Question about the left turn into the shopping center by the hoffbrau in Westminster

[HR636]

I was making a left turn here, my first time ever crossing this intersection. I stopped, yielded to oncoming traffic, signaled and then made a safe turn. An unmarked crown vic came out of nowhere and lit me up. He said there was a no left turn sign. I said I wasn't aware and I did not see one. Even though my driving record is squeaky clean I was given a 4 point 180 dollar ticket. I went back to see where the sign was and all I could find was a do not enter sign on the northeast corner of the entrance to the strip mall planted in the grass half way up the sidewalk. I had assumed this meant do not enter into the oncoming lane that exits on the left side of the median since the double yellow lines were broken on the inside both left and right telling me I could make a turn into the businesses.

I was cited for Turn Prohibited by Sign or Official Traffic Control Device. Should I try to fight it or give up and pay their revenue trap?

[HR636]

I guess it's easier to see in broad daylight rather than pitch black, but there are no other signs posted anywhere saying no left turn.
http://oi40.tinypic.com/2dkclj4.jpg

[AOK303]

you wont win, sucks but id just take the plea and move on

[HR636]

I really can't afford it.. that does suck.

[AOK303]

you can do payments they do it in loan form, but not seeing a sign does not count as there is no sign, state wins

[HR636]

I'm pretty sure the city has access to no left turn signs and could post one to make it more apparent what the actual law is. I wouldn't be surprised if this was deliberately set up for revenue. I make 7.50 an hour. 180 dollars takes me over a week to make after taxes. That's my food for the next month. I might fight it just so I can tell the court how I feel about paying that much for something I could have been warned about. I could understand if I was being reckless, but in this case it's purely about money.

[Aaron]

After viewing the pic, I'd take a plea.

[AOK303]

he posted a pic link

but if arron says its worth a shot after he sees the pic id challenge it

[Aaron]

The pic didn't work the first time I viewed it.

Ya, definitely don't fight that one haha. Sorry...

1) The sign is pretty clearly placed facing traffic coming from your direction.
2) The shape of the drive makes it clear left turns aren't allowed
3) There was no break in the double yellow line, the painting seen in the pic prevents drivers from entering the "dead" lane.

[AOK303]

If anything Take a pic at night with out a flash show to Da tell him how much you make and that you wont be able to eat if they keep fine HIGH your fine with pleeding see if he can drop it too something that comes to 80 or 90 bucks

[HR636]

The shape of the drive is irrelevant as the entrance to 62nd from ward is shaped in the same way so it is right turn only exiting to ward but still allows left turns from ward to 62nd. The break in the double yellow is indicating that turns are legal from the inside of the double yellow, either way turns from double yellow lines are legal if they are made into a business.

[Aaron]

The shape of the drive is irrelevant as the entrance to 62nd from ward is shaped in the same way so it is right turn only exiting to ward but still allows left turns from ward to 62nd. The break in the double yellow is indicating that turns are legal from the inside of the double yellow, either way turns from double yellow lines are legal if they are made into a business.
I'm talking from experience here, I wish you the best of luck, but I'd say the chances of you winning are extremely low.

[HR636]

I know, but I think this is the last time I'll take it in the ass from the government. If all I get is a fuck you and a higher fine I'm gonna stand up for myself this time.

[Grim2.0]

The shape of the drive is irrelevant as the entrance to 62nd from ward is shaped in the same way so it is right turn only exiting to ward but still allows left turns from ward to 62nd. The break in the double yellow is indicating that turns are legal from the inside of the double yellow, either way turns from double yellow lines are legal if they are made into a business.

True but the sign says "do not enter" for those attempting to turn left into that entrance, you got your ticket fair and square I hardly see that as the law "fucking you over".


is there not an immediate pay option on your ticket to pay a certain amount and take less points?

if you fight it the DA will offer you 2 points and the fine, if you refuse and you don't win, "which your chances of winning are slim" you'll be paying a higher fine plus court costs and still get 4 points.

Im not trying to be a dick but your argument of "I could have been given a warning" won't mean shit to the judge, and may even piss them off. Words spoken in front of a judge need to be chosen wisely.

[mxer]

I live near there and there is often a cop radaring people in the middle school nearby. I doubt it's a "revenue generator". The shape of the drive is definitely a "one way" and the blatant no enter sign. The cop was wrong that there is a no left turn sign but since when do cops care if they are actually right or wrong? Is the 4 point and 180 dollar fine the plea deal that was sent in the mail? If so, that seems pretty steep for no priors.

[3point5]

Hey HR - not trying to be a dick here but I think the consensus is to plea out - which I agree with - it won't save any money today but it'll save you points which will save you money in the long run. The 'suicide' turn lane doesnt superceed the 'do not enter sign' which is angled and placed correctly. It's not for the right turn lane as you suggested, if it was you'd have one sign in the island and one on the left side of the exit(not the right side). Poor lighting is not an excuse either, your driving record doesn't mean much, nor does yielding and signaling.

BUT, if you do fight this, (which isnt a bad idea, IMO) talk to a lawyer first…talk to a lawyer that will give you a free 30minute consultation to see if you have a case…I would NOT fight this without a lawyer…after talking to a lawyer make a educated decision weighing all your options.

[#1Townie]

Bro as a long time friend trust me you won't win this one. Best bet is to go to court and talk to the DA and work something out. That sign is clear and the entrance makes it even clearer. Sucks but sometimes we have to suck it up and deal. Hope all is well man. Give me a call sometime.

[longrider]

Not trying to pile on but I also say take the plea. They got you fair and square, the Do Not Enter is plainly visible and the shape of the curbing obviously makes this a right in/right out access. Live and learn

[j0ker]

Bro as a long time friend trust me you won't win this one. Best bet is to go to court and talk to the DA and work something out. That sign is clear and the entrance makes it even clearer. Sucks but sometimes we have to suck it up and deal. Hope all is well man. Give me a call sometime.

Good advice right here. You might get lucky and the DA will cut you some slack. It has happened to me many times before. To me, it looks like its a do not enter and is pretty obvious, but who knows.

Good luck!!

[Repsol a095]

I got a ticket about a year ago for speeding out in Gleenwood Springs. I was totally guilty; however, instead of just paying the fine, I called the clerk in the courthouse and asked if there was anything she could do for me. I just left it at that; I did not go into detail.

I think it was a four point ticket, but if I mailed the cash in within 20 days it would be a two point ticket. She dropped it down to a one point ticket, and took off $50.

I would just call and see what they can do; it can't hurt. Worse case scenario, you end up right back where you started.

[Mother Goose]

The shape of the drive is irrelevant as the entrance to 62nd from ward is shaped in the same way so it is right turn only exiting to ward but still allows left turns from ward to 62nd. The break in the double yellow is indicating that turns are legal from the inside of the double yellow, either way turns from double yellow lines are legal if they are made into a business.
I work over by 62nd and Ward, and it's not shaped the same as the intersection you got the ticket at. The part where you would turn left onto 62nd coming from southbound Ward, is straight, not curved like the picture you posted. And there isn't a Do Not Enter sign. It's the same if you were going north on Ward to turn left onto 62nd. I think you have to bit the bullet on this one, sorry man.