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Nolan
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 05:21 PM
OK, so I'm still new at this. I'm pushing myself and the bike a little more every time I ride. Anyway, while braking into a turn from another turn it feels as if the new direction I'm going in gets very heavy (Or wants to pull in to the new direction) in the steering. I'm not trail breaking very much at all. This is just the transition between left to right or right to left.
I thought it may be the brakes but it is pretty constant when I'm going through "S" type turns.
So with some positive type feedback..... What am I doing wrong or right? Could I actually be fighting the bike?
Sorry it's the best way I can explain it.
Thanks

Bueller
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 07:06 PM
Don't brake. Enter the chicane at the speed you want to go through. Try to start concentrating on maintaining a speed entering corners that doesn't require much in the way of braking. Setting up for a corner properly will make your cornering much easier than trying to correct mid corner. Corner speed is where the fun's at.
There is a good trick to shifting back and forth, it is the "knee to knee" weight transfer. I'll show you when we ride again.

Oh and your geometry on the bike might be off if it is fighting you.

j0ker
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 07:21 PM
Don't brake.

What he said!

Matty
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 07:25 PM
Getting your suspension dialed in also helps out a lot!! But ya listen to Bueller.

Nolan
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 08:14 PM
Not knowing the roads makes it a tad difficult to know how fast to enter in the first turn to enter into the second. Going from a 50mph turn to what looks to me as a 30 mph in a distance that seems short to me I pull some brake. I'm not yanking on it a ton just scrubbing some speed off. I'm not super confident in my downshifting skills to drop a gear without trying to skid the rear.

I'm trying!!!!!

Anytime you're ready Bueller. I'm game.

Nolan
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 08:21 PM
If it's the geometry then well..... I'll have to talk to Irdave.
I've scrubbed off the tires to 1/4"or so to the edge without scaring the shit out of myself. It just seems like the bike wants to turn deeper into the corner.

j0ker
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 08:30 PM
Also, hitting the brakes in a corner raises your bike up.... which is bad! :)

Bueller
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 08:31 PM
Downshifting once is not going to skid your tires, especially with a little rev matching. You can't memorize all the roads so you need to judge from what you can see. Slow in, fast out.

Nolan
Sun Jun 23rd, 2013, 08:46 PM
I'm starting to think that I'm finding some of my bad habits that I've developed at slower speeds.
Damnit.

matt2778
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 12:42 AM
Also, hitting the brakes in a corner raises your bike up.... which is bad! :)

Actually hitting the brakes drops the front if you're using the front brake only. If you get on the gas it will raise the bike. Which is the reason you want to be braking into the corner to help the bike the bike turn and on the gas as soon as possible

tecknojoe
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 07:05 AM
"knee to knee" weight transfer.

Bueller showed me this one at the track one day. My wrists wanted to say "thank you". It also keeps me planted very firm on the bike while leaving my hands free to steer and flick off photographers

asp_125
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 09:19 AM
+1 to what's been said. but especially to "knee to knee" or weighting the pegs in the left to right transitions. If it's not a suspension issue you may be putting too much weight on your hands - resulting in you fighting the bars instead of riding the bike.

How fresh are your tires? I just replaced a set of tires because the old ones developed a wierd flat spot on the sides (previous owner) that made holding a line in the corner difficult. Made a world of difference now that I'm on fresh tires.

j0ker
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 09:37 AM
Actually hitting the brakes drops the front if you're using the front brake only. If you get on the gas it will raise the bike. Which is the reason you want to be braking into the corner to help the bike the bike turn and on the gas as soon as possible

Mashing the rear brakes is what I was thinking of, but you are right about the front brakes and speed in a corner.

texlurch
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 11:06 AM
Are you countersteering.?

Quickest, easiest way to change direction is with the bars.
Assuming you have good body position and aren't weighting the bars.

Without bar input, you can weight all the pegs and shift all the weight you want, it ain't gonna snap into a turn

Changing direction with the brake on also makes the front end feel heavier, as you are loading the tire more, plus slowing the gyroscope effect of the wheel.

tecknojoe
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 11:09 AM
Changing direction with the brake on also makes the front end feel heavier, as you are loading the tire more, plus slowing the gyroscope effect of the wheel.

OP,
Be extremely careful if you are turning the bike and using the brake at the same time. This is an advanced technique and a very good way to wreck

Nolan
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 02:31 PM
Yeah I did some experimenting today. I'm still not able to judge my speed and given corners that are somewhat blind. I believe that I'm stiffening up more in the right hand turns than left. But I seem to be entering left turns faster and then I'm trying to brake into the corner late which is bad, and causing what I'm feeling with the steering. I'm getting there. Moving my ass around a bit and it is definitely getting easier.

asp_125
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 02:59 PM
At a reduced speed (cruising), are you able to remove your left hand from the bars? ie wave? If you can't you are 1. using the bars to hang on, or 2. tensing up and not trusting the lean. If you are relaxed and have proper body position, you should have a light grip on both bars. Another trick is to be able to wiggle your fingers while cornering. Hard to do if you're tense.

Nolan
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 03:12 PM
At a cruising speed I am able to pick my nose..... With either hand. As I get faster I tense up in right hand turns where I'm not confident enough to wave. I know/feel I'm not tucking my head down enough and relaxing. I'm going to find a parking lot and drive around a light pole for an hour or two.

j0ker
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 03:25 PM
At a cruising speed I am able to pick my nose..... With either hand.
If you are wearing gloves your nostrils must be HUGE!

Nolan
Mon Jun 24th, 2013, 03:51 PM
Sometimes.... You have to dig for it.

rush4theyeho
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 12:09 PM
Can anyone go a little further in depth on the "knee to knee" technique? Thanks!

PS - longtime lurker, first post!

tecknojoe
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 12:22 PM
When entering a left hand turn, plant your right thigh/knee into the gas tank. As you tip in, your leg will grip the bike. When you're in the lean, your left leg can be free to drag, while your right leg is holding you on the bike.

If you're in an "S" turn, you can transfer quickly from leg to leg as you flick left/right. To do this, you bring the bike back up with countersteer, put your other leg firmly on the tank as the bike approaches upright, then lean over to the other side and allow the inside leg to now come off and drag on the ground

you don't HAVE to drag knee for this either, it will still work if you are not all the way leaned over

Using your legs like this will free the weight from your hands, keeping you loose on the controls and conserving energy

This is all drastically easier with tank grips

Bueller
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 12:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt9lB-LErQ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

rush4theyeho
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 02:34 PM
Thanks!

Generic
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 03:39 PM
Tank grips on my "order soon" list

Bueller
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 04:04 PM
FWIW I have tried Stomp grip on two different bikes and don't care for them. I don't get as far off the bike as some though.

Sully
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 04:12 PM
And remember to ride on the balls of your feet as well as pushing down on your foot peg with the inside foot.

Titus
Tue Jul 30th, 2013, 05:46 PM
Have you read A Twist of the Wrist II or seen the DVD?

make sure you're rolling the throttle on smoothly, evenly, an consistently throughout the remainder of the turn. If you're off the gas, it loads the front suspension, making steering "heavy."

MakersTeleMark
Wed Jul 31st, 2013, 01:20 PM
I use these and find that they really help lock in my knee and inner thigh. Almost a stock look to them too. Very impressed.

http://www.techspec-usa.com/

http://i.imgur.com/dW2arGl.jpg

However, I tend to weight my outside peg in a turn.

One-ops
Wed Jul 31st, 2013, 06:59 PM
FWIW I have tried Stomp grip on two different bikes and don't care for them. I don't get as far off the bike as some though.
I to did not like the stomp but love the snake skin have you tried that? I don't ride street much but I rode a bike not to long ago with out any pads and it was much harder to grip the tank I didn't like it, although still doable just a little differant feeling and had to think about it unsure type feeling. Also had jeans on to so thats a big feeling change as well from the suit.

The knee/thigh to tank is awsome Ricky taught we this some years ago. My legs still hurt pretty good the next day after a good day of riding.
Forsure have good rubber and the forks and shock gone through. My frt felt kinda like this after a couple years of owning my bike and being 100% stock besides tires and some stuff I really didn't need. First it was the tire it didn't look to bad but seemed to get harder as it wore was the 208 dunlops that came stock the front would feel so bad and just slide and vibrate kinda scary feeling it only took a couple times of that before I got freshies. I didn't think I needed anything done to the forks but you do and the sooner the better. Do it make it yours work with settings and it will pay off I can promise you this.Continue to work on your riding as well be in no hurry to step to far and it comes together. You'll find yourself braking harder banging downshifts and carry way more entry speed and not even be thinking about it.

Rockerbabe88
Mon Aug 5th, 2013, 06:07 PM
As well as using your legs and body weight to shoft your bike aim where you want to go with your shoulders just as mich (if not more so) and look way ahead. You probably already know that but it never hurts to look as far ahead as you possibly can and constantly remind yourself to do it (I tend to have a harder time doing this on the street than the track but its equally important). It really helps you stay loose and confident going into a turn because there's nothing ahead that you haven't already digested and accounted for in your control input if you follow what I mean.