Not Guilty

[Ezzzzy1]

Im sure anyone thats was following the Zimmerman case already heard.


Townie. If you ever figure out where we are you owe me $100 :lol:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/1002996_10151706626278486_484966740_n_zpsbfa52819. jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/1002996_10151706626278486_484966740_n_zpsbfa52819. jpg.html)

[mxer]

It's a dream come true for Jackson and Sharpton.

[3point5]

It's a dream come true for Jackson and Sharpton.

start circus now...

[bulldog]

Lame...but even if he won, the guy has spent over a year of his life fighting this and probably all his savings. Plus he will always be one of the most hated men in the US by many.....

If only the guy knew how to fight rather than have to resort to a gun to protect himself from a skinny teenager!

[birchyboy]

The prosecution didn't prove their case and the jury did the right thing. What's lame about the decision?

[bulldog]

The prosecution didn't prove their case and the jury did the right thing. What's lame about the decision? I think you can put it together...if not turn on the news and see why some people disagree :roll:

[texlurch]

Whats lame is how it ever went to trial in the first place.

[Ezzzzy1]

Whats lame is how it ever went to trial in the first place.

Correct.

Its funny how a country full of people (that were not there) can come up with what happened in their minds and then get mad when the verdict doesnt match the scenario they made up.

[Ezzzzy1]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/thumbs_acid_picdump_90-32_zps5da217bb.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/thumbs_acid_picdump_90-32_zps5da217bb.jpg.html)

[bulldog]

Correct.

Its funny how a country full of people (that were not there) can come up with what happened in their minds and then get mad when the verdict doesnt match the scenario they made up. Don't shoot me bro :lol: Since that is how you guys work :D

[birchyboy]

I think you can put it together...if not turn on the news and see why some people disagree :roll:

Unless you sit through all of the proceedings that occurred, either in the court or watched the channels that televised the entire hearing, you are basing your opinion on only snippets of data that are slanted one way or the other.

Have you ever sat on a jury during a criminal case? Until I had earlier this year, I found myself siding with one side or the other in cases like this based on my natural tendencies. After sitting on the jury and listening to hours of testimony from several witnesses, I have a much greater respect for our legal system and and find myself less prone to make a decision on guilt or innocence without knowing the entire story.

[bulldog]

Unless you sit through all of the proceedings that occurred, either in the court or watched the channels that televised the entire hearing, you are basing your opinion on only snippets of data that are slanted one way or the other.

Have you ever sat on a jury during a criminal case? Until I had earlier this year, I found myself siding with one side or the other in cases like this based on my natural tendencies. After sitting on the jury and listening to hours of testimony from several witnesses, I have a much greater respect for our legal system and and find myself less prone to make a decision on guilt or innocence without knowing the entire story. True...but do you understand people have different opinions! I am entitled to mine :)

You weren't on the jury either so your viewpoint is about as good as mine....outside looking in

I for one do not have as much faith in our judicial system...it's why we have prisons overrun by drug offenders while murders and rapists get let go early!

[Grim2.0]

If you rrreeeaalllyy want me to I can get ol Townie on here........

[Ezzzzy1]

He can have your spot :lol:

[bulldog]

And in case you guys thought I am alone in my opinion you can read these:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/07/14/hundreds-upset-with-zimmerman-verdict-march-through-center-city/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/15/rallies-marches-follow-zimmerman-verdict/2517251/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/15/us-usa-florida-shooting-protests-idUSBRE96E00D20130715

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/15/3500317/wade-joins-chorus-of-upset-nba.html

[FZ1Guy]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/thumbs_acid_picdump_90-32_zps5da217bb.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/thumbs_acid_picdump_90-32_zps5da217bb.jpg.html)

:pointlaugh:

[Grim2.0]

He can have your spot :lol:

Why so you two can pretend like you don't love each other?

[texlurch]

And in case you guys thought I am alone in my opinion you can read these:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/07/14/hundreds-upset-with-zimmerman-verdict-march-through-center-city/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/15/rallies-marches-follow-zimmerman-verdict/2517251/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/15/us-usa-florida-shooting-protests-idUSBRE96E00D20130715

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/15/3500317/wade-joins-chorus-of-upset-nba.html

Well, there certainly is a trend in those news stories as to who shares that "opinion"

And you know what they say about opnions, right?

[bulldog]

Well, there certainly is a trend in those news stories as to who shares that "opinion"

And you know what they say about opnions, right? Are you trying to say that black people's opinions do not count as much? I see it just as people's opinions....

But yes, I agree about opinions, but that is what I mean...people can have different ones...doesn't always mean they are correct though (both ways)

[dirkterrell]

True...but do you understand people have different opinions! I am entitled to mine :)

You weren't on the jury either so your viewpoint is about as good as mine....outside looking in


Well, there is a little difference: his opinion is supported by the jury's decision.

[bulldog]

Well, there is a little difference: his opinion is supported by the jury's decision. Tell that to the hundreds of people that are wrongly sent to prison and are exonerated :dunno:

Extrapolating from the 281 known DNA exonerations in the US since the late 1980s, aconservative estimate (http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/How_many_innocent_people_are_there_in_prison.php) is that 1 percent of the US prison population, approximately 20,000 people, are falsely convicted.
In fact, since the late 1980s there have been as many as 850 exonerations nationwide, according to University of Michigan law professor Samuel Gross, a leading researcher in the field. Many of them float under the radar, Gross says, unlike the highly publicized DNA exonerations.
The following map shows the 825 known exonerations in the United States since 1989, using data gathered by Mother Jones with assistance from the ‪Center on Wrongful Convictions (http://www.law.northwestern.edu/cwc/), The Innocence Project (http://www.innocenceproject.org/),‬ and Samuel Gross
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/12/innocent-people-us-prisons

[dirkterrell]

Tell that to the hundreds of people that are wrongly sent to prison and are exonerated :dunno:



So, what's your solution? If the jury system can't be trusted, what should we do that is better?

[bulldog]

So, what's your solution? If the jury system can't be trusted, what should we do that is better? No solution as we have to go by what the law states.....doesn't mean I can't feel it was the wrong decision. Just saying that juries are not always correct!


The ironic part of this is most of the people that are commenting on this thread on how "justice works" were the same people complaining when the new gun laws went into effect! Wasn't that a similar situation where we have to go with what the government decides. Yet we had a lot of people stating how it was unfair and how wrong it was (and actually supporting police officers that were not going to obey the new gun laws) :dunno:

IRONY!!!!!

[JKOL]

Whats lame is how it ever went to trial in the first place.

:imwithstupid:

Alan Dershowitz explains how the prosecutor withheld information to get the affidavit signed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CIYV5MuoVCQ

Angela Cory fired the IT guy that noticed she was withholding information about the case from the defense:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2013-07-13/story/state-attorney-angela-corey-fires-information-technology-director-who

Beyond the tragedy of two stupid people meeting, both making a series of bad decisions that ended with one of them dead, what I find really sad is the ignorant people rioting all in the name of Trayvon and social injustice. They really are just rioting because they are idiots and are looking for a chance to riot. Hell, people in Oakland will riot because it is a Tuesday and they don't have anything better to do.

And this is just plain funny. A stupid ass teen showing how hard he is took his anger to Twitter and ended up in jail. What a dumbass. Everyone knows, only the hardest OGs post threats on Twitter.
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/story/22830200/zion-teen-posts-school-threat-on-twitter

[birchyboy]

No solution as we have to go by what the law states.....doesn't mean I can't feel it was the wrong decision. Just saying that juries are not always correct!


The ironic part of this is most of the people that are commenting on this thread on how "justice works" were the same people complaining when the new gun laws went into effect! Wasn't that a similar situation where we have to go with what the government decides. Yet we had a lot of people stating how it was unfair and how wrong it was (and actually supporting police officers that were not going to obey the new gun laws) :dunno:

IRONY!!!!!

How can you even compare a new gun law that limits magazine capacity to a trial by jury where someone died. That is worse than apples to oranges. That is like apples to elephant.

And yes, sometimes innocent people are convicted. 1% is a small price to pay for a system that works the majority of the time. Would it suck to be in the 1% group? Yes. But what is the percentage of people that were guilty but set free because of a poor prosecution, or a tainted jury, or a multitude of other factors? All in all, I think the system works, albeit slowly.

[texlurch]

No solution as we have to go by what the law states.....doesn't mean I can't feel it was the wrong decision. Just saying that juries are not always correct!


The ironic part of this is most of the people that are commenting on this thread on how "justice works" were the same people complaining when the new gun laws went into effect! Wasn't that a similar situation where we have to go with what the government decides. Yet we had a lot of people stating how it was unfair and how wrong it was (and actually supporting police officers that were not going to obey the new gun laws) :dunno:

IRONY!!!!!

If you want to go spiralling off into other topics.. the reason a lot of us have issues with the CO gun laws are they are not only un-constitutional, but they were pushed thru by a biased group who didn't pay any attention to majority opinion.
Not to mention they are childish laws that will do nothing to prvent crimes like Aurora, which is specifically what was touted by their proponents.

Back on topic, shall we discuss poor little Trayvons criminal record? Or the fact that prior to the NAACP, JJ and others hollering that the Sherriff and Prosecutor had no charges to press?

All this calling about his "civil rights"; there were what, 20 shootings in Chicago the past weekend.. where is all the news coverage and NAACP involvement in those?

Can you honestly tell me that all this would be happening if:

both TM and GZ were black, or both white, or if the shooting went the other way, with TM kiling GZ??

You wouldn't have heard a single peep about it, from anyone.

That is the real travesty.

[Ezzzzy1]

Funny thing is, people dont care about the laws. They care about what they feel about the situation. Thats why they are protesting. A law doesnt even have to be broken for people to say that they dont agree with what happened.

That and people cant just be wrong anymore. Once they commit themselves to something (ie "treyvon is an innocent victim") there is no going back. They will defend their stance no matter the outcome.

The whole situation sucks but anyone with an open and unbiased mind can see that the number one reason this whole thing is a mess is because of the media. They spun the story and threw the racial card first. Then everyone gets their facts from them and deducts what makes them feel good about their stance. In the end its really just ignorant humans and piss poor reporting that gets us to where we are at.

Bottom line. I could give to shits about any punk ass getting shot. I would look after my neighborhood if crime spiked. I would follow ANYONE that looked suspicious and if they were beating my ass and I had a gun I would shoot them too - obviously all hypothetical but its not hard to follow the chain of events that lead to what happened. Its not like they are completely backwards and no one understands it.

Say whatever you want to say about what you think happened. Just know, you dont know what really happened. But, if you insist on being just another one of the knuckleheads in this country then you are totally "free" to think whatever you want.

[bulldog]

Funny thing is, people dont care about the laws. They care about what they feel about the situation. Thats why they are protesting. A law doesnt even have to be broken for people to say that they dont agree with what happened.

That and people cant just be wrong anymore. Once they commit themselves to something (ie "treyvon is an innocent victim") there is no going back. They will defend their stance no matter the outcome.

The whole situation is sucks but anyone with an open and unbiased mind can see that the number one reason this whole thing is a mess is because of the media. They spun the story and threw the racial card first. Then everyone gets their facts from them and deducts what makes them feel good about their stance. In the end its really just ignorant humans and piss poor reporting that gets us to where we are at.

Bottom line. I could give to shits about any punk ass getting shot. I would look after my neighborhood if crime spiked. I would follow ANYONE that looked suspicious and if they were beating my ass and I had a gun I would shoot them too - obviously all hypothetical but its not hard to follow the chain of events that lead to what happened. Its not like they are completely backwards and no one understands it.

Say whatever you want to say about what you think happened. Just know, you dont know what really happened. But, if you insist on being just another one of the knuckleheads in this country then you are totally "free" to think whatever you want. I can take a few punches, so at least now I know how to off someone legally; start sh*t with them and let them beat me up a bit so I can feel "threatened for my life" and then shoot them...nice! :lol:

Can't beat them...then join them! :D




P.S. I do not agree with the rioting either...stupid and only makes the situation worse! I agree, we were not in the court room, so we do not know the full picture and these people should just understand that also

[Grim2.0]

If you were not there then you do not know what really happened, and your opinion is based on what you think you know not what really happened.


I completely agree 100%






:lol:

[Ezzzzy1]

Alan Dershowitz explains how the prosecutor withheld information to get the affidavit signed:


Ive seen this before and this is a perfect example of how someone that is intelligent thinks and speaks.

[Ezzzzy1]

I completely agree 100%

Its not about what I think happened. Its about putting all of the evidence and facts through a process to figure out what happened. A smart person can deduct most things from a situation and do that. A stupid person can not. The people rioting are stupid because they refuse to see that it is in fact their own misguided beliefs that are fueling their own conflict with the situation.

[bulldog]

Ive seen this before and this is a perfect example of how someone that is intelligent thinks and speaks.


Hmmm...well he states if you are handcuffed, taken against will into a police car, and taken to the jail you are considered arrested. Well I was handcuffed once, put in a police car, taken to jail...and yet never arrested. Gave me a ticket and sent me on my way. How inaccurate by a so called "intelligent person". :lol:



Its not about what I think happened. Its about putting all of the evidence and facts through a process to figure out what happened. A smart person can deduct most things from a situation and do that. A stupid person can not. The people rioting are stupid because they refuse to see that it is in fact their own misguided beliefs that are fueling their own conflict with the situation.
But yes I do agree that these people rioting do not know the full facts, but either do we. Even in a court jurors do not know ALL the facts as some things will not be presented. Calling them stupid is a bit far...maybe ignorant is a better word as I bet some people rioting actually have a high IQ, but in this case are misinformed (blame the lame media). As I said before though I don't agree with them rioting though. I do however know what it is like to be prejudiced against and anyone that thinks racism does not exist anymore is wrong (not particular to this case, just in general)

[dirkterrell]

No solution as we have to go by what the law states.....doesn't mean I can't feel it was the wrong decision. Just saying that juries are not always correct!


The ironic part of this is most of the people that are commenting on this thread on how "justice works" were the same people complaining when the new gun laws went into effect! Wasn't that a similar situation where we have to go with what the government decides. Yet we had a lot of people stating how it was unfair and how wrong it was (and actually supporting police officers that were not going to obey the new gun laws) :dunno:

IRONY!!!!!

Ironic only if illogic is your game. One is a jury decision. The other is a law that was passed. The former has, until recently, been respected as a final decision unless you have evidence relevant to the case (not something you "feel"). Debate on the former is a cornerstone of our form of government.

[Grim2.0]

Its not about what I think happened. Its about putting all of the evidence and facts through a process to figure out what happened. A smart person can deduct most things from a situation and do that. A stupid person can not. The people rioting are stupid because they refuse to see that it is in fact their own misguided beliefs that are fueling their own conflict with the situation.

Basically the people rioting are doing so based on the media's fucked up angles and sides of the story and not because they have cold hard facts that he is guilty and proving so? No people never do that! (sarcasm)

Precisely why i don't watch the news, hearing the shit spew out of their mouths taking one side of the story and twisting it to any angle they can to keep people glued to the TV.

I meant I agree with your statement that without being there and seeing everything even an assumption is not something that can be properly made without ridicule from everyone else. The people rioting are indeed stupid, "one of our kind was killed disregard the facts and what may or may not have happened" welcome to America land of the sheep!

[bulldog]

Ironic only if illogic is your game. One is a jury decision. The other is a law that was passed. The former has, until recently, been respected as a final decision unless you have evidence relevant to the case (not something you "feel"). Debate on the former is a cornerstone of our form of government. Did you miss the police officer thread on where he would not enforce that law? It is NOT being respected and many on here supported the officer!
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?49752-hell-yeah-one-thing-i-do-like-about-cops&highlight=John+Cooke


I on the other hand respect the juries decision...just don't have to like it (but as I said I was not in that court room)

[Ezzzzy1]

Hmmm...well he states if you are handcuffed, taken against will into a police car, and taken to the jail you are considered arrested. Well I was handcuffed once, put in a police car, taken to jail...and yet never arrested. Gave me a ticket and sent me on my way. How inaccurate by a so called "intelligent person". :lol:


Here is a great example of the power or "belief".

You are allowed to believe whatever you want but the definition of "arrested" is:

A seizure or forcible restraint; an exercise of the power to deprive a person of his or her liberty; the taking or keeping of a person in custody by legal authority, especially, in response to a criminal charge.

Now I already know what you are going to say but you my friend were ARRESTED. Not only would you be arguing with me if you disagreed but you would be arguing with a... um... Harvard professor :roll:

Its honestly funny to me how many peoples beliefs really differ from actual facts and how committed they are to believing whatever the hell they want.

Just out of curiosity Nate. Whats your definition of "arrested"?

[bulldog]

Here is a great example of the power or "belief".

You are allowed to believe whatever you want but the definition of "arrested" is:

A seizure or forcible restraint; an exercise of the power to deprive a person of his or her liberty; the taking or keeping of a person in custody by legal authority, especially, in response to a criminal charge.

Now I already know what you are going to say but you my friend were ARRESTED. Not only would you be arguing with me if you disagreed but you would be arguing with a... um... Harvard professor :roll:

Its honestly funny to me how many peoples beliefs really differ from actual facts and how committed they are to believing whatever the hell they want.

Just out of curiosity Nate. Whats your definition of "arrested"? Having a arrest record on my file....I have none. Just saying I was handcuffed and taken to station and according to that video I was arrested, but my record says different. Only thing I care is what is put down on paper and can effect me in the future.

[Ezzzzy1]

I on the other hand respect the juries decision...just don't have to like it (but as I said I was not in that court room)

So if you dont like their decision what would you have liked to see?

I think you are just saying that you want to see something happen to Zimmerman because you feel he did something wrong. Is that what would really make people happy?

Its crazy to think that someone is cleared of wrong doing and people still want to see something happen to them. Thats like the ultimate definition of drama queen.

[Ezzzzy1]

Having a arrest record on my file....I have none. Just saying I was handcuffed and taken to station and according to that video I was arrested, but my record says different. Only thing I care is what is put down on paper and can effect me in the future.

Oh boy... So you are saying that because its not on your arrest record it didnt happen and even if it did happen whatever happened wasnt call "arrest"? :lol:

Dude. Anytime a cop puts handcuffs on you, you are under arrest. I hope I dont have to explain this any other way.

[bulldog]

So if you dont like their decision what would you have like to see?

I think you are just saying that you want to see something happen to Zimmerman because you feel he did something wrong. Is that what would really make people happy?

Its crazy to think that someone is cleared of wrong doing and people still want to see something happen to them. Thats like the ultimate definition of drama queen. I've already said I respect the jurors decision. I was just commenting on how I don't like it...but I have also admitted I was not in that court room so I don't know the full picture. I just don't always have faith in our judicial system as some on here do so I question it.

And not a new thing:
OJ Simpson
Casey Anthony

[dirkterrell]

I can take a few punches, so at least now I know how to off someone legally; start sh*t with them and let them beat me up a bit so I can feel "threatened for my life" and then shoot them...nice! :lol:


Nothing that was said gave Martin the right to knock Zimmerman to the ground and then get on top of him and pummel him. It is not illegal to ask a suspicious looking person what they are doing in your neighborhood, and with there having been several break-ins in his neighborhood that police couldn't respond to in time, what Zimmerman was doing is understandable and legal. And note in the 911 call the he described Martin's behavior and not his race until the dispatcher asked if he was white, black, or Hispanic. Martin, on the other hand, called Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker", and being from the South, I know that term for the racial slur that it is. He could have gone on home after Zimmerman lost sight of him, but he didn't. He could have turned to Zimmerman and explained why he was there, even waited for the cops to arrive. But he didn't. He chose to confront Zimmerman and assault him. He had no legal reason to do so, and Zimmerman had every right to defend himself. That is what the jury decided.

[Ezzzzy1]

"An arrest may occur (1) by the touching or putting hands on the arrestee; (2) by any act that indicates an intention to take the arrestee into custody and that subjects the arrestee to the actual control and will of the person making the arrest; or (3) by the consent of the person to be arrested. There is no arrest where there is no restraint, and the restraint must be under real or pretended legal authority. However, the detention of a person need not be accompanied by formal words of arrest or a station house booking to constitute an arrest."

[bulldog]

Oh boy... So you are saying that because its not on your arrest record it didnt happen and even if it did happen whatever happened wasnt call "arrest"? :lol:

Dude. Anytime a cop puts handcuffs on you, you are under arrest. I hope I dont have to explain this any other way. Ok, if you say so. I've also been put into handcuffs by a officer numerous times and let go on the scene when it was all cleared up and I was proved innocent. Guess I've been arrested a lot of times then if putting handcuffs on me is all it takes :dunno:
I am not a cop, so I thought getting charged and put in a cell was being arrested...I am just glad when they look it up it says I have never been arrested...so what counts!

[Ezzzzy1]

OJ Simpson
Casey Anthony

Acquittals are different than "not guilty". There is a HUGE difference.

[Ezzzzy1]

"An arrest may occur (1) by the touching or putting hands on the arrestee; (2) by any act that indicates an intention to take the arrestee into custody and that subjects the arrestee to the actual control and will of the person making the arrest; or (3) by the consent of the person to be arrested. There is no arrest where there is no restraint, and the restraint must be under real or pretended legal authority. However, the detention of a person need not be accompanied by formal words of arrest or a station house booking to constitute an arrest."

Actually, now that I read this. It would appear that if there was no restraint you may not have been arrested.

Restraint could mean as little as saying "dont arrest me" or even "really?".

[JKOL]

Acquittals are different than "not guilty". There is a HUGE difference.

Two cases where I didn't like the verdict, but you didn't see me rioting or posting threats on Twitter.

[bulldog]

Acquittals are different than "not guilty". There is a HUGE difference. I thought OJ was found not guilty?

Says to here:Verdict[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=O._J._Simpson_murder_case&action=edit&section=9)]At 10 a.m. on October 3, 1995, the jury returned a verdict of not guilty


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case

[Ghosty]

Unless you sit through all of the proceedings that occurred, either in the court or watched the channels that televised the entire hearing, you are basing your opinion on only snippets of data that are slanted one way or the other.

Have you ever sat on a jury during a criminal case? Until I had earlier this year, I found myself siding with one side or the other in cases like this based on my natural tendencies. After sitting on the jury and listening to hours of testimony from several witnesses, I have a much greater respect for our legal system and and find myself less prone to make a decision on guilt or innocence without knowing the entire story.
Good post, agreed. I've also served. And to add to the person who said it was a "lame" outcome, I actually agree. The prosecution should've fought for a lesser charge instead of the whole ball of wax or nothing. But ALSO, I totally agree with our Constitutional and Founding Father's idea that:

"It is far better for a guilty man to go free than any innocent man go to jail."

That is why it takes a SOLID amount of good PROOF to send someone to jail, not just emotions. Fuck Jackson, SpikeLee, & Sharpton clowns, they need to gtfo. Although there is a good chance that Zimmerman is a total douchebag trigger-happy idiot who went vigilante, refused to follow the dispatcher's order to STAY PUT IN HIS CAR, wait for police to arrive, IS indeed fucking guilty of idiocy and probably a serious crime in any other state besides redneck Texas or Florida. But besides that, the jury heard all the evidence (or lack thereof), and chose accordingly.

I'm NO fan of Zimmerman, but I believe this to probably be the correct outcome, especially without victim testimony.

[Ezzzzy1]

I thought OJ was found not guilty?

Says to here:Verdict[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=O._J._Simpson_murder_case&action=edit&section=9)]

At 10 a.m. on October 3, 1995, the jury returned a verdict of not guilty


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case

An Acquittal means the case was dropped because there was not enough evidence to convict. That is different than having enough evidence and using it to PROVE the persone was "not guilty".

[bulldog]

An Acquittal means the case was dropped because there was not enough evidence to convict. That is different than having enough evidence and using it to PROVE the persone was "not guilty". Why you got to be so technical today EJ :lol: Just telling you what it says...which was not guilty as OJ's verdict.

Plus don't make me mad, as you pointed out I have a long arrest record :D My girl does too as we have those fuzzy handcuffs we use some nights :lol:

[birchyboy]

Why the hell does the US Government have to step in now with this case? He was tried and found not guilty. Move the fuck on Holder and worry about more important stuff.

[Ezzzzy1]

Why you got to be so technical today EJ :lol: Just telling you what it says...which was not guilty as OJ's verdict.

Plus don't make me mad, as you pointed out I have a long arrest record :D My girl does too as we have those fuzzy handcuffs we use some nights :lol:

And im just telling you that OJ being acquitted is different then them finding Zemmerman not guilty.... And I never brought up your arrest record (technically) :lol:

[Ezzzzy1]

Why the hell does the US Government have to step in now with this case? He was tried and found not guilty. Move the fuck on Holder and worry about more important stuff.

We gots mad money YO!

Its not like this country has anything else better to do then fuel the ignant drama party!

[bulldog]

And im just telling you that OJ being acquitted is different then them finding Zemmerman not guilty.... And I never brought up your arrest record (technically) :lol: So why does that link show "not guilty" for OJ? Checked other places and said not guilty as well.

Another one that says "not guilty". When, at 10 A.M. PST on October 3, Judge Ito's clerk read the jury's verdict of "Not Guilty," http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/simpson/simpson.htm

I am no expert on this stuff, so what am I missing?


P.S. I have NO arrest record....unless under your odd thinking!

[Ghosty]

Why the hell does the US Government have to step in now with this case? He was tried and found not guilty. Move the fuck on Holder and worry about more important stuff.
What are those useless fucks doing? I haven't read the news today yet.

<Edit>

Nevermind, doesn't sound like Holder is pursuing much of anything, which is good:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/politics/zimmerman-federal-charges/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


To successfully prosecute Zimmerman, the Department of Justice would have to show that Zimmerman "caused the death of Trayvon Martin solely motivated by/because of his race or color," Weinstein told CNN in an e-mail, adding: "This element was absent from the state trial and quite frankly doesn't exist."

[Ezzzzy1]

So why does that link show "not guilty" for OJ? Checked other places and said not guilty as well.

Another one that says "not guilty". When, at 10 A.M. PST on October 3, Judge Ito's clerk read the jury's verdict of "Not Guilty," http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/simpson/simpson.htm

I am no expert on this stuff, so what am I missing?


I dont think its that odd... I just think you dont understand any of it.

1. All arrests do NOT always show up on records. It completely depends on the outcome of the situation. If the charges are dropped or you are found not guilty then there will not be a record of it.

2. Based on what I now understand someone is not by definition "arrested" if they agree (or give consent) to the process.

So in Zimmermans case he was arrested because he was taken "against his will". If he agreed to go down its not an arrest but because they had to essentially force him it was.

[bulldog]

I dont think its that odd... I just think you dont understand any of it.

1. All arrests do NOT always show up on records. It completely depends on the outcome of the situation. If the charges are dropped or you are found not guilty then there will not be a record of it.

2. Based on what I now understand someone is not by definition "arrested" if they agree (or give consent) to the process.

So in Zimmermans case he was arrested because he was taken "against his will". If he agreed to go down its not an arrest but because they had to essentially force him it was. I didn't agree to be taken to the police station....and yet again I have no arrest record! I just went through a extensive background check here at work the last month and one question was if I was ever arrested. I said no and I passed the backround check. Being arrested is getting read your rights, finger printed, and told what you are charged with.

I think you are the one that doesn't understand it!


So show me a record where Zimmerman was arrested that night then? it shows he was arrested 6 weeks later when the prosecutors decided to press charges!

Here is my proof, so show me yours! http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/04/11/150449405/zimmerman-arrested-on-murder-charge-in-martin-case

The arrest and charges come more than six weeks after Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, shot Trayvon, an African-American who was 17 when he died. Zimmerman, 28, was not jailed or charged after the Feb. 26 shooting

[Darth Do'Urden]

Nothing that was said gave Martin the right to knock Zimmerman to the ground and then get on top of him and pummel him. It is not illegal to ask a suspicious looking person what they are doing in your neighborhood, and with there having been several break-ins in his neighborhood that police couldn't respond to in time, what Zimmerman was doing is understandable and legal. And note in the 911 call the he described Martin's behavior and not his race until the dispatcher asked if he was white, black, or Hispanic. Martin, on the other hand, called Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker", and being from the South, I know that term for the racial slur that it is. He could have gone on home after Zimmerman lost sight of him, but he didn't. He could have turned to Zimmerman and explained why he was there, even waited for the cops to arrive. But he didn't. He chose to confront Zimmerman and assault him. He had no legal reason to do so, and Zimmerman had every right to defend himself. That is what the jury decided.

This is precisely why I'm on the side of agreement with the jury's decision. Also why this whole incident doesn't surprise me that it turned out the way it did. Zimmerman lost confidence in the cops' ability to do their job in a timely enough manner to prevent further crimes in his neighborhood, so he followed the "kid", who very likely DID look suspicious based on his attire and demeanor in that area at that time of night.

Every watch the movie "Crash"? Excellent film on these very issues. Color comes into play for a reason based on personal experiences. You're damn straight I'm scared of a bunch of black guys or Mexicans in the wrong part of town--BECAUSE I'M NOT AN IDIOT. But I'm also scared of some white trash-lookin' thugs in the "RIGHT" part of town, so it's not strictly about color. It's about situational awareness and learning how to protect yourself and your family should your suspicions turn out to be completely justified.

It could have easily gone the other way with Trayvon Martin where Zimmerman stays in his car, loses sight of Martin, the cops don't show up for 10 minutes (or longer), and Martin is busy breaking into some lady's house while she and her kids are asleep, only to be murdered in their beds. I know if I'm Zimmerman, this alternate reality would weigh heavier on my heart than the actual outcome, especially if everything happened the way he said it did.

If it didn't and Zimmerman is somehow a complete lying murderer, then only God can know and judge him at this point...and that's not a Judge I'd want to face with that blood on my hands.

[Ezzzzy1]

I didn't agree to be taken to the police station....and yet again I have no arrest record!

So what, did they hog tie you and throw you in the back of the car?

[bulldog]

So what, did they hog tie you and throw you in the back of the car? Officer handcuffed me if that is what you mean, but they didn't ask me if I wanted to go they just took me without a choice. I wasn't resisting but I didn't want to go.

Still waiting on that evidence that Zimmerman was arrested that night! You got my evidence it happened 6 weeks after! Show me that and prove you and your Harvard genius are correct!

[Ezzzzy1]

Here is the answer to it all.

What is the difference between being taken into custody and being arrested?

Apparently Nate, when you had your little run in and got a ticket for the crime you did you did not get arrested. You were simply taken into custody. There, that is solved and now the conversation about you can go away. :lol:

[bulldog]

Here is the answer to it all.

What is the difference between being taken into custody and being arrested?

Apparently Nate, when you had your little run in and got a ticket for the crime you did you did not get arrested. You were simply taken into custody. There, that is solved and now the conversation about you can go away. :lol: So you and your Harvard guy were incorrect....don't believe scholars just because they have a title! :D You can go back to that video and hear the Harvard guy say "Zimmerman was arrested that night". It was 6 weeks later though...

[Ezzzzy1]

Officer handcuffed me if that is what you mean.

Still waiting on that evidence that Zimmerman was arrested that night! You got my evidence it happened 6 weeks after!


I dont have proof. Thats the whole argument Nate. Im saying what the attorney said and thats if Zimmerman was taken against his will the night of the shooting then he was in fact by law arrested.

[Ezzzzy1]

So you and your Harvard guy were incorrect....don't believe scholars just because they have a title! :D You can go back to that video and hear the Harvard guy say "Zimmerman was arrested that night". It was 6 weeks later though...

I sure would like to watch you and Dershowitz (the professor) have a debate about this one. It would probably take him about 3 minutes to tie you up in a knot with your words.

[bulldog]

I dont have proof. Thats the whole argument Nate. Im saying what the attorney said and thats if Zimmerman was taken against his will the night of the shooting then he was in fact by law arrested. I should sue your for Defamation of character....trying to act like I've been arrested before when I have not :lol:

Just kidding bro :)



I sure would like to watch you and Dershowitz (the professor) have a debate about this one. It would probably take him about 3 minutes to tie you up in a knot with your words. Yet he is wrong and YOU even proved it!

And would take me 30 seconds to break his arms, so big deal :lol:

[Ezzzzy1]

I proved it? :lol:

How

[bulldog]

I proved it? :lol:

HowI thought you just proved "custody" and "arrested" were different things?????????

But ok, you want to keep going then show me that proof Zimmerman was arrested that night! No point in arguing this any further till you can show that and give some proof!

[Ezzzzy1]

I should sue your for Defamation of character....trying to act like I've been arrested before when I have not :lol:



For the record I now know that you were only detained and given a ticket.

[bulldog]

For the record I now know that you were only detained and given a ticket. Same as with Zimmerman! Unless official documents are wrong, but I already put links for that, that show he was not arrested that night. Maybe taken in custody yes!

[Ezzzzy1]

I thought you just proved "custody" and "arrested" were different things?????????

But ok, you want to keep going then show me that proof Zimmerman was arrested that night! No point in arguing this any further till you can show that and give some proof!


I did.

I hate typing this shit again.

ANYTHING thats against your will does not fall under the definition of being detained.

What the professor is saying is that he was IN FACT "arrested" because he was taken against his will.

In other words his Civil Rights were violated. He was arrested but the police did not follow proper procedure.

[Ezzzzy1]

Same as with Zimmerman! Unless official documents are wrong, but I already put links for that.

No, Zimmerman was questioned and released

[CaptGoodvibes]

And would take me 30 seconds to break his arms, so big deal :lol:

Just one question:

If someone I do not know assaults me on the street, will they have a sign on their chest indicating this ability or should I assume everyone could do this? I ask because your statement supports the use of a force multiplier if attacked.

[bulldog]

Just one question:

If someone I do not know assaults me on the street, will they have a sign on their chest indicating this ability or should I assume everyone could do this? I ask because your statement supports the use of a force multiplier if attacked. I am not against Zimmerman protecting himself (I was not there to say if he was attacked or he attacked). I just question when it it ok to use a gun against a unarmed man. And what constitutes "fear of his life". If that is all it takes then I could have shot numerous people and got away with it; been jumped by gang members before...yet here I am alive!

[CaneZach]

I am not against Zimmerman protecting himself (I was not there to say if he was attacked or he attacked). I just question when it it ok to use a gun against a unarmed man. And what constitutes "fear of his life". If that is all it takes then I could have shot numerous people and got away with it; been jumped by gang members before...yet here I am alive!

This is best left ambiguous because each incident should be weighed on its own merits. There are too many factors to be considered, like sex of the attacker, sex of the victim, stature of each, abilities of each, element of surprise, etc. Where do you draw the line of what is "reasonable"?

[bulldog]

This is best left ambiguous because each incident should be weighed on its own merits. There are too many factors to be considered, like sex of the attacker, sex of the victim, stature of each, abilities of each, element of surprise, etc. Where do you draw the line of what is "reasonable"? That is the million dollar question! I just fear that cases like this will make some people feel it is ok to shoot a unarmed person, but I agree there are times it is justifiable.

I'd rather Zimmerman have left this up to a police officer rather than play one himself....it's their job so he could have let them handle it; wasn't like this guy was in middle of crime that needed to be stopped then! Again I was not there and nobody was but them two, so it is hard to say what actually happened

[Ezzzzy1]

I'd rather Zimmerman have left this up to a police officer rather than play one himself....it's their job so he could have let them handle it; wasn't like this guy was in middle of crime that needed to be stopped then! Again I was not there and nobody was but them two, so it is hard to say what actually happened

I think that its been made pretty clear that the reason the neighborhood established the watch program was because they had little or no confidence in the police.

[CaptGoodvibes]

I am not against Zimmerman protecting himself (I was not there to say if he was attacked or he attacked). I just question when it it ok to use a gun against a unarmed man. And what constitutes "fear of his life". If that is all it takes then I could have shot numerous people and got away with it; been jumped by gang members before...yet here I am alive!
If someone I do not know--a stranger--assaults me physically, I have to assume they are crazed and mean to kill me.

The operative word in my above statement is "stranger"

[Ghosty]

Anderson Cooper is on CNN interviewing one of the six jurors right now (AC-360). Pretty good insight on why they chose not guilty. Regardless of which side you're on. Cooper also asked some very pertinent questions to the pair of defense attornies, both of which had good points.

[bulldog]

I think that its been made pretty clear that the reason the neighborhood established the watch program was because they had little or no confidence in the police. I understand that, but if people want to take the law into their own hands then they can expect to possibly have things go bad like it did; spend time in jail and your savings to clear your name. My uncle is head of his neighborhood watch for over 25 years and the first thing the cops and he tells people is to not get involved and to call the police (unless it is a emergency, but a black kid walking on a street was not one)!

Next time I see a fire should I call the fire department or decide I have little faith in them and grab a hose and hope I put out the fire before possibly trapped people are inside. We have fire departments, police dept, doctors, etc for a reason; they are trained to handle these situations!


If someone I do not know--a stranger--assaults me physically, I have to assume they are crazed and mean to kill me.

The operative word in my above statement is "stranger" I assume you mean you would protect yourself against a unarmed man with a gun as well. That is your decision and you can go through what Zimmerman did; would be cool to say "hey I know that guy on tv being tried for murder" :lol: Again there are times and places when protecting yourself is justifiable with a gun, but it may not always be the best solution so people need to think about that.


Anderson Cooper is on CNN interviewing one of the six jurors right now (AC-360).
Pretty good insight on why they chose not guilty. Regardless of which side you're on. Cooper also asked some very pertinent questions to the pair of defense attornies, both of which had good points. Dang I missed that; would have been interesting to hear it fropm someone that was in that court room. I assume there was just reasonable doubt. Any idea if that is what the juror said?

Whichever side people are on, we need to remember it is way harder to convict someone than to find a small reasonable doubt. Just because someone was found not guilty doesn't mean they didn't do something wrong, there just wasn't enough evidence against them to prove it. (just saying in general)

[Ezzzzy1]

Next time I see a fire should I call the fire department or decide I have little faith in them and grab a hose and hope I put out the fire before possibly trapped people are inside. We have fire departments, police dept, doctors, etc for a reason; they are trained to handle these situations!




Well... Some people would do both. I would call 911 and if I could I would grab a hose or even more so I would go into the belly of the beast. Some people have no problem running towards it and its just as fast of a reaction as the people that run away.

Zimmerman needs to take responsibility for his actions. He got himself into this mess and thats the only person he can blame. If he does that he will let go of this mess and move on. The reality is that our country and the pussies in it are really the reason things went down the way they did. Everything from the people demanding he be arrested to the special prosecutor lying to get the case moved forward. Its sad to see someone not break any laws but have it turned into a national shit show with people that actually could care less about the facts and more about their own personal beliefs.

[bulldog]

Well... Some people would do both. I would call 911 and if I could I would grab a hose or even more so I would go into the belly of the beast. Some people have no problem running towards it and its just as fast of a reaction as the people that run away.

Zimmerman needs to take responsibility for his actions. He got himself into this mess and thats the only person he can blame. If he does that he will let go of this mess and move on. The reality is that our country and the pussies in it are really the reason things went down the way they did. Everything from the people demanding he be arrested to the special prosecutor lying to get the case moved forward. Its sad to see someone not break any laws but have it turned into a national shit show with people that actually could care less about the facts and more about their own personal beliefs. He is already going to sue two major networks (and probably write a book), so overall he will probably get rich over this; mainly because the media messed up; think one put his address and SS# up on tv (by accident) and another doctored clips to make his call sound racist.

[dirkterrell]

Next time I see a fire should I call the fire department or decide I have little faith in them and grab a hose and hope I put out the fire before possibly trapped people are inside. We have fire departments, police dept, doctors, etc for a reason; they are trained to handle these situations!


Yet another false analogy. Zimmerman did call the police, based on Martin's behavior. Here are his initial words in the 911 call:


Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, it's Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

And in the recent past, as records show, there had been break-ins in the neighborhood, citizens had called the police, and nothing had been done because the criminals got away before the police got there. So, you either let break-ins continue (which could escalate into harm to law-abiding citizens) or you try to help the police find people who are exhibiting suspicious behavior. He clearly did not pursue him because of his race, and this circus sideshow started by Sharpton is a big reason why there is so much racial animosity in this country. Sharpton is one of the most glaring examples of a racist human being there is.

So, he called the police and (as opposed to the or​ in your analogy) followed Martin so that he could help them find him. He very clearly had no intention of physically apprehending him himself. Martin made the decision to escalate the situation into a physical confrontation. That was the finding of the jury who went through all of the evidence (despite underhanded efforts by the prosecution to withhold some of it).

[bulldog]

Yet another false analogy. Zimmerman did call the police, based on Martin's behavior. Here are his initial words in the 911 call:



And in the recent past, as records show, there had been break-ins in the neighborhood, citizens had called the police, and nothing had been done because the criminals got away before the police got there. So, you either let break-ins continue (which could escalate into harm to law-abiding citizens) or you try to help the police find people who are exhibiting suspicious behavior. He clearly did not pursue him because of his race, and this circus sideshow started by Sharpton is a big reason why there is so much racial animosity in this country. Sharpton is one of the most glaring examples of a racist human being there is.

So, he called the police and (as opposed to the or​ in your analogy) followed Martin so that he could help them find him. He very clearly had no intention of physically apprehending him himself. Martin made the decision to escalate the situation into a physical confrontation. That was the finding of the jury who went through all of the evidence (despite underhanded efforts by the prosecution to withhold some of it). I never said he did not call the police, but it is evident he acted without them;he could easily have stayed in his vehicle! And again there was no break in, in progress that needed immediate actions; he could have waited....

So are you saying we have the right to take the law into our own hands if we do not feel the cops are doing their job? You do get the police have bigger issues to deal with than a guy walking around looking suspicious right? My house was broken into as a kid and took the cops over a hour to get there so this is nothing new as cops have to prioritize. People in that neighborhood are that concerned then buy a security system! Deal with breakins or murders...hmmm


Again, go ahead and support this action and you too can be dragged through the court system for a year when you decide to follow it!

[Ezzzzy1]

I never said he did not call the police, but it is evident he acted without them;he could easily have stayed in his vehicle! And again there was no break in, in progress that needed immediate actions; he could have waited....

So are you saying we have the right to take the law into our own hands if we do not feel the cops are doing their job? You do get the police have bigger issues to deal with than a guy walking around looking suspicious right? My house was broken into as a kid and took the cops over a hour to get there so this is nothing new as cops have to prioritize. People in that neighborhood are that concerned then buy a security system! Deal with breakins or murders...hmmm


Again, go ahead and support this action and you too can be dragged through the court system for a year when you decide to follow it!

When you make a decision to be active in a neighborhood watch you are making a decision to do more then just sit in your car while suspicious people walk around while its raining outside.

Also, I found it funny during the cross examination of the gal that was on the phone with treyvon while he was walking, she said that he called Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker"... If there is anything that makes me mad about any of this its that all these people are screaming racism on Zimmerman when its obvious who treyvon was.

[bulldog]

When you make a decision to be active in a neighborhood watch you are making a decision to do more then just sit in your car while suspicious people walk around while its raining outside.

Also, I found it funny during the cross examination of the gal that was on the phone with treyvon while he was walking, she said that he called Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker"... If there is anything that makes me mad about any of this its that all these people are screaming racism on Zimmerman when its obvious who treyvon was. Well like I said my uncle is one for 25 years and he does not condone this! I highly doubt the police do either!!!!! Why you think it is called "watch"...you watch with your eyes!

You keep thinking Zimmerman was his pleasant guy that calmly walked up to Treyvon...I highly doubt he was that nice! Not making excuses for Treyvon, but common sense tells me a guy upset his neighborhood was being robbed by black people would not be angry and I am sure he wasn't that innocent.

[Grim2.0]

I never said he did not call the police, but it is evident he acted without them;he could easily have stayed in his vehicle! And again there was no break in, in progress that needed immediate actions; he could have waited....

So are you saying we have the right to take the law into our own hands if we do not feel the cops are doing their job? You do get the police have bigger issues to deal with than a guy walking around looking suspicious right? My house was broken into as a kid and took the cops over a hour to get there so this is nothing new as cops have to prioritize. People in that neighborhood are that concerned then buy a security system! Deal with breakins or murders...hmmm


Again, go ahead and support this action and you too can be dragged through the court system for a year when you decide to follow it!


Actually.....

You do have the right to perform a citizens arrest if there is an illegal action being performed, obviously at that point Zimmerman had no reason to perform one (as far as we know) however there is no law stating you cannot follow someone you feel is being suspicious and asking them what they are doing in your neighborhood which it SEEMS that is what he was doing. Should I decide to follow someone on my street that i have never seen before and they get mad at me and attack there is obviously a reason they attacked as they did not want whatever plan they had foiled. A citizens arrest does not mean you can hold them at gun point (unless deemed necessary to preserve a life) but you can apprehend them to further prevent any crime being committed (as long as a crime has been committed). It would appear that the kid went at Zimmerman when he would not stop following him (again as far as we know). You have all of this talk about fighting Nate so here is a scenario for you, if you see a woman's purse get snatched and the perp is running right for you are you going to knock him out so he does not get away, call the cops and have him taken in? That would be a case of a citizens arrest. Perfectly legal and you stopped a crime. Or are you just going to let them by and call the cops and wait for an hour?

[bulldog]

Here is a good article for you EJ on Neighborhood watch rules!

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-14/news/os-trayvon-martin-beth-kassab-031512-20120314_1_orlando-police-block-captains-zimmerman

Quoted from article:
"There is no reason in the world to carry a gun for Neighborhood Watch," said Chris Tutko, a retired police chief who now directs Neighborhood Watch for the sheriffs' association. "It gets people more into trouble than out of it."
A manual published by the association for its "USAonWatch (http://www.usaonwatch.org/)" program makes that very clear.
"It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles," the manual states. "Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous."
Zimmerman is reportedly the self-appointed leader for the group at his complex of town homes. A sign at the gated entrance warns it is surveilled by Neighborhood Watch, and says, "We report all suspicious persons and activities to the Sanford Police Department (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/ORGOV000032.topic)."



Here is one not related to the case:
http://www.sacsheriff.com/crime_prevention/documents/neighborhood_watch_04.cfm

Make sure your citizen patrol:


Undergoes training by law enforcement and have their support;
Works in teams;
Wears identifying clothing -t-shirts, caps, vests, .jackets-or reflective clothing or patches;
Never carries weapons of any kind — e.g. guns, black jack, mace, baseball bat, or knives;
Never challenges anyone;
Always carries a pad and pencil, and a flashlight if it is dark;
Is courteous and helpful to residents of the area being patrolled: and
Keeps logs and files reports with the local law enforcement agency.

[bulldog]

Actually.....

You do have the right to perform a citizens arrest if there is an illegal action being performed, obviously at that point Zimmerman had no reason to perform one (as far as we know) however there is no law stating you cannot follow someone you feel is being suspicious and asking them what they are doing in your neighborhood which it SEEMS that is what he was doing. Should I decide to follow someone on my street that i have never seen before and they get mad at me and attack there is obviously a reason they attacked as they did not want whatever plan they had foiled. A citizens arrest does not mean you can hold them at gun point (unless deemed necessary to preserve a life) but you can apprehend them to further prevent any crime being committed (as long as a crime has been committed). It would appear that the kid went at Zimmerman when he would not stop following him (again as far as we know). You have all of this talk about fighting Nate so here is a scenario for you, if you see a woman's purse get snatched and the perp is running right for you are you going to knock him out so he does not get away, call the cops and have him taken in? That would be a case of a citizens arrest. Perfectly legal and you stopped a crime. Or are you just going to let them by and call the cops and wait for an hour? I agree and that is why I said in "non-emergency situations". I'd help the lady, but a guy walking on a street I'd follow, but would not confront if all he is doing is walking. I can't comment if he attacked Zimmerman as only witnesses are him and a dead person.

[TransNone13]

No solution as we have to go by what the law states.....doesn't mean I can't feel it was the wrong decision. Just saying that juries are not always correct!


The ironic part of this is most of the people that are commenting on this thread on how "justice works" were the same people complaining when the new gun laws went into effect! Wasn't that a similar situation where we have to go with what the government decides. Yet we had a lot of people stating how it was unfair and how wrong it was (and actually supporting police officers that were not going to obey the new gun laws) :dunno:

IRONY!!!!!

What part of the law was not enforced? My understanding is they would have had better chances of a conviction if they had gone after procedural misconduct etc. Also, those citizen watch guidelines, are not laws. If he had a permit, he was within his legal rights.

I think Zimmerman is an idiot, but not a criminal under the law as it stands.

[bulldog]

What part of the law was not enforced? My understanding is they would have had better chances of a conviction if they had gone after procedural misconduct etc. Also, those citizen watch guidelines, are not laws. If he had a permit, he was within his legal rights.
If you are talking about the gun laws, please see post #35 on this thread as that has already been stated when I put link for officer that will not enforce the gun law and people on here that support him!

[Ezzzzy1]

Here is a good article for you EJ on Neighborhood watch rules!

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-14/news/os-trayvon-martin-beth-kassab-031512-20120314_1_orlando-police-block-captains-zimmerman

Quoted from article:
"There is no reason in the world to carry a gun for Neighborhood Watch," said Chris Tutko, a retired police chief who now directs Neighborhood Watch for the sheriffs' association. "It gets people more into trouble than out of it."
A manual published by the association for its "USAonWatch (http://www.usaonwatch.org/)" program makes that very clear.
"It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles," the manual states. "Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous."
Zimmerman is reportedly the self-appointed leader for the group at his complex of town homes. A sign at the gated entrance warns it is surveilled by Neighborhood Watch, and says, "We report all suspicious persons and activities to the Sanford Police Department (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/ORGOV000032.topic)."



Here is one not related to the case:
http://www.sacsheriff.com/crime_prevention/documents/neighborhood_watch_04.cfm

Make sure your citizen patrol:


Undergoes training by law enforcement and have their support;
Works in teams;
Wears identifying clothing -t-shirts, caps, vests, .jackets-or reflective clothing or patches;
Never carries weapons of any kind — e.g. guns, black jack, mace, baseball bat, or knives;
Never challenges anyone;
Always carries a pad and pencil, and a flashlight if it is dark;
Is courteous and helpful to residents of the area being patrolled: and
Keeps logs and files reports with the local law enforcement agency.



But its already been established that there was essentially no police backup. I get that a neighborhood watch that has 100% of the police departments back runs well but its a whole other story when you are setting up your own and protecting yourself.

Its cool Nate if you would "protect" your growingly fucked up neighborhood by sitting in your car with a phone, thats your choice. He made his and shouldnt be under your scrutiny or anyone elses.

What is up with people thinking they know what someone else should do? Do you (as in yourself). Thats the only one you have any power over. That and heaven for bid anyone is ever in a situation like this, you know the part that would kill you is people that werent there acting like they know what should have been done.

[dirkterrell]

I never said he did not call the police,


But your analogy said call the fire department or take matters into your own hands. That is why I said it was a flawed analogy.



but it is evident he acted without them;he could easily have stayed in his vehicle! And again there was no break in, in progress that needed immediate actions; he could have waited....


Which is exactly what he did when advised by the 911 operator. He was following Martin, not trying to force an encounter with him. Again from the 911 call:


Dispatcher

That's the clubhouse, do you know what the-he's near the clubhouse right now?


Zimmerman


Yeah, now he's coming towards me.


Martin was observing the situation, which he had every right to do. He was waiting for the police.



So are you saying we have the right to take the law into our own hands if we do not feel the cops are doing their job?


You do know about the centuries-old concept of a citizens arrest, no? But let's not get distracted with that because that's not what Zimmerman was doing. He was observing suspicious behavior and reporting it to police. He did not chase him down and start an altercation. He followed Martin in an attempt to maintain knowledge of his whereabouts so that he could relay that information to the police. There is no crime in that. There is no "taking the law into your own hands" with that. It is called being a good citizen. And if we now live in a society where people think that is the problem with this case, then we truly are in a downward spiral as a society.



You do get the police have bigger issues to deal with than a guy walking around looking suspicious right? My house was broken into as a kid and took the cops over a hour to get there so this is nothing new as cops have to prioritize. People in that neighborhood are that concerned then buy a security system! Deal with breakins or murders...hmmm


Any police officer will tell you that fighting crime is a task that requires cooperation between the police and the citizens. Zimmerman was acting as an observer and nothing more until Martin, clearly an adherent of the thug lifestyle so glorified by segments of our society, decided to initiate violence on Zimmerman. That is what the jury decided after looking at the evidence. In the time since Martin was killed, over 11,000 young black men were killed (mostly by other young black men), and yet you hardly hear a word about it, certainly not as much as a crisis of that magnitude deserves. But, I don't hear Sharpton raising hell about this "gangsta" culture and trying to convince young people to stay in school and move beyond such a worthless path with their lives. I heard him flapping on the other day about Reverend King. Sharpton isn't worthy of licking the soles of MLK's shoes. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that MLK is dead and racists like Sharpton are alive. Racists of every background benefit by the strife that people like Sharpton and KKK adherents whip up. I think white supremacy nitwits knew their days were numbered with MLK's approach to solving racial issues. MLK was a healer. Sharpton is a flame fanner. And until we have more of the former and less of the latter, this pointless, stupid tension will continue.


Again, go ahead and support this action and you too can be dragged through the court system for a year when you decide to follow it![/QUOTE]

From the facts as determined by the jury, I can't find any fault in what Zimmerman did.

[bulldog]

But its already been established that there was essentially no police backup. I get that a neighborhood watch that has 100% of the police departments back runs well but its a whole other story when you are setting up your own and protecting yourself.

Its cool Nate if you would "protect" your growingly fucked up neighborhood by sitting in your car with a phone, thats your choice. He made his and shouldnt be under your scrutiny or anyone elses.

What is up with people thinking they know what someone else should do? Do you (as in yourself). Thats the only one you have any power over. That and heaven for bid anyone is ever in a situation like this, you know the part that would kill you is people that werent there acting like they know what should have been done. I'd be smart....and move! Why you think I left the ghetto I grew up in and live in Littleton! :D

As for dirks post...pretty crazy he was able to get attacked inside his vehicle...where he should have stayed! Again there was no emergency taking place which made him have to get out of his car. And yeah even if he wasn't at fault think of the time and money he wasted....if you consider that a win situation than we differ as a year of my life and savings means more to me than that. Then you want to point out all the black people killed daily, yet you think a suspicious person is a cops first priority! Sounds to me they have a lot of bigger issues to deal with like you pointed out.

[dirkterrell]

Well like I said my uncle is one for 25 years and he does not condone this! I highly doubt the police do either!!!!! Why you think it is called "watch"...you watch with your eyes!


And that's exactly what he was doing! When Martin went out of sight, he moved to keep him in sight.



You keep thinking Zimmerman was his pleasant guy that calmly walked up to Treyvon...I highly doubt he was that nice! Not making excuses for Treyvon, but common sense tells me a guy upset his neighborhood was being robbed by black people would not be angry and I am sure he wasn't that innocent.
[/quote]

Damn dude, you really need to read the 911 transcript. Martin approached Zimmerman, not the other way around! This "common sense" that you and many others are appealing to does not fit the facts of the case.

Did you know that Zimmerman mentored two young black children whose father was in jail, and continued to do so even when state funding to do so ran out? That's not what a racist man does. He was trying to do something real to help children in a tough situation. But goons like Sharpton want everyone to think that Zimmerman saw a young black man, pursued him and shot him dead because he was black. The jury found that nothing of the sort happened (as did the police chief who was run out of his job).

[bulldog]

And that's exactly what he was doing! When Martin when out of sight, he moved to keep him in sight.

Did you know that Zimmerman mentored two young black children whose father was in jail, and continued to do so even when state funding to do so ran out? That's not what a racist man does. He was trying to do something real to help children in a tough situation. But goons like Sharpton want everyone to think that Zimmerman saw a young black man, pursued him and shot him dead because he was black. The jury found that nothing of the sort happened (as did the police chief who was run out of his job). Yeah bro I am sure Zimmerman just wanted to have a friendly chat and maybe even brought him some flowers....sure bro :lol: You keep bringing the race card into this not me...I've never once said he was racist...just that I do think he was angry (I'd be too if someone was breaking into houses near me too). Nobody was there so the 911 call is a small piece of it!

[dirkterrell]

As for dirks post...pretty crazy he was able to get attacked inside his vehicle...where he should have stayed! Again there was no emergency taking place which made him have to get out of his car. And yeah even if he wasn't at fault think of the time and money he wasted


And after Martin ran off and Zimmerman lost sight of him and stopped following him, he could have gone on to where he was going and that would have been that. Why didn't he call 911 or go on home in the 4 minutes after Zimmerman lost sight of him? Why did he have to circle back and attack Zimmerman? Because he was disrespected by a "creepy ass cracker"? Let's put the blame where it belongs: a bad decision by a racist young man who ascribed to a thuggish culture that settles issues with violence. And until that culture is changed, it's adherents will continue to senselessly die in pointless displays of "manhood".

[TransNone13]

It's obvious everyone has their unflappable views and the verdict is final, IDK why this debate/argument is even valid.

I agree with above ^^.

[bulldog]

And after Martin ran off and Zimmerman lost sight of him and stopped following him, he could have gone on to where he was going and that would have been that. Why didn't he call 911 or go on home in the 4 minutes after Zimmerman lost sight of him? Why did he have to circle back and attack Zimmerman? Because he was disrespected by a "creepy ass cracker"? Let's put the blame where it belongs: a bad decision by a racist young man who ascribed to a thuggish culture that settles issues with violence. And until that culture is changed, it's adherents will continue to senselessly die in pointless displays of "manhood". Sounds like you were there huh?

[rforsythe]

I think we should all just go protest and burn some shit. Seems to be working for folks so far!

[TransNone13]

I think we should all just go protest and burn some shit. Seems to be working for folks so far!

Define working XD. Silly fools, temper tantrums are for kids!

[dirkterrell]

I've never once said he was racist...

And let me be clear that I am not saying you are. I am responding to such claims by Sharpton and many others of his ilk.

And there is no evidence that Zimmerman made any effort to confront Martin. The 911 call, if you listen with any sort of open mind, shows that he was no longer following Martin.

Maybe if Martin had been arrested when he was caught with a burglary tool and a dozen pieces of jewelry, instead of having it covered up by a school police force trying to make itself look good by having fewer kids being arrested, he might be alive today. Martin was a burglar. If he had been arrested, maybe his parents would have known about it and maybe his path could have been changed. But he clearly wasn't this innocent little angel that the press tried to make him appear to be. The curtain got pulled back and some very ugly things came into view. We need to focus on those things and not be distracted by non-existent racism on Zimmerman's part.

[dirkterrell]

Sounds like you were there huh?

Just going on the facts of the case, as decided by a jury. That's how our system works.

[bulldog]

And let me be clear that I am not saying you are. I am responding to such claims by Sharpton and many others of his ilk.

And there is no evidence that Zimmerman made any effort to confront Martin. The 911 call, if you listen with any sort of open mind, shows that he was no longer following Martin.

Maybe if Martin had been arrested when he was caught with a burglary tool and a dozen pieces of jewelry, instead of having it covered up by a school police force trying to make itself look good by having fewer kids being arrested, he might be alive today. Martin was a burglar. If he had been arrested, maybe his parents would have known about it and maybe his path could have been changed. But he clearly wasn't this innocent little angel that the press tried to make him appear to be. The curtain got pulled back and some very ugly things came into view. We need to focus on those things and not be distracted by the distraction of non-existent racism on Zimmerman's part.
And I am sure Zimmerman was not the angel you seem to think he was either. I don't think Martin was either.....

Sheesh thought this was finally ended.....fact is nobody on this site was there or in court room, so we are all speculating!

[bulldog]

Just going on the facts of the case, as decided by a jury. That's how our system works. And I have already proved juries are not always correct by showing how many cases get exonerated and also what is shown in a court room in not always a ALL the facts...just what our system gets to use because of all the BS. You just keep acting like you were there! Fact is to get a guilty verdict you need no to have no "reasonable doubt" and that is a hard thing to accomplish when there are two witnesses and one is dead :dunno:

As the old saying goes; there are three sides to every story. my story, his story, and what actually happened!

[dirkterrell]

And I have already proved juries are not always correct by showing how many cases get exonerated

Ok, so there's a 98-99% chance that my argument is correct and a 1-2% chance that yours is. I can live with that. :)

[bulldog]

Ok, so there's a 98-99% chance that my argument is correct and a 1-2% chance that yours is. I can live with that. :) Prove it. Go shoot someone that attacks you unarmed and got through this since you feel so confident of it. I'll send you some commissary money to your cell as you wait to clear your name :lol: Me I'll call the police or if someone attacks me I'll be man enough to defend myself without a weapon...or take a beating as I have before and survived just fine! Such a great feeling to not be scared without a gun :)

[dirkterrell]

Prove it.

I'm referring to your link on the statistics of false convictions. And your not so subtle hint about my manhood is unnecessary. I am quite well trained in hand-to-hand combat and would use it if that's what the situation required. If it required using a gun, I would. I don't pre-decide. And I don't worry about what you or anyone else thinks of my manhood. That's likely what got Martin killed.

[bulldog]

I'm referring to your link on the statistics of false convictions. And your not so subtle hint about my manhood is unnecessary. I am quite well trained in hand-to-hand combat and would use it if that's what the situation required. If it required using a gun, I would. I don't pre-decide. And I don't worry about what you or anyone else thinks of my manhood. That's likely what got Martin killed. Do you even lift? hahahahahah....jk

And I remember you have hand to hand training as we talked about it before.

Honestly no hard feelings man.....I just like to debate :) It actually helps me learn new things as well. Hopefully I didn't piss you or anyone off, but opinions is what makes a site like this (well in non-bike discussion anyways)

[j0ker]

Do you even lift? hahahahahah....jk

And I remember you have hand to hand training as we talked about it before.

Honestly no hard feelings man.....I just like to debate :) It actually helps me learn new things as well. Hopefully I didn't piss you or anyone off, but opinions is what makes a site like this (well in non-bike discussion anyways)

Hand to Hand training sounds kind of ghey. No disrespect to anyones manhood.

[Ezzzzy1]

Sounds like you were there huh?

No, thats what is now know as facts.

Between 911 call, trevyons call to girl, witnesses and evidence. Lets not forget that there is no doubt in the 6 jurors minds at to this being the chain of events that happened as well.

Listen to what you are saying Nate...


Yeah bro I am sure Zimmerman just wanted to have a friendly chat and maybe even brought him some flowers....sure bro :lol: You keep bringing the race card into this not me...I've never once said he was racist...just that I do think he was angry (I'd be too if someone was breaking into houses near me too). Nobody was there so the 911 call is a small piece of it!

You are making this up in your head. You are saying that there is no way someone that is frustrated with punks in the neighborhood could have followed process and been responsible. Where does that come from? Certainly not the facts. So instead of making stuff up like everyone else that is having a hard time swallowing this why not try to understand what REALLY happened?

[bulldog]

No, thats what is now know as facts.

Between 911 call, trevyons call to girl, witnesses and evidence. Lets not forget that there is no doubt in the 6 jurors minds at to this being the chain of events that happened as well.

Listen to what you are saying Nate...



You are making this up in your head. You are saying that there is no way someone that is frustrated with punks in the neighborhood could have followed process and been responsible. Where does that come from? Certainly not the facts. So instead of making stuff up like everyone else that is having a hard time swallowing this why not try to understand what REALLY happened?
Did you not see this has ended. If you want to continue it we can meet in person as pretty sick of going in circles! Leave you gun at home though and come as a man! :D

[j0ker]

Did you not see this has ended. If you want to continue it we can meet in person as pretty sick of going in circles! Leave you gun at home though and come as a man! :D

Awww, don't go there.

[bulldog]

Awww, don't go there. Sorry. I just get all these people all against me. I try to end it and say I apologize if I upset anyone as was all opinion, then come on here and see I am still being poked. Ghetto me does come out...my bad. I didn't mean to fight, but seeing as I have to be careful who pulls out a gun I thought it was good to mention to leave the gun at home in case it got heated :lol:


I do apologize EJ and you are my friend. I just felt really ganged up on and you know I ain't no punk

[Ezzzzy1]

Anytime anywhere Nate... I will leave my guns at home if you do too :lol:

You got pecs I got tecs!

I dont think anyone is ganging up on you just having a conversation and you are stuck at the top of the teeter totter. No doubt you can hold your own.

Wouldnt it just be easier if you agreed with Dirk and I? 8)

[bulldog]

Anytime anywhere Nate... I will leave my guns at home if you do too :lol:

You got pecs I got tecs!

I dont think anyone is ganging up on you just having a conversation and you are stuck at the top of the teeter totter. No doubt you can hold your own.

Wouldnt it just be easier if you agreed with Dirk and I? 8) Reallly? Hmmm...sounds like a friendly challenge. Joker can you set this up at your facility and ref it? Just a simple MMA match. I am sitting at about 200lbs now so you better bulk up EJ :lol:

It is just pointless because nobody was there and everyone acts like they know what went down when we don't, so we just go in circles and it is annoying already

Ok, yes you guys are right...whatever! And you guys wonder why few people even want to talk guns on here anymore or anything about them.

[Ghosty]

Anderson Cooper is on CNN interviewing one of the six jurors right now (AC-360). Pretty good insight on why they chose not guilty. Regardless of which side you're on. Cooper also asked some very pertinent questions to the pair of defense attornies, both of which had good points.
Dang I missed that; would have been interesting to hear it fropm someone that was in that court room. I assume there was just reasonable doubt. Any idea if that is what the juror said?

Without having to read the last two pages of crazyness, did anyone watch the AC360 interview of that juror? Rather than re-type what I've been doing on FB since yesterday, here is cut & pastes. Might not be perfect, multiple threads:


AmyJean, you're Mom has a lot of good points which I agree with about this not being a race issue. I'm no fan if Zimmerman either, he's indeed a vigilante idiot who should've stayed in his car. But the jury followed the letter of the law, best as they could, with the lack of evidence. Not nearly close enough to send a (possibly, no matter how small that chance is) innocent man to jail.

Watch the Anderson Cooper interview with the one juror who explains a lot about their rationale , it's VERY insightful. I believe their choice was correct. Also watch the short video I posted last night with the black dude talking about the hypocracy of pulling the race card all too often, while tons of black-on-black crime goes unnoticed everyday. Another good rant.

We ALL WISH Treyvon also had his day in court, or there was clearer evidence to show what happened. Unfortunately no. Horrible situation.


I see your points AJ, I just still don't think it's a race issue, AFTER hearing the history of the neighborhood, other past incidents there, what the juror said about the various testimonies, etc. I want everyone to see that AC360 juror interview. They really believed that GZ was the one on the ground (witness saw them fighting), getting punched, etc. They were almost certain GZ was the one that yelled for help on the tape. They think GZ was the one in fear for his life. I don't care what the "Internet says" about Treyvon being a little skinny innocent student and GZ being a big rough guy. I'll side with the jury, med. examiner, and cops. They have the next closest idea of what really happened (as close as possible anyway) besides GZ himself. No one else on the planet is more qualified, without Treyvon around. Certainly not any of the public or us.

Side-note: I'm a STRONG supporter of Colorado's Castle Doctrine, "Make My Day" law. But I'm on the fence about Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. Need to research more.


Yes, agreed. He's an overzealous idiot who started something rolling, with good intentions, but it snowballed out of control, then ends in tragedy. I do believe he genuinely wanted to help watch his neighborhood from ANY intruders, not maliciously target just black strangers, just my opinion. After hearing of past incidents and actions of his.

Technically proven innocent, with some luck, and poor prosecuting State Attornies. Even AG Holder says there isn't nearly close to enough evidence to allow for a Federal hate crime prosecution to be attempted


David, I won't defend either one since ONLY Zimmerman knows the real truth. No one else on the planet knows. He IS A giant idiot, possibly trigger-happy vigilante douchebag for leaving his car ignoring the dispatcher's order to stay put until police arrive. But I WILL defend the premise that no one is guilty until PROVEN so with evidence rather then send an innocent man to jail. This clown got lucky under the circumstances. But since there's a slim chance he's innocent, not-guilty is appropriate, imo. Unless someone has a crystal ball and can see what happened exactly?

Btw OJ is a different case, imo, because there was a TON of evidence but a jury full of idiots let him go anyway.

[Ghosty]

Here is the (kinda pro-Zimmerman) video I mentioned above:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mooiI9wIagY

[Ezzzzy1]

Reallly? Hmmm...sounds like a friendly challenge. Joker can you set this up at your facility and ref it? Just a simple MMA match. I am sitting at about 200lbs now so you better bulk up EJ :lol:

It is just pointless because nobody was there and everyone acts like they know what went down when we don't, so we just go in circles and it is annoying already

Ok, yes you guys are right...whatever! And you guys wonder why few people even want to talk guns on here anymore or anything about them.


You would be a walk in the park without your guns! :lol:

And if you quit bringing guns up no one else would talk about them...

[JKOL]

And I am sure Zimmerman was not the angel you seem to think he was either. I don't think Martin was either.....


Unfortunately, there is more evidence that Zimmerman was a better man than Martin, despite the efforts of the media to portray things differently.

An interesting perspective:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=bF-Ax5E8EJc

[Ghosty]

Where were all these people when OJ was set free? Yeah, they were celebrating.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-69qSA3bzU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPfbi4lekTo

[bulldog]

You would be a walk in the park without your guns! :lol:

And if you quit bringing guns up no one else would talk about them...
Oh I got you...leave my guns at home as in arms. :lol:

I know I should stay out of the gun talks...how many times have I said this :lol: Nobody wants to talk fitness though and I've talked about sportbikes for way too long on here, so I get bored. Guess I should work more, but I get my work done so fast since I have been doing this forever and CSC becomes like crack and afraid I will miss something.


Anyways I will be honest and say my girl called me and told me our dryer broke, so I think that just put my anger way and for a moment I took this too serious. Sorry again homey...life long lesson to control anger!

[Ghosty]

Dang I missed that; would have been interesting to hear it fropm someone that was in that court room. I assume there was just reasonable doubt. Any idea if that is what the juror said?
Found some of it. Read the article, not just the video:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/justice/zimmerman-juror-book/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

[bulldog]

Here is the (kinda pro-Zimmerman) video I mentioned above:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mooiI9wIagY I agree with this guy 100%! I never thought this was a racist issue at all and people turned it into one and I am tired of hearing that too. Ghetto people (any race) doing things to themselves and that is why I had to get away from the ones I grew up with. I go back and fools are still gangbanging at 35 years old then complain how hard they have it.

As I posted about even my gay friends...tired of hearing everything bad that happens to them is because they are gay. Invite him to UFC fights and fool tells me he won;t go because everyone will tease he is gay....I was like fool nobody would even know, but you feel like you need to tell people like they care


Going down line listening to videos...thanks for the education and not bashing my opinion, I am open to listen :)

[Ezzzzy1]

Unfortunately, there is more evidence that Zimmerman was a better man than Martin, despite the efforts of the media to portray things differently.




This. Unfortunately the trayvon supporters dont want to listen to logic.

[Ezzzzy1]

Oh I got you...leave my guns at home as in arms. :lol:

I know I should stay out of the gun talks...how many times have I said this :lol: Nobody wants to talk fitness though and I've talked about sportbikes for way too long on here, so I get bored. Guess I should work more, but I get my work done so fast since I have been doing this forever and CSC becomes like crack and afraid I will miss something.


Anyways I will be honest and say my girl called me and told me our dryer broke, so I think that just put my anger way and for a moment I took this too serious. Sorry again homey...life long lesson to control anger!


All is good homie!

[j0ker]

All is good homie!

BUT if you guys do want to get it on in a gym environment...... let me know. :D

[bulldog]

This. Unfortunately the trayvon supporters dont want to listen to logic. I listened to every second of the 35 minutes clip; although I would not consider myself a Trayvon supporter...just a person that is not all that sure if what was said on this video happened 100% since it is all based on Zimmerman and the small bit of evidence found. I based my opinion on seeing Zimmerman's injuries and did not appear to me a guy who's face was bashed into a curb or near death. But saying that, if he was bashing his head into a curb (like stated) then I do feel he was justified in protecting himself (but I'd think his face would be a mess). I just am not 100% sure it happened like that, but I do not think there was NOT enough evidence to prove Zimmerman's defense wrong either; hence why he was not given a guilty verdict.

Not arguing, just giving my opinion....maybe it did happen exactly like that!

And really you can blame the media for all the incorrect info given out to people who did not follow the case. I feel they are the ones that muddied this up!

[Ezzzzy1]

BUT if you guys do want to get it on in a gym environment...... let me know. :D


Its something I would like to find time for again but there is just not enough time in the days right now.

Whats the name of your gym again?

[bulldog]

Its something I would like to find time for again but there is just not enough time in the days right now.

Whats the name of your gym again? MMA matches are three 5 minute rounds....would take 15 minutes (tops) of the 1440 minutes in a day :lol:

Just kidding man :D

[CaptGoodvibes]

I assume you mean you would protect yourself against a unarmed man with a gun as well. That is your decision and you can go through what Zimmerman did; would be cool to say "hey I know that guy on tv being tried for murder" :lol: Again there are times and places when protecting yourself is justifiable with a gun, but it may not always be the best solution so people need to think about that.


Imagine a situation where a pumped 20 something attacks an ill 40 something. Does the attacker get a free pass?

[Geology Rocks]

I listened to every second of the 35 minutes clip; although I would not consider myself a Trayvon supporter...just a person that is not all that sure if what was said on this video happened 100% since it is all based on Zimmerman and the small bit of evidence found. I based my opinion on seeing Zimmerman's injuries and did not appear to me a guy who's face was bashed into a curb or near death. But saying that, if he was bashing his head into a curb (like stated) then I do feel he was justified in protecting himself (but I'd think his face would be a mess). I just am not 100% sure it happened like that, but I do not think there was NOT enough evidence to prove Zimmerman's defense wrong either; hence why he was not given a guilty verdict.

Not arguing, just giving my opinion....maybe it did happen exactly like that!

And really you can blame the media for all the incorrect info given out to people who did not follow the case. I feel they are the ones that muddied this up!

it was the back of his head. Martin was on top of GZ punching. Two black eyes and a broken nose support the reports of martin being on top. The cuts on the back of GZ head and grass stains on the back of his coat support the reports of the back of his head being bashed into pavement.

[Wrider]

Bulldog, it's good and fine that you're in uber shape and a fightaholic, but other people have no real interest or drive to get there. They have other things to spend their lives on. You cannot argue that most of your time isn't taken up by working out and training. A lot of people don't have that luxury of time and have other hobbies they enjoy more.

So then why do you say those people shouldn't be allowed to choose to defend themselves via an alternative method, such as a firearm. Not everyone that carries is a fat lazy slob who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack, but they choose to carry so that they can defend themselves and others more efficiently and effectively.

Again in a reference to me, I've never lost a fight, but I guarantee there are plenty people who could take me out without a second thought. That's why I carry. Just in case...

[Grim2.0]

Bulldog, it's good and fine that you're in uber shape and a fightaholic, but other people have no real interest or drive to get there. They have other things to spend their lives on. You cannot argue that most of your time isn't taken up by working out and training. A lot of people don't have that luxury of time and have other hobbies they enjoy more.


So then why do you say those people shouldn't be allowed to choose to defend themselves via an alternative method, such as a firearm. Not everyone that carries is a fat lazy slob who couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack, but they choose to carry so that they can defend themselves and others more efficiently and effectively.


Again in a reference to me, I've never lost a fight, but I guarantee there are plenty people who could take me out without a second thought. That's why I carry. Just in case...




To add to this there are many people who have kids and a wife to look after as well, I may know how to fight but if i am out with my wife and kid and I get jumped or mugged by 2 or more people fighting won't keep one of them from harming my kid or wife. A conceal carry has a higher chance of eliminating the threat than my fists.


You know damn well I workout all the time I am in shape and i keep it that way but if I am approached and attacked while with my wife and kid or just by myself I will shoot long before my fist gets swung. It's the twentieth century buddy nobody fights fair anymore America has dissolved to an every man/woman for themselves country, you have to do what younhave to do to survive, and this entire case with the media spinning it has now turned the people against the people.


I don't have to like Ej to say: every post he has made I agree with.

[bulldog]

All I'll say is I have a gun too! Can never be too prepared, but I don't carry all the time so I know there will be times when a firearm is not a option. Guess some of you carry ALL the time so that is the difference. Again I am not against protecting yourself with a firearm in the right situation !!!!!! I was just saying I was not 100% sure the Zimmerman situation went down like he said....to me they were not facts because they were presented in a courtroom (minus some FACTS like Martin was shoot when he was on top and trauma to the back of his head.) I don't get what is so hard about speculating that there were others ways this could have went down. All in all this came down to not enough evidence so that is why he was let go....not because everyone on that jury believed his story......because it is still a story (unless a video comes out of the attack...then that story could be turned into facts).

As for fitness it has nothing to do with being able to beat up people (there are 125lb guys that would clean the floor with me), but all about prolonging my life and enjoying a higher quality of life. Why people think that isn't important and other things are is beyond me....sound like excuses to me as it takes maybe a hour a day of the 24. America is mainly a bunch of lazy people now so we look for the easy way out of everything...hence the raise in obesity (and even the fact nobody fights fair anymore)! Then we all wonder why we aren't the powerful country we once were.....

Anyways a young life was lost and it could have been prevented, but that doesn't seem to mean much to people on this board (even if his family is suffering now from grief and you could care less about Martin...I hate seeing moms cry!). To me he was still a kid and even if he was a bad one many are like that at his age and turn things around (we need to remember we all do not get raised in the same situations and some are put into this lifestyle at a early age and know nothing better; be fortunate you were not one)....he just has no chance now. So I guess you all say he deserved it and we will keep it at that.



So keep flaming me for not agreeing with you....maybe someone will at least respect I stand up to people on this board instead of running and hiding (hence the lack of members that are staying on this site nowadays...coincidence....go ask Devaclis a long time member who left with his entire crew...or maybe Sasha and his entire crew who rarely post now).

[dirkterrell]

Anyways a young life was lost and it could have been prevented, but that doesn't seem to mean much to people on this board (even if his family is suffering now from grief and you could care less about Martin...I hate seeing moms cry!).


I can only speak for myself, but I too wish this could have been prevented. My argument has been that Martin made the fatal mistake. He had several options at his disposal and he chose violence. This could be an opportunity to teach others who might make the same mistake. When Zimmerman was on the phone talking to 911 and Martin was standing a safe distance away, he should have called 911 himself, let the police arrive and settled the situation. When he decide to run, he should have run to where he was going, leaving an out of shape guy in the dust, and called 911. But he didn't do any of those things. Instead of listening to people like Sharpton and going on like Zimmerman followed him because of his race, which the 911 call clearly shows he did not do, why don't these people work to teach young people the lawful and civilized way to deal with a situation like this in the future instead of glorifying beating someone's ass? Because they thrive on this sort of strife and divisiveness, and until we as a whole people cast this sort of behavior aside, tragedies like this will continue to happen.



To me he was still a kid and even if he was a bad one many are like that at his age and turn things around (we need to remember we all do not get raised in the same situations and some are put into this lifestyle at a early age and know nothing better)....he just has no chance now. So I guess you all say he deserved it and we will keep it at that.


Yes, he was bad, despite efforts by school district police and others to cover it up to make themselves look better. Until education becomes more important than street cred, this sort of thing will continue. His parents need to quit blaming everyone else and take a long, hard look at themselves and how their behavior shaped their son's future.



So keep flaming me for not agreeing with you....maybe someone will at least respect I stand up to people on this board instead of running and hiding

Again, speaking for myself, I'm not flaming. Just arguing the facts as I see them. I grew up in a world where true racism, from both blacks and whites, reared its ugly head on a daily basis. I have seen my black friends belittled by members of their own race because they were making an effort to learn. I stood up against that. I had a falling out with a member of my immediate family for several years because of racist mistreatment of a black friend of mine. I stood up for what was right. And that is what I feel I am doing now. The people like Sharpton are like those who belittled my black friends- ignorant dumbasses more interested in stirring up shit rather than making the world a better place. The truth is where we will find that better world, not in the falsehoods painted by racist minds.

[Ezzzzy1]

I thought these were funny as hell. Finally some Zimmerman love out there.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/photo213_zpsa9ad4f04.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/photo213_zpsa9ad4f04.jpg.html)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/photo39_zps4bd05720.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/photo39_zps4bd05720.jpg.html)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/photo113_zps23ab2e9f.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/photo113_zps23ab2e9f.jpg.html)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/photo45_zpscaf5654d.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/photo45_zpscaf5654d.jpg.html)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/photo114_zps9e4ccbf4.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/photo114_zps9e4ccbf4.jpg.html)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/photo212_zpse8d5e4cc.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/photo212_zpse8d5e4cc.jpg.html)
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/1044814_144329625770876_558686720_n_zpsbd677133.jp g (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/1044814_144329625770876_558686720_n_zpsbd677133.jp g.html)

[bulldog]

Cool, I can do funny then. Hope this isn't too soon, but sent to me and figured you guys may like it:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/bulldog420/fatality_zpsd687449e.gif

P.S. If it is offensive to ANYONE, please let me know and I will take it down!

[#1Townie]

Sorry ej but I never took you up on the bet. I even agreed with you that nothing would probably come of it. Actually if you had paid actually read what I wrote I got what I wanted. A jury to hear the case. I'm not mad. Bitter. None of that. Actually I could care less. Fuck martin and Zimmerman. Oh and I have known where the site is. Just been really busy.

Oh and ej I wanted it to go to trial because an unarmed person was killed by an armed. Because I wasn't there and couldn't make a decision I wanted a jury to do so.

BTW the new shop is coming along nicely. Should be finished next week.

[#1Townie]

Cool, I can do funny then. Hope this isn't too soon, but sent to me and figured you guys may like it:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/bulldog420/fatality_zpsd687449e.gif

P.S. If it is offensive to ANYONE, please let me know and I will take it down!

Blaaahahahahaha I laughed my ass off.

[TFOGGuys]

Speaking to those that say "Trayvon was just a teenager, just a kid": Trayvon Martin was 17 years old. At 17, he could join the Marine Corps, and carry a weapon into war. Had he killed Zimmerman, you can be damned sure that prosecutors would have charged him as an adult, and if convicted, he would have gone to big boy prison. Yes, he was under the age of 18, but he was no child.

[rforsythe]

I'd say this thread perfectly exemplifies why Zimmerman received a not guilty verdict. There is clear disagreement on what took place, clear reasonable doubt as to whether a crime was absolutely committed, or just might have been. I listened to TM's parents explain their disbelief at how the jury responded, wanting the jury to "put themselves in our shoes" (their words). It's not a jury's job to be in anyone's shoes, in fact doing so would be a dereliction of duty. The jury took an independent look at the information presented, absent emotional attachment to the case or an attempt to feel what TM's folks were feeling, and reacted accordingly. The prosecution failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt (the most important phrase ever uttered in a court of law btw), that he committed an actual crime. They alluded to it, they proved it might have happened, but could not conclusively prove that it did. The jury had NO choice but to say not guilty.

Also, being not guilty is not the same as being innocent. However the bar for finding him legally guilty of a crime was not reached, and that's that. It really does not matter how his parents or anyone else felt, it really does not matter what anyone else would do in whatever version of the situation they've fabricated in their head, it just matters what the prosecution could prove, and what the defense could argue.

Anyone feeling that our legal system, where an accused person has a clear right to defend themselves and present other points of view, has failed them in this case is welcome to move to one of a number of other countries where the mere accusation of a crime is enough to get you stoned, buried alive, hung, shot, or other more righteous punishments, usually at the behest of public opinion, and absent any real trial.
...No? Didn't think so. Our legal system did exactly what it was designed to do - prevent someone from being imprisoned or executed for a crime absent true proof that it happened.

[Ezzzzy1]

I saw the same interview, where treyvons parents said that they just wanted the jurors to put themselves in their shoes... I laughed. Only because, to me, it proves that they would stand behind their son no matter what. Even if they knew he was wrong and to me thats flawed.

What made it even worse was watching treyvons mom on the stand say that it was her son screaming in the 911 tapes. Really? No. You know the sound of your son screaming for his life.

In My opinion it was just their push to be right... Heaven for bid their son was a piece of shit thug that turned the page on someone following him and got shot for it. Hell, good REAL parents would teach their kid that a possible outcome of kicking someones ass is getting shot. Doubt that one ever came up at the dinner table.

It amazes me that they "knew" their son but would never admit what he was. They were painting a picture to fuel the media bullshit. Its almost like they felt that by getting people in this country on their side that they would win.

[#1Townie]

[

I saw the same interview, where treyvons parents said that they just wanted the jurors to put themselves in their shoes... I laughed. Only because, to me, it proves that they would stand behind their son no matter what. Even if they knew he was wrong and to me thats flawed.

What made it even worse was watching treyvons mom on the stand say that it was her son screaming in the 911 tapes. Really? No. You know the sound of your son screaming for his life.

In My opinion it was just their push to be right... Heaven for bid their son was a piece of shit thug that turned the page on someone following him.

It amazes me that they "knew" their son but would never admit what he was. They were painting a picture to fuel the media bullshit. Its almost like they felt that by getting people in this country on their side that they would win.

Well they are parents of a lost child. You really expect any parent to be like oh yeah you followed our kid and he whooped your ass for it. Good thing you shot his bitch ass. And your last line is funny. Are you saying he was a thug because he smoked weed and got into a couple of fights?? If he was a thug he would have been armed and started shooting just for being looked at wrong. For a guy who keeps bitching about people not being there you sure do have you mind made up on what kind of person martin is. Lol. hypocrisy is a beautiful thing.

I missed you.

[Ezzzzy1]

[


Well they are parents of a lost child. You really expect any parent to be like oh yeah you followed our kid and he whooped your ass for it. Good thing you shot his bitch ass. And your last line is funny. Are you saying he was a thug because he smoked weed and got into a couple of fights?? If he was a thug he would have been armed and started shooting just for being looked at wrong. For a guy who keeps bitching about people not being there you sure do have you mind made up on what kind of person martin is. Lol. hypocrisy is a beautiful thing.

I missed you.


You are funny because you paint pictures in your head of what happened vs. using physical evidence, recreating the scene, speaking with witnesses and you know general intelligent things to do when trying to piece the pieces of a puzzle together.

Its not being hypocritical by stating the facts man. This is the first time in all your typing that you have actually (sort of) followed what the investigators and proof have said happened.

Either way. Its been nice around here without you. Im probably the only person that feels that way (:lol:) but I think its time to just not see your posts anymore.

[mdub]

pls take this to the PM section and perform your on-line conjugal treatments to one another.

[#1Townie]

Oh my bad. I thought Zimmerman followed the person who had NOT committed a crime just because he didn't look right. My bad. So zimmy was still in his truck when the thug started to whoop his ass? The one part that I found very interesting from the trial was the ME saying Georgy boys injuries were so minor it was pathetic. Well not her words but yeah. Oh I'm sure you didn't miss me one bit. Buuuut I did find it funny that the first post I see from you is talking shit. Its okay butter cup. I still love ya. It did hurt to see you feel so poor of me but I will get over it. Oh and hey. You have threatened me with violence before and even stated repeatedly that you will gladly fight people. Does this make you a thug?

[#1Townie]

Hey I have months worth of catching up. And I haven't had a chance to figure out PMS yet. Lol

[mdub]

haha....okay....

[#1Townie]

Is it too soon to ask for some cuddle time?

[mdub]

you'll have to wait for grimsta

[#1Townie]

Stop acting like you don't want to.

[dirkterrell]

But, I don't hear Sharpton raising hell about this "gangsta" culture and trying to convince young people to stay in school and move beyond such a worthless path with their lives. I heard him flapping on the other day about Reverend King. Sharpton isn't worthy of licking the soles of MLK's shoes. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that MLK is dead and racists like Sharpton are alive. Racists of every background benefit by the strife that people like Sharpton and KKK adherents whip up. I think white supremacy nitwits knew their days were numbered with MLK's approach to solving racial issues. MLK was a healer. Sharpton is a flame fanner. And until we have more of the former and less of the latter, this pointless, stupid tension will continue.


Here is a much more eloquently stated version of my argument above:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324448104578618681599902640.html

[JKOL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebu6Yvzs4Ls

[Darth Do'Urden]

That was a truly excellent video. Thank you very much for posting it, JKOL.

[TFOGGuys]

Yup...Zimmerman is a monster...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/22/george-zimmerman-rescued-man-from-truck-crash-last-week-police-say/

Truly evil.

[#1Townie]

Yup...Zimmerman is a monster...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/22/george-zimmerman-rescued-man-from-truck-crash-last-week-police-say/

Truly evil.

I can't speak for everyone but in don't think he is a monster or evil. I just think he made a poor choice and someone died because of it. That's just how I feel. Did the 17 year old have to fight him? No. Did Zimmerman have to follow a person who he did not witness commit a crime? No. Honestly I don't blame the kid for swinging on him. I would have too. Just walking down the street and some random yahoo starts following me. Yeah I'm not going to run. I see a gun on him and I would have fought for my life. Only difference between me and that kid is I would have smashed Zimmerman skull into that ground with everything I had. He would have more than a bump on the head.

[TFOGGuys]

Ummm...did you even look at the link?


George Zimmerman, who has not been seen publicly since his acquittal in the murder of Trayvon Martin earlier this month, surfaced last week to rescue an unidentified family trapped in an overturned vehicle on a Florida highway, police said Monday.
Sanford Police Department Capt. Jim McAuliffe told Fox News that Zimmerman, 29, was identified by a crash victim as the man who pulled him from the mangled vehicle.
“George Zimmerman pulled me out,” firefighters were told by the unidentified driver, according to McAuliffe.
The Seminole County Sheriff's Office said the single-car accident occurred July 17 at approximately 5:45 pm. and involved a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had left the road and rolled over.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/22/george-zimmerman-rescued-man-from-truck-crash-last-week-police-say/#ixzz2ZsMsFslO



I guess I should have used the sarcasm smiley...http://www.mmaplayground.com/forums/i/pi/654585_1.gif

[Ezzzzy1]

Great video JKOL!

I saw the reports yesterday about Zimmerman helping the family... Im sure Treyvon would have done the same thing :lol:

[JKOL]

Great article Dirk, exactly how I feel.

I think it's crazy how many people determined their beliefs about this whole case based on the media and the "facts" as presented to the public. All the people that blast FOX for being biased to the right are the same people watching MSNBC and CNN as if there is no bias or agenda there. I trust the media and politicians equally, which is to say not at all. If the weather man tells me it is raining outside, I look for myself.

[Wrider]

Facts are annoying and useless when they counteract what people think should happen... Especially when it comes to race and guns.

[#1Townie]

Yes I did. You posted a link about him pulling a guy out of an accident. You also in a very sarcastic manor called him the devil or whatever. I was just saying I didn't think that.

[j0ker]

I can't speak for everyone but in don't think he is a monster or evil. I just think he made a poor choice and someone died because of it. That's just how I feel. Did the 17 year old have to fight him? No. Did Zimmerman have to follow a person who he did not witness commit a crime? No. Honestly I don't blame the kid for swinging on him. I would have too. Just walking down the street and some random yahoo starts following me. Yeah I'm not going to run. I see a gun on him and I would have fought for my life. Only difference between me and that kid is I would have smashed Zimmerman skull into that ground with everything I had. He would have more than a bump on the head.
This is the most sane post I have ever seen from you. I feel a twinge of fear for totally agreeing with you. :D

[Ghosty]

I'd say this thread perfectly exemplifies why Zimmerman received a not guilty verdict. There is clear disagreement on what took place, clear reasonable doubt as to whether a crime was absolutely committed, or just might have been...
Exactly!


...is welcome to move to one of a number of other countries where the mere accusation of a crime is enough to get you stoned, buried alive, hung, shot, or other more righteous punishments, usually at the behest of public opinion, and absent any real trial
Did you read about the Norwegian woman who was raped then thrown in jail in Dubai, just for reporting it? Had to have a "royal pardon" to get released and fly home. Gee, how nice of the Dubai government. FUCK those MiddleEastern countries still living in the dark ages.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook

Of course the rapist went free...


Speaking to those that say "Trayvon was just a teenager, just a kid": Trayvon Martin was 17 years old. At 17, he could join the Marine Corps, and carry a weapon into war. Had he killed Zimmerman, you can be damned sure that prosecutors would have charged him as an adult, and if convicted, he would have gone to big boy prison. Yes, he was under the age of 18, but he was no child.
From RightwingNews.com, so take it with a grain of salt. Don't know if these are true. If they are, then yes, the guy is just more ghetto trash that can barely speak English:

http://www.rightwingnews.com/10-random-140-character-thoughts/20-trayvon-martins-tweets-that-stand-out-language-warning/

(And yes I'm totally fine with weed, and pro-legalization, etc. That's not the point.)

[#1Townie]

Exactly!


Did you read about the Norwegian woman who was raped then thrown in jail in Dubai, just for reporting it? Had to have a "royal pardon" to get released and fly home. Gee, how nice of the Dubai government. FUCK those MiddleEastern countries still living in the dark ages.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook

Of course the rapist went free...


From RightwingNews.com, so take it with a grain of salt. Don't know if these are true. If they are, then yes, the guy is just more ghetto trash that can barely speak English:

http://www.rightwingnews.com/10-random-140-character-thoughts/20-trayvon-martins-tweets-that-stand-out-language-warning/

(And yes I'm totally fine with weed, and pro-legalization, etc. That's not the point.)

Holy crap a horny 17 year old???? What is this world coming to?

[Wrider]

A druggie/drunk 17 year old with no respect for anyone, especially anyone outside of his race or sex.

[JKOL]

Holy crap a horny 17 year old???? What is this world coming to?

The point is all about character, the media showed Trayvon as a clean cut fun loving honors student that was hunted by a racist man with a hatred of blacks. The facts that the media chose to ignore, intentionally misleading the public, was there was tons of evidence that contradicts the pictures the media painted of both Trayvon and Zimmerman. The media wrote the news instead of reporting the facts.

I know some people on this forum are 100% pure badass (in real life, not just behind a keyboard) and when followed they would choose to stop and fight. I myself would choose to not confront the person following me unless I was forced to do so. I don't have a damn thing to prove to anyone in this world. I don't care to find out if I am stronger or a better fighter than anyone else in this world. I have far too much to lose. If Trayvon would have taken my approach, he would still be alive. He chose to show the "creepy cracka" how tough he was....we all saw how well that worked out.

[GMR]

The point is all about character, the media showed Trayvon as a clean cut fun loving honors student that was hunted by a racist man with a hatred of blacks. The facts that the media chose to ignore, intentionally misleading the public, was there was tons of evidence that contradicts the pictures the media painted of both Trayvon and Zimmerman. The media wrote the news instead of reporting the facts.

I know some people on this forum are 100% pure badass (in real life, not just behind a keyboard) and when followed they would choose to stop and fight. I myself would choose to not confront the person following me unless I was forced to do so. I don't have a damn thing to prove to anyone in this world. I don't care to find out if I am stronger or a better fighter than anyone else in this world. I have far too much to lose. If Trayvon would have taken my approach, he would still be alive. He chose to show the "creepy cracka" how tough he was....we all saw how well that worked out.

:up:

[Drano]

A friend of mine posted this link on Facebook a couple hours ago. It contains a ton of information, some of which has already been discussed.
http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

[#1Townie]

A druggie/drunk 17 year old with no respect for anyone, especially anyone outside of his race or sex.
Smoking weed makes a person a drug addict? Lol!! So he's bad ass enough to be lethal but if he drinks he's a child?

[#1Townie]

The point is all about character, the media showed Trayvon as a clean cut fun loving honors student that was hunted by a racist man with a hatred of blacks. The facts that the media chose to ignore, intentionally misleading the public, was there was tons of evidence that contradicts the pictures the media painted of both Trayvon and Zimmerman. The media wrote the news instead of reporting the facts.

I know some people on this forum are 100% pure badass (in real life, not just behind a keyboard) and when followed they would choose to stop and fight. I myself would choose to not confront the person following me unless I was forced to do so. I don't have a damn thing to prove to anyone in this world. I don't care to find out if I am stronger or a better fighter than anyone else in this world. I have far too much to lose. If Trayvon would have taken my approach, he would still be alive. He chose to show the "creepy cracka" how tough he was....we all saw how well that worked out.

And again you expect a 17 year old to make that decision and have no problem with a grown ass man basically starting the whole situation. You are right if martin had not thrown the first punch the fight wouldn't have happened. Maybe..... also if Zimmerman would have just been eyes for the dispatcher we could say the same thing. Fact is and this is not an assumption but Zimmerman knowing he was was armed decided to leave the safety of his vehicle and I fight started. We will never actually know the who's the what's and the why's. What we do know for fact is Zimmerman seen a person who looked out of place. He called the cops. I'm on bored at this point. The moment he left his vehicle he opened the door to this kind of situation. Like you just said you don't like confrontation. That seems to be very typical for co. So I'm guessing you also wouldn't have been following the "asshole who always gets away".

I would have 100% supported Zimmerman if he had witnessed a crime. Problem was he didn't. He took action upon a person who at the time had committed no crime. Both parties have their faults in this but one was in their late 20s and armed the other in his late teens and had an ice tea and some candy. That is where I have the problem. Zimmerman is not some gun crazed nut job just like martin wasn't a thug. It was two morons who got in a fight.

[Wrider]

Smoking weed makes a person a drug addict? Lol!! So he's bad ass enough to be lethal but if he drinks he's a child?

Pot, "lean", and according to his Facebook other drugs, not to mention his affinity for drinking every weekend. But hey I'm just judging his personality based upon what he himself posted everywhere. You're welcome to disagree, but again, they couldn't find a single character witness credible enough to put on the stand. That's pretty sad IMO.

[#1Townie]

Well bro his to report only came back with weed. So whatever. What about Zimmerman getting in an actual street fight with a cop? Neither of these fuck bags are angels.

[j0ker]

I imagine being followed by a guy who keeps watching me and calling the cops on his cellphone right behind me. I would eventually get tired of it and confront the guy too. I don't mean I would attack him, but I would definitely confront him with a big WTF mister?! To me, Zim was inciting the situation by being IN the situation. If he is doing neighborhood watch, then he should not be close to the suspect and he should be WATCHING and reporting not confronting -or- not being close enough to confront the suspect. That is exactly what orgs like Neighborhood Watch try to prevent. They do not want The Watch (http://www.hdwallpapersinn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/The-Watch-2012-1920x1200-Wallpaper-WallpapersHunt.com-.jpg) to become physically engaged with anyone.

[I`m Batman]

I would probably do the same thing as Zimmerman if there have been multiple robberies in my neighborhood. I would "follow" (at a distance, not confront, same as Zimmerman) so I can keep track of where the person is so he will be caught when the police shows up. Zimmerman did not confront TM, he couldn't even see him, it was TM that did the confronting while Zimmerman was walking back to his truck. Zimmerman even tried to walk away but TM didn't let that happen.

[JKOL]

I imagine being followed by a guy who keeps watching me and calling the cops on his cellphone right behind me. I would eventually get tired of it and confront the guy too. I don't mean I would attack him, but I would definitely confront him with a big WTF mister?! To me, Zim was inciting the situation by being IN the situation. If he is doing neighborhood watch, then he should not be close to the suspect and he should be WATCHING and reporting not confronting -or- not being close enough to confront the suspect. That is exactly what orgs like Neighborhood Watch try to prevent. They do not want The Watch (http://www.hdwallpapersinn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/The-Watch-2012-1920x1200-Wallpaper-WallpapersHunt.com-.jpg) to become physically engaged with anyone.

Read the link Drano posted. Here it is again. Please read it! It contains a lot of facts you seem to be missing.

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

There is a big difference between "WTF Mister?!" as you say you would do and knocking the guy down and jumping on top of him and beating the shit out of him. Trayvon doesn't get shot for "WTF Mister?!"

Zimmerman got out of his truck because Trayvon took off running into an area Zimmerman couldn't follow in his truck, nevermind that the 911 operator asked Zimmerman where Trayvon went.

[j0ker]

He should have stayed in his truck and avoided all this mess. I guess that was my point.

[CaneZach]

He should have stayed in his truck and avoided all this mess. I guess that was my point.

I see a lot of people saying this and maybe it's just the way I look at things, but I always all myself, "Did he have the right to to exit his vehicle?" Where do our rights end? When someone else's rights begin. If I'm being followed, do I have the right to ask someone why they keep tailing me? Of course! But do I have the right to assault someone because they're following me? Absolutely not! I have the right to defend myself from someone, but if they've made no threats or taken no action to harm me, then I'm not justified in using force.

There were a lot of mistakes made by both people involved and certainly poor judgement, but only one of them escalated the situation to a physical encounter. As always, that's my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

[#1Townie]

I see a lot of people saying this and maybe it's just the way I look at things, but I always all myself, "Did he have the right to to exit his vehicle?" Where do our rights end? When someone else's rights begin. If I'm being followed, do I have the right to ask someone why they keep tailing me? Of course! But do I have the right to assault someone because they're following me? Absolutely not! I have the right to defend myself from someone, but if they've made no threats or taken no action to harm me, then I'm not justified in using force.

There were a lot of mistakes made by both people involved and certainly poor judgement, but only one of them escalated the situation to a physical encounter. As always, that's my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

Oh I'm sure there is far more to this story that zim gets to live with for the rest of his life.

[Ezzzzy1]

He should have stayed in his truck and avoided all this mess. I guess that was my point.

Why be a neighborhood watch man then? I mean if all you are going to do is sit in your car and call the cops then I would say the position is pretty much useless...

I honestly do not see any problem with Zimmerman getting out of his car and trying to see what treyvon was up to. Who is anyone to say what someone else should, coulda, woulda done? I mean shit, if Zim hadnt wanted to look after his neighborhood and instead just moved this wouldnt have happened... Blablabla.

I kinda feel that because most people are just pawns in this world and they wouldnt have stepped up and DONE something about the crime problem they just dont get it.

[#1Townie]

http://www.adasheriff.org/CommunityPrograms/NeighborhoodWatch.aspx

Not that it will get read. Problem with ejs thinking is that turns into vigilantism.

[mdub]

[QUOTE=Ezzzzy1;742294]Why be a neighborhood watch man then? I mean if all you are going to do is sit in your car and call the cops then I would say the position is pretty much useless...
QUOTE]

bro ..go get some fresh air. too much chem from plasti coat....???

It is not useless to call the cops if you see something out of the ordinary going on in your hood. Better safe than sorry minding ur bzness and let the law do their doodee.

[Ghosty]

After everything I've read from all these sources, many linked here, and all the discussions over the last couple weeks, and the jury interviews, I am completely fine with the verdict. I hope more facts come out that the Judge and prosecution suppressed. They tried to run this case by emotion alone, while ignoring most of the facts. The defense won for good reason.

[I`m Batman]

After everything I've read from all these sources, many linked here, and all the discussions over the last couple weeks, and the jury interviews, I am completely fine with the verdict. I hope more facts come out that the Judge and prosecution suppressed. They tried to run this case by emotion alone, while ignoring most of the facts. The defense won for good reason.
+100000000000000
Totally agree. Facts over emotions.

[j0ker]

Why be a neighborhood watch man then? I mean if all you are going to do is sit in your car and call the cops then I would say the position is pretty much useless...

Calling the cops IS what Neighborhood Watch is all about. They do not condone you engaging anyone. They try to train new Watch groups about not physically engaging anyone. Let the LEO's do their job. You just be the eyes and ears.

Now if Zim was part of the Neighborhood Guardian Angels then I would understand why he confronted T. Also, T would most likely be alive....

[#1Townie]

Joker stop trying to use common sense. That shit don't work anymore.

[Ezzzzy1]

Calling the cops IS what Neighborhood Watch is all about. They do not condone you engaging anyone. They try to train new Watch groups about not physically engaging anyone. Let the LEO's do their job. You just be the eyes and ears.

Now if Zim was part of the Neighborhood Guardian Angels then I would understand why he confronted T. Also, T would most likely be alive....

When did Zimmerman "engage" anyone? I thought he followed treyvon? Zimmerman was just being the eyes and ears it sounded like.

So what do they call the next step up from literally doing nothing but sitting in your car and calling the cops? You guys do realize that the whole point to what they were doing was to prevent crime, right? There would be absolutely NO WAY to accomplish that if all you were doing was sitting in your car. Think about how much time it takes to call 911, tell the operator whats going on, wait for the cops, tell them again whats going on etc... by the time the cops got there you wouldnt know anything! They would be like "where did the guy go" and you would be like "over there, ten minutes ago". LAME

[Ezzzzy1]

Its also funny that people would reference "what a neighborhood watch is" :lol:

There is no definition of what one is or what they all have to be.... Its whatever the F you want it to be. If you start a "watch" and decide that you are going to kick the shit out of anyone that comes by, you can still call it a watch.

No set of rules. No outline on how to do it. Sure maybe some models but show me just ONE that says "stay your ass in the car 100% of the time".

[#1Townie]

Face palm.

Guess the watch part just fails to catch on to some people.

[Drano]

And yet again, all that Zimmerman did was "watch" what Martin was doing. Martin had only himself to blame for deciding to turn around and start some shit.

[#1Townie]

And yet again, all that Zimmerman did was "watch" what Martin was doing. Martin had only himself to blame for deciding to turn around and start some shit.

He did??? Guess you are missing the point of an armed person chasing an unarmed one being a problem. If Zimmerman had only "watched" he would have stayed in the vehicle where he was safe. Kind of hard for me to believe that he felt fear for his life while he is armed chasing innocent people around. And yes innocent. Zimmerman did not witness a crime. Not a single one. He just didn't like how martin looked. At the point martin took off and zim gave chase zim became the aggressor.

[Drano]

Zimmerman didn't chase anyone, he followed and "watched". You make it out like Zimmerman was running after Martin with the gun in one hand and his phone in the other. He did no such thing. In all likelihood, Martin didn't even know Zimmerman was armed until the altercation. Secondly, Martin was anything but a sweet little angel walking through the neighborhood. Did Zimmerman profile an African American walking through his neighborhood, yes. And why? Because a similar circumstance occurred where Zimmerman had spotted an African American scouting a house which was later burglarized. He was well within his right to be concerned that Martin may well be doing the same thing.

[#1Townie]

Zimmerman didn't chase anyone, he followed and "watched". You make it out like Zimmerman was running after Martin with the gun in one hand and his phone in the other. He did no such thing. In all likelihood, Martin didn't even know Zimmerman was armed until the altercation. Secondly, Martin was anything but a sweet little angel walking through the neighborhood. Did Zimmerman profile an African American walking through his neighborhood, yes. And why? Because a similar circumstance occurred where Zimmerman had spotted an African American scouting a house which was later burglarized. He was well within his right to be concerned that Martin may well be doing the same thing.

Oh yes and Zimmerman being the perfect calm cool collective person he is never swung on a cop either? Noooooo. Look man I would have been 100% in Zimmerman corner if he had witnessed a crime. Fact is he didn't. Not one. Like what was said earlier when does your rights end and another persons begin? And chasing doesn't mean running. But I'm also highly suspect as to how a person catches up to another person who is running without doing so themselves. Bro neither of these fuck bags are good people. Zimmerman is a wannabe cop with a hot head. Martin was a hormonal teen who like to smoke weed and get in a bit of trouble. It was the perfect storm shit to happen. I hold Zimmerman to a higher standard because first of all he was the concealed permit holder. Second he was the adult in the situation. So no I have no respect for him. And I'm sorry but big old 6 foot 175 pound martin wasn't much of a threat. That little fuck bag would have been down by anyone with a little experience in self defense. This neighborhood watchman captain was simply out done by a kid. But its cool. His life will never be normal again.

[Drano]

Oh yes and Zimmerman being the perfect calm cool collective person he is never swung on a cop either? Noooooo. Look man I would have been 100% in Zimmerman corner if he had witnessed a crime. Fact is he didn't. Not one. Like what was said earlier when does your rights end and another persons begin? And chasing doesn't mean running. But I'm also highly suspect as to how a person catches up to another person who is running without doing so themselves. Bro neither of these fuck bags are good people. Zimmerman is a wannabe cop with a hot head. Martin was a hormonal teen who like to smoke weed and get in a bit of trouble. It was the perfect storm shit to happen. I hold Zimmerman to a higher standard because first of all he was the concealed permit holder. Second he was the adult in the situation. So no I have no respect for him. And I'm sorry but big old 6 foot 175 pound martin wasn't much of a threat. That little fuck bag would have been down by anyone with a little experience in self defense. This neighborhood watchman captain was simply out done by a kid. But its cool. His life will never be normal again.

From everything I've learned about Zimmerman over the past few weeks, he actually is a good person. He was charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest, while he was drunk, when he was 20 in 2005. Oh, and that charge was reduced to "Resisting without violence". From all accounts it seems like Zimmerman made an effort to turn his life around and be a contributing member of society. He wasn't a vigilante. When his community decided to start a watch, they trusted Zimmerman enough to put him in charge of it. Yet again, none of this screams "wannabe cop" to me. You can choose to believe what you want to believe, but based on the character evidence, Zimmerman was only trying to keep his neighborhood safe. Martin was a lowlife, violent punk. He didn't deserve to die, and had he chosen to get out of the situation instead of escalating it he would likely still be alive.

[#1Townie]

From everything I've learned about Zimmerman over the past few weeks, he actually is a good person. He was charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest, while he was drunk, when he was 20 in 2005. Oh, and that charge was reduced to "Resisting without violence". From all accounts it seems like Zimmerman made an effort to turn his life around and be a contributing member of society. He wasn't a vigilante. When his community decided to start a watch, they trusted Zimmerman enough to put him in charge of it. Yet again, none of this screams "wannabe cop" to me. You can choose to believe what you want to believe, but based on the character evidence, Zimmerman was only trying to keep his neighborhood safe. Martin was a lowlife, violent punk. He didn't deserve to die, and had he chosen to get out of the situation instead of escalating it he would likely still be alive.

The moment he left his truck he stopped watching and became a vigilante. I like how you have no problem with one man trumping on another's rights. We have the right to walk down the street without worrying about people stalking us because we don't look like we fit in. Martin had committed no crime. He just looked out of place.

As far as the cop thing. You really missed the part about behind denied by Virginia? Some reason I can't paste a link. Probably my phone.

Look man did Zimmerman get his ass kicked? Yeah. I would say he did. Was martin a prick? Yeah I would say he was. But I'm sorry man I leave the better decisions up the grown ass man. The man who carried a gun. When you carry you have to hold yourself to a different standard. Zimmerman was found not guilty and that's how it worked. But his poor choice to fuck with some random kid one rainy night has ruined his life. And was it worth it? A person is dead. Him and his family are now targets. And for what? Because some dumbshit thought another looked out of place. Yeah he's an outstanding human being. He made choices without thinking. Now he gets to live with it for the rest of his life.

[Drano]

Vigilante
A member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate); broadly : a self-appointed doer of justice http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vigilante

Zimmerman was not out looking to be an executor of justice. At no point prior to the shooting did he take the law into his own hands. Zimmerman kept his distance and stayed in contact with the police. It is not against the law to keep an eye out for criminal activity. If you want to talk about rights, perhaps it would help if you have actually studied them. He did not command Martin to stop, nor did he apprehend or detain him. Zimmerman did nothing in clear violation of Martin's rights, therefore it cannot be presumed that he violated anything. He followed somebody who he suspected was up to no good, end of story.


Stalking:
A course of conduct directed at a specific person that involves repeated (two or more occasions) visual or physical proximity, nonconsensual communication, or verbal, written, or implied threats, or a combination thereof, that would cause a reasonable person fear. http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/stalking/

Zimmerman had just as many rights to be on that street as Martin did. The only person in this entire scenario who decided to take justice into their own hands was Martin. Facts outweigh opinions. http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

[#1Townie]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vigilante

Zimmerman was not out looking to be an executor of justice. At no point prior to the shooting did he take the law into his own hands. Zimmerman kept his distance and stayed in contact with the police. It is not against the law to keep an eye out for criminal activity. If you want to talk about rights, perhaps it would help if you have actually studied them. He did not command Martin to stop, nor did he apprehend or detain him. Zimmerman did nothing in clear violation of Martin's rights, therefore it cannot be presumed that he violated anything. He followed somebody who he suspected was up to no good, end of story.

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/stalking/

Zimmerman had just as many rights to be on that street as Martin did. The only person in this entire scenario who decided to take justice into their own hands was Martin. Facts outweigh opinions. http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

And that is where we disagree. And that's fine. But really?? He kept his distance so well he got punched in the face. I will always say he never should have got of the truck and should have listened to the dispatcher. Martin isn't the only who will swing on someone who is following them for no reason.

[Drano]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=7qfkRTC5gF4

[#1Townie]

Are you trying to give me more ammo? He walked around his truck with his hand in his waste band like he had a gun and he still felt getting out of the truck was a good idea? Look I don't believe Zimmerman account of what happened before the fight. I just don't. People are liars. But I noticed you skipped over me saying a wannabe cop on a power trip.

[GMR]

call me A.D.D..... we're still talking about this?

[#1Townie]

call me A.D.D..... we're still talking about this?
Welcome to a forum. Some topics can stay on topic. Its two very divided sides to a bad day. People talk.

[bulldog]

I have to say it......I agree with Townie#1 :shock: :D

(and what Ralph said too, verdict was because there was not enough evidence and being found "not guilty" doesn't always mean you are innocent.....

[Ezzzzy1]

I have to say it......I agree with Townie#1 :shock: :D

(and what Ralph said too, verdict was because there was not enough evidence and being found "not guilty" doesn't always mean you are innocent.....


Not enough evidence? What if that was ALL the evidence (facts). I mean sure, if they had found a not from Zimmerman saying he was going to do it...

I just dont understand this. Like people are saying there was more evidence that wasnt found? Or that Zimmerman covered some up?

I say no way. All the facts were on the table. Everything was spelled out and in the end it all added up to NOT GUILTY.

Essentially people are saying they are not happy with the outcome but if there was more evidence he would be guilty? Doesnt make any sense.

[bulldog]

Not enough evidence? What if that was ALL the evidence (facts). I mean sure, if they had found a not from Zimmerman saying he was going to do it...

I just dont understand this. Like people are saying there was more evidence that wasnt found? Or that Zimmerman covered some up?

I say no way. All the facts were on the table. Everything was spelled out and in the end it all added up to NOT GUILTY.

Essentially people are saying they are not happy with the outcome but if there was more evidence he would be guilty? Doesnt make any sense. I've already went over this before.....what were facts? There we like two facts proven; Zimmerman shot from under Treyvon and there were wounds to Zimmerman’s back of head. What other FACTS were there???? Facts would be a video showing the entire altercation exactly as it happened instead of a story of two people (one who is dead and couldn’t state their side)

So yes I do believe if there were a video proving exactly what happened then it may have been enough for a conviction depending how it really went down (or maybe it would have cleared Zimmerman faster, yet there were little facts). As Townie said, and I have said before, I am not sure it went down as Zimmerman said and people lie….especially to save themselves.

So basically everything you say you don’t get on what I say on this, I feel exactly the same way with you and wonder why you find it so hard to believe this may not have went down exactly like Zimmerman said. Do you feel people don’t lie and that is it??? Again there were not enough factual evidence to prove what he said was untrue…therefore a not guilty verdict (has to be proven without any reasonable doubt). We also need to remember that the prosecution was probably some low paid public defender and money does make a huge difference on how a case it presented. If there were two of the best lawyers like OJ Simpson had maybe things would have went different. Again, to me it was all hearsay of what happened…..

[dapper]

Do you feel people don’t lie and that is it??? Again there were not enough factual evidence to prove what he said was untrue…therefore a not guilty verdict (has to be proven without any reasonable doubt). We also need to remember that the prosecution was probably some low paid public defender and money does make a huge difference on how a case it presented. If there were two of the best lawyers like OJ Simpson had maybe things would have went different. Again, to me it was all hearsay of what happened…..

Give people the benefit of the doubt.
The prosector was Assistant State Attorney John Guy.
The defense could have a public defender, if the accused could not provide their own.

I do not see what the continuous issue is really about.
Nate, what's really bothering you?

[bulldog]

Give people the benefit of the doubt.
The prosector was Assistant State Attorney John Guy.
The defense could have a public defender, if the accused could not provide their own.

I do not see what the continuous issue is really about.
Nate, what's really bothering you?
Give people the benefit of the doubt....yeah right! Our world is not based on that anymore and 99% of people lie at some point in their life (the pope may be the 1% that does not). Even if I gave the benefit of the doubt, wouldn't that work both way and I should give Treyvon the same benefit :dunno:

So state attorney John Guy over Johnnie Cochran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnie_Cochran), Robert Kardashian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kardashian), and F. Lee Bailey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._Lee_Bailey). I'll take the later anyday! :lol: And was never saying John Guy is not good, but there is a reason rich people hire their own attorneys over state appointed ones. I understand Zimmerman didn't have a high profile lawyer either, just saying in general.

Nothing bothering me other than replying to Ezzzzy's post. This is a forum to discuss topics.....already dead enough around here. I am just one person that doesn't seem afraid to voice his opinion.....that is all it is a opinion

[#1Townie]

Hmmm nine pages of passion and no flame.