Yes, sometimes they ARE out to kill you.....

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/driver-who-swerved-to-hit-a-motorcycle-i-dont-care-1737184460?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+jalopnik%2Ffull+%28Jalopnik%2 9

There's no doubt this was intentional, especially the "I don't care!" comment. This guy needs serious prison time.....or a good lynching.....

[Mother Goose]

You should see some of the idiots on the Fox31 facebook post about this.

Keith Clark (https://www.facebook.com/street.vibes.125?fref=ufi) Speeding. Passing on a double solid yellow line. I wish they died. Good job by guy in car

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

You should see some of the idiots on the Fox31 facebook post about this.

Keith Clark (https://www.facebook.com/street.vibes.125?fref=ufi) Speeding. Passing on a double solid yellow line. I wish they died. Good job by guy in car
Maybe this guy needs a lesson.......

[madvlad]

I'm sure all the idiots posting against the biker and passenger have broken laws before so maybe they should die too... fucking bunch of stupid fucking morons roaming this earth...

[~Barn~]

Bravery behind the wheel (or the clip-ons) sometimes comes with a heavy tax. You've been warned.

[Ezzzzy1]

I dont get it. With anything in life you have to pay to play. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. The car driver should go to jail and the motorcyclist should quit bitching about being a "victim". Its a joke. His illegal riding got him into this.

I can tell you this: if the motorcyclist wasn't illegally passing in the other lane he wouldnt have gotten hit.

Now there is a gofundme because he has 3 teenagers at home and they are all going to loose their home... Im guessing (just a guess) that the bike wasnt insured and neither were they (medically).

I am sick and tired of people that cant even put one foot in front of another in life, dont have any money saved up, dont have insurance, dont realize what an accident can do to your life, dont wear ATGATT putting themselves in these situations and then asking the public to feel sorry for them and give them money.

The driver of the car is a complete piece of shit but so is the rider.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

THE CAR DRIVER: William Crum (68) of Grandbury, Texas. He was driving a 2 door 1996 Mercury. His Address: 2616 Unicorn CT, Grandbury, Texas 76048. THE MOTORCYCLE DRIVER: Eric Sanders (37) whom is doing fine. THE MOTORCYCLE PASSENGER: Debra Simpson (38) is in ICU at Harris Methodist Hospital in Fort Worth with severe arm and leg injuries.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I dont get it. With anything in life you have to pay to play. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. The car driver should go to jail and the motorcyclist should quit bitching about being a "victim". Its a joke. His illegal riding got him into this.

I can tell you this: if the motorcyclist wasn't illegally passing in the other lane he wouldnt have gotten hit.

Now there is a gofundme because he has 3 teenagers at home and they are all going to loose their home... Im guessing (just a guess) that the bike wasnt insured and neither were they (medically).

I am sick and tired of people that cant even put one foot in front of another in life, dont have any money saved up, dont have insurance, dont realize what an accident can do to your life, dont wear ATGATT putting themselves in these situations and then asking the public to feel sorry for them and give them money.

The driver of the car is a complete piece of shit but so is the rider.
That's just about the dumbest f#cking thing I've ever heard. Yes, the rider was passing on a DY.....but NOTHING gives him the right or authority, or justification to attempt to murder the guy. the rider should get a minor traffic ticket, as he deserves, the car driver needs to go to prison. Think about this there f#cking genius, the next guy run into a ditch or hit could be YOU.....for little or no reason at all.

Aaron, or any other LEO's wanna chime in on this "genius's" statement justifying what the cager did?

[Ezzzzy1]

That's just about the dumbest f#cking thing I've ever heard. Yes, the rider was passing on a DY.....but NOTHING gives him the right or authority, or justification to attempt to murder the guy. the rider should get a minor traffic ticket, as he deserves, the car driver needs to go to prison. Think about this there f#cking genius, the next guy run into a ditch or hit could be YOU.....for little or no reason at all.

Aaron, or any other LEO's wanna chime in on this "genius's" statement justifying what the cager did?

Blow me CM. Im not justifying anything the driver did. You seem to be justifying what the rider did. Passing illegally, not wearing ATGATT, not having insurance, no money saved up to be out of work.... sounds like your kinda guy! ;)

[~Barn~]

With anything in life you have to pay to play.


Everyone is responsible for their own actions.


I am sick and tired of people <Snip...> putting themselves in these situations


<Snip...> The car driver should go to jail <Snip>


That's just about the dumbest f#cking thing I've ever heard. Aaron, or any other LEO's wanna chime in on this "genius's" statement justifying what the cager did?

:lol:

I hope that the irony is not lost on you Frank. If you took a moment to slow down and actually read what other people contribute, instead of always letting your own internal, emotionally-funded naivety command you (at least as you normally do during your online rants), you'd realize that what EJ wrote was entirely sensible; and it is your comments that actually read as foolish and regrettably "fucking dumb".

EJ's thoughts were far more profound and valuable to the actual state of this discussion, than your personal response and aggressiveness towards his opinion could ever hope to be. I know you pride yourself on being incorporate amongst the collective "intellect" around here, with all your real world job experience, and maybe even some advanced formal schooling.... But you, my friend, are losing it I'm sorry to say.

[lth]

The driver of the car is a complete piece of shit but so is the rider.

I'll throw myself out there for criticism. I consider safety--my own as well as every other person on the road--paramount on every ride I go on. I have a job, insurance, and always wear my full gear. That said, I admit that I don't always ride under the speed limits and pass on double yellow in certain locations. If that makes me a "complete piece of shit," so be it & flame away. But, ezzy, I just can't believe anyone would say attempted murder and passing on double yellow are remotely comparable. One guy intentionally tried to harm or kill two other people; the other made an illegal lane change.

[Ezzzzy1]

I'll throw myself out there for criticism. I consider safety--my own as well as every other person on the road--paramount on every ride I go on. I have a job, insurance, and always wear my full gear. That said, I admit that I don't always ride under the speed limits and pass on double yellow in certain locations. If that makes me a "complete piece of shit," so be it & flame away. But, ezzy, I just can't believe anyone would say attempted murder and passing on double yellow are remotely comparable. One guy intentionally tried to harm or kill two other people; the other made an illegal lane change.

Youre missing the point. Its way above your head.

First, show me where I said that attempted murder and passing on a double yellow are remotely comparable.
Second, you said "having insurance, and always wear my full gear" (among other things) and that kind of disqualifies you for the "complete piece of shit qualification". Why you may ask? Because you understand the risks involved with simply throwing your leg over the bike and seemingly have taken steps to insure you dont loose everything you have because of an accident needing ultimately to go ask internet strangers to bail you out. If you want to speed and you want to pass on double yellow then thats your call but there is almost no way that you could not see the multiplier of risk/danger when doing so.

You are making this too complex by saying "One guy intentionally tried to harm or kill two other people; the other made an illegal lane change" when all I am saying is that the motorcyclist made the decision to pass illegally, that was his choice and his alone. I suppose you can go through life like CM and blame everyone else for things that happen to you but the reality is YOU are in charge of the decisions YOU make and no one else.

[~Barn~]

I don't think that rider is a piece of shit either, but I don't think he saw what ultimately happened to him, coming. And that, combined with his choice to "go for it" makes him a less-than-impressive example of a "victim" in this case. The fact he included somebody else into this mess (read: his passenger) definitely brings him that-much-nearer that "shitty" designation, however.

Personally I always ride with a sense of impending doom when I am about to roll the dice and do something that could have tragic consequences. I too pass on DY lines, and each time in preparation, my senses act almost against their own instinct, but truthfully I basically expect for somebody to swerve out to hit me!

If you're not the type of rider who tailors these moments and the entire execution of passes like this, to the "what-if" factor, expect that this same situation could and may happen to you! My singular notion is self preservation when I make a controversial pass on a car or another motorcyclist, and I consider every feasible element of it. From the courtesy of using my turn signal, to not only notify other motorists but also as a gauge to the soon-to-be-passed drivers behavior and response. I calculate distances, speeds, spaces, the urgency of the control inputs, my abilities to brake, to swerve, to accelerate. Can I see if they are watching me cautiously or menacingly in their side and rearview mirror? What's the demeanor of any passengers in the car with them? Is the car bashed, wrecked and beaten, or is it well-kept and shiny.... All of it... More.

So yeah.... I don't think that the rider is a piece of shit, but his riding and decision making verywell might be. Not solely for what he did do, but for what he failed to do.

My .02.

[Ezzzzy1]

Youre spot on Barn.... well except that rider. I have zero sympathy for anyone making poor decisions and paying the piper. Just like if I fucked up you wouldnt hear me crying about it. I would except my mistake and start moving in the most positive direction available to me.

If you cant afford to take time off work and have your bills payed, and home safe and on and on and on, then you honestly shouldn't be riding. If you decide to ride you should decide to minimize your exposure to danger. Riding the speed limit, following the laws and wearing good protective gear are GREAT starts to achieving this.

I bet that even if he has/had insurance they would deny the claim because he was breaking the law. Honestly I wonder what the insurance company says, it probably aint "you were speeding and passed in a no passing zone but we are going to pay this out".

[mdub]

aawhh shit...I have to chime in on this .....this IS one main reason why I personally think passenger seats should not be incorporated onto a sports bike. Generally bikes should just be for one. Why would anyone want to be helpless as a passenger. obviously no control, cept for hangin on to dear life.

both riders and driver are ALL FUCK UP. For the rider not to have insurance and riding with a passenger the way he did, well there you go. For the driver. Well that old fucker definitely has some screws loose. Why the hell would anyone say "I don't care" Only psychopaths say shit like that.

[daemon]

I think I can see now why so few visit here now.
To many saints and privileged punks

[Nolan]

Shit like this is why we can't have nice things. Oh I saw something that the he didn't have his m/C endorsement. Both in their late 30s showing that you don't have to be young to be dumb.

I would've passed the guy but I don't ride with a passenger. Unless it's to DQ or around the yard.

[lth]

Youre missing the point. Its way above your head.

First, show me where I said that attempted murder and passing on a double yellow are remotely comparable.
Second, you said "having insurance, and always wear my full gear" (among other things) and that kind of disqualifies you for the "complete piece of shit qualification". Why you may ask? Because you understand the risks involved with simply throwing your leg over the bike and seemingly have taken steps to insure you dont loose everything you have because of an accident needing ultimately to go ask internet strangers to bail you out. If you want to speed and you want to pass on double yellow then thats your call but there is almost no way that you could not see the multiplier of risk/danger when doing so.

You are making this too complex by saying "One guy intentionally tried to harm or kill two other people; the other made an illegal lane change" when all I am saying is that the motorcyclist made the decision to pass illegally, that was his choice and his alone. I suppose you can go through life like CM and blame everyone else for things that happen to you but the reality is YOU are in charge of the decisions YOU make and no one else.




ezzy, why are you insulting me? You accuse me and cycle_monkey of "going through life and blame everyone else for things that happen to you". Seriously? Based on one post that disagrees with you? If you knew me, you'd know that I agree completely with the latter part of your statement: I'm responsible for my own decisions & their consequences.

I'm saying I think the magnitude of "piece of shit"-ness matters here. I disagree that it's as simple as both made a mistake, therefore both are pieces of shit. You made a decision to ride a sportbike, and many people would say, "that's an incredibly stupid choice." The stats would say those people are right--motorcyclists are about 30 times more likely to die than car drivers (per mile driven); maybe sportbiker numbers are even worse--but I would also disagree with anyone who says you're a "piece of shit" because you made that choice.

Peace, man.

[Spooph]

Ezzzy, glad you posted your view point. I've been having this same debate on another forum.

Obviously it's pretty clear both parties are at fault.
Obviously it's pretty clear that the old man in his car was WAY out of line. An attempt on somebody's life is a completely disproportionate response to a traffic infraction. His response was exactly the same as those with aggressive opinions towards him. Just as we might hate him and want vengeance on him, he hated and executed his vengeance against the "arrogant rider who thinks he's above the law". " " as conjecture as to what he was thinking.

It seems to be a pretty clear cut situation.
The rider should get a ticket
The driver should go to jail or some sort. (personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the driver pay for the rider's medical bills as I think that would hurt the most, especially considering his ego.)

I think what is a much more worthwhile conversation is how do we talk about this? Obviously we're torn up. A rider was injured. We feel like a traitor if we point out any wrongs that rider has committed as we could very easily be in that position, and we want that position to be defensible. This is a reasonable emotional response. It's what's perpetuated wars and family feuds spurred by vengeance since the dawn of time. It's very typical human behavior.

However, is it logical, and does it move us as the ridership forward?

Personally, I think the right thing to do would have been for the driver to call the police. The driver isn't a LEO, and a LEO should do the law enforcing, no? Yet, here we are yelling and screaming back and forth, calling each other names and splitting the same "unified" voice which wants to support the rider, no matter what.

Isn't there something we can do as a collective to increase rider safety? NO, it won't be a quick fix, and we probably won't see the results in our lifetime, but isn't there something we can do to get things rolling in the right direction?

[asp_125]

This: http://www.yourglenrosetx.com/article/20151019/NEWS/151019367
Apparently the driver has been arrested and is no saint, either.

I admit we make DY passes and I've made a few risky ones in my day. You roll the dice when you're interacting with cagers, your experience and skill plus a healthy spidey sense will keep you safe but is no guarantee. We accept this every time we ride.

[Ezzzzy1]

ezzy, why are you insulting me? You accuse me and cycle_monkey of "going through life and blame everyone else for things that happen to you". Seriously? Based on one post that disagrees with you? If you knew me, you'd know that I agree completely with the latter part of your statement: I'm responsible for my own decisions & their consequences.

I'm saying I think the magnitude of "piece of shit"-ness matters here. I disagree that it's as simple as both made a mistake, therefore both are pieces of shit. You made a decision to ride a sportbike, and many people would say, "that's an incredibly stupid choice." The stats would say those people are right--motorcyclists are about 30 times more likely to die than car drivers (per mile driven); maybe sportbiker numbers are even worse--but I would also disagree with anyone who says you're a "piece of shit" because you made that choice.

Peace, man.

Im not trying to insult you. I just dont think you are paying attention to what I am saying. Go back to when I asked you to "show me where I said that attempted murder and passing on a double yellow are remotely comparable". We have to be missing each other somewhere if you think that is what I am saying. And now you are saying that I accused you of going through life and blaming everyone else.... Where did I accuse you of that?

Im saying hes a piece of shit for making THESE (not just one) choices. 1. Not wearing full gear. 2. Not making his passenger wear full gear. 3. Not having health insurance. 4. Not having auto insurance. 5. *NEW* Not having a motorcycle endorsement. 6. Not being in a position to not loose their house and support their children.

Notice that I didnt once say passing on the DY or speeding? Even though BOTH of those are 100% the reason he got hit.

Its a conversation online and im sure a lot is lost in translation.

[~Barn~]

Shit like this is why we can't have nice things. Oh I saw something that the he didn't have his m/C endorsement. Both in their late 30s showing that you don't have to be young to be dumb.

Great point.

I read some postings on the motorcycle rider's FB page, and he admitted to knowing that in days prior to this "collision", this same driver had had a "swerving incident" with one of his friends and fellow riders.

My only question then, is this... If the rider knew the driver's (tendencies let's call them), to be hostile and otherwise show anti-motorcycle behavior and aggression.... WHY IN THE FUCK would he still have continued to do what he did, and tempt driver and provoke actions that he ALREADY KNEW WERE LIKELY??

Listen. The car driver is a grumpy old man, who simply doesn't give a fuck. He's lived, he'll die soon, he's a honey badger. He should definitely still get charged with something and convicted of it..

But truthfully, I'm starting to feel less-&-less sorry for this "rider". He strikes me as the type who probably gets into his own head too much, convinced of himself that he can go looking for trouble to solve it, or at least has the notion of "The next motherfucker that does that to me or one of my friends..." Well. There ya go. Welcome to Martyrdom. Cable TV is provided and you can order your meals from your bedside phone. :no:

[Ezzzzy1]

This will all take a fun twist when the girl involved realizes that she it the only one that can sue and then her attorney tells her that she can sue the idiot that was driving the car..... AND THE IDIOT THAT WAS DRIVING THE MOTORCYCLE!

[mdub]

and he doesn't even have an endorsement? Crazy as he was stating get his license plate several times. but did not go to his injured passenger right away...

[Nolan]

I only saw the info on another site. I'm curious as to how this actually plays out 6 months from now.

She's the only person that made one bad choice. The other two made a couple dozen.

[lth]

Im not trying to insult you. I just dont think you are paying attention to what I am saying. Go back to when I asked you to "show me where I said that attempted murder and passing on a double yellow are remotely comparable". We have to be missing each other somewhere if you think that is what I am saying. And now you are saying that I accused you of going through life and blaming everyone else.... Where did I accuse you of that?

Im saying hes a piece of shit for making THESE (not just one) choices. 1. Not wearing full gear. 2. Not making his passenger wear full gear. 3. Not having health insurance. 4. Not having auto insurance. 5. *NEW* Not having a motorcycle endorsement. 6. Not being in a position to not loose their house and support their children.

Notice that I didnt once say passing on the DY or speeding? Even though BOTH of those are 100% the reason he got hit.

Its a conversation online and im sure a lot is lost in translation.

I'm paying attention to what you're saying, and I agree a lot is probably lost in translation. If we're ever at the same CSC event, I'll buy you a beer. Cheers & safe riding to you.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Blow me CM. Im not justifying anything the driver did. You seem to be justifying what the rider did. Passing illegally, not wearing ATGATT, not having insurance, no money saved up to be out of work.... sounds like your kinda guy! ;)
...if you think you can make me.....punk.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

For clarification he got HIT because the guy swerved. Yes, he could have simply stayed home that day. Oh, hey, maybe if he hadn't even been born.... Happy now?

For reference, the DA down ther obviously agrees with my line of thinking vs. yours:
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20151019-driver-accused-of-intentionally-hitting-motorcycle-north-of-granbury.ece

GRANBURY — A 68-year-old man accused of veering his car into a motorcycle, injuring both of its riders, has been arrested on aggravated assault charges.

William Crum of Granbury was arrested Monday afternoon and charged with two counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Hood County District Attorney Rob Christian said Crum would remain in custody pending a bond hearing Tuesday. He didn’t know whether Crum has an attorney who could comment on his behalf.

Each count carries a punishment of two to 20 years in prison if convicted.

The crash happened Saturday on a two-lane road about 5 miles north of Granbury. Eric Sanders, the driver of the motorcycle, contends the car’s driver swerved intentionally. He suffered abrasions, and his girlfriend was taken to a Fort Worth hospital with a broken wrist and deep arm lacerations.

---------------------------------------

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/unusual-explanation-from-driver-whose-car-hit-motorcycle/

GRANBURY, Texas -- A 68-year-old man accused of veering his car across a double yellow line into a motorcycle, sending both of its riders tumbling to the pavement, has been arrested on aggravated assault charges.

Video of the incident has gone viral.

And the accused is claiming a sudden spider bite or wasp sting led him to momentarily lose control of his car.

William Crum, of Granbury, was arrested Monday afternoon and charged with two counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Hood County District Attorney Rob Christian said Crum would remain in custody pending a bond hearing Tuesday. He didn't know whether Crum has an attorney who could comment on his behalf.

Each count carries a punishment of two to 20 years in prison if convicted.

The crash happened Saturday on a two-lane road about 5 miles north of Granbury and was captured on video, which has since gone viral, by another motorist.

The video shows motorcyclist Eric Sanders crossing double yellow lines in an apparent effort to pass a car on Texas's Tin Top Highway.

The car can then be seen sideswiping Sanders' bike, on which Sanders' girlfriend was also riding.

Crum told CBS Dallas his actions were "uncontrollable. I felt the heavy sting and, reflex, whatever. My hand was on the wheel." He says the spider bit him in the inner-thigh. Previously, he said it was a wasp sting.

CBS Dallas asked Crum to show evidence of the insect interaction, but the station's reporter saw no sign of it.

Sanders contends the car's driver swerved intentionally. He told CBS Houston affiliate KHOU-TV he's "seen people pull in front of me all the time, people cut me off all the time. Never in my life has anyone tried to hit me."

The man who shot the video confronted Crum and recorded the exchange.

"What were you doing? You hit them," the man can be heard saying.

"I don't care," Crum replies.

Crum told CBS Dallas Monday he's seen other motorcyclists on that road doing "wheelies at 60 mph, and I thought he was one of those. I didn't know there was a passenger."

Sanders suffered abrasions, and his girlfriend was taken to a Fort Worth hospital with a broken wrist and deep arm lacerations. She was moved from the Intensive Care Unit Monday to a regular room and was listed in stable condition, CBS Dallas says.

-------------------------------

http://www.yourglenrosetx.com/article/20151019/news/151019367

[~Barn~]

What's even more funny about all of this (at least to my observation anyway), is that I have a sneaky feeling that guys like Monkey and his ilk tend to be outraged over things like this when they feel personally connected to it, but not under circumstances where they have no personal empathy or allegiance.

It's like in a case like this, their passion and frustration is so great, and the perceived injustice and anger that they feel towards the person who performed the assault is so strong and unflappable, even though the quote/unquote "victim" maybe made decisions to help put themselves into the situation. The affiliation of being a fellow "rider" makes it so undeniably "personal" to how they form their opinion.

Yet when a person from (perhaps say....) the inner city is shot and killed (often by cops no less!) and some camera footage shows them shoplifting, or stealing a car, or doing/selling drugs, or breaking a noise ordinance with their car stereo, or some other minimally impactful "illegal act", the response is always the same: Deserved it. The guy was a thug.

:lol:

[Gramps]

Ezzzy, glad you posted your view point. I've been having this same debate on another forum.

Obviously it's pretty clear both parties are at fault.
Obviously it's pretty clear that the old man in his car was WAY out of line. An attempt on somebody's life is a completely disproportionate response to a traffic infraction. His response was exactly the same as those with aggressive opinions towards him. Just as we might hate him and want vengeance on him, he hated and executed his vengeance against the "arrogant rider who thinks he's above the law". " " as conjecture as to what he was thinking.

It seems to be a pretty clear cut situation.
The rider should get a ticket
The driver should go to jail or some sort. (personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the driver pay for the rider's medical bills as I think that would hurt the most, especially considering his ego.)

I think what is a much more worthwhile conversation is how do we talk about this? Obviously we're torn up. A rider was injured. We feel like a traitor if we point out any wrongs that rider has committed as we could very easily be in that position, and we want that position to be defensible. This is a reasonable emotional response. It's what's perpetuated wars and family feuds spurred by vengeance since the dawn of time. It's very typical human behavior.

However, is it logical, and does it move us as the ridership forward?

Personally, I think the right thing to do would have been for the driver to call the police. The driver isn't a LEO, and a LEO should do the law enforcing, no? Yet, here we are yelling and screaming back and forth, calling each other names and splitting the same "unified" voice which wants to support the rider, no matter what.

Isn't there something we can do as a collective to increase rider safety? NO, it won't be a quick fix, and we probably won't see the results in our lifetime, but isn't there something we can do to get things rolling in the right direction?

Sadly I have to say the answer to your question is maybe. I have tried with only minimal success to take beginners "under my wing" so to speak and only a few have realized or appreciated the effort. Some I'm sad to say were not even interested in the attempt and made decisions that had large risk.

This is a positive direction for this conversation. Instead of complaining or pointing fingers at people that probably none of us will ever know or meet why not try to nmake a difference in an area you can control.

Interesting thoughts!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

What's even more funny about all of this (at least to my observation anyway), is that I have a sneaky feeling that guys like Monkey and his ilk tend to be outraged over things like this when they feel personally connected to it, but not under circumstances where they have no personal empathy or allegiance.

It's like in a case like this, their passion and frustration is so great, and the perceived injustice and anger that they feel towards the person who performed the assault is so strong and unflappable, even though the quote/unquote "victim" maybe made decisions to help put themselves into the situation. The affiliation of being a fellow "rider" makes it so undeniably "personal" to how they form their opinion.

Yet when a person from (perhaps say....) the inner city is shot and killed (often by cops no less!) and some camera footage shows them shoplifting, or stealing a car, or doing/selling drugs, or breaking a noise ordinance with their car stereo, or some other minimally impactful "illegal act", the response is always the same: Deserved it. The guy was a thug.

:lol:
"Ilk"? You mean NON-habitual DUI crowd? If so, that's me. :) I'll argue "morals" and "judgement" at length with you any time bro, so you can get off your high (liberal) horse any time now.....I'll help ya down. :)

Ok, so, "Ilk" here thinks the rider made a questionable pass, definately worthy of a ticket, but not unsafe as far as I saw. And so, him and the other rider should get a ticket for passing on a double yellow, and any equipment or license violations they may be guilty of. Fair enough, the video SHOWS them to be guilty. That said, NOTHING the rider did gave the car driver the RIGHT or the AUTHORITY to PURPOSELY slam his car into the rider. PERIOD.

As for the absurd "inner city" comment, for example in the Mike Brown case, if the THUG had just stolen a box of cigars, he or any other THUG does not deserve to get shot for that. No, what that THUG got shot for was ASSAULTING AN OFFICER, and trying to take his gun. And, obviously the DA and Grand Jury agree with my sense of judgement and morals there (not yours), as they did in the Zimmerman/Martin case....and obviously as they did in THIS case. Please also note that the DA has so far declined to press "failure to wear ATGATT" charges as ASSSSSY1 would advocate. Ahhh, children......

[~Barn~]

Sure Frank... I've made mistakes, you clearly know that. But your Ad hominem material doesn't help you out in this case. And really, it's so dated at this point, it just kinda makes you look desperate.

All of my misgivings have been dealt with, served, remunerated, rehabilitated, and otherwise paid-in-full, long-long ago. Did I have a stretch of pressing my luck and paying the piper (both in real court and in the court of public opinion) for drinking and driving? Yeah, anybody who's known me, knows that.. But how far back do you expect to leverage this? Another 10 years from now? :lol:
So yeah... No need helping this high horse down from anywhere; it's just one of many in the stable. Kinda like all the bikes I ride. ;)

But no hard feelings. I realize that my opinion probably stings, and if my young adult life continues to be your "goto" in substitute for actual substance, so be it. All it really does it make my replies that much easier. =)

[Spooph]

CYCLE_MONKY - glad you cited an article which also included that the rider had an invalid license and got cited for an improper pass... Which has been the point all along. To pull a page out of your own book then:

The more I spend with your words the more I see that such a narrow field of problem identification can only result in one thing: Bi-partisanship. That means, no matter how angry you get, no matter how many capital letters you put in a response, no matter what you do, your perception only allows for one perspective, and by limiting yourself to only one perspective you perpetuate that which you abhore. Since you are then the cause and result of your own aggravation only you can end or worsen it.

It is sad that you so stubbornly cling to that very narrow perspective and block out our attempts at helping you alleviate your own suffering and maybe actually do some good by trying to find something good in this situation - like an educational opportunity.

You can bring a horse to water and you can beat it to death, but you can't make it drink. I guess the horse will die of thirst because it is too proud to drink.

[daemon]

This: http://www.yourglenrosetx.com/article/20151019/NEWS/151019367
Apparently the driver has been arrested and is no saint, either.

I admit we make DY passes and I've made a few risky ones in my day. You roll the dice when you're interacting with cagers, your experience and skill plus a healthy spidey sense will keep you safe but is no guarantee. We accept this every time we ride.
One person out of the lot of you seems to be willing to admit his faults without putting up a fit about who did what and did they have the right.
So many saints and preachers

[Ezzzzy1]

One person out of the lot of you seems to be willing to admit his faults without putting up a fit about who did what and did they have the right.
So many saints and preachers

Keep coming back with it!

Id like to know why you think anyone thinks they are a saint and are being preachers? And if I am part of your finger pointing, just go ahead and quote something thats been written and I will address it.


I think I can see now why so few visit here now.
To many saints and privileged punks

Just out of curiosity, whos the privileged punks that you are taking about?

[daemon]

Great point.

I read some postings on the motorcycle rider's FB page, and he admitted to knowing that in days prior to this "collision", this same driver had had a "swerving incident" with one of his friends and fellow riders.

My only question then, is this... If the rider knew the driver's (tendencies let's call them), to be hostile and otherwise show anti-motorcycle behavior and aggression.... WHY IN THE FUCK would he still have continued to do what he did, and tempt driver and provoke actions that he ALREADY KNEW WERE LIKELY??:
what gave you the idea that he knew who he was passing ?
Did it appear in the short(thanks to media) that he was stalking or searching for the driver.
He made a pass that many of us have in the past. Saints exempted. Not really aware of who it was..IMO.
He pulled a move too close for passing, but I have pulled many of these in the past without incident.
But at times groups I have been included in or leading have had problems with drivers for our aggressive moved.
I have even had officers watch footage from one of my rides for evidence against a driver that was swerving into our lane to stop us or scare us.
The police could care less about all the infractions that he saw myself or others make in my video.
Nor did he ask for my license. As most of us know by now police care very little for small infractions that are not worth the excess paper work with little reward.
I haven't had a(knock on wood) speeding or other infraction ticket in 5 or 6 years.
Not because I'm innocent ��, just that I am aware and diligent

[daemon]

I really don't think I would do any good pointing fingers.
Just suffice it to say that someone needs to have all their eggs in their basket to even be allowed to enjoy the sport we share .
I'm not like Frank.I won't play your "I'm better than you"game.

Keep coming back with it!

Id like to know why you think anyone thinks they are a saint and are being preachers? And if I am part of your finger pointing, just go ahead and quote something thats been written and I will address it.



Just out of curiosity, whos the privileged punks that you are taking about?

[Ezzzzy1]

I haven't had a(knock on wood) speeding or other infraction ticket in 5 or 6 years.
Not because I'm innocent ��, just that I am aware and diligent



Do you want an award, perhaps for being a saint?


I really don't think I would do any good pointing fingers.
Just suffice it to say that someone needs to have all their eggs in their basket to even be allowed to enjoy the sport we share .
I'm not like Frank.I won't play your "I'm better than you"game.

All you would have to do to prove that I am playing a "Im better than you" game, is show me where it is that I am playing said game.

[~Barn~]

One person out of the lot of you seems to be willing to admit his faults without putting up a fit about who did what and did they have the right.
So many saints and preachers

You are true that Jeff post was self deprecating, and didn't pass any outward judgment, but doesn't necessarily mean he's absent a more pointed opinion on the situation. His diplomacy game is strong, no doubt.

But Mayo, if a lot of the rest of this feels like preaching or sermonizing, it's because there actually is a lesson that can be learned from. The problem is that it gets drowned (or if not drowned, at least diluted) by so much asinine commentary in threads like this one, that only draws attention to the driver's failures and none of the riders. Yeah, I get that poor biker was the nail and that the murderous car guy was the hammer, but what's wrong with some of us just pointing out the fact that they're both tools? [Ha! See what I did there?]

The car driver has everything this side of a lynching thrown at him -- nope, wait... Frank did call for a lynching -- but nothing to say of what the rider could have maybe done differently? I mean I get it, it's a public forum, and people who know (or read) CM, get it. But we are a freaking Motorcycle Club after all! It's our collective *job* to preach at each other about motorcycle related shit!

EJ's post may have been harsh, but he was right. My posts are not easily palatable, but they're true. But don't mistake us using the pulpit as our declaration of sainthood, it's not that. It's just that some of us here are playing checkers, while some of us here are playing chess.

[~Barn~]

what gave you the idea that he knew who he was passing ? Did it appear in the short(thanks to media) that he was stalking or searching for the driver. He made a pass that many of us have in the past. Saints exempted. Not really aware of who it was..IMO. <Snip...>

A valid point, he may not have known. But it's my gut feeling that he probably has familiarity with the area and the drivers in it. His personal social media posts seem to make us want to believe that.

[daemon]

You sir do not bait battles well. Perhaps a lesson from a prostitute at the bedroom door.

Do you want an award, perhaps for being a saint?



All you would have to do to prove that I am playing a "Im better than you" game, is show me where it is that I am playing said game.

[daemon]

A valid point, he may not have known. But it's my gut feeling that he probably has familiarity with the area and the drivers in it. His personal social media posts seem to make us want to believe that.

Perhaps... I'm not siding with anyone.
Just saying that we as a motorcyclist community don't always need to fight amongst ourselves to please the idiots that are watching and waiting to see where they find us weak

[Ezzzzy1]

You sir do not bait battles well. Perhaps a lesson from a prostitute at the bedroom door.

Im not trying to fight with you. But when I feel that I am being called out, I will play.

Im asking you straight up to answer for running you keys and you wont. If you are calling someone out and saying they are "saints" and "privileged" then back it up. Dont follow it up with "I wouldnt do any good" after making general comments.

If it was my attention that you wanted, you got it. Now what? You want to have a conversation or are you just going to keep telling us how "aware and diligent" you are?

And in case you missed it, being aware and diligent is really all anyone you are opposing is saying :lol:

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

CYCLE_MONKY - glad you cited an article which also included that the rider had an invalid license and got cited for an improper pass... Which has been the point all along. To pull a page out of your own book then:

The more I spend with your words the more I see that such a narrow field of problem identification can only result in one thing: Bi-partisanship. That means, no matter how angry you get, no matter how many capital letters you put in a response, no matter what you do, your perception only allows for one perspective, and by limiting yourself to only one perspective you perpetuate that which you abhore. Since you are then the cause and result of your own aggravation only you can end or worsen it.

It is sad that you so stubbornly cling to that very narrow perspective and block out our attempts at helping you alleviate your own suffering and maybe actually do some good by trying to find something good in this situation - like an educational opportunity.

You can bring a horse to water and you can beat it to death, but you can't make it drink. I guess the horse will die of thirst because it is too proud to drink.
Actually, that's not the point. The point is a car driver took the law into his own hands, and assaulted a rider with his car. All HUGE no-no's, and frowned upon extremely by the law. Any and ALL minor traffic infractions or paperwork infractions (which the car driver as surely didn't know about as the rider knowing the car driver's history - an absurd theory) give the car driver exactly ZERO right or legal authority to do what he did. And, since the DA is charging him for that, while ignoring all but the double yellow passes by the riders (certainly not charging him with "ATGATT violations!!!!" LOL), I believe that illustrates my point perfectly. ;) The only "perspective" I know is the truth, brutal as it is. Thank God the DA sees it that way as well and is prosecuting the a$$hole. Too often we are free and easy targets. If I had a myopic "perspective", why is the DA doing almost exactly what I said he should? Hmmm?

Again, did the rider commit a minor traffic infraction, and seem to be without proper paperwork as well? Certainly, and I've already mentioned that. Yawn. But again, it goes back to the car driver committing the serious criminal acts. And in the eyes of the law, that is what they're going to (rightly) focus on. With that video, and the "I don't care!" comment it should be a slam-dunk for the jury.

Here's what blows me away, the same people here that sometimes or routinely pass on double yellows, defnatelly routinely speed, sometimes not wear ATGATT, and might have questionable equipment (especially license plates) or paperwork, and could be considered by the caging public to ride recklessly, are trying to pin blame on the rider! Wow. He's guilty of what I mentioned, nothing more. I don't ride much with CSC-ers because the first ride I was on here in '03 resulted in all sorts of asshattery and 2 totalled bikes. I've seen other really stupid shit and refuse to do the group rides, except with a select group of "older" folk, some here, some not.

And don't worry Barn, I figure I can milk that for at LEAST another 10 years....probably until I drop dead (if I've even got 10 years left....).....but I still love ya man! LOLZ.... :)

[daemon]

Wow.
Okay. Let's play
I by and large have not had the best of record as a motorcyclist.
My first incident was as I was rolling along someone that has their right hand turn signal on. Turned left in front of me.
I plowed through their front quarter panel and flew over the front of their vehicle to land on my back with a short bonk to my non helmeted head. Luck was on my side. I was able to continue on to work after the typical talk with the police and perpetrators.
She was uninsured. So began my misery.
She had recently been released from a mental institute and should have been under surveillance.
Even though witnesses were able to collaborate that I was in the right. Neither was ticketed.
I ended up later with a hernia that they would dispute who was at fault.
Insurance company ended up winning this one by giving me the minimal of what what they thought was justifiable.
I could have, should have fought for more.
Not everyone at everytime in their life is prepared for everything that happens in their life.
The best part of this is that after 7 weeks of being off of work while having my then ex-wife take care of me was forcing me out the door.(my fault). Different story
Thankfully a previous land lord was willing to allow me to move into a house I had rented before with as little as 8$ for a deposit.

You sir think that we that enjoy the sport should only enjoy the sport if we are fully able to envision all that can happen in every decision we may make. not all of us are magicians...i have many better stories to share. When we ever meet

Im not trying to fight with you. But when I feel that I am being called out, I will play.

Im asking you straight up to answer for running you keys and you wont. If you are calling someone out and saying they are "saints" and "privileged" then back it up. Dont follow it up with "I wouldnt do any good" after making general comments.

If it was my attention that you wanted, you got it. Now what? You want to have a conversation or are you just going to keep telling us how "aware and diligent" you are?

And in case you missed it, being aware and diligent is really all anyone you are opposing is saying :lol:

[~Barn~]

I still love you too, Frank. =)

[daemon]

I still love you too, Frank. =)

Favoritism.
The point is we don't know need to know each other, like each other, agree with each other or believe we are right.
We as a community need to band together so that those who would tear us apart don't gain ground.
No, I'm not speaking as a conspiracy theorist, just someone that knows they are watching.... LOL

[The Black Knight]

I limit myself to matters of MotoGP anymore but this one I'll throw my .02 cents on.

Way I see it from wall that's been provided, is that both are in the wrong. The driver should be charged as such. Swerving at someone on a motorcycle is dangerous and potentially fatal. Showing his lack of composure is now going to cost him his freedom.

The motorcyclist, should not have been passing on a double yellow. He decided to pull an ill conceived pass against a driver that he had no possibly way of calculating him swerving at him.

With regards to the rider and his passenger being equipped with minimal riding gear, that's really neither here nor there. Certainly it didn't help when they went down. However, having full racing gear they both I'm sure would have sustained some form of injury. Maybe not to the extent they have but some bumps and bruises for sure. In terms of him and her going down, surely they both could have been wearing more gear. However, I'm sure they didn't expect to go down either on their weekend ride.

Passing on a double yellow around people in cars only provokes those who have an itch to scratch with bikers.

Should the rider have passed on a double yellow?? No, he was wrong. Should the cager swerved at the rider?? No, he was incredibly in the wrong.

Hopefully the rider and his passenger heal up well. Maybe in the future he will think about pulling such a pass on someone on a double yellow. Hopefully for the driver he gets the book thrown at him. Luckily he didn't kill anyone and that's the extent of it.

I honestly don't see why everyone on here is fighting about this. It happens everyday on the roads we ride. Ride carefully and do your best to be diligent and self aware. Myself, I've seen to many of these kinds of incidents in the past and probably a reason why I only ride at the track now. The harsh reality is, people don't care and it's not just in their attitudes towards motorcyclists. It's towards their fellow man and it's not going to get better any time soon. People will continue to abuse each other from now until time ends. All we can hope for is that our laws and justice system do their work and punish those that should be held accountable.

Either way, stop the fighting and remember sh*t happens and will continue to happen.

[daemon]

Either way, stop the fighting and remember sh*t happens and will continue to happen.

Thank you Sir Knight.
Well thought, well played

[Bueller]

Oh please don't stop arguing. This is very entertaining :lol:

[bulldog]

I think I can see now why so few visit here now.
To many saints and privileged punks +1

[Ezzzzy1]

Wow.
Okay. Let's play
I by and large have not had the best of record as a motorcyclist.
My first incident was as I was rolling along someone that has their right hand turn signal on. Turned left in front of me.
I plowed through their front quarter panel and flew over the front of their vehicle to land on my back with a short bonk to my non helmeted head. Luck was on my side. I was able to continue on to work after the typical talk with the police and perpetrators.
She was uninsured. So began my misery.
She had recently been released from a mental institute and should have been under surveillance.
Even though witnesses were able to collaborate that I was in the right. Neither was ticketed.
I ended up later with a hernia that they would dispute who was at fault.
Insurance company ended up winning this one by giving me the minimal of what what they thought was justifiable.
I could have, should have fought for more.
Not everyone at everytime in their life is prepared for everything that happens in their life.
The best part of this is that after 7 weeks of being off of work while having my then ex-wife take care of me was forcing me out the door.(my fault). Different story
Thankfully a previous land lord was willing to allow me to move into a house I had rented before with as little as 8$ for a deposit.

You sir think that we that enjoy the sport should only enjoy the sport if we are fully able to envision all that can happen in every decision we may make. not all of us are magicians...i have many better stories to share. When we ever meet

Bummer story man but there is no way I think that to enjoy the sport someone needs to fully envision all that can happen etc, and even more that because I recognize the punk rider could have done a least a few things to aid in his own happiness that somehow I am entitled and a saint.

At what point does one take responsibility for their own life? Their own decisions? There is nothing in life that simply "happens" to people without their input and their decisions effecting it. Its a completely different level of thinking but the minute anyone realizes that they are 100% in control and responsible for their own life the world is a different place.

Thank god for gofundme because in this situation its going to give an irresponsible, drivers licenses revoked, no endorsement having, speeding, illegally passing, little gear wearing, non medically insured, no motorcycle insurance having rider that was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, a shot at getting back on his feet.

Heaven for bid the rider thought to himself "I really shouldnt be riding, maybe I should really take it easy on this thing".

[Spooph]

Actually, that's not the point. The point is a car driver took the law into his own hands, and assaulted a rider with his car. All HUGE no-no's, and frowned upon extremely by the law. Any and ALL minor traffic infractions or paperwork infractions (which the car driver as surely didn't know about as the rider knowing the car driver's history - an absurd theory) give the car driver exactly ZERO right or legal authority to do what he did. And, since the DA is charging him for that, while ignoring all but the double yellow passes by the riders (certainly not charging him with "ATGATT violations!!!!"
...




Lol, I tried. Never have I disagreed with this point. Much thanks for so diligently focusing on the hammer and yet again reiterating that it struck the nail so that your ego can be justified for the war path that it's on. At least, that's the only explanation I can see. Let's all take away from this then that car drivers suck, they are our enemies, we should hate them, and enjoy seeing them suffer when they hurt us, as there is nothing we can learn from this situation to help us mitigate these situations in our own rides in the future. We are powerless motorcycle riders who can only spout revenge and let the law handle this situation. /sarcam

[mdub]

Bummer story man but there is no way I think that to enjoy the sport someone needs to fully envision all that can happen etc, and even more that because I recognize the punk rider could have done a least a few things to aid in his own happiness that somehow I am entitled and a saint.

At what point does one take responsibility for their own life? Their own decisions? There is nothing in life that simply "happens" to people without their input and their decisions effecting it. Its a completely different level of thinking but the minute anyone realizes that they are 100% in control and responsible for their own life the world is a different place.

Thank god for gofundme because in this situation its going to give an irresponsible, drivers licenses revoked, no endorsement having, speeding, illegally passing, little gear wearing, non medically insured, no motorcycle insurance having rider that was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, a shot at getting back on his feet.

Heaven for bid the rider thought to himself "I really shouldnt be riding, maybe I should really take it easy on this thing".


well put Edward. when I got back into riding sports bike 12years ago. Wife said you better have a lot of insurance, you have 2 lil girls, at the time 2 and 6. so I got a supplemental accidental death policy via work. thank goodness I am fortunate to have such an employer. so if I do die wife wont have to worry about the house and have a lil extra .

ever time I throw a leg over my bike I say to myself, be VERY cautious out there. it has cross my mind to sell my bike several times. 2 wheels are dangerous, especially for a person like me. maybe I just want to see my girls grow up and for me to be ambulatory.....

[Kim-n-Dean]

God damn!!! EVERYTHING goes to shit on this site!!!!

You are 40 times more likely to die on your bike than in a car. If that stat is correct, it scares the shit out of me knowing I got Kim into riding. I've talked about selling the bikes and she says, "too bad, you screwed up and got me riding and I love it!!"

It really has gotten worse in the last couple of years. Every time I get on the bike, at least four people try to kill me. It used to be only two.

...and, we've had cars run us off the road on purpose while simply riding down C-470 at the speed limit. It's so infuriating I want to pull out my 1911 and start firing!!! Some dumb ass Asian bitch pulled out in front of me and ran me into a curb and then she told me I could have stopped in time. Cost me $700 to fix the door on her Tahoe. It had a bunch of dents that perfectly matched the carbon fiber knuckles on my gloves. The cops said they didn't blame me for going off on her door and she got a ticket.

When I sent her husband the check, I included a note saying, "this only cost me $700. Imagine what it's going to cost you when she kills someone!!"

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I’m going to make this as simple as I can, so that perhaps those that haven’t figured this out yet can finally understand it.

Firstly, it amusing to me that the same exact information posted on a far more mature forum (the BMW forum), gets much more mature replies, far more in line with what the DA in Texas is going to do. People there have pointed out that, yes, the guy should have his paperwork all in order. Yes, the lack of gear contributed to some extent to the injuries received. How much or how little it contributed surely can’t be estimated by anyone on their high horse here, regardless of which one in the stable they’re riding at this particular time. That is for the Dr.’s and accident scene construction folks. I can tell you a fully ATGATT’d friend of mine was racing recently when another rider took out his front wheel and made him crash, and he still ground his ankle pretty badly on the pavement. So, anyone that thinks they know “exactly” how much damage the lack of ATGATT caused is, well, riding a high horse indeed. But, this IS Colorado, so they’re riding their high horse while high themselves. I guess I expect childish replies here, but maybe not to this extent. Especially from people who, as I pointed out, certainly rode in questionable fashion with questionable legality in regards to documentation, insurance, equipment, and how much money they had saved(!!!), as absolutely absurd as that statement was. For the record, I have passed on double yellows. Sped. Had a revoked license that didn’t stop me. I was in violation of the ATGATT laws, dammit! I deserve to be deliberately hit by a guy in a car because of these past transgressions when I was as old as the “privileged punk” kids here, dammit! Oh, and we should all cross 3 lanes of traffic in our cars in order to paste any jaywalkers because, dammit, they broke the law! They were “complete pieces of shit”, and deserve to die! Children, children…..

Ok, so, for the second point, I’m also going to break it down in nice easy pieces so that the children can perhaps understand this next bit, because this is the really important one:
There are basically 2 variables to this equation:
The Rider (regardless of who he was)
The Car Driver (regardless of who he was)

Scenario 1:
An off duty cop (or paramedic, or firefighter, or surgeon, or active duty veteran) gets called in to the scene of an unfolding emergency. He’s rushing to get to work to save a life or 2. He doesn’t have time to sit behind Mr. Crum. So, he executes a safe pass (clear line of sight, speed safe for the vehicle and conditions). Mr. Crum, enraged that a motorcyclist DARES to pass him on HIS road in what HE considers is a dangerous fashion, hits the rider, permanently crippling him. The rider, if he’d been stooped by a duly appointed officer of the law, would NOT have been issued any ticket, and instead would have been given an escort.

Scenario 2:
A Father gets called to the emergency room of the local hospital because his little daughter was hit by a car in the street (She’s a total piece of shit, no ATGATT and jaywalking!!!). He’s rushing to get to the hospital to say goodbye to her before she dies. He doesn’t have time to sit behind Mr. Crum. So, he executes a safe pass (clear line of sight, speed safe for the vehicle and conditions). Mr. Crum, enraged that a motorcyclist DARES to pass him on HIS road in what HE considers is a dangerous fashion, hits the rider, permanently crippling him. The rider, if he’d been stopped by a duly appointed officer of the law, would NOT have been issued any ticket, and instead would have been given an escort.

Scenario 3:
An off duty cop (or paramedic, or firefighter, or surgeon, or active duty veteran) gets called in to the scene of an unfolding emergency. He’s rushing to get to work to save a life or 2. He doesn’t have time to sit behind a motorist. So, he executes a safe pass (clear line of sight, speed safe for the vehicle and conditions). The motorist, shakes his head, doesn’t do anything stupid by taking the law into his own hands and assaulting him with his vehicle, and drives on. The rider gets where he needs to be without incident, and saves a life or 2. The rider, if he’d been stopped by a duly appointed officer of the law, would NOT have been issued any ticket, and instead would have been given an escort.

Scenario 4:
A Father gets called to the emergency room of the local hospital because his little daughter was hit by a car in the street (She’s a total piece of shit, no ATGATT and jaywalking!!!). He’s rushing to get to the hospital to say goodbye to her before she dies. He doesn’t have time to sit behind a motorist. So, he executes a safe pass (clear line of sight, speed safe for the vehicle and conditions). The motorist, shakes his head, doesn’t do anything stupid by taking the law into his own hands and assaulting him with his vehicle, and drives on. The rider gets where he needs to be without incident and says goodbye to his daughter. The rider, if he’d been stopped by a duly appointed officer of the law, would NOT have been issued any ticket, and instead would have been given an escort.

So, it should be clear then even to the simplest of you, that the variable that 100% CAUSED that accident was the car driver, Mr. Crum, and that’s EXACTLY why the DA is going after him. Crum would have hit ANY rider passing him. So who the f#ck are any of you to go after the rider for making a couple simple mistakes that YOU have already made or are still making? Who the f#ck are any of you to go after the riders children who, regardless of the minor traffic infractions of the Father, are 100% innocent and now in a world of shit financially? “Saints and privileged punks” indeed, very apt…..

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Let's all take away from this then that car drivers suck, they are our enemies, we should hate them, and enjoy seeing them suffer when they hurt us, as there is nothing we can learn from this situation to help us mitigate these situations in our own rides in the future. We are powerless motorcycle riders who can only spout revenge and let the law handle this situation. /sarcam
LOLZ Well, if that's your takeaway, so be it. :) I won't spoon feed it to ya. In the end, spoon feeding us only teaches us the shape of the spoon. ;) I still love ya though!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

God damn!!! EVERYTHING goes to shit on this site!!!!
You should join the BMW site, they actually have adults and adult discussions there..... :)

[Spooph]

I hope you no longer wonder why I don't ride with you. I won't ride with a would-be victim.

[daemon]

“Saints and privileged punks” indeed, very apt…..

I like you too Frank... LOL

[daemon]

At what point does one take responsibility for their own life? really take it easy on this thing".

You forget my friend how sue happy people are now days.
It's no longer the age of enlightenment, but the age of entitlement.

If there was a go fund me back when I needed it. I would have used it and laid blame on the people responsible.

The rider may not be the posh lovely prepared rider we all hope for, but he certainly will not receive my judgment.
Everything he's done. I have done as well

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I hope you no longer wonder why I don't ride with you. I won't ride with a would-be victim.
Bwahahaha! "Would-be victim"? SRSLY, are you shitting me? Man, that's funny. I've always copped guilty to any and all traffic infractions that I actually did, which was almost every time I've been stopped. Geez, let's see:
1. "M" endorsement since '83.
2. Fully insured since '83.
3. About 250,000 miles and very few incidents at all, all of them minor.
4. Hardly ever get any traffic tickets at all.
5. ALWAYS wear proper gear.
6. Don't ride like a squid.
7. NEVER rode like the kids these days doing wheelies and weaving thru traffic, even when I was a kid. (Had too many friends who did stupid crap and wrecked).
8. Ride safely, if at an, ah, elevated, pace sometimes.
9. Safe bike, well-maintained, with no sketchy parts or equipment violations.

Geez, I thought it was because I would have to unplug 3 of my 4 plug wires so you could keep me in sight. :)

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

...game.....set....match. ;) Guess the kiddies got off the short bus and went home.

[daemon]

:drink::banghead:

[Ezzzzy1]

I love how you keep proclaiming your victories CM :lol: I WIN I WIN

Its even more amusing how you waste half you day writing novels on here about hypothetical mumbo jumbo that you think proves some point about how the motorcyclest that got hit was somehow justified in 1 being a dumbass and 2 riding like one.

[Ezzzzy1]

You forget my friend how sue happy people are now days.
It's no longer the age of enlightenment, but the age of entitlement.

If there was a go fund me back when I needed it. I would have used it and laid blame on the people responsible.

The rider may not be the posh lovely prepared rider we all hope for, but he certainly will not receive my judgment.
Everything he's done. I have done as well

Everything? You have ridden without your endorsement? Without insurance? Without gear? NICE!

Id love to see the lawsuit from a guy that wasnt even legal to be driving anything let alone a motorcycle that was passing illegally while speeding. :lol:

To add to my point, if he was legal, had his license even while breaking the passing and speed laws he may have had a leg to get all sue happy on and being the type of guy he probably would have instead of realizing that his dumb ass was in the wrong.

[Ezzzzy1]

And CM, head on over to any of the AUTO forums ie mustang, corvette, GTR etc... They will eat you alive with your narrow minded bubble

I suppose im in the minority on a motorcycle forum, calling the motorcycle rider out but EVERYWHERE else they are tearing the rider a new asshole.

[daemon]

Everything? You have ridden without your endorsement? Without insurance? Without gear? NICE!
.
Yes, yes and yes.
But I grew up and learned how to limit being judgmental.

[~Barn~]

Forums on forums on forums... Forget all that. We all just need play a cash Poker game together sometime! :yes:
:drink:

Connect4? Anything!?

What's your game CM? I'm guessing you're an Othello enthusiast. (?)

[daemon]

Can I bring my chess board and zombie cards

[Ezzzzy1]

Yes, yes and yes.
But I grew up and learned how to limit being judgmental.

Well how about this... Drop your insurance, ditch the gear and get your license revoked. If you dont want to do that then we agree, its that simple. :lol:

[~Barn~]

:googles zombie cards:

[daemon]

Just regular deck cards with zombies on them

[daemon]

Well how about this... Drop your insurance, ditch the gear and get your license revoked. If you dont want to do that then we agree, its that simple. :lol:

I would have to start by ridding the world of myself for agreeing with you

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

And CM, head on over to any of the AUTO forums ie mustang, corvette, GTR etc... They will eat you alive with your narrow minded bubble

I suppose im in the minority on a motorcycle forum, calling the motorcycle rider out but EVERYWHERE else they are tearing the rider a new asshole.
It doesn't matter what the OTHER morons "tearing the guy a new asshole" on any car (or other) forum say, the DA, who knows better than the rest of us, is charging the car driver with 2 counts of assault with a deadly weapon, and the rider gets a minor traffic ticket. Exactly my attitude towards the whole thing, what I predicted, and exactly the opposite of yours. As far as suing him, you obviously don't know anything about lawsuits either there genius. If a person can get millions of dollars for spilling their OWN coffee in their crotch, are you retarded enough to think that a blatant intent to kill or severely injure 2 people, one of them a FEMALE no less, will not be significantly compensated financially by the jury??? SRSLY?

So, I have YET so see anyone post anything even remotely intelligent trying to counter those 4 scenarios. If you (or anyone else here) can't even understand the vast difference between a guy making a pass on a double yellow and a guy assaulting him with his car, do us all a favor, if you're not going to step in front of a speeding train, at least never vote again or be a member of a jury.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I love how you keep proclaiming your victories CM :lol: I WIN I WIN

Its even more amusing how you waste half you day writing novels on here about hypothetical mumbo jumbo that you think proves some point about how the motorcyclest that got hit was somehow justified in 1 being a dumbass and 2 riding like one.
Well there Corky, it might take YOU 1/2 a day to write that, but for me it was maybe 10 minutes. All yet another example on how you have about zero reading comprehension. I clearly stated the rider should get a ticket. He made a pass on a DY, so that makes him, in your opinion a dumbass? Wow, then YOU, and EVERYONE here is a dumbass. I never said anything about "justification" except that Crum was certainly NOT justified to take the law into his own hands and deliberately hit the guy. You really can't understand the serious nature of that, can you? Well, glad the DA can. If that's how your "Generation Entitled" thinks now, the world is well and truly f#cked....

[#1Townie]

Just dropping in to say hello.

[rybo]

So, I've been lurking about and I was really hopeful that this thread was going to go somewhere valuable -

Defensive riding techniques, always planning to have an escape route, scene awareness etc.

Sadly what's happened is that we've devolved to name calling, claiming victory in an internet forum regarding a situation that happened 1000 miles away and for which we have limited information. It is entirely possible that there was an altercation between the rider and the driver before this film starts - for SURE that doesn't justify the driver's actions, but we don't have all of the information here.

sincerely

bummed in SLC

[daemon]

http://youtu.be/qzYyD-TJJfI

[Kim-n-Dean]

http://youtu.be/qzYyD-TJJfIDamn!! I don't even know where to start on what a complete piece of shit and a total moron this guy is!! Wasp sting, spider bite, it's all infected now (yet there's nothing there), found the spider in the tub later that night (the spider must have stood up and said, "hey, I'm the guy who bit you earlier today"). What a joke. He doesn't even lie very well. He practically admits that he hit the biker on purpose. A spider bit me and I thought the biker was a "turd" doing something wrong. Hopefully his past history will bury this fucktard when he gets in front of a judge. Although, our courts are pretty fucked up and he'll probably walk. Hopefully, Bubba will give him some ass time before his court appearance!!

[Nolan]

Just dropping in to say hello.

Hi!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

So, I've been lurking about and I was really hopeful that this thread was going to go somewhere valuable -

Defensive riding techniques, always planning to have an escape route, scene awareness etc.

Sadly what's happened is that we've devolved to name calling, claiming victory in an internet forum regarding a situation that happened 1000 miles away and for which we have limited information. It is entirely possible that there was an altercation between the rider and the driver before this film starts - for SURE that doesn't justify the driver's actions, but we don't have all of the information here.

sincerely

bummed in SLC
With these kids? Surely you jest!

The rider has stated he never saw the guy before. Crum even said he never saw them before, only mistook them for others simply because they road motorcycles. Also, the longer video, shows no previous connection.

On that road, at that time, there was no escape route, except just ride off into the grass.

The guy swerved into his lane pretty violently, maybe if he hadn't had a passenger he could have swerved more, but it happened so fast I doubt it.

Nothing could justify Crum's actions.

SHOULD the guy and girl have been wearing gear? Yup. How much or little that affected anything we'll never know. Plenty of people I know still got rashed wearing gear.

Should he have been 100% properly licensed? Yup, mentioned that already.

Should he have passed on a DY? Legally, no. Practically, I saw no reason not to. I probably would have too. So give me a ticket, and him one too. Mentioned that already.

Did Crum intentionally assault the 2 riders with a deadly weapon, injuring them? ABSOLUTELY, and he needs to go to prison for it. Guess the Corky's of the world can't grasp that.

[rybo]

With these kids? Surely you jest!

The rider has stated he never saw the guy before. Crum even said he never saw them before, only mistook them for others simply because they road motorcycles. Also, the longer video, shows no previous connection.

On that road, at that time, there was no escape route, except just ride off into the grass.

The guy swerved into his lane pretty violently, maybe if he hadn't had a passenger he could have swerved more, but it happened so fast I doubt it.

Nothing could justify Crum's actions.

SHOULD the guy and girl have been wearing gear? Yup. How much or little that affected anything we'll never know. Plenty of people I know still got rashed wearing gear.

Should he have been 100% properly licensed? Yup, mentioned that already.

Should he have passed on a DY? Legally, no. Practically, I saw no reason not to. I probably would have too. So give me a ticket, and him one too. Mentioned that already.

Did Crum intentionally assault the 2 riders with a deadly weapon, injuring them? ABSOLUTELY, and he needs to go to prison for it. Guess the Corky's of the world can't grasp that.

Frank - in my opinion this is a great post right up until you insult anyone who doesn't agree with you by calling them names. What purpose does that serve? It's really possible to hear someone else's argument and not agree with it. It doesn't make them "stupid" or somehow "less".

I agree with everything else you've said - gear should be worn, greater care needs to be exercised when riding with a passenger and this is vehicular assault.

[Ezzzzy1]

Frank thinks he and the prosecutor are buddies now because they agree and Frank also thinks that no one else on here agrees with whats happening to the driver of the car. Hes arguing because there are other people looking at the different aspects of what happened instead of just the Nazi car driver who Frank wants to see die a slow painful death.

The fact of the matter is the process will deal with the driver of the car. There hasnt been a single disagreement on this thread about what should happen to the driver but Frank still feels the need to argue his points.

Frank! Everyone agrees that the driver is a piece of shit and deserves to go to jail. All anyone else is saying is that the motorcycle rider sucks at life as well and could have kept himself out of this situation with a number of decisions. You are soo wrapped up in what the driver did that there is no way you can even begin to see where the motorcyclist contributed to his own misery.

Either way. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see what should be done about the driver and his actions. Keep arguing and keep thinking that anyone saying anything about the other aspects of this accident is arguing with you.

Im out.

[Spooph]

Just dropping in to say hello.

:spit:A class act!

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

Frank - in my opinion this is a great post right up until you insult anyone who doesn't agree with you by calling them names. What purpose does that serve? It's really possible to hear someone else's argument and not agree with it. It doesn't make them "stupid" or somehow "less".

I agree with everything else you've said - gear should be worn, greater care needs to be exercised when riding with a passenger and this is vehicular assault.
Guess so, I just took offense to one of the local Cork.....er, folks calling the rider "a total piece of shit" for not measuring up to the high standards of one of the privi....er, folks here. There was absolutely no call for that. What if the guy's broke and can't afford all the latest gear? Or afford to have as much spare cash in the bank as the sain....er, folk here? Who is anyone to play cop and say he shouldn't have passed on a DY and therefore deserves what he gets? ESPECIALY when I know damn well THEY have passed on a DY at least once. I certainly have. So, I just took exception to someone high-handed blaming the victim here. That's the same mentality that blames the rape victim for wearing a set of tight jeans..... Again, I think the DA's actions speak volumes, and he's doing exactly what needs doing. I'm just glad to see action on this. It could happen to any of us, for any reason, even if he made a 100% legal pass on a DOTTED line. And I would be just as angry if it had been Ezzzzzzzy1 and supportive TO him. We, as a society, cannot have people assaulting people with deadly weapons for minor traffic infractions. Period.

[#1Townie]

I think the driver should be a real wakeup call to everyone that rides. Honestly. Like I said about lane splitting you have no idea what kind of day/week/month/year/life that person in the car is having.

Not to justify anyone's actions just saying that you never know what minor action might trigger them to just explode.

No one but yourself is in charge of your safety. So be safe. Don't be in a rush. Enjoy life.

Frank simmer down guy.

[daemon]

Frank simmer down guy.
Oh no, now you went and done it... LOL

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I think the driver should be a real wakeup call to everyone that rides. Honestly. Like I said about lane splitting you have no idea what kind of day/week/month/year/life that person in the car is having.

Not to justify anyone's actions just saying that you never know what minor action might trigger them to just explode.

No one but yourself is in charge of your safety. So be safe. Don't be in a rush. Enjoy life.

Frank simmer down guy.
Hey man, don't make me explode now! :)

[#1Townie]

Hey man, don't make me explode now! :)

We can cuddle. Would that help?

[mdub]

.....hmmm name calling??? We are all thick skin here.. We are all tough sports bike guys..

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

We can cuddle. Would that help?
....ok, only as long as I'm the big spoon.... :)

[#1Townie]

....ok, only as long as I'm the big spoon.... :)

for sure!

[mdub]

.....hmmm name calling??? We are all thick skin here.. We are all tough sports bike guys..