Choosing to repair or replace an engine

[birchyboy]

My Yukon has 167k on it and is running great overall. I've put a little into fixing oil leaks so far since I bought it 7 months ago but it's in need of more. I've got a front main seal leak that the shop says is going to be $1k to fix. My guess is that the rear main seal will start leaking pretty soon and will likely be that much or more. I like to think I'm handy, but I don't mess with repairs that involve fluids.


Let's say I'm looking at $2k in repairs to a 14 year old engine. A new long block from Jegs is $2k. How much of the existing engine can be moved over to a new long block without having to buy new? I know that new gaskets, etc need to be replaced, but I'm thinking things like the starter, intake, distributor, etc, keeping the motor as stock as possible (no performance headers, cams, etc).


This is taking the labor part of the swap out of the equation; just the parts that need to moved or purchased.

[Native]

let me start off by stating, I don't trust shops because I used to work at shops

$1k sounds REAL high
if you don't want to do any repairs, you'd be best served with a newer vehicle
if you're going to swap the engine, DIY because there will be items that need to be fabbed
Rule of Thumb, the shop will want to do the quickest, sloppiest job possible

[birchyboy]

let me start off by stating, I don't trust shops because I used to work at shops

$1k sounds REAL high
if you don't want to do any repairs, you'd be best served with a newer vehicle
if you're going to swap the engine, DIY because there will be items that need to be fabbed
Rule of Thumb, the shop will want to do the quickest, sloppiest job possible

I don't mind doing repairs, but I want to maximize the value of my money. If I'm looking at $2k in repairs for oil seals, then I think it's good to look at putting a new engine in instead of having to spend another $1k for something else in a few months and still have a 14 year old engine.

And yeah, I'd probably do the swap in my garage with a good friend helping me. That's what I'm looking for, is insight into what might need to be fabbed or purchased new instead of swapping old to new. I'd be going with a replacement that is a direct fit (Vortec 5700 to Vortec 5700), not going to a bigger motor or newer style (Vortec 5300).

[Native]

replacing the front mail seal: 1. pull balancer, 2. pull seal, 3. replace seal, balancer, 4. recommend using a NEW balancer ~ $150 (less balancer)
rear main seal: 1. drop the oil pan, 2. remove crank journal, 3. use the tool to remove and pull new seal, 4. reassemble ~ $200

Jegs long block: these are typically pretty generic; possibly drill and tap holes, locate diff part at junkyard, purchase some expense part cause old one doesn't fit; shop will charge a FORTUNE. you might have trouble with manifolds, brackets, oil pan, etc.

[Native]

you'd love a new engine in that thing, at the same time you'd LOVE a newer vehicle. try the 2006 & up grand Cherokee w/5.7

[birchyboy]

replacing the front mail seal: 1. pull balancer, 2. pull seal, 3. replace seal, balancer, 4. recommend using a NEW balancer ~ $150 (less balancer)
rear main seal: 1. drop the oil pan, 2. remove crank journal, 3. use the tool to remove and pull new seal, 4. reassemble ~ $200

Jegs long block: these are typically pretty generic; possibly drill and tap holes, locate diff part at junkyard, purchase some expense part cause old one doesn't fit; shop will charge a FORTUNE. you might have trouble with manifolds, brackets, oil pan, etc.

Do you have a link to the service manual that you're referencing?

[Native]

lol, what?

[birchyboy]

lol, what?

Thought you were getting the repair order for the rear main seal from a book.

[Native]

it's different than bikes, car manuals are worthless, especially for engine swaps

[Native]

just take it apart, remember how you did it, put it back together; done a lot of them

[rockerphotographer]

Take pictures of everything before you tear it down. Labels help too. It'll take a while to do so it'll all useful for re-install.

[#1Townie]

Whoa what the hell? Fabrication for a swap? Maybe if you are a crack head. There should be no fabrication when just doing a simple swap. Its the same motor.

I actually can't even get started on all the crap in this thread. I have too worked in shops. I have done plenty of swaps and the only time there was ever any fabing was when we were putting a larger motor into a car. In other words not the same motor we pulled out.

Birch it all comes down to money. What will be cheaper in the long run. Sure you might get the seals done for 2k but then you might have other issues. But my experience with leaks on gm vehicles..... once it starts you don't ever truly fix it. So you could get stuck with a minor leak still and have to keep taking it back. That's a sometimes. Rare. But it does happen.

So if the cost of the new or rebuilt block is the same I would just go for that. Take away a ton of the later what its.

[Native]

Whoa what the hell? Fabrication for a swap? Maybe if you are a crack head. There should be no fabrication when just doing a simple swap. Its the same motor.

one of those people that spits out what he thinks should be the case. when it's not, it will be someone else's fault, the shop, or the engine, or whatever

[#1Townie]

Dahfuq? Ohhhh I think I get it. I don't know how to do a simple swap. Check.

[TinkerinWstuff]

How long do you really expect to keep it and what is it realistically worth when you're done?

A long block isn't really gonna add that much value to the vehicle two years from now and you have a lot of pricey suspension components about due for replacement.

$2000 for some seals is only .13cents/mile if you get another 15,000 out of it.

[birchyboy]

How long do you really expect to keep it and what is it realistically worth when you're done?

A long block isn't really gonna add that much value to the vehicle two years from now and you have a lot of pricey suspension components about due for replacement.

$2000 for some seals is only .13cents/mile if you get another 15,000 out of it.

That's a great question. I tend to keep vehicles 6-7 years and just bought this one last July. I'm sure it won't add tons of value, but it would likely be a good selling point instead of saying I replaced both seals.
I keep up with the maintenance and had the transmission flushed, differential fluids and transfer case changed in December. Prior to that it was a $600 wiring harness and last month it was $1,300 for multiple leaks (oil sending unit, oil filter adapter, oil cooler lines and both front axle seals). They're all maintenance items, as is the front main seal, so I'm not complaining, just looking for feedback on a possibly spending my money a bit differently.

[Aaron]

I can't believe I am typing this, but I agree with Townie. Take everything Native said and disregard it, it's blatantly ignorant and incorrect. Although $1000 for a front main seal is really high.

Your Yukon likely has the 5.7 Vortec, correct me if I'm wrong. The front main seal is not as simple as Native stated, it is a fairly involved repair, and main seals can be a very temperamental repair. They are very much so prone to leaking, and I'd recommend replacing the oil pan gasket at the same time. That being said, they're certainly not impossible to replace, in a day or two, without ever having another problem. I'm not sure why he'd suggest replacing the balancer, that's not a failure part. It's a hunk of metal that spins, and will continue to spin just fine unless it's been damaged. However if you feel like replacing it, feel free, they are $40 and you're taking it off anyway. But at that point you should probably replace every bolt on the truck and the hood also.

If I were you, I'd send me a PM, and I'll do the front main seal for half what the shop quotes you. And I'd pick that route. The small block Chevy is a very durable and reliable motor, and the newer generations likw yours (1994-ish and up) actually seal pretty well. Or, if the leak isn't bad, deal with the spots on your floor and make sure it never runs low.

If you want a rebuilt engine, any of the big name places can be trusted, and prices are all about the same. I recently did this for a friend's F150 (Ford 5.0). It is, like you said, a long block. You have to transfer over nearly everything off your old engine. It will come with new gaskets. You transfer over your oil pickup tube, oil pan, exhaust manifolds, everything that bolts to the engine block, and everything that bolts to the heads. Intake manifolds, fuel injectors, all front accessories, flexplate, starter, etc. I personally wouldn't replace most of these items, they haven't failed yet and are fairly easy to replace if they do end up failing. However, everything will transfer right over without modification. On the 5.0 I did, I had one bolt hole in which a liner was put into the head to accomodate a smaller bolt. I couldn't get the old liner out, so I just used the larger thread bolt. 60 cents was the extend of the "modification" needed. The rebuild facilities take great care in providing the same engine block your car was originally specced with.

My suggestion would be to have the front main seal and oil pan gasket replaced, and leave it at that. You've gotten 167k miles out of it, which is quite good, but those series trucks are known for going a long time trouble free, and I wouldn't be surprised if you got another 100k with minimal repair. My Dad's Silverado 1500 (5.7) went 271k before he sold it, and it was still running strong without any issues. Common problems for them are water pumps, fuel pumps, and the gauges go crazy.

[Native]

maybe just try doing that front seal yourself, no too hard maybe like a 3/10, 4/10 if it's a tricky one

[birchyboy]

Thanks everyone. It's a minor leak, not really enough yet to drip on the ground. It was found during the dye check from the other repairs. I'm going to keep driving it and will decide what to do when it's in need of repair. I'm going to check with a few other shops as well for a sanity check on the cost.

Thanks for the offer Aaron. I'll keep you in mind when I'm ready.

[Native]

I don't trust those dye checks either, lol

[Aaron]

maybe just try doing that front seal yourself, no too hard maybe like a 3/10, 4/10 if it's a tricky one
Under 30 minutes? Let me detail the process for you, adding the steps you ignored.

Remove belt, external balancer, water pump, loosen oil pan (Reccomend replace oil pan gasket), crankshaft position sensor, and then the front cover. Re install is reverse, replacing water pump gasket as well. Shop price around $700 total.

[birchyboy]

Under 30 minutes? Let me detail the process for you, adding the steps you ignored.

Remove belt, external balancer, water pump, loosen oil pan (Reccomend replace oil pan gasket), crankshaft position sensor, and then the front cover. Re install is reverse, replacing water pump gasket as well. Shop price around $700 total.

I think he meant 3 out of 10 for difficulty.

[Native]

Under 30 minutes? Let me detail the process for you, adding the steps you ignored.

Remove belt, external balancer, water pump, loosen oil pan (Reccomend replace oil pan gasket), crankshaft position sensor, and then the front cover. Re install is reverse, replacing water pump gasket as well. Shop price around $700 total.

3 or 4 out of 10, I don't think it's very difficult, definitely no $500-$700. If it was me, I'd fix it myself and pocket about $650

[#1Townie]

Bro if its not even dripping there's no point in dealing with it. Just keep an eye on your fluid levels and make sure you don't have a oil slick on the ground.


Aaron want to rub nipples later??

[Native]

hey birchy, I think you'd best jank that engine, sounds like it's done for

[#1Townie]

hey birchy, I think you'd best jank that engine, sounds like it's done for

Hey, there can only be one townie.

[Native]

Hey, there can only be one townie.

don worry townie, I'm not gonna try for your crackhead callin spot

[Aaron]

3 or 4 out of 10, I don't think it's very difficult, definitely no $500-$700. If it was me, I'd fix it myself and pocket about $650
Difficult is relative. In that sense replacing the entire engine isn't difficult, just requires a lot of time, tools, and special equipment. Nothing on a car is more difficult than anything else, it's all nuts and bolts. Certain jobs just require more time, tools, and specialty equipment.

It would be easily accomplished in a day. But first, does he have the mechanical ability to do it himself? Next, does he have an entire day to devote to it? Does he have the tools needed? Aside from a wide assortment of hand tools, he'll need a clutch fan wrench set, and a balancer puller. Lastly, being winter in Colorado, does he have a heated garage? And lastly, maybe he makes enough money that it's simply not worth the headache of dealing with it and getting dirty, he'd rather pay someone. I'm with you, I do everything to my cars myself, but it's a special skill not everyone has.

I called two shops and got two estimates, both sitting right around $700. That seems high to you, but think of it this way. The shop has to cover the expenses of having a garage tied up for at least a half day, all of the equipment and utilities needed, the labor, and all of their miscellaneous fees. I worked flat rate before, and expenses rack up quick on relatively easy jobs, that's the nature of the beast. I think $700 is a bit high, but labor is sitting right at $100/hr now.

[birchyboy]

Bro if its not even dripping there's no point in dealing with it. Just keep an eye on your fluid levels and make sure you don't have a oil slick on the ground.


Aaron want to rub nipples later??

It's leaking, just not enough yet to hit the ground when it isn't running. Just trying to figure out the best option when it does become bad enough to fix, like the other leaks.

[#1Townie]

It's leaking, just not enough yet to hit the ground when it isn't running. Just trying to figure out the best option when it does become bad enough to fix, like the other leaks.

Buy a lambo.

[birchyboy]

Buy a lambo.

Another?

[#1Townie]

Dude you need a different color each day of the week.

[Native]

get a lotus esprit, then you'll have an oil spitting champ

[TinkerinWstuff]

I about had myself talked into a crate motor on my Honda Civic. 220k miles and needed a head gasket. With the high miles I did the whole "what if this and what if that" scenario. Finally decided $500 in a head gasket with associated machining and parts (rest of the labor myself) equated to .025cents/mile if I only get 20,000 more miles out of the vehicle.

Seemed like a no brainier at that point to go cheap and I'm not one to go cheap often.

I bought the car used and have racked up 150k of those miles. The total cost when amortizing the cost of acquisition, all cost of operation/maintenance (insurance, tires, registration, etc..), and using an average price for fuel, has put me at about .22cents/mile. I was down to .19cents before the headgasket, and struts all the way around.