These Snow Days are the Days I love My Car...... [Archive]

bulldog

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 09:05 AM

Pretty interesting videos. I was never disappointed with the AWD in my Volvo S60R. However, when I moved to the WRX, it definitely seems to work better but only a bit. I never found myself stuck in the S60.

I do love it in the winter with my winter rim set up. I am running Goodyear UltraGrip Ice and have been pleased. As a winter set, they do everything I ask for snow days etc. No that my hook up at Goodyear is gone, I may consider something else just to see what else does / doesn't work. Curious, what tires do you have on your Rex?Nice. what year is your WRX? I always wantd one for years so finally saved up and got one and have loved the car since day one.

I actually have some cheaper snow tires as I usually buy Nokian. Right now I have Cooper Tires as it was a bind I was in. Bought the WRX brand new last December (2013) and little did I know the WRX came with summer tires. First snow i almost killed myself so I was forced to buy snow tires right after I bought the car. A friend recommended Cooper and I tried then and have been happy. Nokians were still better, but these work well for the price. I did end up buying some Rota rims so I now have two sets; summer and winter setup

birchyboy

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 09:14 AM

Our RDX has been very good to us from an AWD standpoint. We're selling it, though, and moving to either a Grand Cherokee or Tahoe. My wife will have to learn to to turn on 4WD when necessary.

~Barn~

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 09:36 AM

Too bad you don't have an MDX for sale! Probably will be my next ride since I offloaded the 'Burban awhile back.

madvlad

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 09:52 AM

The FWD Maxima did just fine last night lol

WolFeYeZ

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 10:08 AM

So did the FWD Mazda 3. Perfectly fine weaving between AWD SUVs that were going 30 under the speed limit on a 40 mph road.

birchyboy

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 10:08 AM

Too bad you don't have an MDX for sale! Probably will be my next ride since I offloaded the 'Burban awhile back.

Great cars. Not great at towing, though :( Otherwise, I'd be getting one for my wife.

Are you sure it's big enough for your Brady Bunch?

Edit: How about a package deal for a Yukon and RDX ????

madvlad

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 10:17 AM

So did the FWD Mazda 3. Perfectly fine weaving between AWD SUVs that were going 30 under the speed limit on a 40 mph road.

I left work at 11 last night and the roads were not plowed at all, still rolled 60 mph on 470 lol. Pretty crazy how it snowed less last time through and CDOT did great cleaning up but yesterday was a Uber fail lol

bulldog

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 10:20 AM

Our RDX has been very good to us from an AWD standpoint. We're selling it, though, and moving to either a Grand Cherokee or Tahoe. My wife will have to learn to to turn on 4WD when necessary. Any idea what they mean by RDX's having "Tech AWD" (also called Intelligent AWD)? Is that the same as how Subaru measures tire spin and transfers power individually to each tire?

If so is that standard on all AWD or is this a option on some; seems standard with Subaru, but not sure how it works with other brands.

EDIT: Think I answer my own question with this. http://www.infinitiusa.com/now/technology/intelligent-all-wheel-drive.html (although this one seems to turn off FWD when not needed; I know my WRX does not do that)

But still is this a feature on some AWD or standard on all? My research shows only some offer individual wheel power when needed.

birchyboy

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 10:29 AM

Here's a quote from a review:

The suspension setup entails struts up front, and the multilink rear embraces a simplified version of the SH-AWD system employed on the RL sedan. In normal operation, 90 percent of the power goes to the front wheels, but this can vary up to 70 percent to the rear. At the rear axle, the SH-AWD can send as much as 100 percent of available torque to one wheel, which Acura says improves handling by overdriving the outside rear wheel in a corner.

The Tech package includes a nifty 4 bar graph that shows where the power is being sent.

Captain Obvious

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 01:11 PM

Nice. what year is your WRX? I always wantd one for years so finally saved up and got one and have loved the car since day one.

2013 5dr. I just decided that I wanted a AWD Sports car to replace the Volvo and the WRX fit all the reqs. Parts were stupid expensive on my S60 and it always needed something. Considered a STI, but felt as a DD, the WRX was better fit, as well as I wasn't interested in electronically adjustable suspension, the Volvo had it and made all suspension work more expensive. I do wish I had more room, but I survive.

I heard similar things about the summer tires during winter so just accounted for buying a winter set on day 1.

bulldog

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 01:45 PM

2013 5dr. I just decided that I wanted a AWD Sports car to replace the Volvo and the WRX fit all the reqs. Parts were stupid expensive on my S60 and it always needed something. Considered a STI, but felt as a DD, the WRX was better fit, as well as I wasn't interested in electronically adjustable suspension, the Volvo had it and made all suspension work more expensive. I do wish I had more room, but I survive.

I heard similar things about the summer tires during winter so just accounted for buying a winter set on day 1. Nice, we probably have very similar cars then since not much changed from 2013 to 2014; I just have the sedan. I did get the Limited because I wanted HID headlights and a sunroof; just two things I hate to be without nowadays. It also came with the STI shifter and exhaust so that was a nice touch because I have always modded my cars, but am planning to not really do this to the WRX. Same with you I considered the STI, but I felt I was a bit too old at 36 to have a giant spoiler and all the bells and whistles that come with it. Then I read the WRX is actually faster than a stock STI in a 1/4 mile because of the 5 speed vs 6 speed and that kind of sold me; plus was nice to save some cash. I love this car and by far the best and most fun car I have ever owned.

The summer tire issue was scary. I had heard how great these cars were in snow so that first snowfall I tried to stop and slid straight though and my car went sideways about to slam the curb. I was shitting because the car had like 25 miles on it. Somehow the AWD kicked in and still saved me even though I was on frozen summer tires; inches from hitting the curb. I got to work and told my friend and he was like "I bet they did the same thing to you as me and gave you high performance summer tires". We walk out and sure enough they had; awesome since they gave me a season pass to Winter Park, but never mentioned the tires.

I do like the Rota wheels I got. Ever heard of those? They are basically cheaper versions of fully forged Volk rims that costs a lot. For the price these were way cheaper and still quite a bit lighter than the stock rims; which are nice rims on the WRX anyways. For once in my life I stayed with 17's and now am happy I did; much better than the 19's I used to get that were basically just for looks. Some people hate Rota wheels, and some love them...so far they have been great for me http://www.rotawheels.com/

texlurch

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 01:46 PM

Jeeps Quadradrive is still the standard.
Not only do you have a torque sensing transfer case, but also in both axles... it'll send power AWAY from the tires that spin... to any of the 4 corners.

bulldog

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 02:01 PM

Jeeps Quadradrive is still the standard.
Not only do you have a torque sensing transfer case, but also in both axles... it'll send power AWAY from the tires that spin... to any of the 4 corners. Pretty sure that is how Subaru's AWD is, but still trying to learn all the different types.

Spooph

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 03:55 PM

So did the FWD Mazda 3. Perfectly fine weaving between AWD SUVs that were going 30 under the speed limit on a 40 mph road.
so that was you.... dick... :P

Any idea what they mean by RDX's having "Tech AWD" (also called Intelligent AWD)? Is that the same as how Subaru measures tire spin and transfers power individually to each tire?

If so is that standard on all AWD or is this a option on some; seems standard with Subaru, but not sure how it works with other brands.

EDIT: Think I answer my own question with this. http://www.infinitiusa.com/now/technology/intelligent-all-wheel-drive.html (although this one seems to turn off FWD when not needed; I know my WRX does not do that)

But still is this a feature on some AWD or standard on all? My research shows only some offer individual wheel power when needed.

This usually refers to some sort of electronic control, similar to traction control and usually run by the same computer. It uses brakes individually to slow/stop spinning wheels so the power can be transferred back to the other wheels. Fancy and farkly with lots of stuff to break and fail.

Jeeps Quadradrive is still the standard.
Not only do you have a torque sensing transfer case, but also in both axles... it'll send power AWAY from the tires that spin... to any of the 4 corners.
Bulldog is right, this is how Subaru's work, and has been doing this for decades. Jeep is a little behind.

Bulldog, to aid you in your search, look up a vicious coupled limited slip differential. Subaru's symmetrical AWD in principle is a limited slip diff for all power transfers. So, front axle has one, rear axle has one, and the drive shaft in between them has one. What makes Subaru cool is how they integrated the front LSD with the middle LSD as part of the manual transmission. The auto has some funk about it.

Anyway, the point to all of this is that symmetrical AWD is a fully mechanical system which is very simple compared to electronic assisted finaglings. Also, this means you don't need Traction Control to make the system function as there is no "brain" to sense when a tire slips. All it uses is friction. Building off of this, Subaru's TC is pretty dumb (although very effective) when compared to BMW, Audi, Volvo and such.

Obviously, I'm on my 3rd Subaru, and thus a groupy, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

So why don't all manu's do it this way? Aside the licensing fees... Because gas mileage sucks. It always will. Somewhere, at all times, a tire is dragging the other 3 down. Volvo's get great mileage because of that 90/10 default split on their "smart/electronic" system.

Also, I hear ya on no grip with the wrong tires... Too much power, too quickly. Doesn't matter how many tires you spin, they're still overwhelmed. Throw some environment specific tires on there and it's all good! I'm sure you've found out, but with my first subaru it was a weird feeling to learn - pushing on the accelerator to get out of trouble instead of easing on the brakes...

Also please note the difference between AWD and 4WD as they are not the same thing. AWD is all the time. 4WD is selectable between 2 and 4, and usually 4 LO. The big distinction here is that 4WD has a transfer case, AWD vehicles do not.

Clovis

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 04:45 PM

I love the Subaru AWD system.

I have a '11 Rex and my wife has a '13 Forester turbo.

About a year and half ago when we bought the Forester we had a VW Beetle convertible to be sold. I took the bug to work so they could meet me that day to look at it. It ended up snowing a lot and the drive home I was cursing not having my WRX with it's brand new all season tires.

A 20 minute drive took 45 minutes and I had a really hard time getting up my street (we lived on a hill back then). I got stuck in my drive way which had a foot of unshoveled snow. After I got home I spent another 15 minutes shoveling snow so I could get the car into the driveway at least.

For shits and giggles, the Rex was in the other spot, covered in the same foot of snow. It started up and backed out now problem. I found myself laughing as I was driving up the hill, through the fresh unplowed / undriven snow (ie the center of the road) - no problem!

Jmetz

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 05:32 PM

I've only had to use 4wd on the Ram once so far.

madvlad

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 07:57 PM

I've only had to use 4wd on the Ram once so far.

well yea, says the guy who had race slicks through winter lol

Ezzzzy1

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 08:28 PM

sag

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 08:53 PM

yeah Haldex awd sucks (volvo/vw) you can throw one on a lift, put in gear, let it drive and grab a rear wheel and stop it by hand. i liked my wrx with snows but without the fancy diffs its way too pushy for my tastes. need that shit to rotate and step out cleaner. STI and EVO ftw. i dont have any experience with quattro or bmw.

madvlad

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 09:58 PM

I like love it hear! Where im from in California its all hot and stuff....

I HATE DRIVING IN COLORADO WHEN IT SNOWS BECAUSE THERE ARE SOOO MANY PEOPLE HERE NOW THAT DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE DOING WHEN A 1/2 INCH OF IT SHOWS UP!

:nuke:

Let's face it dude, even people that have lived here all their lives can't even drive in this shit. Hell I'm a foreigner and drive better than 80% the damn natives and we don't even have snow where I'm from lol

Captain Obvious

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 10:36 PM

Nice, we probably have very similar cars then since not much changed from 2013 to 2014;

I do like the Rota wheels I got. Ever heard of those? They are basically cheaper versions of fully forged Volk rims that costs a lot.

I think the two year models are very similar, if any changes at all. The interior is very pedestrian, a couple more bells and whistles would be nice. I ordered a limited as well, and wanted the adjustable arm rest. When it arrived, i got the sport kit for free. SPT Exhaust and Short shift kit and the fancy all weather mats. I have heard of them. When I was shopping for rims decided to go 16s to have more and cheaper tire options. Ended up with some cheap knock off brand, I just didn't care. they look okay, but meh, nothing special.

I have a large hill to get to my house and love being the only one who takes the direct route up the hill, everyone else drives the backside of the hill as it is less steep. The Volvo never had issues, but the Subie runs right up it with no issue.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/funksouljon/WRX%20images%20videos/DSC_0017_zps0761c474.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/funksouljon/media/WRX%20images%20videos/DSC_0017_zps0761c474.jpg.html)

Captain Obvious

Thu Feb 26th, 2015, 10:59 PM

Jeeps Quadradrive is still the standard.
Not only do you have a torque sensing transfer case, but also in both axles... it'll send power AWAY from the tires that spin... to any of the 4 corners.

Quadra-drive? Meh, Select trac... :)
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/funksouljon/FSJ%20pics/JeepProfile003.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/funksouljon/media/FSJ%20pics/JeepProfile003.jpg.html)

Wrider

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 12:04 AM

I bet going up your hill is always interesting Captain!

I've loved my Subaru this year, although the idiots in front of me tend to piss me off. When you're stuck behind cars 3 wide doing 30 up I-25 when 55-60 is not a problem, you'd yell at them too!

bulldog

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 07:43 AM

Spooph, thanks for the info, that was what I was looking for and I'll google some of the things you said so I can learn more :up:

I've only had to use 4wd on the Ram once so far. Like others said knowing how to drive in this snow makes a huge difference. I go around corners in parking lots to make my car slide out so I know how to react when it happens in a emergency. I've had people say I am crazy for doing this, but to me it is riskier to not practice and that is why people freak out when it happens and have no idea what to do.

Snow tires so make a huge difference. My old Eclipse was not every good in snow, but with studded Nokias it was great in snow.

I like love it hear! Where im from in California its all hot and stuff....

I HATE DRIVING IN COLORADO WHEN IT SNOWS BECAUSE THERE ARE SOOO MANY PEOPLE HERE NOW THAT DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE DOING WHEN A 1/2 INCH OF IT SHOWS UP!
This is my biggest gripe. I am rarely afraid to drive because of myself, but because of other people. And to me it seems like the over cautious ones are the most dangerous one. Yesterday at about 4:30 on Satna Fe there was a lady going 25mph in the fast lane holding up traffic way back. People were trying to get around her and causing more danger than if this lady just moved over to the right lane. I have no issues with people who want to take it slow, but at least stay in slow lane or let people pass when you see you are backing traffic up

I think the two year models are very similar, if any changes at all. The interior is very pedestrian, a couple more bells and whistles would be nice. I ordered a limited as well, and wanted the adjustable arm rest. When it arrived, i got the sport kit for free. SPT Exhaust and Short shift kit and the fancy all weather mats. I have heard of them. When I was shopping for rims decided to go 16s to have more and cheaper tire options. Ended up with some cheap knock off brand, I just didn't care. they look okay, but meh, nothing special.

I have a large hill to get to my house and love being the only one who takes the direct route up the hill, everyone else drives the backside of the hill as it is less steep. The Volvo never had issues, but the Subie runs right up it with no issue.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/funksouljon/WRX%20images%20videos/DSC_0017_zps0761c474.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/funksouljon/media/WRX%20images%20videos/DSC_0017_zps0761c474.jpg.html)

Yeah very similar. Here is mine
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/bulldog420/NewRims2_zps8405eac8.jpg

I ended up getting s sick deal on a set of Rota's from a ebay dealer; Wheelbay. I was worried they would be knockoffs, but comments stated this seller had been around a long time so I took the chance. Worked out.

#1Townie

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 08:09 AM

Hmmm. You guys were driving around in snow yesterday? That sucks. I was rolling around with my top down. Lol.

madvlad

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 08:32 AM

Hmmm. You guys were driving around in snow yesterday? That sucks. I was rolling around with my top down. Lol.

Driving in snow is not the problem, is the retards on the road that are the issue lol

#1Townie

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 08:41 AM

Driving in snow is not the problem, is the retards on the road that are the issue lol

Well that's on any road surface. Lol. Wet... Dry... Icy... Doesn't matter. People love to play bumper cars. Lol

birchyboy

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 09:00 AM

Well that's on any road surface. Lol. Wet... Dry... Icy... Doesn't matter. People love to play bumper cars. Lol

Ain't that the truth. People drive like morons.

madvlad

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 09:39 AM

Apparently Dave and busters is giving away licenses these days if you finish top 3 in their driving arcades lol

asp_125

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 10:35 AM

I had two Audis, the last one was an '06 A3 with the Haldex AWD differentials, and before that an older 80's Quattro with the Torsen diffs. The older AWD system was rally bred and launched like a mofo in the snow when I locked the diffs.

Ph03niX

Fri Feb 27th, 2015, 09:33 PM

I'm that guy in the FWD acura integra ripin the e-brake at every corner possible in the snow. :lol:

GMR

Sat Feb 28th, 2015, 01:13 AM

FZRguy

Sat Feb 28th, 2015, 05:27 AM

No issues here....but I'd rather be in Phoenix.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d105/mcqueenj/Ranger002.jpg

#1Townie

Sat Feb 28th, 2015, 09:26 AM

I have a TSX with SN2s, and a F150 4X4 with blizzaks.
Earlier this winter driving south on 25, I saw somethin in the corner of my eye. Somebody in oncoming traffic lost control and went right into the median right besides me, all I saw was the poof of snow but it was right by me.
Then my gf came up to visit me while I was working in Wyoming, flipped her car in the median going home on 25.
Then the company man on our rig was driving to work, a lady in the oncoming lane of 25 lost control, went ACROSS the median, hit him head on and he was nearly killed.
And yesterday, again driving south on 25, I witnessed a northbound jeep lose control, skid around 25 and come to a rough slam against the divider in the median.

Having a capable vehicle with proper equipment (tires) for the weather is great, but...
Fuck. This. Winter.

I'm sure summer is far more deadly with motorcycles and people racing around at high speeds, but I'm so over the stuff I've been seeing this winter

That's because people need to slow the fuck down. I don't care what kind of car and what kind of traction control with what tires you have. You have to slow the fuck down.

I80 Donner Pass is always a nightmare in the snow. Its fun driving eighty thousand pound truck and watch the 4wd/Awd idiots spin out in front of you because they are going too fast and tried to change lanes too quickly.

Or what happens here. Failing to maintain your lane.

http://youtu.be/2W3_rUGhfDk

Nolan

Sat Feb 28th, 2015, 09:50 AM

Your idea of fun is different than mine. It's almost always the 4wd vehicles in the ditch, or 70/30 anyway. I have absolutely zero desire to run the hills anymore in a truck. I'm quite happy driving my rusted shitbox mule around the yard.
and my 95 Ranger does just fine with its Kumho highway all seasons. It would probably be more fun to drive with a new steering box though.

birchyboy

Sat Feb 28th, 2015, 10:08 PM

Looking forward to the next snow storm in our new Grand Cherokee Trailhawk V8 :)

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz330/Birchy_Boy/TruckStuff/Trailhawk_zpsnxphi9dt.jpg

Aaron

Sat Feb 28th, 2015, 10:54 PM

Oh my God it's not a Subaru you'll never make it through snow :roll:

I drive a 1991 BMW 525 all winter with the cheapest tires Discount carries. Never been stuck.

Ezzzzy1

Sat Feb 28th, 2015, 11:05 PM

You are going to miss the turbo...

Looking forward to the next snow storm in our new Grand Cherokee Trailhawk V8 :)

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz330/Birchy_Boy/TruckStuff/Trailhawk_zpsnxphi9dt.jpg

birchyboy

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 06:11 AM

You are going to miss the turbo...

We hadn't worked on ours like you have. The V8 is no slouch, though. Plus, it will tow our travel trailer much better than the RDX :)

Captain Obvious

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 02:16 PM

Oh my God it's not a Subaru you'll never make it through snow :roll:

I drive a 1991 BMW 525 all winter with the cheapest tires Discount carries. Never been stuck.

Pretty sure no one said anything like that.

Aaron

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 03:07 PM

This whole thread is a group masturbation session for your Subarus. And don't even get me started on Subaru.

Captain Obvious

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 03:21 PM

This whole thread is a group masturbation session for your Subarus. And don't even get me started on Subaru.

2 Subies, 1 Ranger, 1 old Jeep, 1 new Jeep. Yeah, that sounds like a subaru circle jerk. So you come into a circle jerk to announce you don't like circle jerks (your idea of a CJ, not mine).

Or would you just rather everyone came to the post about how awesome your downpayment on your new bike is and then just stopped the internet?

#1Townie

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 04:38 PM

2 Subies, 1 Ranger, 1 old Jeep, 1 new Jeep. Yeah, that sounds like a subaru circle jerk. So you come into a circle jerk to announce you don't like circle jerks (your idea of a CJ, not mine).

Or would you just rather everyone came to the post about how awesome your downpayment on your new bike is and then just stopped the internet?

Hahahahaha wow. Guess I'm not the only prick this week.

And yeah this thread is a bit of a Subaru cj. Just saying.

Aaron

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 05:02 PM

Umm. There are 6 Subarus mentioned here, with a 7th mentioned in the past tense. I guess Subaru owners don't need to know how to count; less hp, less mpg, more lb, less g. Oh, and more ft of braking.

madvlad

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 06:13 PM

It's Colorado dude, Subaru is the Colorado state car lol, this surprised you how?

Spooph

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 06:44 PM

I don't understand why you'd drive anything other than a Subaru in Colorado... Then again, I have no idea why you'd waste your money on a brand new S1000RR... I guess I'm just closed minded... :P

The Black Knight

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 07:15 PM

I don't understand why you'd drive anything other than a Subaru in Colorado... Then again, I have no idea why you'd waste your money on a brand new S1000RR... I guess I'm just closed minded... :P

I'd rather have my truck than a subaru. :D Something about little cars with low ground clearance just ain't my thing. In the snow that is...

#1Townie

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 07:21 PM

I'd rather have my truck than a subaru. :D Something about little cars with low ground clearance just ain't my thing.

Right? I mean it doesn't happen all that much but man if you have to get through a foot of snow a Subaru just ain't going to cut it.

Also you can't haul a bike with a Subaru. You can't haul lumber with a Subaru. Actually besides just drive you can't really so much with it.

Guess that's why for a car I have something much more comfortable to driver. And for everything else I have a truck.

Aaron

Sun Mar 1st, 2015, 07:46 PM

I wouldn't drive a Subaru because I could be driving a 335i.

I can't say the new RR is logical, that was just an illogical desire.

Spooph

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 09:00 AM

I'd rather have my truck than a subaru. :D Something about little cars with low ground clearance just ain't my thing. In the snow that is...

Thank goodness you live in the good 'ol US of A where you have choices a plenty then....

Right? I mean it doesn't happen all that much but man if you have to get through a foot of snow a Subaru just ain't going to cut it.

Also you can't haul a bike with a Subaru. You can't haul lumber with a Subaru. Actually besides just drive you can't really so much with it.

Guess that's why for a car I have something much more comfortable to driver. And for everything else I have a truck.

Well then, I guess I'm just delusional as I apparently haven't done these things with Subarus, since it can't be done with a Subaru.

Please note, it's not the Subaru disrespect that's getting me, drive what you want, it's the universal statements. It's easy to point out limitations. Surprisingly similar to excuses, pessimism and negativity. Much easier to feel good about oneself by tearing somebody else down. That's probably why the world is in the state it is today. And there ya go, from Subaru bashing to world-wide societal failure.

Also I truly am happy for you all who choose not to drive Subarus. It must be wonderful to enjoy not driving a vehicle so much, but to me, it sounds like somebody feels left out... :P

bulldog

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 09:39 AM

Aaron must have missed my disclaimer on first page....exactly why I put it on there :lol:

And before it is said, yes Audi and BMW's are sick in snow too....I could imagine, never owned one. Not comparing, just happy at my little Rex. :lol:

Thank goodness you live in the good 'ol US of A where you have choices a plenty then....

Well then, I guess I'm just delusional as I apparently haven't done these things with Subarus, since it can't be done with a Subaru.

Please note, it's not the Subaru disrespect that's getting me, drive what you want, it's the universal statements. It's easy to point out limitations. Surprisingly similar to excuses, pessimism and negativity. Much easier to feel good about oneself by tearing somebody else down. That's probably why the world is in the state it is today. And there ya go, from Subaru bashing to world-wide societal failure.

Also I truly am happy for you all who choose not to drive Subarus. It must be wonderful to enjoy not driving a vehicle so much, but to me, it sounds like somebody feels left out... :P
Well said Spooph :up:

For the money I saved going with the Subaru over the 335i I am quite happy (I did test drive a 335i).....both great cars, but a brand new 335i is going to be quite a bit more expensive so the comparison is a bit odd; $10-$12 inot a WRX is going to give some impressive results. Although I never posted this to be about Subarus is better than other cars....I just am really impressed by this car and the first time I can really say I love my car. Honestly I do not think I have met a WRX/STI owner that wasn't super happy with their car.

Anyone remember how Hoopty us to trailer his racebike with his WRX? He did it for years and it can be done....tripped me out the first time I saw it, but he proved to me it had the towing capability.

#1Townie

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 11:04 AM

Thank goodness you live in the good 'ol US of A where you have choices a plenty then....

Well then, I guess I'm just delusional as I apparently haven't done these things with Subarus, since it can't be done with a Subaru.

Please note, it's not the Subaru disrespect that's getting me, drive what you want, it's the universal statements. It's easy to point out limitations. Surprisingly similar to excuses, pessimism and negativity. Much easier to feel good about oneself by tearing somebody else down. That's probably why the world is in the state it is today. And there ya go, from Subaru bashing to world-wide societal failure.

Also I truly am happy for you all who choose not to drive Subarus. It must be wonderful to enjoy not driving a vehicle so much, but to me, it sounds like somebody feels left out... :P

Huh? So wait you call an apple an apple and that is disrespectful? Lol.

Hey you want to bring your Subaru and try to follow my truck through some mud? Lol.

The point is that a Subaru is still a car. I don't care how good it is. If it gets too deep your car won't go. It will loose traction from all the snow piled up under it.

And yes I know that is the same for trucks.

Simmer down. Own your car. Whatever it is. Enjoy it. Have fun. Live life.

Spooph

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 01:33 PM

See, that wasn't so hard now was it? :)

bulldog

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 02:11 PM

It is all about the proper tires :lol:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/11/01-block-tank-live-630op.jpg

Kim-n-Dean

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 03:03 PM

It is all about the proper tires :lol:Indeed, it is...

http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/Tracks-F350.jpg

#1Townie

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 03:07 PM

See, that wasn't so hard now was it? :)

When can I meet you at the mud hole?

bulldog

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 03:08 PM

Indeed, it is...

http://home.comcast.net/~tk4480/CSC/Tracks-F350.jpg

That makes me think of the Traxxas tires you posted. You ever get those Dean or your RC?

Came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T439ogyCdJY

Kim-n-Dean

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 03:23 PM

That makes me think of the Traxxas tires you posted. You ever get those Dean or your RC?Nope. Bought those four funny cars and am going to have to wait a little while. Been spending a lot on toys lately. Almost $4,000 in the last couple months. Kim thinks I should chill out a little!!:scream1:

bulldog

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 03:27 PM

Nope. Bought those four funny cars and am going to have to wait a little while. Been spending a lot on toys lately. Almost $4,000 in the last couple months. Kim thinks I should chill out a little!!:scream1:
Awe.....we have no kids so we can do this stuff :D

At least Kim is into it too; that helps.

GMR

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 10:59 PM

Umm. There are 6 Subarus mentioned here, with a 7th mentioned in the past tense. I guess Subaru owners don't need to know how to count; less hp, less mpg, more lb, less g. Oh, and more ft of braking.

That's exactly what I've thought. I too have developed a rage for Subarus since moving to Colorado. I grew up in a city on the shore of Lake Superior that was all on an incline of 10+ so getting up the hill in a snow storm was very complicated, but even then there were far less subarus there than in Colorado. Don't get me wrong, I like them and think overall they're good cars since they're decently reliable and cheap to fix, but also offer manual transmissions in the fun to drive cars. I looked at a 335i and when I asked about the warranty, the guy quoted like 3-4k for a 24000 mile warranty---eh, no thanks...
I just don't see what the big deal is. You don't need AWD for I70, and a Subaru doesn't have the ground clearance for heavy offroad treks. When my gf totalled her Forester and I gave her my TSX for the time being, she saw the light and realized that a FWD car with snow tires handles better than AWD with all seasons
Driving my truck though I've found RWD is kind of a bitch when the roads are slick. The only solution to being original and having a fun car is the turbo TSX, obviously ;-)

Aaron

Mon Mar 2nd, 2015, 11:11 PM

#1Townie

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 08:24 AM

Exactly! They aren't bad, but they're not God's of the asphalt either. That title seems to be Audi's right now, crushing every Car & Driver comparo they're entered in. Makes me almost consider an RS5, if it only had a clutch pedal.

You know my new toy I got last year is the first with paddle shifters and I have to say I really enjoy it. Yes you can't launch like a stick but it still does a good job.

What I truly enjoy about it is being able to set it in drive and just relax and let the car do its work. If I want to have a bit of fun it's a simple shift and I'm in control of the rpms.

I really enjoy it man.

Spooph

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 08:54 AM

When can I meet you at the mud hole?

Probably never as that's not my gig. I can respect it though and enjoy watching...

However, I will be at the parade if you want to come hang out and meet me face to face.

If not, there will be many other possibilities this summer.

If you want to get personal, send me a PM and we can go grab a coffee sometime.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say Subaru's are the best thing since sliced bread. I'm just saying that they are wickedly fun, affordable cars and perfectly suited to commuting and hooning considering the crazy weather changes (freezing w/ snow one day, and sunny and 70F the next day) that are typical for Colorado. Just because other cars weren't mentioned as much doesn't mean they were being disrespected, nor trucks, and thus, I didn't see why Subarus had to be disrespected. Tis all.

You said it earlier Townie. Live and let live. Drive what you like. Bulldog created this thread as a celebration of his Subaru, after all... If others piped up saying "Yea, I love my _______ in the snow too, for XXXXX reason" and left out the part of dick waiving and who's what's is better and Subarus hatred then we wouldn't be here now, would we?

Respect is all I was hinting at.

#1Townie

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 09:36 AM

Probably never as that's not my gig. I can respect it though and enjoy watching...

However, I will be at the parade if you want to come hang out and meet me face to face.

If not, there will be many other possibilities this summer.

If you want to get personal, send me a PM and we can go grab a coffee sometime.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say Subaru's are the best thing since sliced bread. I'm just saying that they are wickedly fun, affordable cars and perfectly suited to commuting and hooning considering the crazy weather changes (freezing w/ snow one day, and sunny and 70F the next day) that are typical for Colorado. Just because other cars weren't mentioned as much doesn't mean they were being disrespected, nor trucks, and thus, I didn't see why Subarus had to be disrespected. Tis all.

You said it earlier Townie. Live and let live. Drive what you like. Bulldog created this thread as a celebration of his Subaru, after all... If others piped up saying "Yea, I love my _______ in the snow too, for XXXXX reason" and left out the part of dick waiving and who's what's is better and Subarus hatred then we wouldn't be here now, would we?

Respect is all I was hinting at.

Ohhh I think you mistook my invite. But that's okay its the internet.

As for respect... Nah not anymore. As it was clear there was no respect for me none shall be shown.

And that is not referring to you.

I think you read into some of these posts a little too deep. Not once did I hear Subaru is a fucking piece of shit.

And I don't think I disrespected anyone's post in here. It was a simple circle jerk of Subaru's. I didn't bring that just agreed with the statement.

Not sure why you as singling me out. But its cool after the healthcare thread people are probably back to thinking I'm a time bomb. I find that funny. I was never actually angry in that post.

Words are words and you can use them to aim low or high. I find it fun. But honestly you sit here and ask for respect but when I was being made fun of laughed at about severe injury and even death where was the call for respect?

Now over a kind of car you want to come at me with the respect idea? Fuck you. That shit is earned not given.

But again bud you I think you just read too deep into it. Again I just agreed. That's all. But I guess agreeing with someone is disrespectful.

As for your offer for the personal meet... Ummmm... Yeah that's a long trip for some coffie. Lol.

bulldog

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 09:39 AM

Yeah this thread was never meant to say one car was better than the other at all....I like BMW's, Audi's, Evo's, Acura's etc......if anything you guys can share why you love your car so much too :) Just my first AWD....

On a related note on WRX's has anyone ever lost a "tow hook cover". It is this missing piece:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/tyrmeltr/Bumper_zpsa2f4c53a.jpg

Just noticed mine is gone. Dealer wants $18 for a new one, but it will be in black and my car is pearl white. Sad my new car is missing this piece and not sure if someone stole it or it popped of with these storms we have been getting.

Part # 57731FG330 http://parts.subaru.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=57731FG330

Spooph

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 10:42 AM

bulldog

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 11:23 AM

I haven't ever lost that cover Bulldog, not sure if it's a thing - if you say so from the forums then you know more than me. $18 for a cover isn't bad.. Ebay and such? While you're checking, verify you have the tow hook which screws in there... Anyway, if you want another set of eyes on the bumper/new cover to check if there's a way to better mount it, lemme know when you have the new one and we'll figure something out. Thanks. The part is only $18, but I am sure $50+ to get it painted.....oh well sh*t happens and could be worse.

Here is my other option; License plate relocation http://www.grimmspeed.com/license-plate-relocation-kit-subaru/

What you guys think??? To ricey?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f319/jzsickcivic/19148B46-009D-4698-AB89-D677CDC0D0FC-3705-00000284F60CA0A9.jpg

birchyboy

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 11:34 AM

Ezzzzy1

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 12:02 PM

Just noticed mine is gone. Dealer wants $18 for a new one, but it will be in black and my car is pearl white. Sad my new car is missing this piece and not sure if someone stole it or it popped of with these storms we have been getting.

Warranty has covered parts like that for me in the past. Its not like you pulled it off and lost it. IT FELL OFF.

They should get that and take care of you.

bulldog

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 12:04 PM

I hope you're joking about the license plate.

BTW - my wife busted a light cover near the pedals in the Jeep. They don't sell just the cover; you have to buy the whole light fixture. $38 from the dealer or $25 online. It's probably a $2 piece of plastic. :oops: I actually was not kidding since that plastic piece I am missing would totally cover up by the license plate if I moved it there and then I would not have to worry about it getting painted. My co-worker is all into that look, but I am not sure. I assume you think it looks bad....basically opinion I am looking for from people.

Yeah the $18 doesn't bother me, but I bet a paint place is not going to touch this for less than $50; I do have a pearl paint job so that would have to be done as well as a clearcoat. I guess I could just leave it black and say heck with it as doesn't serve anything but looks.

Warranty has covered parts like that for me in the past. Its not like you pulled it off and lost it. IT FELL OFF.

They should get that and take care of you. Thanks EJ, put a call into Groove Subaru and waiting for a call back to see if they will cover that :up:

#1Townie

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 12:10 PM

Hmmmm... Cover the tow hook with the license plate. Might be a bad idea.

Vitesse

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 12:47 PM

Hmmmm... Cover the tow hook with the license plate. Might be a bad idea.

Why is that a bad idea? I wish I could find a similar way to mount a front plate on my Range Rover. I've been pulled over twice so far this year for no front plate. The only plate mounts I can find screw into the front bumper. :(

#1Townie

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:00 PM

Why is that a bad idea? I wish I could find a similar way to mount a front plate on my Range Rover. I've been pulled over twice so far this year for no front plate. The only plate mounts I can find screw into the front bumper. :(

Ummmm because its for a tow hook not a license plate holder.

Aaron might be able to help with this but out here if there is no mount for a plate you don't have to have a front plate. Probably not the same but maybe.

bulldog

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:10 PM

Why is that a bad idea? I wish I could find a similar way to mount a front plate on my Range Rover. I've been pulled over twice so far this year for no front plate. The only plate mounts I can find screw into the front bumper. :( During my search I did come across this one that is for a Range Rover; not sure it will work for you but worth checking out. Seems like it still screws in,but underneath at least
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Range-Rover-Sport-Front-License-Plate-Quick-Release-Bracket-Hardware-/281476396006?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

Spooph

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:10 PM

The Black Knight

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:13 PM

Why is it such a problem for people to run both plates?? Not that anyone here has said it. But I hear it all the time from people that are so offended by having to run two license plates. It's what our state requires just do it.

teamextreme

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:18 PM

Ummmm because its for a tow hook not a license plate holder.

Aaron might be able to help with this but out here if there is no mount for a plate you don't have to have a front plate. Probably not the same but maybe.

Unfortunately, front plate is required in CO. Doesn't matter whether your car has a mount or not.
I'm not a fan of the side mounted front plate in the pic. Looks goofy IMO. I also don't like the idea of covering the tow hook with something.
That cover likely fell off from hitting snow. My Ram has plastic baffles in the holes in the front bumper where factory fog lights go. I've lost 2 of them when hitting deep snow. Now I have jack chain attached to the backside of the baffles and bolted it to the truck behind the bumper so if they get knocked out, they'll at least hang there and not get lost.

bulldog

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:31 PM

If the dealer hoses you... There is always the option of these or many like it: http://www.automotivetouchup.com/ The manufacturer color code helps...

Also, Napa matches/mixes paint. They matched some motorcycle paint for me a while back and it matched perfectly! Ever after it was sun-faded for a couple of decades...

Drive with it black until it's warm enough to paint, then paint it yourself... This might be July at our current rate, but should only cost $20 in paint. AND, then you have touch paint for the future... Just a thought. Thanks man....that is a good idea and with the piece being so low it doesn't have to be perfect as most people would never notice. I am just worried since it is a pearl, but that website states a basecoat and midcoat will be shipped with paint so I hope that means the pearl. I did order touch up paint and it was a white and then a separate pearl.

So far Subaru has not called me back so figure I'll stop by after work in person. Some people say no way is this covered under warranty and others say it is. Figured worth a shot to try and worse they can say is no and I get the $18 black one they are holding for me.

Unfortunately, front plate is required in CO. Doesn't matter whether your car has a mount or not.
I'm not a fan of the side mounted front plate in the pic. Looks goofy IMO. I also don't like the idea of covering the tow hook with something.
That cover likely fell off from hitting snow. My Ram has plastic baffles in the holes in the front bumper where factory fog lights go. I've lost 2 of them when hitting deep snow. Now I have jack chain attached to the backside of the baffles and bolted it to the truck behind the bumper so if they get knocked out, they'll at least hang there and not get lost. Good idea. Now that I know this is a problem I am going to have to do something like that to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Vitesse

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:31 PM

Ummmm because its for a tow hook not a license plate holder.

I still don't understand the problem. That bracket screws into the tow hook mount. So if you need a tow, just unscrew the plate bracket and screw in the tow hook. :dunno:

During my search I did come across this one that is for a Range Rover; not sure it will work for you but worth checking out. Seems like it still screws in,but underneath at least
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Range-Rover-Sport-Front-License-Plate-Quick-Release-Bracket-Hardware-/281476396006?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

This is exactly what I want, but doesn't work with my model year. The search continues...

birchyboy

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:38 PM

:oops: I actually was not kidding since that plastic piece I am missing would totally cover up by the license plate if I moved it there and then I would not have to worry about it getting painted. My co-worker is all into that look, but I am not sure. I assume you think it looks bad....basically opinion I am looking for from people.

Yeah the $18 doesn't bother me, but I bet a paint place is not going to touch this for less than $50; I do have a pearl paint job so that would have to be done as well as a clearcoat. I guess I could just leave it black and say heck with it as doesn't serve anything but looks.

Thanks EJ, put a call into Groove Subaru and waiting for a call back to see if they will cover that :up:

Sorry, I just don't care for the look. What will you put on the other side when that one falls out? A plate that says "Do you lift, bro?" :)

I think you should get the replacement part and have it painted in the near future. One thing you could try is finding out what paint shop the Subaru dealers use. It's possible that they may be spraying a car the same color as yours, and they could spray your part for next to nothing. Maybe even through the shop a $20.

bulldog

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 01:50 PM

Sorry, I just don't care for the look. What will you put on the other side when that one falls out? A plate that says "Do you lift, bro?" :)

I think you should get the replacement part and have it painted in the near future. One thing you could try is finding out what paint shop the Subaru dealers use. It's possible that they may be spraying a car the same color as yours, and they could spray your part for next to nothing. Maybe even through the shop a $20.
That piece only comes off on one side, so it will never be a issue on other side.

I am with you man and prefer the centered look, but just trying to think of other options that won't have me spending hundreds. One thing I do like is I should get better airflow to the intercooler which is right there. Not sure if it will make that much a difference though.

I can ask my dealer about who they use to paint. $50 I would be cool with, but i always end up getting screwed and get quoted way more than I expected when it comes to paint.....then the pearl makes me think they will even raise it more.

I know only a cosmetic look, but damn does it bug me now.

I still don't understand the problem. That bracket screws into the tow hook mount. So if you need a tow, just unscrew the plate bracket and screw in the tow hook. :dunno:

This is exactly what I want, but doesn't work with my model year. The search continues... Yeah figures it would just unscrew if it came down to needing it for a tow.

Darn I was hoping that would work or you could at least modify it to work. I bet if you have a place to mount it to underneath that it should work pretty universal. I hear you though and would be nicer to get one made for it. I've seen a few that could maybe me modified to work. Here is another one http://www.ebay.com/itm/STO-N-SHO-05-13-Corvette-Quick-Release-License-Plate-Mounting-Relocator-SNS28-/181670711988?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a4c6b12b4&vxp=mtr

DriverDave

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 04:34 PM

Yeah this thread was never meant to say one car was better than the other at all....I like BMW's, Audi's, Evo's, Acura's etc......if anything you guys can share why you love your car so much too :) Just my first AWD...

This was my favorite snow car of all time...1988 Toyota Celica All-Trac Turbo. 5-spd man, AWD, no traction control....drop the clutch and the whole car drifts sideways as you leave everyone in the snowy dust!
http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/driverdave_bucket/Throwback/My%2088%20Celica%20001.jpg (http://s830.photobucket.com/user/driverdave_bucket/media/Throwback/My%2088%20Celica%20001.jpg.html)

DriverDave

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 04:42 PM

As for Subaru, this was my personal favorite...The SVX...made from 1992 to 1997. Mine was a 1994.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/driverdave_bucket/Throwback/side.jpg (http://s830.photobucket.com/user/driverdave_bucket/media/Throwback/side.jpg.html)

Spooph

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 04:52 PM

This was my favorite snow car of all time...1988 Toyota Celica All-Trac Turbo. 5-spd man, AWD, no traction control....drop the clutch and the whole car drifts sideways as you leave everyone in the snowy dust!
http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/driverdave_bucket/Throwback/My%2088%20Celica%20001.jpg (http://s830.photobucket.com/user/driverdave_bucket/media/Throwback/My%2088%20Celica%20001.jpg.html)

Le drool....

As for Subaru, this was my personal favorite...The SVX...made from 1992 to 1997. Mine was a 1994.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/driverdave_bucket/Throwback/side.jpg (http://s830.photobucket.com/user/driverdave_bucket/media/Throwback/side.jpg.html)

Also le drool... I've never gotten this confirmed. Did they come in auto only?

DriverDave

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 04:56 PM

Yes, auto only. Although many guys on the forums did swap in WRX 5 speeds and a few even threw in an STI 6 speed.

asp_125

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 05:46 PM

Drool #2. I would love to find an unmolested Alltrac turbo, or even a 323 GTX. Cheap fun in the snow pretending to be a rally ace.

Ph03niX

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 08:32 PM

Right? I mean it doesn't happen all that much but man if you have to get through a foot of snow a Subaru just ain't going to cut it.

Also you can't haul a bike with a Subaru. You can't haul lumber with a Subaru. Actually besides just drive you can't really so much with it.

Guess that's why for a car I have something much more comfortable to driver. And for everything else I have a truck.

If I can haul this with my little acura, I'd think a subaru would be able to handle much more.. Just saying ;)

Also, I havent had a front license plate for 6 years. Been pulled over twice for that.. :lol:
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad286/Accel-speed/Mobile%20Uploads/20140519_202421.jpg (http://s944.photobucket.com/user/Accel-speed/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20140519_202421.jpg.html)

Wrider

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 08:56 PM

Had my Lesbomobile (Forester) since the end of '12, and never been pulled over for lack of a front plate. I have it in the car, but I just don't want to put it on.

GMR

Tue Mar 3rd, 2015, 10:51 PM

What's the deal with Audi switching to predominantly superchargers these days it seems? Unfortunate for us because IIRC the turbo is better for elevation. Wish I could get a newer turbo Audi with a 6 speed manual, but they're mostly all supercharged these days and starting to make the switch to the dark side like the A6 which I believe only comes in auto

The new STI's are pretty sexy I think (especially in blue), but I've yet to meet a girl who doesn't think the car is completely stupid (because of the name...).

tecknojoe

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 08:58 AM

asp_125

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 09:01 AM

What's the deal with Audi switching to predominantly superchargers these days it seems? Unfortunate for us because IIRC the turbo is better for elevation. Wish I could get a newer turbo Audi with a 6 speed manual, but they're mostly all supercharged these days and starting to make the switch to the dark side like the A6 which I believe only comes in auto
...

Audi has lost their way! ;)

Manual, turbo with that great blowoff valve whistle, lockable front and rear diffs, 800+Hp (in this model anyway).
http://cdn05.motorsportretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/1982-AUDI-QUATTRO-A1-GROUP-B-RALLY-CAR-1.jpg

asp_125

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 09:04 AM

I have the new A3 with S-tronic. I'll never go back to manual again. I really enjoy it over both traditional manual and the much slower tiptronic (or any other single clutch application)

Oh and Pirelli Sottozero 3's murder snow

+1 the DSG in my A3 3.2Quattro was actually fun to drive, paddle shifting and left foot braking like a go-kart.

tecknojoe

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 09:20 AM

and they still secretly have launch control too. not as impressive in the a3 as it is the S4, but still fun :)

Spooph

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 09:22 AM

IIRC the turbo is better for elevation.

Whatchoo talking about? Sure, a turbo is scavenge/waste powered, and a super charger uses some of the power, but doesn't suffer from turbo lag. The turbo's need a dual setup, either in series or parallel (not sure what the mechanical/engine terms are here) - IE, either 2 small turbos for less cylinder or a smaller turbo feeding a bigger turbo, all of which makes plumbing very tricky.

How does that relate to elevation?

birchyboy

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 09:43 AM

Whatchoo talking about? Sure, a turbo is scavenge/waste powered, and a super charger uses some of the power, but doesn't suffer from turbo lag. The turbo's need a dual setup, either in series or parallel (not sure what the mechanical/engine terms are here) - IE, either 2 small turbos for less cylinder or a smaller turbo feeding a bigger turbo, all of which makes plumbing very tricky.

How does that relate to elevation?

Why do you say turbo's need to be a dual setup? Many cars have single units and work extremely well.

GMR

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 09:51 AM

I think he was talking in relationship to minimizing turbo lag a dual setup is used. Most people seeking big power gains switch from twins to a large single turbo though, which is probably what I'd do as well.
And now I just saw shortline has a blue 6 speed manual WRX in their lot...fuck me! Why did I get a truck?
I've driven a few paddle shifter cars, some terrible, the GTR great. Footbraking with the left foot may sound fun, quicker to brake/accelerate through a corner in the right gear but I don't drive track so I better like the idea of somewhere to rest my right hand..that's a true cruise

Wrider

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 11:42 AM

Whatchoo talking about? Sure, a turbo is scavenge/waste powered, and a super charger uses some of the power, but doesn't suffer from turbo lag. The turbo's need a dual setup, either in series or parallel (not sure what the mechanical/engine terms are here) - IE, either 2 small turbos for less cylinder or a smaller turbo feeding a bigger turbo, all of which makes plumbing very tricky.

How does that relate to elevation?

N/A cars lose the most power from elevation, S/C cars lose a bit less, but turbo cars lose the least from elevation changes from what I've read.

Spooph

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 11:50 AM

N/A cars lose the most power from elevation, S/C cars lose a bit less, but turbo cars lose the least from elevation changes from what I've read.

Tell me more! Very curious about this...

Wrider

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 01:22 PM

Tell me more! Very curious about this...

From what I've read, it's simply because S/C cars use every ounce of boost they make while turbos have to bleed off excess boost (via wastegate). At altitude, the S/C is still going to suck in the same volume of air, but seeing as the air is less dense, the PSI is going to be decreased.

The turbo on the other hand, is going to maintain its PSI as the wastegate is set to the PSI, and not limited by what volume is being shoved into the engine.

Both are clearly more efficient than a N/A engine, but they still lose some power.
A little google-fu turned up that the average drag racer with an N/A engine in Denver loses 1 second vs sea level, whereas the average turbo car loses about .4 sec.

This link (http://speedydaddy.com/the-effect-of-altitude-on-a-car-or-truck-engine/) claims that N/A cars lose approx 3% of power for every 1000 ft whereas turbo cars lose approx 1.5% for the same altitude gain.

If I'm incorrect or phrasing this wrong, someone else please feel free to jump in and correct me!

Ezzzzy1

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 01:52 PM

What yall need to do is spool the turbo with nitrous.... Its like having a super charger and a turbo all in one, no lag.

Another option for some good gains without messing with the motor too much is to fog nitrous to the intercooler. Colder air always equals more HP.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/Ezzzzy1/htup_0804_19_zk20_turbo_honda_civic_eg_hatchprec_z psf7vrb7zf.jpg (http://s125.photobucket.com/user/Ezzzzy1/media/htup_0804_19_zk20_turbo_honda_civic_eg_hatchprec_z psf7vrb7zf.jpg.html)

Most people dont "like" like nitrous but over the years I have started to believe thats due to most people being either scared of it or not knowing the first thing about it.

I have had 2 cars with nitrous and there is nothing more fun dollar for dollar than responsibly adding it to any motor.

Aaron

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 02:20 PM

I just like rowing my own gears. I know the DCT is quicker and more efficient, but I prefer manuals. I'll still consider the RS5 and C63, but the Corvette and BMW gain big points with their manual options.

I believe Audi's reasoning for sticking with superchargers is for space restraints and cost. Superchargers are cheaper, take up less space, and last longer. Turbochargers are more efficient and thus will make more power per psi of boost.

At altitude, a supercharged car will suffer the same as a N/A car, figure about 21% at 7,000ft. A turbocharged car will only suffer half of that loss, about 10.5% at 7,000ft. However what you'll also notice in the turbo car is that the timing and lag are drastically affected by altitude. The 335i does not have any noticeable lag at sea level, it's response is instant. Like Jeremy Clarkson says, I know it has lag because it's a turbo car so it must, but it doesn't. At altitude, that's a different story. It's still really good for a turbo car, but you can feel it for sure, and full boost doesn't come in until 2500rpm, where it's 1400 at sea level.

Wrider

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 02:54 PM

At altitude, a supercharged car will suffer the same as a N/A car

Ummm, not true. Read anything about supercharged/turbo vs n/a and it'll say that s/c suffers less than n/a.

DriverDave

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 03:36 PM

From what I've read, it's simply because S/C cars use every ounce of boost they make while turbos have to bleed off excess boost (via wastegate). At altitude, the S/C is still going to suck in the same volume of air, but seeing as the air is less dense, the PSI is going to be decreased.

The turbo on the other hand, is going to maintain its PSI as the wastegate is set to the PSI, and not limited by what volume is being shoved into the engine.

Both are clearly more efficient than a N/A engine, but they still lose some power.
A little google-fu turned up that the average drag racer with an N/A engine in Denver loses 1 second vs sea level, whereas the average turbo car loses about .4 sec.

This link (http://speedydaddy.com/the-effect-of-altitude-on-a-car-or-truck-engine/) claims that N/A cars lose approx 3% of power for every 1000 ft whereas turbo cars lose approx 1.5% for the same altitude gain.

If I'm incorrect or phrasing this wrong, someone else please feel free to jump in and correct me!

The boost gauge on my Celica all-trac always showed 4-5 psi around Denver. When I took a road trip to CA, it showed 8 psi at sea level and felt waaay faster...just my 2 cents from my own experience...just an fyi - this was 20 years ago.

Spooph

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 03:49 PM

Ezzzzy1

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 04:03 PM

The boost gauge on my Celica all-trac always showed 4-5 psi around Denver. When I took a road trip to CA, it showed 8 psi at sea level and felt waaay faster...just my 2 cents from my own experience...just an fyi - this was 20 years ago.

Thats because the wastegate was electronically controlled. Basically controlled by its environment. As far as feeling faster, it was. 3lbs of boost is a lot for a car like the Celica.

Grim2.0

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 04:52 PM

so this then be my question: A super charger and turbo charger with equal amounts of peak boost - would they suffer differently?
Or is the loss because the turbo isn't directly linked to engine RPM's that it has a near infinite amount of boost as it can spin faster and faster, whereas the supercharger is limited to the engine's redline?

Short answer to your question: yes

Altitude effects everything in different ways, cars, humans electric motors...anything that demands POWER is directly effected. You will see minimized losses in Turbo VS S/C because the Turbo is producing greater air intake/fuel via the exhaust (heat and pressure) producing energy which in THEORY could be infinite but is obviously limited to what the cars can produce exhaust wise.

The Supercharger is reliant on the Engines RPM so it relies on the pulleys and is considered a "step up" transformation.

Because you have to DE-rate the engine at higher altitude due to atmospheric pressure you lose power, loss in power via engine = lose of power directly to the supercharger as well as it demands power.

Because the Turbo creates and relies on exhaust while there is still power lose in the engine there is no lose in the turbo.

I hope that confused you :lol:

Spooph

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 06:37 PM

awesome, thanks Grim!

madvlad

Wed Mar 4th, 2015, 11:40 PM

Superchargers take power to make power. Altitude power loss on top of power transfer loss is a bitch for sure lol... N/A at altitude is seriously drunk and needs to go home lol

Aaron

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 03:06 AM

Ummm, not true. Read anything about supercharged/turbo vs n/a and it'll say that s/c suffers less than n/a.

You're wrong, and here's the numbers. Now first, I'll say in general. There are electronically controlled, ambient pressure adjusting wastegates. They are extremely rare in automotive applications, used mainly for aircraft. In fact I've never heard of one being used in an automotive application. There are also ambient pressure supercharger bleed-off valves, that basically spin the supercharger faster than needed all the time, and bleed off excess boost. Again extremely rare, and never been in an OEM application as far as I'm aware. This is for 99% of automotive applications, including the Subarus, BMW's, and my Fiero.

Sea level = 14.69psi
Colorado Springs = 11.7 (That is the cells that my piggyback is at with ign on, engine off).

Anyways, we lose about 3psi ambient pressure due to altitude. For an N/A car, this is a 20.4% loss in air pressure, which would equate to a 20.4% loss in power (Assuming same ignition timing maps, which is likely).

Back in high school, I had a friend who moved here from Texas, on the coast, who had a modded GTP. Via his data-logging software, he saw dead on 15psi. Added to the 14.69, he had 29.69psia. However here in Colorado, due to how a supercharger works, he only saw 12psi. Combined with the lower atmospheric pressure, he only got 23.7psia. He saw a 20.2% drop in psia, equating to a rough 20.2% drop in power, near identical to the N/A numbers.

Boost is pressure above ambient. Superchargers will show less boost as altitude increases. This is because they are set to run at a certain speed, which means a certain airflow. So on the inlet side of the supercharger, they are down 3psi ambient. Because there is less air going into the blower (3psi less), there's less coming out (3 psi less). So you've got a 3psi loss in boost pressure, mixed with a 3psi loss in ambient pressure, about a 6psi loss in total air pressure, which gets us our roughly 20% loss in power.

However, things are different for a turbocharger, since boost (Pressure above ambient), is kept equal at your peak power. So for me, it was 14psi. Added to the 14.69, at sea level, I'd have 28.69psia. Up here, that drops to 11.7 + 14 = 25.7psia. A 10.4% loss in power, roughly half that of the N/A and SC cars, exactly what we'd expect.

Superchargers suffer just as much power loss at altitude as N/A cars, with turbo cars being about half of those.

Kim-n-Dean

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 06:37 AM

Altitude effects everything in different ways, cars, humans electric motors...anything that demands POWER is directly effected. I'm curious as to how altitude affects electric motors. While I've never dyno'd my nitro or electric R/C cars at 11,000' when we are camping, I can see a lose in power on the nitro cars, but never on the electrics. I would think an electric car would be faster at altitude. No power lose, but the air is thinner. Therefore, less aerodynamic drag.

Spooph

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 08:16 AM

You're wrong, and here's the numbers. Now first, I'll say in general. There are electronically controlled, ambient pressure adjusting wastegates. They are extremely rare in automotive applications, used mainly for aircraft. In fact I've never heard of one being used in an automotive application. There are also ambient pressure supercharger bleed-off valves, that basically spin the supercharger faster than needed all the time, and bleed off excess boost. Again extremely rare, and never been in an OEM application as far as I'm aware. This is for 99% of automotive applications, including the Subarus, BMW's, and my Fiero.

Sea level = 14.69psi
Colorado Springs = 11.7 (That is the cells that my piggyback is at with ign on, engine off).

Anyways, we lose about 3psi ambient pressure due to altitude. For an N/A car, this is a 20.4% loss in air pressure, which would equate to a 20.4% loss in power (Assuming same ignition timing maps, which is likely).

Back in high school, I had a friend who moved here from Texas, on the coast, who had a modded GTP. Via his data-logging software, he saw dead on 15psi. Added to the 14.69, he had 29.69psia. However here in Colorado, due to how a supercharger works, he only saw 12psi. Combined with the lower atmospheric pressure, he only got 23.7psia. He saw a 20.2% drop in psia, equating to a rough 20.2% drop in power, near identical to the N/A numbers.

Boost is pressure above ambient. Superchargers will show less boost as altitude increases. This is because they are set to run at a certain speed, which means a certain airflow. So on the inlet side of the supercharger, they are down 3psi ambient. Because there is less air going into the blower (3psi less), there's less coming out (3 psi less). So you've got a 3psi loss in boost pressure, mixed with a 3psi loss in ambient pressure, about a 6psi loss in total air pressure, which gets us our roughly 20% loss in power.

However, things are different for a turbocharger, since boost (Pressure above ambient), is kept equal at your peak power. So for me, it was 14psi. Added to the 14.69, at sea level, I'd have 28.69psia. Up here, that drops to 11.7 + 14 = 25.7psia. A 10.4% loss in power, roughly half that of the N/A and SC cars, exactly what we'd expect.

Superchargers suffer just as much power loss at altitude as N/A cars, with turbo cars being about half of those.

Good stuff right here, at least to get me digging deeper. Thanks Aaron!

Grim2.0

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 08:31 AM

I'm curious as to how altitude affects electric motors. While I've never dyno'd my nitro or electric R/C cars at 11,000' when we are camping, I can see a lose in power on the nitro cars, but never on the electrics. I would think an electric car would be faster at altitude. No power lose, but the air is thinner. Therefore, less aerodynamic drag.

I'm curious as to how altitude affects electric motors. While I've never dyno'd my nitro or electric R/C cars at 11,000' when we are camping, I can see a lose in power on the nitro cars, but never on the electrics. I would think an electric car would be faster at altitude. No power lose, but the air is thinner. Therefore, less aerodynamic drag.

Ironically enough Electric Motors are my specialty!!

The nitty gritty is in fact air density which effects ambient temperature, the thinner the air the less the cooling capacity, electric motors MUST have a set amount of cool air blowing over them to push the heat dissipating on the cooling fins of the body. The hotter a motor gets the less performance it has, the solution is oversize and de-rate to account for the power loss. The principal per EASA is a 3% de-rate per 1,000ft after 3,300ft ASL (above sea level).

Those little RC cars dont have much power in them for you to even notice that 3% loss per 1000FT even if you have a 1hp operating at 6,000ft with a 9% loss you would have roughly .93HP not nearly enough to visually notice. The other thing you have to factor is you live in Colorado and in Parker along where I live we are already above 3300ft ASL you already have losses that you are accustom to and dont even know it. The motors i deal with range from 100HP to 500,000HP so the de-rate and loss is very significant.

I actually just had two 450HP motors at Cripple Creek gold mine in Victor Colorado overheat and fail three weeks ago because the original engineer did not account for altitude, the demand on the machine they were running was 450HP but because they only gave them a motor capable of 450HP at the 10,000 ft ASL they were at (21% de-rate) the motor was actually only operating at 355HP thus the demand was forcing the motor to work harder to keep up, the motor will do what is asked of it so it works harder, hotter until something either goes boom or burns up.

Result I sold them two 600HP motors operating at 474HP @ 10000ft ASL. Good day for me bad day for them :lol:

Kim-n-Dean

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 08:47 AM

Ironically enough Electric Motors are my specialty!!

The nitty gritty is in fact air density which effects ambient temperature, the thinner the air the less the cooling capacity, electric motors MUST have a set amount of cool air blowing over them to push the heat dissipating on the cooling fins of the body. The hotter a motor gets the less performance it has, the solution is oversize and de-rate to account for the power loss. The principal per EASA is a 3% de-rate per 1,000ft after 3,300ft ASL (above sea level).

Those little RC cars dont have much power in them for you to even notice that 3% loss per 1000FT even if you have a 1hp operating at 6,000ft with a 9% loss you would have roughly .93HP not nearly enough to visually notice. The other thing you have to factor is you live in Colorado and in Parker along where I live we are already above 3300ft ASL you already have losses that you are accustom to and dont even know it. The motors i deal with range from 100HP to 500,000HP so the de-rate and loss is very significant.

I actually just had two 450HP motors at Cripple Creek gold mine in Victor Colorado overheat and fail three weeks ago because the original engineer did not account for altitude, the demand on the machine they were running was 450HP but because they only gave them a motor capable of 450HP at the 10,000 ft ASL they were at (21% de-rate) the motor was actually only operating at 355HP thus the demand was forcing the motor to work harder to keep up, the motor will do what is asked of it so it works harder, hotter until something either goes boom or burns up.

Result I sold them two 600HP motors operating at 474HP @ 10000ft ASL. Good day for me bad day for them :lol:I had no idea. That's some cool info. My motors have fans on them for cooling. If the fan has enough CFM to cool the motor as if it were at sea level, would the altitude affect still be there? I'm assuming the altitude affect only happens after the motor heats up?

Grim2.0

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 09:21 AM

I had no idea. That's some cool info. My motors have fans on them for cooling. If the fan has enough CFM to cool the motor as if it were at sea level, would the altitude affect still be there? I'm assuming the altitude affect only happens after the motor heats up?

Indeed it would and correct but keep in mind these motors get hot fast, there is low voltage but high current flowing through them and the harder the motor works the higher the current. On an RC car every time you stop you have to start again and starting or ramp up is the peak of the torque curve demanding higher current. The motors i work with are the same as your little motor, it has a TEFC enclosure (totally enclosed fan cooled). the CFM rating on the motor is set per that HP and speed rating however all electric motors have a standard insulation class and ambient temp rating, the higher the DE-rate the less the motor has to work thus less heat generated.

Regardless of the amount CFM flow over your motor you still have to account for Watts Loss through heat in the motor the motor will always generate the same amount of heat based on the function its performing and you will always supply the same amount of cooling air based on rotational speed, as long as you do not exceed the ambient rating no harm no foul. The biggest argument we have is "bigger fan more cooling air" which is wrong, you can gain the same amount of CFM with a fan half the size of a 10" DIA fan based on rotational speed. Its all about speed, and the fastest motor on the market that is coil wound and not a permanent magnet stator or rotor is 3600RPM or 2-pole, usually used for reciprocating Compressors.

Your RC cars have an advantage though....its a moving part, you have the cooling air from your fan on the motor but also the air over the vehicle when in operation.

Edit: One option there is to eleviate this issue is a Water cooled Motor however this is not cheap my any means and is much larger as well. Even still there will be slight losses due to atmospheric pressure and the motor having to work harder.

birchyboy

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 09:48 AM

Cool info Grim.

madvlad

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 09:57 AM

Kim-n-Dean

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 10:50 AM

Indeed it would and correct but keep in mind these motors get hot fast, there is low voltage but high current flowing through them and the harder the motor works the higher the current. On an RC car every time you stop you have to start again and starting or ramp up is the peak of the torque curve demanding higher current.It's pretty amazing the current these little suckers are capable of! My 6400 mAh LiPo batteries, brushless 2400Kv motor and ESC can pull over 160 amps.

Grim2.0

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 11:02 AM

It's pretty amazing the current these little suckers are capable of! My 6400 mAh LiPo batteries, brushless 2400Kv motor and ESC can pull over 160 amps.

160Amp @ 2400Kv is pretty impressive, and will tickle if you touch it as well, I imagine there are quite a few capacitors in there, and this is all DC power we work with a ton of AC power but we also sell Variable frequency drives so the AC from the utility comes in, is converted to Dc through IGBT's then back to AC to the Motor.

The Lower the voltage the higher the current draw, always makes me laugh when someone brags about voltage being high IE 100,000 volts but its only drawing 1.2 Amps enough to sting but not put you down.

Then i have a 230V motor that can pull 7,250 amps that will not only kill you but will cook, and blow your ass up.

SCIENCE!!! :lol:

Kim-n-Dean

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 11:30 AM

The Lower the voltage the higher the current draw, always makes me laugh when someone brags about voltage being high IE 100,000 volts but its only drawing 1.2 Amps enough to sting but not put you down. What makes me laugh is when I hear someone say they are going to swap out all their 110V equipment for more expensive 220V because they think their power bill will go down. I hear it all the time for grow room lights. A 1,000W light still pulls 1,000 watts regardless of input voltage. Since the power company charges by watt/hour, your bill remains the same! Dropping amperage on the line doesn't help your bill.

Grim2.0

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 11:42 AM

What makes me laugh is when I her someone say they are going to swap out all their 110V equipment for more expensive 220V because they think their power bill will go down. I hear it all the time for grow room lights. A 1,000W light still pulls 1,000 watts regardless of input voltage. Since the power company charges by watt/hour, your bill remains the same! Dropping amperage on the line doesn't help your bill.

:spit:

so lets increase the voltage input when the demand never changes?? makes sense to me.....

The other question is where are they going to pull the 220V and what phase? unless your house was built in a friggin industrial park where they have a third leg it wont do you any good. Every neighborhood is equipped with 110V Single phase power nobody has 3 phase access.

We had a guy who was retrofitting his own lathe, he "acquired" a three phase 230/460V 7.5HP 3600RPM motor, some motors have up to 12 leads but if its single wired for one voltage either 230 or 460 WYE or Delta there are only 3 leads. His had 3 leads wired for 460V, naturally when you dont know what you are doing three leads clearly would mean 2 power 1 ground right??? So thats what he did, he took 3 power leads put two in the power supply and 1 on the ground....motor go boom black smoke and bad smell.

He cant for the life understand why it blew up he was certain it was wired correctly, i tell him its a 3 phase motor and you dont have 3 phase at your house you need to buy a single phase cap start motor.

It sounds like you know your electricity and wiring so imagine what happens when you take three power wires that all connect at some point and grounding one while power is flowing through??

Kim-n-Dean

Thu Mar 5th, 2015, 12:28 PM

The other question is where are they going to pull the 220V and what phase?For lights, just put in a breaker that grabs both legs in your breaker panel. That's what I did for my hot tube and CNC mill. I was going to go three phase on the mill, but learned phase converters aren't worth a shit, so regular ol' residential 220.

It sounds like you know your electricity and wiring so imagine what happens when you take three power wires that all connect at some point and grounding one while power is flowing through??What's that smell?!?!? My brother finished his basement and did his own wiring, which he knows nothing about. I asked him how does he know if it's right or not. He said he just kept connecting wires until the breakers stopped popping. I gave him a "live" demonstration of how a system can be wired where the breaker never pops, even while the circuit is throwing sparks and melting wires. He shut down his panel and called an electrician.

Penadam

Mon Mar 9th, 2015, 08:21 PM

You're wrong, and here's the numbers. Now first, I'll say in general. There are electronically controlled, ambient pressure adjusting wastegates. They are extremely rare in automotive applications, used mainly for aircraft. In fact I've never heard of one being used in an automotive application. There are also ambient pressure supercharger bleed-off valves, that basically spin the supercharger faster than needed all the time, and bleed off excess boost. Again extremely rare, and never been in an OEM application as far as I'm aware. This is for 99% of automotive applications, including the Subarus, BMW's, and my Fiero.

Sea level = 14.69psi
Colorado Springs = 11.7 (That is the cells that my piggyback is at with ign on, engine off).

Anyways, we lose about 3psi ambient pressure due to altitude. For an N/A car, this is a 20.4% loss in air pressure, which would equate to a 20.4% loss in power (Assuming same ignition timing maps, which is likely).

Back in high school, I had a friend who moved here from Texas, on the coast, who had a modded GTP. Via his data-logging software, he saw dead on 15psi. Added to the 14.69, he had 29.69psia. However here in Colorado, due to how a supercharger works, he only saw 12psi. Combined with the lower atmospheric pressure, he only got 23.7psia. He saw a 20.2% drop in psia, equating to a rough 20.2% drop in power, near identical to the N/A numbers.

Boost is pressure above ambient. Superchargers will show less boost as altitude increases. This is because they are set to run at a certain speed, which means a certain airflow. So on the inlet side of the supercharger, they are down 3psi ambient. Because there is less air going into the blower (3psi less), there's less coming out (3 psi less). So you've got a 3psi loss in boost pressure, mixed with a 3psi loss in ambient pressure, about a 6psi loss in total air pressure, which gets us our roughly 20% loss in power.

However, things are different for a turbocharger, since boost (Pressure above ambient), is kept equal at your peak power. So for me, it was 14psi. Added to the 14.69, at sea level, I'd have 28.69psia. Up here, that drops to 11.7 + 14 = 25.7psia. A 10.4% loss in power, roughly half that of the N/A and SC cars, exactly what we'd expect.

Superchargers suffer just as much power loss at altitude as N/A cars, with turbo cars being about half of those.

Two clarifications:

1) You're referring to positive displacement superchargers (roots and screw are typical), which have a fixed compression ratio. Centrifugal supercharges are more like belt driven turbos and can have wastegates, though it would be wasteful to size them as such (you'd be wasting engine output, instead of exhaust energy).

2) You can mitigate a lot of the power loss of a supercharge at altitude by changing the pulley size, causing it to spin faster for a given engine speed. You'll end up with absolute (atmospheric+boost) intake pressure closer to what you'd have at sea level.

Aaron

Mon Mar 9th, 2015, 09:19 PM

1) My first paragraph I mentioned that exception, where they essentially use a waste gate to bleed off excess pressure. This can be done on any type of blower, but is generally geared more toward the centrifugal since the primary goal isn't to combat altitude, it's to combat the linear boost increase with rpm. By itself, a centrifugal blower is hurt just as much at altitude as a roots and screw, and N/A cars. Waste gating superchargers is still really rare too.

2) You're right about that, and the same can be done with a turbocharger (Even easier actually). But it can be dangerous as your intake charge temps will be higher, and you are still limited at 91 octane.