17 Year old Shot and Killed BY Denver Officers

[bulldog]

Well a case hit right here in our backyard and may be a topic to discuss (Zimmerman and Brown were good topics):

Denver cops asked teens to get out of car before fatal shooting (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27412773/denver-police-id-officers-fatal-shooting-unarmed-teen) <-click
Moments before opening fire on a car full of teenagers, two Denver police officers asked several times for those inside to get out after learning the car had been reported stolen, Police Chief Robert White said Wednesday.
"At some point, the original officer that responded to the scene, the vehicle started driving toward him, which pretty much had him between a car and a brick wall and a fence," White said in an interview with The Denver Post. "Out of fear for his safety, he fired several shots and the other officer also fired several shots."


White offered a few more details, which he described as preliminary, about Monday's fatal shooting of 17-year-old Jessica Hernandez (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27394478/denver-police-shoot-2-suspects-critically-injuring-one?source=pkg) in an alley in the Park Hill neighborhood. She was driving the car and died of multiple gunshots after officers opened fire. Hernandez and the other occupants of the car did not have weapons, White said.
White also said he has opened an internal review into cases where officers fired their weapons at moving vehicles, saying it is not a practice the department advocates.
"It has to be in the most extreme circumstances," White said.
Monday's shooting was the fourth time in seven months that Denver police have shot drivers after officers said a car was being used as a weapon.
White also identified the two officers involved in the shooting as Daniel Greene, who has been at the department for 16 years, and Gabriel Jordan, who has been on the force for nine years.
Jordan's leg was fractured during Monday's incident, White said.


reene and Jordan are patrol officers in District 2. Both have had minor disciplinary issues since they were hired, and both have multiple commendations for their actions as police officers, according to records obtained by The Post.
The officers have been placed on administrative leave, pending a criminal investigation being conducted by Denver District Attorney Mitch Morrissey. The police department also will conduct an internal review of the incident to determine whether any policies were violated.
Jordan was the first officer on the scene around 6:30 a.m. Monday after police received a call about a suspicious vehicle. He ran the car's license plate number and learned the Honda sedan had been reported stolen, White said.
White said he can't make a judgment on whether his officers acted appropriately in shooting Hernandez until all of the criminal and internal investigations are complete.
"Like I said the morning of the incident, there are a lot of unanswered questions," he said.
The parent of one teen who was in the car told The Post that her daughter reported that the officer was not hit until after shots were fired and Hernandez lost control of the vehicle because she had been struck by a bullet.
White said that may not be an accurate account.
"The investigation will show exactly what happened," he said. "Let's wait and see what happens in the investigation."
None of the four other teens in the car were injured, and they were not charged with any crimes in connection with the stolen car or events in the alley, White said.
The chief said he was sorry for the Hernandez family's loss.
"In a loss of life, no matter what the circumstances are, I'm empathetic and sympathetic," he said.
Hernandez's family said they have requested an independent autopsy and toxicology test. The grieving family participated Tuesday night in a candlelight vigil at a park in Thornton, where they live.
White decided to review his department's procedures on moving vehicles after discussing the issue with Stephanie O'Malley, the executive director of the Denver Department of Public Safety.
On Tuesday, Independent Monitor Nick Mitchell said his office also would conduct an evaluation of the police (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27401430/community-leaders-march-justice-after-teen-girl-was)department's policies, procedures and training on shooting at moving vehicles. He also said he would compare the department to others around the country.
In the four shootings at moving vehicles, two suspects were killed and three were injured. At least three officers also have suffered injuries in the incidents.
In the department's use-of-force policy, officers are discouraged from shooting at moving vehicles unless the auto poses a threat of death or serious injury and when there is no reasonable alternative that would prevent serious injury or death.
"Firing at a moving vehicle may have very little impact on stopping the vehicle," the policy says. "Disabling the driver may result in an uncontrolled vehicle, and the likelihood of injury to the occupants of the vehicle (who may not be involved in the crime) may be increased when the vehicle is either out of control or shots are fired into the passenger compartment."
White said he wants to know how many of those situations have happened in the past couple of years. He wants to analyze those shootings to see how his officers acted when responding to the calls and whether they could have used different tactics.
He also said he will look to other departments for ideas.
"We don't always have all of the answers," he said.
Nationally, police departments for years have considered cars to be deadly weapons when they are driven toward officers, said Geoff Alpert, a University of South Carolina professor who studies use of force.
"Officers seeing a car hit one of their fellow officers is going to justify deadly force," Alpert said.
And, he said, the driver's intent doesn't matter once that happens.
But there is a changing philosophy among policing experts to prohibit officers from shooting at moving vehicles.
In April, the U.S. Department of Justice recommended the Albuquerque Police Department change its use-of-force policy to prohibit officers from firing at moving vehicles, according to its letter to the city after an investigation into the department.
In 2011, the Police Executive Research Forum also recommended that the Albuquerque department change its policy, saying the practice put officers and citizens at a higher risk of harm.
The police research group, a nonprofit that researches police tactics and recommends policies, also has advised other law enforcement agencies against shooting at moving vehicles.
In a February 2013 review of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, the police research forum recommended a change, saying: "A moving vehicle in and of itself is not a presumed threat that justifies the use of deadly force. Firing at or from a moving vehicle is rarely effective and presents extreme danger to agents and innocent persons."
Noelle Phillips: 303-954-1661, nphillips@ denverpost.com or twitter.com/Noelle_Phillips
The Denver Police Department use-of-force policy for moving vehicles
Moving vehicles
a. Firing at moving vehicles: Firing at a moving vehicle may have very little impact on stopping the vehicle. Disabling the driver may result in an uncontrolled vehicle, and the likelihood of injury to occupants of the vehicle (who may not be involved in the crime) may be increased when the vehicle is either out of control or shots are fired into the passenger compartment. An officer threatened by an oncoming vehicle shall, if feasible, move out of the way rather than discharging a firearm. Officer(s) shall not discharge a firearm at a moving vehicle or its occupant(s) in response to a threat posed solely by the vehicle unless the officer has an objectively reasonable belief that:
1. The vehicle or suspect poses an immediate threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or another person and
2. The officer has no reasonable alternative course of action to prevent death or serious physical injury.
b. Firing from a moving vehicle: Accuracy may be severely impacted when firing from a moving vehicle, and firing from a moving vehicle may increase the risk of harm to officers or other citizens. Officers should not fire from a moving vehicle except in self defense or defense of another from what the officer reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force.
(6) Above all, the safety of the public and the officer must be the overriding concern when the use of force is considered.

[bulldog]

Protests have already began: About 200 people attend Jessica Hernandez protest at District 2 police station in Denver (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_27415895/about-200-people-attend-jessica-hernandez-protest-at-district-2-police-station-denver) <-click

Witness account states Jessica was fired upon before hitting the cop with the car. States she did drive away (in a stolen car) but that is when the cops opened fire and after she was shot is when the vehicle hit the officers. We will see how this goes down Witness to cop shooting tells her story (http://www.9news.com/story/news/local/investigations/2015/01/28/witness-to-cop-shooting-tells-her-story/22449579/) <-click

[The Black Knight]

I don't get it, so are we supposed to feel sorry for people who break the law now???

So let me get this straight. Cops found out the vehicle they were in was stolen. Cops ask the group of people to exit the vehicle. They refuse and then all hell breaks loose.

Hmmmm play stupid games, win stupid prizes....


I know, I know!! If cops didn't have guns, then people wouldn't die from them while breaking the law.

Moral of the story here: it's the gun's fault...

[#1Townie]

Yeah a little too early to say one way or the other. I can say if the car started moving at the cop its time to let a few fly. And it does sound as if both sides agree the car started to move and then the cop shot.

[bulldog]

I don't get it, so are we supposed to feel sorry for people who break the law now???

So let me get this straight. Cops found out the vehicle they were in was stolen. Cops ask the group of people to exit the vehicle. They refuse and then all hell breaks loose.

Hmmmm play stupid games, win stupid prizes....


I know, I know!! If cops didn't have guns, then people wouldn't die from them while breaking the law.

Moral of the story here: it's the gun's fault... I guess if you feel shooting into a car of teenagers for stealing a car is valid???? :dunno: I do not!!! Yes teenager stole a car, but you know how many cars are stolen daily and people are caught without being killed. Sounds like you are saying if you break the law you deserve to be shot. Pretty sure that is not how they are trained.


Yeah a little too early to say one way or the other. I can say if the car started moving at the cop its time to let a few fly. And it does sound as if both sides agree the car started to move and then the cop shot. Exactly! We do not know the details yet to really know. Just reporting that people are already protesting it and case is in investigation. I agree if she really tried to hit the cop with a car then the officer had a right to shot, but if what the witness states is true the officer shot only because they would not get out of car

[Captain Obvious]

Exactly! We do not know the details yet to really know. Just reporting that people are already protesting it and case is in investigation. I agree if she really tried to hit the cop with a car then the officer had a right to shot, but if what the witness states is true the officer shot only because they would not get out of car

So the witness was a friend inside the car participating in an illegal joyride.

I don't read "cops can shoot if you don't listen" from Black Ks post. Between the lines, he is saying all hell breaks loose, which includes the alleged felon driving a 2,000 weapon apparently in the direction of an officer.

But it sounds like Jessica was playing adult games with adult consequences. Apparently her parents are already in "she was a good kid and didn't deserve this mode".

Protest have begun..... so what. Many people have nothing better to do that bitch and moan and create crazy scenarios that could of would of should of happened.

[bulldog]

So the witness was a friend inside the car participating in an illegal joyride.

I don't read "cops can shoot if you don't listen" from Black Ks post. Between the lines, he is saying all hell breaks loose, which includes the alleged felon driving a 2,000 weapon apparently in the direction of an officer.

But it sounds like Jessica was playing adult games with adult consequences. Apparently her parents are already in "she was a good kid and didn't deserve this mode".

Protest have begun..... so what. Many people have nothing better to do that bitch and moan and create crazy scenarios that could of would of should of happened. Yes the witness was in the car and part of this. Not sure how it works, but I thought in those cases they do allow her as a witness??? I am sure they are trying to find out if she is lying though and hopefully can break a teenager if she is.

A 2000 weapon? So why not shot every person pulled over for DUI...same deadly weapon right! :lol: Again not sure if she actually tried to hit the cop and that would change things. I just love how people go to a car as a weapon...sure it can be one, but we all drive 700lbs missiles too and 99% of us have sped....and quite a few on this board have got DUI's on a sportbike. As Black Knight said "Hmmmm play stupid games, win stupid prizes...." so where does that line be drawn? Prize going to jail and having a trail seems better than the prize of shot dead and game over.....swore that was a police officers job and not a executioner at their judgement.

I have actually read she was not a good kid and had a record already. Still don't think cops use the best judgement at times. Why numerous shots to kill and to shot into a car with other teenagers in it that were not driving :dunno:

Well I am sure a lot of those protesters would disagree with you and feel they have a valid reason to protest. Many people have not understood protests for many years, but that does not mean others do no believe in their cause.....look it up.

[Captain Obvious]

quote copy paste too much of a PITA. inline.


Yes the witness was in the car and part of this. Not sure how it works, but I thought in those cases they do allow her as a witness??? I am sure they are trying to find out if she is lying though and hopefully can break a teenager if she is.

A 2000 weapon? So why not shot every person pulled over for DUI...same deadly weapon right! :lol: Hahaha/sarcasm, I didn't say that at all. Again not sure if she actually tried to hit the cop and that would change things. Agreed, if just fleeing, they have to decide the risk of letting her go; if into a crowded area, shoot her, if simply an empty alley shooting into an occupied vehicle is excessive. If in the direction of a LEO, they have the right to defend him against harm I just love how people go to a car as a weapon...sure it can be one, but we all drive 700lbs missiles too car isn't a weapon, car being driven at a person is a weapon. And yes, so is a motorcycle. and 99% of us have sped So....and quite a few on this board have got DUI's on a sportbike. As Black Knight said "Hmmmm play stupid games, win stupid prizes...." so where does that line be drawn? Prize going to jail and having a trail seems better than the prize of shot dead and game over.....swore that was a police officers job and not a executioner at their judgement. IT is their right and responsibility to be able to go home at the end of every shift. If she drove a car in the direction of the officers, their rights exceed her wants. Rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

I have actually read she was not a good kid and had a record already which should not and doesn't seem to have any bearing on the result of this independent incident. Still don't think cops use the best judgement at times. At times, no argument there. Why numerous shots to kill and to shot into a car with other teenagers in it that were not driving :dunno: <shrug> Shoot to kill to remove the deadly threat; don't shoot to harm and wound for a later discussion. Can play the what if game, but it clearly stated none of the other occupants were injured, so...... 1 bullet vs 15. well, thats just being argumentative about details that don't matter.

Well I am sure a lot of those protesters would disagree with you and feel they have a valid reason to protest. Many people have not understood protests for many years, but that does not mean others do no believe in their cause.....look it up. look what up? that people want to complain? I don't need to, thats obvious they do

[bulldog]

Captain, I think we are on the same page because none of use really know what happened. If the cop just shot into the car then that is wrong....now if she went and tried to kill him with vehicle I agree he has the right to use force at that time; we can't go around letting people think they can attack authority, but not enough is known yet on this case. Seem like new police chief is down to conduct investigation on his officers at least.

Now it would have put a different spin if the officers had shot another teenager in that car since they were not driving.

I am not against police, just think there is a lot of abuse of power that goes on

[Captain Obvious]

lazy inline adds.


Captain, I think we are on the same page because none of use really know what happened. Yeah, but I do confess to generally giving the LEO the benefit of the doubt. I acknowledge I am biased but not to the tune of cops are always right. If the cop just shot into the car then that is wrong....now if she went and tried to kill him with vehicle I agree he has the right to use force at that time; we can't go around letting people think they can attack authority, but not enough is known yet on this case. Seem like new police chief is down to conduct investigation on his officers at least. This should happen in all cases that someone dies, officer or citizen. The shootings/events that get media attention always get more.

Now it would have put a different spin if the officers had shot another teenager in that car since they were not driving. Yes, agreed, the end results would likely DRASTICALLY change the tone of the entire event, so in that, they were very lucky.

I am not against police, just think there is a lot of abuse of power that goes on There is. and if I could make 75% of my salary, I might still be in the other career field. Love of your job only goes so far. I don't know how teachers do it either.

[tecknojoe]

I'm going to start protesting against cruel treatment of police...

http://www.9news.com/story/news/crime/2015/01/30/jeffco-deputy-struck/22586441/

JEFFERSON COUNTY - A Jefferson County Sheriff's deputy was dragged for a short distance after approaching a suspicious vehicle in the 5600 block of Yank Street in Jefferson County at about 10:30 p.m. Thursday.
According to Jefferson County, as the deputy was making contact with the driver, the driver sped off, dragging the deputy. The deputy's foot was also run over during the incident.
He was taken to the hospital with minor injuries and has since been released from the hospital.
A "Be-On-The-Lookout" has been issued for the suspect's vehicle, which is described as:


Gold, soft-top Jeep
Ohio plates


Deputies say they have a good idea of who the driver was, but they are not releasing the driver's identity at this time.
When the driver is located, they will face a few different charges, including vehicular assault.

[Captain Obvious]

how can that be? why didn't the officer jump out of the way? the vehicle wasn't pointed at the officer was it? he should have let go earlier. he should have known better....

[Wrider]

Let me establish some baseline facts here that all parties agree on, and in chronological order...

1. Cops request teens to exit from car
2. Car starts moving before shots fired
3. Teen shot after car starts moving
4. Car hits cop after teen shot.

Logic in that situation would indicate that the car was moving toward the officer before the shots were fired. Which would mean that the shooting would be justified. Not sure how this is even a debate on cops overreaching...

[Captain Obvious]

But girls have the right to live too!



And there is some disagreement on "facts" 2 and 3s sequence. Friend in the car stated that they cops shot first, then the vehicle moved. Or maybe not..... perhaps they are debating shot first, then hit cop, implying had she not been shot, he might have not been hit?

[#1Townie]

But I have a question here.. Why was the cop in front of the car with no cover on a stolen vehicle stop?

This has kind of been playing around in my head today.

[Captain Obvious]

no way to tell from what I have read.

Passing around front from the passenger side to get a better angle on the driver
Entered the scene from in front of the vehicle
poor training or bad decision on officer safety
was inspecting the front to compare license plates

[#1Townie]

no way to tell from what I have read.

Passing around front from the passenger side to get a better angle on the driver
Entered the scene from in front of the vehicle
poor training or bad decision on officer safety
was inspecting the front to compare license plates

Well if he arrived from the front wouldn't he have parked his car to block off the suspects and give himself cover?

Also being in front opens him up to cross fire and friendly fire if his partners open up. He had zero cover up there from his report of being smashed.

Just a little weird and something to help stir the pot. Lol

[Captain Obvious]

Well if he arrived from the front wouldn't he have parked his car to block off the suspects and give himself cover?

Also being in front opens him up to cross fire and friendly fire if his partners open up. He had zero cover up there from his report of being smashed.

Just a little weird and something to help stir the pot. Lol

not necessarily. if they were both shooting from front windows in, yes, they would be in each others line of fire, but that isn't uncommon to be at each window, once drawn, they would generally moved to account for that.
IF approached from front, wouldn't sit behind cover (vehicle) unless had a reason, would much rather be up on the vehicle to respond. Perhaps was moving from the front to the drivers window to make contact with driver while the other officer was back.

There are a number of valid reasons an officer would cross in front of the vehicle, but there are some invalid ones as well.

[#1Townie]

Ummmm... Can you show me one video where the officer approaches from the front? I remind you in his list of things to get smashed into a car is not there.

Just saying never have I ever and I mean ever have I seen this.

[FZRguy]

Regardless of what happened, WTH are teen-aged girls doing out all night joy riding in a stolen car? This girl died as a direct result of bad parenting. Some people should not have children.

[Bueller]

This girl died as a direct result of bad parenting. Some people should not have children.
And that parent is now the one screaming the loudest before the facts are known. And the passenger is the one people are listening to?
A felony stop in the dark, they didn't even know it was a girl until after the fact. No matter what, she put herself in the position she was in. Not the cops. Those other dumb asses joy riding with her are damn lucky they weren't injured or killed. Comes to mind that this would have been a really good time for those tards to have performed the hands in the air "don't shoot" protest.
I defiantly believe that if the cops are lying and covering shit up they need to be severely disciplined, up to and including criminal prosecution.

[Kim-n-Dean]

People, and you know who I mean by "people", just aren't going to be bappy until a law is written that says a cop has to take a bullet to the forehead before he can react!!!

I, on the other hand, will never be shot by a cop!!!!!!

Jim Carrey said it best. STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASS HOLE!!!!!

[#1Townie]

People, and you know who I mean by "people", just aren't going to be bappy until a law is written that says a cop has to take a bullet to the forehead before he can react!!!

I, on the other hand, will never be shot by a cop!!!!!!

Jim Carrey said it best. STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASS HOLE!!!!!

http://youtu.be/KeT_oSLtI-o

You tell me how to avoid this one.

I won't say I want to see them shot before they pull a trigger but I would like to see some of these shootings ablittle more justified. Like actually seeing a gun.

[Aaron]

Because guns are the only ways to kill people. That's why we should take them away from everyone. Then no one would die, and no one could ever try and kill a cop again.

It should be noted the last Colorado Officer to die in the line of duty was hit by a car.

It seems society would rather cops just do nothing nowadays, and it's getting worse every day. It's never the criminals fault, always the cops. It's getting to the point where a lot of cops have zero interest in finding criminals, just too much risk in case something bad happens. Almost can't blame them. I think society would've rather the cops drive the other way, leave the felons be. So they joyride, crash into a bunch of cars, maybe kill a person or two, and eventually run out of gas. Not the cops problem right?

[Kim-n-Dean]

http://youtu.be/KeT_oSLtI-o

You tell me how to avoid this one.

I won't say I want to see them shot before they pull a trigger but I would like to see some of these shootings ablittle more justified. Like actually seeing a gun.I never watch the videos on here. For some reason, I did today. Anyway, a perfect example of a dip shit cop. An even better example that these supposed trained professionals can't hit the side of a barn!!! Living in a neighborhood full of cops, I can honestly say I have never met a cop that knows how to handle his firearm. But they sure do look cool directing traffic with their ARs strapped on...

BTW - what finally happened to that moron?

[#1Townie]

Because guns are the only ways to kill people. That's why we should take them away from everyone. Then no one would die, and no one could ever try and kill a cop again.

It should be noted the last Colorado Officer to die in the line of duty was hit by a car.

It seems society would rather cops just do nothing nowadays, and it's getting worse every day. It's never the criminals fault, always the cops. It's getting to the point where a lot of cops have zero interest in finding criminals, just too much risk in case something bad happens. Almost can't blame them. I think society would've rather the cops drive the other way, leave the felons be. So they joyride, crash into a bunch of cars, maybe kill a person or two, and eventually run out of gas. Not the cops problem right?

No its we would like to see officers as a whole act and be professional. Not be a scared bunch of little girls. Shooting first asking questions later. Maybe talk to the general public as adults and not prison guards.

Its clear people have had enough with the double standards. Let me ask you Aaron, what would happen if I shot a guy because I thought he had a gun? Would be attempted murder if he doesn't die or just assault?

I don't get why in my profession I am held to a higher standard but law enforcement isn't given all these breaks. And don't tell me it doesn't happen. I will post endless links if you try.

So maybe law enforcement should take a look at their tactics and form new training and new tactics.

[bulldog]

Regardless of what happened, WTH are teen-aged girls doing out all night joy riding in a stolen car? This girl died as a direct result of bad parenting. Some people should not have children. I agree and I am sure this is bad parenting (not always as some kids just end up bad). Yet I am not so sure she died because of bad parenting or was this more just a bad situation. If there was a rule that said "you steal a car and a cop catches you then you will be shot and killed" then I could understand. At 17 I highly doubt the teenager rationalized that her actions could have concluded with her life ending; why you think they do not count as minors under 18. Sure she knew it could end her up in jail, but I bet she had no clue that when she stole that car it was going to end her life. Again, I am not sure the girl tried to hit the officer or not, but doing a bad thing should not conclude to being shot (of course some situations do require this, but not sure this was one; evidence is too lacking right now).




It seems society would rather cops just do nothing nowadays, and it's getting worse every day. It's never the criminals fault, always the cops. It's getting to the point where a lot of cops have zero interest in finding criminals, just too much risk in case something bad happens. Almost can't blame them. I think society would've rather the cops drive the other way, leave the felons be. So they joyride, crash into a bunch of cars, maybe kill a person or two, and eventually run out of gas. Not the cops problem right? So you want us to feel bad for police officers having to do their job. And not some surprise job, but the one every police officer knows they are signing up for...heck turn on the show COPS and it gives a pretty clear picture of what you are signing up for. Nobody is complaining that we do not want cops to do their jobs, but HOW they are doing their jobs (the bad ones). To me officers are taking the easier way out and using lethal force rather than having to use other options. We are seeing more and more of it and it really is leaving people with a bad sense of what a police officer is. I'd think a good cop would be embarrassed by this and would truly want the people to look up to them and come to them for help and would want to find a solution. The fact is a lot of people fear police officers and I do not think this is what that position was established for. Some of the greatest cops were ones the neighborhoods respected and trusted; that does not happen by using "bullying" tactics as nobody respect that. Just seems like a change does need to be made....and i think it is safer for both parties. As discussed when violence is used it normally just ends in more violence..."the pen is mightier than the sword" just like the "voice can be stronger than a gun". :dunno:

P.S. Saying that I will say I do respect the job a officer has to do and I am sure it is not easy at all. Same as with the Armed Forces I am appreciative for what they do (the good ones).

[#1Townie]

Well actually you can't perform a repo in front of law enforcement unless you have a court order. So basically if cops show up its a breach of peace and all repossession activities must end.

[dirkterrell]

Its clear people have had enough with the double standards. Let me ask you Aaron, what would happen if I shot a guy because I thought he had a gun? Would be attempted murder if he doesn't die or just assault?


Townie, you can usually be counted on to get down to the essence of a problem, and here it is. The problem is that there is a double standard, in this and many other areas of our society. I think the "war on drugs" has fundamentally changed the nature of what police do, from "peace officer" to "law enforcement officer." Think about how that changes the mentality of the people involved, and it isn't a good change.

[bulldog]

Well actually you can't perform a repo in front of law enforcement unless you have a court order. So basically if cops show up its a breach of peace and all repossession activities must end. Crazy, never knew that and wondered why they never call the police and figured most those repo shows are fake and fight for the camera and that is why. Stupid though if it is a repo and they are not paying their bills you would think the police should help....at least to stop crazy people thinking their car is being stolen...the car they don't pay on. Sucks, always figured cops would show up and be like "he has the proper paperwork so hand over the keys....period". Again the law confuses me so bad....repo has to end...wow.


Townie, you can usually be counted on to get down to the essence of a problem, and here it is. The problem is that there is a double standard, in this and many other areas of our society. I think the "war on drugs" has fundamentally changed the nature of what police do, from "peace officer" to "law enforcement officer." Think about how that changes the mentality of the people involved, and it isn't a good change.
The double standard is the problem for sure and what bothers most people about it! As I said before more people see cops to fear than the "peace officer" they were once. I know if I get a cop behind me the first thing is my stomach drops even when I know I have done nothing wrong. Wish it was opposite for me and be like "nice I feel safe now that this cop is behind me".


Don't even get me started on the "War on Drugs"...omg, what a crappy plan! So now we have our prison facilities packed with drug offenses because a "minimum sentence" was assigned for war on drugs. We get first offense people who get 20+ years for marijuana, but the rapist and murder can get out in 7 years if they act good. So the person who was an addict and basically is only hurting themselves (in general) gets 3 times the sentence than raping someone! I mean did the law think that by making tougher penalties it was going to stop drugs; no way, just made for a clogged prison facility where people get out early because there is no room...no to mention all the money taxpayers spend on the prison system. Going with what you say though, war on drugs has turned this into a lot of "enforce the law" rather than realize drugs are a huge problem and putting them in prison doesn't seem to be solving the problem. Other countries deal with addicts different and seems to work better; not saying a addict should be felt sorry for, but if anyone has ever known one you can see it is a sickness that takes over them and most can't stop on their own and jail does little to help.

[#1Townie]

Crazy, never knew that and wondered why they never call the police and figured most those repo shows are fake and fight for the camera and that is why. Stupid though if it is a repo and they are not paying their bills you would think the police should help....at least to stop crazy people thinking their car is being stolen...the car they don't pay on. Sucks, always figured cops would show up and be like "he has the proper paperwork so hand over the keys....period". Again the law confuses me so bad....repo has to end...wow.

No way bro. I wouldn't have it that way. That is a violation of a persons due process. Banks make mistakes. Its also why I used respect. A person doesn't have to open a garage door and give up the keys.

And yes those shows are fake. They also created a level of stress on debtor's that made the job even harder. Sitting around waiting for the angry repo guy.

But yeah at the end of the day I couldn't count on leos. It was just me and who I was with. No one else. No other help. It only worked by being able to calm people down and create a chance for negotiations.

[#1Townie]

Townie, you can usually be counted on to get down to the essence of a problem, and here it is. The problem is that there is a double standard, in this and many other areas of our society. I think the "war on drugs" has fundamentally changed the nature of what police do, from "peace officer" to "law enforcement officer." Think about how that changes the mentality of the people involved, and it isn't a good change.

Here is a fun little bit of info.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

Or..

http://youtu.be/pxfk973QQvo

[bulldog]

No way bro. I wouldn't have it that way. That is a violation of a persons due process. Banks make mistakes. Its also why I used respect. A person doesn't have to open a garage door and give up the keys.

And yes those shows are fake. They also created a level of stress on debtor's that made the job even harder. Sitting around waiting for the angry repo guy.

But yeah at the end of the day I couldn't count on leos. It was just me and who I was with. No one else. No other help. It only worked by being able to calm people down and create a chance for negotiations. Just seems odd as you would think those are the ones you would want help from...again goes to show that maybe they do not always help and you can do it better yourself using non-violent techniques you learned through the years. I'd think police officers would have figured that out by now too....of course some have, but others will always be the "hothead" cops that use their power. Amazing, because I feel a repo job is a very dangerous position and you have shown you do it better without violence or a gun. :up:

Yeah those shows are dumb. I seen that "South Beach Towing" one and no doubt that is 100% fake. I saw some repo black lady just hitting some guy over the head with a pipe just to get the repo. I was like oh yes, talk about a person looking for a lawsuit and I'd think a repo person hitting a person over the head would be a great reason to sue. So yeah I can see how it can make your job harder for sure....freakin reality tv :lol:

[j0ker]

Just seems odd as you would think those are the ones you would want help from...again goes to show that maybe they do not always help and you can do it better yourself using non-violent techniques you learned through the years. I'd think police officers would have figured that out by now too....of course some have, but others will always be the "hothead" cops that use their power. Amazing, because I feel a repo job is a very dangerous position and you have shown you do it better without violence or a gun. :up:

Yeah those shows are dumb. I seen that "South Beach Towing" one and no doubt that is 100% fake. I saw some repo black lady just hitting some guy over the head with a pipe just to get the repo. I was like oh yes, talk about a person looking for a lawsuit and I'd think a repo person hitting a person over the head would be a great reason to sue. So yeah I can see how it can make your job harder for sure....freakin reality tv :lol:

I like the one where that same large black lady gets thrown/pushed out of a parking garage on the second or third floor.

[bulldog]

I like the one where that same large black lady gets thrown/pushed out of a parking garage on the second or third floor.

Here she is :lol:

http://starcasm.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Bernice_police.jpeg