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View Full Version : What should be done in Ferguson



Ezzzzy1
Fri Nov 14th, 2014, 02:19 PM
Im sure there arent all that many people keeping tabs on Ferguson Missouri, but ive keep an ear on it. It sounds like in the next few days the Grand Jury will present their findings and final determination on whether to the police officer involved did anything wrong. My assumption is that they will clear the cop of any wrong doing resulting in a large spree of craziness.

As if things couldnt get any crazier the KKK has put their $ in the race. Threatening deadly force. Article HERE (http://www.tpnn.com/2014/11/13/breaking-kkk-gets-involved-in-ferguson-threatens-deadly-force/)

Just wondering what anyone elses take on this is.

mdub
Fri Nov 14th, 2014, 03:48 PM
I don't think the cop will be getting off too easy..

Well then... Guess the National Guard should be preparing.

The cops are getting ready for the public and vice versa..

#1Townie
Fri Nov 14th, 2014, 03:49 PM
Yeah I have been watching. As for the guy the cop shot... Don't beat the shit out of a cop and you probably won't get shot. Just saying.

The riots that have taken place and even the response from the kkk could be a argument for people in this country are just fed up.

It has goten to a point that it isn't taking much to get people fired up.

They have their hands full with this one and I wouldn't be surprised if the grand jury sent him to trial just to spare the town.

Ezzzzy1
Fri Nov 14th, 2014, 04:32 PM
They have their hands full with this one and I wouldn't be surprised if the grand jury sent him to trial just to spare the town.

I was wondering the same but they would only be delaying the inevitable... The evidence thats been presented strongly supports the cop.

I couldnt imagine living there. Then again, I guess I would have already packed up the family and headed for the hills.

Its going to get pretty crazy if they dont try the cop and the KKK comes in....

#1Townie
Fri Nov 14th, 2014, 05:15 PM
Oh yeah that's an epic powderkeg just waiting to go boom.

Honestly I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the YouTube videos. Lol

JKOL
Fri Nov 14th, 2014, 08:58 PM
Based on the evidence the Fergusson cop is only guilty of being white and shooting a black guy.

The media loves the racial aspect and there are plenty if opportunist who pull the race card just to get their face on TV and name in the paper.

The mainstream media mentioned nothing about the white unarmed teen that was shot in Utah shortly after the Fergusson incident, the police actually went so far as to call the officer not white but didn't elaborate. It doesn't push the racial tension and support the notion that white cops are running around killing black people.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/3/justice-dillon-taylor-after-white-utah-man-fatally/

People of Fergusson and all those that travelled there to protest violently have nothing better to do. They will react violently to whatever Al Sharpton tells them to protest. I honestly think we are going backwards as far as race relations go which really is sad.

I remember reading one of the early media reports that mentioned residents complaining about not having job opportunities, and then they go and destroy the few businesses in their area. The irony is mind blowing.

j0ker
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 09:01 AM
In a town that is less than 30% white with only 3 out of 53 blacks on the police force.... yea. I am sure there wasn't any prejudiced action involved. For a black 18 year old to be shot while his hands were raised in submission by the "serve and protect" crew is far more ironic.

Fuck police that do not serve the public interests and abide by the same laws we do. (except for the posted speed limits, nobody pays attention to that)

Ezzzzy1
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 10:41 AM
There is a lot more to this than what you simply believe to be true Joker.... Even details as "small" as, they proved that the kids hands werent in the air and that his blood was in the cops car. This 18 year old was fighting with the cop, in the cops car, over the cops pistol.

Whats interesting to me is how no matter what the evidence says, people still form their own opinion of "what happened". So, they could say that the cop did noting wrong and that the kid provoked this whole situation and people will still riot and want "justice".

#1Townie
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 11:04 AM
And I'm sorry even IF things went down as some are saying he had already beat the shit out of the cop and was walking back at him. Hands in the air mean dick at that point.

I know some of you sheltered people find it hard to believe but just because he looks like he's surrendering doesn't mean he was.

I have seen many times guys act like they are giving up just to get close so they start the attack again.

Also the way he throws around that store clerk its clear he's no stranger to violence.

I fucking hate cops, but there is a time and place to fight them. In the middle of the street with fists isn't it. Its a sure way to get yourself shot. Period.

Fuck him.

Nolan
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 11:30 AM
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/guard/ch2.htm (ultra long)

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/09/14/achieving-diversity-among-police-ranks-not-easy/ (not as long)

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22118636/aurora-police-department-struggling-improve-minority-numbers (close to home)

Decades long of "fuck the police" attitude seems to be at least ONE reason there aren't more minority officers.
Seems to me that this (Ferguson) is a situation that has turned more into ratings, media, and politics than actual facts. Either way this plays out its going to affirm the negative attitudes we all have towards whatever side we put ourselves against.
IMHO

JKOL
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 06:05 PM
In a town that is less than 30% white with only 3 out of 53 blacks on the police force.... yea. I am sure there wasn't any prejudiced action involved. For a black 18 year old to be shot while his hands were raised in submission by the "serve and protect" crew is far more ironic.

Fuck police that do not serve the public interests and abide by the same laws we do. (except for the posted speed limits, nobody pays attention to that)

I love how that statistic is thrown around as if it proves anything. If you show me figures showing something like 7/10 applicants to police force were black but only 3/53 officers on the force are black, then you would have something. But my guess is the number of black applicants is closely reflected in the number of black officers they have.

j0ker
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 06:51 PM
You guys are funny. I'm just reading the news back to you. I'm not "form(ing) their own opinion of "what happened"" and I am far from sheltered. None of us were there and we all have to rely on the media to understand the situation. From what I can see; the town of Ferguson has a rapidly changing demographic from very recently almost 100% white to now predominately latino and black. The infrastructure support demographic hasn't caught up to the reality of their population shift. It also appears that there "may" or "MAY NOT" have been a struggle previously to the shooting. We sure as fuck do not KNOW. I sure hope the truth is found out, but I honestly can't prejudge this based on white and black and the assumptions that are being thrown around in here and else where.

Also, the arrest statistics do not lie... police target minorities. It should be the same for all of us or not at all.

AOK303
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 10:51 PM
You cant try to over take and beat a cop and as soon as you know he has control over his gun throw your hands up and expect that he will not shoot in self defense act.
you already passed that point. Not saying its right or wrong he died but if the officer was just a regular person, the grand jury would of already cleared him

j0ker
Sat Nov 15th, 2014, 11:41 PM
None of the news I am reading says ANYTHING about Brown grabbing the gun or being IN or ON a police car. Several eye witnesses also say that at NO POINT was there a fight or scuffle for the gun. The eye witnesses both confirmed that the LEO grabbed him by the neck at which point Brown threw his hands up and was promptly shot. There was a report released today that also confirms what I just stated.

Sounds like the LEO was a scared little bitch and shot an innocent unarmed boy.

#1Townie
Sun Nov 16th, 2014, 12:28 AM
Well you must not be reading much.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/authorities-say-michael-browns-blood-found-on-gun-inside-police-car/2014/10/18/577e1a9a-56f2-11e4-ba4b-f6333e2c0453_story.html

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/18/justice/michael-brown-darren-wilson-account/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/18/report-ferguson-officer-feared-for-his-life/17490653/


http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/10/19/report-michael-browns-blood-found-officer-darren-wilsons-gun-car-door

JKOL
Sun Nov 16th, 2014, 08:27 AM
Well you must not be reading much.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/authorities-say-michael-browns-blood-found-on-gun-inside-police-car/2014/10/18/577e1a9a-56f2-11e4-ba4b-f6333e2c0453_story.html

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/18/justice/michael-brown-darren-wilson-account/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/18/report-ferguson-officer-feared-for-his-life/17490653/


http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/10/19/report-michael-browns-blood-found-officer-darren-wilsons-gun-car-door


I am am with Townie. Joker you need to read up and then come back. All the points you are making sound like all you have read came from the initial reports that were all knee jerk without any facts actually checked. Instead of trusting the media to tell the facts and not just create the story they want to tell, read what the forensic evidence shows.



None of the news I am reading says ANYTHING about Brown grabbing the gun or being IN or ON a police car. Several eye witnesses also say that at NO POINT was there a fight or scuffle for the gun. The eye witnesses both confirmed that the LEO grabbed him by the neck at which point Brown threw his hands up and was promptly shot. There was a report released today that also confirms what I just stated.

Sounds like the LEO was a scared little bitch and shot an innocent unarmed boy.

Did you miss where "innocent unarmed" Michael brown robbed and assaulted a convenience store clerk earlier in the day? I would be willing to bet this wasn't his first assault or robbery, you don't just wake up and say today I am going to assault a guy to get some swisher sweets.

The Black Knight
Sun Nov 16th, 2014, 09:56 AM
None of the news I am reading says ANYTHING about Brown grabbing the gun or being IN or ON a police car. Several eye witnesses also say that at NO POINT was there a fight or scuffle for the gun. The eye witnesses both confirmed that the LEO grabbed him by the neck at which point Brown threw his hands up and was promptly shot. There was a report released today that also confirms what I just stated.

Sounds like the LEO was a scared little bitch and shot an innocent unarmed boy.

Really?? you must be reading some whack news reports. Because not long after this all transpired it was widely reported(not only in the links that Townie provided) in many news outlets either on-line or TV media of what exactly went down.

It's commonly known that not only did they get into a fight but that Brown actually went for the officer's gun while he was still inside his police cruiser.

But just to give you an idea of what kind of person Michael Brown was, here's a rough idea of the laws he broke on just this day when he was shot.

1. Assault on Police Officer
2. Assault on an "at risk adult" at the convenience store(this at risk adult was the store owner).
3. Robbery(whether or not it was armed robbery time will tell)
4. Photos have surfaced of Brown smoking pot and posing in pictures "gangsta style" throwing up signs earlier in the day. So he's 18 and smoking pot illegally in a state that has not legalized it.

Yeah sounds to me like Michael Brown was a portrait of what a model citizen should be.

So right there are four laws he broke just on that day alone. No telling what others he's broken in the past. Because let's face it, if he's willing to break those kinds of laws, I'm willing to guarantee that he broke laws all the time in the past. He was a thug and lived the thug lifestyle, plain and simple.


So you say, "Sounds like the LEO was a scared little bitch and shot an innocent unarmed boy."

I say, sounds to me like the boy had it coming and the cop was just doing his job. The kid deserved what he got, a pine box....




Also, the arrest statistics do not lie... police target minorities. It should be the same for all of us or not at all.

You don't get arrested if you're not breaking the law. The reason why more minorities are incarcerated is because they break more laws. And before you even come at me with that tired argument of, "you can't say that minorities break the law and that's being racist." Know this, I am a minority. I have several family members that are former law enforcement. You know what they tell me?? Minorities break the majority of the laws.



Here's an idea. Don't want to go to jail, well then
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/stopbreakingthelaw_zps82717c88.jpg

laspariahs
Sun Nov 16th, 2014, 12:17 PM
You don't get arrested if you're not breaking the law.



You can't be this naive........ I guess we don't need judges then or courts or lawyers. Just cops and prisons.

The Black Knight
Sun Nov 16th, 2014, 12:23 PM
You can't be this naive........

I'm not but I will say, it's worked for me and millions of other citizens so far. I don't break the law, and guess what I've never been arrested. I've never even had a run in with Law Enforcement. You wanna know why? Because the few times I have been pulled over. I've been respectful, well spoken, clear and concise and don't come off with a chip on my shoulder to Law Enforcement. And I've been treated with the same respect that I've shown 99% of the time. I will say I did have a bad experience with a State Trooper years ago in Deckers but that wasn't just one isolated incident. In fact he had been burning motorcyclist that whole day and had been for sometime. In fact said State Trooper ended his own life about 5 years later in a stand off with his own colleagues. It was found out later that he was suffering some emotional and metal issues.

Yes we do need judges, courts and lawyers. It's all about due process. However,(taking the wrongfully accused out of the equation) the only reason you need due process when being accused of breaking the law(i.e. Murder, Rape, Robbery/Armed Robbery, Drugs, etc.) is because you broke the law.

laspariahs
Sun Nov 16th, 2014, 01:06 PM
I'm not but I will say, it's worked for me and millions of other citizens so far. I don't break the law, and guess what I've never been arrested. I've never even had a run in with Law Enforcement. You wanna know why? Because the few times I have been pulled over. I've been respectful, well spoken, clear and concise and don't come off with a chip on my shoulder to Law Enforcement. And I've been treated with the same respect that I've shown 99% of the time. I will say I did have a bad experience with a State Trooper years ago in Deckers but that wasn't just one isolated incident. In fact he had been burning motorcyclist that whole day and had been for sometime. In fact said State Trooper ended his own life about 5 years later in a stand off with his own colleagues. It was found out later that he was suffering some emotional and metal issues.

Yes we do need judges, courts and lawyers. It's all about due process. However,(taking the wrongfully accused out of the equation) the only reason you need due process when being accused of breaking the law(i.e. Murder, Rape, Robbery/Armed Robbery, Drugs, etc.) is because you broke the law.


Oh yes taking people who got arrested that didn't do anything out of the equation..... So do people get wrongfully accused, or don't they?

I've never had a run in with the cops either, but that doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to think that people don't, it happens every day, probably every hour at least of every day.

Drano
Sun Nov 16th, 2014, 10:10 PM
As far as I recall from my Civil Rights and Liberties class last year, the only statistic showing a racial bias against minorities involved sentencing and incarceration rates for individuals, white vs. minority, tried for a similar crime. In that case it showed that minorities had a 75% higher chance of being incarcerated than Caucasians and often carried stiffer penalties. In essence, it had nothing to do with an arresting officer's discretion and had more to do with judges and juries.

By no means am I even going to attempt to make claims about detention and arrest ratios of whites vs. minorities as it seems to differ from source to source.

There has been some arguments made that despite the fact that African-American minorities represent ~30% of the population they are disproportionately represented in prison inmate statistics. Often, some say that more African-Americans are imprisoned than Caucasians, but it's actually closer in proportions than one may realize. http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp

Conflicting information, I know.

Finally, it's also of note to recognize the difference between being detained, and being arrested. Police officers can choose to detain anyone if they have reasonable suspicion. They can arrest if they have probable cause. A good rule of thumb is this: If you're being read your Miranda rights, you're being arrested. If not, you're being detained.

Aaron
Mon Nov 17th, 2014, 03:30 PM
I'm quite happy to see overwhelmingly support for the Officer here. I realize that wouldn't be the case if the evidence didn't support the Officer and it was a "bad shoot," but I'm glad most of you guys can see from every bit of evidence we have the Officer was initially just trying to make his city a better place, and then forced to defend his own life.

Threads like this won't change anyone's opinions, but I'll answer any questions I can about Law Enforcement operations. I can almost guarantee you they are dramatically different than any of your current opinions and beliefs.

laspariahs
Mon Nov 17th, 2014, 03:49 PM
As far as I recall from my Civil Rights and Liberties class last year, the only statistic showing a racial bias against minorities involved sentencing and incarceration rates for individuals, white vs. minority, tried for a similar crime. In that case it showed that minorities had a 75% higher chance of being incarcerated than Caucasians and often carried stiffer penalties. In essence, it had nothing to do with an arresting officer's discretion and had more to do with judges and juries.

By no means am I even going to attempt to make claims about detention and arrest ratios of whites vs. minorities as it seems to differ from source to source.

There has been some arguments made that despite the fact that African-American minorities represent ~30% of the population they are disproportionately represented in prison inmate statistics. Often, some say that more African-Americans are imprisoned than Caucasians, but it's actually closer in proportions than one may realize. http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp

Conflicting information, I know.

It's not conflicting information all it means is whites commit more crime, but are less likely to go to jail for them. Unless your data is flawed.

07D675CO
Mon Nov 17th, 2014, 03:56 PM
At first everything you saw was pointing in one direction. That of a black teen gunned down by an officer. However lately the evidence appears to say something different. I can certainly understand the outrage earlier based on the known information at the time. Hopefully cool heads will prevail and look at the facts.

As for our current law enforcement and legal system. I do not believe I would receive the same treatment as a black male of the same age. The problem is not enough of them commit white collar crimes like Wall St. Then you can walk away with less than a slap on the wrist. But man you steal a $1,000 car and jail time buddy.

JKOL
Mon Nov 17th, 2014, 08:33 PM
At first everything you saw was pointing in one direction. That of a black teen gunned down by an officer. However lately the evidence appears to say something different. I can certainly understand the outrage earlier based on the known information at the time. Hopefully cool heads will prevail and look at the facts.

As for our current law enforcement and legal system. I do not believe I would receive the same treatment as a black male of the same age. The problem is not enough of them commit white collar crimes like Wall St. Then you can walk away with less than a slap on the wrist. But man you steal a $1,000 car and jail time buddy.

Only the media and Michael Browns friend who was a witness made it sound like the officer EXECUTED brown until the witness was proven to be lying and the media was forced by the evidence to report facts which they hate when it doesn't support the sensational story they want to tell to keep people watching.

As far as your comparison of white collar criminals vs stealing a car, take a look a the difference, HINT skin color isn't the important difference. MONEY is the difference. When you can afford $500+/hour lawyers, you can buy your way out of trouble. OJ, Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice, etc...... Those aren't white collar criminals, but everyone knows they are guilty of the crimes they are accused of, money is why they aren't in jail.

Ezzzzy1
Mon Nov 17th, 2014, 10:29 PM
Lots of good posts.

A few things that arent being shown on every news channel.


The governor declared a state of emergency today. HERE (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/missouri-governor-declares-state-of-emergency-ahead-of-ruling-on-ferguson-shooting/ar-BBejRhl)

Did anyone see the the stuff about the about "100 Department of Homeland Security vehicles in the parking garage" that were seen 25 miles SW of Ferguson? HERE (http://http.www.toprightnews.com/?p=7245)

And another note... They have established a no fly zone over Ferguson.

I dont like the conspiracy theory stuff but this whole things has the makings of a really bad outcome.

Aaron
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 08:33 AM
I don't think they are doing it as a conspiracy theory. That place is going to be a straight up full on riot zone here in a few weeks, and they're gearing up for it. Remember the LA riots? These are going to be just as bad, but at least here they know that in advance and can prepare accordingly.

So they aren't telling you what all is being done to prepare but that's normal. Government agencies rarely reveal their asset movements and manpower allotments. It isn't because they're doing conspiracy things, just that they aren't going to announce every time they send resources somewhere.

You know nothing about your local departments staffing. You just know upon needing them, they will eventually be there. My agency typically runs 12-20 cars on the street. I could tell you specifically what each does, where, and why, but it's really of little reason. When we have grants that allow us extra cars, or extra DUI enforcement, we use that and put more cars out, but we don't exactly run a front page column on it. That's a normal operation, shifting manpower and resources about.

07D675CO
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 09:25 AM
Only the media and Michael Browns friend who was a witness made it sound like the officer EXECUTED brown until the witness was proven to be lying and the media was forced by the evidence to report facts which they hate when it doesn't support the sensational story they want to tell to keep people watching.

As far as your comparison of white collar criminals vs stealing a car, take a look a the difference, HINT skin color isn't the important difference. MONEY is the difference. When you can afford $500+/hour lawyers, you can buy your way out of trouble. OJ, Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice, etc...... Those aren't white collar criminals, but everyone knows they are guilty of the crimes they are accused of, money is why they aren't in jail.

That is my point. If they committed white collar crime they would get away with it just like white people do. It is a combination of race and economics that creates the propensity for people of color to more likely end up in jail. It is also a cultural thing, see Barkley's etc articles on how the community tried to drag them down.

JKOL
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 10:04 AM
That is my point. If they committed white collar crime they would get away with it just like white people do. It is a combination of race and economics that creates the propensity for people of color to more likely end up in jail. It is also a cultural thing, see Barkley's etc articles on how the community tried to drag them down.

I gave you three example of rich black men that committed crimes arguably far worse than white collar crimes, and yet they still saw no jail time. The skin color or type of crime don't mater, having millions to spend on the best lawyers to keep your ass, whatever color it is, out of jail is the key factor. Black, white, brown, and yellow can all get away with crimes, the type of crime doesn't matter, money does. Drug cartels get away with anything they want because instead of committing white collar crimes so they can "get away with it just like white people do" they use their unlimited MONEY to just buy everyone, police, judge, politicians, towns, etc....

TFOGGuys
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 10:09 AM
Captain Obvious apparently works for the FBI...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-warns-ferguson-decision-lead-violence-extremist-protesters/story?id=26980624

07D675CO
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 10:23 AM
I gave you three example of rich black men that committed crimes arguably far worse than white collar crimes, and yet they still saw no jail time. The skin color or type of crime don't mater, having millions to spend on the best lawyers to keep your ass, whatever color it is, out of jail is the key factor. Black, white, brown, and yellow can all get away with crimes, the type of crime doesn't matter, money does. Drug cartels get away with anything they want because instead of committing white collar crimes so they can "get away with it just like white people do" they use their unlimited MONEY to just buy everyone, police, judge, politicians, towns, etc....

Arguably worse than the white collar crime I mentioned? Not even close. I don't disagree money will get you out time after time. So I'm not sure where we disagree.

JKOL
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 11:01 AM
Arguably worse than the white collar crime I mentioned? Not even close. I don't disagree money will get you out time after time. So I'm not sure where we disagree.

I didn't see a specific white collar crime you mentioned, but I find it hard to imagine it is worse than killing two people (OJ), punching a woman in the face knocking her out and then dropping her body on the floor (Ray Rice), or beating a toddler bloody with a stick all over his body including genitals (Adrian Peterson).

JKOL
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 11:06 AM
I don't think they are doing it as a conspiracy theory. That place is going to be a straight up full on riot zone here in a few weeks, and they're gearing up for it. Remember the LA riots? These are going to be just as bad, but at least here they know that in advance and can prepare accordingly.



I don't think you are wrong about the riots being worse than the LA riots. Regardless of the outcome, people they feel like there was an injustice and apparently the only way they know to react is by being violent and committing more crimes.

Ezzzzy1
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 12:35 PM
Whats another apples to apples comparison? Where a white guy did something questionable (at lease initially) and whites joined together mindlessly without caring about the facts and started shitting where they ate?

Im not asking to prove anything (though it may prove something), im asking because I cant think of a situation like that.

07D675CO
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 01:27 PM
Whats another apples to apples comparison? Where a white guy did something questionable (at lease initially) and whites joined together mindlessly without caring about the facts and started shitting where they ate?

Im not asking to prove anything (though it may prove something), im asking because I cant think of a situation like that.

No example can be apples to apples because we were never enslaved or had our constitutional rights infringed or taken away by another race. There is history and history is a powerful thing.

07D675CO
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 01:31 PM
I don't think you are wrong about the riots being worse than the LA riots. Regardless of the outcome, people they feel like there was an injustice and apparently the only way they know to react is by being violent and committing more crimes.

You are right I didn't get very specific with my wall st example. And there are a ton of examples so lets just say the 2008 crash that cost millions of people their jobs, homes, lives. I would say that is worse than murdering one or two people just on a level of human suffering. The thing is you are lumping them all together when not all of them are violent. Some react violently for many reasons.

bulldog
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 01:32 PM
You don't get arrested if you're not breaking the law. The reason why more minorities are incarcerated is because they break more laws. And before you even come at me with that tired argument of, "you can't say that minorities break the law and that's being racist." Know this, I am a minority. I have several family members that are former law enforcement. You know what they tell me?? Minorities break the majority of the laws.



Here's an idea. Don't want to go to jail, well then
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/stopbreakingthelaw_zps82717c88.jpg I am not on the up and up on the current situation, but this statement was funny to me. I believe in last 23 years they have PROVED that over 2,000 convictions were false...new evidence, new testimony, or new technology has cleared many people! So if you think innocent people do not get arrested then you are truly mistaken because if 2000 have been cleared imagine how many do not get that and are convicted or a false crime. They still estimate 2.3% to 5% of people in prison now are innocent. I wish it was true only the guilty go to prison, but this is not always true and has been proved over and over.

321 Post Convictions exoneration's from DNA alone since 1989 http://www.innocenceproject.org/know/
http://www.innocenceproject.org/img/ExonerationsByYear2013.gif



Twenty people had been sentenced to death before DNA proved their innocence and led to their release.

The average sentence served by DNA exonerees has been 13.6 years.

About 70 percent of those exonerated by DNA testing are people of color.

In almost 50 percent of DNA exoneration cases, the actual perpetrator has been identified by DNA testing.

Exonerations have been won in 38 states and Washington, D.C.

The Innocence Project was involved in 173 of the 321 DNA exonerations. Others were helped by Innocence Network organizations, private attorneys and by pro se defendants in a few instances.



Some links: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/21/11756575-researchers-more-than-2000-false-convictions-in-past-23-years?lite

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ronhuff.htm

http://www.thenation.com/article/168142/how-many-innocent-people-have-we-sent-prison

#1Townie
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 01:32 PM
No example can be apples to apples because we were never enslaved or had our constitutional rights infringed or taken away by another race. There is history and history is a powerful thing.

What in the flying fuck are you talking about? Dude white people were the first slaves in this fucking country!! Also they were cheaper. So being cheaper they were treated worse.

Get the fuck out of here. What about the Jews? Holy shit man there has never been another people so abused in history.

I'm sorry man you need to truly do some history.

#1Townie
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 01:37 PM
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

#1Townie
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 02:11 PM
http://americancivilwar.com/authors/black_slaveowners.htm

Ezzzzy1
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 03:37 PM
Alright then... How about an apples to oranges example? I dont think I have ever seen a situation where white people screw up and start blaming other people and even further demand justice for the outcome not being what they want.

I suppose if the KKK were to "stand up" in Ferguson it would be similar, but at the same time, not really.

Really, whats the point of standing up for whats "right" when you are not right?

07D675CO
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 03:50 PM
Alright then... How about an apples to oranges example? I dont think I have ever seen a situation where white people screw up and start blaming other people and even further demand justice for the outcome not being what they want.

I suppose if the KKK were to "stand up" in Ferguson it would be similar, but at the same time, not really.

Really, whats the point of standing up for whats "right" when you are not right?

I could go with the "they took our jobs" argument from mostly white people. Not quite the same but they blame their lack of having/finding a job on someone else not their lack of skills/education. I don't even know what to say about the KKK. A relic from a time past?

JKOL
Tue Nov 18th, 2014, 04:02 PM
Alright then... How about an apples to oranges example? I dont think I have ever seen a situation where white people screw up and start blaming other people and even further demand justice for the outcome not being what they want.

I suppose if the KKK were to "stand up" in Ferguson it would be similar, but at the same time, not really.

Really, whats the point of standing up for whats "right" when you are not right?

The old saying "two wrongs don't make a right" comes to mind with this.

Lets say that the facts supported the witness and the officer was wrong and shot an innocent man, would that mean protesting violently and looting is acceptable? It does nothing to help your cause, it only hurts your cause.

I just can't wrap my head around the mindset of people that completely ignore facts just because it doesn't support their own beliefs regardless of how distorted those beliefs are.

#1Townie
Wed Nov 19th, 2014, 10:07 AM
I could go with the "they took our jobs" argument from mostly white people. Not quite the same but they blame their lack of having/finding a job on someone else not their lack of skills/education. I don't even know what to say about the KKK. A relic from a time past?

Well you just need to stop. You are clearly watching too much CNN. You have so many incorrect statements in just a few posts its not even funny.

The finale statement about kkk being a relic of the past is very laughable.

bulldog
Wed Nov 19th, 2014, 02:32 PM
Well you just need to stop. You are clearly watching too much CNN. You have so many incorrect statements in just a few posts its not even funny.

The finale statement about kkk being a relic of the past is very laughable.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55289817.jpg

Seriously 07D675CO, Townie is making you look very uneducated ! :lol:

j0ker
Wed Nov 19th, 2014, 03:24 PM
Where is the +1 button?!

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55289817.jpg

Seriously 07D675CO, Townie is making you look very uneducated ! :lol:

#1Townie
Wed Nov 19th, 2014, 04:37 PM
I mean I truly hate this we have to feel bad for things that happened two hundred years before we were even born. Get the fuck out of here. That's bullshit.

Was it a bad thing? Yes. Yes it was. Did it happen long before america? Fuck yes. Slavery has been and is still a part of the world for as long as any record goes back.

Hell the term slave goes back for.. Well I don't know how far back it goes but I know it originates from the Slavic people. And guess what.... THEY ARE WHITE PEOPLE!!!

Slavery still happens in over in Africa and even the middle east. Right now women and children are being sold as slaves in iraq!! RIGHT NOW!! Well maybe not at this very second that I post but still.

No dude this guy wants to come on here and spill the same shit he watching on CNN and whatever brain dead so called news outlet.

This is the problem with our media. They are just filling minds with complete bullshit!! Trying to divide us even further.

And by us I mean Americans. White black brown or whatever. It is up to us to stand together to truly get the change we all want.

Its not going to come from the left or the right. It will come when we all meet in the middle.

JKOL
Wed Nov 19th, 2014, 08:25 PM
I mean I truly hate this we have to feel bad for things that happened two hundred years before we were even born. Get the fuck out of here. That's bullshit.

Was it a bad thing? Yes. Yes it was. Did it happen long before america? Fuck yes. Slavery has been and is still a part of the world for as long as any record goes back.

Hell the term slave goes back for.. Well I don't know how far back it goes but I know it originates from the Slavic people. And guess what.... THEY ARE WHITE PEOPLE!!!

Slavery still happens in over in Africa and even the middle east. Right now women and children are being sold as slaves in iraq!! RIGHT NOW!! Well maybe not at this very second that I post but still.

No dude this guy wants to come on here and spill the same shit he watching on CNN and whatever brain dead so called news outlet.

This is the problem with our media. They are just filling minds with complete bullshit!! Trying to divide us even further.

And by us I mean Americans. White black brown or whatever. It is up to us to stand together to truly get the change we all want.

Its not going to come from the left or the right. It will come when we all meet in the middle.

Very well said Townie. I couldn't agree more especially regarding the media and some politicians working hard to divide us. I think it just is a means to distract us while they continue to spend all of our money, trample the constitution, and give themselves more money and power.

It it never gets said, but I am glad you brought it up, because I am white I shouldn't have to feel guilty or apologize for slavery. It was an awful part of American history, but I had zero to do with it. I am a 3rd generation American, I haven't enslaved anyone and no one in the last few generations of my family owned any slaves either.

Ph03niX
Wed Nov 19th, 2014, 09:23 PM
I couldn't agree more Townie.
The one thing that makes me mad though, is how much people talk about this. There's so much worse shit going on elsewhere and everyone's still talking about this one mistake a cop may or may not have made. I could give two f***s about what's going on in Ferguson. If it's not affecting you or anyone you know, why worry about it or talk about it? (serious question)

Ezzzzy1
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 08:47 AM
(Serious answer) Because the bottom is about ready to fall out of Ferguson. Thats why we should worry about it.

That and there wasnt a mistake that was made on the side of the officer (or so the evidence says).

I agree with the "if its not affecting you..." mentality but there are a few nation wide topics worth paying attention to and discussing.

Ezzzzy1
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 08:52 AM
The "victim" mindset is what kills me. Anyone could come up with reasons to play the "poor me" card.... Anyone. Its sad when a large group essentially falls into the same mindset together.

The messed up thing about all of this is that ITS NOT EVEN RACE DRIVEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its not like the cop shot the kid because he was black! He shot the kid because the kid deserved to be shot (or at least thats what my dad would say if this happened to me).

Its a blame game and the rioters arent suddenly going to stop and publicly say "we were wrong", no, they are going to keep grabbing onto anything they can and continue to make this as big as they can.

Sad. Its a giant knot thats only going to get untied by our federal government treating Ferguson like a war zone.

07D675CO
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 09:01 AM
Well you just need to stop. You are clearly watching too much CNN. You have so many incorrect statements in just a few posts its not even funny.

The finale statement about kkk being a relic of the past is very laughable.

Dude you need to slow your roll because I made no incorrect statements. So keep trolling with your little fan club.

bulldog
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 09:06 AM
Dude you need to slow your roll because I made no incorrect statements. So keep trolling with your little fan club. :lol: Townie has a fan club….you new to this club man because I bet Townie has argued with more people on here than most; so to say people back him because we are "fans" is hilarious. No, you said many incorrect statements and Townie called you out on them and that is why people agreed. I'd point them out, but I feel like you don't get it anyways so what is the point.

Here is one tidbit on that "relic" KKK....amazing from this week: Missouri KKK: We will use ‘lethal force’ against Ferguson protesters (http://rt.com/usa/205735-kkk-lethal-force-ferguson-protests/)

rel·ic
ˈrelik/
noun




an object, custom, or belief that has survived from an earlier time but is now outmoded.

07D675CO
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 09:19 AM
:lol: Townie has a fan club….you new to this club man because I bet Townie has argued with more people on here than most; so to say people back him because we are "fans" is hilarious. No, you said many incorrect statements and Townie called you out on them and that is why people agreed. I'd point them out, but I feel like you don't get it anyways so what is the point.

Here is one tidbit on that "relic" KKK....amazing from this week: Missouri KKK: We will use ‘lethal force’ against Ferguson protesters (http://rt.com/usa/205735-kkk-lethal-force-ferguson-protests/)

rel·ic
ˈrelik/
noun




an object, custom, or belief that has survived from an earlier time but is now outmoded.








Show me where I made incorrect statements because all Townie did was spout off a bunch of stuff but nothing that proves anything I said wrong. So I don't consider you any better of a troll than him. It seems some of you have misinterpreted my statement about the KKK. What I meant was it long ago needed to die. It is just a left over relic from a previous era when racism was the norm.

bulldog
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 09:28 AM
Show me where I made incorrect statements because all Townie did was spout off a bunch of stuff but nothing that proves anything I said wrong. So I don't consider you any better of a troll than him. It seems some of you have misinterpreted my statement about the KKK. What I meant was it long ago needed to die. It is just a left over relic from a previous era when racism was the norm. Fair enough...maybe your statements were just taken wrong then. I did take you thought the KKK was a relic meaning gone and also that you thought white people were never slaves :dunno:


Anyways on a realted note KKK hit by cyberattack after Ferguson threats (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/11/18/anonymous-hacks-kkk-twitter-accounts-ferguson-threats/19215047/) <--click

Anonymous, a network of unnamed online activists who hack as a form of protest and "cyberwarfare," has taken aim at the Ku Klux Klan.
The group claims to have hacked KKK websites and social media accounts and has also published the names of individuals it says are Klan members.

mdub
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 09:32 AM
.... It seems some of you have misinterpreted my statement about the KKK. What I meant was it long ago needed to die. It is just a left over relic from a previous era when racism was the norm.


Yeah some might have interpreted your statement differently . But it is incorrect . The klan is not a left over. It unfortunately never left or stop to be an entity. Yeah they have laid low , but shit like this gives them a fucking warp of existence.. It is their fuel for their biggotted fire.

mdub
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 09:38 AM
..... Hahahaha... slow your roll Townie!!!! I like that. Funny sheatt..

#1Townie
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 09:50 AM
Dude you need to slow your roll because I made no incorrect statements. So keep trolling with your little fan club.

Hahahaha I have a fan club? Ummmm bro i remember my first posts with you. I was arguing with multiple people and you even called for me to be banned because I don't live in Colorado. Try again buddy.

You didn't make any false statements? How about the first post I went off about? You know the whole never being a slave comment? I even backed that up with links. If you even bothered to read them.

I'm not trolling you. If I was trolling you I would be looking for a emotional outburst. No I'm just saying that you have some very incorrect ideas about the world.

To finish by going back to your "relic" comment. A relic is a object or idea that is a thing of the past. The kkk is a group. A group that is still around and still up to no good.

Your idea of using the word relic was false. Also racism is still very much alive today. And it is a sad thing. Only thing is its not the same as it used to be. Knock out game? Random violence against white people? Hell you have bored kids killing white people for "fun".

Like I said I'm not trolling you. I'm correcting incorrect comments. And I have given you links. You ignored them and decided to carry on.

Maybe you're trolling yourself. Idk.

JKOL
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 10:37 AM
:lol: Townie has a fan club….you new to this club man because I bet Townie has argued with more people on here than most; so to say people back him because we are "fans" is hilarious. No, you said many incorrect statements and Townie called you out on them and that is why people agreed. I'd point them out, but I feel like you don't get it anyways so what is the point.

Here is one tidbit on that "relic" KKK....amazing from this week: Missouri KKK: We will use ‘lethal force’ against Ferguson protesters (http://rt.com/usa/205735-kkk-lethal-force-ferguson-protests/)

rel·ic
ˈrelik/
noun




an object, custom, or belief that has survived from an earlier time but is now outmoded.








:imwithstupid:

In the past I have had to ignore some topics Townie posted in because he would get me way too worked up for someone I have never interacted with outside of this forum, but I find myself agreeing with everything he has said on this topic which is a rarity for me.

The fan club comment is too funny.

JKOL
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 10:52 AM
Hahahaha I have a fan club? Ummmm bro i remember my first posts with you. I was arguing with multiple people and you even called for me to be banned because I don't live in Colorado. Try again buddy.

You didn't make any false statements? How about the first post I went off about? You know the whole never being a slave comment? I even backed that up with links. If you even bothered to read them.

I'm not trolling you. If I was trolling you I would be looking for a emotional outburst. No I'm just saying that you have some very incorrect ideas about the world.

To finish by going back to your "relic" comment. A relic is a object or idea that is a thing of the past. The kkk is a group. A group that is still around and still up to no good.

Your idea of using the word relic was false. Also racism is still very much alive today. And it is a sad thing. Only thing is its not the same as it used to be. Knock out game? Random violence against white people? Hell you have bored kids killing white people for "fun".

Like I said I'm not trolling you. I'm correcting incorrect comments. And I have given you links. You ignored them and decided to carry on.

Maybe you're trolling yourself. Idk.

Damn you Townie, if I continue to agree with you it could cause my head to explode. :D

Again, you are spot on, the double standard that persists today of only white people can be racists, but black people can't is too ridiculous for me to comprehend. It is why I believe we are moving backwards rapidly as a society when it comes to racial division.

To go along with your killing white people for fun, here is another link for 07D675CO to ignore. https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A2KK_JJIDW5UP9cA0XqbvZx4?p=black+teen+ kills+austrailian+baseball+player&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-901&fp=1

The knockout game is F*&king infuriating.

In other news, I saw a report yesterday that St. Louis gun stores are selling 2-3 times more firearms than they normally sell this time of year. Like Aaron said, this could easily make the LA riots look like a weekend at Disneyland. St. Louis isn't exactly known as being a safe city to begin with.

07D675CO
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 02:37 PM
Hahahaha I have a fan club? Ummmm bro i remember my first posts with you. I was arguing with multiple people and you even called for me to be banned because I don't live in Colorado. Try again buddy.

You didn't make any false statements? How about the first post I went off about? You know the whole never being a slave comment? I even backed that up with links. If you even bothered to read them.

I'm not trolling you. If I was trolling you I would be looking for a emotional outburst. No I'm just saying that you have some very incorrect ideas about the world.

To finish by going back to your "relic" comment. A relic is a object or idea that is a thing of the past. The kkk is a group. A group that is still around and still up to no good.

Your idea of using the word relic was false. Also racism is still very much alive today. And it is a sad thing. Only thing is its not the same as it used to be. Knock out game? Random violence against white people? Hell you have bored kids killing white people for "fun".

Like I said I'm not trolling you. I'm correcting incorrect comments. And I have given you links. You ignored them and decided to carry on.

Maybe you're trolling yourself. Idk.

If you bothered to read the links you would know not many ended up in the US, most were in the West Indies. Since your geography is terrible I'm sure, that is not part of the US. Second indentured servitude is not slavery. Now look at the total numbers of African slaves here and Irish. What I was talking about is the vast vast majority of a whole race being enslaved in a country. Considering the country was almost exclusively white a small percentage of them possibly slaves that is not even close to the fucking same.

Think about this "Only about 6 percent of imports went directly to British North America. Yet by 1825, the U.S. had a quarter of blacks in the New World." How does that not create a culture when the population exploded meaning they were born here and raised in slavery never knowing anything else.

Some more stats for you: "In 1860, 89 percent of the nation's African Americans were slaves; blacks formed 13 percent of the country's population and 33 percent of the South's population." Can you imagine if 89% of the white population was enslaved? What would that do to your culture and your community?

Now I'm going to give you an English lesson: One of the definitions of Relic: "4. relics.

remaining parts or fragments."


So now what do you got?

#1Townie
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 03:12 PM
If you bothered to read the links you would know not many ended up in the US, most were in the West Indies. Since your geography is terrible I'm sure, that is not part of the US. Second indentured servitude is not slavery. Now look at the total numbers of African slaves here and Irish. What I was talking about is the vast vast majority of a whole race being enslaved in a country. Considering the country was almost exclusively white a small percentage of them possibly slaves that is not even close to the fucking same.

Think about this "Only about 6 percent of imports went directly to British North America. Yet by 1825, the U.S. had a quarter of blacks in the New World." How does that not create a culture when the population exploded meaning they were born here and raised in slavery never knowing anything else.

Some more stats for you: "In 1860, 89 percent of the nation's African Americans were slaves; blacks formed 13 percent of the country's population and 33 percent of the South's population." Can you imagine if 89% of the white population was enslaved? What would that do to your culture and your community?

Now I'm going to give you an English lesson: One of the definitions of Relic: "4. relics.

remaining parts or fragments."


So now what do you got?


Hahahaha and if you had bothered to continue to read you would have read that by the end of slavery the majority of slaves were owned by black slave owners.

I never argued on the majority. I argued that they were not the only ones.

Also along your relic remark. Fragments? Blaahahaha.

Try again bud. Considering that there is not only the kk but many many other organizations that operate with the same goals one would say they have just branched out.

Relic. Lol. What a joke.

Tell you what bud why don't you go do some homework and come back to the table with real facts. Not some garbage repeated from CNN.


Start with this. Look up the percentages of black vs white crime. Start with rape. After you do that come back and tell me how I should still feel remorse for events from the 1800s.

Maybe once you open your eyes you can see what is truly happening in this country. You can see how the news is creating this division with people.

Don't you see that fox news and CNN are the two largest dividers of this country? This left vs right bullshit is the problem with the country.

Every report they give is to play on your emotions. That's because once you have been sucked in they can play you off your emotions. This creates that divide. As long as we hate each other we can never truly have this country.

As long as we are divided we will argue over shity presidents and how great/awful they are. Truth is they are just working to help get the rich richer.

I want you to go do some reading on your own. Go see how white people are being told to feel bad about those things. And then read about how the roles are being reversed.

After you read that see how in the news its always massive headlines about a white cop blah blah. You never read about the black cop killing the unarmed white tean. You never read about the group of black youth randomly attacking the white people. Screaming racial slurs.

That is another pawn in the game to make us angry. I'm not buying it. I can see manipulation a mile away. No I want to see the day we all stand together and take back this country. White.. Black.. Brown or yellow. All standing together to create real change in our government.

Go read man. You will see that everything I'm saying about the white vs black is true. Its just simple manipulation.

Ph03niX
Thu Nov 20th, 2014, 08:43 PM
I wondered how much of the population in Ferguson or the surrounding areas carry a gun and came up with this. Gun sales have risen by a large amount.. http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/ferguson-cop-advises-residents-to-get-a-gun-we-will-not-be-able-to-protect-you-or-your-family-11172014

If only everyone owned a gun...

mdub
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 05:49 AM
.....I want to see the day we all stand together and take back this country. White.. Black.. Brown or yellow. All standing together to create real change in our government.


Dont forget Rainbow....

Geology Rocks
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 08:13 AM
I will be there! Riding my pet unicorn stumpy

bulldog
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 08:50 AM
I will be there! Riding my pet unicorn stumpy WTF...are you part of Anonymous! :lol: Cuz a picture of this unicorn is what they sent out when they hacked into the KKK's twitter account
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2014301.1416281001!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/ku-klux-klan-twitter.jpg?enlarged


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/anonymous-launches-attack-ku-klux-klan-article-1.2013559

#1Townie
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 09:46 AM
Dont forget Rainbow....

Yeah I know. But still it would be nice to be able work with each other instead of against.

07D675CO
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 02:22 PM
Hahahaha and if you had bothered to continue to read you would have read that by the end of slavery the majority of slaves were owned by black slave owners.

I never argued on the majority. I argued that they were not the only ones.

Also along your relic remark. Fragments? Blaahahaha.

Try again bud. Considering that there is not only the kk but many many other organizations that operate with the same goals one would say they have just branched out.

Relic. Lol. What a joke.

Tell you what bud why don't you go do some homework and come back to the table with real facts. Not some garbage repeated from CNN.


Start with this. Look up the percentages of black vs white crime. Start with rape. After you do that come back and tell me how I should still feel remorse for events from the 1800s.

Maybe once you open your eyes you can see what is truly happening in this country. You can see how the news is creating this division with people.

Don't you see that fox news and CNN are the two largest dividers of this country? This left vs right bullshit is the problem with the country.

Every report they give is to play on your emotions. That's because once you have been sucked in they can play you off your emotions. This creates that divide. As long as we hate each other we can never truly have this country.

As long as we are divided we will argue over shity presidents and how great/awful they are. Truth is they are just working to help get the rich richer.

I want you to go do some reading on your own. Go see how white people are being told to feel bad about those things. And then read about how the roles are being reversed.

After you read that see how in the news its always massive headlines about a white cop blah blah. You never read about the black cop killing the unarmed white tean. You never read about the group of black youth randomly attacking the white people. Screaming racial slurs.

That is another pawn in the game to make us angry. I'm not buying it. I can see manipulation a mile away. No I want to see the day we all stand together and take back this country. White.. Black.. Brown or yellow. All standing together to create real change in our government.

Go read man. You will see that everything I'm saying about the white vs black is true. Its just simple manipulation.

You clearly need to stay away from the tinfoil hat blogs etc. You cannot just forget about hundreds of years of history because it is inconvenient for you. I never said I agree with the actions of the protesters, or the culture. I am just saying there are reasons behind it. You can't seem to grasp that.

Considering people were still killed and prevented from exercising their freedoms until the mid-1960s I think your 1800's comment is pretty disingenuous. Get your head out of the sand already, or your ass whichever you prefer. This is my last reply to your petty comments until you can talk intelligently and not blah blah blah.

#1Townie
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 02:52 PM
You clearly need to stay away from the tinfoil hat blogs etc. You cannot just forget about hundreds of years of history because it is inconvenient for you. I never said I agree with the actions of the protesters, or the culture. I am just saying there are reasons behind it. You can't seem to grasp that.

Considering people were still killed and prevented from exercising their freedoms until the mid-1960s I think your 1800's comment is pretty disingenuous. Get your head out of the sand already, or your ass whichever you prefer. This is my last reply to your petty comments until you can talk intelligently and not blah blah blah.


Hahahaha yeah. I'm the one not having a intelligent conversation? Slavery has been over to almost as long as it lasted.

If you want to really compare something let's compare the Jews. They have been enslaved and killed for thousands of years. Hell just not too long ago something like six million of them were killed just because they were Jews.

So yeah you want comparisons let's look at that.

j0ker
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 02:55 PM
I have no idea where this thread is going but I brought popcorn.

Ezzzzy1
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 04:04 PM
I am just saying there are reasons behind it. You can't seem to grasp that.



So are you saying that what we are seeing in Ferguson is the product of slavery?

mdub
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 04:27 PM
........ And we are about to go a full circle....

Nolan
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 04:29 PM
I think it's the unicorn.
Fucking magic.

TFOGGuys
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 04:49 PM
http://youtu.be/aCbfMkh940Q

j0ker
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 05:39 PM
Its the only way to be sure!

#1Townie
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 07:52 PM
So are you saying that what we are seeing in Ferguson is the product of slavery?


That's what he's saying. Poverty. Crime. Everything. Its because of slavery.

At least its not because of the aliens.

The Black Knight
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 08:29 PM
At least its not because of the aliens.
I kinda wish it was.. Give me a chance to go all Colonial Marine on them..

Ezzzzy1
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 09:01 PM
Lets go Braveheart on their asses!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/braveheart-battle-2_zpsdbb8286c.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/braveheart-battle-2_zpsdbb8286c.jpg.html)

The Black Knight
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 10:10 PM
McCulloch

#1Townie
Fri Nov 21st, 2014, 10:41 PM
FREEEEEEEDOM!!

Aaron
Mon Nov 24th, 2014, 07:45 PM
Grand Jury has declined to indict. I am Darren Wilson.

birchyboy
Mon Nov 24th, 2014, 08:09 PM
I'll be watching the C/L site for the Ferguson area over the next couple of days. I need a cheap computer and maybe some rims.

The Black Knight
Mon Nov 24th, 2014, 09:13 PM
You know what I'm finding extra hilarious right now is the fact that they are rioting and destroying their own parts of the city. Good job people :slap:

Ezzzzy1
Mon Nov 24th, 2014, 09:17 PM
The Grand Jurys transcripts that were released are crazy! Brown got 100% everything he deserved.

FZRguy
Tue Nov 25th, 2014, 04:03 AM
Chris Rock - How not to get your ass kicked by the police!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ

#1Townie
Tue Nov 25th, 2014, 07:54 AM
Grand Jury has declined to indict. I am Darren Wilson.

You forgot the hash tag.

UHATEIT
Tue Nov 25th, 2014, 08:25 AM
You forgot the hash tag.

You mean number/pound sign.

Aaron
Tue Nov 25th, 2014, 08:25 AM
I don't even know what hash tags are or do. Just hear people say it all the time.

Nolan
Tue Nov 25th, 2014, 09:15 AM
#overit

The Black Knight
Tue Nov 25th, 2014, 10:03 AM
I don't even know what hash tags are or do. Just hear people say it all the time.

It has to do with Twitter(another one of those useless social media sites) and people have run it into the ground. It's traditionally the pound sign and you're right, I have no idea what the hell a "hastag" really is. It's lame and makes no sense.

#riots

mdub
Wed Nov 26th, 2014, 08:02 AM
Grand Jury has declined to indict. I am Darren Wilson.


Yup heard the cop say on radio news that he came at him and try to grab his gun.

#1Townie
Wed Nov 26th, 2014, 08:06 AM
I don't even know what hash tags are or do. Just hear people say it all the time.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashtag

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 08:35 AM
You can't fix this kind of ignorance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNFTfR6WycA

Nolan
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 08:48 AM
Wow. Just wow.

Ezzzzy1
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 09:23 AM
This is what happens when morals and civility are not interjected into somones life while growing up. Manners and respect are next followed by pride. When you dont know what these things are you are literally willing to shit on the same exact plate that you eat on.

Sad.

07D675CO
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 09:35 AM
This is what happens when morals and civility are not interjected into somones life while growing up. Manners and respect are next followed by pride. When you dont know what these things are you are literally willing to shit on the same exact plate that you eat on.

Sad.

At this point I think it is a lot of people that just want to destroy stuff because they have nothing better to do. Probably no legit jobs and are mad at the world for their situation even if they do have a hand in where they are.


Now that NY case appears to be a little different than this one based on the video evidence and coroners report. They also appear to be a little more civilized in their protesting from what I have seen.

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 10:56 AM
At this point I think it is a lot of people that just want to destroy stuff because they have nothing better to do. Probably no legit jobs and are mad at the world for their situation even if they do have a hand in where they are.


Now that NY case appears to be a little different than this one based on the video evidence and coroners report. They also appear to be a little more civilized in their protesting from what I have seen.

If you watched the video Ezzzzy1 is responding too, then it is clear these people (I am hesitant to call them people) have full responsibility for where they are in life. With the attitudes and views they express, I give zero f&^ks if they all end up in jail or dead, just like I don't care if the KKK or Westboro Baptist church all stop breathing.

For those that didn't watch the video, let me summarize:
all white people are racist
black people can't be racist for hating whites because whites are the devil.
the facts don't matter, Darren Wilson should be killed, he should be hung.

The only difference between these f&%ktards and the KKK is the skin color.

07D675CO
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 11:05 AM
If you watched the video Ezzzzy1 is responding too, then it is clear these people (I am hesitant to call them people) have full responsibility for where they are in life. With the attitudes and views they express, I give zero f&^ks if they all end up in jail or dead, just like I don't care if the KKK or Westboro Baptist church all stop breathing.

For those that didn't watch the video, let me summarize:
all white people are racist
black people can't be racist for hating whites because whites are the devil.
the facts don't matter, Darren Wilson should be killed, he should be hung.

The only difference between these f&%ktards and the KKK is the skin color.

Just to be clear I wasn't responding directly to that video, just the situation there currently and the people I have seen or read about.

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 11:33 AM
If you watched the video Ezzzzy1 is responding too, then it is clear these people (I am hesitant to call them people) have full responsibility for where they are in life. With the attitudes and views they express, I give zero f&^ks if they all end up in jail or dead, just like I don't care if the KKK or Westboro Baptist church all stop breathing.



In general, not specific to this case, I do have to say that not all people get the same opportunities in life. I see it everyday with these rich kids I work with. They graduated college with D's because their parents paid 100% of tuition and they never had to carry a job or do much other than go to college. I on the other hand came from a single parent home and grew up in a bad neighborhood and no way could my family afford to sent me to college. So I had to get academic scholarships and work full time while in college. Then I see the rich kids act like we had the same opportunities....not true...I'd of loved to go to college and only worry about my studies and then pass with a D. When you get that diploma they don't care if one got it from getting B's and then other got it from D's....although no academic scholarship will allow someone to pass with D's; had to keep a 3.0gpa or risk losing scholarships.

So then you look at other poor families and can you really say that they have full responsibility for where they are born and what they are born into? You think the poor kid (white, black, hispanic, etc) has the same opportunities being born into a bad situation. Some come from abusive households, parents that don't care, drugs, and crime/gangs...going to school is surviving that day and not so much to learn (how it was for me).

Some kids are raised racist because that is all they know and not so sure that is their fault as children. They are pretty much brainwashed into it since hey day they can talk

Then take it to the next level. Does a kid in poor Africa who barely has drinkable water really responsible for that? Or was that child just not fortunate enough to be born where we were; USA. Same goes for many families across our nation. I so wish everything was equal, but it is not.


Not attacking you personally Jkol, just something I think about a lot and something to discuss.

07D675CO
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 12:05 PM
In general, not specific to this case, I do have to say that not all people get the same opportunities in life. I see it everyday with these rich kids I work with. They graduated college with D's because their parents paid 100% of tuition and they never had to carry a job or do much other than go to college. I on the other hand came from a single parent home and grew up in a bad neighborhood and no way could my family afford to sent me to college. So I had to get academic scholarships and work full time while in college. Then I see the rich kids act like we had the same opportunities....not true...I'd of loved to go to college and only worry about my studies and then pass with a D. When you get that diploma they don't care if one got it from getting B's and then other got it from D's....although no academic scholarship will allow someone to pass with D's; had to keep a 3.0gpa or risk losing scholarships.

So then you look at other poor families and can you really say that they have full responsibility for where they are born and what they are born into? You think the poor kid (white, black, hispanic, etc) has the same opportunities being born into a bad situation. Some come from abusive households, parents that don't care, drugs, and crime/gangs...going to school is surviving that day and not so much to learn (how it was for me).

Some kids are raised racist because that is all they know and not so sure that is their fault as children. They are pretty much brainwashed into it since hey day they can talk

Then take it to the next level. Does a kid in poor Africa who barely has drinkable water really responsible for that? Or was that child just not fortunate enough to be born where we were; USA. Same goes for many families across our nation. I so wish everything was equal, but it is not.


Not attacking you personally Jkol, just something I think about a lot and something to discuss.

I agree and this is something I was not expressing as well in much earlier posts. Sometimes I stop and think what would it be like if I had been born elsewhere or to different parents that didn't raise me the way they did. Things would be infinitely different, even if I had been born in the US just somewhere much poorer like LA instead of CA. America has one of the lowest scores for children moving up a station from their parents. So if you are born poor you are almost surely going to stay poor. Despite all these so called opportunities. Life involves a lot of luck but starting far up the food chain makes a huge difference.

Certainly people can make it out but that isn't the norm. It certainly should be though.

On the subject of working in school. My father in law will only hire people that worked through school. Because he knows it builds character and appreciation for hard work. I have to agree. I worked through school and I believe it taught me better life skills than if I had mommy and daddy pay for it all.

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 12:23 PM
I agree and this is something I was not expressing as well in much earlier posts. Sometimes I stop and think what would it be like if I had been born elsewhere or to different parents that didn't raise me the way they did. Things would be infinitely different, even if I had been born in the US just somewhere much poorer like LA instead of CA. America has one of the lowest scores for children moving up a station from their parents. So if you are born poor you are almost surely going to stay poor. Despite all these so called opportunities. Life involves a lot of luck but starting far up the food chain makes a huge difference.

Certainly people can make it out but that isn't the norm. It certainly should be though.

On the subject of working in school. My father in law will only hire people that worked through school. Because he knows it builds character and appreciation for hard work. I have to agree. I worked through school and I believe it taught me better life skills than if I had mommy and daddy pay for it all.
Well I have seen it first hand growing up. For a example I knew a kid who his grandpa was in a gang, his father was in same gang, older and middle brother were in same gang so the odds he also ends up in the same gang is very high. Why, because that is what he sees as normal and doesn't know much different. Not like a 5 year old is able to distinguish what is right and wrong when he sees his own father doing this. Of course this kid ended up in same gang and has been in and out of jail/juvee his entire life. Sad thing is he is a smart kid, but his enviroment started out crappy and he never had the proper guidance to get out of it. Only reason I was smart enough is I have a awesome mother, but a lot of kids don't have this support so they are taught wrong since babies.

Ebola and Malaria are another issue where I see people take for granted where we are. Notice very little was done for Malaria (a cure was only just started to be worked on recently) even though thousands die from it...because it manily occurs in poor regions. Nothing was done until it hit the countries that have money and then it was a problem. Same with Ebola; it was out of hand in poor Africa regions, but the minute one case turned up in USA it was a huge issue. Again because we are a richer country...and the only reason we are here is most of us were lucky enough to born here in USA. I fear what it would be like to be born into a poor African family where living conditions are so terrible it is common to see people die all around you. I basically just got lucky because none of us get to choose where or to who we are born.

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 12:42 PM
Good for both of you for working through school. I was lucky enough to only have to work during the summers, but guess what I still worked hard through school and I continue to work hard. A good work ethic isn't something that all rich kids lack, you both are generalizing quite a bit acting as it if is. Much the like the ignorant clowns in the video are generalizing when they say every white person is racist.

I know it wasn't directed at me, but the comment about mommy and daddy paying for it all means absolutely shit to me. It just makes people that say that sound like jealous haters. I didn't get mad at the minority students at my high school that had the same or a worse GPA than me that got scholarships simply based on being minority students, so why are you pissed that some people didn't have to work through school just because you did?

I understand not everyone starts at the same place in life, but guess what, life isn't fair. That isn't my fault nor is it my problem. I don't get mad at brain surgeons for making more money than me, they were likely born with a brain and aptitude for a career that makes them more money than me. Plus, it is a safe bet that they worked really hard to get where they are.

Regardless of where the kids in the video started in life and what their situations are, staying in that life and station has far more to do with their garbage attitudes, lack of morals, and general desire to get into trouble rather than go to school and get an education. I have zero to do with their situations they were born into, nor do I have anything to do with why they stay there. Opportunities are out there, but not for a group like this.

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 12:57 PM
Good for both of you for working through school. I was lucky enough to only have to work during the summers, but guess what I still worked hard through school and I continue to work hard. A good work ethic isn't something that all rich kids lack, you both are generalizing quite a bit acting as it if is. Much the like the ignorant clowns in the video are generalizing when they say every white person is racist.

I know it wasn't directed at me, but the comment about mommy and daddy paying for it all means absolutely shit to me. It just makes people that say that sound like jealous haters. I didn't get mad at the minority students at my high school that had the same or a worse GPA than me that got scholarships simply based on being minority students, so why are you pissed that some people didn't have to work through school just because you did?

I understand not everyone starts at the same place in life, but guess what, life isn't fair. That isn't my fault nor is it my problem. I don't get mad at brain surgeons for making more money than me, they were likely born with a brain and aptitude for a career that makes them more money than me. Plus, it is a safe bet that they worked really hard to get where they are.

Regardless of where the kids in the video started in life and what their situations are, staying in that life and station has far more to do with their garbage attitudes, lack of morals, and general desire to get into trouble rather than go to school and get an education. I have zero to do with their situations they were born into, nor do I have anything to do with why they stay there. Opportunities are out there, but not for a group like this. Wow, this is really your answer huh :dunno:

I ain't hating on you at all man,...I prefer to have come from the bottom and worked to where I got; has made me into what I am now. Not saying anything about your situation (hell I didn't know you didn't work through college...sheesh) because I am sure most people would choose that route over growing up poor...my point is nobody gets that choice and it is hard to judge what others have went through unless you get to be in their shoes....I really was not generalizing that all rich kids are that way....sorry you took it like that, because I only meant not everyone has same opportunities...good or bad.

I guess you didn't get what I was trying to say or just didn't care to. Of course life ain't fair, but your attitude that it isn't your problem is sad....but you are right and just be lucky you didn't have to deal with the problems some people do. Not sure where you got I was crying over this when I clearly stated people in other countries have it way worse. I am very fortunate to have what I do and I cherish that daily

07D675CO
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 01:15 PM
Good for both of you for working through school. I was lucky enough to only have to work during the summers, but guess what I still worked hard through school and I continue to work hard. A good work ethic isn't something that all rich kids lack, you both are generalizing quite a bit acting as it if is. Much the like the ignorant clowns in the video are generalizing when they say every white person is racist.

I know it wasn't directed at me, but the comment about mommy and daddy paying for it all means absolutely shit to me. It just makes people that say that sound like jealous haters. I didn't get mad at the minority students at my high school that had the same or a worse GPA than me that got scholarships simply based on being minority students, so why are you pissed that some people didn't have to work through school just because you did?

I understand not everyone starts at the same place in life, but guess what, life isn't fair. That isn't my fault nor is it my problem. I don't get mad at brain surgeons for making more money than me, they were likely born with a brain and aptitude for a career that makes them more money than me. Plus, it is a safe bet that they worked really hard to get where they are.

Regardless of where the kids in the video started in life and what their situations are, staying in that life and station has far more to do with their garbage attitudes, lack of morals, and general desire to get into trouble rather than go to school and get an education. I have zero to do with their situations they were born into, nor do I have anything to do with why they stay there. Opportunities are out there, but not for a group like this.

Since you wanted to take it personally. I'm not jealous just saying they didn't have the same struggles or obstacles to overcome. Getting handouts doesn't make you cherish it as much or appreciate it as much. The fact that you don't care about others in your community is very telling. Seems a lot like I got mine, F you if you can't get yours. Instead of lets make this better for everyone. Generalizing but something I see with those that didn't have to earn it.

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 01:41 PM
Wow, this is really your answer huh :dunno:

I ain't hating on you at all man,...I prefer to have come from the bottom and worked to where I got; has made me into what I am now. Not saying anything about your situation (hell I didn't know you didn't work through college...sheesh) because I am sure most people would choose that route over growing up poor...my point is nobody gets that choice and it is hard to judge what others have went through unless you get to be in their shoes....I really was not generalizing that all rich kids are that way....sorry you took it like that, because I only meant not everyone has same opportunities...good or bad.

I guess you didn't get what I was trying to say or just didn't care to. Of course life ain't fair, but your attitude that it isn't your problem is sad....but you are right and just be lucky you didn't have to deal with the problems some people do. Not sure where you got I was crying over this when I clearly stated people in other countries have it way worse. I am very fortunate to have what I do and I cherish that daily

I didn't take it personally, but acting like a kid that is rich has every advantage is silly. Rich kids can have garbage parents as well, single parent households, divorce and bad parenting isn't only a poor person problem. I know people that had crap parents and they turned out great, and I know people that had great parents and turned out to be garbage adults.

I know what you are trying to say, but I am not going to buy into it. I can only accept responsibility for my own actions. I am not responsible for the situations of others simply because I grew up in a middle class family. My mom was a broke single mom teaching elementary school. I was lucky I still had my dad around and later I ended up with a great step dad as well. I know I was lucky in that regard, but just because someone wasn't as lucky doesn't excuse them when they are hateful, angry, and horribly misguided people.

I don't look down on people for growing up differently than I did, but I do look down at people like those in the video, because they are ignorant, hateful people. Much the way I look down on the KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, or any other hateful group. They aren't helping their cause by burning down their own neighborhoods, burning down minority owned businesses in the process. They are more damaging to their own cause then any number of racist white people. They are hurting themselves and their families and communities.

Ask those that participated in the LA riots how that fight for their cause helped their neighborhoods. It is a safe bet those communities are far worse than they were before the riots took place which is the same fate for Fergusson. It is just sad those living there that burned their own community to the ground while the world watched and collectively wondered WTF these people were thinking, they were too blind by their rage and hatred to see they were only pushing themselves further into a hole.

Take a look at people from Mexico or from Central/South American countries that go through hell to get to the US to imrove their situations in life. They were all dealt a crappy hand by being born in 2nd/3rd world countries, but they bust their asses and fight to overcome a bad start. They don't sit and bitch about everyone keeping them down. I work in construction and it is booming all over the country right now, including right here in CO. There are plenty of opportunities for those willing to work hard. People from other countries have figured it out, it is sad that many right here in the US haven't. And while they sit on the sidelines and bitch about no opportunities, millions of hard working people from other countries are arriving every year and grabbing those opportunities that others say aren't available.

#1Townie
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 01:48 PM
I will be back later for this thread.

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 01:59 PM
I didn't take it personally, but acting like a kid that is rich has every advantage is silly. Rich kids can have garbage parents as well, single parent households, divorce and bad parenting isn't only a poor person problem. I know people that had crap parents and they turned out great, and I know people that had great parents and turned out to be garbage adults.

I know what you are trying to say, but I am not going to buy into it. I can only accept responsibility for my own actions. I am not responsible for the situations of others simply because I grew up in a middle class family. My mom was a broke single mom teaching elementary school. I was lucky I still had my dad around and later I ended up with a great step dad as well. I know I was lucky in that regard, but just because someone wasn't as lucky doesn't excuse them when they are hateful, angry, and horribly misguided people.

I don't look down on people for growing up differently than I did, but I do look down at people like those in the video, because they are ignorant, hateful people. Much the way I look down on the KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, or any other hateful group. They aren't helping their cause by burning down their own neighborhoods, burning down minority owned businesses in the process. They are more damaging to their own cause then any number of racist white people. They are hurting themselves and their families and communities.

Ask those that participated in the LA riots how that fight for their cause helped their neighborhoods. It is a safe bet those communities are far worse than they were before the riots took place which is the same fate for Fergusson. It is just sad those living there that burned their own community to the ground while the world watched and collectively wondered WTF these people were thinking, they were too blind by their rage and hatred to see they were only pushing themselves further into a hole.

Take a look at people from Mexico or from Central/South American countries that go through hell to get to the US to imrove their situations in life. They were all dealt a crappy hand by being born in 2nd/3rd world countries, but they bust their asses and fight to overcome a bad start. They don't sit and bitch about everyone keeping them down. I work in construction and it is booming all over the country right now, including right here in CO. There are plenty of opportunities for those willing to work hard. People from other countries have figured it out, it is sad that many right here in the US haven't. And while they sit on the sidelines and bitch about no opportunities, millions of hard working people from other countries are arriving every year and grabbing those opportunities that others say aren't available. You are just making it seem way easier than it is. Statistics have proved it is not as easy to get out of poverty as it seems. Here is a good article by CBS on it:



Poverty In America: Why It’s Difficult To Climb Out Of Poverty (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/) <-click

Snipet from article:

The “American Dream” gives Americans hope that if they workhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/#) hard, they will eventually be successful and they will “climb up the ladder.” But, has the “American Dream” failed to deliver to many Americans? Indeed.
In today’s society, it has become nearly impossible to “climb the ladder.” Those mail room jobs that later lead to a person becoming the President of the companyhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/#) rarely exist anymore. Many minimum wage workers work just as hard as anyone else, if not harder. But, their hard work is rarely rewarded with a raise or a promotion. Furthermore, our socioeconomic status is an unfortunate label that tends to stick with a person.
Poor people are often viewed and treated differently — as if they were a small segment of the American population. As if being poor was their fault…
To make matters worse, besides the way that they are viewed, poor people are often pushed further into poverty due to restrictions, lack of available fundshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/#), and unexpected financial burdens that they have no way to prepare for.


P.S. Not saying crazy riots are the answer though or I condone that....only meant in general people don't get dealt the same hand and it is not as easy as people think to get out and become a product of their environment. I have not followed the Fergusun incident enough to speak on it, so this was a general statement from the one I underlined at first from you that stated "full responsibility for where they are in life "full" being the key word here....I can say responsibility, but not always full responsibility


Few more article to show it is not easy to get out of poverty:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/why-cant-we-end-poverty-in-america.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/17/167449108/the-gritty-hard-climb-out-of-poverty

GMR
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 02:08 PM
When I first heard the story, I thought "that's f'd up". Then I heard about him being wanted for a robbery. Since there is no footage released of said robbery, I immediately grew suspicious that the police were maybe just trying to corroborate a backup story. Then I saw the guy's step-dad tell a mob to burn the city to the ground. Aha, now it all makes sense. Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean you have to be a terrible person. Not an excuse. I don't claim to be from a hard knock life, but I know lots who scratched their way through college, some made it out of poverty and are living the american dream, some aren't and are strapped with tons of debt living in poverty. Difference is that the people I know that aren't are not out robbing stores...

Why does everything have to turn into "blame others"

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 02:14 PM
You are just making it seem way easier than it is. Statistics have proved it is not as easy to get out of poverty as it seems. Here is a good article by CBS on it:



Poverty In America: Why It’s Difficult To Climb Out Of Poverty (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/) <-click

Snipet from article:

The “American Dream” gives Americans hope that if they workhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/#) hard, they will eventually be successful and they will “climb up the ladder.” But, has the “American Dream” failed to deliver to many Americans? Indeed.
In today’s society, it has become nearly impossible to “climb the ladder.” Those mail room jobs that later lead to a person becoming the President of the companyhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/#) rarely exist anymore. Many minimum wage workers work just as hard as anyone else, if not harder. But, their hard work is rarely rewarded with a raise or a promotion. Furthermore, our socioeconomic status is an unfortunate label that tends to stick with a person.
Poor people are often viewed and treated differently — as if they were a small segment of the American population. As if being poor was their fault…
To make matters worse, besides the way that they are viewed, poor people are often pushed further into poverty due to restrictions, lack of available fundshttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png (http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/07/25/poverty-in-america-why-its-difficult-to-climb-out-of-poverty/#), and unexpected financial burdens that they have no way to prepare for.


P.S. Not saying crazy riots are the answer though or I condone that....only meant in general people don't get dealt the same hand and it is not as easy as people think to get out and become a product of their environment.


Few more article to show it is not easy to get out of poverty:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opinion/sunday/why-cant-we-end-poverty-in-america.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/17/167449108/the-gritty-hard-climb-out-of-poverty

I never meant that it was easy, but it is impossible if you don't even try. See my Mexico and Central/South America example, many may never escape poverty, but they have a far better chance than someone not even trying.

I doubled my salary from a few years ago, by taking a chance and changing careers and busting my ass. It wasn't easy, but it paid off. We can all improve our position in life, we might not go from poverty to upper middle class, or middle class to a 9 figure net worth, but if we don't try because it isn't easy then that is on the person not willing to try.

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 02:21 PM
When I first heard the story, I thought "that's f'd up". Then I heard about him being wanted for a robbery. Since there is no footage released of said robbery, I immediately grew suspicious that the police were maybe just trying to corroborate a backup story. Then I saw the guy's step-dad tell a mob to burn the city to the ground. Aha, now it all makes sense. Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean you have to be a terrible person. Not an excuse. I don't claim to be from a hard knock life, but I know lots who scratched their way through college, some made it out of poverty and are living the american dream, some aren't and are strapped with tons of debt living in poverty. Difference is that the people I know that aren't are not out robbing stores...

Why does everything have to turn into "blame others" For sure!

Well that is partly my point....look how messed up this guys step-dad was to say that. I am sure this attitude is what this guy was raised by. Not right of course, but I bet this person was just not raised correctly. For all we know his step-father robs too so that is why this fool thought it was ok....just saying I have seen this all my life growing up in bad places....kids really had no clue what right and wrong is.

The little I know on the case I will say...you attack a cop you should understand their will be consequences. Not even just because they are a cop, but that is how authority works! Again not sure on details, but anyone attacks a cop I feel little sympathy because that is authority and it has to be followed....I do wish less lethal force could be used, but I would understand a officer should not have to risk their life for some criminal attacking them....in reason of course


I never meant that it was easy, but it is impossible if you don't even try. See my Mexico and Central/South America example, many may never escape poverty, but they have a far better chance than someone not even trying.

I doubled my salary from a few years ago, by taking a chance and changing careers and busting my ass. It wasn't easy, but it paid off. We can all improve our position in life, we might not go from poverty to upper middle class, or middle class to a 9 figure net worth, but if we don't try because it isn't easy then that is on the person not willing to try. Well you do understand that the Mexico situation you are referring to is illegal; they sneak over here to America. They risk getting deported so it is not like they broke through this barrier. Then it just hurts American more because they are not paying taxes. Then they will work for less than others so employees will use illegals over citizens just to save money. Mexico actually is improving their economy faster than us; go view how much the peso is now worth to thee dollar and compare that to 20 years ago. The peso is almost worth as much as the dollar now....because they have went up and we have went down.

You took a chance and it worked out, but didn't seem like you had a lot to lose. One wrong chance for them could result in them being homeless.

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 02:41 PM
When I first heard the story, I thought "that's f'd up". Then I heard about him being wanted for a robbery. Since there is no footage released of said robbery, I immediately grew suspicious that the police were maybe just trying to corroborate a backup story. Then I saw the guy's step-dad tell a mob to burn the city to the ground. Aha, now it all makes sense. Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean you have to be a terrible person. Not an excuse. I don't claim to be from a hard knock life, but I know lots who scratched their way through college, some made it out of poverty and are living the american dream, some aren't and are strapped with tons of debt living in poverty. Difference is that the people I know that aren't are not out robbing stores...

Why does everything have to turn into "blame others"

It isn't hard to find the video of Michael Brown robbing the store. Even the main stream media showed it a lot.

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 03:00 PM
For sure!

Well that is partly my point....look how messed up this guys step-dad was to say that. I am sure this attitude is what this guy was raised by. Not right of course, but I bet this person was just not raised correctly. For all we know his step-father robs too so that is why this fool thought it was ok....just saying I have seen this all my life growing up in bad places....kids really had no clue what right and wrong is.

The little I know on the case I will say...you attack a cop you should understand their will be consequences. Not even just because they are a cop, but that is how authority works! Again not sure on details, but anyone attacks a cop I feel little sympathy because that is authority and it has to be followed....I do wish less lethal force could be used, but I would understand a officer should not have to risk their life for some criminal attacking them....in reason of course

Well you do understand that the Mexico situation you are referring to is illegal; they sneak over here to America. They risk getting deported so it is not like they broke through this barrier. Then it just hurts American more because they are not paying taxes. Then they will work for less than others so employees will use illegals over citizens just to save money. Mexico actually is improving their economy faster than us; go view how much the peso is now worth to thee dollar and compare that to 20 years ago. The peso is almost worth as much as the dollar now....because they have went up and we have went down.

You took a chance and it worked out, but didn't seem like you had a lot to lose. One wrong chance for them could result in them being homeless.

Seriously??? Yes I am aware they are illegal, but you made it sound like poor people don't have a chance to change their situation, so I offered a counter point. Illegal or not, they aren't sitting on their asses and blaming white people, they are taking action to improve their standing. And in case you missed Obama's executive action, all those illegals that had kids on US soil, making those kids citizens of the USA, are now no longer at risk of being deported themselves by way of having an American child. Hey, they gamed the system, but I can't be mad at them for it. They figured out the system and they use it to their advantage.

We can certainly agree that his parents did a shitty job raising him, ie his mom attacking his grandmother for selling shirts with his name on it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/michael-brown-mom-face-felony-armed-robbery-charges-article-1.2001373
His stepdad is clearly a professional asshole.

Will we always make the excuse for anyone with bad parents that it isn't their fault because they were raised poorly? My guess is her parents, assuming she was raised by two parents, weren't any better raising her, so I ask you, who breaks the cycle? If Michael Brown hadn't attacked a cop and gotten himself killed, he probably would have had a few kids and raised them as poorly as he was leading to them continuing the cycle of hatred, lack of education, and lack of resources leading to poverty. At some point, someone has to stand up and say we are screwing ourselves, we aren't being screwed by anyone but US. Accept responsibility and CHANGE. I also love the irony of someone claiming there are not jobs in their community as they are burning down or robbing the very businesses that could employ them.

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 03:01 PM
Some people get it, like these guys: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. For those that continue making excuses, the cycle will continue unbroken.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 03:14 PM
Seriously??? Yes I am aware they are illegal, but you made it sound like poor people don't have a chance to change their situation, so I offered a counter point. Illegal or not, they aren't sitting on their asses and blaming white people, they are taking action to improve their standing. And in case you missed Obama's executive action, all those illegals that had kids on US soil, making those kids citizens of the USA, are now no longer at risk of being deported themselves by way of having an American child. Hey, they gamed the system, but I can't be mad at them for it. They figured out the system and they use it to their advantage.

We can certainly agree that his parents did a shitty job raising him, ie his mom attacking his grandmother for selling shirts with his name on it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/michael-brown-mom-face-felony-armed-robbery-charges-article-1.2001373
His stepdad is clearly a professional asshole.

Will we always make the excuse for anyone with bad parents that it isn't their fault because they were raised poorly? My guess is her parents, assuming she was raised by two parents, weren't any better raising her, so I ask you, who breaks the cycle? If Michael Brown hadn't attacked a cop and gotten himself killed, he probably would have had a few kids and raised them as poorly as he was leading to them continuing the cycle of hatred, lack of education, and lack of resources leading to poverty. At some point, someone has to stand up and say we are screwing ourselves, we aren't being screwed by anyone but US. Accept responsibility and CHANGE. I also love the irony of someone claiming there are not jobs in their community as they are burning down or robbing the very businesses that could employ them. Well I provided links that show that it is not that easy to get out or poverty, but all you came back with was the Mexico thing :dunno: You basically stated to do illegal activities to get ahead....not much different to me than a guy selling crack on corner. Same thing, he found a way to use the system (drug addicts) and profit from it. The illegal Mexican found a way to make money illegally so so did the hustler.

I didn't write these articles but there are many out there and I do not see poverty getting better in this country

As for parents, our childhood does unfortunately shape us as a person a lot...been proven for years and years. May only be 18 years, but they structure our life almost more than the rest of our life....the child brain can absorb a lot more information that a adult.

I like to provide proof for what I say so here is a detailed study of exactly what I am talking about

http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/98/01/98001.pdf

Poverty.
10 Family poverty experienced during a child’s early years is related to a variety
of poor short-term outcomes such as delayed cognitive development (measured by IQ
tests), and behavior problems.11 Children experiencing long-term poverty exhibit
significantly increased levels of developmental delay compared to developmental delays
found in children experiencing short-term poverty.12 Relationships exist between families
with relatively low incomes and increased incidence of child maltreatment (child abuse and
neglect), inconsistent discipline practices, and reduced parent-child interaction.13
There are also associations between poverty and family stress, and behavior problems in
preschool children.14 Some lifecourse outcomes may depend on the age at which children
experience poverty, or on how long those experiences last

Family and Neighborhood Violence.
Family and neighborhood violence can affect
children’s lifecourse outcomes. One recent study explores the extent to which inner city
children and their mothers witness violent episodes within the home or community.49 It
found that significant numbers of preschool children and their parents had either
witnessed, or been a victim of, some kind of violent act. Many of those surveyed
identified more than one episode of violence. In addition, parents who had witnessed
violent acts were more likely to limit their children’s movement, to express fear for
themselves and their children, and to limit their children’s play outdoors. Such responses
to violence can affect a child’s development.50
A recent survey of the research on family and neighborhood violence identifies several
effects of such violence on children.51 For example, school-aged children who are
exposed to violence can develop anxiety and sleep disturbances, and may become
inattentive in class. Exposure to trauma in the first three years of life can cause similar
disturbances. Further, very young children (under three years of age) also may experience
difficulty developing trust and autonomy. Evidence is increasing that both preschool and
school age children exposed to chronic community violence and violence in the home may
develop Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).52 Among its symptoms are eating and
sleeping disorders, anxious reactions, flashbacks, withdrawal, depression, or aggressive
behaviors. Neighborhood violence also can affect the ability of parents to parent, which
can affect child development.53 Further, living in a “high risk” neighborhood can increase
the incidence of low birth weight.54

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 03:47 PM
Well I provided links that show that it is not that easy to get out or poverty, but all you came back with was the Mexico thing :dunno: You basically stated to do illegal activities to get ahead....not much different to me than a guy selling crack on corner. Same thing, he found a way to use the system (drug addicts) and profit from it. The illegal Mexican found a way to make money illegally so so did the hustler.

I didn't write these articles but there are many out there and I do not see poverty getting better in this country

As for parents, our childhood does unfortunately shape us as a person a lot...been proven for years and years. May only be 18 years, but they structure our life almost more than the rest of our life....the child brain can absorb a lot more information that a adult.

I like to provide proof for what I say so here is a detailed study of exactly what I am talking about

http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/98/01/98001.pdf

Poverty.
10 Family poverty experienced during a child’s early years is related to a variety
of poor short-term outcomes such as delayed cognitive development (measured by IQ
tests), and behavior problems.11 Children experiencing long-term poverty exhibit
significantly increased levels of developmental delay compared to developmental delays
found in children experiencing short-term poverty.12 Relationships exist between families
with relatively low incomes and increased incidence of child maltreatment (child abuse and
neglect), inconsistent discipline practices, and reduced parent-child interaction.13
There are also associations between poverty and family stress, and behavior problems in
preschool children.14 Some lifecourse outcomes may depend on the age at which children
experience poverty, or on how long those experiences last

Illegal immigration and selling crack are the same? I disagree, the government is trying to make all those illegal immigrants LEGAL. I don't see Obama rushing out to legalize crack. I find it funny that as someone typically right of center I am actually defending illegal immigration, but to be honest, I have been around construction long enough to see the illegal immigrants want to work, and they work hard. Other than skilled trades like welders, plumbers, eletricians, there aren't many white guys in this business, and maybe 1/200 workers are black guys. It isn't for a lack of opportunity because we can't find enough laborers right now, skilled or otherwise. If you can show up to work without being drunk or high, you will be hired. I won't even go into my experience on the indian reservation, other than to say I will gladly accept illegal immigrant workers before I do another project relying on Native American labor.

Again, I agree that parents can really screw a kid up, but I ask you how does that change in poor communities where the majority of kids are raised by single parents or by relatives and have zero parents in their lives? At what point does someone say this isn't working and try to change? I will give you a hint, it isn't going to be a white guy that changes poor black communities. That change will have to come from within. Otherwise we will just continue to see baby makers having kids, never bothering to raise them properly, and then those bad kids will grow up and have their own kids that won't be raised right either, and the cycle will remain unbroken.

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 04:03 PM
Illegal immigration and selling crack are the same? I disagree, the government is trying to make all those illegal immigrants LEGAL. I don't see Obama rushing out to legalize crack. I find it funny that as someone typically right of center I am actually defending illegal immigration, but to be honest, I have been around construction long enough to see the illegal immigrants want to work, and they work hard. Other than skilled trades like welders, plumbers, eletricians, there aren't many white guys in this business, and maybe 1/200 workers are black guys. It isn't for a lack of opportunity because we can't find enough laborers right now, skilled or otherwise. If you can show up to work without being drunk or high, you will be hired. I won't even go into my experience on the indian reservation, other than to say I will gladly accept illegal immigrant workers before I do another project relying on Native American labor.

Again, I agree that parents can really screw a kid up, but I ask you how does that change in poor communities where the majority of kids are raised by single parents or by relatives and have zero parents in their lives? At what point does someone say this isn't working and try to change? I will give you a hint, it isn't going to be a white guy that changes poor black communities. That change will have to come from within. Otherwise we will just continue to see baby makers having kids, never bothering to raise them properly, and then those bad kids will grow up and have their own kids that won't be raised right either, and the cycle will remain unbroken.
You come with no facts, just speculation. Have you seen how other countries have legalized drugs and crime and drug use went down? Just because America has not done it does not mean it does not work. I'd pull up those facts, but seems like you don't even read what I post.

The fact is people are going to do drugs whether they are legal or not; just depends from where. Look at how well CO and CA are doing from the legalization of Marijuana. You bet I'd rather drug addicts pay taxes on drugs because illegals do not and it is clogging up the system. You know most teachers in NM now need to know Spanish because a majority of their students speak Spanish...why because some public schools do not require a SS # so you have tons off illegals getting a free education for their kids when the poverty American has to pay taxes and follow the rules. You state you would hire these illegals and that is the main problem...they work for cheaper and since they do not have to report a W2 (taxes) nobody knows they are paid under minimum wage; therefore of course they will work and employers would hire them to save a buck....it is why Union and long term workers are scarce now. If you don't see how this is taking jobs away from Americans then go look at the un-employment rate...oh right all these people just are not as persistent as you I guess.

As for your last question....it is quite obvious you did not even read the links I posted because your questions were answered by the study. You obviously are not getting that all people do not have the same opportunities and I have given you facts of childhood development and the impact on a environment of a growing child. So yeah again be lucky you had the past you did, but you need to stop acting like you had the same opportunity as a child in poor parts of India and realize how fortunate you are you were raised well

JKOL
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 04:18 PM
You come with no facts, just speculation. Have you seen how other countries have legalized drugs and crime and drug use went down? Just because America has not done it does not mean it does not work. I'd pull up those facts, but seems like you don't even read what I post.

The fact is people are going to do drugs whether they are legal or not; just depends from where. Look at how well CO and CA are doing from the legalization of Marijuana. You bet I'd rather drug addicts pay taxes on drugs because illegals do not and it is clogging up the system. You know most teachers in NM now need to know Spanish because a majority of their students speak Spanish...why because some public schools do not require a SS # so you have tons off illegals getting a free education for their kids when the poverty American has to pay taxes and follow the rules. You state you would hire these illegals and that is the main problem...they work for cheaper and since they do not have to report a W2 (taxes) nobody knows they are paid under minimum wage; therefore of course they will work and employers would hire them to save a buck....it is why Union and long term workers are scarce now. If you don't see how this is taking jobs away from Americans then go look at the un-employment rate...oh right all these people just are not as persistent as you I guess.

As for your last question....it is quite obvious you did not even read the links I posted because your questions were answered by the study. You obviously are not getting that all people do not have the same opportunities and I have given you facts of childhood development and the impact on a environment of a growing child. So yeah again be lucky you had the past you did, but you need to stop acting like you had the same opportunity as a child in poor parts of India and realize how fortunate you are you were raised well

Have you heard of pay roll taxes? Have you heard of sales tax? There are no off the books workers on the projects I am on. You might have completely undocumented workers that aren't paying any kind of tax and are paid cash under the table, but where I am at, you can't get a job without proper documentation. Wether that documentation is valid or not, I can't say, but taxes still come out of every pay check they get. They might not be filing tax returns, but that really isn't a huge deal to me since 43% of Americans pay zero Federal income tax. Claiming illegals pay not tax is kind pointless because a lot of citizens in this country don't either. Including the wonderful Rev. Al Sharpton.

Here is backup for you: http://www.businessinsider.com/43-of-americans-dont-pay-federal-income-tax-2013-9

More backup:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/19/politics/al-sharpton-finance/index.html

bulldog
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 04:42 PM
Have you heard of pay roll taxes? Have you heard of sales tax? There are no off the books workers on the projects I am on. You might have completely undocumented workers that aren't paying any kind of tax and are paid cash under the table, but where I am at, you can't get a job without proper documentation. Wether that documentation is valid or not, I can't say, but taxes still come out of every pay check they get. They might not be filing tax returns, but that really isn't a huge deal to me since 43% of Americans pay zero Federal income tax. Claiming illegals pay not tax is kind pointless because a lot of citizens in this country don't either. Including the wonderful Rev. Al Sharpton.

Here is backup for you: http://www.businessinsider.com/43-of-americans-dont-pay-federal-income-tax-2013-9

More backup:
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/19/politics/al-sharpton-finance/index.htmlIf that makes you feel better for hiring illegal immigrants, than more power to you. You should be proud to be a American! Obviously if they are documented they are most likely not illegals so that is a different thing. Although it is not hard to run a report to see if documents are real.



Well I am out to the gym...it has been fun. You still lifting Jkol? Ever get that rotator cuffs healed we talked about?

Tiutis
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 07:14 PM
Here is another that has figured it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo




Some people get it, like these guys: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. For those that continue making excuses, the cycle will continue unbroken.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDxgJq4toYo)

birchyboy
Thu Dec 4th, 2014, 07:26 PM
This is loosely related to Ferguson, according to the article. It gives some insight into what municipalities have received from the DOD for surplus equipment:

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/dec/04/pentagon-finally-details-its-weapons-cops-giveaway/

My little city of Aurora, CO has received the following:

Item Quantity Total Value
MINE RESISTANT VEHICLE 1 $412,000.00
RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 126 $62,874.00
SHIELD,PERSONAL PROTECTIVE 74 $7,030.00
RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER 25 $3,450.00
INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT 12 $620.00

An even smaller town, Florence, has received almost $3.7M in equipment, including a mine-resistant and two tactical vehicles. The scofflaws in Canon City better keep themselves in line.


What about yours?

FZRguy
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 03:00 AM
You can't fix this kind of ignorance.

Kinda hard to get a job and pull yourself out of that shit hole when you can't put two sentences together. Doubtful the gentleman in the red bandana can read or write at a 9th grade level.

JKOL
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 07:39 AM
If that makes you feel better for hiring illegal immigrants, than more power to you. You should be proud to be a American! Obviously if they are documented they are most likely not illegals so that is a different thing. Although it is not hard to run a report to see if documents are real.



Well I am out to the gym...it has been fun. You still lifting Jkol? Ever get that rotator cuffs healed we talked about?

My company doesn't hire illegals as we are the General contractor, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a guy working for a framing sub-contractor that has a SSN but can't speak a single word of English let alone write his name probably didn't pass a citizenship exam. I will be the first to tell you I think immigration is completely screwed and illegal immigration is a major issue because it isn't the undocumented workers getting across that scare me as much as the terrorist assholes that can slip in just as easily. At the same time I tell you illegal immigrants are willing to work, and yes they are taking jobs, but the jobs in my industry they are taking don't exactly have a waiting list of white/black American workers, so somebody has to fill them or else the construction industry in Denver, and many other cities will grind to a halt.

In other news, I haven't lifted in a while. Moved to Evergreen last spring and with the longer commute and increased work hours, I am failing at finding time. The rotator cuff hasn't bothered me for awhile, before I quit working out I was able to bench press 110lb dumbbells, shoulder press straight over my head is a different story, that hurts if I get much over 50lbs per arm.

A friend recommended trying to Tom Hardy workout he did to prep for Warrior.http://www.menshealth.co.uk/building-muscle/fast/tom-hardys-warrior-workout Multiple quick 20 minute workouts throughout the day instead of one longer session. Might give it a try because I can find a way to carve 20 minutes out a few times a day without messing up my schedule.

And I think we have successfully derailed this topic. :lol:

JKOL
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 07:47 AM
This is loosely related to Ferguson, according to the article. It gives some insight into what municipalities have received from the DOD for surplus equipment:

https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2014/dec/04/pentagon-finally-details-its-weapons-cops-giveaway/

My little city of Aurora, CO has received the following:

Item Quantity Total Value
MINE RESISTANT VEHICLE 1 $412,000.00
RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 126 $62,874.00
SHIELD,PERSONAL PROTECTIVE 74 $7,030.00
RIFLE,7.62 MILLIMETER 25 $3,450.00
INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT 12 $620.00

An even smaller town, Florence, has received almost $3.7M in equipment, including a mine-resistant and two tactical vehicles. The scofflaws in Canon City better keep themselves in line.


What about yours?

This an entirely different can of worms and it is indeed troublesome to me. There are plenty of good officers, I have met Aaron a couple times and he seems like a good dude, but since I haven't been pulled over by him I can't comment about him as an officer, but based on his demeanor when not in uniform, I have to think he is a good cop as well. The troubling thing is there seem to be more and more "people didn't respect me in high school so I got a badge and they better respect me now or else." It is those guys that worry me, and giving those weekend warrior wanna be SEALs cops military grade equipment is borderline reckless. I am all for officers having everything they need to get home to their families and loved ones safely after a shift, but why the hell does a police department need an armored personnel carrier?

bulldog
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 08:03 AM
My company doesn't hire illegals as we are the General contractor, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a guy working for a framing sub-contractor that has a SSN but can't speak a single word of English let alone write his name probably didn't pass a citizenship exam. I will be the first to tell you I think immigration is completely screwed and illegal immigration is a major issue because it isn't the undocumented workers getting across that scare me as much as the terrorist assholes that can slip in just as easily. At the same time I tell you illegal immigrants are willing to work, and yes they are taking jobs, but the jobs in my industry they are taking don't exactly have a waiting list of white/black American workers, so somebody has to fill them or else the construction industry in Denver, and many other cities will grind to a halt.

In other news, I haven't lifted in a while. Moved to Evergreen last spring and with the longer commute and increased work hours, I am failing at finding time. The rotator cuff hasn't bothered me for awhile, before I quit working out I was able to bench press 110lb dumbbells, shoulder press straight over my head is a different story, that hurts if I get much over 50lbs per arm.

A friend recommended trying to Tom Hardy workout he did to prep for Warrior.http://www.menshealth.co.uk/building-muscle/fast/tom-hardys-warrior-workout Multiple quick 20 minute workouts throughout the day instead of one longer session. Might give it a try because I can find a way to carve 20 minutes out a few times a day without messing up my schedule.

And I think we have successfully derailed this topic. :lol: I tend to derail topics....mainly because I come on here and see no activity so got to get people talking if not it is such a boarding board. :lol:

Believe me I get what you mean man and I have seen how hard immigrants will work and it is sad when they out perform a American who gets the same job. Some Americans are not what we used to be; hard working people. Now I see more people trying to get on welfare than have to work. I've worked for Medicaid and the situations I see are pretty bad; single mom that has 8 kids and keeps having more. Sure she needs help, but dang at what point should the decision to stop having kids comes up....can't even mention that because of "religious beliefs" of the members. Just seems like it is a cycle because these kids learn wrong from their parents...so basically I was just meaning these people are jacked, but I bet they were just raised that way and we should be happy we were not. I've seen some ghetto ass people from every race so not even a issue of that....just horrible lazy people/ I do think there are Americans that want to work though and just have obstacles and those are the ones that I feel bad for.


Nice, yeah I finally rehabed my rotator cuffs after tearing them. We talked about it a long time ago, think you did yours from baseball, but I had to take a year off of bench press because of it. Slowly just kept at it and now I am back to normal; although my straight bench press is still lacking. I am back to getting about 275 up safely without feeling like my rotator was going to give......took years to get back to it.....horrible injury. Almost as bad as the knee injury I have had the last 6 months....knees take so long to heal.

Nice, I'll check that workout out. Warrior was one of my favorite movies and he had giant trapezoids in that movie and really blew up from his previous roles. Found this video of it too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKfqrzovecQ

JKOL
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 09:55 AM
I tend to derail topics....mainly because I come on here and see no activity so got to get people talking if not it is such a boarding board. :lol:

Believe me I get what you mean man and I have seen how hard immigrants will work and it is sad when they out perform a American who gets the same job. Some Americans are not what we used to be; hard working people. Now I see more people trying to get on welfare than have to work. I've worked for Medicaid and the situations I see are pretty bad; single mom that has 8 kids and keeps having more. Sure she needs help, but dang at what point should the decision to stop having kids comes up....can't even mention that because of "religious beliefs" of the members. Just seems like it is a cycle because these kids learn wrong from their parents...so basically I was just meaning these people are jacked, but I bet they were just raised that way and we should be happy we were not. I've seen some ghetto ass people from every race so not even a issue of that....just horrible lazy people/ I do think there are Americans that want to work though and just have obstacles and those are the ones that I feel bad for.


Nice, yeah I finally rehabed my rotator cuffs after tearing them. We talked about it a long time ago, think you did yours from baseball, but I had to take a year off of bench press because of it. Slowly just kept at it and now I am back to normal; although my straight bench press is still lacking. I am back to getting about 275 up safely without feeling like my rotator was going to give......took years to get back to it.....horrible injury. Almost as bad as the knee injury I have had the last 6 months....knees take so long to heal.

Nice, I'll check that workout out. Warrior was one of my favorite movies and he had giant trapezoids in that movie and really blew up from his previous roles. Found this video of it too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKfqrzovecQ

My opinions on immigration have changed over the last 5 years due to my career because like I said earlier, there is no line of black/white workers trying to get these jobs. When I hear someone complain "they are taking our jobs," I call BS, they aren't taking them, you aren't even trying to get the jobs.

I get that a guy running a small landscape company can't compete with another company across town paying below minimum wage, but that is a different level than my industry. If we build government projects for example, there a Davis Bacon wage rates that specify minimum wages by trade, and most of the time, the subs are paying their guys above those wage rates. The booming oil business in CO, SD, and ND has all forced wages in my industry up because a lot of laborers are bailing to go take jobs starting at $100k a year. On top of that, with how busy construction is everyone is paying well because if they don't, the guy across town paying a framer $20/hr instead of $17/hr is going to have every framer in town trying to get on with him.

Your example of the mom with 8 kids receiving govt support makes me crazy. I can't begin to imagine how frustrating that must be to work with first hand. My thought is if you can't feed'em don't breed'em. How hard is that? I am with you that people need a hand, but having even 2 kids when you can't even feed yourself is grossly irresponsible. I figured out early on, diapers cost a lot more than condoms.

You are right, it is far easier for some to just collect welfare checks than to try to find work that might actually require some hard work or effort. Unfortunately I only see that getting worse, not better. I agree that lazy and stupid are traits that are colorblind, plenty of lazy, stupid, and worthless people of all colors. I am glad I was raised to give an F.

Good memory, pitching caused my rotator cuff problem. Fortunately it is only in a very specific range of motion so I can do most anything in the gym aside from heavy shoulder press. For example, I could press 155-175lbs no problem, but I couldn't even lift it off the rack because the slightly backward angle to reach the bar behind my head on the rack put my shoulder in the zero power/lots of discomfort/sometimes pain range. Once a spotter got the weight of the rack and it was closer to inline with my shoulders or in front of my head for front shoulder press I was good to go.

When I first looked at the Warrior workout I was thinking this won't be too bad, then I hit the BRIDGE stages 1-5 and realized that will take some time to pull off safely.

#1Townie
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 11:04 AM
Fuck that argument about getting out. I'm speaking from the aspect of being expelled twice. Hooked on drugs at 15. Was in a gang. Sold drugs until my early twenties.

While I am not proud of my past it is there. The hardest part about getting out and STAYING out is just making good decisions. Period.

You can dwell on what you don't have or work on getting what you want. Simple.

Starts with good decisions. Not ignoring that voice in your head that says I wouldn't do that.

#1Townie
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 11:06 AM
As for illigals... Fuck them too.

JKOL
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 11:24 AM
Fuck that argument about getting out. I'm speaking from the aspect of being expelled twice. Hooked on drugs at 15. Was in a gang. Sold drugs until my early twenties.

While I am not proud of my past it is there. The hardest part about getting out and STAYING out is just making good decisions. Period.

You can dwell on what you don't have or work on getting what you want. Simple.

Starts with good decisions. Not ignoring that voice in your head that says I wouldn't do that.

Damn Townie, not that you need my approval but respect for overcoming and finding a better path.

In other news: Based on what is currently known, two witnesses told the officer 2 people were dealing drugs in a vehicle, the officer approached the vehicle, the suspected drug dealer decides to not follow an officer's orders, ends up running and the getting into a fight with the officer. Drug dealer ends up dead, drugs found on dealer and gun found in his car. Big Fing surprise. Here comes the kicker, the cop is white and the drug dealer is black so get ready for more fun.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/phoenix-police-officer-shoots-dead-unarmed-black-man-during-scuffle/ar-BBglk7F

I have been stopped by cops quite a few times in my life, I have been disrespectful zero times, I have acted in a questionable manner zero times, and I have fought with them zero times. I am lucky to have survived my confrontation with the blood thirsty cops roaming the streets.

#1Townie
Fri Dec 5th, 2014, 03:06 PM
Oh I'm leaving out more. Just the tip of the iceberg. I spent most of my life ducking cops. There is a time and place to fight cops. The street is never the place. Ever. Just asking to get killed.

And honestly color doesn't matter. I'm white. Cops know whos fucking around. End of story. Hell after I moved back into my old neighborhood I got into a little situation with weirdo that "would beat my ass".

Well he ended up calling the cops and the first thing they did was hit me up on my background. Was I still active. Where I had been for the last ten years. Fishing for info.

Its their job and a long time ago I was their suspect. I can see how the job of a officer can get tough when they know who's doing stuff but can't do anything because they have no evidence.

I am not advocating that any of these cops are Angeles. Or that the suspects were thugs. All I'm saying is if you want to take up a fight and burn down your neighborhood try finding better reasons. They are out there.

Hell there is a video of a guy in handcuffs with two cops and a little struggle happens. One cop shoots the suspect. Now that is your case. That I would have been able to understand.

But no they had to use this case. Lies. He was suspected of committing a felony THAT DAY! Evidence shows that something took place in the cops car.

Just too much to ignore to fight for him. So fuck him.

The part that I'm truly getting tired of is this feeling sorry for people. Fuck that. I have no idea how many lives I ruined. Just for selling something they wanted. People I hurt collecting debts or just because they walked down the wrong street on the wrong night.

These are just a few things that I live with. Everyday. I have plenty of friends who have decided to better themselves. I have a bunch who decided not to. Either prison or hooked on drugs. I even have a bunch that decided to end their own lives. A few murdered.

But at the end of the day its up to you and I to hold OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE for our own ACTIONS.

#1Townie
Mon Dec 8th, 2014, 09:19 PM
Sorry I took that a little far. My original point is that while it isn't easy its very doable. Nothing in life is easy. NOTHING!

I never went back to school but would any of you talk about how easy it was to get your degrees and land a good job? Would any of you talk about how easy it is to balance your budgets and manage your portfolios?

Different lives have different problems.

For the longest time I hate people who went to college. I hated people who had these office jobs with good benefits. Now that I have let go of some of my anger and branched out into the world I have learned that we all have our problems.

Each problem we face we do our best to make the right decisions. That's the problem with this mess. There is no thinking.

The people rioting aren't thinking about what they are doing to their own neighborhoods. What they might be doing to their own economic future.

Heard some very interesting reports on what happened after the Watts riots. Took a very very long to get people to invest in that area again.

Again if the people who really want to start this fight would have just picked a better example of police brutality it would have got them a little credit.

Not to mention the fight they want to fight isn't about race, its about class. The lower classes are the high risk crime areas. Doesn't matter about color. Well unless you're talking about green. That's the only color that matters anymore. At all.

bulldog
Tue Dec 9th, 2014, 08:37 AM
Oh I'm leaving out more. Just the tip of the iceberg. I spent most of my life ducking cops. There is a time and place to fight cops. The street is never the place. Ever. Just asking to get killed.

And honestly color doesn't matter. I'm white. Cops know whos fucking around. End of story. Hell after I moved back into my old neighborhood I got into a little situation with weirdo that "would beat my ass".

Well he ended up calling the cops and the first thing they did was hit me up on my background. Was I still active. Where I had been for the last ten years. Fishing for info.

Its their job and a long time ago I was their suspect. I can see how the job of a officer can get tough when they know who's doing stuff but can't do anything because they have no evidence.

I am not advocating that any of these cops are Angeles. Or that the suspects were thugs. All I'm saying is if you want to take up a fight and burn down your neighborhood try finding better reasons. They are out there.

Hell there is a video of a guy in handcuffs with two cops and a little struggle happens. One cop shoots the suspect. Now that is your case. That I would have been able to understand.

But no they had to use this case. Lies. He was suspected of committing a felony THAT DAY! Evidence shows that something took place in the cops car.

Just too much to ignore to fight for him. So fuck him.

The part that I'm truly getting tired of is this feeling sorry for people. Fuck that. I have no idea how many lives I ruined. Just for selling something they wanted. People I hurt collecting debts or just because they walked down the wrong street on the wrong night.

These are just a few things that I live with. Everyday. I have plenty of friends who have decided to better themselves. I have a bunch who decided not to. Either prison or hooked on drugs. I even have a bunch that decided to end their own lives. A few murdered.

But at the end of the day its up to you and I to hold OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE for our own ACTIONS. Dang Townie....lol....jk....I totally get where you are coming from; you and I seem to have had similar childhoods where it was not all that easy. Same with you I have had so many friends go down the wrong path and most are in prison or dead now. I've had to experience friends commit suicide; one day they are there and the next they are gone. First friend who committed suicide happened in grade 4th grade; one of my best friends decided to end his life at that young age. Heck I've witnessed my own father (who I was not raised by) try to commit suicide and I am the one that had to knock the door down and stop it. Stepmother I knew for over 20 years shot herself in the head.

Oh yeah, my High School had a 50% drop out rate; 1400 came in as freshman and less than 700 graduated….none of my friends graduated with me!

I've also had a lot of negative issues with cops my entire life and have also been the guy that seems to be labeled. At age 17 I saw one of my best friends get put into ICU by 6 police officers; they planted drugs on him (yes I am 100% as I was with the guy 1 min before this happened and he had no drugs). So they planted the drugs and when he got upset they beat him down: now not saying he didn't get lippy, but I saw it happened and they brought out the batons and continued to beat him when it was no longer needed.

My family owned some land we have had in the family for over 100 years that is worth a lot now and surrounded by million dollar houses. Weekly I was stopped by cops when I went to visit my grandma there; some even told me I didn’t belong and that is why I was pulled over. I normally had to call my grandma to vouch why I was in that area; yet I was doing nothing wrong but visiting my grandma……why was I labeled….of course because I was a young Hispanic guy in the rich part of town….but tell me as a teenager how was I supposed to view police officers when that is the most interaction I had with them. So yeah I wish I could say everyone has had great experiences with police officers, but the reality is these bad cops have made some people nervous about police officers because some are bad and I am sure this is where a lot of this comes from now……sad to say but some people are afraid of cops more than they feel they can help them. Only in the last 10 years have I seen that there are good cops; but it is sad to think most my life I thought of cops as bad guys and just another bully “gang” in my town. Actually a few cops on this site have been the ones to make me see there are good ones……just sucks a few bad ones can ruin it for a lot of people.

As for drugs….when a guy that has a pound of marijuana gets 30 years and a murder conviction is like 10 years then I really wonder where this thinking comes from. People are going to do drugs if they really want to, so I see less crime in that than murder. So instead lets clog up our prison system for drug addicts when murders and rapists get a shorter sentence because of it….makes no sense to me and puts out the impression that murder isn’t that big a deal....the truth is murder hurts the family all the way down the line and the pain does not stop at the person murdered.

Grim2.0
Tue Dec 9th, 2014, 04:43 PM
1. Great thread i enjoyed reading everything

2. EZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYY called it riots--riots everywhere

3. pretty damn sure I am the only one here that has actually met townie and know he is real and not a sophisticated troll bot.

TFOGGuys
Tue Dec 9th, 2014, 05:14 PM
3. pretty damn sure I am the only one here that has actually met townie and know he is real and not a sophisticated troll bot.

Any reason why he can't be both?

#1Townie
Tue Dec 9th, 2014, 05:57 PM
Na there's a few on here that I have met. Some I still talk to. Some I don't. Fun part is I don't tell people who I know.

But barn and I have shared a beer before. About ten years ago. Lol.

Yeah and why can't I be both? I've watched the trolling.... For the most part. Lol!!

My most epic troll involves a semi filled with a bunch of people and one of those border patrol checkpoints. That will be fun if I can ever pull that off.

Ezzzzy1
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 01:27 AM
I gotta say, Townie. The things that you have been saying lately have really started to turn me on :eyebrows::leghump:

Aaand spelling is at an all time high :lol: Whats gotten into you?

bulldog
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 07:39 AM
1. Great thread i enjoyed reading everything

2. EZZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYY called it riots--riots everywhere

3. pretty damn sure I am the only one here that has actually met townie and know he is real and not a sophisticated troll bot. Nice to hear from you man! You still doing the bodybuilding shows? Nobody wants to talk weightlifting with me so come back! :D

Keep in touch on text if not!

Clovis
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 11:43 AM
I'm a little late to the party but I've been following this thread since the beginning.

I showed my wife that video JKOL posted with the guy interviewing 'protesters' in Ferguson and it ended up causing an arguement =P

Thanks a lot JKOL!

For what it's worth, a lot of the protesters turned looters are people from outside of Ferguson. With that said it seems obvious is the looters were simply there as an opportunity to behave like animals.

Grim2.0
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 11:45 AM
Nice to hear from you man! You still doing the bodybuilding shows? Nobody wants to talk weightlifting with me so come back! :D

Keep in touch on text if not!

:lol: I am on a "holiday break" right now the show really took its toll on me mentally and physically, I have gradually slipped back into the dietary restrictions and lifting heavy but i haven't been hardcore for the last 2-3 months, i am still pretty lean though havent gained much fat but haven't gained any muscle either. The mentality toll it takes is nothing short from shocking when you look from the outside in and see the aftermath...its disturbing.

The Black Knight
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 12:24 PM
This should help you recuperate some of that mental fatigue and anguish :D

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/Stuff/Kim_Christiansen2_zpsb768787c.jpg

Grim2.0
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 01:11 PM
^^^ Dick

bulldog
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 01:55 PM
I am on a "holiday break" right now the show really took its toll on me mentally and physically, I have gradually slipped back into the dietary restrictions and lifting heavy but i haven't been hardcore for the last 2-3 months, i am still pretty lean though havent gained much fat but haven't gained any muscle either. The mentality toll it takes is nothing short from shocking when you look from the outside in and see the aftermath...its disturbing. Oh yeah it is rough; why I have never been able to do it. I think the issue is the brain is about 75% water so when you lean out and dehydrate, your brain is also being affected. Just sucks because this is the only way to do it to compete so there really is no other option; even the most lean guys has to cut for competitions!

I am still going strong…..5 days a week. I haven’t seen you in a long time but I am sure the difference would be noticeable. I’ve been working more on just enjoying and maintaining rather than trying to get bigger. I feel like I have leaned out a bit and the funny part is my workout buddies say I look bigger, yet I weigh less. Now I just try to lift to last another day…elbows and tendons took too much a beating over the years from lifting super heavy. I still try to do at least one rep of 85%+ of my max; in hopes to still build a bit.

#1Townie
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 02:29 PM
I'm a little late to the party but I've been following this thread since the beginning.

I showed my wife that video JKOL posted with the guy interviewing 'protesters' in Ferguson and it ended up causing an arguement =P

Thanks a lot JKOL!

For what it's worth, a lot of the protesters turned looters are people from outside of Ferguson. With that said it seems obvious is the looters were simply there as an opportunity to behave like animals.


No no no. No point in arguing with your wife. Just should have said this is my point of view and I'm not trying to change yours and moved on.

But I'm not really sure how you can argue that video. I mean... To compare yourself with Jews.... Not really cool. Hey remember world war 2? Not all that long ago?

#1Townie
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 02:30 PM
This should help you recuperate some of that mental fatigue and anguish :D

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/Stuff/Kim_Christiansen2_zpsb768787c.jpg


There she is... Ohhhh fuck yeah.

Clovis
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 02:48 PM
She hypothisized that they probably interviewed a lot of people but only showed the most extreme to fit a certain narative.

So presumably there were some "good" protesters/looters...? Who knows!


No no no. No point in arguing with your wife. Just should have said this is my point of view and I'm not trying to change yours and moved on.

But I'm not really sure how you can argue that video. I mean... To compare yourself with Jews.... Not really cool. Hey remember world war 2? Not all that long ago?

bulldog
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 03:06 PM
She hypothisized that they probably interviewed a lot of people but only showed the most extreme to fit a certain narative.

So presumably there were some "good" protesters/looters...? Who knows! I could see that as a valid point....the media is jacked like that. Look at some of the Marijuana Rallies here; so many went off with no violence, but the one time a person got shot here it was all over the news. Yet there were thousands of peaceful people in those rally's for many years prior (420 Rallies)....I know because I have been to them here in Denver and Boulder!

I do hope there are some "smart" protesters out there for this. I know they have been going on nationwide so I am sure some percentage are not the wild looters....those people are just dumb and ruining their cities property and don't get they are doing little to help the cause. Media usually goes with the negative though....unfortunately they have proved more people watch when it is that way. You put "good" things on the news and most humans want to see drama!

#1Townie
Wed Dec 10th, 2014, 04:00 PM
That's just media as a whole. Look at what we are looking at right now! Every single case of a black guy being shot by a white guy is being reported nationwide.

Now let's just sit and think about that for a second.

bulldog
Thu Dec 11th, 2014, 08:56 AM
That's just media as a whole. Look at what we are looking at right now! Every single case of a black guy being shot by a white guy is being reported nationwide.

Now let's just sit and think about that for a second. I agree 100%! My statement was not based on race at all........seen it both ways.

Growing up in NM I had a cousin who was half Hispanic, but had blonde hair and blue eyes. I'd take him to HS parties with me and the Hispanic guys would not allow him in saying "he is a narc"….of course because he looked Anglo. Wasn't till I moved to Denver that I saw the other side of racism since the Hispanic population is not the majority here like it is in NM. I totally get it works the other way around too!

P.S. I have got three people fired over racism towards me here in Denver. One told me to go back to Mexico if I was going to speak Spanish (I am not fluent in Spanish at all and was born here and am actually a Spaniard). Another co-worker accused me of stealing her lunch and said "you look here you little spic, you ever touch my lunch again I will kill you (I did not take her lunch and she actually went to HR on me over this and when she admitted to her racist comments she was let go). A employee at a Walgreens argued with me over sale once and then went off how "you are from Mexico and I am from USA so I think I know Math better (again others heard him and came to my defense and he was fired....I was born here and so were my parents and last 4-5 generations)

#1Townie
Tue May 19th, 2015, 10:51 PM
What in the flying fuck are you talking about? Dude white people were the first slaves in this fucking country!! Also they were cheaper. So being cheaper they were treated worse.

Get the fuck out of here. What about the Jews? Holy shit man there has never been another people so abused in history.

I'm sorry man you need to truly do some history.

Found one.