Tow vehicle / toy hauler thread

[asp_125]

So we've been looking at toy haulers and tow vehicles. Not the 8x12 track trailers & 1/2 tons, ...the bigger stuff.

Right now leaning towards the trailer / truck combo rather than a motorhome / trailer combo; mostly so we can have an around town driver when we're at our destination. I'm guessing the trailer (~25-30ft) with the toys loaded will be ~9000lbs, and thinking F250 or Ram2500. I don't think the Tundra / Titan is up to pulling that amount of weight even with 5th wheel.. are they? :dunno:

Then there's gas vs diesel? Pros and cons? I've read the thread about avoiding the 6.0 and 6.4L diesels.

Figure some of you here have pretty stout race rigs and might be able to weigh in.

[#1Townie]

I have a 6.4 and a 7.3. The 6.4 has had some slight issues nothing tooooo bad. Both times was the high pressure fuel gasket and being a f450 it was a cab off ordeal. Warranty covered both times. Ha went heard much about the new 6.7. Sounds like a beast but that's about it. The 6.4 has tons of power but still doesn't feel like my 7.3. I have put thousands upon thousands of miles on both. 100kish on both. Both towing. As for trailers if you want to get a camper/toy hauler one I can speak for is the raptor.

http://www.keystonerv.com/mobile/brand/Raptor

I have repod a bunch of these. They are amazing. Also seem to hold up nicely. I often repod trailers and could spend forever documenting the damage to them that was from being cheaply made but the keystone trailers seemed to hold up better. Also the space inside with the pop outs you would never know you basically had a single car garage on the back of the damn thing.

I also like 5th wheels over bumper. Sure you loose bed space on the truck but the weight is a little more even on the frame. That helps if you get stuck in some bad weather. plus I hate balls. Lol. All in all whatever you look at just remember the most important part. Do you like it? Lay on the beds. Remember you will be sleeping and eating and basically living in it when you are out. So comfort should be a big concern with it.

[birchyboy]

Have you seen the Tundra ad where they haul the space shuttle around? Seems pretty capable to me!

[asp_125]

Have you seen the Tundra ad where they haul the space shuttle around? Seems pretty capable to me!

I've seen the ad. But I've heard it's recommended to stick to no more than 75% of the max towing capacity in the mountain west. I think the Titan is right at 9500lbs and the Tundra at 10K. Plus there's the issue of braking .. would not want to have 1/2 ton brakes coming off Eisenhower.

[birchyboy]

I've seen the ad. But I've heard it's recommended to stick to no more than 75% of the max towing capacity in the mountain west. I think the Titan is right at 9000lbs. Plus there's the issue of braking .. would not want to have 1/2 ton brakes coming off Eisenhower.

I was joking :) My towing experience is very limited.

[The GECCO]

Diesels are more expensive to buy, but will last longer and pull better. If you're contemplating towing anything more than 6K lbs I would really go diesel.

My Dodge Ram has treated me well. It's an 05, I bought it in 05 with 9k on the clock. It just turned over 234,000 and the grand total of repairs to date are:

- U-joints at 140k
- Water pump at 170k
- Fuel injector at 198k

Gets decent mileage (20mpg highway unloaded) and pulls my 14k lb 5th wheel with no issues at all.

[dirkterrell]

I've been looking at basically the same situation. I also concluded that the truck/trailer setup was the best answer. I settled on an F350 dually with the 7.3 because it was a good deal and the reputation of the 7.3 is pretty good. And I picked up a fifth wheel hitch from Ralph. For pulling stuff as big as you're talking about, you definitely want a diesel. I prefer a 5th wheel for big loads like that, but you'd probably be ok with a weight distributing hitch.

Townie, thanks for the input on the Raptor. That's the one that had risen to the top in my search.

[Ph03niX]

Diesels are more expensive to buy, but will last longer and pull better. If you're contemplating towing anything more than 6K lbs I would really go diesel.

My Dodge Ram has treated me well. It's an 05, I bought it in 05 with 9k on the clock. It just turned over 234,000 and the grand total of repairs to date are:

- U-joints at 140k
- Water pump at 170k
- Fuel injector at 198k

Gets decent mileage (20mpg highway unloaded) and pulls my 14k lb 5th wheel with no issues at all.
+1. My grandpa's 1997 dodge cummins (diesel) has 237k miles on it and he pulls a 40ft RV up the mountains all day. (5th wheel) He lives in Steamboat and brings it over Eisenhower every couple of months.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Diesels are more expensive to buy, but will last longer and pull better. If you're contemplating towing anything more than 6K lbs I would really go diesel.Yup!!!!!!

http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/ToyHaulerboat.jpg

[Slo]

Jeff, you're right about taking the Tundra/Titan out of the equation. To pull that kind of weight with the Tundra, it's possible, but then your talking about adding a weight distributed hitch, and also a brake controller of some sorts, not sure if the 2014' Tundra has it built in. But either way, you are close to maxing out recommended towing capacities, and also need to watch tongue weight which isn't much to max out on the Tundra.

13-17 mpg around town/highways driving really slow, but towing, expect 6-8 mpg at best for the Tundra. For lighter loads, Tundra is great, but for pulling 9k lbs, definitely look into something else. Distance range will be a factor as well with the tundra, gas light comes on after 19 gallons used.

[Filo]

Just remember - anything townie recommends because he likes it MAY be easier to repo :) . But, pay your bills and that isn't a problem.

[Slo]

Just remember - anything townie recommends because he likes it MAY be easier to repo :) . But, pay your bills and that isn't a problem.

Hahaha that is awesome!!!!

[asp_125]

Yup, leaning towards a 5th wheel & diesel kinda like Kim'nDean's setup minus the boat.

[#1Townie]

It ain't no joke if you don't... yeah I hate that show. Lol.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Yup, leaning towards a 5th wheel & diesel kinda like Kim'nDean's setup minus the boat. If you're looking for used of any brand, or a new ford, I HIGHLY recommend starting at Courtesy Ford and ask for Kristian Strub (Kristian on this board). He's their (25-year) sales manager. Forget four hours of haggling, you'll know in a few minutes if he has something for you.

Tell him Dean sent ya...

[FZRguy]

Ditto on Kristian at Courtesy (maybe GO now) at south Broadway and C470. I could have saved hours of BS by going there first.

[rforsythe]

+more on Kristian, have bought my last two trucks from him. No bullshit is an understatement. I had a 6.0 previously and let's just say I had some disagreements with it on various topics (especially those pertaining to running like it was supposed to). The new truck is a '13 F350 6.7L and is a f'n beast pulling a trailer. Almost half of the 11k on it now are with a 40' 5th wheel toy hauler behind it - actually just got back this weekend from a 3000 mile trip around the western US.

If you're going to tow regularly or spend time in the mountains with it, IMO diesel is the way to go. 3/4 ton is fine for the trailer you described, but figure out what sort of trailer type/features you want first and then buy the truck to pull it. At least with Fords the 250 and 350 are the same truck with some added weight capacity on the 350 (larger axles, sits 2" higher in the rear, overload spring, different badge), otherwise will ride/drive exactly the same. Where I'm going with this is if you are borderline on a 3/4 ton, or think an even larger trailer is in your future during your ownership of this potential truck, get a 1-ton and just be done with it.

Lastly if you're contemplating a new truck or couple years old, give the 2012+ F-series serious consideration. There were some upgrades from the 2011 in 2012, so if you're going 6.7L aim for that MY or higher. If you're looking older then don't test drive a new one, because you will wind up spending more money than you planned on - they really are that good.

[asp_125]

Well.. the shopping has moved upmarket to a 31 footer, 12000 lbs dry. Guess we're looking at the serious haulers, 3/4 or 1 ton dually.

[#1Townie]

That's a good size trailer.

[rforsythe]

31'/12k you don't necessarily need a dually; mine is SRW and would handle that trailer just fine. Whether you can go 3/4 ton will depend on the truck and whether that's bumper pull (about 10% of trailer weight on the tongue) or 5th wheel (about 20% on the kingpin). The payload capacity of the truck will factor in more than tow capacity, since that's still within the trailer pull capacity of most 3/4 or 1-ton pickups, at least assuming diesel engine. If you go gas you will likely have a lower tow rating, payload is probably going to be about the same.

What specific trailer (make/model) are you considering?

[Kim-n-Dean]

What specific trailer (make/model) are you considering?He was thinking of the Ralph Forsythe Custom Special...

http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/KimnDeanToyHauler.jpg

[rforsythe]

:spit: Man I forgot all about that picture. :lol:

[FZRguy]

Assuming you don't need the haul truck for anything else, what is the good/bad of an RV?

[asp_125]

Assuming you don't need the haul truck for anything else, what is the good/bad of an RV?

That's just it, we want to park the rig somewhere and use the truck to explore or drive to town for groceries, etc. Beats trying to get a motorhome through side roads and mountain roads.

Good of an RV, you can pull a longer enclosed toy trailer = room for more bikes. Which is missing in a toy hauler with only a 10ft garage.

We're looking at a double slide, 31ft Raptor 5th wheel with the 10ft garage. Looking at the RAM 2500 Cummins it looks like it has the balls to pull that kind of weight.

[Kristian]

Like Ralph said, the trailer weight is probably not the issue, the pin weight is.

Toyhaulers are front heavy to counter the toys in the back. Also, they are usually built on a thicker frame.

Take the pin weight plus 2-300 lbs for the actual hitch and stuff in the bed and compare to the specs on the truck you are considering.

[asp_125]

Payload is approx 2700 for trailer, 300 for hitch, say another 500 for people and gear.. over 3500 lbs - so yeah, thinking even a 3/4 ton isn't enough.
Man these luxury toy haulers are heavy!

[Kim-n-Dean]

Payload is approx 2700 for trailer, 300 for hitch, say another 500 for people and gear.. over 3500 lbs - so yeah, thinking even a 3/4 ton isn't enough.
Man these luxury toy haulers are heavy!That's why I got such a small ToyHauler. I had to keep it under a certain length, so I wouldn't be over with the boat. No slides, so it wouldn't be over weight with the boat. And, it had to fit in my driveway. Mine is 30' long and 11,000# empty and can carry an additional 3,500#. 3,000# on the pin. If I remember right, I'm 500# overweight on the truck rating and four inches over the legal length for double towing. Don't tell anyone!!!!!

[rybo]

That's why I got such a small ToyHauler. I had to keep it under a certain length, so I wouldn't be over with the boat. No slides, so it wouldn't be over weight with the boat. And, it had to fit in my driveway. Mine is 30' long and 11,000# empty and can carry an additional 3,500#. 3,000# on the pin. If I remember right, I'm 500# overweight on the truck rating and four inches over the legal length for double towing. Don't tell anyone!!!!!

Always pushing the limits...

[FZRguy]

Sure, I see the convenience of having the truck for general transpo. I plan to have at least one motorcycle and two bicycles in the back, so no real need for additional local transpo. This is my retirement plan and I will be living in it full time.

[rybo]

Sure, I see the convenience of having the truck for general transpo. I plan to have at least one motorcycle and two bicycles in the back, so no real need for additional local transpo. This is my retirement plan and I will be living in it full time.

John,

One of the advantages a trailer often has over the motorhome counterpart is tank capacities. The toy hauler motorhomes I've seen "fun mover" class C types often have fresh water capacity around 30 gallons, where the trailers like Jeff is considering have tanks nearer 100 gallons. This can greatly extend your stay time in a place that doesn't have water that is easily accessible.

[FZRguy]

Okay, good point Scott. I've done zero research since retirement is way off....unfortunately.

[Kim-n-Dean]

John,

One of the advantages a trailer often has over the motorhome counterpart is tank capacities. The toy hauler motorhomes I've seen "fun mover" class C types often have fresh water capacity around 30 gallons, where the trailers like Jeff is considering have tanks nearer 100 gallons. This can greatly extend your stay time in a place that doesn't have water that is easily accessible.
We've made it five days with this setup, two of us:
126gal fresh
45gal grey
45gal black
30gal fuel for toys & generator

[#1Townie]

That's why I got such a small ToyHauler. I had to keep it under a certain length, so I wouldn't be over with the boat. No slides, so it wouldn't be over weight with the boat. And, it had to fit in my driveway. Mine is 30' long and 11,000# empty and can carry an additional 3,500#. 3,000# on the pin. If I remember right, I'm 500# overweight on the truck rating and four inches over the legal length for double towing. Don't tell anyone!!!!!

Man you are asking for trouble. Would be a shity day if dot nailed you. I'm sure the few inches would slide but the weight..... can't you figure out a way to remove some of that? Well actually let me ask this. Are you over the actual truck weight or the rear axle weight?

[Kim-n-Dean]

Man you are asking for trouble. Would be a shity day if dot nailed you. I'm sure the few inches would slide but the weight..... can't you figure out a way to remove some of that? Well actually let me ask this. Are you over the actual truck weight or the rear axle weight?The company that fabed the hitch for the RV said that they only care when you wreck it. I've seen tons of forty-foot 5th wheels with twenty-four foot pontoon boats on the back. Always wondered how they got away with it.

Total GVW

[#1Townie]

What they told you is false.... well kind of. Used to be that way but they are starting to crack down because of fatalities. Just so you know not only do you face a fine but they won't let you move until you are under.

[rforsythe]

I know CHP (Cali) has started pulling over light truck / 5th wheel combos they think might be over gross or length, taking you to a weigh station and making you prove you're legit. Pushing it a little bit is one thing, but some people were being so blatant about it that the cops have started to take note. I haven't heard about CSP doing it here, but I think it's a matter of time really.

[~Barn~]

:lol: I'm just glad that nobody is going around willy-nilly, admitting it. You know... egging on the authorities, so-to-speak.










;)

[rforsythe]

:lol: I'm just glad that nobody is going around willy-nilly, admitting it. You know... egging on the authorities, so-to-speak.


Right? It'd be even worse if they were posting pictures of their rig on a public forum... :lol:

[Kim-n-Dean]

Right? It'd be even worse if they were posting pictures of their rig on a public forum... :lol:
So, I probably shouldn't mention that I always have a joint in my hand and a beer in the cup holder while dragging that thing down the road.

Since some seemed concerned, I dug up my paper work and I'm actually 100# underweight. Still 4"over length, buy I knew that was correct. Sold the boat, so it doesn't matter anymore, anyway...

[~Barn~]

Ralph may not be up on current affairs.

[#1Townie]

Ralph may not be up on current affairs.

I see what you're doing there.


And Ralph its not just state patrol you have to watch out for. Its also the sneaky bastards in white vans with mobile scales. Also they are starting to make it so you need a cdl for diesel pushers for the airbrakes. That I agree with.

[longrider]

Also they are starting to make it so you need a cdl for diesel pushers for the airbrakes. That I agree with.

I am glad to hear that too and I honestly hope they go further. As a former commercial driver it always bothered me to see what RVers could get away with on just a class C. I am not saying a full on CDL test but once you get beyond say a 25' RV or a single trailer you should have to show you are qualified to drive it.

[#1Townie]

I am glad to hear that too and I honestly hope they go further. As a former commercial driver it always bothered me to see what RVers could get away with on just a class C. I am not saying a full on CDL test but once you get beyond say a 25' RV or a single trailer you should have to show you are qualified to drive it.

Agreed 100%.

[rforsythe]

I am glad to hear that too and I honestly hope they go further. As a former commercial driver it always bothered me to see what RVers could get away with on just a class C. I am not saying a full on CDL test but once you get beyond say a 25' RV or a single trailer you should have to show you are qualified to drive it.

Yeah, there is some dumbassery that goes on with inexperienced/unqualified drivers for sure. As for towing in general, I've noticed that bigger trailers don't necessarily create the problem for people, they just compound pre-existing knowledge gaps. I wish there were some basic level of knowledge required first, even just a written test (but a quick verification that they can actually hook up a hitch properly wouldn't be bad) that would cover the gotta-know-it stuff. I've lost count of the people I've talked to that didn't know to check tire pressures, do a walk-around, verify safety devices are actually connected, verify the hitch is actually connected and locked, brake controller working and set right, etc. The biggest one I see is the weight distribution, get that wrong and the tail will be wagging the dog at 70mph.

A simple one page DMV exam and a cheap endorsement would just about cover it. Not that I'm into paying more f'n gov't fees, but there are a lot of stupid things that happen where this might make a difference.

As for RV vs CDL, I thought past a certain size you needed one. Guess not?

[rforsythe]

So, I probably shouldn't mention that I always have a joint in my hand and a beer in the cup holder while dragging that thing down the road.

Since some seemed concerned, I dug up my paper work and I'm actually 100# underweight. Still 4"over length, buy I knew that was correct. Sold the boat, so it doesn't matter anymore, anyway...

I wasn't really concerned, just pointing out that they are starting to watch for the abusers on the road. Offer the cop a joint though, they love it. :D

And Barn, when am I ever up on current affairs? I can barely deal with my own shit, let alone everyone else's. :lol:

[longrider]

As for RV vs CDL, I thought past a certain size you needed one. Guess not?

There are limits but they are so high it is extreme. A motorhome can be 45' and with trailer you can be up to 70'. You can go up to 54000 GVW. CDL starts at 26000 GVW and there are endorsements on top of that. 2 trailers is an extra endorsement, more that 15 people is an extra endorsement, if you dont test with air brakes you are restricted from using them.

[#1Townie]

There are limits but they are so high it is extreme. A motorhome can be 45' and with trailer you can be up to 70'. You can go up to 54000 GVW. CDL starts at 26000 GVW and there are endorsements on top of that. 2 trailers is an extra endorsement, more that 15 people is an extra endorsement, if you dont test with air brakes you are restricted from using them.

Unless things changed in recent months Colorado does not require an airbrake endorsement for recreational vehicles. As for the motorhome and trailer the only restriction a person faces is 26000 pounds. As long as the combined weight is under that anyone with a basic license is good to go.