Davis Service Center, Montrose CO

[Aaron]

On the way out to our Devil's Spine trip, I had a few experienced motorcyclists tell me my rear tire wasn't going to go the distance. I called several shops in Montrose, CO, and chose Davis because they had the tires I liked and said they could get me in right away.


There was another shop that could get me in right away, but he didn't have the tires I wanted if given the choice.


After getting my bike to them, I waited while they worked on Cornfed's bike. Now I knew his was before mine, but when told I could be gotten in right away, I figured they had more than one tech. Turns out they do, but the owner doesn't trust the other to work on sportbikes since he's new. 2 hours later Cornfed's bike was done (And reasonably priced too).


My bike was next, and got done in a normal period of time for tires. About halfway through it I asked the service manager if he could cash me out so we could get on the road ASAP. He told me no, he had to wait until the service was done. This struck me as odd, but I couldn't really say a whole lot. Looking back it's probably because he was scared about what I'd say at his price.


The bike got finished, and then came the bill. $648 for a pair of Michelin Pilot Road 3s installed. I kid you not. $648. And my wheels aren't some crazy size, they are the same as every other literbike.


So searching online I found the tires for an average of $340, less in some places but $340 was the norm. I called Lincoln Davis today, he's the owner. He was nice enough, but didn't flex on the price and stood by it. He tried to blame it on the $35 in taxes and $5 in tire recycling fee. After that, he told me he would send me a $40 gift card to his shop. So, by his words, $40 off would put his tire prices within $60 of his competitors, which he felt was reasonable. I don't agree that prices 20-33% higher than all of his competitors is reasonable, but if it makes him more money I bet it is from his eyes.


So I've got a $40 gift card, which almost irritates me more because that's basically forcing me to spend more money at his shop, unless someone can find something useful there for $40 or less. And considering how his tires are priced $40 off anything above $40 is probably still considerably higher than Revzilla.


I guess you live and you learn, hopefully others don't have to live it when going to Davis Service Center.

[madvlad]

What kind of tires did you get? Install on a bike at most shops is about $100ish bucks. That seems excessive. You can pay for car tires with that kind of money

[birchyboy]

I dont think it's unusual to not cash out before the job is done, especially for a new customer. If they ran into an issue, they'd have to ring you up again for another part. You didn't ask what the price was going to be? Only if they had the tires you wanted?

[TEC 2.0]

Considering a set from Revzilla can be bought for $295 with free shipping and Performance cycle charges $40.00 to M&B, that service should have come with a 5 gallon bucket of vaseline.

[Jmetz]

You didn't ask what the price was going to be? Only if they had the tires you wanted?

^This.
While the price is rediculous its kind of your own fault for not finding out the cost ahead of time. It's one thing if they bait and switched you but it sounds like you didn't do your homework.

[rybo]

Beyond that RevZilla, Motorcycle Warehouse, MC Tire Emporium (insert made up internet tire seller here) buy tires by the 100's. I can't imagine that there is a huge demand for sportbike tires in Montrose (I could be wrong). So the Davis cycle center is probably paying a stiff premium to even have those tires in the store.

I don't think $600 for a set of sportbike tires is reasonable. That being said, I also think that to some extent the Wal-Mart nation mentality has an effect. We've become very accustomed to paying discount prices on everything. When margins are razor thin the little guys can't stay in business because they can never make up for it on volume.

Just another perspective.

[bulldog]

He probably figured you were some rich guy when you didn't ask the price....only rich guys shop without checking the price tag right :dunno:

Any frugal person would ask the price ahead of time...I would :lol:


Plus seems like you paid for convenience and I highly doubt Montrose has a lot of places to shop around like in Denver. Overall at least you got the tire when you needed it. Take it as a lesson learned....

[3point5]

I can't imagine that there is a huge demand for sportbike tires in Montrose (I could be wrong).

I agree with this and the 'western colorado' additive…everything is a little bit more expensive out there…I was out there for work back in 2006/2008 and it was a little shocking how much they charge for goods.

Does it explain $650? maybe, maybe not…

[Repsol a095]

I was at the shop with Aaron and they had a decent supply of sport tires. They also had quite a few sportbikes waiting in the storage area to be worked on.

I get charging some kind of rush fee, but the tires were already marked at full retail. Even if they were not in demand in Montrose, the dealer is already making money on the tires themselves. Charging $100+ a wheel to mount and balance is excessive.

What sucks is that the service writer was great, the tech was even better, and everyone there was extremely friendly. It stinks that they seemingly took advantage of a situation to make the extra dollar.

I would be curious to call around to local dealers like Fay to see what they charge. I understand that they are not in Montrose, but I would be curious to see if there is a difference.

[powers]

They zinged me for a rear a few years ago also. I was in Dolores and noticed my 2CT was about shot with another 2 days of riding. We had lunch in Telluride while I made some phone calls. They were all I could find, it was a Sat late afternoon, and I was pretty much screwed.

I got a Shinko something rear because it was there cheapest rear tire that would fit my R6. The tire was around $170 and the install was ~$80. They squeezed me in and saved my bacon, but I would never shop there again unless I had to.

They also had my chain way too tight, but I couldn't adjust it on the trip,

[TFOGGuys]

Montrose is a seller's market, unfortunately. I price my tires to be competitive with both local and internet vendors. I'm interested in having repeat customers and referrals, so I keep the costs of service in line. In Montrose (and many other small towns) there is a large difference between "local" pricing and what they charge travelers that they think they will never see again.

[GMR]

Montrose is a seller's market, unfortunately. I price my tires to be competitive with both local and internet vendors. I'm interested in having repeat customers and referrals, so I keep the costs of service in line. In Montrose (and many other small towns) there is a large difference between "local" pricing and what they charge travelers that they think they will never see again.

what do you charge for mount and balance, whether tires bought in store or brought in?

[Cornfed]

I'm really ambivalent about the whole experience. On one hand they were very friendly and helpful. They could have told us to leave the bikes til next week or pound sand. But they didnt, the put our bikes ahead of everything else they had in the shop. Upon first inspection they did not have my fork seals, yet through some cross checking they found the ZX10 seals were the same as my GSXR seals, which in turn saved my trip. The price? Fair, I'm sure I could have got them done cheaper, and arguably better, in Fort Collins. But, my fork seals no longer leak, and it was done with factory parts by a factory tech, two thumbs up.
Now with Aaron, the truth is the price of the tires were marked on them. The labor was not negotiated before work was started so that is another matter. As Aaron said many times, "if a man in the dessert wants water he's gotta pay for it". He got a great set of tires that he needed and it allowed him to enjoy the rest of the trip. Having said that, at $650, brother, you got bent, hard.

[bulldog]

Well consider it cheaper than crashing on a bad tire :dunno:


:idea:These are the things I try to tell myself

[TFOGGuys]

what do you charge for mount and balance, whether tires bought in store or brought in?

For tires purchased from us, we charge $12.99 each to mount and balance off the bike, or $29.99 each on the bike (sport bikes and dual sports; Harleys and most metric cruisers are $42.99 for the rear).

For customer supplied tires, we charge $25.99 off bike, and $40.99 on bike, with cruiser rears being $54.99.

Some touring bikes are somewhat higher for the rear, on bike(GL1100, GL1200, and GL1500, Yamaha Venture, and similar).

[rforsythe]

The "on the bike" part is kinda what bit you here too, yeah it was way overpriced but (a) they had to do ALL of the labor, and (b) you asked for a rush-gotta-have-it-now job. Price sending something by FedEx priority overnight vs letting 2/3-day shipping do its thing, I think you will find that urgency comes with a massive premium. If you really need it that bad you'll pay it, and the business owner saw an opportunity to cater to that need.

Like Bulldog also said, $650 would seem cheap had you crashed from a bad tire coming apart. Next time plan your trip ahead a bit better and save some money.

[Cornfed]

Next time plan your trip ahead a bit better and save some money.


He was reminded of this point maybe once, maybe twice during the trip. :D

[Sean]

Next time plan your trip ahead a bit better and save some money.While I rarely agree with rforsythe, that is a good point.

I paid $260 for a Pilot Power rear tire installed on my R6 in Santa Fe, NM because I didn't plan ahead. It sucks, but I guarantee you'll pay attention next time! :up:

[Nick_Ninja]

While I rarely agree with rforsythe, that is a good point.

I paid $260 for a Pilot Power rear tire installed on my R6 in Santa Fe, NM because I didn't plan ahead. It sucks, but I guarantee you'll pay attention next time! :up:

No he won't. He's a cop. :roll:

[Sean]

No he won't. He's a cop. :roll:
:lol: Ninja, you crack me up. Can't we all just play nice? :p

[DAVIS2013]

Hi Everyone Lincoln Davis from Davis Service Center. I appreciate the comments and am always looking for ways to improve our store. I do want to take the time to respond to Aaron's post. We have been in business since 1975 and practice full disclosure on the products we sell. Our tire prices are marked on the tires so travelers and locals know the price they are paying up front and they do pay the same price. We have a menu board behind our service counter that clearly states our labor prices to install tires. We also have all customers sign a check in sheet that we mark the cost of labor before they sign it. I did double check because we are all human but Aaron did sign this form that clearly stated $75 per tire for installation and balancing. Most of you know when it comes to tires us m/c dealers get discounts based on the amount of tires we buy. We are in a small rural community and do not have the same buying power as the dealers in the big city or the mail order companies. Our prices are below retail and above some mail order companies, but will do everything we can to get a deal. However I do encourage you all to give your local tire dealer, the one that contributes to 4-H, the motorcycle clubs, or the High School team your daughter or son may be on, a shot at the deal. If the price is too high at least you tried. Aaron rode into our shop on Saturday the 18th and the work order was opened at 1:00 p.m. Shortly thereafter our nationally recognized KTM tech started on his motorcycle. Also, keep a look out for the name Jeremiah Thibeau who will be competing in Las Vegas for the honors of top Yamaha Tech in the U.S. Sorry but super proud of the staff we have. At 3:30 Aaron was cashiered out and on his way. I didn't know Aaron was upset with the cost of the repair order until the 28th when he gave me a call. I called him back and offered him a gift certificate for $40.00 in an effort to keep him happy. We will always strive to be better and are currently trying to negotiate with our tire suppliers in an effort to help with this crazy inflation. Also we will be evaluating our labor prices. I appreciate all the support and look forward to meeting some of you in the future. Be safe. Lincoln Davis

[Wrider]

I'll chime in here too. I used to work up at Sun Sports in Gunni and we sent people to Davis if we couldn't do it, didn't have time, or didn't have what they needed. There's another shop in Gunni and two or three more in Montrose but we never sent anyone there. They've always been pretty nice and to be honest this is the first time I've heard a complaint about them.

[Cornfed]

Hi Everyone Lincoln Davis from Davis Service Center. I appreciate the comments and am always looking for ways to improve our store. I do want to take the time to respond to Aaron's post. We have been in business since 1975 and practice full disclosure on the products we sell. Our tire prices are marked on the tires so travelers and locals know the price they are paying up front and they do pay the same price. We have a menu board behind our service counter that clearly states our labor prices to install tires. We also have all customers sign a check in sheet that we mark the cost of labor before they sign it. I did double check because we are all human but Aaron did sign this form that clearly stated $75 per tire for installation and balancing. Most of you know when it comes to tires us m/c dealers get discounts based on the amount of tires we buy. We are in a small rural community and do not have the same buying power as the dealers in the big city or the mail order companies. Our prices are below retail and above some mail order companies, but will do everything we can to get a deal. However I do encourage you all to give your local tire dealer, the one that contributes to 4-H, the motorcycle clubs, or the High School team your daughter or son may be on, a shot at the deal. If the price is too high at least you tried. Aaron rode into our shop on Saturday the 18th and the work order was opened at 1:00 p.m. Shortly thereafter our nationally recognized KTM tech started on his motorcycle. Also, keep a look out for the name Jeremiah Thibeau who will be competing in Las Vegas for the honors of top Yamaha Tech in the U.S. Sorry but super proud of the staff we have. At 3:30 Aaron was cashiered out and on his way. I didn't know Aaron was upset with the cost of the repair order until the 28th when he gave me a call. I called him back and offered him a gift certificate for $40.00 in an effort to keep him happy. We will always strive to be better and are currently trying to negotiate with our tire suppliers in an effort to help with this crazy inflation. Also we will be evaluating our labor prices. I appreciate all the support and look forward to meeting some of you in the future. Be safe. Lincoln Davis

Welcome.

Thank you again for the "emergency surgery" on my fork seals. You didn't have to bump me ahead of everything else that was going on in your shop, but you did and it saved my trip. Big thank you to your service adviser, Craig if I remember right, and to Jeremiah. Good work done at a fair price.:up:

Mr Davis, I/we genuinely appreciate hearing your side of the story. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but as we all know there are two sides to every story. As far as Aarons tires go, I still think $650 is exorbitant.

Good luck in Vegas Jeremiah Thibeau!

[j0ker]

Mr Davis, I/we genuinely appreciate hearing your side of the story. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but as we all know there are two sides to every story. As far as Aarons tires go, I still think $650 is exorbitant.

Good luck in Vegas Jeremiah Thibeau!

I couldn't think of a better way of putting how I felt after reading this whole thread. The ZX14 is riding on the same tires for $360 installed.

[Clovis]

Mr. Davis, thank you for saving the trip for two of my friends. I lead this particular trip down to the Devil's Highway in Arizona. A trip we had been planning and looking forward to since January when motorcycle cabin fever is at it's strongest!

I think the price was excessive but most of us are comparing it with the approximately $400 the tires would cost in Colorado Springs / Denver.

Given the alternative, if it were me I would have ponied up the $650 too. It was better then the alternative. If not for the price this thread would have a very different tune. But pricing aside, you guys saved the day for my friends.

I agree everyone was very nice and helpful. I picked up two pairs of sunglasses I've been looking all over for (a pair of cheapo Maxx high def -- only $20 but I bought some last year on a trip through New Mexico... lost them over the winter and haven't been able to find them. Luckfully you carry them so my wife and I both got a new pair! :)

Sometimes lessons are expensive but this was cheaper then the alternative (missing the trip or risking a blow out). At 100 miles in we estimated the tire had maybe 1000 miles left it in. The trip ended up being 1700-1800 miles total.

Justin Harward

[longrider]

I usually stay out of these threads due to my work but I have to comment here. First I must state that I am posting my personal opinions as a rider and am in no way representing my employer. We have all been way too spoiled by high volume shops and discounting. Michelins published MSRP on the PR3 is $302 for the 190/50-17 rear and $217 for the 120/70-17 front. That plus an estimated 7% tax and $150 labor is $705, $648 is obviously a small discount off MSRP. I have been in this business for 30 years (Yes, I am a FOG :) ) and have been at both ends in regards to size of shop. I have seen the cost difference volume gives you, and Davis could sell at straight cost and not be able to match the Denver large shop prices. As to the labor, $75 is a reasonable price for the amount of time it takes, the lower prices you see here in town are discounted by over half due to competition. My final comment is we dont make big money on tires, if we sold everything with the margin we get on tires we would be out of business in 6 months. Large shops have the luxury of giving up most of the profit on a product segment to compete due to the volume of everything else, a small shop can't afford that.

[Aaron]

It wasn't that I didn't pay attention, I had had an eye on the rear tire but I thought it'd make the trip since it had 2300 miles on it, wore less than half, and this trip was 1600 miles. It wasn't until Buena Vista when several of the experienced guys on the ride all felt like the tire wouldn't make it as the last half of the tire wears faster.

Lincoln, I apologize for posting this, but this was done after our conversation. Had I been happy with what you offered, this would have read quite a bit differently. I was looking for you to send me a $100 check, and this would have been a positive review. At $550 you'd still be banking, as I'm used to being out the door for $400 with the 2-3 sets I go through every season. Like was said, I was in the desert and needed water, and I understand that, but your prices are quite a bit higher than what I was expecting ($500). TFOGGuys is also a local business that gives back to our community (Which I am all for supporting by the way), but their labor price quoted right here is drastically less than half. And I'm sure their tire price is quite a bit lower as well.

I appreciate you taking the time to call me back and respond here. You have good people, your tech was absolutely phenominal, and it did save my trip. Your prices are your prices, there isn't much I can do about that, or could do about it even at the time. I did not look at your prices beforehand, that's my fault obviously, I just figured they'd be in the ballpark of what I was expecting ($500, 100 premium over what I usually pay for the short notice, immediacy, and your shop's location). I did not sign that form until after the service was complete and I was paying. Anyways, this isn't the place for negotiations. If you want to do that to change this review, you've got my phone number. If not, thanks again for the professional work and saving my trip, and I'll live with it.

[j0ker]

Lessons learned Aaron. I would say forget about it and move on.

[bulldog]

You have to at least give respect that the owner came on the site explain. I find that as a owner that cares about their customers at least because I've found a lot of shops that don't care! A $40 is better than most places would have done.....

This all reminds me of the South Park Wal-Mart episode. Everyone complains the small mom and pop stores don't have the same prices as Wal-Mart, yet everyone continues to go to Wal-Mart putting the small shops under. I am sure these smaller shops would love to be able to compete in prices, but like others said they would go under fast. As a consumer it is harder to not go for the cheaper prices (myself included), but for a small business owner this has to be so hard.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104409/victims-of-wall-mart

[modette99]

Montrose is a seller's market, unfortunately. I price my tires to be competitive with both local and internet vendors. I'm interested in having repeat customers and referrals, so I keep the costs of service in line. In Montrose (and many other small towns) there is a large difference between "local" pricing and what they charge travelers that they think they will never see again.

Yep, and they also forget the power of social media today and forums.

I remember a number of years ago reading about a guy on a Busa needing a rear tire and the place charged him some crazy OEM MSRP book price no one ever pays charging $300 install because well the guy was just passing through. A shame a place does that in this day in age...

Word gets around...

[modette99]

I usually stay out of these threads due to my work but I have to comment here. First I must state that I am posting my personal opinions as a rider and am in no way representing my employer. We have all been way too spoiled by high volume shops and discounting. Michelins published MSRP on the PR3 is $302 for the 190/50-17 rear and $217 for the 120/70-17 front. That plus an estimated 7% tax and $150 labor is $705, $648 is obviously a small discount off MSRP. I have been in this business for 30 years (Yes, I am a FOG :) ) and have been at both ends in regards to size of shop. I have seen the cost difference volume gives you, and Davis could sell at straight cost and not be able to match the Denver large shop prices. As to the labor, $75 is a reasonable price for the amount of time it takes, the lower prices you see here in town are discounted by over half due to competition. My final comment is we dont make big money on tires, if we sold everything with the margin we get on tires we would be out of business in 6 months. Large shops have the luxury of giving up most of the profit on a product segment to compete due to the volume of everything else, a small shop can't afford that.


So what is the break down of a MSRP $302 rear and $217 front? MSRP is ($299.95 for the rear)

So what do you pay for a rear tire as a shop? And if it's higher then online places why not order from those online places yourself?

That rear is $175.88, free shipping (I have gotten better deals from online when I order 2+ tires and been told I'll save more if order even a larger quantity) so I know you as a shop can haggle and setup special accounts with these big guys to save you and your custoemrs $$$$$

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/michelin-pilot-power-3-rear-tire/190-879825.aspx

So plop on $50 to make money on the tire, that is still $225.88.

Another thing I noticed they claim the MSRP's are much lower then what you claim.
http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/michelin-pilot-power-3-front-tire/190-879820.aspx

So the front is $119.88 MSRP is stated as $186.95 ($30.05 difference then your MSRP).

I've had shops back East do the old, but MSRP is X amount...well then maybe you need to order from those online shops yourself and do a fair markup and save you and your customers money. They always have blank looks because I caught them in a lie. I think most people understand you need to mark up stuff in a small shop...but don't play games with us.

[FZRguy]

I think the shop went above and beyond to drop everything on a Saturday and get you back on the road asap. I would expect a $150 surcharge for that service. Comparing internet pricing to that kind of service is downright silly. Props to the shop owner for coming on here and sending you a $40 gift card.

[Aaron]

Back from the dead!


Since this service neither one of my wheels have been touched, and the tires are done. I'm going the smarter direction this time, and got the tires shipped to my door for $290.98. Drano and I went to pull the wheels off, as off the bike Rocky Mountain charges $20 a wheel to mount and balance, so I'll be at $340 when all is said and done. More than $300 cheaper than Montrose, I'll take it!

Anyway, the rear axle torque rating is 100nM, and Drano took the rear loose fairly easily. Onto the front. The torque rating is 50nM, half that of the rear axle. Drano is no small guy, and neither am I. We applied as much torque as we possibly could. Drano stopped because he feared he'd break the 5/8in solid steel bolt we were using to loosen the nut. It was lifting the bike from the stands and the nut wouldn't budge.

Maybe over the last 6,000 mi my front axle torqued itself to crazy amounts and the rear didn't, or maybe the tech tightened the ever living shit out of the nut, and dunked it in locktite. We'll never know, but I've got my beliefs, and that's that the tech just drove it right in with an air gun at 120psi. I guess I can see his side, having a wheel fall off is a huge liability. But he put the bike at more risk of that by driving it in with so much torque that it simply won't come off.

So I bought an axle socket ($16), and I'll hit it with my 1/2" drive breaker bar. If it still doesn't budge I've got a 4 foot long cheater bar that slides over the breaker bar. Quite frankly that will either loosen it, or break a lot of shit, as a 6tt long steel bar can probably exceed 1,000 ft-pounds with ease. I'll update when the axle socket comes in. I'll reinstall at 50nM, with locktite.

[Native]

pinch bolts need released?

[Aaron]

The procedure calls to loosen the right side pinch bolts. We loosened and removed them. The left side has to remain tight, it doesn't pinch the axle but it controls the wheel's distance to the TC/ABS sensor.

We checked the manual and followed the procedure.

[Native]

yep, that sounds right pretty much

[Aaron]

Ya we were following procedure.

We didn't have the right tools. Used a 5/8" bolt that has a 15/16 head (23.81 mm). Nut is 24mm, it was a good fit and this is how I removed the wheel axle off several bikes. Double nuts on the bolt, using a bigass pipe wrench on the inside nut. There was no way, but the amount of torque being applied was tremendous. Something was going to break, and 5/8" steel bolts don't break very easy, to say the least.

Got the proper tools coming, the nut will come loose, but I might just use my torque wrench to see how much torque it takes. But the torque wrench maxxes at 150ft-lbs (More than 4 times the called for torque), and I can almost guarantee we'll top that.

Also, should be noted. $290.98 was for the PR2, the PR3 that I got at Davis Service Center are $325.98 from the same place (Motorcycle Superstore). So, at best, assuming Davis can't get ANY discounts from the tire manufacturer to purchase them, and has to buy then at the same price you and I do, he still charged $279 in labor and fees.

[TFOGGuys]

Your tire prices are ok. I get $267.98 plus tax for the PR2s (120/70 &190/55) and $302.98 plus tax for the PR3s. We charge $13.99 each for off bike mount and spin balance, or $29.99 each on the bike, with tire purchase.

[Clovis]

Jim, I wish you were in the springs!

[FZRguy]

Air impact with impact socket will spin that nut right off, and don't ever use Loctite on an axel nut.

[#1Townie]

Ninjas. They're out there.

[Aaron]

Air impact with impact socket will spin that nut right off, and don't ever use Loctite on an axel nut.
Ya I plan on doing that. Now why no locktite? I pretty much use LT on every motorcycle bolt.

[FZRguy]

Ya wanna be able to get it off again without all this trouble? I'd put a lil grease on the threads before Loctite....very rarely use it. It won't come off if properly torqued.