Kimbo Slice dead

[Ezzzzy1]

Not entirely surprised. RIP

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/16009900/kimbo-slice-dies-age-42

[~Barn~]

My link below is not Kimbo related, but rest in peace to a guy who "earned it" as much as anybody.

Interesting news that gives you just that much more insight as to how twisted the UFC is willing to be.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNsbQ6gv7U

[bulldog]

I woke up and heard this news. As a big fan of him as a fighter and a person, it truly is sad he passed at such a young age. RIP Dhafir :cry:

It will be interesting to see why he died because I had heard no issues with him in the past, so this is surprising to me.



My link below is not Kimbo related, but rest in peace to a guy who "earned it" as much as anybody.

Interesting news that gives you just that much more insight as to how twisted the UFC is willing to be.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNsbQ6gv7U

I am interested to see what Ariel says, so I’ll be listening to this today…thanks for the link!

I’ve heard of the issue so to discuss it, I am amazed at how UFC is now operating and the retaliation that they do. Taking away Ariel’s UFC press credentials and banning him for life over covering a story is BS. UFC is trying to dictate what the media says and this is another example of how far they will go if you cross them. I’ve given Ariel respect over the last year for not becoming a UFC media “puppet“ and sticking with the facts of the stories, but they are making it hard on the guy and trying to ruin him. I hope he is able to pull through this and continue to be one of the most popular MMA media personalities.


EDIT: Looks like my boy Schaub has Ariel's back....sent out this tweet
Follow

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/733908328515014656/xI15dbGg_bigger.jpgBrendan SchaubVerified account (https://twitter.com/BrendanSchaub)‏@BrendanSchaub (https://twitter.com/BrendanSchaub) Fox has zero control who comes on our show. We would love to have @arielhelwani (https://twitter.com/arielhelwani) open door


On that note though……Broc vs Hunt!!!!! :rock: We can discuss this too if anyone is interested!!!!!

[Captain Obvious]

Sad news, I assume you have seen the news updates on the story?

[bulldog]

Sad news, I assume you have seen the news updates on the story? No, there is new info? Last I heard the medical examiner said that his death was not suspicious so so there was no need for toxicology tests. http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/07/kimbo-slice-medical-examiner-autopsy/

So the people who right away assumed drugs or steroids were wrong (must have been judging a book by it's cover. lol)! Actually from everyone I know that hung out with Kimbo, he did not do drugs and as far as we knew not even drank or smoked. So far it appears to be a un-diagnosed heart problem that could happen to anyone!

[Captain Obvious]

Seeing articles popup saying "his heart just stopped"....

Just scary that if no drugs, he wasn't old and was in good shape (cardio clearly not his forte based on the DaDa fight), but that his heart could just stop.

Last I saw was "undisclosed reasons" which lets everyone guess anything, vs "heart failure" which seems the new cause.

[bulldog]

Seeing articles popup saying "his heart just stopped"....

Just scary that if no drugs, he wasn't old and was in good shape (cardio clearly not his forte based on the DaDa fight), but that his heart could just stop.

Last I saw was "undisclosed reasons" which lets everyone guess anything, vs "heart failure" which seems the new cause.

I have a buddy that was pretty close to Kimbo who has been talking to Kimbo’s best friend. He stated there was no warnings or signs and Kimbo didn’t have any previously known heart issues, but it appears he had a underlining heart issue that was not known and this is why he died. It could be just bad genetics that could happen to anyone; my wife is a ICU nurse and you would be surprised at how many “healthy” people can have an issue they did not know about and suddenly die.

For sure Kimbo didn’t do drugs so it was not that…for sure the medical examiner would have done the autopsy if he saw any sign of drug use.

As for his cardio, it looked bad in a 3 round fight, but that is way harder than people think …..I work out five days a week and doubt I could do 3, 5 minute rounds to save my life….much less while getting punched by a 265lb man! Then granted he was 42 years old and solid muscle, I bet his cardio was in better shape than 95% of people his age.

[#1Townie]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2016/3/21/11279344/kimbo-slice-ken-shamrock-both-test-positive-for-steroids-at-bellator



http://m.smh.com.au/national/young-men-dying-from-heart-disease-linked-to-steroid-use-20140226-33ije.html

[bulldog]

I know you want to start a heated debate bro, but damn the guy died so lets at least try to be cool. He really was a good guy that had a wife and six kids and I've never heard anyone say a bad thing about him.....

I do see your point...it could have been steroids, but it could also have been other things too: we see hundreds of pro athletes and bodybuilders that are ok that were also caught.

[#1Townie]

not trying to start a debate. just a maybe. I'm not a doctor. idk. just shared some links with some knowledge.

[bulldog]

So Kimbo did die of heart problems and on June 3rd found out he needed a heart transplant (same day he went into hospital), but obviously he did not get one in time.
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/16028501/kimbo-slice-had-awaiting-heart-transplant

I am sure we will here more as it is found, but what concerns me is the mention of "high blood pressure".....aka...the silent killer (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=13118). They claim 1 in 4 adults have high blood pressure and are unaware! This is one of the leading causes of "healthy" people dying from heart problems. I found out I had high blood pressure last year (runs in my family) and I was amazed since I exercise and eat healthy, but doctors explained to me that even healthy people can get high blood pressure and then went on to tell me how it can kill you by stressing your heart. One pill a day has corrected the issue for me, so it is not a huge deal.

So if anyone gets anything out of Kimbo's death, it is to always check your blood pressure even if you see no signs.

I use this handy wireless blood pressure machine that syncs to my phone and even sends my doctor logs. https://ihealthlabs.com/blood-pressure-monitors/wireless-blood-pressure-monitor/

Here is a cool quiz that gives info on it Can You Escape the Silent Killer (http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HighBloodPressure/AboutHighBloodPressure/Can-You-Escape-the-Silent-Killer_UCM_303314_Article.jsp#.V1gc6_krKUm)?


And more info on the risks of it Why Blood Pressure Matters (http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HighBloodPressure/WhyBloodPressureMatters/Why-Blood-Pressure-Matters_UCM_002051_Article.jsp#.V1geSPkrKUk)

[bulldog]

not trying to start a debate. just a maybe. I'm not a doctor. idk. just shared some links with some knowledge.

Ok, well I hope I don’t regret replying, because sometimes I think you just like to get a rise out of me. Lol I guess that is what makes a forum a forum though…opinions :lol:

I knew at some point Kimbo’s steroid use would come into play, so guess it is a good discussion. I have seen these articles (usually small outlets: Sydney Morning Herald….never heard of them before), but really there has been no concrete proof over all the years that steroids do cause heart problems. When articles try to bring this up, they twist things around and forget to mention things like what else the person was on (fatburners, painpills, etc) that usually go hand in hand with pro athletes doing steroids. For example the article you posted clearly states “young men, in 20’s and early 30’s”. So right there is the kicker that most people would not get. A man taking steroids under the age of 35 is extremely harmful because the body is still producing testosterone naturally and your levels are still rising. So when a man in his early 20’s takes steroids then the body shuts down its production because it sees it gets it from an outside source. This leads these men to ruin their natural production and there body may never bounce back. Yet after 35, the male body is done in raising production levels, so the risks are way lower (especially if under a doctor’s care). Next, I see the article mentions a 28 year old they tested who had liver damage; this is a sign of using oral steroids (very hard on liver), but these pro athletes have money so they hire doctors to do this for them and I’ve never heard of a doctor giving out oral steroids (always injections that have no bearing on the liver/kidney). That brings me to my next point….not all steroids are the same, so they are classifying them all in this study; guy says he went to a daily injection and that is usually HGH (human growth hormone) which has been proven to enlarge the heart (newer and not as much is known about it as testosterone). Again, testosterone vs steroids can also be a different thing…totally different solutions that cause different effects in the body.

Last, it is always the “abuse” you hear in these stories. Anyone can abuse anything though and things in excesses will cause problems…..hell you can die from drinking too much water or taking too many vitamins, so abusing steroids should not be a surprise if a few legal Tylenol would kill you if you abused it too.

Yet I still wonder how pro bodybuilders have stacked up to 7 different types of steroids to get where they are (no testing in pro bodybuilding and no point in competing unless on stuff) and are still alive. For example Mr Olympia, Chris Dickerson, is still alive and 76 years old. Franco Columbu, another Mr Olympia winner, is still alive at 74. Frank Zane just hit 73. Anyways these were some of the biggest abusers of steroids and one look at their bodies can tell you they used for a long time. Then if we get into the thousands (yes thousands) of pro athletes that are on steroids then I’d just think if it was this big a cause we would see pro’s dropping off from heart attacks left and right…yet it has not happened. Lance Armstrong is probably the most widely known to admit to steroid use and he is alive and still to be in great shape. I can google and see list of pro athletes that were caught for steroids that have had no heart issues, so it just makes me think the media hypes it more just to get stories out there http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-althletes-who-have-used-performance-enhancing-drugs

So I agree it can be a factor, but I believe if they saw severe signs of steroid abuse in Kimbo, the medical examiner would have commented on that as that makes for better news than a heart problem. Also the fact he was put on the donor list for a heart usually shows there was no abuse of the organ found. For example, if an alcoholic need a liver transplant from years of drinking, he/she will not be eligible for a transplant….won’t even be put on the list. It takes three years of proven sobriety to even be considered and by then most die waiting because even after the three years you go to bottom of list.

[laspariahs]

Ok, well I hope I don’t regret replying, because sometimes I think you just like to get a rise out of me. Lol I guess that is what makes a forum a forum though…opinions :lol:

I knew at some point Kimbo’s steroid use would come into play, so guess it is a good discussion. I have seen these articles (usually small outlets: Sydney Morning Herald….never heard of them before), but really there has been no concrete proof over all the years that steroids do cause heart problems. When articles try to bring this up, they twist things around and forget to mention things like what else the person was on (fatburners, painpills, etc) that usually go hand in hand with pro athletes doing steroids. For example the article you posted clearly states “young men, in 20’s and early 30’s”. So right there is the kicker that most people would not get. A man taking steroids under the age of 35 is extremely harmful because the body is still producing testosterone naturally and your levels are still rising. So when a man in his early 20’s takes steroids then the body shuts down its production because it sees it gets it from an outside source. This leads these men to ruin their natural production and there body may never bounce back. Yet after 35, the male body is done in raising production levels, so the risks are way lower (especially if under a doctor’s care). Next, I see the article mentions a 28 year old they tested who had liver damage; this is a sign of using oral steroids (very hard on liver), but these pro athletes have money so they hire doctors to do this for them and I’ve never heard of a doctor giving out oral steroids (always injections that have no bearing on the liver/kidney). That brings me to my next point….not all steroids are the same, so they are classifying them all in this study; guy says he went to a daily injection and that is usually HGH (human growth hormone) which has been proven to enlarge the heart (newer and not as much is known about it as testosterone). Again, testosterone vs steroids can also be a different thing…totally different solutions that cause different effects in the body.

Last, it is always the “abuse” you hear in these stories. Anyone can abuse anything though and things in excesses will cause problems…..hell you can die from drinking too much water or taking too many vitamins, so abusing steroids should not be a surprise if a few legal Tylenol would kill you if you abused it too.

Yet I still wonder how pro bodybuilders have stacked up to 7 different types of steroids to get where they are (no testing in pro bodybuilding and no point in competing unless on stuff) and are still alive. For example Mr Olympia, Chris Dickerson, is still alive and 76 years old. Franco Columbu, another Mr Olympia winner, is still alive at 74. Frank Zane just hit 73. Anyways these were some of the biggest abusers of steroids and one look at their bodies can tell you they used for a long time. Then if we get into the thousands (yes thousands) of pro athletes that are on steroids then I’d just think if it was this big a cause we would see pro’s dropping off from heart attacks left and right…yet it has not happened. Lance Armstrong is probably the most widely known to admit to steroid use and he is alive and still to be in great shape. I can google and see list of pro athletes that were caught for steroids that have had no heart issues, so it just makes me think the media hypes it more just to get stories out there http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-althletes-who-have-used-performance-enhancing-drugs

So I agree it can be a factor, but I believe if they saw severe signs of steroid abuse in Kimbo, the medical examiner would have commented on that as that makes for better news than a heart problem. Also the fact he was put on the donor list for a heart usually shows there was no abuse of the organ found. For example, if an alcoholic need a liver transplant from years of drinking, he/she will not be eligible for a transplant….won’t even be put on the list. It takes three years of proven sobriety to even be considered and by then most die waiting because even after the three years you go to bottom of list.

Cyclists don't use steroids for #1, they use other drugs for boosting hematocrit, and for recovery, steroids for a cyclist would be counter productive, #2, he almost died of testicular cancer, funny you left out this fact.

[bulldog]

Cyclists don't use steroids for #1, they use other drugs for boosting hematocrit, and for recovery, steroids for a cyclist would be counter productive, #2, he almost died of testicular cancer, funny you left out this fact. Ok, so should I change the word to "performance enhancing drugs".

And you are actually wrong man:

In the interview, broadcast on the Discovery Channel in the UK, Armstrong then admitted to taking performance-enhancing drugs Erythropoietin (EPO), testosterone, cortisone and human growth hormone as well as having blood transfusions.Jan 18, 2013
Here is the source: http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/21066354

And I am not saying it was not a factor, but it appears Kimbo had a underlying heart condition that was not known and this caused his death, Sure maybe the steroids he did worsened that, but highly doubtful he died from steroid use and not this heart condition.

And now you are a claiming testosterone causes cancer....again never been proven. If anything low testosterone causes cancer because estrogen rises......up to a 70% increase in getting cancer if overweight (aka have low testosterone like overweight men do)

Again my guess is high blood pressure was the culprit over the steroids. it is not called the Silent Killer for nothing :dunno:

[#1Townie]

Ok, well I hope I don’t regret replying, because sometimes I think you just like to get a rise out of me. Lol I guess that is what makes a forum a forum though…opinions :lol:

I knew at some point Kimbo’s steroid use would come into play, so guess it is a good discussion. I have seen these articles (usually small outlets: Sydney Morning Herald….never heard of them before), but really there has been no concrete proof over all the years that steroids do cause heart problems. When articles try to bring this up, they twist things around and forget to mention things like what else the person was on (fatburners, painpills, etc) that usually go hand in hand with pro athletes doing steroids. For example the article you posted clearly states “young men, in 20’s and early 30’s”. So right there is the kicker that most people would not get. A man taking steroids under the age of 35 is extremely harmful because the body is still producing testosterone naturally and your levels are still rising. So when a man in his early 20’s takes steroids then the body shuts down its production because it sees it gets it from an outside source. This leads these men to ruin their natural production and there body may never bounce back. Yet after 35, the male body is done in raising production levels, so the risks are way lower (especially if under a doctor’s care). Next, I see the article mentions a 28 year old they tested who had liver damage; this is a sign of using oral steroids (very hard on liver), but these pro athletes have money so they hire doctors to do this for them and I’ve never heard of a doctor giving out oral steroids (always injections that have no bearing on the liver/kidney). That brings me to my next point….not all steroids are the same, so they are classifying them all in this study; guy says he went to a daily injection and that is usually HGH (human growth hormone) which has been proven to enlarge the heart (newer and not as much is known about it as testosterone). Again, testosterone vs steroids can also be a different thing…totally different solutions that cause different effects in the body.

Last, it is always the “abuse” you hear in these stories. Anyone can abuse anything though and things in excesses will cause problems…..hell you can die from drinking too much water or taking too many vitamins, so abusing steroids should not be a surprise if a few legal Tylenol would kill you if you abused it too.

Yet I still wonder how pro bodybuilders have stacked up to 7 different types of steroids to get where they are (no testing in pro bodybuilding and no point in competing unless on stuff) and are still alive. For example Mr Olympia, Chris Dickerson, is still alive and 76 years old. Franco Columbu, another Mr Olympia winner, is still alive at 74. Frank Zane just hit 73. Anyways these were some of the biggest abusers of steroids and one look at their bodies can tell you they used for a long time. Then if we get into the thousands (yes thousands) of pro athletes that are on steroids then I’d just think if it was this big a cause we would see pro’s dropping off from heart attacks left and right…yet it has not happened. Lance Armstrong is probably the most widely known to admit to steroid use and he is alive and still to be in great shape. I can google and see list of pro athletes that were caught for steroids that have had no heart issues, so it just makes me think the media hypes it more just to get stories out there http://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-althletes-who-have-used-performance-enhancing-drugs

So I agree it can be a factor, but I believe if they saw severe signs of steroid abuse in Kimbo, the medical examiner would have commented on that as that makes for better news than a heart problem. Also the fact he was put on the donor list for a heart usually shows there was no abuse of the organ found. For example, if an alcoholic need a liver transplant from years of drinking, he/she will not be eligible for a transplant….won’t even be put on the list. It takes three years of proven sobriety to even be considered and by then most die waiting because even after the three years you go to bottom of list.

little early to be saying what the medical examination would or wouldn't say.

besides that I don't know. like I said I'm not a doctor . there seems to be some sort of evidence about steroid use being bad for your heart. so I mean he gets popped for steroids and then has heart problems at a young age. definitely something to look into.

I mean unless you enjoy the idea of sudden middle age death syndrome or something. but really is it that hard to believe that putting chemicals into your body to enhance it could have adverse affects?

[laspariahs]

Ok, so should I change the word to "performance enhancing drugs".

And you are actually wrong man:

In the interview, broadcast on the Discovery Channel in the UK, Armstrong then admitted to taking performance-enhancing drugs Erythropoietin (EPO), testosterone, cortisone and human growth hormone as well as having blood transfusions.Jan 18, 2013


And I am not saying it was not a factor, but it appears Kimbo had a underlying heart condition that was not known and this caused his death, Sure maybe the steroids he did worsened that, but highly doubtful he died from steroid use and not this heart condition.

And now you are a claiming testosterone causes cancer....again never been proven. If anything low testosterone causes cancer because estrogen rises......up to a 70% increase in getting cancer if overweight (aka have low testosterone like overweight men do)

Again my guess is high blood pressure was the culprit over the steriods.

Epo, is a hematocrit booster, developed for cancer patients, Testosterone is for recovery, Cortisone is used to remove saddlesores, the only steroid on this list, yes look it up, and hgh is for recovery and not a steroid. The only steroid he used, cortisone is used to remove saddlesores, doubtful he used enough to hurt his heart.

Again using steroids to increase muscle mass would be useless as it increases weight.


Here's a book for you to read: https://smile.amazon.com/Secret-Race-Inside-Cover-ups-Winning/dp/0345530411/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1465397673&sr=8-1


That book was also written by the nicest guy on the planet, and he also admitted to doping. He really is a nice guy, however nice people dope too.

[bulldog]

little early to be saying what the medical examination would or wouldn't say.

besides that I don't know. like I said I'm not a doctor . there seems to be some sort of evidence about steroid use being bad for your heart. so I mean he gets popped for steroids and then has heart problems at a young age. definitely something to look into.

I mean unless you enjoy the idea of sudden middle age death syndrome or something. but really is it that hard to believe that putting chemicals into your body to enhance it could have adverse affects?
It was in first line of link I posted....medical examiners do have to release a statement and TMZ put it out:

Kimbo Slice (http://www.tmz.com/person/kimbo-slice/)'s body will not be tested for things like steroids or drugs ... at least, not by the medical examiner's office which tells TMZ Sports there's nothing suspicious about Kimbo's death.

We asked if that meant the office believes his death is not suspicious and there's no need for toxicology tests -- to which the M.E. Chief told us, "No medical legal investigation, including toxicology is necessary.”

And then why is Shamrock ok? His levels were way higher and he has been caught many times.

[laspariahs]

It was in first line of link I posted....medical examiners do have to release a statement and TMZ put it out:

Kimbo Slice (http://www.tmz.com/person/kimbo-slice/)'s body will not be tested for things like steroids or drugs ... at least, not by the medical examiner's office which tells TMZ Sports there's nothing suspicious about Kimbo's death.

We asked if that meant the office believes his death is not suspicious and there's no need for toxicology tests -- to which the M.E. Chief told us, "No medical legal investigation, including toxicology is necessary.”

And then why is Shamrock ok? His levels were way higher and he has been caught many times.

So doping is ok if it doesn't hurt you physically? Man....

[bulldog]

I apologize if I don't read tmz links. also considering it takes 6-8 weeks for an autopsy to be released i will stick to why I don't read tmz.
No autopsy is being done though....medical examiner said no need for one. So that is why I'd assume there was no concern of his failed steroid test...or maybe they just don't care :dunno:


If anyone should be dead from it is Ken Shamrock....or WWE guys! :lol:


So doping is ok if it doesn't hurt you physically? Man....
Well depends on how it is done, what is used, and how it is monitored. There are men that do have low testosterone that do have to get injections weekly for medical reasons; health insurance covers it just like insulin injections. Studied have shows it greatly improves men's life as low testosterone can cause a lot of bad issues. These things just get bad names because people abuse it.

Here is a well documented person that has released how it changed their life http://ironandtweed.com/my-low-t-journey-one-year-on-trt/

[#1Townie]

It was in first line of link I posted....medical examiners do have to release a statement and TMZ put it out:

Kimbo Slice (http://www.tmz.com/person/kimbo-slice/)'s body will not be tested for things like steroids or drugs ... at least, not by the medical examiner's office which tells TMZ Sports there's nothing suspicious about Kimbo's death.

We asked if that meant the office believes his death is not suspicious and there's no need for toxicology tests -- to which the M.E. Chief told us, "No medical legal investigation, including toxicology is necessary.”

And then why is Shamrock ok? His levels were way higher and he has been caught many times.

damnit I didn't want delete my post!



I'm sorry I don't read tmz. considering it takes 6-8 weeks for an autopsy I will wait for that. probably won't say much. but who knows.

I didn't say it was the steroids. I just don't like the idea that we just drop dead for no reason. again I'm not a doctor. i also don't pretend to be.

as for shamrock.... okay.... why can some people smoke their entire lives and drink like a fish and never have a problem?

not everyone is the same and things affect us all differently. if living healthy was a sure fire way a long life wouldn't kimbo still be alive?

I am not trying to debate you bro. I'm not. i just posted links. maybe they are linked. maybe not. we dont know.

[#1Townie]

oh they aren't doing one? okay I guess it's just the sudden middle-aged death syndrome then. cool.

[bulldog]

oh they aren't doing one? okay I guess it's just the sudden middle-aged death syndrome then. cool. Again, he had a un- diagnosed heart issue.....I bet from years of high blood pressure.

Just look at this stat...healthy people do die suddenly more often that you think
About 1 of 3 U.S. adults—or about 70 million people—have high blood pressure. Only about half (52%) of these people have their high blood pressure under control. This common condition increases the risk for heart disease and stroke, 2 of the leading causes of death for Americans.

A article on how deaths for HBP is increasing http://news.heart.org/high-blood-pressure-causing-deaths-despite-drop-heart-disease-stroke-deaths/
Then this shows how HBP is higher in black people http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/57/3/379.full

[laspariahs]

Well depends on how it is done, what is used, and how it is monitored. There are men that do have low testosterone that do have to get injections weekly for medical reasons; health insurance covers it just like insulin injections. Studied have shows it greatly improves men's life as low testosterone can cause a lot of bad issues. These things just get bad names because people abuse it.

Here is a well documented person that has released how it changed their life http://ironandtweed.com/my-low-t-journey-one-year-on-trt/

I'm talking about doping in sports, not some dude with low testosterone that his doctor provides at that point it's medicine. All the crap that some cyclists use to dope themselves, are all used and developed as medicine, when used properly they are medications or medical techniques that have been bastardized as doping or Peds. You seem to be of the opinion that it's ok to dope ones self, solely for performance, as long as you don't see negative side effects.

[bulldog]

I'm talking about doping in sports, not some dude with low testosterone that his doctor provides at that point it's medicine. All the crap that some cyclists use to dope themselves, are all used and developed as medicine, when used properly they are medications or medical techniques that have been bastardized as doping or Peds. You seem to be of the opinion that it's ok to dope ones self, solely for performance, as long as you don't see negative side effects.
Kimbo's testosterone ranges were in legal levels for TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). So before the ban the "medicine" you state was legal...again too many people lied and abused it so they stopped TRT exceptions. So if we are still talking about Kimbo, he most likely was under a medical doctor....years of training tend to lower a pro athletes testosterone.

I never said it was ok, just that it is not as dangerous as some people think and does not appear this is what caused Kimbo's death. I mean why aren't more pro's dropping dead from it that were caught...like half of NBL????


P.S. Lance was using testosterone...same thing as they use in TRT medical treatment.....no difference. Plus doping in cycling tens to mean more the blood transfusions they do.

[#1Townie]

damnit thats twice. screw the mobile version of this.

so as asked. what caused his high blood pressure?

http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/steroids-and-blood-pressure/

[bulldog]

damnit thats twice. screw the mobile version of this.

so as asked. what caused his high blood pressure?

http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/steroids-and-blood-pressure/Yeah lets get our info from "Ironman magazine" and not the National Association of Heart like I posted that show the other reasons. :lol:

This is why I don't like debating with you....you have your mind made up and won't ever change....so frustrating.

[laspariahs]

Kimbo's testosterone ranges were in legal levels for TRT (testosterone replacement therapy). So before the ban the "medicine" you state was legal...again too many people lied and abused it so they stopped TRT exceptions. So if we are still talking about Kimbo, he most likely was under a medical doctor....years of training tend to lower a pro athletes testosterone.

I never said it was ok, just that it is not as dangerous as some people think and does not appear this is what caused Kimbo's death. I mean why aren't more pro's dropping dead from it that were caught...like half of NBL????


All the cyclists have team doctors as well, administering whatever crap they get/got. Doping is wrong period. Who cares if doping is why this guy died, I don't see why it matters so much to you. You don't seem to defend the fact he is or isn't a doper, in fact from what I can tell from what you have said you think he is a doper.

[bulldog]

All the cyclists have team doctors as well, administering whatever crap they get/got. Doping is wrong period. Who cares if doping is why this guy died, I don't see why it matters so much to you. You don't seem to defend the fact he is or isn't a doper, in fact from what I can tell from what you have said you think he is a doper. I am a big fan of Kimbo so I hate to see his name crapped on by people who want to assume things with no proof. Bottom line is he was known as a super good guy and I am sad he passed. I followed his career since the beginning and also saw all the good he did for poor kids. I also have had the pleasure of being friends that were close to Kimbo who says he was such a great guy.


And don't fool yourself man.....more than half of pro athletes are on stuff!

[#1Townie]

I mean why aren't more pro's dropping dead from it that were caught...like half of NBL????


.

well considering nothing is a guarantee you can't really say well this guy did them so it's perfectly safe. like I said before people drink and smoke their whole lives and nevee have an issue.

maybe this is just on the small scale. like every one in one thousand? even some medication has a chance of being extremely harmful in a small number of cases. I'm sure your wife would agree to this.

not everyone is the same and some things affect us differently. to just accept that we sometimes just drop dead because.... well.... we don't know? doesn't float with me.

maybe he was angry his life? maybe he was a closet cokehead? maybe god needed a new bouncer? if it was my loved one who just dropped dead I would want to know the exact reason he died.

[#1Townie]

I am a big fan of Kimbo so I hate to see his name crapped on by people who want to assume things with no proof. Bottom line is he was known as a super good guy and I am sad he passed. I followed his career since the beginning and also saw all the good he did for poor kids. I also have had the pleasure of being friends that were close to Kimbo who says he was such a great guy.


And don't fool yourself man.....more than half of pro athletes are on stuff!

i don't see anyone crapping on him. its just a discussion. you have a mysterious death. people see an unsolved answer and tend to try to figure it out.

simmer down guy.

[bulldog]

i don't see anyone crapping on him. its just a discussion. you have a mysterious death. people see an unsolved answer and tend to try to figure it out.

simmer down guy. Just hurt he died man...I really was this big a fan of his and to die suddenly at 42 sucks….especially with 6 kids After seeing him on Ultimate Fighter and numerous interviews with him I came to really like the guy. He was in process of doing some work with the Fighter and the Kid podcast that I was looking forward too. So just really hit me as it is scary to think a person can die suddenly like this.



Here is one of my favorite moments about Kimbo….when he thought my buddy Brendan was black (Brendan is a white guy) :lol:

http://youtu.be/-huwxNgLRp4?t=9m36s

[#1Townie]

Just hurt he died man...I really was this big a fan of his and to die suddenly at 42 sucks….especially with 6 kids After seeing him on Ultimate Fighter and numerous interviews with him I came to really like the guy. He was in process of doing some work with the Fighter and the Kid podcast that I was looking forward too. So just really hit me as it is scary to think a person can die suddenly like this.


you need hug! i KEEEEEED. the death of Paul Walker made me sad too. dont trip.

[bulldog]

you need hug! i KEEEEEED. the death of Paul Walker made me sad too. dont trip. That was a rough one too....again because he was so young and such a good guy!

[laspariahs]

I am a big fan of Kimbo so I hate to see his name crapped on by people who want to assume things with no proof. Bottom line is he was known as a super good guy and I am sad he passed. I followed his career since the beginning and also saw all the good he did for poor kids. I also have had the pleasure of being friends that were close to Kimbo who says he was such a great guy.


And don't fool yourself man.....more than half of pro athletes are on stuff!

Oh I don't think I'm the one fooling myself, of course I think tons of pro athletes are on dope, but that just means the sports aren't really sports anymore, just WWE style "entertainment" which I probably why I don't watch sports.

As for the rest, all I'll say is doping is wrong, doesn't matter how nice of a guy he was.

[bulldog]

Oh I don't think I'm the one fooling myself, of course I think tons of pro athletes are on dope, but that just means the sports aren't really sports anymore, just WWE style "entertainment" which I probably why I don't watch sports.

As for the rest, all I'll say is doping is wrong, doesn't matter how nice of a guy he was.
Well a guy still died and who cares if he did PED's in the past...not like he was a murder, rapist, drug addict, etc. Just because people make mistakes doesn't mean they don't deserve respect after death.


I agree with you on PED's in sports, but it is not going away so it is here to stay. We can accept it or be like you and choose to not watch. I love MMA and would prefer if everyone is clean, but I know that won't happen, but I choose to still watch!

[Captain Obvious]

Bulldog, agree. After seeing some of the youtube videos, didn't think much of him as a person. Then after time listening to him on TUF, seemed like a pretty nice (scary looking) but good hearted person. When is Kanye gonna take his turn? Too bad his skills were all brawl and fists and struggled in other facets, he was fun to watch.

[bulldog]

Bulldog, agree. After seeing some of the youtube videos, didn't think much of him as a person. Then after time listening to him on TUF, seemed like a pretty nice (scary looking) but good hearted person. When is Kanye gonna take his turn? Too bad his skills were all brawl and fists and struggled in other facets, he was fun to watch.
He truly was the definition of “don’t judge a book by its cover” because he looked like this mean, thug type, but all reports/interviews/friends, have said it was quite the opposite and he was not a thug and was actually a nice family man to his six kids (and all to the same women he was married to).

Since you watched TUF season with him, I am sure you remember when they introduced Kimbo to the group and the first to talk smack was Brendan Schaub because few felt he deserved this chance. Well by the end of the season, Kimbo and Brendan were good friends and he was one of the first fighters to come out saying how Kimbo is not what people think and is a good guy. According to him, Kimbo was never egotistical and gave respect to MMA because he knew he had a lot to learn. Kimbo took MMA very seriously and put his work in and that is what got him a fight in UFC (plus his popularity of course)…he beat Houston Alexander who had been in UFC a while. Tank Abbott is considered a legend (maybe more a pioneer) in UFC and Kimbo beat him back in the day too.


Kimbo wasn’t the best on the ground, but I do give him credit in his last fight with Ken Shamrock because Ken is great on the ground, and he got Kimbo in a submission and Kimbo got out….not bad when you consider how many fighters Shamrock submitted….showed Kimbo was improving.

Kimbo’s downfall has always been his knees…you can see that in the fight against Matt Mitrione where he just destroyed Kimbo with leg shots and basically made Kimbo retire from MMA for years because of his knee problems. Yet few know after he went into pro boxing and did really well; he went 7-1 (6 by KO).
Bottom line is he got into MMA late (in his 30’s) so it would have been different if he got an early start like other fighters.

[bulldog]

This is what is really confusing….and scary. Kimbo got a heart EKG and EEG in February when he last fought and was cleared (all fighters over 35 get these before a fight). Yet they claim in June when he went into hospital his heart was so bad it needed to be transplanted. Crazy in 6 months it got that bad…..I’m still thinking he had super high blood pressure he didn’t know about and this caused the heart issues….it’s more common that people think…especially in African Americans.

http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/08/kimbo-slice-bellator-heart-tests/

[#1Townie]

maybe prefight doc got paid off?

[bulldog]

maybe prefight doc got paid off? I guess it is possible, but I believe those doctors are not employees of Bellator and are employees of the Texas Dept of Licensing. So just like the referees they keep it separate so there is no "employee" interest by them. Of course anyone could be bought off....although morally you would have to be a real crappy doctor to ignore a heart problem in a fighter just so they could continue.

And if so, it still sounds like Kimbo had no idea about his heart being bad though or I'd assume he would have done something sooner, but all reports show this was the first sign he had.....although I read he had high blood pressure, so I still think this may have lead to his heart failure. Way too many people don't take is serious until it is too late because you get very little warning symptoms from it.

I can't find stats, but I believe high blood pressure (hypertension) could cause enough damage in a few months untreated to damage the heart and arteries enough to lead to this.

Then add in steroids on top of hypertension could not be a good combo!


One out of every six deaths in the U.S. is directly linked (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/health/research/02aware.html) to untreated high blood pressure (HBP), also called hypertension. In addition to heart attacks and strokes, HBP can lead to potentially fatal conditions like heart failure and kidney disease. It can also cause blindness.

[#1Townie]

I believe a doc was paid long before I would believe his heart just went bad in a few months.

[bulldog]

I believe a doc was paid long before I would believe his heart just went bad in a few months. Read about untreated hypertension though and it shows it is possible. The damage high blood pressure does to the body is pretty bad and all it takes is to clog one artery.

I only know all about this because I went through it last year and the doctors I saw really nailed it into me to get into doctor ASAP and not wait. I just happened to get a headache and while waiting for the light rail to go home I decided to take my blood pressure at Rite Aide as suggest by a coworker. My BP was super high and I called the doctor and they said to get in that day even though it was only a headache as all my organs were in danger.

Now reading more about it, I do see it why it is called the Silent Killer.

[#1Townie]

i would agree with you if he hadnt just been seen by a doctor. who should have been checking for this very thing. guess kimbo is lucky he even survived his fight.

think about it dude. he was failed. you want to complain about UFC but close your eyes to this? the fight world is dirty and corrupted. always has been. always will be.

[bulldog]

i would agree with you if he hadnt just been seen by a doctor. who should have been checking for this very thing. guess kimbo is lucky he even survived his fight.

think about it dude. he was failed. you want to complain about UFC but close your eyes to this? the fight world is dirty and corrupted. always has been. always will be.

Yeah that is why I was trying to find stats for how fast hypertension could kill. I mean you’d think blood pressure would always be taken before a fight, but maybe they wrote it off to nerves of fighting. I would be interested to see if in a few months of super high BP if it could do that damage in that time….especially when steroids are being used and intensive training. For sure you’d think a EKG would see something.

Oh yeah all sports are dirty though and players/fighters are just commodities to them; easily replaceable. It is why I’ve complained about CTE in the NFL as well as how crappy fighters get paid….bottom line is money. I mean when UFC knows a fighter fails a steroid test, but don’t release the finding till after they fight, it clearly shows they cared more about the money that would be lost over the fighters And this is not a sport where guys hit a baseball, they hit humans, so allowing fighters to fight on steroids is worst to me in fighting.

Basically as I told someone else on this board, my only choice is to stop watching, but I love it too much so I am stuck with the dirty world of sports as it is not going away….same with NFL…I still watch. I know if I had a kid, I would not encourage them to have a career in pro sports and would push academics over it.

[salsashark]

Maybe Talib shot him...

[JKOL]

Well a guy still died and who cares if he did PED's in the past...not like he was a murder, rapist, drug addict, etc. Just because people make mistakes doesn't mean they don't deserve respect after death.


I agree with you on PED's in sports, but it is not going away so it is here to stay. We can accept it or be like you and choose to not watch. I love MMA and would prefer if everyone is clean, but I know that won't happen, but I choose to still watch!

I'm with you, PEDs aren't going away like it or not, too much money at stake so for some it is worth the risk. Not my journey, but I couldn't care less what athletes decide. Not to mention, most of us couldn't recover and fight again after some of the beatings these guys take without PEDs.

Bummer about Kimbo, I became a fan of his during his season of TUF. At least as he was portrayed on the show, he seemed like a humble and very likable dude.

i will just ignore the Paul Walker comment, F&F movies are entertaining, but I struggle to get past the fact that his girlfriend was 16 when they met, and he was 17 years her senior.

[#1Townie]

I'm with you, PEDs aren't going away like it or not, too much money at stake so for some it is worth the risk. Not my journey, but I couldn't care less what athletes decide. Not to mention, most of us couldn't recover and fight again after some of the beatings these guys take without PEDs.

Bummer about Kimbo, I became a fan of his during his season of TUF. At least as he was portrayed on the show, he seemed like a humble and very likable dude.

i will just ignore the Paul Walker comment, F&F movies are entertaining, but I struggle to get past the fact that his girlfriend was 16 when they met, and he was 17 years her senior.

I won't even bother. one relationship doesn't make a person.

do a little homework before you judge a man's entire life over one event.

[bulldog]

I'm with you, PEDs aren't going away like it or not, too much money at stake so for some it is worth the risk. Not my journey, but I couldn't care less what athletes decide. Not to mention, most of us couldn't recover and fight again after some of the beatings these guys take without PEDs.

Bummer about Kimbo, I became a fan of his during his season of TUF. At least as he was portrayed on the show, he seemed like a humble and very likable dude.

i will just ignore the Paul Walker comment, F&F movies are entertaining, but I struggle to get past the fact that his girlfriend was 16 when they met, and he was 17 years her senior.
Yeah PED’s and sports are so intertwined it will never go away; millions if not billions is spent each year on PED’s and ways to beat PED’s tests. You look at stats and nearly every pro sport has had people caught for PED’s; Tennis, NFL, NBA, Cycling, MMA, NHL, the list just goes on and on. As technology evolves so has PED’s and it will only continue to grow. I do feel bad for the players that do try to be “clean” because they tend to not be the stars and they end up having to make a decision to also do PED’s or risk not being able to compete. I am sure so many pro players are plagued by this and has to be tough. Either way we will never get clear of PED’s in sports.

I think a lot of people saw him on TUF and changed their minds about him….it did for me. I remember one talk where he went to Brendan Schaub and basically said “hey man, I need help with this ground game. I don’t get it, but I know I need to learn it if I want to compete. I know I will never be a champion and not sure I even belong here, but I am here and want to take this serious and learn.” To me that was just so humble because people assumed Kimbo was going to come on the show and act like he was going to beat everyone….which was not the case, he knew he was a streetfighter and his skills lacked…yet he had the drive and commitment to do it and put in the time and dedication that many others could not do

Lol….never had hear that about Paul Walker. I did a quick search and it does appear she was 16 when they started to date, so that is crazy. At least it does seem like they were in love and together for 7 years and planned to marry. He claimed “age is nothing but a number”, but still that is very controversial. Overall like I said I can’t judge a person on a mistake they made in the past because they fact is he still seemed to be a good person that was a goodfather that died young and that sucks.