Seasoned guys at HPR help with turn 9 and 10!

[zrouth]

So I went to HPR monday and it was un-fucking-believeable. Greatest thing i've ever done with my clothes on to be sure. I got a really good feel for most of the turns and which lines allowed me to maintain good throttle control except for 2 turns. Turn 7, and then the combo after 8 where you go right and left down the hill and then into 10 that really fast right hander.

So lets start with turn 7. I keep on the outside and I'm hard on the brakes and then i lean in and get on the throttle quick. Sometimes I missed what I was using as a late apex and then I would be on the throttle all the way until the first cone marker but I'd be on the left hand side and not where i wanted to be for that following hairpin. Also if I gave it too much gas too early I would end up having to roll off and standing the bike up as I know that I"m not supposed to roll off mid corner completely leaned over. So after coming through that when I would do it kind of correctly I'd end up coming in pretty hot and just keeping steady throttle kind of coasting through the entire corner and then a little gas once I completed the corner and then hard on the brakes and back down to 2nd for the left hairpin, turn 8. I feel that maybe this isn't the best way to do this. Should I be keeping my entry speed really high and just keep the throttle held instead of rollling on? I really have no idea and that corner left me confused as to which is the quickest way through (assuming you're not trying to pass anyone). Thoughts?

And now My question involves how you guys take turns 9 and 10. Towards the end of the day I was getting better at turn 8. Braking later and later and then hitting that apex in 2nd and rolling on nice and smooth as I pick the bike up. At this point i'm full throttle in 2nd and going up into 3rd as I turn right and then left down that hill. My problem was that if I stayed on the throttle all the way through the left part of turn 9 I would have to get really hard on the brakes before hitting 10 and I would usually end up with less entry speed than I wanted or could have actually sustained. I didn't get to try this because I only had a meezly 4 hours in the afternoon to learn everything from scratch but I thought about it later and thought that maybe just rolling off the throttle in 3rd as I flick the bikke to the left down that hill and then just touching hte brakes to get the front settled for a quick turn into (10) might be the best way to approach that section. Do you guys keep the throttle pinned all the way through the right and left of turn 9 and then get hard on the brakes or do you just keep it pinned and then roll off a little and flick it into 10 at a much faster pace than I probably think is possible at the moment? I'm a total n00b so if any of you guys have any insight onto how you take those corners or what works best for you I'd really appreciate it. I'm on a race prepped kawa zx6rr. Thanks!

[rybo]

Good morning! Welcome to the addiction (I know this to be true, because you're posting about T9 at 1:50 AM)

You have a lot of questions here, but I think I can answer most of them with a few simple statements.

1) The apex is the most important part of the corner. Play with the entry and the exit all you like to find something that works, but do your best to get to the apex every time.

2) Work on being a really good rider before being concerned about going fast. Good riders almost always get fast. Those riders that start fast don't always get good, and they often crash a lot in the process.

3) Accelerating out of the corner (T7) - use the throttle when you can take away lean angle. Adding throttle at full lean is a recipe for a crash. Same with brakes. When you get a moment check out the "traction circle" (google is your friend).

4) T8 is a slow corner. Everyone has to go slow there. Take the slow corners slow and the fast corners fast. Trying to go fast in a slow corner = crashing. Again, the most important part of this corner is getting the apex, which is late. This sets you up for T9.

5) T9-T10 are fast corners. Going down the hill is acceleration all the way to 9B and then brakes for T10. I wouldn't say that the brake needs to be used heavily there on the full configuration, but it's for real on the North course configuration. Again, getting to the apex of 9B so that you can set up to be on the far left side of the track before entering 10 is the key.

My last bit of advice - The controls on the motorcycle are like faucets. They are variable, so you can dial them on a little or a lot. A mistake that I see a lot of new track riders make is they treat the controls like light switches (On / Off). One of the things that motorcycles have that is different than cars is that we can actually achieve 100% weight transfer to either the front or the rear wheel. When we do that right (progressively load the tire to increase the size of the contact patch) then there is a truly AMAZING amount of grip available. If we do it wrong (use the brake too hard too soon) then there isn't much grip, because the tire isn't loaded, and we fall down.

HPR is a REAL racetrack. The current motorcycle lap record holder is a professional racer and we rarely see times anywhere close to that record. Learning it in 1/2 day might be possible if you're a professional roadracer, but for the rest of us it could take years to REALLY know it. I've been at this for a little more than 10 years now, and I still learn a little something each time I go to the track. It's part of what makes this all so addicting to me.

I'm glad you had a great day! See you out there again soon.

Scott

[tecknojoe]

OP, ask rybo ^ about on track lessons. It was hands down the best money I spent all season (except for my race license :p)

[UglyDogRacing]

So I went to HPR monday and it was un-fucking-believeable. Greatest thing i've ever done with my clothes on to be sure. I got a really good feel for most of the turns and which lines allowed me to maintain good throttle control except for 2 turns. Turn 7, and then the combo after 8 where you go right and left down the hill and then into 10 that really fast right hander.

So lets start with turn 7. I keep on the outside and I'm hard on the brakes and then i lean in and get on the throttle quick. Sometimes I missed what I was using as a late apex and then I would be on the throttle all the way until the first cone marker but I'd be on the left hand side and not where i wanted to be for that following hairpin. Also if I gave it too much gas too early I would end up having to roll off and standing the bike up as I know that I"m not supposed to roll off mid corner completely leaned over. So after coming through that when I would do it kind of correctly I'd end up coming in pretty hot and just keeping steady throttle kind of coasting through the entire corner and then a little gas once I completed the corner and then hard on the brakes and back down to 2nd for the left hairpin, turn 8. I feel that maybe this isn't the best way to do this. Should I be keeping my entry speed really high and just keep the throttle held instead of rollling on? I really have no idea and that corner left me confused as to which is the quickest way through (assuming you're not trying to pass anyone). Thoughts?

There is no reason to brake hard going into 7. You come out of turn 6 in 2nd gear and you are accelerating shifting to the third before going into 7. Use the brakes lightly to compress the front to get the bike turned up the hill and then roll on the throttle. You should not be any further to the left than mid track on the exit so you can get set up for the entry to 8. And you shouldn't be coasting anywhere.




And now My question involves how you guys take turns 9 and 10. Towards the end of the day I was getting better at turn 8. Braking later and later and then hitting that apex in 2nd and rolling on nice and smooth as I pick the bike up. At this point i'm full throttle in 2nd and going up into 3rd as I turn right and then left down that hill. My problem was that if I stayed on the throttle all the way through the left part of turn 9 I would have to get really hard on the brakes before hitting 10 and I would usually end up with less entry speed than I wanted or could have actually sustained. I didn't get to try this because I only had a meezly 4 hours in the afternoon to learn everything from scratch but I thought about it later and thought that maybe just rolling off the throttle in 3rd as I flick the bikke to the left down that hill and then just touching hte brakes to get the front settled for a quick turn into (10) might be the best way to approach that section. Do you guys keep the throttle pinned all the way through the right and left of turn 9 and then get hard on the brakes or do you just keep it pinned and then roll off a little and flick it into 10 at a much faster pace than I probably think is possible at the moment? I'm a total n00b so if any of you guys have any insight onto how you take those corners or what works best for you I'd really appreciate it. I'm on a race prepped kawa zx6rr. Thanks!


When you pass 9B, get on the brakes lightly while still maintaining your throttle and get your body position set up for turn 10. Trail the brakes from 9B all the way to 10. This will get the front compressed and avoid the abruptness of getting on the brakes hard right before 10.

[zrouth]

Thanks everyone for the input! UglyDog that's exactly what I was looking for. Rybo thanks for the tips, so what about on track lessons?