health care thread

[madvlad]

So just starting this cause we jacked the trailer thread and bad with this, so carry on with the convo here :lol:

[bulldog]

Cool. I'll delete post over there and move it here:



Bump for the trailer

Complain for the insurance :lol:

We spend $9300 this past year on medical bills. We have a company supplied top level BCBS plan with "high" deductible. Our familys deductible is $5700 (interesting number Barn) but something new to us this year (as well as our new deductible, up from $5000 the year before) is "co-insurance". I have never really payed much attention to insurance plans or benefits outside of what we have had and stupily thought that "co" insurance was something that helps your primary insurance out. NOPE!

We now have to pay our deductible AND 20% of everything over it because of the co-insurance.

Its fucking fantastic! Matter of fact, it give me a complete raging hardon (that I have my Dr. look at regularly) because of how things have changed in the past 3 years.

I wonder how many people race their motorcycles without insurance?

Also, the $9300 that we paid is just what WE paid. The company covers the monthly premium, that also rose this year, of $650. Thats another $7800! EJ, I have been leading a healthcare project for 10 years now and know a lot about the industry. Your issue is the "Top level BCBC High Deductible plan" you chose (assume they give you options). That plan is based for people who rarely need insurance so their rates are lower, but your deductible is higher. You should be able to go for the opposite, a low deductible plan, but you will most likely pay more a month. Insurance is basically like gambling and you may never need it and the next year you may need it bad so that is why there are so many plans to choose from. Most people just see the lower cost per month and get fooled into thinking they will save with this plan; which they will if they never need to use it.....yeah sounds dumb, but a high deductible makes them not pay till that is done. They are meant to cover huge expensive medical issues.

Co-insurance means your plan will only pay a certain percentage and then you have to pay the rest; common is 80% they pay and you get to pick up the 20% left over. It is rare to find a plan that still pays 100%; they exist, but are expensive. One option is if your wife also has medical insurance through her work. You can both get insurance and then one will pay most of what the other does not pay. This is called dual insurance and one will become your primary insurance and the other will be your secondary. It really comes down to how much you think you will need to use your insurance in a year.

As for your other question, you can always opt out of your companies insurance, but most pay a huge part of it for you, so the chances of getting a lower rate is going to be rare; and if you do it probably means you will get less coverage. Insurance companies are not dumb, so if you see a great rate on one I bet their is a reason (in the fine print).

If it makes you feel better I constantly see people with no insurance get in one accident and they get bills in the hundreds of thousands; ruins their entire financial life. To me not having health insurance is a way bigger risk because you never know what happens.

You have my number so hit me up if i can help you understand this better :)

I've said it before and will say it again, if a person races sportbikes they better get on the phone with their insurance company and see if that is covered because most have a clause that excludes them from paying a road sport injury. Insurances have workers just to find these things so the chances are high they will find it....even if they already paid out they can retract that money and send you the bill; up to a year later!

[~Barn~]

I have health care. If you've ever been sick, hurt yourself, had a pregnancy, had a disease managed with medicine, needed dental work, needed glasses, needed somebody to talk to before you hang yourself, needed stitches, etc., you can probably appreciate how critical it is.

I believe that if you are born with or develop a "pre-existing condition", you should not be precluded from having affordable health care.

I believe that if you are a child covered by your parent's healthcare, you should be able to retain that care while you are pursuing your education, even into your college years.

I hope everybody in the United States has healthcare soon, even if it costs me a few extra bucks to help defray the costs for people who don't earn as much.

I believe that inconvenience and misunderstanding is sometimes a necessary symptom for the type of colossal change that can only happen every few generations. Healthy Americans only serve for a healthy America.

That is all.

[bulldog]

I believe that if you are a child covered by your parent's healthcare, you should be able to retain that care while you are pursuing your education, even into your college years. Most commercial plans do offer this, you just have to enroll the kid as a "student". I have seen people stay on their parents insurance the entire time in college. Depends on insurance company though

[~Barn~]

After reading EJs post, I have to share my personal situation also. I've had lots of jobs and lots of different insurance plans. Some have been good, others great, and others I probably just didn't understand well enough at the time to have an opinion on...

That said, I believe my current coverage is the best I've ever had. I won't go too deep into the weeds explaining my coverage's and costs, but suffices to say that it's a great value. I have no maximum lifetime benefit cap and year-over-year my out of pocket maximum expense is $2000person/$4000 family, which is extremely reasonable if something catastrophic were to happen to any of us. As somebody who has had a somewhat major procedure done that included 4 "overnights" in recovery, make no mistake that the costs you incur can quickly rise into the 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars. And this was just the hospital working on my L-arm, a single limb. Imagine the costs of having to have your entire body treated!

While it's absolutely certain that the healthcare system has faults that need to be addressed, it's also absolutely certain that anybody living in this country with a life (and a lifestyle) worth preserving, MUST have insurance. Here is a glimpse of what my employer (and I) pay towards my healthcare plan each paycheck. I get 24 pay cycles a year and these costs are inclusive of coverage for me and my entire family - 7 individuals total. And IMO, it would be a good deal at double the price!


https://gkioxg-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y2piqv3eVbMfM5S-SmPI3aMV9GvVW5WlzyFj_VGb7U9XtTv6Dz9QynmTNFt3m5QP3e htI3yR86xeNvW8RH3zgrQfgCZiMuhI9c1VIHV4kjAlY0KGdqSS snYOc__mMUL6sPdISb9XVDMm8svWUJ55-v2Pw/Untitled.jpg

[bulldog]

I just did a comparison from Aetna, Cigna, and BCBS and Aetna paid the least and had the most non-covered services of them all. Not sure why they do not cover what others will, but they seem to be very picky. I like UHC, but my company just changed and I had to decide which of three to go with.....Cigna actually paid the closest to UHC of those...again plans my company offers as all can be different. Annoyed I do not have UHC anymore; United Health Care.

A insurance plan cannot be determined by how much you pay as so much more matters. Most insurances have over 100 plans for a consumer/employer to choose from so that should show how confusing this can be.


P.S. Be aware if the mother of these children (well except the one you are natural father too) has insurance too, then coordination of benefits will come into play and most likely her insurance would be primary. Just something to be aware of; not sure if she covers them too or if adoption ever came into play for the other kids. These are situations we hate in healthcare because they are very hard to figure out and can result of claims being paid and then money taken back when proper COB is found out....see it everyday. I do not think it is fair, but insurance companies do not care.....hence why they are "for profit" companies.

[madvlad]

I hadn't signed for insurance last year cause it was truly untouchable, just thankful nothing bad happened to me lol... They were quoting me anywhere from $460/month for a policy that didn't even cover my needs and around $640 for one that did, can't afford that. Thankfully my new job offers pretty good coverage for about $120/month and covers my pre-existing condition drugs that I need as well for special visits and what not. I also signed up for a long term disability just in case and also a $500k life insurance policy, both for an extra $60.

[tecknojoe]

My costs for Anthem doubled this year, and so did my deductible. they also now only cover flight for life when medically necessary (when the fuck else would I use it)

then they just leaked my personal information and social security number, unencrypted. FUCK ANTHEM

Seriously going to consider leaving my company this year to get away from Anthem

Also, anyone considering the track, MAKE SURE you're covered.
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?49684-Which-heli-company-does-HPR-MRA-use&highlight=

[bulldog]

I hadn't signed for insurance last year cause it was truly untouchable, just thankful nothing bad happened to me lol... They were quoting me anywhere from $460/month for a policy that didn't even cover my needs and around $640 for one that did, can't afford that. Thankfully my new job offers pretty good coverage for about $120/month and covers my pre-existing condition drugs that I need as well for special visits and what not. I also signed up for a long term disability just in case and also a $500k life insurance policy, both for an extra $60.
I offered to help you and you never came by. Anyways glad to hear you got that sorted out and happy you are now covered....now go check if the track is covered :)

[#1Townie]

Fuck healthcare! I'm a rock star. Lol. Cheaper to pay the "tax" than to have something I never use.

[Kim-n-Dean]

My costs for Anthem doubled this year, and so did my deductible. they also now only cover flight for life when medically necessary (when the fuck else would I use it)

then they just leaked my personal information and social security number, unencrypted. FUCK ANTHEM

Seriously going to consider leaving my company this year to get away from Anthem

Also, anyone considering the track, MAKE SURE you're covered. It's been a while, but Anthem was the worst insurance I've ever had!!

Being self employed, I've been on Kim's work policy (Transamerica) for about fifteen years and every year the coverage goes down a little and the rates go up a little. Thanks to that jack ass in the White House, the rates have really jumped and the coverage really sucks, now. You would think that working for a HUGE insurance company, you would have excellent coverage, regardless of how bad NoBama wants to screw things up.

Well, gotta get back to work, someone on welfare is depending on me!!!!!!!

[Clovis]

Brandon,

So you're only paying $134.10 per month for health insurance on a family of 7? If I have that right.. damn! Go you!

We HAD affordable health care coverage until Obamacare.

Up until 12/31/2011 we had two health plans offered at work. One that covered 100% and one that covered 80/20% (not sure what the deductable was). We had always had the 100% coverage plan and for my wife and I, the cost was around $250/mo in payroll deductions.

In 2012 the 100% plan went away and the 80/20 plan is the ONLY option offered. It was more expensive than the previous 100% plan to boot.

Fast forward to 2015 and for a family of 3 (me + wife + baby) it's just under $600/mo in payroll deductions for medical/dental/vision. Add in the HSA and $710 per month comes out for health insurance and health costs.

So everyone now should just count on spending $10,000 or more per year on insurance costs.

$6000 in premiums + $4000 in deductables.

Oh, and my employer kicks in a lot.

So to recap Obamacare:

Before Obamacare: Very affordable insurance, we never had to think about it. Same day doctor appointments? No problem! $10 co-pay

After Obamacare: Very unaffordable insurance costs, we think about it all the time. We have to seriously think about going to the doctor's office now because we're paying 100% until we've paid out $4000 for the year. Need to see your doctor? Hopefully it's nothing too serious and you can wait a few weeks.

My wife wants to get an IUD because the hormonal birth control affects her mood.

They're booked a month out. Just for her initial consult it was 45 days between making the appointment and having it. And another 45 day wait to actually get the implant.

Before Obamacare, this would have been a same day one and done.

So Obamacare means: Pay vastly more for health insurance, higher co-pays, welcome to having deductables for everyone, long wait times, ect... basically everything the republicans warned would happen with this monstrosity and the left said they were just being racist.

For some of us, 2017 can't come soon enough...




After reading EJs post, I have to share my personal situation also. I've had lots of jobs and lots of different insurance plans. Some have been good, others great, and others I probably just didn't understand well enough at the time to have an opinion on...

That said, I believe my current coverage is the best I've ever had. I won't go too deep into the weeds explaining my coverage's and costs, but suffices to say that it's a great value. I have no maximum lifetime benefit cap and year-over-year my out of pocket maximum expense is $2000person/$4000 family, which is extremely reasonable if something catastrophic were to happen to any of us. As somebody who has had a somewhat major procedure done that included 4 "overnights" in recovery, make no mistake that the costs you incur can quickly rise into the 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars. And this was just the hospital working on my L-arm, a single limb. Imagine the costs of having to have your entire body treated!

While it's absolutely certain that the healthcare system has faults that need to be addressed, it's also absolutely certain that anybody living in this country with a life (and a lifestyle) worth preserving, MUST have insurance. Here is a glimpse of what my employer (and I) pay towards my healthcare plan each paycheck. I get 24 pay cycles a year and these costs are inclusive of coverage for me and my entire family - 7 individuals total. And IMO, it would be a good deal at double the price!


https://gkioxg-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y2piqv3eVbMfM5S-SmPI3aMV9GvVW5WlzyFj_VGb7U9XtTv6Dz9QynmTNFt3m5QP3e htI3yR86xeNvW8RH3zgrQfgCZiMuhI9c1VIHV4kjAlY0KGdqSS snYOc__mMUL6sPdISb9XVDMm8svWUJ55-v2Pw/Untitled.jpg

[Kim-n-Dean]

My wife wants to get an IUD because the hormonal birth control affects her mood. Get a vasectomy. I did about fifteen years ago. Best thing I ever did!! Why put the female through the hormones (oral birth control), surgery (tubes tied) or implants (IUDs) that can cause damage when they move around?!?

Boy, have I heard some lame ass excuses on why a man won't get a vasectomy!!! Too many to list... Pussies!!



For some of us, 2017 can't come soon enough...AMEN!!!!

[bulldog]

I just don't get how it is the insurance's fault that there is a 45 day wait...that is on the doctor because insurance does not control doctors appointments. Now if you are talking about a authorization for 45 days I understand, but the wording "booked out" seems to me the doctor office you called is at fault :dunno:

And the major blame for healthcare going up is because so many people do not have insurance so the people paying are getting hit for their fees so the taxpayers can buy them coverage. You think the doctors/hospital that treat these people with no insurance somehow still get paid;nope it gets passed on to others. The problem with our country; everyone wants things for free without working for them and the people that do work hard for it have to pay for the slackers!

You want to blame anyone, go after the single mother with 7 kids all from different dads that is on Welfare and Medicaid that is still having kids and collecting more money. Or the people on disability that claim they cannot work when they are just scamming the system

[#1Townie]

I just don't get how it is the insurance's fault that there is a 45 day wait...that is on the doctor because insurance does not control doctors appointments. Now if you are talking about a authorization for 45 days I understand, but the wording "booked out" seems to me the doctor office you called is at fault :dunno:

And the major blame for healthcare going up is because so many people do not have insurance so the people paying are getting hit for their fees so the taxpayers can buy them coverage. You think the doctors/hospital that treat these people with no insurance somehow still get paid;nope it gets passed on to others. The [problem with our country; everyone wants things for free without working for them and the people that do work hard for it have to pay for the slackers!

You want to blame anyone, go after the single mother with 7 kids all from different dads that is on Welfare and Medicaid that is still having kids and collecting more money

Doctors offices and ERS are all slammed these days because now everyone is going because their toe hurts. Or they have the sniffles.

To be honest I agree our healthcare has had issues for far too long but what we got with this new situation is just a pile of shit that really created more problems than solutions.

I think people should have the choice to buy something. I have not gone to the doctors office in..... Ummmm... I think ten years!!

Will I need it? Maybe. Maybe not.

[~Barn~]

I just did a comparison from Aetna, Cigna, and BCBS and Aetna paid the least and had the most non-covered services of them all. Not sure why they do not cover what others will, but they seem to be very picky. <Snip...>

Interestingly, that hasn't been my experience for the couple of years I've had Aetna. Obviously there are many dozens, if not hundreds of flavors of "Aetna" simply based by geographic regions, so I can't speak to their general practices, but specific to the Colorado HMO 20 plan that I have, it's pretty comprehensive as far as I can tell.

With the exception of vision and dental coverage (natch'), and things like cosmetic and acupuncture procedures, there is coverage for most everything I can realistically think of. Obviously everything being performed IN-NETWORK is crucial, but it's all pretty much there. Pre/postnatal care, in/outpatient surgeries, preventative care and immunizations, lab diagnostics and imaging (CATs, MRIs, etc.), mental health, durable goods, hospice and rehabilitation services, substance abuse, prescriptions, emergency and urgent care, specialists, so-on, so-forth.

And my HMO is also a $0-deductible plan too, so I only have copays which I end up paying with an FSA anyway. As long as I register my PCP, I can visit specialists without any referral. So yeah.... YMMV, but I really do like Aetna.

Truthfully, the only downside is that because my company offers like 20some different plans to choose from (Aetna, BCBS, Kaiser), it becomes a bit of a chore reviewing everything during open enrollment to make sure I'm picking the best one for me.


Brandon,

So you're only paying $134.10 per month for health insurance on a family of 7? If I have that right.. damn! Go you! <Snip...>

For just the healthcare piece, yes. When I bundle in the vision and dental coverage, it's actually $151.44 monthly. Long story short, I appreciate the coverage I have and god bless my company for covering such a huge percent of the total cost. I believe it's around 95%.

[bulldog]

Doctors offices and ERS are all slammed these days because now everyone is going because their toe hurts. Or they have the sniffles.

To be honest I agree our healthcare has had issues for far too long but what we got with this new situation is just a pile of shit that really created more problems than solutions.

I think people should have the choice to buy something. I have not gone to the doctors office in..... Ummmm... I think ten years!!

Will I need it? Maybe. Maybe not. Only difference there is people with no insurance would go to hospitals that were under the category of "indigent"; meaning they cannot refuse a patient as it is against the law. They would go there and clog up ER's to report their cold....and guess what...the ER had to see them. They needed a $500K surgery.....yup cannot refuse it and gets hit on the taxpayers.....and most of these were issues brought on by drug/alcohol abuse and even obesity....something they did to themselves


Now the moral decision should be "do taxpayers have to pay for the people who do not have insurance". If we did not have indigent hospitals and could deny people then maybe they would step up and get the insurance they need; sorry but a lot can afford it but choose things they would rather buy...like cars, drugs, alcohol, motorcycles, etc. I do feel there are people that do need help, but when I see a single mother with 7 kids and one on the way it really makes me wonder why we have to pay for her bad decisions. Hey you can afford 7 kids, then awesome, but if not then why keep having kids and asking for handouts.


Interestingly, that hasn't been my experience for the couple of years I've had Aetna. Obviously there are many dozens, if not hundreds of flavors of "Aetna" simply based by geographic regions, so I can't speak to their general practices, but specific to the Colorado HMO 20 plan that I have, it's pretty comprehensive as far as I can tell.

With the exception of vision and dental coverage (natch'), and things like cosmetic and acupuncture procedures, there is coverage for most everything I can realistically think of. Obviously everything being performed IN-NETWORK is crucial, but it's all pretty much there. Pre/postnatal care, in/outpatient surgeries, preventative care and immunizations, lab diagnostics and imaging (CATs, MRIs, etc.), mental health, durable goods, hospice and rehabilitation services, substance abuse, prescriptions, emergency and urgent care, specialists, so-on, so-forth.

And my HMO is also a $0-deductible plan too, so I only have copays which I end up paying with an FSA anyway. As long as I register my PCP, I can visit specialists without any referral. So yeah.... YMMV, but I really do like Aetna.

Truthfully, the only downside is that because my company offers like 20some different plans to choose from (Aetna, BCBS, Kaiser), it becomes a bit of a chore reviewing everything during open enrollment to make sure I'm picking the best one for me.



For just the healthcare piece, yes. When I bundle in the vision and dental coverage, it's actually $151.44 monthly. Long story short, I appreciate the coverage I have and god bless my company for covering such a huge percent of the total cost. I believe it's around 95%. With a $0 deductible I will say that is a great plan! You very rarely find those anymore :up: We need more companies like that nowadays! Paying with a FSA is even better.

I think it was chiropractor and deep tissue massages I get Aetna would not cover. I know that is a stretch, but to me not everything needs to be fixed with a pill so I go for these "natural" options. I can say it has helped me more than pills ever did; they only masked the pain.

[#1Townie]

Bro who do you think pays for that insurance?!?!?!

http://rt.com/usa/195948-budget-review-obamacare-costs/

[bulldog]

Bro who do you think pays for that insurance?!?!?!

http://rt.com/usa/195948-budget-review-obamacare-costs/
Prior to Obama care it was passed on to the doctor and hospital...who then passed it on to us. You ever seen a doctor bill and say "wow, they charged $120 to give me a shot". That is because the doctors are passing on costs.

Obamacare really comes down to a moral decision of should we help everyone in this country be medically covered! Obama feels we should, and others feel we should not. I am in the middle and say tougher restrictions to qualify for help as that is the problems; abuse and scamming.

[#1Townie]

Prior to Obama care it was passed on to the doctor and hospital...who then passed it on to us. You ever seen a doctor bill and say "wow, they charged $120 to give me a shot". That is because the doctors are passing on costs.

Obamacare really comes down to a moral decision of should we help everyone in this country be medically covered! Obama feels we should, and others feel we should not. I am in the middle and say tougher restrictions to qualify for help as that is the problems; abuse and scamming.

And that has all of a sudden changed? So a MRI isn't 3k anymore?

[birchyboy]

We had Aetna last year and they were very good overall. The company I work for is big enough that it has some clout from a customer service standpoint. This year, we were allowed to choose from 3 carriers, all with the same plan design and cost. It came down to who we wanted to administer the plan. We elected to have UnitedHealthcare because they had been extremely good to us when we have had them. My wife has some medical issues, so we went with a 350/700 deductible plan.

[~Barn~]

Nate, Chiropractic is even covered by my plan, but it's limited to 20 visits per calendar year. My guess is that it would be viewed at the "Specialist" rate of a $35/copay per visit, but I'm not 100% sure. The $25 "regular" copay would be even better.

[bulldog]

Nate, Chiropractic is even covered by my plan, but it's limited to 20 visits per calendar year. My guess is that it would be viewed at the "Specialist" rate of a $35/copay per visit, but I'm not 100% sure. The $25 "regular" copay would be even better. Nice...maybe it was the deep tissue massage then. Something was not covered and I was annoyed; did this like 3 months ago. Sorry I did not mean to say Aetna is not good, but it all comes down to checking what you will use them for; that is what I did and all the current things covered under UHC were not covered under Aetna, but Cigna covered them. Probably comes down to personal preference at that point.

Either way you have a great plan man! Ten years ago I also had no deductible but every year it has increased and I am at a $350 one now. Your company seems to actually care about their employees and that is rare.


And that has all of a sudden changed? So a MRI isn't 3k anymore? A MIR is a totally different ballgame though because that machine does cost a lot to use; giant magnet that is expensive to run. What I meant is you go in for a shot and they bill insurance $120 when we all know that is a bit crazy; diabetics give themselves shots daily and is not that hard. So I just meant that was all passed on through the years till we got to this point. How do they say it "shit rolls downhill" so you better believe doctors/hospitals are going to recoup money any way they can.

[Ezzzzy1]

Lots of good information. Some of it pisses me off though... Its horse shit that plans can vary as much as they do. Company A seems to cup their employees balls and company B seems to pass the bulk of the cost, as well picking a shitty plan, off to their employees.

What the fluck ever. I enjoyed paying almost $10k last year.

For profit health care can suck it.

[Clovis]

[QUOTE=Kim-n-Dean;767415]Get a vasectomy. I did about fifteen years ago. Best thing I ever did!! Why put the female through the hormones (oral birth control), surgery (tubes tied) or implants (IUDs) that can cause damage when they move around?!?

QUOTE]

Ha! That's the plan but we've only had 1 kid and we want a 2nd. After #2 we plan to stop and then it's snip snip.

[bulldog]

Lots of good information. Some of it pisses me off though... Its horse shit that plans can vary as much as they do. Company A seems to cup their employees balls and company B seems to pass the bulk of the cost, as well picking a shitty plan, off to their employees.

What the fluck ever. I enjoyed paying almost $10k last year.

For profit health care can suck it. Every employer had insurance rates go up....some just chose to take the hit and others turned it on us. Barn is on of few I have heard that took the loss as a company.

[dirkterrell]

Until the medical industry has its exemptions from anti-competitive laws (like Robinson-Patman and the Sherman and Clayton Acts) rescinded, all of this is just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. The real problem wasn't solved by Obamacare. It just brought more pockets into the game for the medical industry to pick.

[WolFeYeZ]

Until the medical industry has its exemptions from anti-competitive laws (like Robinson-Patman and the Sherman and Clayton Acts) rescinded, all of this is just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. The real problem wasn't solved by Obamacare. It just brought more pockets into the game for the medical industry to pick.

Could you explain this a little more, such as how they violate these laws and what could be done to fix it? I looked them all up again real quick, but did not see anything that popped out.

[#1Townie]

Nice...maybe it was the deep tissue massage then. Something was not covered and I was annoyed; did this like 3 months ago. Sorry I did not mean to say Aetna is not good, but it all comes down to checking what you will use them for; that is what I did and all the current things covered under UHC were not covered under Aetna, but Cigna covered them. Probably comes down to personal preference at that point.

Either way you have a great plan man! Ten years ago I also had no deductible but every year it has increased and I am at a $350 one now. Your company seems to actually care about their employees and that is rare.

A MIR is a totally different ballgame though because that machine does cost a lot to use; giant magnet that is expensive to run. What I meant is you go in for a shot and they bill insurance $120 when we all know that is a bit crazy; diabetics give themselves shots daily and is not that hard. So I just meant that was all passed on through the years till we got to this point. How do they say it "shit rolls downhill" so you better believe doctors/hospitals are going to recoup money any way they can.

No no no. Its the same thing. And it still costs the same. Not to mention how often people are denied proper medical care just to "save money".

I don't give a damn about insurance companies and what cost is thrown at them. They are a big part of why our healthcare is so jacked up. So if anything they need to be hit harder.

Its not just a shot. Everything in healthcare is massively overpriced. EVERYTHING! Its why I don't go see a doctor when I get a cold. If I'm not bleeding to death I'm not going.

[The Black Knight]

Get a vasectomy.

Boy, have I heard some lame ass excuses on why a man won't get a vasectomy!!! Too many to list... Pussies!!


AMEN!!!!

Dude, no man wants to fire blanks.... :D

[Drano]

Dude, no man wants to fire blanks.... :D

From what I've heard, you don't technically fire blanks, there is still an ejaculation, it just doesn't have the sperm cells in it. *The More You Know!*

I'll say this much: If my wife wasn't holding out hope that she may eventually want to have children I'd have had the procedure performed before the wedding! When it comes to kids, I'm indifferent. I'm happy without them, but if she wanted them I wouldn't protest, I'd just try to be the best dad I can be.

[Clovis]

From what I've heard, you don't technically fire blanks, there is still an ejaculation, it just doesn't have the sperm cells in it. *The More You Know!*

I'll say this much: If my wife wasn't holding out hope that she may eventually want to have children I'd have had the procedure performed before the wedding! When it comes to kids, I'm indifferent. I'm happy without them, but if she wanted them I wouldn't protest, I'd just try to be the best dad I can be.

Thats more or less how I always felt. Now that I'm a dad and River is about to turn a year old I can tell you there's just something about being a father. It's very rewarding so far and I wouldn't go back.

I love being a daddy and I'm sure you would/will too.

[Kim-n-Dean]

From what I've heard, you don't technically fire blanks, there is still an ejaculation, it just doesn't have the sperm cells in it. *The More You Know!*It's amazing how many people think "it doesn't work anymore"!! If you could fill a gallon jug, you would lose maybe 1/100th of an ounce after a vasectomy. There's no difference in the volume of the wad you toss on her face. She's gonna have to clean up the same mess whether or not you've had a vasectomy.

[Ezzzzy1]

Dude, no man wants to fire blanks.... :D


Im guessing you dont have kids... :coffee:

[TFOGGuys]

Until the medical industry has its exemptions from anti-competitive laws (like Robinson-Patman and the Sherman and Clayton Acts) rescinded, all of this is just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic. The real problem wasn't solved by Obamacare. It just brought more pockets into the game for the medical industry to pick.

Add tort reform to that solution as well. 11 cents of every health care dollar goes to litigation. That right there would be enough to cover almost everyone in the country currently without insurance.

[Grim2.0]

My take,

Having a Vasectomy is fucking great, do it whenever and wherever the fuck you want with no risk of getting your lady friend preggers and having an oops that puts a dent in your bank and life (the difference between a planned kid and not is huge).....nothing wrong with that! As it was noted getting a Vasectomy does not effect the gobblty goop you require to give that special someone a Pirate, it just means there are no active swimmers in your shame you look at on the toilet paper after a good rubbin.

I would put my input on healthcare but i have been fortunate pretty much my whole life, i was in the military for 4 years so any medical expense does not exist, i get injured i walk in get treated and walk out. As well because i am a disabled vet being injured in the field the VA covers me for any major surgeries that may arise, (have not needed to exercise that and dont plan to).

I am not in the military any longer however i now work for a Family owned company that is not publicly traded offers profit sharing and covers healthcare for every single one of its employees. I only pay the co-pay of $30 when myself wife of kid have to see the doc. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Gloating done have a nice day :)

[#1Townie]

Hahahaha I don't think bk was saying nothing comes out. More along the lines of that risk factor makes it... Well... Yeah...



And good god people you all have shorter attention spans than I do.

Motorcycle trailer to healthercare. Healthcare to vasectomies.

How about hockey? Can that be next? Lol!!

[Grim2.0]

Hahahaha I don't think bk was saying nothing comes out. More along the lines of that risk factor makes it... Well... Yeah...



And good god people you all have shorter attention spans than I do.

Motorcycle trailer to healthercare. Healthcare to vasectomies.

How about hockey? Can that be next? Lol!!

I know but it was too funny not to type.

[madvlad]

This escalated quickly :lol:

[bulldog]

This really shows how messed up our healthcare is; most expensive but ranks dead last of ten countries. USA and their "for profit" healthcare :down:

It’s fairly well accepted that the U.S. is the most expensive healthcare system in the world, but many continue to falsely assume that we pay more for healthcare because we get better health (or better health outcomes). The evidence, however, clearly doesn’t support that view.
1. United Kingdom
2. Switzerland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Germany & Netherlands (tied)
7. New Zealand & Norway (tied)
9. France
10. Canada
11. United States
More here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/06/16/u-s-healthcare-ranked-dead-last-compared-to-10-other-countries/

Another great article on: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally (http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror) <-click Dead last of all the wealthy countries

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/fund-report/2014/june/davis_mirror_2014_es1_for_web.jpg?h=511&w=740&la=en

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/images/publications/fund-report/2014/june/davis_mirror_intl_ig_rev_616.jpg?la=en

[bulldog]

So now let's look at the #1; United Kingdom healthcare http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx

The NHS was launched in 1948.
It was born out of a long-held ideal that good healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth – a principle (http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/nhscoreprinciples.aspx) that remains at its core. With the exception of some charges, such asprescriptions (http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/Prescriptioncosts.aspx) and optical (http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/Eyecarecosts.aspx) and dental services (http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/Dentalcosts.aspx), the NHS in England remains free at the point of use for anyone who is a UK resident. That is currently more than 64.1 million people in the UK and 53.9 million people in England alone.

[madvlad]

Healthcare in this country sucks dude, all about the benjamins and not actual Healthcare. You go to a doctor and unless you're dying they won't act on things as they should. My mom went for an ongoing knee problem, they kept saying there's nothing wrong, just take advil and you'll be fine, knee problem persisted and they kept saying the same even with further exams and x-ray. One of my uncle friends came up to visit as he does every year, he's a doctor back home and without any equipment he knew exactly what it was, one of her tendons is shorter on that leg than the other causing the severe swelling she kept experiencing on that leg. 4 visits and they refused to say what the problem was, just wanted to keep bleeding my mom dry of her hard earned money. It's bullshit.

[tecknojoe]

The United Kingdom?

When I lived over there last year, I had a few run ins with the NHS. If you're not falling apart, you get nothing. I had a violent cough for 3 months. Every time I went in, it was "come back in a few weeks if it's still bothering you". They just ignore it. When I fell on my hand snowboarding, they said since I can still type (aka do my job), they won't do anything. Come back in a month if it still hurts. No checking to see if it's broken, or that it's all set correctly.

I'd rather spend as much as I do on US healthcare and know that I can make sure my bones are set correctly before they heal and permanently fuck me up. over there it just becomes, "oh yea that one time I wrecked my bike, that's how I got this limp that's completely fixable but unnecessary. It's ok, I can't do the outdoor activities I used to, but I can still do my job so cheers!"

[bulldog]

Healthcare in this country sucks dude, all about the benjamins and not actual Healthcare. You go to a doctor and unless you're dying they won't act on things as they should. My mom went for an ongoing knee problem, they kept saying there's nothing wrong, just take advil and you'll be fine, knee problem persisted and they kept saying the same even with further exams and x-ray. One of my uncle friends came up to visit as he does every year, he's a doctor back home and without any equipment he knew exactly what it was, one of her tendons is shorter on that leg than the other causing the severe swelling she kept experiencing on that leg. 4 visits and they refused to say what the problem was, just wanted to keep bleeding my mom dry of her hard earned money. It's bullshit.
I hear you man. I went nearly a year with sinus infection every month because I had broken my nose so many times before and was obvious I had a deviated septum (you could see it was crooked and I could not breathe out my nose). Took me a year of jumping through hoops before the insurance would approve the surgery. I had to show constant sinus infections that would not go away with antibiotics. Then after months of being sick they finally ok'd a Xray...yet I needed a MRI or CAT. Got the Xray and doctor said we can now ask for a MRI/CAT because this was only done to satisfy the insurance company....of course I had to pay for it when it was BS.

The sad part is I work for this industry and get things done because I know how it works. The average person tends to get screwed because a insurance company will pull every trick to not pay a claim and most times it takes a person appealing over and over. They know this and bottom line is even if they end up having to pay they earned interest on their money in that time. Again goes all back to "profit" and sucks that is how our healthcare system works

P.S. No I am not proud to work in this industry, but it is where my skills are and where I can make a good living :(


The United Kingdom?

When I lived over there last year, I had a few run ins with the NHS. If you're not falling apart, you get nothing. I had a violent cough for 3 months. Every time I went in, it was "come back in a few weeks if it's still bothering you". They just ignore it. When I fell on my hand snowboarding, they said since I can still type (aka do my job), they won't do anything. Come back in a month if it still hurts. No checking to see if it's broken, or that it's all set correctly.

I'd rather spend as much as I do on US healthcare and know that I can make sure my bones are set correctly before they heal and permanently fuck me up. over there it just becomes, "oh yea that one time I wrecked my bike, that's how I got this limp that's completely fixable but unnecessary. It's ok, I can't do the outdoor activities I used to, but I can still do my job so cheers!" :dunno: That is just what my research told me...never even been to UK.

[tecknojoe]

It's free but it's really backed up. It's a good thing that they don't overprescribe meds the way we do, but I very much disagree that it's better care.

glad to get out of there. they have cool racing and good beers, but that's about it

[madvlad]

Looks like it's everywhere then, hopefully Martians have better health care lol

[The Black Knight]

Im guessing you dont have kids... :coffee:

Not that I'm aware of :D

[madvlad]

Blanks ftw :lol:

[Jmetz]

My insurance plan is walking into an ER and saying my name Barn.

[~Barn~]

I think they cover domestic partnerships, but we haven't fucked recently enough to qualify.

[#1Townie]

And it just went there.

[Jmetz]

Horrible. :lol:

[#1Townie]

Guess that's one way to kill a political thread. LOL!!

[Ezzzzy1]

Now we need to move this thread to the Metz blows Barn for domestic partnership thread :lol:

Grim will probably want in on this... :hump:

[Zanatos]

I have a lot of Conservative friends who constantly hate on Obama and complain about the Affordable Care Act. Here is what a typical conversation looks like:

Me: Why do you hate the Affordable Care Act so much?

Conservative: It made my insurance cost a lot more.

Me: That was already happening before Obama came along. Before ACA, insurance premiums had increased an average of 9% per year for more than a decade.

Conservative: That may be true - but I had to change my plan and get a new doctor.

Me: What were your deductibles and co-pays under your old plan?

Conservative: I paid $50 a month with a $20,000 deductible and 60% co-pay.

Me: Holy crap! That's unreasonable and a huge ripoff.

Conservative: Maybe - but I hardly ever get sick. And now I pay $250 a month with a $500 deductible, $40 co-pays for doctor visits, and $25 for prescriptions.

Me: That sounds OK to me.

Conservative: You're crazy! My insurance costs increased by 500%! I have also heard that millions of illegal immigrants are getting Obamacare for free!

Me: What the Hell are you talking about? Obamacare is not government health insurance. It's merely a law that requires people to purchase coverage. How are "illegal immigrants getting it for free"?

Conservative: The same way that moms on welfare with 10 kids get tons of money for free.

Me: That's not happening. Welfare benefits max out at two kids.

Conservative: Where did you hear that lie? MSNBC?

Me: It's right here on the Health and Human Services web site.

Conservative: Damn Liberal media.

[~Barn~]

:lol:

[#1Townie]

I have a lot of Conservative friends who constantly hate on Obama and complain about the Affordable Care Act. Here is what a typical conversation looks like:

Me: Why do you hate the Affordable Care Act so much?

Conservative: It made my insurance cost a lot more.

Me: That was already happening before Obama came along. Before ACA, insurance premiums had increased an average of 9% per year for more than a decade.

Conservative: That may be true - but I had to change my plan and get a new doctor.

Me: What were your deductibles and co-pays under your old plan?

Conservative: I paid $50 a month with a $20,000 deductible and 60% co-pay.

Me: Holy crap! That's unreasonable and a huge ripoff.

Conservative: Maybe - but I hardly ever get sick. And now I pay $250 a month with a $500 deductible, $40 co-pays for doctor visits, and $25 for prescriptions.

Me: That sounds OK to me.

Conservative: You're crazy! My insurance costs increased by 500%! I have also heard that millions of illegal immigrants are getting Obamacare for free!

Me: What the Hell are you talking about? Obamacare is not government health insurance. It's merely a law that requires people to purchase coverage. How are "illegal immigrants getting it for free"?

Conservative: The same way that moms on welfare with 10 kids get tons of money for free.

Me: That's not happening. Welfare benefits max out at two kids.

Conservative: Where did you hear that lie? MSNBC?

Me: It's right here on the Health and Human Services web site.

Conservative: Damn Liberal media.

You know I truly hate people like you. With your "teams". Red or blue its all the same shit. Left or right it doesn't fucking matter. Your teams have truly fucked this country up.

So let me ask you this. I'm 32 and in good health. I don't use a doctor. I don't get flu shots. I don't cry when I get sick and beg for meds. I don't want health insurance.

Why should I be FORCED to pay for something I never intend to use? Oh blah blah what if you get cancer... Honestly fuck it. I don't care. Its my life and I will CHOOSE to live it my way.

For real man I'm sorry but I don't care about other people and their needs. Not one fuck shall be given. Why? Because I just don't. I've done my good deeds. I've done what I can.

I'm sick and tired of my life having to change to protect or take care of Aome motherfucker across the country who didn't do it for themselves.

Some welfare baby that has had their family on the welfare program for generations. Some illegal that gets everything for nothing. Some drug dealer that uses food stamps but makes more money than I do.

You want the truth about this beloved Obama? He's a fucking liar. He's done jack shit for the people of this country and has simply ran up a bill having concerts at his house.

What a complete shame and I feel sorry for any of you party affiliated people who actually think your teams are doing anything to better any of our problems.

So yeah that's why I hate obamacare. Its a joke. I hate Obama because I hate liars and cowards. I hate our government because they are all bought and paid for by the same corporations that screw over you and I everyday.

But no we will keep following down this same path of what can be considered a new form of slavery. With the illusion of FREEDOM. The illusion that we actually have a say in who runs our government.

So to end this in the same smartass way you posted.

Me. Why do you keep voting for the same groups of people.

Red/blue team... Because they have the same interests as I do.

Me... What's that? Selling our country to China? Taking away our rights? Raising taxes so they can go on another vacation? Starting wars all over the world? Giving your money away to foreign countries that end up turning on us?

Red/blue team. Those are all lies. Stop listening to fox/CNN news.

[tecknojoe]

So let me ask you this. I'm 32 and in good health. I don't use a doctor. I don't get flu shots. I don't cry when I get sick and beg for meds. I don't want health insurance.

Why should I be FORCED to pay for something I never intend to use? Oh blah blah what if you get cancer... Honestly fuck it. I don't care. Its my life and I will CHOOSE to live it my way.


Right. "oh no insurance, dump him back out"

I'm sure you'll say that when you have a broken arm after a car accident


I'm not pro ACA btw, it has good and bad

[Kim-n-Dean]

You know I truly hate people like you. With your "teams". Red or blue its all the same shit. Left or right it doesn't fucking matter. Your teams have truly fucked this country up.

So let me ask you this. I'm 32 and in good health. I don't use a doctor. I don't get flu shots. I don't cry when I get sick and beg for meds. I don't want health insurance.

Why should I be FORCED to pay for something I never intend to use? Oh blah blah what if you get cancer... Honestly fuck it. I don't care. Its my life and I will CHOOSE to live it my way.

For real man I'm sorry but I don't care about other people and their needs. Not one fuck shall be given. Why? Because I just don't. I've done my good deeds. I've done what I can.

I'm sick and tired of my life having to change to protect or take care of Aome motherfucker across the country who didn't do it for themselves.

Some welfare baby that has had their family on the welfare program for generations. Some illegal that gets everything for nothing. Some drug dealer that uses food stamps but makes more money than I do.

You want the truth about this beloved Obama? He's a fucking liar. He's done jack shit for the people of this country and has simply ran up a bill having concerts at his house.

What a complete shame and I feel sorry for any of you party affiliated people who actually think your teams are doing anything to better any of our problems.

So yeah that's why I hate obamacare. Its a joke. I hate Obama because I hate liars and cowards. I hate our government because they are all bought and paid for by the same corporations that screw over you and I everyday.

But no we will keep following down this same path of what can be considered a new form of slavery. With the illusion of FREEDOM. The illusion that we actually have a say in who runs our government.

So to end this in the same smartass way you posted.

Me. Why do you keep voting for the same groups of people.

Red/blue team... Because they have the same interests as I do.

Me... What's that? Selling our country to China? Taking away our rights? Raising taxes so they can go on another vacation? Starting wars all over the world? Giving your money away to foreign countries that end up turning on us?

Red/blue team. Those are all lies. Stop listening to fox/CNN news.:yes::applause::imwithstupid: However, being a rock climber and riding dirt bikes, I will always have insurance...

[#1Townie]

Right. "oh no insurance, dump him back out"

I'm sure you'll say that when you have a broken arm after a car accident


I'm not pro ACA btw, it has good and bad

Ummmm that's what auto insurance is for. And I pay for very good auto. Just for that.

[bulldog]

The funny part is we have had government healthcare for many years......it is called Medicare and Medicaid.

Medicare = disabled, over 65, and ESRD (kidney problems)
Medicaid = low income

Yes not everyone qualifies, but that was put in place many years ago to show we do offer assistance. I am down for helping people, but the liars and scammers have jammed up this system. There may be a cap on welfare (not sure), but there definitely is no cap on how many kids can go on Medicaid. I once brought up "preventative pregnancy" and was basically told because of religious reasons we could not do that. Yet these morally religious people are perfectly fine having 8 kids that they cannot afford....so it all goes to the taxpayers (the ones actually working hard). There is a point to helping people and then there is a point where we have a broken system like right now. Just the fact that healthcare in this country is "for profit" should show this is a business and not about actual healthcare. It is sad, but these insurance companies do not care and their goal is profit, profit, profit.

I do think people should have a choice to get healthcare; like Townie. The issue is a lot of people do not have the same stance and will not go to the doctor because they do not have insurance. Instead they go in and do not pay their bill and then the hospital is stuck with it....which then gets passed on to the consumer. Now if we could deny people that did not have insurance and did not show up with cash, then that may work better. Kind of like Townie said it sucks we have to make up for others.....some people deserve help, but I feel we got a huge majority that do not. Hell I have aunt on disability for 20+ years yet she goes and runs 10+ miles a day at the gym; really makes me think there is some job she could do if she can do that....plus when did a disability stop the mind from functioning and make some of these people not be able to work at all.

Townie, I will say you are taking a huge risk......BUT, like you said it should be your choice. I see healthcare bills and they add up super fast so it is a huge risk if you ask me. And I don't mean for a cold, flu, etc....just that one car accident a person can get into scares me. I was in a bad one when I was 18 and was in hospital for a week. OMG, without insurance I bet I'd still be paying that off 18 years later. I admit though, I am not a big gambler though.....



Ummmm that's what auto insurance is for. And I pay for very good auto. Just for that. From what I know, the only way a auto policy will pay for this is if the other party is at fault. I think if you are at fault then medical is not covered under your auto policy. I could be wrong, but swore that is how it works; TPL (third party liability)

[tecknojoe]

Ummmm that's what auto insurance is for. And I pay for very good auto. Just for that.

ugh

that is one example of a million different ways people get hurt

[bulldog]

I am a researcher so had to find out. :lol:

Good Link on it....appears in a few no-fault states a "PIP" plan can be purchased, but appears as if it is not a standard plan. Townie only telling you this so it doesn't catch you by surprise if you do not have one of these plans http://www.dmv.org/insurance/how-to-cover-medical-expenses-through-car-insurance.php

Not sure what status Nevada falls under :dunno:


Liability Bodily Injury Coverage

Nearly every state in the country requires that every car driven on its public roads be insured with liability insurance (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/liability-insurance.php). Your state will have a set minimum requirement (http://www.dmv.org/car-insurance.php) for how much liability insurance you must have.*
Liability coverage consists of two parts:


Bodily injury coverage: Pays for medical costs associated with injuries suffered by others in an accident you cause.

It is important to understand that this coverage does not pay for your own injuries.


Property damage coverage: Pays for damage to another person's property (e.g., vehicle) in an accident you cause
When you're injured, the at-fault driver's bodily injury coverage will pay your medical expenses. If you are at fault, you'll have to use one of the coverages below.



Personal Injury Protection (PIP)

Personal injury protection (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/personal-injury-protection.php), or what many refer to as "no-fault insurance," will cover your medical costs regardless of fault. It is available in no-fault states. (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/fault-and-no-fault-insurance.php)
In addition to medical costs, PIP also covers:



EDIT: According to this link Nevada is not a "no-fault" and is a "tort" state
Is Nevada a No-fault State for Car Insurance?

Nevada is not a no-fault state when it comes to car insurance. It is a tort state, which means that injured people have the right to sue to collect damages following an accident. An investigation after the event will determine which driver as “at fault,” and it is this driver’s auto insurance company that will be responsible for paying for injuries sustained in the accident.http://www.promiga.com/2010/07/is-nevada-a-no-fault-state-for-car-insurance/


P.S. Don't attack me....honestly trying to help you Townie as I hate when people think they have coverage and they do not. Of course I could be wrong as this was a simple 10 min search and it really would come down to your auto policy but may be good to call and check.

[madvlad]

:yes::applause::imwithstupid: However, being a rock climber and riding dirt bikes, I will always have insurance...

With extreme sports and riding bikes a good insurance coverage is a must

[Kim-n-Dean]

With extreme sports and riding bikes a good insurance coverage is a mustI'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, because I know some of these people, but it really pisses me off that someone will race without insurance, and then get hurt and the CSC has to "take up a collection" to help cover medical expenses. Very irresponsible!! Sounds cold, but we never donate because of principle...

[#1Townie]

I am a researcher so had to find out. :lol:

Good Link on it....appears in a few no-fault states a "PIP" plan can be purchased, but appears as if it is not a standard plan. Townie only telling you this so it doesn't catch you by surprise if you do not have one of these plans http://www.dmv.org/insurance/how-to-cover-medical-expenses-through-car-insurance.php

Not sure what status Nevada falls under :dunno:


Liability Bodily Injury Coverage

Nearly every state in the country requires that every car driven on its public roads be insured with liability insurance (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/liability-insurance.php). Your state will have a set minimum requirement (http://www.dmv.org/car-insurance.php) for how much liability insurance you must have.*
Liability coverage consists of two parts:


Bodily injury coverage: Pays for medical costs associated with injuries suffered by others in an accident you cause.

It is important to understand that this coverage does not pay for your own injuries.


Property damage coverage: Pays for damage to another person's property (e.g., vehicle) in an accident you cause
When you're injured, the at-fault driver's bodily injury coverage will pay your medical expenses. If you are at fault, you'll have to use one of the coverages below.



Personal Injury Protection (PIP)

Personal injury protection (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/personal-injury-protection.php), or what many refer to as "no-fault insurance," will cover your medical costs regardless of fault. It is available in no-fault states. (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/fault-and-no-fault-insurance.php)
In addition to medical costs, PIP also covers:



EDIT: According to this link Nevada is not a "no-fault" and is a "tort" state
Is Nevada a No-fault State for Car Insurance?

Nevada is not a no-fault state when it comes to car insurance. It is a tort state, which means that injured people have the right to sue to collect damages following an accident. An investigation after the event will determine which driver as “at fault,” and it is this driver’s auto insurance company that will be responsible for paying for injuries sustained in the accident.http://www.promiga.com/2010/07/is-nevada-a-no-fault-state-for-car-insurance/


P.S. Don't attack me....honestly trying to help you Townie as I hate when people think they have coverage and they do not. Of course I could be wrong as this was a simple 10 min search and it really would come down to your auto policy but may be good to call and check.


Yes that's what I have.

[TFOGGuys]

Ok...here's my numbers

Pre ACA: Employer contribution: 378 a month(wife's work), my cost $180ish, 250 annual deductible, $30 copay for PCP visit, $40 for specialist, $100 for ER.

Post ACA: Employer contribution $497, my cost $244, $750 annual deductible, $40 PCP co-pay, $55 specialist, $150 ER, 20% coinsurance up to 5K.

So, in summary, I'm paying a fuckload more for worse coverage. If I had the same crash that I had in Jan. 2013 today, the difference in out of pocket expenses would be almost $7K. I'm not eligible for the government subsidies that the ACA provides for, and the money to finance those for the people that qualify has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the 53% of us that pay actual income taxes.

[bulldog]

Yes that's what I have. From what I read a "PIP" is only good in no-fault states though :dunno:


Ok...here's my numbers

Pre ACA: Employer contribution: 378 a month(wife's work), my cost $180ish, 250 annual deductible, $30 copay for PCP visit, $40 for specialist, $100 for ER.

Post ACA: Employer contribution $497, my cost $244, $750 annual deductible, $40 PCP co-pay, $55 specialist, $150 ER, 20% coinsurance up to 5K.

So, in summary, I'm paying a fuckload more for worse coverage. If I had the same crash that I had in Jan. 2013 today, the difference in out of pocket expenses would be almost $7K. I'm not eligible for the government subsidies that the ACA provides for, and the money to finance those for the people that qualify has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the 53% of us that pay actual income taxes. The stats I see show that healthcare did not go up that much since ACA went into effect. I bet it is your employer that is sticking you with the higher cost!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/image/healthcostschart.jpg.png
A new report this week from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services had a lot to say about the state of health care costs and what it means for our economy. New estimates show that national health expenditures rose at historically slow rates (http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/09/03/new-report-shows-slow-health-care-spending-growth-continued-2013-while-near-term-tre) in 2013 and American businesses and consumers will continue to see slow cost growth over the next few years, even as millions gain health insurance coverage under the Affordable Care Act.
This week’s Chart of the Week uses the most up-to-date data to break down what’s going on with health care costs for employers and the Medicare program. Right now, employers’ inflation-adjusted health benefit costs are up just 1 percent on a year-over-year basis, among the lowest rates recorded historically. This slow growth in employer health costs helps businesses create jobs and pay a good wage. At the same time, Medicare spending per beneficiary is actually falling in inflation-adjusted terms, which is helping keep premiums low for beneficiaries and bringing down our deficit.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/09/05/chart-week-health-care-costs-rising-exceptionally-slow-rates

[bulldog]

I hate to say it, but this is another reason healthcare is so high in this country; obesity. The citizens are to blame too....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg/800px-Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg.png

#1 Killer in America;

Heart disease: 611,105
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

[Grim2.0]

Now we need to move this thread to the Metz blows Barn for domestic partnership thread :lol:

Grim will probably want in on this... :hump:

I want in on you:harrrrr:

[bulldog]

I want in on you:harrrrr: :spit: Not sure if this is homo or fighting words :lol:

Either way I see some healthcare coverage needed
http://rs234.pbsrc.com/albums/ee105/Prometheus364/Emoticons/Gay%20Emoticons/sexslave.gif~c200

[The Black Knight]

I want in on you:harrrrr:

This thread has gotten really gay, let's get it back on track where it should be....


The only thing you should be wanting to get in on, is what's pictured below :D

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/Stuff/NewAnchor_zps6a3496ba.jpg

[Ph03niX]

I hate to say it, but this is another reason healthcare is so high in this country; obesity. The citizens are to blame too....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg/800px-Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg.png

#1 Killer in America;

Heart disease: 611,105
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm


Daaaaang I didnt know that. Where'd you get this graph?

[#1Townie]

I hate to say it, but this is another reason healthcare is so high in this country; obesity. The citizens are to blame too....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg/800px-Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg.png

#1 Killer in America;

Heart disease: 611,105
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm


I would say cancer probably has heart disease beat. Well money wise anyways. Heart disease really doesn't kill much more people than cancer.

[bulldog]

I would say cancer probably has heart disease beat. Well money wise anyways. Heart disease really doesn't kill much more people than cancer. Not according to stats; maybe you missed the link I posted
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm

Per the CDC:
Number of deaths for leading causes of death



Heart disease: 611,105
Cancer: 584,881
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 149,205
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 130,557
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,978
Alzheimer's disease: 84,767
Diabetes: 75,578
Influenza and Pneumonia: 56,979
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 47,112
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 41,149


But you can even argue cancer is increased by obesity; especially in men. Cancer loves estrogen so that is why breast cancer is one of the top cancers people get (yes men get breast cancer). In men high estrogen increases the chances of cancer by 70%!

Obesity is associated with increased risks of the following cancer types, and possibly others as well:


Esophagus
Pancreas
Colon and rectum
Breast (after menopause)
Endometrium (lining of the uterus)
Kidney
Thyroid
Gallbladder

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/obesity

I think we all know obesity is a major problem in this country and it could be why our healthcare is higher :dunno:

[#1Townie]

Please go reread what I posted. I said money wise. As in treatment. As in the cost of dealing with such things.

And you truly can't link cancer to any one thing. Plenty of athletes in top notch shape have goten it. None smokers with lung cancer. Smokers who have lived their entire lives never getting cancer.

Honestly man you can't link anything together. If you could we would beat it by now.

[bulldog]

Please go reread what I posted. I said money wise. As in treatment. As in the cost of dealing with such things.

And you truly can't link cancer to any one thing. Plenty of athletes in top notch shape have goten it. None smokers with lung cancer. Smokers who have lived their entire lives never getting cancer.

Honestly man you can't link anything together. If you could we would beat it by now. It's been proven man. This is no conspiracy theory as the National Cancer Society clearly even states it:



Fat tissue produces excess amounts of estrogen, high levels of which have been associated with the risk of breast, endometrial, and some other cancers.
Obese people often have increased levels of insulin and insulin-like growth factor (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=CDR0000653119&version=Patient&language=English)-1 (IGF-1) in their blood (a condition known as hyperinsulinemia or insulin resistance), which may promote the development of certain tumors.
Fat cells produce hormones, called adipokines, that may stimulate or inhibit cell growth. For example, leptin, which is more abundant in obese people, seems to promote cell proliferation, whereas adiponectin, which is less abundant in obese people, may have antiproliferative effects.
Fat cells may also have direct and indirect effects on other tumor growth regulators, including mammalian target of rapamycin (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=CDR0000653127&version=Patient&language=English) (mTOR) and AMP-activated protein kinase (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=CDR0000641114&version=Patient&language=English).
Obese people often have chronic low-level, or “subacute,” inflammation, which has been associated with increased cancer risk.




But ok, here we go:



The ten events or conditions that are most commonly expensive are as follows. These are average costs, so many patients even with these conditions will not reach the $100,000 per year mark:
1. HIV $25,000
2. Cancer $49,000
3. Transplant $51,00
4. Stroke $61,000
5 Hemophilia $62,000
6. Heart Attack including Cardiac Revascularization (Angioplasty with or without Stent) $72,000
7. Coronary Artery Disease $75,000
8. Neonate (premature baby) with extreme problems $101,000
9. End-Stage Renal Disease $173,000
10. Respiratory Failure on Ventilator $314,000

I was surprised how low cancer was on the list. The report provides a bit more detail. If you have cancer that’s not being intensively treated (no chemotherapy, no surgery) it costs only $14,000 a year. This would apply to 40% of total cancer patients. However, cancer patients who receive surgery or chemotherapy (15% of the total) cost $123,000 on average. It wasn’t clear how the other 35% are classified.

The most expensive condition, respiratory failure on a ventilator, is another way of describing the intensive care that patients receive at the end of life for a variety of conditions. Kidney failure may be from diabetes or hypertension, both of which could have been preventable.

[~Barn~]

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[#1Townie]

It's been proven man. This is no conspiracy theory as the National Cancer Society clearly even states it:



Fat tissue produces excess amounts of estrogen, high levels of which have been associated with the risk of breast, endometrial, and some other cancers.
Obese people often have increased levels of insulin and insulin-like growth factor (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=CDR0000653119&version=Patient&language=English)-1 (IGF-1) in their blood (a condition known as hyperinsulinemia or insulin resistance), which may promote the development of certain tumors.
Fat cells produce hormones, called adipokines, that may stimulate or inhibit cell growth. For example, leptin, which is more abundant in obese people, seems to promote cell proliferation, whereas adiponectin, which is less abundant in obese people, may have antiproliferative effects.
Fat cells may also have direct and indirect effects on other tumor growth regulators, including mammalian target of rapamycin (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=CDR0000653127&version=Patient&language=English) (mTOR) and AMP-activated protein kinase (http://www.cancer.gov/Common/PopUps/popDefinition.aspx?id=CDR0000641114&version=Patient&language=English).
Obese people often have chronic low-level, or “subacute,” inflammation, which has been associated with increased cancer risk.




But ok, here we go:



The ten events or conditions that are most commonly expensive are as follows. These are average costs, so many patients even with these conditions will not reach the $100,000 per year mark:
1. HIV $25,000
2. Cancer $49,000
3. Transplant $51,00
4. Stroke $61,000
5 Hemophilia $62,000
6. Heart Attack including Cardiac Revascularization (Angioplasty with or without Stent) $72,000
7. Coronary Artery Disease $75,000
8. Neonate (premature baby) with extreme problems $101,000
9. End-Stage Renal Disease $173,000
10. Respiratory Failure on Ventilator $314,000

I was surprised how low cancer was on the list. The report provides a bit more detail. If you have cancer that’s not being intensively treated (no chemotherapy, no surgery) it costs only $14,000 a year. This would apply to 40% of total cancer patients. However, cancer patients who receive surgery or chemotherapy (15% of the total) cost $123,000 on average. It wasn’t clear how the other 35% are classified.

The most expensive condition, respiratory failure on a ventilator, is another way of describing the intensive care that patients receive at the end of life for a variety of conditions. Kidney failure may be from diabetes or hypertension, both of which could have been preventable.

And where does it show that if you live a perfect healthy life you want get cancer or any other disease?

[bulldog]

And where does it show that if you live a perfect healthy life you want get cancer or any other disease? Huh??? The point was obesity has a huge effect on increase of cancer. You stated it was not, but I have proven it is a fact! it is also common sense that a healthy lifestyle is better for your health in general.

Not to mention I proved your "money wise" wrong about cancer too. Just look at the one associated with cardiovascular and it is quite clear cancer doesn't cost all that much. Rarely do cancer patients go into ICU, but nearly anyone with a major heart attack does and that is where the huge number increases. Open heart surgery....we are talking in the 100's of thousands just for the surgery!

Bottom line is citizens complain, but do they really take care of themselves as much as they can. And when they didn't they cry their healthcare is so high, but in reality a lot of that was done to themselves...yet all this blame on healthcare and Obama Just funny to me people don't take responsibility for their actions. Alcoholic or drug addict; same thing...exactly why they are not eligible for organ transplants (takes three years to show you are clean before they even put you on list; last on list)

[~Barn~]

:lol: I love how you so casually advocate both sides of the story Townie, and don't even realize you're doing it.

On one hand you'll tell us about how you're in good health, relatively young, don't use doctors or get sick that often, don't get flu shots, live basically a healthy life, etc. You use these examples for how insurance is not for you, and you shouldn't be required to have it by virtue of free will.

And then on the other hand you'll just as easily cite how you can be in good health, not need doctors, live a basically healthy life, be young and still ultimately contract a life altering disease or condition; something like cancer for instance. And you honestly want us to believe that if this does in fact happen to you (see points 1. and 2.) that you will just suck it up and it will be your choice to say "fuck it, this is the hand I was dealt", and not even consider getting treatment or having a procedure that might cure you. Or even the possibility of being administered a medicine that might improve your quality of life. :roll:

Such bullshit. I don't buy it one bit.

[bulldog]

Not to mention it is not always choice. For example you are driving to work today and you wreck but are knocked unconscious. EMT's do not stop to see if you have insurance or even care; their job is to save your life. So you wake up hours later already in the hospital and your bill has already started. Just like this you are now part of this problem because with no health insurance they will give YOU the entire bill and they do not care. I believe a lot of ACA is to help stop this because a $100k bill can usually ruin any family.....happens everyday. With some insurance at least this situation could be much better.

[~Barn~]

I'm sure he has his Do Not Resuscitate wishes plainly visible in his wallet or on a med-bracelet.

[TFOGGuys]

Not to mention it is not always choice. For example you are driving to work today and you wreck but are knocked unconscious. EMT's do not stop to see if you have insurance or even care; their job is to save your life. So you wake up hours later already in the hospital and your bill has already started. Just like this you are now part of this problem because with no health insurance they will give YOU the entire bill and they do not care. I believe a lot of ACA is to help stop this because a $100k bill can usually ruin any family.....happens everyday. With some insurance at least this situation could be much better.

When I had my crash, they billed over $53K in the first hour. Total ended up being about $112K.

Where things get weird is when you see what the insurance company paid vs. what was billed initially. Total payout by the insurance companies(med pay on my bike insurance +Cigna health insurance) was about $41K. The health industry inflates their costs outrageously so that when they have an indigent patient they can write off a much higher amount for tax purposes. Realistically, anyone who pays the face value of their health care bill without negotiation is an idiot. Having helped others in this regard, I will state categorically that most hospitals will discount the bill 40-60% without batting an eye, just because someone squawks.

[#1Townie]

Ohhhh you guys have a response coming. Don't worry.

[~Barn~]

Dear Editor.

What's the statute of limitations on promised responses? CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION!

[#1Townie]

Dear Editor.

What's the statute of limitations on promised responses? CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION!

Oh I'm sorry barn. I've had to work today. I don't have time to write the million long page response to answer both of you.

But you won't like what I have to say anyways so you may as well not come back in here.

[Ezzzzy1]

Wait for it.... :wait::nuke:

[The Black Knight]

Thing I like about Townie is he's a straight shooter. He says what's on his mind and you always know where you stand with him.

I'm with you Townie on Obamacare. I hate it and think it's a waste of time. I see it primarily from the government side as well(I work for local government). It has severely impacted our ability to keep temp/hourly/seasonal employees around because of the 1500 hour rule.

Only thing Obamacare has done, is made America a nation of "part time" job workers. Hence why people are now scrambling to secure that 2nd or 3rd job just to make ends meet. Companies are now forced to let them go just before the 1500 hour deadline in order to keep their healthcare costs down for their "permanent/full time" employees.

[Nolan]

I call bullshit on all of it. Business isn't forced to do shit. They now have an excuse on why they will never hire you full time because of the cost of health-care. So every six months go ahead and fire you. Wait 30 days and why not try again? (I don't know but sounds reasonable). My company (UPS) covers domestic partnership BUT if you're management and your spouse has available coverage at their job then Ups cuts them. Then there's the shitty plans that people are getting. What the fuck does a $5000 deductible do for someone making $10 an hour? It's just lining the insurance company's pockets. Now why don't companies just hire contract workers? It defrays the cost to someone else. How many small businesses would it take to staff a Walmart? Fed-ex started the model that the tech industry has followed.
It's just a musical chair game for coverage and money.
The only ones winning are the stockholders.
Yeah. A bit rambling. Full of bs. Just another thing to keep us pee-ons focused on not changing the guard that make up this stupid shit. Like laws banning fucking yoga pants.
You only need 25% of the eligible voters to get what you want.....which is to keep us busy focusing on the shit that isn't changing.

[The Black Knight]

I call bullshit on all of it. Business isn't forced to do shit. They now have an excuse on why they will never hire you full time because of the cost of health-care. So every six months go ahead and fire you. Wait 30 days and why not try again? (I don't know but sounds reasonable). My company (UPS) covers domestic partnership BUT if you're management and your spouse has available coverage at their job then Ups cuts them. Then there's the shitty plans that people are getting. What the fuck does a $5000 deductible do for someone making $10 an hour? It's just lining the insurance company's pockets. Now why don't companies just hire contract workers? It defrays the cost to someone else. How many small businesses would it take to staff a Walmart? Fed-ex started the model that the tech industry has followed.
It's just a musical chair game for coverage and money.
The only ones winning are the stockholders.
Yeah. A bit rambling. Full of bs. Just another thing to keep us pee-ons focused on not changing the guard that make up this stupid shit. Like laws banning fucking yoga pants.
You only need 25% of the eligible voters to get what you want.....which is to keep us busy focusing on the shit that isn't changing.

Not quite, business are being forced to create "part time" workforces now. Why?? Because of the cost to insure everyone under their umbrella now. Sure it's fine to force companies to provide healthcare to everyone that works for them. However, where do you think those costs that are generated from more employees now receiving full benefits going to come from? The cost will be passed on to the consumer.

In government cases, the costs are passed on to the tax payer or the rate payer. You want everyone to have health care and now your local government agency has to provide healthcare to all of its workers(not just full time/permanent). Well now your taxes go up, or your utility rates go up.

You're asking all companies(Private and Municipal) to cover costs without receiving an infusion of capital or revenue to cover those new costs.

So when Safeway or King Soopers is now forced to cover all its employees, the prices on groceries goes up. Guess who foots the bill?? The Consumer...

Then we've got this idiot Administration pushing for minimum wage to be $15hr. Well that's all fine and great(and I'm all for everyone being able to make a living) the problem however lies in that if you push the minimum wage ceiling to $15, the cost is then passed on down the line to afford those "new wages".

So now it's a double whammy, businesses alike are getting slapped on both sides of the face. On one side you want them to provide healthcare for everyone, then on the other side you want them to raise the minimum wage pay. Then you expect them to keep these people employed 365 days a year, with full bene's and higher pay. The money for all that has to come from somewhere. Guess again?? the Consumer is going to foot the bill for all that too.

I agree with you, the astronomical deductibles are outrageous and something needs to be done to rein the healthcare companies being able to charge exorbitant premiums and deductibles. But that's a whole other ball of wax to get into. Obamacare doesn't do anything to rein in ridiculous costs. If anything, it's caused costs to sky-rocket because of the restrictions it's placed on companies.

Forcing people to pay for other people's problems does nothing more than to drive up the costs of everything else.



Lastly, any laws banning Yoga Pants are total BS!!! And people that promote it should be burned at the stake.



There's not a reason to ever want to ban this:


http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/YogaPants_zpsev8i58wq.jpg

:D

[Nolan]

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/YogaPants_zpsev8i58wq.jpg

:D

Yeah, I can get behind this argument all damn day.

Just an unfocused rant was all. This push to raise the minimum wage is just a race towards the bottom. If you're really worth $15/hr to flip fucking burgers I should make at least $5/hr scratching my nuts.

[Zanatos]

Middle-class and poor workers have not had a real increase in income for more than 10 years, but inflation has kept prices rising. This has resulted in millions of hard-working people LOSING income year after year.

Also - the best way to stimulate the economy is to make sure that consumers can afford the necessities of life - especially the ones who work full-time jobs. Tax breaks for corporations and CEOs don't work because it makes no sense to expand one's business and hire more people when the demand for products is not there. So - when a corporation gets a tax windfall, it goes into the bank, where it remains until the economy begins to improve.

But if a poor person gets a tax windfall, they use it all to get their car fixed, buy shoes for their kid, splurge on a night out, etc. It immediately gets injected into the economy - increasing demand for good and services and causing the economy to improve. Then businesses begin to hire more people, and those people have money to spend which further increases demand for goods and services, etc., etc.

If you look at economic trends - states that have voluntarily increased minimum wages have generally experienced greater economic prosperity. It's Economics 101. You can Google the statistics if you like. It doesn't have shit to do with red and blue. It's just common sense.

As far as insurance goes - nobody wants to buy expensive health care when they are in their 20s - but everyone eventually gets old and needs it.

Maybe there should be a law that says you can opt out of health insurance at age 21 - but if you ever need health care, you have to pay cash in advance. And if you decide you want insurance when you turn 50 or 60, then that is just tough shit.

[madvlad]

Middle-class and poor workers have not had a real increase in income for more than 10 years, but inflation has kept prices rising. This has resulted in millions of hard-working people LOSING income year after year.

Also - the best way to stimulate the economy is to make sure that consumers can afford the necessities of life - especially the ones who work full-time jobs. Tax breaks for corporations and CEOs don't work because it makes no sense to expand one's business and hire more people when the demand for products is not there. So - when a corporation gets a tax windfall, it goes into the bank, where it remains until the economy begins to improve.

But if a poor person gets a tax windfall, they use it all to get their car fixed, buy shoes for their kid, splurge on a night out, etc. It immediately gets injected into the economy - increasing demand for good and services and causing the economy to improve. Then businesses begin to hire more people, and those people have money to spend which further increases demand for goods and services, etc., etc.

If you look at economic trends - states that have voluntarily increased minimum wages have generally experienced greater economic prosperity. It's Economics 101. You can Google the statistics if you like. It doesn't have shit to do with red and blue. It's just common sense....

:yes:

[Ezzzzy1]

Didnt want to mess up the insurance convo over here so I started a yoga pant thread HERE (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?53599-Yoga-pants-(Depends-on-where-you-work-but-im-guessing-NSFW)&p=767565#post767565)

[madvlad]

Didnt want to mess up the insurance convo over here so I started a yoga pant thread HERE (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?53599-Yoga-pants-(Depends-on-where-you-work-but-im-guessing-NSFW)&p=767565#post767565)

Approved by the Obama care administration :lol:

[#1Townie]

fml lost my post. forgot that on those long posts you have to copy them and refresh the page.

heres the basics.

nate you proved jack shit. you showed me a average cost. not total. bring total numbers to state your fact. and also you must include that out of all those heart issues they were caused by what you say. prove your statement.

barn. fuck you and your comment about me needing a dnr. that's a fucked up statement. but with the country heading is such a great direction I will sit back and enjoy watching your life crumble around you. enjoy the direction you fucking sheep. I honestly cant stand you even coming close to trying to come have conversations in threads like this.

if bush had pulled this shit you would have freaked the fuck out. your a fucking sheep that seems to think its shit doesn't stink. I still remember the days of the past and how your coined the term "barned". get off my dick and go check yourself because its fucking sad.


honestly man I have no respect for hypocrites. none. not even a little. and yes I used to argue with you about the patriot act. I was young and dumb. I admit my errors. but you. no. we have the patriot act ten fucking fold and you are just as happy as a pig in shit. fucking enjoy it man. I honestly cant wait for the next four years when your team is out of the white house and you are back to bitching because you are nothing more than a fucking follower.

[#1Townie]

Oh and barn your comment about me arguing both sides. No I didn't. You took two different arguments and tried to make them the same. I never said it wasn't a gamble not to have insurance. I said it should be my choice.

That has and is and always will be. Amazing how you are okay with the government forcing you to buy something but freak out at the though bush was listening to your phonecalls. Oh and I guess its okay that Obama does it too because you have said dick about that.


But really you can't say I didn't say it wasn't a gamble. You can go back and read my post that says I may need it and may not. I still stand by that statement.

[Kim-n-Dean]

I still remember the days of the past and how your coined the term "barned".Actually, that was me that started that term...

[#1Townie]

Actually, that was me that started that term...

Lol no I'm more talking about the event that created that entire show. Not saying he made that term himself. Well he kind of did.

Just talking shit for wishing such a thing on someone.

[bulldog]

nate you proved jack shit. you showed me a average cost. not total. bring total numbers to state your fact. and also you must include that out of all those heart issues they were caused by what you say. prove your statement. Nice...I love proving my points :lol:

So let's remember the argument here was for obesity so I will show proof that obesity has a direct effect on getting these conditions; therefore raising Amercian helathcare since we are #1 country for obesity (again your argument of cancer is one of these, so basically you are backing up what I say even if cancer does cost more a year):



More than 65 million adults and 10 million children suffer from obesity, considered one of the leading causes of life-threatening diseases. Being morbidly obese can compromise your health, shorten your life, and even cause death. If you are overweight, the probabilities of developing heart disease, diabetes, and high blood pressure increase significantly. Here are the top 10 obesity-related diseases.

1. High Blood Pressure — High blood pressure (http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/guide/understanding-high-blood-pressure-basics) is the primary cause of death among Americans older than 25. About 75 million people suffer from high blood pressure or hypertension, which is a major risk factor for heart disease. Blood pressure tends to increase with weight gain and age. It is not known why obesity is a major cause of high blood pressure. However, research has shown that obese patients displayed an increase in blood volume and arterial resistance. For people who are overweight and have high blood pressure, losing as little as 8 pounds can help reduce blood pressure to a safe level.
2. Diabetes Obesity is considered one of the most significant factors in the development of insulin resistance, and insulin resistance can lead to type 2 diabetes (http://www.mediweightlossclinics.com/patients/program/acute-DM-diabetic-program/). According to the World Health Organization, more than 90 percent of diabetes patients worldwide have type 2 diabetes. Being overweight or obese contributes to the development of diabetes by making cells more resistant to the effects of insulin. A weight loss of 15-20 pounds can help you decrease your risk of developing type 2 diabetes. Read:Exercising with Diabetes (https://www.mediweightlossclinics.com/patients/resources/articles/Exercising-with-Diabetes/).
3. Heart Disease — According to the American Heart Association (http://www.heart.org/), obesity is a major risk factor for developing coronary heart disease, which can lead to a heart attack or stroke. People who are overweight are at a greater risk of suffering a heart attack before the age of 45. Obese adolescents have a greater chance of having a heart attack before the age of 35 than non-obese adolescents. If you are overweight, losing 10-15 pounds can reduce your risk of developing heart disease. If you exercise regularly, the risk of developing heart disease falls even more. Read: Benefits of Cardiovascular Exercise (http://www.mediweightlossclinics.com/patients/resources/articles/benefits-of-cardio/).
4. High Cholesterol levels — High cholesterol is one of the leading causes of heart attacks. Cholesterol is transported through your blood in two ways: the low –density lipoprotein (LDL), which transports cholesterol to the cells that need it, and the high-density lipoprotein (HDL), which is the healthy cholesterol that reduces your risk for heart attack. Having high LDL levels raises your risk of having heart disease by 20 percent. Losing 11-20 pounds can help you significantly reduce your cholesterol level.
5. Cancer — A study by the American Heart Association (http://www.heart.org/) found that being overweight increases your chances for developing cancer by 50 percent. Women have a higher risk of developing cancer if they are more than 20 pounds overweight. Regular exercise and a weight loss of as little as 12 pounds can significantly decrease the risk.
6. Infertility — Being obese can cause changes in the hormonal levels of women, which can result in ovarian failure. Women who are 15-25 pounds overweight are at a higher risk of suffering from infertility and ovarian cancer. Our bodies need to be at an appropriate weight to produce the right amount of hormones and regulate ovulation and menstruation. Don’t think men are immune to infertility. Overweight men have a greater chance of developing motility and a lower sperm count. Shedding 12-14 pounds can help you lower the risks.
7. Back Pain — Obesity is one the contributing factors of back and joint pain. Excessive weight can cause injury to the most vulnerable parts of the spine, which carries the body’s weight. When it has to carry excess weight, the odds of suffering from a spinal injury or structural damage increase. Being overweight also raises the risk of developing osteoporosis, lower back pain, arthritis, and osteoarthritis. Losing 10-15 pounds can help you decrease the risk of developing these problems.
8. Skin Infections — Obese and overweight individuals may have skin that folds over on itself. These creased areas can become irritated from the rubbing and sweating, which can lead to skin infections.
9. Ulcers — According to a study by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) (http://www.nih.gov/), obesity can be a contributing factor to the development of gastric ulcers. Gastric ulcers occur when there is an imbalance between the amount of hydrochloric acid that is secreted and the enzyme pepsin. Overweight men are at a greater risk of developing gastric ulcers than women. A weight loss of as little as 7 pounds can help reduce the risk.
10. Gallstones — Being severely overweight increases the risk of developing gallstones, especially in women. Gallstones are caused when the liver releases excessive amounts of bile, which is stored in the gallbladder. Gallstones are more common in older women and those with a family history of gallstones. Losing 4-9 pounds reduces the risk of developing gallstones. Moderate exercise also can help lower your risk.




Now I ask you to prove that obesity does not have a huge impact on healthcare. You can also put up proof that cancer is not related to obesity; I think that was your argument....

[bulldog]

The ten events or conditions that are most commonly expensive are as follows. These are average costs, so many patients even with these conditions will not reach the $100,000 per year mark:
1. HIV $25,000
2. Cancer $49,000
3. Transplant $51,00
4. Stroke $61,000
5 Hemophilia $62,000
6. Heart Attack including Cardiac Revascularization (Angioplasty with or without Stent) $72,000
7. Coronary Artery Disease $75,000
8. Neonate (premature baby) with extreme problems $101,000
9. End-Stage Renal Disease $173,000
10. Respiratory Failure on Ventilator $314,000I was surprised how low cancer was on the list. The report provides a bit more detail. If you have cancer that’s not being intensively treated (no chemotherapy, no surgery) it costs only $14,000 a year. This would apply to 40% of total cancer patients. However, cancer patients who receive surgery or chemotherapy (15% of the total) cost $123,000 on average. It wasn’t clear how the other 35% are classified.

The most expensive condition, respiratory failure on a ventilator, is another way of describing the intensive care that patients receive at the end of life for a variety of conditions. Kidney failure may be from diabetes or hypertension, both of which could have been preventable. Ok, so the bold red area clearly shows 40% of cancer patients spend $14,000 a year.....even in the advanced stages it costs $123,000 which is still $191,000 less than Respitory Failure.


And what causes respiratory failure:

What Causes Respiratory Failure?

Diseases and conditions that impair breathing can cause respiratory failure. These disorders may affect the muscles, nerves, bones, or tissues that support breathing, or they may affect the lungs directly.

Sounds like obesity right????? You think all that extra weight does not crush the organs.....like the lungs! But here is the proof:


Obesity and respiratory mechanics

Weight gain and rising BMI are associated with decreases in lung volumes, which are reflected by a more restrictive ventilatory pattern on spirometry. Cross-sectional and longitudinal studies have demonstrated that a rise in BMI lowers forced expiratory volume in 1 second (FEV1), forced vital capacity (FVC), functional residual capacity (FRC), and the expiratory reserve volume (ERV). In morbid obesity (BMI > 40 kg/m2), there is also a modest decrease in residual volume (RV) and total lung capacity (TLC). At such extreme levels of obesity, FRC approaches RV.4 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b4-ijgm-3-335),8 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b8-ijgm-3-335)–12 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b12-ijgm-3-335)


Obesity and respiratory symptomsOverweight and obese individuals are more likely to have respiratory symptoms than individuals with a normal BMI, even in the absence of demonstrable lung disease. Studies have shown an increase in self-reported dyspnea and wheezing at rest and on exertion in obese compared with lean individuals.14 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b14-ijgm-3-335),15 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b15-ijgm-3-335),20 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b20-ijgm-3-335) In a large epidemiological survey of Swedish obese patients awaiting bariatric surgery, 80% reported dyspnea on exertion of two flights of stairs.14 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b14-ijgm-3-335) Recently, Babb et al15 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990395/#b15-ijgm-3-335) reported a heightened sensation of breathlessness on exertion in 37% of 30 otherwise healthy obese women.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Lol no I'm more talking about the event that created that entire show. Not saying he made that term himself. Well he kind of did.

Just talking shit for wishing such a thing on someone.Well... as long as I get the credit, goddammit...

[#1Townie]

Nice...I love proving my points :lol:

So let's remember the argument here was for obesity so I will show proof that obesity has a direct effect on getting these conditions; therefore raising Amercian helathcare since we are #1 country for obesity (again your argument of cancer is one of these, so basically you are backing up what I say even if cancer does cost more a year):



More than 65 million adults and 10 million children suffer from obesity, considered one of the leading causes of life-threatening diseases. Being morbidly obese can compromise your health, shorten your life, and even cause death. If you are overweight, the probabilities of developing heart disease, diabetes, and high blood pressure increase significantly. Here are the top 10 obesity-related diseases.

1. High Blood Pressure — High blood pressure (http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/guide/understanding-high-blood-pressure-basics) is the primary cause of death among Americans older than 25. About 75 million people suffer from high blood pressure or hypertension, which is a major risk factor for heart disease. Blood pressure tends to increase with weight gain and age. It is not known why obesity is a major cause of high blood pressure. However, research has shown that obese patients displayed an increase in blood volume and arterial resistance. For people who are overweight and have high blood pressure, losing as little as 8 pounds can help reduce blood pressure to a safe level.
2. Diabetes Obesity is considered one of the most significant factors in the development of insulin resistance, and insulin resistance can lead to type 2 diabetes (http://www.mediweightlossclinics.com/patients/program/acute-DM-diabetic-program/). According to the World Health Organization, more than 90 percent of diabetes patients worldwide have type 2 diabetes. Being overweight or obese contributes to the development of diabetes by making cells more resistant to the effects of insulin. A weight loss of 15-20 pounds can help you decrease your risk of developing type 2 diabetes. Read:Exercising with Diabetes (https://www.mediweightlossclinics.com/patients/resources/articles/Exercising-with-Diabetes/).
3. Heart Disease — According to the American Heart Association (http://www.heart.org/), obesity is a major risk factor for developing coronary heart disease, which can lead to a heart attack or stroke. People who are overweight are at a greater risk of suffering a heart attack before the age of 45. Obese adolescents have a greater chance of having a heart attack before the age of 35 than non-obese adolescents. If you are overweight, losing 10-15 pounds can reduce your risk of developing heart disease. If you exercise regularly, the risk of developing heart disease falls even more. Read: Benefits of Cardiovascular Exercise (http://www.mediweightlossclinics.com/patients/resources/articles/benefits-of-cardio/).
4. High Cholesterol levels — High cholesterol is one of the leading causes of heart attacks. Cholesterol is transported through your blood in two ways: the low –density lipoprotein (LDL), which transports cholesterol to the cells that need it, and the high-density lipoprotein (HDL), which is the healthy cholesterol that reduces your risk for heart attack. Having high LDL levels raises your risk of having heart disease by 20 percent. Losing 11-20 pounds can help you significantly reduce your cholesterol level.
5. Cancer — A study by the American Heart Association (http://www.heart.org/) found that being overweight increases your chances for developing cancer by 50 percent. Women have a higher risk of developing cancer if they are more than 20 pounds overweight. Regular exercise and a weight loss of as little as 12 pounds can significantly decrease the risk.
6. Infertility — Being obese can cause changes in the hormonal levels of women, which can result in ovarian failure. Women who are 15-25 pounds overweight are at a higher risk of suffering from infertility and ovarian cancer. Our bodies need to be at an appropriate weight to produce the right amount of hormones and regulate ovulation and menstruation. Don’t think men are immune to infertility. Overweight men have a greater chance of developing motility and a lower sperm count. Shedding 12-14 pounds can help you lower the risks.
7. Back Pain — Obesity is one the contributing factors of back and joint pain. Excessive weight can cause injury to the most vulnerable parts of the spine, which carries the body’s weight. When it has to carry excess weight, the odds of suffering from a spinal injury or structural damage increase. Being overweight also raises the risk of developing osteoporosis, lower back pain, arthritis, and osteoarthritis. Losing 10-15 pounds can help you decrease the risk of developing these problems.
8. Skin Infections — Obese and overweight individuals may have skin that folds over on itself. These creased areas can become irritated from the rubbing and sweating, which can lead to skin infections.
9. Ulcers — According to a study by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) (http://www.nih.gov/), obesity can be a contributing factor to the development of gastric ulcers. Gastric ulcers occur when there is an imbalance between the amount of hydrochloric acid that is secreted and the enzyme pepsin. Overweight men are at a greater risk of developing gastric ulcers than women. A weight loss of as little as 7 pounds can help reduce the risk.
10. Gallstones — Being severely overweight increases the risk of developing gallstones, especially in women. Gallstones are caused when the liver releases excessive amounts of bile, which is stored in the gallbladder. Gallstones are more common in older women and those with a family history of gallstones. Losing 4-9 pounds reduces the risk of developing gallstones. Moderate exercise also can help lower your risk.




Now I ask you to prove that obesity does not have a huge impact on healthcare. You can also put up proof that cancer is not related to obesity; I think that was your argument....

Nope never said that. Just asked for finale numbers for your statement. That you have yet to show.

I will make this easy for you.

Take all those illnesses and find the exact number of them directly related to your statement. Then find the cost of dealing with each one of those each year. Then give me the number at the end.

Not in estimate. Not average. Nope exact number.

If you are ready to hear my point again I will try. My original point was that not one thing can be given the reason or cause of the current situation.

So just to be clear a bunch of that info you gave are just studies. Studies have proved to give massively unreliable information. Especially when it comes to health science.

Ten years ago milk was good for you. Now it causes cancer. Just a simple example.

[#1Townie]

Well... as long as I get the credit, goddammit...

Hahahaha I will not deny you your credit. Lol!!

[#1Townie]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/

Oh and some reading for you.

[bulldog]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/

Oh and some reading for you. Dang, that was the best you could do.....saying some studies are wrong. You are slacking Townie :lol:

By the way my wife was head nurse of oncology for 5 years in Aurora; she is now in ICU. I am pretty well educated in cancer! Not to mention addicted to health and fitness.


Come on there is no denying obesity has a major impact on healthcare! American is #1 so of course it makes sense that could be why our healthcare costs are so high.


Here is a good movie on America in the future :lol:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrNWYN3vhZAo7B-j9G-quGWv1Q8Lb_5PM9HfCpsVBIFt4NWK9f

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vy0DDuf8fYw/hqdefault.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy0DDuf8fYw

[bulldog]

Then a real breakdown of that movie and how we are not that far off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkDW-rBremk#t=60

[#1Townie]

That's all I could do? You went straight to the one thing you always do. Super fitness. I don't care what your girl does. My dad is an accountant guess that means I can budget the country.

I will add to your argument that 100 billion is spent on illegal immigrants healthcare each year. Now that is no small amount of money.

But yeah that's all I can do is argue that you can't say any one thing is the cause of the problem. But I could aregue there is other ways of dealing with it other than forcing people to buy something.

[bulldog]

That's all I could do? You went straight to the one thing you always do. Super fitness. I don't care what your girl does. My dad is an accountant guess that means I can budget the country.

I will add to your argument that 100 billion is spent on illegal immigrants healthcare each year. Now that is no small amount of money.

But yeah that's all I can do is argue that you can't say any one thing is the cause of the problem. But I could aregue there is other ways of dealing with it other than forcing people to buy something. Of course because this was about obesity......therefore fitness....COMMON SENSE!

No I say of course obesity is part of the problem....#1 killer so that is bottom line! Death = healthcare costs


Again, do not buy health insurance, but when you need medical help then show up with cash or do not go....pretty simple! You wake up in ER, then pay your bill 100% and then no issue! yet when it is a $500K bill I would expect you to work till the day you died to pay this back...only fair right since others paid for healthcare for years when you got to save that money


How did milk and immigration get in here :lol: :roll: :slap:

[#1Townie]

Then a real breakdown of that movie and how we are not that far off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkDW-rBremk#t=60

Meh I see much bigger fish to fry than if we are going to have Wally cleaning up the worlds trash piles.

But hey do what you have to. Just don't sell the health thing as a end all to the worlds problems. Yolo! I will have a cheeseburger for you.

[bulldog]

Meh I see much bigger fish to fry than if we are going to have Wally cleaning up the worlds trash piles.

But hey do what you have to. Just don't sell the health thing as a end all to the worlds problems. Yolo! I will have a cheeseburger for you.
Yeah the #1 killer in America is no big deal........:crazy:


Again, here is my solution.....bottom line:

Again, do not buy health insurance, but when you need medical help then show up with cash or do not go....pretty simple! You wake up in ER, then pay your bill 100% and then no issue! yet when it is a $500K bill I would expect you to work till the day you died to pay this back...only fair right since others paid for healthcare for years when you got to save that money

[#1Townie]

Of course because this was about obesity......therefore fitness....COMMON SENSE!

No I say of course obesity is part of the problem....#1 killer so that is bottom line! Death = healthcare costs


Again, do not buy health insurance, but when you need medical help then show up with cash or do not go....pretty simple! You wake up in ER, then pay your bill 100% and then no issue! yet when it is a $500K bill I would expect you to work till the day you died to pay this back...only fair right since others paid for healthcare for years when you got to save that money

No the argument is about being forced to buy healthcare. And arguments about obamacare costing more. You said that obesity is the number one cause. You said that and continue to say it.

You have yet to prove those numbers. Death does not equal cost. Well unless you want to change the argument into a funeral cost debate.

All I was saying is that you can't put it down to just one thing. And my point of 100 billion dollars is more than relevant.

100,000,000,000 a year. A single year. Just one. That's no small amount to just ignore.

[#1Townie]

Yeah the #1 killer in America is no big deal........:crazy:


Again, here is my solution.....bottom line:

Again, do not buy health insurance, but when you need medical help then show up with cash or do not go....pretty simple! You wake up in ER, then pay your bill 100% and then no issue! yet when it is a $500K bill I would expect you to work till the day you died to pay this back...only fair right since others paid for healthcare for years when you got to save that money

And again your idea of a car accident is covered by my auto. You dense fuck. We have already been over that.

500k bill? Wait didn't you just say a few posts ago that the affordable care act fixed those crazy prices? Ohhhh wait. That's right.. It didn't.

Dude you are not hearing me. NOT ONE THING CAN BE GIVEN BLAME FOR OUR HEALTH COST.

You are ignoring a million facts that are extremely important to look at as a whole. I just gave you a number that is in the same price range as your beloved obesity argument.

But I know you need that reason to go to the gym tonight. You are better than the rest of us because you are gym rat. Its okay bro. You lift.

[#1Townie]

Do you even tan bro?

Number one cause of diabetes?

http://www.medicaldaily.com/what-causes-diabetes-low-levels-vitamin-d-not-obesity-predict-glucose-metabolism-323176

Should have kept it civil and not made this personal. But I thank you and the sheep for reminding me how to be a prick.

[bulldog]

And again your idea of a car accident is covered by my auto. You dense fuck. We have already been over that.

500k bill? Wait didn't you just say a few posts ago that the affordable care act fixed those crazy prices? Ohhhh wait. That's right.. It didn't.

Dude you are not hearing me. NOT ONE THING CAN BE GIVEN BLAME FOR OUR HEALTH COST.

You are ignoring a million facts that are extremely important to look at as a whole. I just gave you a number that is in the same price range as your beloved obesity argument.

But I know you need that reason to go to the gym tonight. You are better than the rest of us because you are gym rat. Its okay bro. You lift. Yeah and I proved Nevada is a tort state and not a no-fault so it would not cover you unless the other person was at fault; that is how PIP works. You decided to ignore that, but IMO you are not medically covered by auto insurance if it is your fault. You can learn the hard way man if that is how you want it as I was just trying to help.

I never once said the affordable care act fixed those prices; I have said from the beginning hospital bills are huge and it is a crazy gamble to not have health insurance. You saw what TFOG guy said......$50K in first hour. It is not uncommon. Only thing I said is insurance costs have not went up per stats; but the economy has went down so employers suffer and pass it down to us.

Who said one thing could be blamed? You make things up man because I never said that......if anything that is crazy talk because of course a lot of factors come into play.

Not saying anything that I am better than anyone else....just facts that better fitness/diet leads to better health. Plus I am a bodybuilder and a person focusing on cardio fitness is in better health than me.

And once again, I am on your side to choose to get health insurance, but like I said above (twice) then come with cash for you healthcare bills and do not leave it on the taxpayers like a majority do that are not covered. Pretty simple............


:spit: How was I a prick or made this personal....man you are just having a bad day.....go get laid or have a beer and chill :lol:

[#1Townie]

Yeah and I proved Nevada is a tort state and not a no-fault so it would not cover you unless the other person was at fault; that is how PIP works. You decided to ignore that, but IMO you are not medically covered by auto insurance if it is your fault. You can learn the hard way man if that is how you want it as I was just trying to help.

I never once said the affordable care act fixed those prices; I have said from the beginning hospital bills are huge and it is a crazy gamble to not have health insurance. You saw what TFOG guy said......$50K in first hour. It is not uncommon. Only thing I said is insurance costs have not went up per stats; but the economy has went down so employers suffer and pass it down to us.

Who said one thing could be blamed? You make things up man because I never said that......if anything that is crazy talk because of course a lot of factors come into play.

Not saying anything that I am better than anyone else....just facts that better fitness/diet leads to better health. Plus I am a bodybuilder and a person focusing on cardio fitness is in better health than me.

And once again, I am on your side to choose to get health insurance, but like I said above (twice) then come with cash for you healthcare bills and do not leave it on the taxpayers like a majority do that are not covered. Pretty simple............


:spit: How was I a prick or made this personal....man you are just having a bad day.....go get laid or have a beer and chill :lol:
i don't have time to go full out on you and your bullshit buts its all in here. I will just start with this.


Prior to Obama care it was passed on to the doctor and hospital...who then passed it on to us. You ever seen a doctor bill and say "wow, they charged $120 to give me a shot". That is because the doctors are passing on costs..

if your own words. prior... as in has changed.. as in no longer happens... same with it was. all referring to things have changed and yet they haven't. it is all still the same.

and again you dense fuck.

http://www.car-accident-facts.com/nevada-bodily-injury.html

I pay extra for this because I drive over a hundred thousand miles a year. it is my greatest risk to be involved in a auto accident. so yes I pay for this. don't fucking think you know shit about my plans and who they are through. you clearly know dick about it.

you said that obesity is the number one killer. you said it this page. now I know that you just messed that up and meant heart disease. but what you never showed was the numbers to truly support your claims. not fucking once. all you showed was that obesity CAN increase other problems. never once did you show any numbers to prove those claims.

you and barn had your fun making fun of me. that shit stain took it a bit too far with his comment about needing a dnr. but you both had fun at the idea of me needing major medical attention. that I take great offense to.

for him fuck it. his fate is sealed with his views. he will find out the hard way why being party blind will destroy him. but that's okay because next year Obama will be out and the next shit stain will be in. barn will be right here screaming about how the country is fucked and Obama was the greatest thing to ever happen. completely ignoring the debt this country is in. the issues that have been created. and sure as shit the next great economic issue this country will face.

you on the other hand have still yet to prove your point. only that your girl is a nurse. you have just completely ignored links to counter your ideas that medical studies are lacking in fact. yet you have nothing to say about making sure you get enough sun to help defeat diabetes. but you might get skin cancer.

I have argued from the start that you cant put one thing as a source. that has been my point but you argued that. that's what lead to all your posts. now you change that? wtf man.


so really figure it out man. support your statement or retract your claim. not to mention I could make a huge argument that obesity isn't even a disease. as to taking it personal why don't you stop wishing me thousands of dollars medical treatment. also understand that I back up plan to take care of myself. again when it comes to auto crash im good to go.

when it comes to going to the doctor because I don't feel good? fuck that. im good. I fucking hate hospitals. so a smart man would have back up plan to that. you can pay someone else and I will just let that money make me more money. if you don't understand that then that means you probably don't even have a savings account. so you can join barn in getting off my nuts.


now if you would like to get back to the actual topic at hand we don't really have much else to say as you just agreed I shouldn't be forced to purchase anything.

[bulldog]

i don't have time to go full out on you and your bullshit buts its all in here. I will just start with this.



if your own words. prior... as in has changed.. as in no longer happens... same with it was. all referring to things have changed and yet they haven't. it is all still the same.

and again you dense fuck.

http://www.car-accident-facts.com/nevada-bodily-injury.html

I pay extra for this because I drive over a hundred thousand miles a year. it is my greatest risk to be involved in a auto accident. so yes I pay for this. don't fucking think you know shit about my plans and who they are through. you clearly know dick about it.

you said that obesity is the number one killer. you said it this page. now I know that you just messed that up and meant heart disease. but what you never showed was the numbers to truly support your claims. not fucking once. all you showed was that obesity CAN increase other problems. never once did you show any numbers to prove those claims.

you and barn had your fun making fun of me. that shit stain took it a bit too far with his comment about needing a dnr. but you both had fun at the idea of me needing major medical attention. that I take great offense to.

for him fuck it. his fate is sealed with his views. he will find out the hard way why being party blind will destroy him. but that's okay because next year Obama will be out and the next shit stain will be in. barn will be right here screaming about how the country is fucked and Obama was the greatest thing to ever happen. completely ignoring the debt this country is in. the issues that have been created. and sure as shit the next great economic issue this country will face.

you on the other hand have still yet to prove your point. only that your girl is a nurse. you have just completely ignored links to counter your ideas that medical studies are lacking in fact. yet you have nothing to say about making sure you get enough sun to help defeat diabetes. but you might get skin cancer.

I have argued from the start that you cant put one thing as a source. that has been my point but you argued that. that's what lead to all your posts. now you change that? wtf man.


so really figure it out man. support your statement or retract your claim. not to mention I could make a huge argument that obesity isn't even a disease. as to taking it personal why don't you stop wishing me thousands of dollars medical treatment. also understand that I back up plan to take care of myself. again when it comes to auto crash im good to go.

when it comes to going to the doctor because I don't feel good? fuck that. im good. I fucking hate hospitals. so a smart man would have back up plan to that. you can pay someone else and I will just let that money make me more money. if you don't understand that then that means you probably don't even have a savings account. so you can join barn in getting off my nuts.


now if you would like to get back to the actual topic at hand we don't really have much else to say as you just agreed I shouldn't be forced to purchase anything.

What am I missing here?

Nevada bodily injury rules mean you will seek medical coverage from the at fault drivers Bodily Injury Liability coverage.

If you do not, your injuries will be paid for by the insurance company of the driver at fault in the accident, through their bodily injury liability coverage.

If you are at fault in the accident, your bodily injury liability will not cover these injuries

Personal Injury Protection (PIP)

Personal injury protection (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/personal-injury-protection.php), or what many refer to as "no-fault insurance," will cover your medical costs regardless of fault. It is available in no-fault states. (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/fault-and-no-fault-insurance.php)

Nevada is a Fault State. This means that your insurance company and the company for the other driver will pay damages for medical claims, wage loss and other expenses based on the degree of fault.


States with no-fault insurance laws include:


Florida.
Hawaii.
Kansas.
Kentucky.
Massachusetts.
Michigan.
Minnesota.
New Jersey.
New York.
North Dakota.
Pennsylvania.
Utah.




Honestly I hope I am wrong and you are covered....I seriously have no hard feelings against you man and was simply stating facts as I have been working in insurance over 15 years and they hire my team to check into TPL (third party liability) issues just like this. :dunno:

As for wishing you medical bills or making fun of you, I was speaking in general as accidents happen to everyone. I've had 4 surgeries in my life and my last one was over $220k...... I paid $1000. Guess you have been luckier than me because 3 of those were emergencies. Shit just happens to everyone

[#1Townie]

What am I missing here?

Nevada bodily injury rules mean you will seek medical coverage from the at fault drivers Bodily Injury Liability coverage.

If you do not, your injuries will be paid for by the insurance company of the driver at fault in the accident, through their bodily injury liability coverage.

If you are at fault in the accident, your bodily injury liability will not cover these injuries

Personal Injury Protection (PIP)

Personal injury protection (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/personal-injury-protection.php), or what many refer to as "no-fault insurance," will cover your medical costs regardless of fault. It is available in no-fault states. (http://www.dmv.org/insurance/fault-and-no-fault-insurance.php)

Nevada is a Fault State. This means that your insurance company and the company for the other driver will pay damages for medical claims, wage loss and other expenses based on the degree of fault.


States with no-fault insurance laws include:


Florida.
Hawaii.
Kansas.
Kentucky.
Massachusetts.
Michigan.
Minnesota.
New Jersey.
New York.
North Dakota.
Pennsylvania.
Utah.




Honestly I hope I am wrong and you are covered....I seriously have no hard feelings against you man and was simply stating facts as I have been working in insurance over 15 years and they hire my team to check into TPL (third party liability) issues just like this. :dunno:

If you don't care to read what you are so knowledgeable on I'm done talking.

But just so you know I run over 100k miles a year. My last speeding ticket was almost ten years ago. My last ticket was a fix it ticket. Because the cop was a fucking prick.

In other words I don't drive like a fucking prick. I am a professional driver. I get paid to navigate through you shit heads in your little cars who don't even see me.

At fault as being my fault. As in I did something stupid and wrecked my car.

Well for you that's nothing. Just a bad day. For me its my career. MY WHOLE FUCKING CAREER. No more job. Can't get another one for a minimum of three years. Some companies won't hire a at fault accident at all. In other words no job in this industry for ten years.

Stop speaking to a life you know nothing about. The rules and consequences are different for a cdl driver. We don't have the luxury of a mistake. In our personal cars or at work.

So again I'm not worried about plowing into a wall and having to be choppered to the nearest hospital. That risk isn't there.

Oh and before you bring it up that even includes storms. Remember im a professional driver. I can't slide off the road into a ditch. I can't back into anything. I can't cut something short. I can't hit anything! It all goes down as at fault in my career.

So again tell me how my life works. Oh did I mention I can only have a .03 bac even in my personal car? Yeah .04 is a DUI for me. And again my career is over. Done.

I'm good bro. Its still my fucking choice. Its my right as a so called free person to do with my money as I fucking please.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO FUCKING RIGHT TO TELL HOW TO SOEND MY MONEY!

Most of all tell me to waste it on cheating system that will bend over backwards to not pay for what they are supposed to.

No fuck that. I won't waste my money on the fact I will end up paying three times more than I ever would in a normal life with insurance.

Yes shit happens but fact is the reason insurance companies is because so many people pay for it and never use it. Thats my fucking money and I will keep it.

So to make this real fucking clear to you. I'm not some punk who can't drive. I'm not a little bitch who needs to go see the doctor when I have the sniffles.

I am greatly offended by the idea I need to carry a DNR. Fuck both you faggot ass cock suckers at taking your little bitch made comments that fucking far.

So basically fuck you. Fuck who you work for and how ever many people you and or your company fucked over by not paying your end. Fuck your ideas that I need uncle Sam to take care of me and tell me how to live my life. Fuck you and your gym. Also while we are here I'm going to go get drunk. Why? Because fuck you that's why. I can. I'm a grown ass motherfucker who doesn't need people to tell me how to live. How to act. How to appreciate MY FUCKING LIFE. And most of all judge me for anything that doesn't meet your approval.

Fuck yours or anyone else's ideas of how my life should be lived.

Get my point now?

[The Black Knight]

Wow, like I said, always know where you stand with Townie. Don't let it get to you Townie. This is just a message board dude, and not real life. I wouldn't let what others think of you, to influence or dictate your mood. Just let it roll off you and not let it get you down.

[bulldog]

If you don't care to read what you are so knowledgeable on I'm done talking.

But just so you know I run over 100k miles a year. My last speeding ticket was almost ten years ago. My last ticket was a fix it ticket. Because the cop was a fucking prick.

In other words I don't drive like a fucking prick. I am a professional driver. I get paid to navigate through you shit heads in your little cars who don't even see me.

At fault as being my fault. As in I did something stupid and wrecked my car.

Well for you that's nothing. Just a bad day. For me its my career. MY WHOLE FUCKING CAREER. No more job. Can't get another one for a minimum of three years. Some companies won't hire a at fault accident at all. In other words no job in this industry for ten years.

Stop speaking to a life you know nothing about. The rules and consequences are different for a cdl driver. We don't have the luxury of a mistake. In our personal cars or at work.

So again I'm not worried about plowing into a wall and having to be choppered to the nearest hospital. That risk isn't there.

Oh and before you bring it up that even includes storms. Remember im a professional driver. I can't slide off the road into a ditch. I can't back into anything. I can't cut something short. I can't hit anything! It all goes down as at fault in my career.

So again tell me how my life works. Oh did I mention I can only have a .03 bac even in my personal car? Yeah .04 is a DUI for me. And again my career is over. Done.

I'm good bro. Its still my fucking choice. Its my right as a so called free person to do with my money as I fucking please.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO FUCKING RIGHT TO TELL HOW TO SOEND MY MONEY!

Most of all tell me to waste it on cheating system that will bend over backwards to not pay for what they are supposed to.

No fuck that. I won't waste my money on the fact I will end up paying three times more than I ever would in a normal life with insurance.

Yes shit happens but fact is the reason insurance companies is because so many people pay for it and never use it. Thats my fucking money and I will keep it.

So to make this real fucking clear to you. I'm not some punk who can't drive. I'm not a little bitch who needs to go see the doctor when I have the sniffles.

I am greatly offended by the idea I need to carry a DNR. Fuck both you faggot ass cock suckers at taking your little bitch made comments that fucking far.

So basically fuck you. Fuck who you work for and how ever many people you and or your company fucked over by not paying your end. Fuck your ideas that I need uncle Sam to take care of me and tell me how to live my life. Fuck you and your gym. Also while we are here I'm going to go get drunk. Why? Because fuck you that's why. I can. I'm a grown ass motherfucker who doesn't need people to tell me how to live. How to act. How to appreciate MY FUCKING LIFE. And most of all judge me for anything that doesn't meet your approval.

Fuck yours or anyone else's ideas of how my life should be lived.

Get my point now?

http://files.sharenator.com/anchorman_well_that_escalated_quickly-s624x317-351910.jpg
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Zanatos]

<img src="http://www.troll.me/images/victory-baby/tantrum.jpg">

[#1Townie]

http://files.sharenator.com/anchorman_well_that_escalated_quickly-s624x317-351910.jpg
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't you have some reps to go push?

No no no you have some ufc to catch up on. A life you will never truly know so you have to live it through the TV.

[#1Townie]

img src=http://www.troll.me/images/victory-baby/tantrum.jpg


Don't even get me started on you Susan.

[Ph03niX]

Y'all need to slap some studded knobbies on your bikes and get out and ride :lol:

[salsashark]

Y'all need to slap some studded knobbies on your bikes and get out and ride :lol:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/5d/06/7d/5d067d454b2d1205fc29d3cdf31caed2.jpg

:lol: first thing that came to mind.


As for the rest...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rbiwu66NjhE/TTb9tzL4LWI/AAAAAAAAOWo/DEbJc9JIf5M/w200-h150-no/whatwhat.gif

[~Barn~]

This thread is just another example of one of the many awesome reasons I love this country so much, when we're at our fundamental finest. Some of the arguments here are tantamount to heated debates like that of American soldiers fighting and defending a country and a flag that ultimately entitles the "freedom" and "protection" of that same country's occupants to burn that same flag in demonstration or protest.

This shit is chess, it ain't checkers. And deep thought and the nuances of irony are not for everybody.

[bulldog]

Just funny the self proclaimed CSC "troll" that pisses off people weekly couldn't handle it back. :lol:

The funnier part is I was trying to help Townie by reviewing his auto-coverage and never even intended for this "hissy fit" to go down......sheesh it is only a internet forum and never even met the guy or seen a picture of him.


Anyways I came on this thread because EJ asked for someones help that works in this industry...hopefully I at least helped a bit :dunno: If people truly need help I am here; insurance plans are tricky and full of ways to screw you. Be prepared before it is too late!

[#1Townie]

Just funny the self proclaimed CSC "troll" that pisses off people weekly couldn't handle it back. :lol:

The funnier part is I was trying to help Townie by reviewing his auto-coverage and never even intended for this "hissy fit" to go down......sheesh it is only a internet forum and never even met the guy or seen a picture of him.


Anyways I came on this thread because EJ asked for someones help that works in this industry...hopefully I at least helped a bit :dunno: If people truly need help I am here; insurance plans are tricky and full of ways to screw you. Be prepared before it is too late!

Hahahaha oh I'm sorry. You're my hero. Here this whole time I had no idea how and what I was paying for. Thank god for bulldog sculpted by the gods themselves to come here and tell me what my auto coverage does and doesn't do. Because of course he knows better than me what I arranged for.

Not to mention his all knowing powers in life and science because his chick is a nurse. Good god what could have happened to me if he had never come into my life. I would be surely doomed to liver failure and no auto insurance. My god just the horror of the thought!!

So should I suck your cock now or am I too beneath you to even do that? I mean a god like yourself. Who could even stand next to you?

Oh and hey before you think you are too cool for all this. You are in the same boat as me when it comes to pissing people off. Just an FYI. Difference between you and I. You seek attention with how in shape you are and your knowledge of ufc. Because you know a guy who trained with a guy who once had fight or some dumb shit.

Dude you know I always respond this way. Its nothing new. Its just fucking childish to watch you and the barnwagon take things the way you. You clearly just wanted to say I know better.

Off is the direction I wish you would fuck.

[#1Townie]

This thread is just another example of one of the many awesome reasons I love this country so much, when we're at our fundamental finest. Some of the arguments here are tantamount to heated debates like that of American soldiers fighting and defending a country and a flag that ultimately entitles the "freedom" and "protection" of that same country's occupants to burn that same flag in demonstration or protest.

This shit is chess, it ain't checkers. And deep thought and the nuances of irony are not for everybody.

No no no. Hypocrisy is something for cowards who can't think for themselves. I always love how when I bring that up you change the topic or resort to calling me clownie. Like you and that drunk fuck nicknija are still best buds. I mean I'm sure you guys shared some great times getting plastered making bad decisions.

But its cool because at the end of the day you will just follow your crowd blindly to your own downfall.

[bulldog]

Hahahaha oh I'm sorry. You're my hero. Here this whole time I had no idea how and what I was paying for. Thank god for bulldog sculpted by the gods themselves to come here and tell me what my auto coverage does and doesn't do. Because of course he knows better than me what I arranged for.

Not to mention his all knowing powers in life and science because his chick is a nurse. Good god what could have happened to me if he had never come into my life. I would be surely doomed to liver failure and no auto insurance. My god just the horror of the thought!!

So should I suck your cock now or am I too beneath you to even do that? I mean a god like yourself. Who could even stand next to you?

Oh and hey before you think you are too cool for all this. You are in the same boat as me when it comes to pissing people off. Just an FYI. Difference between you and I. You seek attention with how in shape you are and your knowledge of ufc. Because you know a guy who trained with a guy who once had fight or some dumb shit.

Dude you know I always respond this way. Its nothing new. Its just fucking childish to watch you and the barnwagon take things the way you. You clearly just wanted to say I know better.

Off is the direction I wish you would fuck. All fun and games till you find yourself at fault ina accident; no medical coverage and sued by the other person. Maybe then you will think "damn, Bulldog had a good point". probably not, but some people have to learn the hardway.


P.S. Check your "friend" count vs mine. Sure I may piss people off, but in this club I have made way more great friendships then you ever have and it was just from being myself....to me that says a lot. Plus I got a wife and she is my best friend...who do you have?????


Anyways, Townie, have fun because I am going to be like 99% of the people on this forum and just skip over your posts. Twas fun while it lasted till you took it all personal and had a fit. Maybe you will realize why people ignore you; when I gave you a chance....lesson learned.

[#1Townie]

All fun and games till you find yourself at fault ina accident; no medical coverage and sued by the other person. Maybe then you will think "damn, Bulldog had a good point". probably not, but some people have to learn the hardway.


P.S. Check your "friend" count vs mine. Sure I may piss people off, but in this club I have made way more great friendships then you ever have and it was just from being myself....to me that says a lot. Plus I got a wife and she is my best friend...who do you have?????


Anyways, Townie, have fun because I am going to be like 99% of the people on this forum and just skip over your posts. Twas fun while it lasted till you took it all personal and had a fit. Maybe you will realize why people ignore you; when I gave you a chance....lesson learned.


Blaaahahahaha Mr popular again!! Oh you and all your friends! Hahahaha!!! And again I'm going to wreck my car and be at fault! Fuck I forgot about that!


Skip over my posts you fucking pussy. Who can't handle it now? You start something you couldn't finish?

Poor bulldog must have left his teeth at home today.

[bulldog]

Blaaahahahaha Mr popular again!! Oh you and all your friends! Hahahaha!!! And again I'm going to wreck my car and be at fault! Fuck I forgot about that!


Skip over my posts you fucking pussy. Who can't handle it now? You start something you couldn't finish?

Poor bulldog must have left his teeth at home today.
Just pointless talking with a idiot!

[#1Townie]

Just pointless talking with a idiot!

Hahahaha I gave you a chance. You just didn't listen. Not my fault bro. That's on you. You who I am. You know how I respond to that shit. Yet my actions surprise you. That makes me the idiot?

Nah man. Maybe next time try to watch a little closer to what someone is saying.

[~Barn~]

No no no. Hypocrisy is something for cowards who can't think for themselves. I always love how when I bring that up you change the topic or resort to calling me clownie. Like you and that drunk fuck nicknija are still best buds. I mean I'm sure you guys shared some great times getting plastered making bad decisions.

But its cool because at the end of the day you will just follow your crowd blindly to your own downfall.

I haven't called you Clownie once in this thread. I've articulated everything to you, that I have disagreed with, even if I did use an element of sarcasm at times. I think it's a bit unfair of you to be accusatory with no grounds. :dunno:

Truthfully Townie, I do like you well enough. For similar reasons to what TBK mentioned before. I appreciate people who are passionate about things, and generally unwavering with their beliefs. But just because you're passionate and steadfast, doesn't preclude you from being entirely misguided. I'm a glass half full kinda guy though, and if I "changed the topic" with my last comment it wasn't out of defeat, cowardice or lack of material; I've just given up on you for this episode. It was more of a closing statement as testament to why some people will never agree on (or moreover understand) certain topics that otherwise have an inherent clarity to them.

That is all. I wish you no ill-will or harm.

[bulldog]

I haven't called you Clownie once in this thread. I've articulated everything to you, that I have disagreed with, even if I did use an element of sarcasm at times. I think it's a bit unfair of you to be accusatory with no grounds. :dunno:

Truthfully Townie, I do like you well enough. For similar reasons to what TBK mentioned before. I appreciate people who are passionate about things, and generally unwavering with their beliefs. But just because you're passionate and steadfast, doesn't preclude you from being entirely misguided. I'm a glass half full kinda guy though, and if I "changed the topic" with my last comment it wasn't out of defeat, cowardice or lack of material; I've just given up on you for this episode. It was more of a closing statement as testament to why some people will never agree on (or moreover understand) certain topics that otherwise have an inherent clarity to them.

That is all. I wish you no ill-will or harm. +1 Well said :up:

Just at a certain point is is pointless to continue arguing...this has been hard for me but gets easier as I get older...like Taylor Swift says "shake it off". :)

[~Barn~]

Great song! And she is incredibly good looking too.

http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015023/rs_600x600-150123184313-600.Taylor-Swift-Facebook.ms.012315.jpg

[TFOGGuys]

...like Taylor Swift says "shake it off". :)

I'm pretty sure that's the title to a porn movie...

[bulldog]

Yeah I have always thought she was hot and never got the hate on her. I will admit I jam her new album.:D


I'm pretty sure that's the title to a porn movie...
:spit: You have seen that one too huh. The prequel of "Fill her up" was better though :lol:

[bulldog]

Look even Taylor Swift and Kanye are friends again......can't we all just get along :lol:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-vCpw_UEAANPW_.jpg

Wow, she is tall!



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-w9RMqUUAAgj8Q.jpg

I'll take all three....yes even Kim

[#1Townie]

look at you two little bitches. talk shit and once it comes right back in your face its all about the high road. what a fucking joke.

first off nate for a guy who attacks people as quick as you do you when they aren't as manly as you are is kind of sad to see you take this approach. call me names. make fun of me. talk down to me. and then when you get my response you are going to sit here and act like you have class? what a bunch of bitch made bullshit. shut the fuck up with how many people are your friends on the internet. that's about as cool as being the fastest kid at the special Olympics.



Brandon. no you took your shit too fucking far mother fucker. I don't give a flying fuck for the fake ass face you are currently putting on for the crowed. the amazing part is I still stand saying fuck you both. now you both act like oh we are better people. well you created this situation. enjoy the beds you both made. and I will end this post with kindly saying fuck you both. maybe drop a lick my taint in there as well.

fucking pathetic

[#1Townie]

Dear Editor.

What's the statute of limitations on promised responses? CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION!


dear reader. sorry it took so long to get back to you but I hope in the reading that you will find all you had hoped for.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Oh did I mention I can only have a .03 bac even in my personal car? Yeah .04 is a DUI for me. And again my career is over. Done.Not entirely accurate. My Father was a 48 state truck driver for huge companies, J.B. Hunt for over twenty-years and retired at North west. He got a DUI and was only suspended for three months.

Some trucking companies do have VERY strict rules, however. My brother, who is also a CDL driver, applied for a company that will not hire you if you've EVER had any kind of accident, including non-work related. Doesn't matter if it wasn't your fault, no accidents, PERIOD!! They also fire you for things beyond your control, like a tree branch falling on the truck. I couldn't imagine working under those rules. Ridiculous!!

[~Barn~]

<Snip...>Brandon. no you took your shit too fucking far mother fucker. I don't give a flying fuck for the fake ass face you are currently putting on for the crowed. the amazing part is I still stand saying fuck you both. now you both act like oh we are better people. well you created this situation. enjoy the beds you both made. and I will end this post with kindly saying fuck you both. maybe drop a lick my taint in there as well.

fucking pathetic
Nothing fake about it Townie. I still think your thought process on this matter is deficient, but at the end of the day I'm happy to take the high ground, even if it means coming off as disingenuous to you. Quite frankly, I have bigger fish to fry than going over any given topic, ad nauseam. A one-sided agreement to disagree if you like.

The old me would still be engaging you probably, maybe attacking you with my words, who knows. At this stage in my life though I'm happy enough to just tell you once and kindly that you're dumb and then defend it if I have to. I don't need to drive the nail home with a sledgehammer like I used to feel compelled to. If you fuckin' hate me and want to see me die in a fire within the hour, so be it. Lick your taint? Sure, fine. You wouldn't be the first to have negative feelings about me, so suffices to say I can handle sleeping in that bed if I've made it. The older I get the more I've realized that I no longer have to point out to everybody, who the doormats are. The doormats display their obviousness as you approach.


dear reader. sorry it took so long to get back to you but I hope in the reading that you will find all you had hoped for.

:up:

[#1Townie]

Nothing fake about it Townie. I still think your thought process on this matter is deficient, but at the end of the day I'm happy to take the high ground, even if it means coming off as disingenuous to you. Quite frankly, I have bigger fish to fry than going over any given topic, ad nauseam. A one-sided agreement to disagree if you like.

The old me would still be engaging you probably, maybe attacking you with my words, who knows. At this stage in my life though I'm happy enough to just tell you once and kindly that you're dumb and then defend it if I have to. I don't need to drive the nail home with a sledgehammer like I used to feel compelled to. If you fuckin' hate me and want to see me die in a fire within the hour, so be it. Lick your taint? Sure, fine. You wouldn't be the first to have negative feelings about me, so suffices to say I can handle sleeping in that bed if I've made it. The older I get the more I've realized that I no longer have to point out to everybody, who the doormats are. The doormats display their obviousness as you approach.



:up:

Haha. Oh you silly sheep. The idea you could ever walk on me. Now that is comedy. But enjoy your imagination.

[#1Townie]

Not entirely accurate. My Father was a 48 state truck driver for huge companies, J.B. Hunt for over twenty-years and retired at North west. He got a DUI and was only suspended for three months.

Some trucking companies do have VERY strict rules, however. My brother, who is also a CDL driver, applied for a company that will not hire you if you've EVER had any kind of accident, including non-work related. Doesn't matter if it wasn't your fault, no accidents, PERIOD!! They also fire you for things beyond your control, like a tree branch falling on the truck. I couldn't imagine working under those rules. Ridiculous!!

Well these days no its not inaccurate. No one will touch within in three years. Slthe good companies won't even touch you if you have any kind of moving violation in the last three years.

The times have changed. Drivers are expected to be perfect.

[The Black Knight]

P.S. Check your "friend" count vs mine. Sure I may piss people off, but in this club I have made way more great friendships then you ever have and it was just from being myself....to me that says a lot. Plus I got a wife and she is my best friend...who do you have?????


Really man?? That's kind of childish and takin the low road. Comparing how many friends you have and/or the fact that you have a wife. As if that somehow puts you above Townie. People live their lives based on what makes them happy. Townie lives his life the way he sees fit, and you live your life the way you see fit. Nobody is above anyone else just because they have more friends or they are married.

I don't know man, that's a bad look. I think you could have tried proving other points and not gone with the "I have more friends that you do and I have a wife, who is my best friend" smack... Because at the end of the day, no one cares about that stuff but you.

[#1Townie]

Hahahaha fuck I didn't even see the girl comment.

Awwww we are in middle school again.... Oh wait no we are playing cod. Wait bulldog have you fucked my mother too?

Hahahah . Dude what a joke. Like I'm going to sit here and pull some dumbass dick contest on the internet with you. Plus all the steroid use probably gave you erectile dysfunction. The contest just isn't fair.

But enjoy your Rex in the snow buddy. I remember when all I could afford was a highschool kids car too.

[bulldog]

Really man?? That's kind of childish and takin the low road. Comparing how many friends you have and/or the fact that you have a wife. As if that somehow puts you above Townie. People live their lives based on what makes them happy. Townie lives his life the way he sees fit, and you live your life the way you see fit. Nobody is above anyone else just because they have more friends or they are married.

I don't know man, that's a bad look. I think you could have tried proving other points and not gone with the "I have more friends that you do and I have a wife, who is my best friend" smack... Because at the end of the day, no one cares about that stuff but you. You have a good point man, and that was a dumb thing to say. The point was I have made a lot of friendships on here and I would hope that would prove in person a lot of people have got along with me. Overall I don't care because my wife is my best friend and i feel fortunate to have her. To me saying I am like Townie is a huge put down, so I am now going to try to argue less on this board and just try to contribute, because I do not want to be seen like him.

Not sure if we have met Black Knight, but I still feel if you met me in person you would see a different side. I just tend to argue because there is not much action on the board, but I am kind of over that as it has caused me to get some "haters'" and I really do apologize if I have upset anyone. I've had a few people PM me and not one of them left without us working things out.

I hope you can at least appreciate I did not reply by twenty "fuck you" back. As Barn said it has been a maturity thing for me to learn when to stop and it is not easy, but I do agree with barn and the older we get the more we realize when to pick and choose our battles. Heck Barn and I used to argue a lot so it is nice to see we have both change for the good.

Anyways I am out of this thread....enjoy.