooph rode my SV home that the problem was discovered. My front suspension had been damaged in my wreck in 2009 and I had been basically riding without fluid in my front forks, so pretty much no front suspension. The bike would dip badly entering a turn and then wallow the whole way through trying to stand upright. He told me he wouldn't ride that bike again if I paid him and then gave me props for sticking with it like I did. I had taken the SV to the dealership to have it checked after the accident and they assured me it was fine, although they didn't ride it so not sure how they could tell by just looking. They're the dealership, they should know better right ;-)? I had talked to many different riders and they all assumed I was using improper technique. Had someone checked my bike, the problem would have presented itself quickly and I was too new to know the difference. Could be mechanical.

b) I took the Advanced Rider Course spring of 2012. At that time, I had a good 50,000 miles under my belt, and felt alright about taking the course. The only problem was, I sucked at slow speed maneuvers and I knew it. The riding portion of the class made me break out in a cold sweat, but I figured the worst that could happen is I drop the bike and replace some plastics. I was right, and miserable right from the first exorcise which had us doing v turns around cones spaced about 10 feet apart. I could do most of them by basically forcing the nose around and using the brake, but that only gets you so far. I almost got kicked out and I told the instructors I didn't know what was wrong but the bike wasn't able to turn like they asked me too. Maybe I needed to get the suspension checked. Later on, an instructor saw what I was doing wrong. It wasn't the bike, it was because I was not wiggling my hips. It was a revelation. I knew I was supposed to do that at high speed but had been told very early on not to do it at low speed (probably because I was very very wobbly early on and they didn't want me to fall over). Suddenly the class became a breeze.

Remember, they really don't know what they are doing and are not always easily able to figure it out or even vocalize what the problem is. Listen and ask questions until the issue is resolved.

3) Remember to tell the newer rider that you will be over exaggerating your movements and that they won't need to make such big movements and smaller is better esp at the speeds they are going. Turns out I was mimicking exactly what Spooph and Spiderman were doing, but I wasn't going fast enough which tightened my lines and pulled me too sharply into curves. Once I gentled my movements and then went faster, everything got a lot less ZMOG I'm gonna crash.

To all the folks who spent countless hours waiting for me on rides, who gave me advice, who patiently explained the whys and hows, Thank you! To all those riders who are willing to pass on their knowledge and take a n00b under their wing, thank you!

dirkterrell
Wed May 8th, 2013, 08:59 AM
These are all excellent points. I started riding on an RD400 and I still remember the simultaneously terrifying and exhilarating moments in learning to ride. I was fortunate to have good mentors. My goal is to eliminate the terrifying and amplify the exhilarating. The thing for all mentors to remember is that it is always about those we are helping, not ourselves. Patience and a willing ear are a must.

willb003
Wed May 8th, 2013, 07:07 PM
I had taken the SV to the dealership to have it checked after the accident and they assured me it was fine, although they didn't ride it so not sure how they could tell by just looking. They're the dealership, they should know better right ;-)?

You can tell if a fork has fluid in it with out riding it. You can hear the fluid moving when you compress and decompress it. Granted it can have the wrong amount in it as well which would cause problems.

bornwildnfree
Wed May 8th, 2013, 08:00 PM
I'm pretty sure that simply walking around the bike, wiggling the shifter lever and pronouncing the bike perfectly sound to ride can not possibly diagnose an issue with the suspension. Now, I could be wrong and maybe the front forks will make noise when you come near them with a super secret password that only dealership knows lol. Now I know what to look for, and I know to have my suspension checked at least every couple of years and to have the bike fully checked out if I go down. The sad thing is, that wasn't the only dealership that missed something after a wreck. It's happened twice because they simply focused on the cosmetic and failed to look for anything mechanical until a couple of weeks in. That's why the bike goes to Jim from now on.

FZRguy
Wed May 8th, 2013, 11:26 PM
I just use a super secret password! ;)

Clovis
Thu May 9th, 2013, 12:14 AM
Good points Christi!!

I'll add some phrases that helped me along the way.

"Follow the yellow brick road" - referring to the double yellow line. Follow the line visually in a corner if you need a reference and can't see around to the other side. Christi told me this.

"Kiss your mirrors" -- Refers to a riding position in corners. Shift the bike under you and get close (ie "kiss" your mirrors)

"If you're not having fun (ie you're scared) you're going too fast." Slow down.

Ride on the balls of your feet (when riding aggressively and in corners.

"Look through the corner" -- a typical driver is only looking 50 feet ahold beyond the car. Many corners you are able to look through to the 2nd or 3rd corner. You're looking for oncoming traffic to determine when it's safe to pass on a double yellow.

don't pass on a double yellow ;)

Look ahead and as far as you can. Where your eyes look, the bike will follow. It's almost black magic sometimes and it takes awhile to get used to... but you can complete a corner without looking at it (ie looking far ahead).

Ride at your own pace. A lot of riders gain a high level (and falsely placed) of confidence after a month or two of riding. Forget keeping up with the big boys or looking cool. That's how you will crash.

I crashed in my first 3 months of riding by going into a corner too fast and not having the experience to pull it out. Instead I became fixated on the guard rail and slammed right into it.

To echo something Christi said -- don't mimic the body position of the rider in front of you. If you're used to seeing people hang off the bike or stick out a knee in the corners... then riding behind me will trip you out.

My own personal style is stay upright on the bike at roughly 90 degrees and shift the bike under me. This has the misleading visual effect of making a twisty corner appear as a sweeper.

I can't tell you the number of times friends have told me "Clovis rides fast and he doesn't look like he's even trying" or "I followed Clovis into a corner at 70 and he never changed his body position... then I hit the corner and got a nasty surprise. Oh shit!" (sharper then I expected).

Learn your own style, become comfortable with it and disregard the riding position of everyone else. To be honest a lot of that hanging off, dragging a knee, ect is not needed but it's done purely for looks.

I did it too until I realized I was faster, had better control staying upright on my bike regardless of the corner. This is largely due to the type of bikes I ride (Sport bikes (not to be confused with super sports, ie croch rockets) and sport tourers. I ride bikes that have a standard upright riding position.

Engine break before you grab a handful of break. The engine breaking on our bikes is incredibly effective at dumping speed without risk of a wheel lock up.

Bueller
Thu May 9th, 2013, 07:20 AM
My own personal style is stay upright on the bike at roughly 90 degrees and shift the bike under me.


Don't do this.

gregr
Thu May 9th, 2013, 08:07 AM
Engine break before you grab a handful of break. The engine breaking on our bikes is incredibly effective at dumping speed without risk of a wheel lock up.

Great list of tips. On this one - you're still at risk of rear wheel sliding if you don't have a slipper clutch, no?

(Or on my bike, a "slipper-like action", whatever that is. Probably means the computer considers whether it thinks you're slipper-worthy. Oil dirty? Bugs on windscreen? No slipper for you! :)

bornwildnfree
Thu May 9th, 2013, 08:16 AM
See, I told you you'd never forget to Follow the Yellow Brick Road! I really should have someone take a video of me doing that talk and post it. LMAO

Zach929rr
Thu May 9th, 2013, 09:09 AM
Great list of tips. On this one - you're still at risk of rear wheel sliding if you don't have a slipper clutch, no?

(Or on my bike, a "slipper-like action", whatever that is. Probably means the computer considers whether it thinks you're slipper-worthy. Oil dirty? Bugs on windscreen? No slipper for you! :)

"backing it in" takes a lot of front brake and aggressive steering input to unweight the rear wheel.

DiddysR6
Thu May 9th, 2013, 09:39 AM
This should go without saying but. Practice, Practice, Practice... then practice some more. Back when I started riding the canyons in early 01 or 02 They would scare the crap outta me. My friends would all be hauling ass, and I would be trying my best to keep up. I luckily never went down, but had some good scares of wide turns, ending up on the shoulder etc. How I got better was just going up by myself. I used to live in arvada, and could get to golden gate in about 10 minutes. I used to go 3-4 times a week in the early mornings, or after work, and just ride at my own pace, and each time I would get a little faster, and a little lower into the turns. SO my advise to any new rider would be to go at your own speed, and go as often as possible

asp_125
Thu May 9th, 2013, 09:45 AM
For noobs reading this thread. You're not going to learn to ride better by reading an internet forum. Get out there and practice, preferably with an experienced rider to give you feedback. You might get comfortable with your bike, but you might also be developing bad habits that go unnoticed. Sure, read up on all the books etc, but take a class, do a rider coach session, have someone film you so you can self critique.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Thu May 9th, 2013, 10:54 AM
Excellent thread Christi!

My advice for noobs? Buy a small dirtbike and gear. Ride a lot. Crash a lot. The same basic skills of leaning and coutersteering that work on a bicycle work on a dirtbike, and then also on a streetbike. Generally, falling off in the dirt is EXPECTED, and usually you dust yourself off and get going again. I think a lot of reasons noobs crash is that they're so AFRAID of crashing they lock up and let fear take over and they fall or run into something they could easily avoided if they were able to just react. I think dirtbikes help a ton with the physical skills (learning to save slides, how to initiate turns, etc.) as well as the mental aspect (not obsessing about falling down).

Best advice? Ride your own ride, and ride within your limits. Do NOT let yourself be pressured into riding at someone else's pace.

Chaos
Thu May 9th, 2013, 11:03 AM
My advice for noobs? Buy a small dirtbike and gear. Ride a lot. Crash a lot.

Exactly! Good advice.
My dad had me up on a dirtbike at 6 years old. When I was just 15 with a learners permit, my dad and I went on a 3000 mile round trip ride with zero issues. I had been riding motorcycles for 9 years at that point already! Been riding a total of 33 years now.

bornwildnfree
Thu May 9th, 2013, 11:33 AM
Um...guys...this isn't the thread for advice for n00bs. This is the thread for advice to those of us who want to teach the n00bs so they can be not n00bs.

Chaos
Thu May 9th, 2013, 11:46 AM
Sorry....
<------Noob

DiddysR6
Thu May 9th, 2013, 11:48 AM
Um...guys...this isn't the thread for advice for n00bs. This is the thread for advice to those of us who want to teach the n00bs so they can be not n00bs.

Well shit....:think: I fail

rifleshooter
Thu May 9th, 2013, 12:00 PM
Don't do this.

Yeah, I read that and I was like "what?"

rifleshooter
Thu May 9th, 2013, 12:02 PM
For noobs reading this thread. You're not going to learn to ride better by reading an internet forum. Get out there and practice, preferably with an experienced rider to give you feedback. You might get comfortable with your bike, but you might also be developing bad habits that go unnoticed. Sure, read up on all the books etc, but take a class, do a rider coach session, have someone film you so you can self critique.

This. What he said.

Safe riding cures bad riding, but only with corrective and constructive criticism.

Fumet5uNo
Thu May 9th, 2013, 02:09 PM
For noobs reading this thread. You're not going to learn to ride better by reading an internet forum. Get out there and practice, preferably with an experienced rider to give you feedback. You might get comfortable with your bike, but you might also be developing bad habits that go unnoticed. Sure, read up on all the books etc, but take a class, do a rider coach session, have someone film you so you can self critique.

+++++