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View Full Version : Updating my turbo Fiero for track duty



Aaron
Sun Aug 24th, 2014, 11:58 AM
I've got an 88 Fiero GT. Swapped a 3.4l DOHC V6 in, and built a custom turbo kit. Put down 417whp/427wtq at 8.7psi. I lost interest in the car, but recently gained it back. I'm hoping to take it to HPR in late September, but I've got a few things to fix before then.

Oil leaks
Fuel issues
PCV/Breather
Brake Fluid
Intercooler

First is the vapor lock fuel issues. Pretty much I can't do more than 40 miles before it'll vapor lock. Now at the track I'll use a lot more fuel, which will keep temps down, but the motor will also run a lot hotter, so under decklid temps will be high. Plus I'll run the tank low.

After doing a lot of research, I've found the Walbro 255 pump like I'm using is very problematic. They're loud, heat up the fuel, have short life spans, and are some $40 more expensive. The stock Fiero never had a problem vapor locking, and although my engine bay runs quite a bit warmer, my fuel lines are routed very nicely, and away from seriously hot things. The only explanation is the Walbro pump. Today I ordered a replacement pump, an AC Delco EP381. It's a drop in, and was OEM on the big block trucks. Should flow plenty for my application, plus run cool and for a long time. Yay for Amazon Prime too.

I went to the junkyard the other day and picked up an oil cooler to use on fuel return. Lines run direct to the passenger side, and away from any significant heat source. Other than that everything is stock. I'm thinking on the highway (Where it happens), I'm using so little fuel, and the pump is flowing so much, that it circulates too much fuel, and the fuel doesn't spend enough time in the pump to cool before it is run through the motor again. Who knows, but a friend of mine thinks this will solve all my issues.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/image_zps32c98789.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/image_zps32c98789.jpg.html)

Aaron
Sun Aug 24th, 2014, 03:40 PM
Time to drop the tank, which is much the same as a standard Fiero job on my car. Just need to move the intercooler lines and drain the tank first. So I checked my ALDL cable, and it's only got two wires, a blue and orange. Who the fuck wired this car? What is blue for? I assume orange is my fuel pump relay trigger, but I thought I left those all tan...?


And why isn't there a ground on the ALDL? Or a 12v supply? I need to hire a better automotive electrical engineer next time, because the cop I hired clearly doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

Aaron
Mon Aug 25th, 2014, 02:23 AM
Black wire is ground. Middle Red wire is dumb, but doesn't do anything bad or good when given 12v, so fuel gauge. Yellow wire is pump power. Hooked those up and drained the tank.


Also tested my intercooler, since day one I've had doubts on whether it actually flowed water. It does. A lot.


Looks like I have oil and trans gear oil leaks. Oil leaks all seem to be pan related, which is good. I can't tell where the trans is leaking from yet.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/image_zps28ef3630.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/image_zps28ef3630.jpg.html)

One-ops
Mon Aug 25th, 2014, 08:32 AM
Fuuuunnnnnn !

konichd
Mon Aug 25th, 2014, 10:46 AM
On that 3.4L I'd go over the timing belt and pully system. I'd hate to see that go at a track day as thats a big issue on those motors.

Are you sure its a VL issue? The coils are another issue on these since they're on the side right by the exhaust.

Aaron
Mon Aug 25th, 2014, 11:29 AM
Konichd, I'm impressed, most people don't know anything about these motors. They are kind of a bastard step child that GM dreamed up. Hey let's take an OHV block, and put DOHC heads on it. What about the cam in the center? Ahh just leave it! What about the distributor port? Ahh just leave it!

T-belt is good, I inspected it. It has less than 10,000 miles on it and has been stored in a garage. They're rated to 60,000 miles, but mine does have like 6-7 years on it now.

The coils were relocated, they now reside near the front valve cover up top.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Black%20Fiero/Update15.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Black%20Fiero/Update15.jpg.html)

I'm pretty sure it's VL. Only happens on warm days, and after 30-40 miles of casual highway driving. Car will sputter and die just like it ran out of gas (Although it has plenty). If I wait 15 minutes it'll restart and run good, for 5 minutes, then it'll sputter and die out again. Once I had my sister bring me 6 gallons of fresh (cool) gas, and the car started back up immediately and made it the last 20 miles of my trip. Motor never threw any check engine codes when this happened. I'm thinking the high flow fuel pump, that's been known to heat the fuel quite a bit, and on highway drives it's just running the majority of the fuel in a circle since I'm not using much. Add to it that the Fiero has very short fuel lines that don't get any airflow, and that the return back into the tank dumps right near the pickup, and it's a pretty poorly designed system overall. I'm going to put in an OEM pump, add a fuel cooler to the return side, and aim the return line away from the pickup a bit.

On a side note, I think I found my battery drain. When I went to trigger the fuel pump relay, I couldn't find a 12v source, but there should have been one near the ALDL pin for the cigarette lighter, but I deleted that and don't know where the wire went. Now that I rethink it, I think I might have used the 12v source from the lighter to power my piggyback ECU. Well this isn't 12v ign, it's 12v all the time. I'll check it tomorrow maybe. Also I believe the orange wire on my ALDL T'ed with the oil pressure sending unit. That's a 0-5v sender/sensor, and would explain why 12v didn't do anything, and why it had 4ish volts with ign.

konichd
Mon Aug 25th, 2014, 12:26 PM
I had a 94 cutlass convertible with this horseshit motor. :) Took a 3.1, tossed on some shit heads and made it public. Then added 2 more cylinders and tossed it in the Olds Aurora/Northstars.

They are a popular Fiero swap though and it looks like you did it right. I always looked at that motor and said WTF?????? :lol:

I always wanted to swap a 3800 Supercharged and sell the 3.4L to a Fiero lover. I always wondered why the Fiero guys didn't do this? :dunno:

Aaron
Tue Aug 26th, 2014, 02:52 AM
The motor has its downfalls for sure, but it can be a great engine. Great power, they sound phenomenal, and they LOVE boost. The supercharged 3800 is actually the most popular swap nowadays. Having driven a few, I wasn't impressed. I'm not a fan of it at all.

I wouldn't say shit heads, the heads themselves are to this day some of the best GM has ever put out. And the 3.4 and N* have pretty much nothing in common, the N* was a clean sheet dedicated DOHC design.

Generic
Tue Aug 26th, 2014, 02:43 PM
The motor has its downfalls for sure, but it can be a great engine. Great power, they sound phenomenal, and they LOVE boost. The supercharged 3800 is actually the most popular swap nowadays. Having driven a few, I wasn't impressed. I'm not a fan of it at all.

I wouldn't say shit heads, the heads themselves are to this day some of the best GM has ever put out. And the 3.4 and N* have pretty much nothing in common, the N* was a clean sheet dedicated DOHC design.

The 3800 Series II is a great motor for 0~75, after that they just drop off. Port the heads, blower, intercooler and they still just dog at upper RPMs. I had a modified Grand Prix GTP 15 years ago that I tore up Bandimere with.

Aaron
Sat Sep 6th, 2014, 04:37 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140906_162548_zps4b3773ec.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140906_162548_zps4b3773ec.jpg.html)

Aaron
Sun Sep 7th, 2014, 02:39 AM
Didn't really find anything unexpected. I have a very minor oil leak from the oil drain at the turbo. It's minor, not causing any problems, but I'll address it. Wiring needs to be cleaned up in a few places. Other than that just dirty. I'm thinking the motor is sealed, that my clutch slip is caused by the getrag being a leaker. Car made the 60 mile trip today without issue, drove really well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/20140906_231958_zps851a0b78.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/20140906_231958_zps851a0b78.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/20140906_232004_zps0d515187.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/20140906_232004_zps0d515187.jpg.html)

Aaron
Mon Sep 8th, 2014, 11:43 AM
Ha. Forgot to add the rest of the pics. The brown color on the inside of the first two pics is dust, it removed with my fingers.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144658_zpsf254b3b6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144658_zpsf254b3b6.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144722_zps88340eeb.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144722_zps88340eeb.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144728_zps5b5c120b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144728_zps5b5c120b.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144742_zpsa8ef3bf0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144742_zpsa8ef3bf0.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144745_zps05ec89b0.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144745_zps05ec89b0.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144748_zpsb43620a3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_144748_zpsb43620a3.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_145315_zps1f242bd3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_145315_zps1f242bd3.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_145325_zps6517db50.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140907_145325_zps6517db50.jpg.html)

Aaron
Mon Sep 8th, 2014, 02:24 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/20140908_134120_zps3c906576.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/20140908_134120_zps3c906576.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/20140908_134108_zpsb52b328b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/20140908_134108_zpsb52b328b.jpg.html)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/20140908_134056_zpsc77ae65e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/20140908_134056_zpsc77ae65e.jpg.html)

Aaron
Mon Sep 15th, 2014, 12:35 PM
Not much news, I got the TOB, clutch master, and flywheel friction plate in. I installed those, now just waiting on the clutch. Flywheel looked good from the naked eye, just going to install it with lock washers and a heavy dose of locktite. Also added a connector for my piggyback, as every time I've neededicated to pull the motor I've had to cut the wires. Now I can just disconnect it.

Aaron
Sun Sep 21st, 2014, 01:49 AM
Got everything wrapped up and ready to install tonight, along with the Bully Stage 4 clutch. Motor goes back in tomorrow!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/AaronZ34/Mobile%20Uploads/20140921_010545_zps3db2ca86.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AaronZ34/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140921_010545_zps3db2ca86.jpg.html)

Aaron
Mon Sep 22nd, 2014, 10:18 PM
Not like anyone is reading this but I got it running today. Started right up but it's not running quite right. Seems almost like the firing order is off. I checked the plug wires about 36 times however and they are correct. Tomorrow I'll diagnose it further.

blaircsf
Mon Sep 22nd, 2014, 11:30 PM
Not exactly my cup of tea, but looking good. Definitely a good sized project.

TFOGGuys
Tue Sep 23rd, 2014, 08:45 AM
Not like anyone is reading this but I got it running today. Started right up but it's not running quite right. Seems almost like the firing order is off. I checked the plug wires about 36 times however and they are correct. Tomorrow I'll diagnose it further.

Is the flux capacitor polarity correct?

Aaron
Tue Sep 23rd, 2014, 11:01 AM
It takes a special kind of connection to love a Fiero. You have to love the car for what it is knowing what it cannot ever be. Doesn't mean it can't have 500hp though!

Jim was right as usual. Well halfway. I had left a small ground cable disconnected. That made all the difference. Now just needs the brakes and coolant system bled.

Aaron
Tue Sep 23rd, 2014, 03:43 PM
How to fill a normal car with coolant: Open cap, start engine, fill engine, add as needed until warm, and done.

How to fill a Fiero: Jack up front of car, fill radiator, close cap, lower car, raise back of car, remove t-stat, full engine with coolant, install t-Stat and housing, remove cap, finish filling system, close cap, lower car, and done.

Aaron
Fri Sep 26th, 2014, 09:14 PM
I will eventually take this car to the track, but today was not the day, so I took the bike instead. A few issues with the car:

1) Ever since the original build it has done this. While cruising on the highway in 5th, if I go too far with the throttle to maintain speed, it'll dive rich, to the point that I can smell and feel the motor running poorly. I'm not sure what is happening, but it dives to 10-11:1 AFR. I have to completely let off the throttle for a couple of seconds, then slowly get back into it, but cannot go too far. Nearest I can tell it happens around 3 inHg, which is pretty easy to hit while cruising just trying to maintain speed up a hill. One possibility is that the my factory ECU is going into power enrichment, but it shouldn't be because my throttle percentage isn't that high (Maybe 60% max). Another is that the piggyback is kicking in. I have the maps set to do nothing until after boost comes on before they interrupt the MAF signal, but they don't have a sensor to know what ambient pressure is, I have to input that. This is an issue, but not as big of one yet. Just hurts MPG.

2) Ever since this rebuild, the car pegs rich on full throttle/boost. The only thing I changed was the fuel pump. It is possible my Walbro couldn't keep up and fuel pressure was dropping. It is also possible that my piggyback "lost" its maps while having a dead battery for a couple months and being unplugged for a couple weeks. But it shouldn't have. I recently legally acquired the software used to tune it (Can you believe the nazis charge for it now? Even if you already own their piggyback?). So here in a few minutes I'll try pulling the maps.

3) The brakes suck. Basically ended up doing a full fluid flush, replaced the master cylinder, and bled all 4 wheels several times. the pedal doesn't grab until the very bottom of the pedal travel, then it'll grab and I can get the brakes to lock, but it is at the floor when they do and the first 3/4 of the pedal travel does nothing but turn on the brake lights. If I pump the pedal the brakes pump up, and then the pedal feels 100% normal, but it'll lose that in just a little bit of driving and go back to going to the floor. I have no idea what is causing this. Possibly a leak, but I can't find any leaks, and once pumped up, the pedal will not "leak" down when at a stop with pressure applied.

TFOGGuys
Fri Sep 26th, 2014, 09:32 PM
I will eventually take this car to the track, but today was not the day, so I took the bike instead. A few issues with the car:

1) Ever since the original build it has done this. While cruising on the highway in 5th, if I go too far with the throttle to maintain speed, it'll dive rich, to the point that I can smell and feel the motor running poorly. I'm not sure what is happening, but it dives to 10-11:1 AFR. I have to completely let off the throttle for a couple of seconds, then slowly get back into it, but cannot go too far. Nearest I can tell it happens around 3 inHg, which is pretty easy to hit while cruising just trying to maintain speed up a hill. One possibility is that the my factory ECU is going into power enrichment, but it shouldn't be because my throttle percentage isn't that high (Maybe 60% max). Another is that the piggyback is kicking in. I have the maps set to do nothing until after boost comes on before they interrupt the MAF signal, but they don't have a sensor to know what ambient pressure is, I have to input that. This is an issue, but not as big of one yet. Just hurts MPG.

2) Ever since this rebuild, the car pegs rich on full throttle/boost. The only thing I changed was the fuel pump. It is possible my Walbro couldn't keep up and fuel pressure was dropping. It is also possible that my piggyback "lost" its maps while having a dead battery for a couple months and being unplugged for a couple weeks. But it shouldn't have. I recently legally acquired the software used to tune it (Can you believe the nazis charge for it now? Even if you already own their piggyback?). So here in a few minutes I'll try pulling the maps.

3) The brakes suck. Basically ended up doing a full fluid flush, replaced the master cylinder, and bled all 4 wheels several times. the pedal doesn't grab until the very bottom of the pedal travel, then it'll grab and I can get the brakes to lock, but it is at the floor when they do and the first 3/4 of the pedal travel does nothing but turn on the brake lights. If I pump the pedal the brakes pump up, and then the pedal feels 100% normal, but it'll lose that in just a little bit of driving and go back to going to the floor. I have no idea what is causing this. Possibly a leak, but I can't find any leaks, and once pumped up, the pedal will not "leak" down when at a stop with pressure applied.

I'd be willing to bet the fuelling issues are a result of having adequate fuel pressure where you didn't previously. Map tweaking will be needed. The brakes still have air somewhere in the system, power bleeding may be necessary to get it out.

Aaron
Fri Sep 26th, 2014, 09:41 PM
I'd be willing to bet the fuelling issues are a result of having adequate fuel pressure where you didn't previously. Map tweaking will be needed. The brakes still have air somewhere in the system, power bleeding may be necessary to get it out.
Welcome to TFOG, where the owner is awesome and has too much time on his hands, which results in replying to forum posts instantly. Thanks Jim!

Can you bleed power bleed car brakes? How much?

You're probably right about the fuel pressure, which makes me further hate Walbro pumps.

TFOGGuys
Fri Sep 26th, 2014, 09:57 PM
A big vacuum bleeder might work(like the one I use at the shop), or a pressure bleeder at a regular automotive shop is a better option.