2017 MOTOGP Season ****SPOILER ALERT*** *****WARNING - SPOILER *******

[Gramps]

:ride:


Starting a fresh thread. I didn't bring over the few posts from the old thread that pertained to 2017 but I can if really necessary.

Just trying to keep things organized.

Stoner does look good on the new Duc and JLo got into a groove on day 2. Rossi is happy so those two are also going to be at the front.

Marquez looks a little rattled but it is just testing.

[madvlad]

I think the ones to watch out for are going to be Iannone and Viñales to be honest. Was surprised to see Lorenzo within the top 10 already but well Ducati has been working hard to deliver him a proper set up. It's going to be a very, very interesting season, even better than last season.

[Ted]

I think the ones to watch out for are going to be Iannone and Viñales to be honest. Was surprised to see Lorenzo within the top 10 already but well Ducati has been working hard to deliver him a proper set up. It's going to be a very, very interesting season, even better than last season.
Maybe AI might finally become consistent this year. Can't wait to see 99 in that first race.

[FZRguy]

Stoner is coming back?

[Gramps]

Stoner is coming back?

Man that's a long shot I think. He has it made right now.

[madvlad]

Both Honda and Ducati offered him rather fat contracts to come back and he declined, we won't see Stoner back unfortunately. Just like Lorenzo though I don't like them but their riding skill just brings excitement to this field. With Viñales and Iannone showing the type of pace and what not, I honestly can't wait to see this season. It's anyone's game

[The Black Knight]

Phillip Island test is done and looks to be Marquez v. Vinales this year. Rossi is going to have his hands full and I don't really see him winning much this year. I think Rossi will be a podium contender but not much for wins. 2017 will be a tough season.

[Gramps]

Testing is testing. I agree though there is some pretty tough competition this year. There is also some young guys on good machinery.

I think this season will be entertaining as hell.

[The Black Knight]

I agree, it is testing. But you can tell Vinales is out to prove a point. He's after Marquez's crown and you can bet he doesn't want to let anyone stand in his way. While Rossi is faster at this year's test than last year's. It seems the rest have upped their pace as well. Again, come race day, the usual suspects will be at the front. Be interesting to see if Vinales speed can translate into a whole race. Last year, with the exception of Silverstone, he'd start off great then fade back. Could have been the bike, could have been him or a combination of both. I'm sure being on the Yamaha has done a bit of good for his confidence.

We shall see, the Qatar GP can't come soon enough. I'm tired of no racing and winter is dragging it's feet.

[Gramps]

What are your thoughts on Crutchlow? He seems to be creeping up on the timing charts and no one is paying hi a lot of attention. He could be the dark horse in this thing that plays spoiler at times. I'm not a huge fan of his du to his consistent whining at times but it seems he found a happy spot for now.

Just thoughts.

[The Black Knight]

I think Crutchlow can be a force in some races. See he's in a dangerous spot right now for other riders. He's still got the confidence of the two wins from last year. So he knows he's got the speed to win. He just needs the bike to show up at all the tracks. Honda's have always done well at Phillip Island and his wet race win comes with the obligatory, "well it's anyone's race in the wet". So I think his win at Phillip Island proved a lot and it exposed a chink in the armor of the factory teams. Marquez did his usual win or bin ride at PI, and Rossi couldn't catch Crutchlow. So I think they had better keep an eye on him as he may show up on more than one occasion. If anything, I think he'll be a thorn in the side of the factory teams.

I'm with you on him as a person. I've always thought Crutchlow is fast, but man that guy sure can whine about stuff. It's just his style and delivery. He speaks his mind and has no filter from brain to mouth. Which is good and bad. The good is, you know where he stands on things but the bad is the way he executes his thought process. He has no tact at times.

Going off of last years performances. Of the nine race winners(aside from the top 4 aliens + Vinales) I'd say Crutchlow would be the most likely to repeat again this year. I don't see Dovi getting a sniff at another win(unless it's wet and now that Lorenzo is on a Ducati), Miller was a flash in the pan(which proves anyone can win in the rain), Iannone has a shot(and aside from Crutchlow, he has the best chance of more wins being on the factory Suzuki).

Then mix in some of these new rookies that are going fast. You know they're out to slap down some veteran racers in the process. Which is why I think it will be a tough year, and think Rossi has a lot on his plate(then again, they all do).

I can't call it outright and don't have a crystal ball. But I think we won't see as many different winners like in 2016. What I think we may get, is a return to the old school 990cc era of MotoGP where the races were knock down drag out fights from Lap 1 to the checker flag. Everyone looks very competitive and very fast. The usual suspects will be at the top, but I think even for them it's going to be a battle for every spot this year.

I think 2017 looks good...

[Gramps]

I agree with all your thoughts.

I was actually talking with a friend over dinner last night about Rossi. I guess some insider people(this guy is a little connected) think Rossi is a little tattered by all the PR commitments. He said that Rossi gives everything he can to every commitment and it has taken a toll on his energy for the whole process. So this of course came with the question of "Is this the last season?"

His response and from what he has heard was it could be a wait and see type thing. His source said usually once the season starts it's all about racing and that there is a routine to the season that helps calm down all the outside distractions.

I am personally a Rossi fan all the way. However I don't begrudge every other rider like some Rossi fans do. My fan status comes from two things. I love to see genuine love for the sport and someone who loves what they do at the highest level. I also think he has been and continues to be great for the sport. When he does retire MotoGP will hit somewhat of a plateau as far as ratings and new fan base I predict. I hate to bring a NASCRAP analogy in here but when Dale Earnhardt got killed they had the same problem. I would also say the NBA had the same issue with MJ. They were the faces of the sport at the time which I think Rossi is that to GP.

Anyway I thought that was interesting insight and I thought I would share.

I think Rossi is still very competitive and I guess I don't think about a guy who still wins races and seems just a tick away from another championship, retiring anytime soon. Who knows though. I can't imagine wrestling one of those beasts in my late 30's. He doesn't need the money and in my opinion he doesn't have anything else to prove to be the GOAT. So who knows I guess.

[The Black Knight]

I agree with all your thoughts.

I was actually talking with a friend over dinner last night about Rossi. I guess some insider people(this guy is a little connected) think Rossi is a little tattered by all the PR commitments. He said that Rossi gives everything he can to every commitment and it has taken a toll on his energy for the whole process. So this of course came with the question of "Is this the last season?"

His response and from what he has heard was it could be a wait and see type thing. His source said usually once the season starts it's all about racing and that there is a routine to the season that helps calm down all the outside distractions.

I am personally a Rossi fan all the way. However I don't begrudge every other rider like some Rossi fans do. My fan status comes from two things. I love to see genuine love for the sport and someone who loves what they do at the highest level. I also think he has been and continues to be great for the sport. When he does retire MotoGP will hit somewhat of a plateau as far as ratings and new fan base I predict. I hate to bring a NASCRAP analogy in here but when Dale Earnhardt got killed they had the same problem. I would also say the NBA had the same issue with MJ. They were the faces of the sport at the time which I think Rossi is that to GP.

Anyway I thought that was interesting insight and I thought I would share.

I think Rossi is still very competitive and I guess I don't think about a guy who still wins races and seems just a tick away from another championship, retiring anytime soon. Who knows though. I can't imagine wrestling one of those beasts in my late 30's. He doesn't need the money and in my opinion he doesn't have anything else to prove to be the GOAT. So who knows I guess.

You can tell in Rossi's interviews and with the new launch of the 2017 bike that he's very worn down by all the PR stints. I don't know what it's from, maybe he had a bad Winter off season, maybe he's finally coming to the end of his journey and is a bit saddened by it. Anyone would be, you spend 20+ years doing something and around for the most part the same people, then it comes time for you to retire. It would affect anyone, especially someone that is still young(at 38..) to retire early weighs on the mind.

Rossi is starting to exhibit the same signs as Stoner did when he was nearing his exit. They both just lost the taste for the whole circus. I think Stoner's was a much more pronounced disdain for PR and all the media stuff. However, Rossi is starting to show that he's not as interested as he used to be.

I agree with you though, once the lights drop in Qatar, that may fire him back up to 100%.

I don't think this is his last season, as he's signed for two(2017/18) but I think that unless he does well, this may be his last competitive year(where he's fast and fights for wins). And I'd really hate to see him go out that way. I'd like to see him still being able to grab a few wins and being fast when he retires.

Here's what I think from all the years of watching Rossi race and seeing tons of his interviews. And I don't know the guy personally but I think if by some off chance that he does win the Championship this year. It wouldn't surprise me if he just retires right after and doesn't fulfill his final year of contract. Rossi loves the sport, he loves to race just because he's competitive but I think he'd like to go out on top. I think that's why we've seen him so fast these last few years. The guy has come in 2nd in the championship for three years now, so we know he's not slow. But that's also got to wear him down as well, the whole 2nd best again and 1st loser again reality.

And, I know a lot of people don't want to hear about it and yes everyone has moved on. But I think the fiasco of 2015 really took a lot out of Rossi. Regardless of which side people fall on, most people would step back and say, Rossi got screwed out of the title that year. 2015 was probably one of his better years in awhile, lots of podiums and 4 wins. And it eventually came out in the wash that Marquez did hold Rossi responsible for losing the title that year. Emilio Alzamora had said to a couple of Rossi's people that Marquez held Rossi responsible for the incident in Argentina in 2015. So Sepang 2015 was a perfect storm for Marquez, he was faster and knew he could dick with Rossi enough to cause an incident. I still hold my belief that what Rossi did was right.

I agree, once Rossi leaves MotoGP we will see a very sharp decline in interest. How much?? Has yet to be determined. I think if Rossi were to win another title, then MotoGP would suffer a huge blow when he leaves. It would be a massive comeback story and now the star would be gone. If he doesn't win another championship, then MotoGP will weather his exit better. Other riders will be front and center and the focus will be on the competition of racing and championship rather than on Rossi. It still will be a big deal though, when he does leave.

It is true once the star of any sport leaves the sport suffers. Formula 1 hasn't been the same since Shumacher left. Football went through a golden era of amazing players, guys that would transcend normal players. NASCAR isn't the same with Earnhardt gone. I never liked basketball but you're right, even when I was a kid I knew how awesome Jordan was.

What I'd like to see Rossi do is fuse the Rossi of 2015 with the Rossi of 2016. His 2014/2015 form was ultra consistent, competitive but not as fast. He was always on the podium, always there fighting for a victory. The 2016 Rossi was way less consistent, made lots of mistakes but you could tell Rossi was clearly one of the fastest(if not at times THE fastest) rider on the grid. If he can blend the ability to be consistent and mistake free with the outright raw speed and pace of last year, then I think he's got the tools to be champion again. What I fear is a return to more 2014/15 form for Rossi and on paper it makes more sense for him to be that way. However, I really enjoyed how fast he was last year, regardless of all the mistakes.

[madvlad]

Also not to count that Rossi has a moto3 and 2 team in progress and a long term developmental contract with Yamaha for life after motogp. I see Rossi in this circus for maybe one more year depending on how this season goes and he's not doing bad to be 38 years old. He knows that Yamaha brought in Viñales cause they're taking a gamble for long term on him to be the next big thing at Yamaha with Rossi nearing the exit. Viñales has the traits that could make him a great and well liked champion, while he may not have the same popularity as Rossi obviously but he could get there with a few years, mainly after Rossi is gone. Everyone also keeps saying that it's only a matter of time before the wall in the pit goes up lol, those times have come and gone, Rossi isn't going to jeopardize his life after GP over a stupid feud with Viñales. As far Crutchlow goes, if he can find the consistency, he could be a contender and the surprise as I'm sure he is also very confident given last years wins and giving HRC something to bite their lip about.

[The Black Knight]

Also not to count that Rossi has a moto3 and 2 team in progress and a long term developmental contract with Yamaha for life after motogp. I see Rossi in this circus for maybe one more year depending on how this season goes and he's not doing bad to be 38 years old. He knows that Yamaha brought in Viñales cause they're taking a gamble for long term on him to be the next big thing at Yamaha with Rossi nearing the exit. Viñales has the traits that could make him a great and well liked champion, while he may not have the same popularity as Rossi obviously but he could get there with a few years, mainly after Rossi is gone. Everyone also keeps saying that it's only a matter of time before the wall in the pit goes up lol, those times have come and gone, Rossi isn't going to jeopardize his life after GP over a stupid feud with Viñales. As far Crutchlow goes, if he can find the consistency, he could be a contender and the surprise as I'm sure he is also very confident given last years wins and giving HRC something to bite their lip about.

I agree completely. We are starting to see the beginning of the end for Rossi. He's alluded to wanting to race til 40, but man I don't think he's got it in him. Vinales has a lot of good points working for him. He's not douchy like Lorenzo and seems to be happy most of the time. If he keeps his head down, not ruffle many feathers off track, he'll go far. He is the future for Yamaha.

The wall thing I never agreed with and Rossi was 50% blame on it. From what I gather in reading accounts on the whole situation. It was partially pushed on Rossi by Bridgestone. Bridgestone didn't want the data sharing with Lorenzo who at the time, was riding on Michelins. I think if Rossi would have pushed back the wall would not have come up. But Rossi was ticked off with Lorenzo, so the wall seemed a good idea at the time. It happens to the best of them. In 2010, even I'll admit it. Rossi was starting to believe his own bullsh*t and I think it went to his head. I still believe that his two years with Ducati was probably the best thing for Rossi. It humbled him to the core and made him a much better racer. Look at his times now compared to years ago. Rossi is way faster than ever, but the competition is just as fast. Sometimes people have to hit bottom and fight their way back to the top to really appreciate it to grow and develop the character of a true champion.

LOL!! with your quip about HRC, that has me thinking. It wouldn't surprise me that Crutchlow could be challenging Pedrosa for that second seat. The only problem I see with that, is on his day Pedrosa is as blistering fast as the other aliens. Crutchlow is not. Yes he's won two races but he has yet to show that true alien speed. Pedrosa is an alien, whereas Crutchlow is controlled chaos. And most of the time that controlled chaos ends up in the gravel. Crutchlow is there within sniff distance of being an alien.

Some people might say, well look at the testing times, lots of guys are faster than some of the aliens. I think Pol Espargaro said it best a couple seasons ago. He was actually whining in a interview. That during practice and qualifying he can be faster than Rossi. But then during the race, Rossi would find "another gear" so to speak and dust his ass during the race. It just goes to show how the true aliens are fast. For sure you'll get the Lorenzo's and the Marquez's that just have to be at the top of every time sheet. Lorenzo could order drive thru and still want to see his name at the top of fastest people to order their meal. He's just "that guy". Marquez is somewhat "that guy" as well. For me, from what I've seen. They use it as a gauge for how fast they are and to see if everyone can match them. Rossi, Pedrosa and a few others tend to keep things in reserve and display it on "race day", which is where it matters. They don't hand out trophies for fastest "practice lap" or "most practice laps at the top of the time sheets". And if they did, that's lame and I wouldn't watch racing.

All I know, I can't wait for Qatar GP to get here :up:

[madvlad]

So, the season is cooking up to be an interesting one. A week left, what are your guys' predictions with how pre-season has gone so far?

[The Black Knight]

So, the season is cooking up to be an interesting one. A week left, what are your guys' predictions with how pre-season has gone so far?

Predictions are kind of in my assessments in above posts. But to make things short and to the point. I foresee this season shaping up to be a Marquez v. Vinales battle. I think Rossi will claim a few victories here and there. I think Lorenzo will snag a victory or two as well. It's going to be the main four or five aliens doing the business.

Unless anyone has something for Vinales, he's going to be a force to be reckoned with. The main issue with Vinales will be longevity and can he finish a race as good as he starts one. I think Marquez will some issues this year. He's been falling a lot and having problems with the new fairing and bike. Pedrosa is kind of no where at times, then jumps up the sheets. Lorenzo I think will take a year or two to really get the Ducati up to proper speed.

I just hope Rossi wins Mugello this year. If he can't accomplish anything else, at least with Mugello. I'll be super happy with a single Mugello win.

[Ted]

I give Qatar to a Dovi or 99.

[Gramps]

I give Qatar to a Dovi or 99.

Dovi maybe. 99 would be divine intervention. That dude even admits he doesn't know how to ride that Duck yet.

25 is going to have to learn some racecraft now that he has a fast bike.

Who knows who wins Qatar but it will be fun to watch!

[The Black Knight]

Dovi maybe. 99 would be divine intervention. That dude even admits he doesn't know how to ride that Duck yet.

25 is going to have to learn some racecraft now that he has a fast bike.

Who knows who wins Qatar but it will be fun to watch!

See, that is where I think Vinales might struggle. Sure he's riding a wave of confidence and euphoria because he's suddenly the top alien in speed. The problem is, come race day, the guys that switch to that "it" factor, make their switch. Then it's a whole different ball game. What Vinales may come to realize that being fast isn't enough and he's going to be dicing it up with the heavy hitters for wins.

I think a similar thing happened with Stoner. Lot of people will think I'm taking a dig at Stoner but believe it or not, I have his book "Pushing The Limits" and it's a great book. I'm always interested in what makes the best of the best tick. I also have Rossi's autobiography, "What If I Never Tried". Funny thing is, I haven't read it yet.

Anyways, one of the take aways from Stoner's book is that when he was young, he just won. He won every race he'd enter. Yeah, he lost a few here and there but for the most part he would always win. So when he hit the pro's that kind of mentality just stuck with him. He was just so used to winning. When he jumped on the Ducati and started winning, he let it go to his head.

I think that's one area he really suffered in. He's still one of the fastest guys I've ever seen, and perhaps the fastest. I've never seen someone just right out of the box, start laying down super fast laps. Marquez comes close but he's the only one. But will the winning and all the fastest this and fastest that, Stoner lost his ability to know how to lose. I think that's why he took 08 Laguna so personal, well and a host of other things.

The same could happen with Vinales if he doesn't keep his head in check and feet on the ground. Sure he's fast and awesome but he's unproven and needs to really become one with the aliens.

We'll see how it all pans out. Qatar is a hard race. Everyone is competitive at Qatar. Everyone is anxious to get their season off with a bang.

If I had to pick a Qatar rostrum it'd go something like this:

1st - Marquez, Vinales and maybe Rossi

2nd - Rossi if he can't win, and Pedrosa or Dovi

3rd - Rossi if he can't secure 2nd and really has a bad weekend, Lorenzo or Dovi.

4th(best of the rest) - I'd say Bautista may surprise some folks, along with Folger or Crutchlow. Iannone a strong candidate for 4th.


Now the reason I'm picking Rossi for all three spots is going off of his Day 2 performance. Just because I'm a Rossi fan doesn't cloud what I think of his pace but honestly, from what I've seen. I really think he is sandbagging a bit. The fact that he was nowhere on Day 2 and then towards the end put in that hot lap that was .122 behind Vinales, tells me he's got something up his sleeve.

I do think Rossi is in a bit of trouble with sorting the tires for full race distance and having some front end issues. But I don't think he's making it as dire as it seems. Who knows though, he really could be up a creek without a paddle and we won't know until the season starts.

[madvlad]

Dude what a fucking shit show, that weather has done a number on the weekend. Rossi had issues with his bike at WUP, this isn't looking good for him at least. This race is going to be a cluster fuck

[The Black Knight]

Dude what a fucking shit show, that weather has done a number on the weekend. Rossi had issues with his bike at WUP, this isn't looking good for him at least. This race is going to be a cluster fuck

The other crazy thing I was reading last night, is if it does rain and the track is super shiny because of the water and night race. It may get cancelled altogether. Which would mean, one less race to the season. Capirossi was saying it will be up to the riders to determine what would happen because of the great risk to safety. At this moment all looks good and no rain. You never know though, with is weird as the weather has been, could come out of nowhere come race time.

Yeah, I think this is Vinales race to lose and Marquez will be pushing as hard as possible to fight for the win. Honestly, if Rossi can even sniff the podium would be a miracle in and of itself. I think for today's race, he's a top 5 at best..

Pedrosa has also been all of nowhere. I think this new carcass that Michelin has brought is a little on the soft side. Not just Rossi but Marquez and Lorenzo have also said they don't care for the new tire. Could be another up and down year for Pedrosa as well.

[The Black Knight]

Well, that really wasn't what I was expecting. The winner is who I expected but what the hell did I just watch from the rest??

Big congrats to Vinales, given his pace I think this was the result we expected. Although, didn't figure he's struggle the way he did in the first part of the race. Dovi proving why he's good at the beginning of the season, see if he holds up.

What can I say about old man winter(Rossi). I love it when he makes me eat words and honestly didn't think he had a podium shot given morning warm up and the troubles he's been having. Which, does confirm what I was suspecting, he may have been sandbagging it a bit. Didn't have Vinales pace but he was sure close.

Marquez had a dud of a performance, wonder if Honda may be having some issues. Pedrosa and A. Espargaro were gaining on Marquez towards the end.

And what was that from A. Espargaro anyway?? first top 6 for Aprilia!!! :up: He was all over Pedrosa there at one point, I really hope he can take that team to some better avenues.

Zarco was hilarious, thought we might see history in the making but then the inevitable happened.

Crutchlow back to crashing ways and Lorenzo, wow what I can I say. That has to be a demoralizing race. Teammate is fighting for a win and he's squandering down in 10th. I know Lorenzo will bounce back and figure out how to extract potential out of that Ducati but I couldn't help but have some satisfaction seeing him way down in the order.


me seeing Lorenzo finish down in 11th:
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/Stuff/Smile_zps3fb88d25.gif

All in all, this was a good race and nice to have the season under way

[Gramps]

I thought it was great race. Vinales on the Yamaha is a good match which seemed apparent throughout testing. He is learning racecraft which he stated in the post race interviews he was being cautious in the first stages of the race. SMART!

Dovi was there but he is consistently good in Qatar. So no surprise but he did better than I expected.

I'm with you on Rossi. He had to be sandbagging. He didn't have winning pace but if the front two would have made a mistake of any kind he would have finished even better. He is the GOAT so I don't know why we are surprised.

JLo will be inconsistent and pretty much a non-factor this year I expect and that makes me smile a little as well. I think Marquez may struggle a little this year as well. He just doesn't look happy with the bike or the direction at this point.

I'm glad it was a good race and I'm glad racing is back!

[The Black Knight]

I thought it was great race. Vinales on the Yamaha is a good match which seemed apparent throughout testing. He is learning racecraft which he stated in the post race interviews he was being cautious in the first stages of the race. SMART!

Dovi was there but he is consistently good in Qatar. So no surprise but he did better than I expected.

I'm with you on Rossi. He had to be sandbagging. He didn't have winning pace but if the front two would have made a mistake of any kind he would have finished even better. He is the GOAT so I don't know why we are surprised.

JLo will be inconsistent and pretty much a non-factor this year I expect and that makes me smile a little as well. I think Marquez may struggle a little this year as well. He just doesn't look happy with the bike or the direction at this point.

I'm glad it was a good race and I'm glad racing is back!

Cause he's old!! :lol:

The guy just blows me away with how fast he is at his age...

[Okrapp]

Good opening race and happy it happened after the delay concerns. Some good back and forth at the front.

[Gramps]

Cause he's old!! :lol:

The guy just blows me away with how fast he is at his age...

Maybe we should move all Rossi discussions to the FOG section:idea:

[The Black Knight]

Maybe we should move all Rossi discussions to the FOG section:idea:

Not quite yet, I'd say wait til he's 40 or once AARP kicks in. He's still young enough to not be taking Metamucil so I think he's o.k.

[madvlad]

:lol:

[madvlad]

Rossi putting duct tape on people's mouths dude, loving this shit. Team bluuuuuuuue!

[The Black Knight]

Rossi putting duct tape on people's mouths dude, loving this shit. Team bluuuuuuuue!

Would like to see him bag a few wins in the next coming races to really prove the point he's still relevant to MotoGP. It's kind of out of his hands at the moment. The 2017 M1 and Rossi just aren't meshing well. He's doing well to compensate for the lack on front end feeling he's getting. Can't help but wonder if he had last years chassis, I dare say he'd be fighting with Vinales for the win, maybe even streaking away into the distance.

This was a good race and very interesting in the points now. Lots of wrecks in the race, can't believe only 16 riders completed the race. And my personal opinion on the Iannone jump start is not cool. Granted the rules say if you flinch it is considered a jump. But his bike never moved from what I could tell and I watched it three times. Yeah he flinched a bit but didn't move. I also think that due to his contact with Lorenzo was penalty enough for him, that the ride through was just salt in a wound.

Poor Dovi, that guy runs wide in order to not collect Petrucci due to running in hot, and then A. Espargaro lays him low a split second later. That dude just gets all the wrong mojo. At least Espargaro was very cool and kind about it.

What's with Team Repsol?? Two riders down in the same corner, just on different laps. The new Honda looks twitchy. Still couldn't figure out why Marquez was doing a Stoner type start. I think he was worried about Vinales pace in the latter stages of the race. He may even have been concerned about Rossi clawing back time on him(i.e. 2015). That was rather odd from Marquez to squirt off into the lead so fast. Seemed rushed and nervous.

Felt bad for Dovi, didn't fell bad at all for Lorenzo. Talk about a bang up way to start the season. I think his smooth way of riding is not doing any justice on the Ducati. I watched that reply as well and he just rode right into Iannone. Iannone did cut back a little but he was in front. Lorenzo looks desperate to perform as well on the Ducati. It's going to be a long season for him.

Big congrats to the Tech 3 squad. Tech 3 needed some new blood and these guys are just the ticket. Both had a good showing and had good pace, especially Zarco.

Let's see what happens, need to get Austin out of the way. It's a genuine bogey track for the Yamaha's(though I don't think they will struggle as much this year). Then we hit the traditional Euro tracks and hopefully Rossi gets it under control by then. I personally believe that Championships are won and lost in the first half of the season. If Rossi would have been stronger in the first half of 2015 and secured more wins, then he could have played it close to the vest in the second half, just bag points and let everyone try and catch you. If he's not careful and can't snag some wins then it's all over. Vinales will be on cruise control for the championship come the second half of the year.

Look how it's shaping up already after two races..

http://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics/

[Gramps]

It was a weird race to watch for me. It was different at the beginning because of MM trying to outride the tires. I think he was lucky last year to keep everything together and get the championship points before Honda started changing things. He started wrecking and having trouble late last year. I have a theory about Honda's problems and I thought it would come sooner than last year.

Vinales is riding the wheels off right now but if history tells us anything he too will have a bad race or make mistakes somewhere. If that happens I would say Rossi is in the perfect spot at the moment. Remember 2015.

JLo can wreck every race and I wouldn't care as long as he doesn't get hurt. I love Ducati but 99 is just a douche. Dovi on the other hand deserves to win some and be up front but between the Ducati handling woes and his terrible luck who knows about that team.

Iannone got a raw deal I agree.

Austin should be fun to watch. MM may continue his streak but it's doubtful.

[The Black Knight]

It was a weird race to watch for me. It was different at the beginning because of MM trying to outride the tires. I think he was lucky last year to keep everything together and get the championship points before Honda started changing things. He started wrecking and having trouble late last year. I have a theory about Honda's problems and I thought it would come sooner than last year.

Vinales is riding the wheels off right now but if history tells us anything he too will have a bad race or make mistakes somewhere. If that happens I would say Rossi is in the perfect spot at the moment. Remember 2015.

JLo can wreck every race and I wouldn't care as long as he doesn't get hurt. I love Ducati but 99 is just a douche. Dovi on the other hand deserves to win some and be up front but between the Ducati handling woes and his terrible luck who knows about that team.

Iannone got a raw deal I agree.

Austin should be fun to watch. MM may continue his streak but it's doubtful.

What's your theory on Honda's problems??

My take, is they design a very point and shoot bike. A bike that has to dive into corners hard and then punch it on the way out. Not a whole lot of finesse in their machine. Plus they have a very powerful engine, which makes the point and shoot worse in my eyes. It chews up the tires which is why Marquez prefers the Hard option tire most of the time. Rossi likes the Hard front but that is due to his preference in braking stability. Marquez almost has to run the Hard just to finish races. And when I say Hard option, I don't mean Hard only. He(Marquez) usually has to run the "harder" compound at just about every race compared to everyone else.

On the flip side you look at Pedrosa someone who isn't heavy and has a hard time generating heat in his tires. Which is a paradox between the two riders. One is super aggressive, while the other is more finesse and flow. So it's odd that a bike gives issues in different ways to two different riders. Me personally, I've always felt Pedrosa does well on the Honda. His problem right now is the Michelin, same as last year. For him and his size, it's just a junk tire.

I will say, that I believe when concerning the Honda, their success was more due to their superior factory software than anything else. Once MotoGP went to the compulsory software, Honda started having these problems that weren't even considered back during the "Factory" software days. So that's where I think a good portion of the problem stems from, is the software.

In regards to Lorenzo, I'm with you. I never want to see anyone hurt/injured. But it does put a very big smile on my face when I see him out of the race or have a bad race. I like to think it knocks him down a rung or two with each race. And I'll never feel bad for him considering the rumored "$17 million per year" he's getting to ride that pile. He's got 17 million reasons to do better next time.

I think Lorenzo will in time start to do well on the Ducati and go on to win races with the bike. I think he'll finish his career at Ducati as well. With Vinales at Yamaha, I think Rossi's seat will go to either Zarco or Folger, or possibly Morbidelli when he graduates up a class. Don't see Lorenzo coming back to Yamaha.

[Gramps]

My HONDA theory is simple. I think Marquez for all his great wins and sliding/loose style can't help develop the bike. Honda has done pretty well especially when Marquez came on scene because of all the R&D that had been done in the past. He was on the best bike because of the electronics and other things. That work now has been diluted over the years and now the changes and updates to the bike don't fit the old R&D.

How in the hell is Honda supposed to collect any data with all the sliding and spinning and crazy stuff that Marquez does. Plus Honda is so arrogant they just thought they were so good that no one could catch up.

So that's my theory. Honda has no data to R&D anything. They just throw shit at the wall so to speak. Now they are heading down the road that Ducati went down in the Stoner era. They have a bike that maybe one guy has a chance to win on. When that guy leaves they are back at square one with R&D and they will be looking at years of rebuilding a race winning machine.

On a side note there was an article I read about AStars was trying to collect some data from MM's knee slider and had a sensor in there to record info. They couldn't collect much info because as they reported he doesn't use a lot of knee pressure because he is so balanced on the bike. Crazy to think with all the sliding and extreme lean angles. That guy is crazy talented.

As far as JLo I'm not sure I agree that he will get better. In the past he hasn't handled frustration very well. He is trying to change the bike to suit him and he may not be the correct guy for the bike. I bet Stoner is faster on the bike if they did a time trial today just because Stoner could ride around the problems. I'm not a Stoner the moaner fan but damn the guy was fast on a terrible bike.

Anyway it's fun to see if my predictions come true. I'm really interested to see how the Honda's perform at COTA.

[Mr2GQ]

As far as JLo I'm not sure I agree that he will get better. In the past he hasn't handled frustration very well. He is trying to change the bike to suit him and he may not be the correct guy for the bike. I bet Stoner is faster on the bike if they did a time trial today just because Stoner could ride around the problems. I'm not a Stoner the moaner fan but damn the guy was fast on a terrible bike.

This is spot on. Lorenzo is exactly what Ducatti was in need of. A pretty face that can help get their bikes sold. Thats something they lost with Stoner, and with Iannoni' being all over the place, they need the PR.

What they didn't expect is, while JLoz can sell cologne, working with a doucherocket is tough. I'm curious to see how long it lasts before he starts blaming the crew, leadership, etc... Lorenzo has never been able take responsibility.

His loser face is tied with Cam Newton in my book. SO MUCH JOY.

[Gramps]

This is spot on. Lorenzo is exactly what Ducatti was in need of. A pretty face that can help get their bikes sold. Thats something they lost with Stoner, and with Iannoni' being all over the place, they need the PR.

What they didn't expect is, while JLoz can sell cologne, working with a doucherocket is tough. I'm curious to see how long it lasts before he starts blaming the crew, leadership, etc... Lorenzo has never been able take responsibility.

His loser face is tied with Cam Newton in my book. SO MUCH JOY.

Not long for the blame game I'm afraid. He is blaming Iannone for his latest episode and to date I haven't seen him apologize to anyone who was behind his fiasco. Baz made the statement that dodging JLo took him out of contention for any good result. Where is the apology from JLo?

I like the Cam Newton comparison.:up: They both have the same amount of class/sportsmanship to me. Blow hard show offs don't usually handle adversity very well.

[longrider]

Anybody see this video of Lorenzo after the crash???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcBPS6SIiYM

[The Black Knight]

Anybody see this video of Lorenzo after the crash???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcBPS6SIiYM

Right as the Marshalls come over to help move the bike he just throws it over.

Classic D-bag of the Year stuff right there...

[madvlad]

That dude makes it very difficult to be liked man, douche of the year award already.

[The Black Knight]

That dude makes it very difficult to be liked man, douche of the year award already.

I agree, Lorenzo is past being able to like the guy. He's so douchy it's not even funny anymore.

But at least here is someone who knows how to treat their bike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qH6vr-cBqk

[The Black Knight]

My HONDA theory is simple. I think Marquez for all his great wins and sliding/loose style can't help develop the bike. Honda has done pretty well especially when Marquez came on scene because of all the R&D that had been done in the past. He was on the best bike because of the electronics and other things. That work now has been diluted over the years and now the changes and updates to the bike don't fit the old R&D.

How in the hell is Honda supposed to collect any data with all the sliding and spinning and crazy stuff that Marquez does. Plus Honda is so arrogant they just thought they were so good that no one could catch up.

So that's my theory. Honda has no data to R&D anything. They just throw shit at the wall so to speak. Now they are heading down the road that Ducati went down in the Stoner era. They have a bike that maybe one guy has a chance to win on. When that guy leaves they are back at square one with R&D and they will be looking at years of rebuilding a race winning machine.

On a side note there was an article I read about AStars was trying to collect some data from MM's knee slider and had a sensor in there to record info. They couldn't collect much info because as they reported he doesn't use a lot of knee pressure because he is so balanced on the bike. Crazy to think with all the sliding and extreme lean angles. That guy is crazy talented.

As far as JLo I'm not sure I agree that he will get better. In the past he hasn't handled frustration very well. He is trying to change the bike to suit him and he may not be the correct guy for the bike. I bet Stoner is faster on the bike if they did a time trial today just because Stoner could ride around the problems. I'm not a Stoner the moaner fan but damn the guy was fast on a terrible bike.

Anyway it's fun to see if my predictions come true. I'm really interested to see how the Honda's perform at COTA.

Meant to reply to this the other day and just spaced it out.

Yeah I think with Marquez he is so wild and loose that it is hard for him and Honda to tame issues with the bike. The Astar thing is interesting. I would say, they should have put a sensor in his elbow slider. He seems to be on the elbow more than the knee(Pol Espargaro is the same). I've seen all of his crazy saves from him being at 68 degrees of lean angle and what seems to save him is his elbow on the ground. I would think they could have gained some good data from his elbow slider verse the knee slider.

Concerning JLo, I think you could be right also. He may not improve. I think he will just based on his past, when he does get it right he'll be fast. Problem will be as you say, handling the frustration of not being fast and getting right for a long time to come. Could diminish his mindset and I think it's safe to say, he's not the strongest of minds on the grid. Prone to temper tantrums and fits of anger with zero accountability.

I agree also, Stoner I believe is faster than Lorenzo. Always will be on the Ducati. I never disliked Stoner based on his on track performances. It was his off track problems and lack of personality that made him hard to deal with. As far as riders with pure raw speed, I still think Stoner is the fastest guy I've ever seen. Right out of the box he's fast. He just rides around problems on bikes and just goes fast. Whereas other riders have to work on set up and work their way to his level and speed. It can be done, I remember Rossi saying that Stoner is just fast from the beginning. He's beatable but work has to be done to get to that level.

The thing with Stoner is he never really got faster over a race weekend. Sure he improved as they all do. But he was always kind of on the limit from the first practice. The other riders would catch up during all the FP's and Qualifying rounds. Regardless of how fast Stoner was, it wasn't enough for the Ducati in later years after his title win. It was only magnified when Rossi jumped on the bike. Stoner was willing to ride around the problems of the Ducati and Rossi wanted to change it to make it work. We all saw that never happened.

Even with all the leaps and bounds Ducati have made in terms of development with the GP17. I still don't think it's on par with Yamaha or Honda. I honestly don't think it's on par with the Suzuki. I think compared to the three, the Ducati is closest to the Suzuki. Sure they blow everyone away with their straight line speed and powerhouse engine. Yet, the Suzuki has the sweetest handling package. I'd much rather have a bike that move around a track, than have one that just rockets around but can't turn.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, I think Lorenzo would be more competitive on the Suzuki but that's just my take on it. However, that's not happening anytime soon. He wouldn't lower himself to throw a leg over a Suzuki.

But I think going off Vinales win last year at Silverstone of all places(a place that is big and fast) and how Iannone is doing on the bike, the Suzuki is faster than what people think it is. Problem so far is that Suzuki needs some breaks to go their way. Iannone to stay on the bike and get some solid results and for Rins to heal up and stop being a turd on the bike. They'll come around eventually...

[Gramps]

What's everyone's COTA prediction?

Will MM win it again?

[RandomTask]

MM is strong there. But I'm gonna go with MV, if he can keep the rubber side down...

[blaircsf]

So far MV25 is looking strong, although MM93 isn't far off.

I thought this was interesting:
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/motogp-everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-braking-at-circuit-of-the-americas/

[blaircsf]

End of FP2 had some interesting shuffling.

[Gramps]

End of FP2 had some interesting shuffling.

It did.

[The Black Knight]

I swear, I'm getting so irritated with MotoGP.com's sh*t website. They continually have problems. Can't watch morning practice at the moment. Just getting a black screen. This is getting real old with them having streaming issues. Pay these people $100+ a year to have access and this is the lame service they provide.

What's worse is if I watch the races on my desktop computer, about half way through it locks up my computer and my monitor will show "no input" even though I can hear the audio, but just get a black screen.

Now on my laptop, I just get the black screen and no streaming. MotoGP's subscription is straight garbage....


p.s.
my flash player is up to date as well....

[madvlad]

The funny part is that you'd think that this issue would be fixed with them bumping the fees up to nearly $150 from $120, that's ridiculous.

[madvlad]

The funny part is that you'd think that this issue would be fixed with them bumping the fees up to nearly $150 from $120, that's ridiculous. Glad I didn't pay this year

[madvlad]

And Rossi upsetting bitches at the last minute haha, man out of nowhere! This dude has a knack for staying alive lol

[The Black Knight]

The funny part is that you'd think that this issue would be fixed with them bumping the fees up to nearly $150 from $120, that's ridiculous.


And Rossi upsetting bitches at the last minute haha, man out of nowhere! This dude has a knack for staying alive lol

Exactly, with the fees they charge you'd think we would be getting much better connection and streaming. Even with my super fast cable internet streaming at 1080i from them can be a pain. I normally just use 720i instead of 1080, which I prefer. At least I got it to work for FP3 this morning, though it was half over when it finally started working.

Just got home and watched Qualifying and yeah Rossi pissed in some wheaties for a minute. Least Vinales was cool enough to say it was a normal racing incident. He really didn't have a leg to stand on with how he balked Redding. Had that been Lorenzo I'm sure it would have been blown out of proportion.

Should be a good race tomorrow. Sure it will be Marquez v. Vinales and Rossi on the podium.

[Gramps]

I'm interested to see how JLO does from 6th. He snuck into that grid position and with the speed of the Duck he may be able to make some moves on those straights. I'm not rooting for him but it will be interesting. If he bins it again then the media will go crazy.

[madvlad]

Not sure, can't say to be be honest but if he gets impatient, it's going to be another bad weekend for him. Shoutout to BeIn sports for being assholes and not showing the race live now on either channel thanks to that bullshit el clasico soccer game

[The Black Knight]

Not sure, can't say to be be honest but if he gets impatient, it's going to be another bad weekend for him. Shoutout to BeIn sports for being assholes and not showing the race live now on either channel thanks to that bullshit el clasico soccer game

Dude, we all know La Liga or whatever lame soccer game that is on is way more important than MotoGP. Just look at the artistry of soccer, how they can go 700 minutes without scoring a single point. Or how when they do score a point the people in the stands riot, burn stuff and beat each other because they've never seen a goal at a soccer game before. Or how all soccer players should receive Academy Awards for their acting, because they certainly aren't playing the game.

In all honesty, Soccer sucks and it always will. It's a crappy.... terrible sport.... and it's lame. Soccer is the only sport that has more "Draws" than wins or losses...

Sorry you have to miss the game man. With all the connectivity issues I have with MotoGP.com's site, it is at times like this I'm glad I have it. Least, I can watch it. I checked FS1 and FS2(Fox Sports) and neither of those two are showing it either. You'd think with this being the only American GP round we get from MotoGP, that Fox Suck 1 or Sucks 2 could tear themselves away from Neckcar for a few hours and show the race. They won't even do it for the American Formula 1 races. Formula 1 is on some NSNBCSF, ABCDEF, NCIS, BATFE, Member FDIC or some channel that I don't get with Playstation Vue. So I haven't watched a Formula 1 race this year.

[madvlad]

I grew up playing soccer, played for the reserves for the Rapids here and it's a lifestyle back home but have lost love for it due to politics and flopping so agreed with what you said. A friend let me use the MotoGP pass for today thankfully so won't miss it :)

[ock1]

With all the talk during free practice 3 & 4 about how bumpy the track's gotten, and reports from the last track day that you weren't allowed to pass the people parking in the corners who'd never ridden on a track before, is it worth trying to ride there anymore?

[blaircsf]

With all the talk during free practice 3 & 4 about how bumpy the track's gotten, and reports from the last track day that you weren't allowed to pass the people parking in the corners who'd never ridden on a track before, is it worth trying to ride there anymore?

I wonder how bumpy it is though. I expect 'bumpy' for a MotoGP track might be different than my opinion of bumpy.

[The Black Knight]

Plot thickens now... Knew Vinales couldn't keep it together forever. Though I expected it to happen later in the year than now. So maybe he'll get the bugs out and be back to normal.

All I can say is, Rossi you got a huge gift today of the championship lead, now do your best to put some daylight between you and everyone else. We're coming to traditional Rossi tracks starting Jerez, he needs some big wins in the next four races to really capitalize on Vinales mistake. Marquez will claw back some ground as well.

What I couldn't understand was Rossi's pace. He was really just loafing along most of the race behind Pedrosa and then once he got past he puts 3+ seconds between him and Dani in the matter of two laps. I mean really?? Where was that during the race?? Granted he knew Vinales was out so he played it safe and brought home 20 points.

Oh yeah, someone slap the sh*t out of Zarco for that move. Thought the penalty to Rossi was weak as well, he gained no advantage, both kept their positions and it showed at the end of the race Zarco was all of nowhere. Guess .3 seconds is better than back of the grid start a la Valencia 2015...

Good race :up:

[madvlad]

They ride through it, that's what they do. They're the elite of the elite for a reason. Bummed for Viñales man but very happy for Rossi taking podium. Lorenzo dropped off as expected but he won't be relevant for a while.

[The Black Knight]

They ride through it, that's what they do. They're the elite of the elite for a reason. Bummed for Viñales man but very happy for Rossi taking podium. Lorenzo dropped off as expected but he won't be relevant for a while.

Exactly, I think it was Matt Birt that said, what can Rossi do? Just try and make the corner and then they both would have went down. Have to give the two announcers credit even they thought the penalty was bunk.

[madvlad]

I was referring to the bumps but yeah the penalty was bogus imo. Not that it mattered anyways, Rossi rode very smart and a well earned podium by him. I admire Zarco and his guts though, that dude is riding like he's been with the big dogs for a minute. Wouldn't surprise me if Yamaha factory pick him up later if he keep performing this way

[The Black Knight]

I was referring to the bumps but yeah the penalty was bogus imo. Not that it mattered anyways, Rossi rode very smart and a well earned podium by him. I admire Zarco and his guts though, that dude is riding like he's been with the big dogs for a minute. Wouldn't surprise me if Yamaha factory pick him up later if he keep performing this way

I see what you mean.

For me, I think Zarco is a really good rider as well. He has been known for some aggressive moves in Moto2 in the past. Rossi really slapped him down in the press conference post race. He was a bit harsh, but it could be lack of words(in English) to explain how he felt. I do agree with Rossi, that MotoGP isn't Moto2 and Zarco needs to learn that. A reporter asked Rossi and Pedrosa why they think the Moto2 riders are more aggressive than the old school 250cc riders. Rossi was spot on in his assessment in that with Moto2 everyone is on the same playing field. Same engine, same tires, same brakes, etc. So for Moto2 riders the main difference has to come from the rider. Which usually translates into good Moto2 races but develops a very aggressive way of riding. Pedrosa said somewhat similar in his response but referenced that new riders to MotoGP bikes need to understand the weight, the power, the fact that they arrive quicker into corners, etc.

You could tell by Rossi's initial remark about Zarco, that Marquez didn't care for it. He gave a very telling eyebrow raise when Rossi mentioned that Zarco needs to ride "more quiet".

Zarco's problem is he gets "shiny object syndrome". Look at Qatar as a good example. Something awesome happens and he's like a dog chasing parked cars, doesn't know what to do when he catches one. His lead in Qatar amped him up and he pushed his luck. Here in COTA, he saw he was catching Rossi and got excited by the fact that he's up with the front guys.

Which is odd that Zarco would suffer from some SOS, because he's older than most of the other riders so you'd think he'd have most of that out of his system by now. I can see Miller, or Redding or one of the Espargaro bros. pulling those kind of moves. You know the young, dumb, full of cum types.

I still like Zarco, I think he's got the best shot at getting Rossi's spot when Rossi retires. He does need to realize that he's not in Moto2 anymore. FWIW, he's doing great for a being a rookie. Would have thought Folger would be closer and Zarco is doing better than the other Moto2 graduates. I expected Rabat to do well in MotoGP considering how dominant he was in Moto2 and man that guy has turned out to be a real turd. Rabat will fall into the category of the "also rans" with time...

[Gramps]

I wonder how bumpy it is though. I expect 'bumpy' for a MotoGP track might be different than my opinion of bumpy.

I rode there in March and it's not terrible. The race line these guys are using is probably not the line you will be riding. There are a few I remember like the bump coming down the hill but it's still in great shape. HPR is way more bumpy currently than COTA.

[The Black Knight]

I rode there in March and it's not terrible. The race line these guys are using is probably not the line you will be riding. There are a few I remember like the bump coming down the hill but it's still in great shape. HPR is way more bumpy currently than COTA.

Also to remember is that Formula 1 races there at the end of the year and MotoGP at the beginning of the race season. From what I gather, Formula 1 wrecked that track last year. Even lightweight F1 cars put loads of stress on pavement. Can't you imagine if NASCAR actually ran that track!!! They'd have to completely bust out the old pavement, take it down to road base and pour new asphalt every year if NECKCAR came there.

[Gramps]

Also to remember is that Formula 1 races there at the end of the year and MotoGP at the beginning of the race season. From what I gather, Formula 1 wrecked that track last year. Even lightweight F1 cars put loads of stress on pavement. Can't you imagine if NASCAR actually ran that track!!! They'd have to completely bust out the old pavement, take it down to road base and pour new asphalt every year if NECKCAR came there.

I would imagine they will do a repave this fall/winter. There are too many people talking about the track condition and riders complaining about it. The track may even cut some dates out for some of the smaller track organizations.

[madvlad]

Holy Pedrosa man haha, great race by this dude and well earned win. Lorenzo out of nowhere lol and man Yamaha choosing the worst time to drop the ball, holy shit if Viñales and Rossi looked insanely uncomfortable, complete disaster when the satellite team finished ahead of the Factory team. Really curious as of to what happened besides the rear grip issue, there has to be something else besides that cause Rossi and Viñales were dropping like flies.

[The Black Knight]

Holy Pedrosa man haha, great race by this dude and well earned win. Lorenzo out of nowhere lol and man Yamaha choosing the worst time to drop the ball, holy shit if Viñales and Rossi looked insanely uncomfortable, complete disaster when the satellite team finished ahead of the Factory team. Really curious as of to what happened besides the rear grip issue, there has to be something else besides that cause Rossi and Viñales were dropping like flies.
Yeah, it's called Yamaha going backwards in engineering. The 2017 is a certified POS at this point. Sure it works for Vinales, but Rossi can't push, can't ride like he did in 2016. Basically, he can't do really much of anything. They might as well start planning the new bike for 2018, cause this 2017 is junk. Even Ducati beat them like a rented mule.

That had to be embarrassing for both Yamaha riders and very humiliating for Rossi. If it were me, I'd demand the 2016 chassis back. Marquez did it in 2015, why can't they get the 2016 chassis to Rossi and Vinales(if he wants it). I'd tell Lin Jarvis to put the 2017 bike where it belongs and that's in a dumpster in some back alley of Jerez.

Yamaha deserved that beating. They got their ass stretched and I hope they liked it.

How they can go from a great balanced bike in 2016 to this current POS is beyond me. If they keep this kind of performance up and don't do anything kind of changes. I'll call it right now. Rossi won't win the championship, he sure as hell won't win any races this year. Vinales might be lucky to snag a race win here and there, he won't win the championship either. Rossi is going to have his first win less year with Yamaha.


Memo to Yamaha:

How did Honda's ass taste??

[madvlad]

I wouldn't go as far as it's a piece of shit, the first rounds the bike performed very well but whatever they changed for this round obviously bit them in the ass and hard. Incredible how unstable both riders were under braking, you rarely see Rossi rub wide and he ran wide at least 4 times in this race. Even Viñales at T1 there almost lost that thing hard. Not sure if the rules have changed at all about riding on last year's chassis but if indeed the chassis is the problem, they should give the riders the option to use it. Honda took a huge chunk of points off Yamaha this round, if this isn't a wake up call for Jarvis and the Yamaha team then I don't know what else would be. Hell the fact that Lorenzo finished in front of both riders should be concern enough.

[salsashark]

I was happy to see Lorenzo exorcise some of the demons from the Ducati. It was good to see him so happy with the podium finish. Especially after watching him struggle all weekend at COTA.

[madvlad]

While I guess I am somewhat happy with the dude doing okay with the Ducati, I will say that if it wasn't for the Yamaha team struggling, he wouldn't have seen the podium. A good weekend for the guy but doubt he will carry much of this over except for Austria at least this season. We will see though, this may be the ray of light he was looking for.

[The Black Knight]

I wouldn't go as far as it's a piece of shit, the first rounds the bike performed very well but whatever they changed for this round obviously bit them in the ass and hard. Incredible how unstable both riders were under braking, you rarely see Rossi rub wide and he ran wide at least 4 times in this race. Even Viñales at T1 there almost lost that thing hard. Not sure if the rules have changed at all about riding on last year's chassis but if indeed the chassis is the problem, they should give the riders the option to use it. Honda took a huge chunk of points off Yamaha this round, if this isn't a wake up call for Jarvis and the Yamaha team then I don't know what else would be. Hell the fact that Lorenzo finished in front of both riders should be concern enough.

I think I'll go out on a limb and call it a POS at this point. I think they got lucky in Qatar and Argentina. Austin is a whole other beast of a track. Now that we are hitting the Euro tracks, it very well may be the nail in the coffin on a bad bike design for 2017.

I'd like to see them return to the 2016 chassis but that's not going to happen. I remember in testing they mentioned that with the new design of the engine it wouldn't fit into the frame of the 2016 model. So them changing back would just be wishful thinking. Hell, I'd be happy if they just gave Rossi his 2016 back and junk the 2017 he's on.

I mean look what Zarco did. I'm not taking anything away from Zarco, but he's not in Vinales and Rossi's level. He's close but not at their level and won't be for awhile. He was more than in striking distance of the podium. I dare say with Rossi on his old bike he would have dominated this race.

The thing that has always irritated me with Yamaha is their pompous attitude with their bikes. They aren't quite as pompous as Honder per se, but they are close. Though, no one beats Ducati in terms of believing their bike is the end all be all. I just think Yamaha really got it wrong this year for their bike. Which is so weird because why wouldn't they just use last year's bike as a template(which I'm sure they do to an extent).

Considering how fast Rossi was last year, if I were Rossi, I'd of told Yamaha don't change a thing about the bike. It was awesome as hell and very good in terms of pace.

The other piece of this sh*t puzzle I still believe is Michelin's front. Rossi has always been such a front end rider. Relying on heavy braking and front end stability. When Michelin took over, they designed a brilliant rear tire and I guess just felt they didn't need to make a front tire to go with the rear. Whereas Bridgestone by comparison, had the best front tire money could buy but the rear didn't compliment it.

The Michelin's aren't much of a problem for Vinales, he's new and doesn't know any difference. But I'd be willing to put money on Rossi is having a hard time with this new iteration of Michelin front tires. Regardless of all the, "we've found improvements with the front" comments Rossi makes. I think deep down Rossi hates this front tire and it will be the thorn in his side all season long. Love for him to prove me wrong but I don't think he or Yamaha will.

I still stand by my comments, if Yamaha can't figure it out quick(and by quick I mean next race) then they can kiss the championship goodbye for both riders and I dare say they won't win anymore races this season. I think Vinales might snag one or two more wins but Rossi will have his first win less Yamaha season.

Sad to say man, Yamaha have screwed the pooch on this year's bike. Especially after that ass pounding Honda and Ducati and well everyone else just gave them this weekend in Jerez. Their holes are so stretched out you can drive a truck through them.


I was happy to see Lorenzo exorcise some of the demons from the Ducati. It was good to see him so happy with the podium finish. Especially after watching him struggle all weekend at COTA.

Thought it would take a little longer for him to get on the podium but he is making improvements. Better than Yamaha did this weekend for sure.


While I guess I am somewhat happy with the dude doing okay with the Ducati, I will say that if it wasn't for the Yamaha team struggling, he wouldn't have seen the podium. A good weekend for the guy but doubt he will carry much of this over except for Austria at least this season. We will see though, this may be the ray of light he was looking for.

I agree with this. Lorenzo found some mojo but had it not been for Iannone crashing and Crashlow doing what Crashlow does best and that's crash, with team Yamaha sucking hind tit, then he would have been lucky to get a sniff of the top five. Lorenzo is top 6 or 7 for the rest of the season if things settle down for everyone. If Iannone stops wrecking and Crutchlow stops racing, and the wheels don't completely come off for Team Yamaha, then I believe Dovi and Lorenzo will fight for 6th or 7th most of the season.

I really hate to bag on Yamaha cause that's Rossi's team and bike. I love the look of the M1, just hate the brand that's on the side of the tank. But Yamaha needs to flush that 2017 turd quick before it really starts to stink.

[The Black Knight]

Oh yeah one other thing(yeah double post I know). I lost all respect for Miller this weekend. How much of an a**hole do you have to be to not only strike/shove another rider but he did it while Bautista's back was to him? I'm sorry but Miller is a full on pussy for pulling that little stunt. Reminded me of the altercation Aaron Yates had with a privateer rider years back(in Daytona I think). He ended up pushing(headbutting among other things) the other rider after they went down in a crash together. Thankfully Yates has always sucked and his career has wonderfully reflected it. The fact that Yates went all of nowhere couldn't have happened to a better guy. I hope the same fate follows Miller as well.

[madvlad]

Yeah that was super crazy from Miller, sure hope he apologized to Bautista. That was beyond fucked up...

[The Black Knight]

Yeah that was super crazy from Miller, sure hope he apologized to Bautista. That was beyond fucked up...

He did, the even mentioned it during the race. That he said they talked it out. But it's still uncool and he only had "the talk" because I'm sure his team boss and all the MotoGP officials were ready to break it him off. You just can't strike another competitor, it's called racing and the competitive racing at that. Everyone is fighting for the same piece of tarmac. Sure guys get ticked off but man come on. At least come at someone when they are facing you, that shove from the back is just a cheesedick move.

[madvlad]

No matter how frustrated you are, you don't push nor strike another competitor, that's for sure.

[The Black Knight]

No matter how frustrated you are, you don't push nor strike another competitor, that's for sure.

I agree, I think this was a classic example of Miller getting too big for his britches.

At the end of the day though, these racers are primadonna's same as any other celebrity. They have so many people around them telling them they are godlike and sooner or later they start to believe their own bullsh*t.

[salsashark]

I agree, I think this was a classic example of Miller getting too big for his britches.

At the end of the day though, these racers are primadonna's same as any other celebrity. They have so many people around them telling them they are godlike and sooner or later they start to believe their own bullsh*t.

They need to put Miller on an Aprilia or KTM for a few races... That'll humble him up a bit! :lol:

[The Black Knight]

They need to put Miller on an Aprilia or KTM for a few races... That'll humble him up a bit! :lol:

Need to send him back to Moto3 where he belongs....

[The Black Knight]

Well, after that Q session, looks to be a great race for tomorrow. Provided it stays dry and everyone gets away safe in the first few corners, then I'll call this an all Yamaha battle for the win.

It was interesting that while Vinales set the fastest and pole time in qualifying, I couldn't help but notice during the analysis of the fastest sector times that Rossi was 2nd, 2nd, 2nd and 1st in the timing splits. Vinales was 1st and 1st in split 1 and 3 but nowhere in 2 or 4. Rossi looks to be fast and consistent around the whole track.

If it all pans out and my hope is for Rossi to break free quickly, I think he may get his first win of the year.

Such a dramatic turn around from Jerez. Neither of the Yamaha's were on the radar. But Rossi for sure was in a living hell during that race. You can bet some ass got chewed at Yamaha for that performance at Jerez.

My only worry? Zarco

Just hope he keeps it cool and races hard but clean. With this being his home race and right next to Rossi and Vinales, he could totally cock this up and wreck Rossi and/or Vinales out of the race. If he wants to wreck everyone behind them that's fine, just leave the front two alone and this will be a good race.

[VryfastRR]

Wow what a race. That little mistake from Rossi messed up everything for him and I don't think he needs to push that hard, not sure Maverick would have been able to catch him.

[The Black Knight]

That was one exciting and depressing race I've ever seen. And I hate to say this, as I'm a huge Rossi fan. But the guy needs to retire. He's fast as hell but he's also embarrassing now. He's just too old to fight with these younger riders. They can make mistakes and find ways to catch up. He makes mistakes and goes down. He's just too old to run with these younger guys. If that were Rossi at 28 he wouldn't have gone down. Rossi at 38 needs to hang it up.

He's still the G.O.A.T. in my eyes and always will be but damnit man, just stop racing.

Feel bad and really hate to admit it, but Rossi just isn't fast enough anymore. He just flat blew that win....

:(

[VryfastRR]

That was one exciting and depressing race I've ever seen. And I hate to say this, as I'm a huge Rossi fan. But the guy needs to retire. He's fast as hell but he's also embarrassing now. He's just too old to fight with these younger riders. They can make mistakes and find ways to catch up. He makes mistakes and goes down. He's just too old to run with these younger guys. If that were Rossi at 28 he wouldn't have gone down. Rossi at 38 needs to hang it up.

He's still the G.O.A.T. in my eyes and always will be but damnit man, just stop racing.

Feel bad and really hate to admit it, but Rossi just isn't fast enough anymore. He just flat blew that win....

:(

Fighting for a win today and battling for the championship and he should hang it up? :slap:

[The Black Knight]

Fighting for a win today and battling for the championship and he should hang it up? :slap:

Fighting for a win? I saw him lose it and end up on the deck with Zero points today. Losing a fight for the lead to come in 2nd is called battling for a win. Losing the front because he got desperate and tried to catch up, is called not having the speed anymore to keep these other guys behind him.

Marquez can lose the front and crash all he wants. He's still fast and will bounce back. Rossi can't keep up, he just can't do it anymore.

Again, I hate saying it as much as anyone. I'm a huge Rossi fan, I'm all things Rossi. But even I realize he's done. He's not going to win another championship, he's not going to win anymore races either. He's f**king finished!! When you've got a satellite rider on last year's kit staying in front of you, that should be a tell tale sign that you just don't have it anymore.

Sure he got passed Zarco and then pulled away. Shouldn't have been behind him to begin with. Should have passed him long before the race even got going. Rossi doesn't have the speed anymore. Then when push came to shove, he cracked under pressure with Vinales on his ass. Again, the guy doesn't have the speed anymore.

He was super fast last year and look where that got him. A ton of crashes and no consistency. Now he's back to his barely fast enough 2015 self and he's playing prevent defense. Again, he's not fast enough. He should be like Marquez, who's so fast he doesn't need to worry about playing defensive. Marquez just goes out there and wrecks people. Vinales has the same speed.

I want him to retire to save his legacy and save some face. Retire as the G.O.A.T. and not as some "has been, also ran". There is nothing more embarrassing than watching an old long in the tooth champion of days gone by, trying to race with the new elite. Look at how Shumacher did when he came back to F1, yep got his ass scorched. Look at Peyton Manning, had it not been for his defense, his broke and battered ass wouldn't have got that Superbowl ring, cause he sure didn't earn because of his performance.

Rossi is not the Rossi of 2004-2005 or 2008-2009. That Rossi of those years would crush today's opposition. He's not that guy anymore, I wished he still was, I really do. Because he's a people's champion and a real guy that loves the sport.

[madvlad]

He's competitive still man, just made a small mistake running wide on that turn and pushing way too hard to chase Viñales down as he should have settled for 2nd. Bummer but well 23 points behind will be a task and with Dani in front in points too. Lucky for him MM didn't score either or that would've been much worse.

[The Black Knight]

He's competitive still man, just made a small mistake running wide on that turn and pushing way too hard to chase Viñales down as he should have settled for 2nd. Bummer but well 23 points behind will be a task and with Dani in front in points too. Lucky for him MM didn't score either or that would've been much worse.

And that's what my point is man. He's not Marquez who can close down 27 points easy. He's Rossi who is having a hard time finding a win, let alone a nice 2nd place on the podium. He should have just realized he screwed up in the braking zone and let Vinales win. Yeah it sucks, no one wants to let someone win. But he would have been only 7 points back, not 23 now. He won't close the gap, mark my words(not unless Vinales DNF's a couple times). He's done, you could see it in his eyes at the end. That screw up cost him big, it was just like Mugello's engine blow up of last year. It took the wind right out of his sails.

As you pointed out, now that Pedrosa is finding form and is fast. Marquez will always be there and now a super strong Vinales. Yep, Rossi is finished, his title hopes went up in smoke today. He might as well try and get a couple wins, because the championship was just lost today.

I don't see Vinales making a ton more mistakes, not with a fat lead that he has now.

I, do disagree with you though on your first point with him still being competitive. I honestly don't think he is this year. Last year yes, he was the fastest. This year, I'd say he's lucky if he's 4th or 5th fastest. He lost speed over the winter, or something. As it is right now, I'd say Marquez and Vinales are tied for 1st in terms of outright pace and speed, then Pedrosa and then Rossi is there in 4th or 5th with Zarco. Which I can't believe I'm saying that, but yes he's barely any faster than Zarco who's on last year's bike.

You can tell he doesn't have the speed when Vinales sets the lap record on the last freaking lap!!! I mean come on man, last lap with burnt up tires and he still sets the fastest lap. That's the kind of stuff Marquez pulls out of the air, super fast lap on the penultimate or last laps.

I'm sorry, but watching Rossi race this year, is like watching Apollo fight Drago... it's pointless...

Have to give credit to one of the posters over at Crash.net, I think it was said best. Rossi is completely opposite of his early years. When younger, he was fearless, imperious and made zero mistakes. He couldn't be rattled.. Now, he's reverse. Makes mistakes, isn't fast and sure gets rattled easy...

[Gramps]

C'mon man. Rossi has been 2nd in the championship for the last two years. He is going to make mistakes because he's human. The human factor is what makes racing great.

It's a long season and I think Rossi is just as competitive as he was at 28 but the competition is better.

Remember the real point of the show is for entertainment. That race was damn entertaining!

[Kristian]

Zarco is not just a guy who moved up from moto2, if you watched his racing the last couple of years he is amazingly talented!

[madvlad]

Agreed with Tom and yes that race was very good. Zarco definitely put up a he'll of a fight. He will earn Rossi's spot if he keeps this up for sure.

[Gramps]

Agreed with Tom and yes that race was very good. Zarco definitely put up a he'll of a fight. He will earn Rossi's spot if he keeps this up for sure.

Zarco is a lock for his spot if he keeps showing improvement and consistency. He is exciting to watch. Why couldn't anyone else put the Tech 3 on the podium?

[madvlad]

The tech3 got the 2016 package which is very good and just fits Zarco super well, hell even Folger shows great promise. Zarco is a gutsy rider and he may be the next big thing at Yamaha next to Viñales. I thought Cal put the tech3 on the podium couple times?

[madvlad]

Rossi got injured in a motocross incident, hopefully he will be okay to go for next round.

[The Black Knight]

Rossi got injured in a motocross incident, hopefully he will be okay to go for next round.

Why am I not surprised... Well, another year that Rossi WON'T win Mugello.

[madvlad]

Just read that they didn't find any fractures, just sore from the hit but he's expected to be fit for the race

[The Black Knight]

Looks to be another epic battle at the front for the Yamaha guys.

Looking at FP3's race sim times, Rossi for sure has better pace than everyone else. Marquez is next closest and looks good. Vinales doesn't look that impressive, however his pole time was very good. Still, his pole time was not faster than Rossi's FP3 fastest lap, so Rossi looks to have a little left in the tank. Still not sure why he didn't do as well in Q2(yes P2 is good, but still didn't seem all that with it in the session).

Rossi and Marquez both clicked off many 1,47's in FP3, so if tomorrow's pace is in the 1,48's, should be a good battle and a race that Rossi might actually win. Let's see what happens, it's Mugello the race I've been waiting all year for and I'm glad it's finally here.

GO!!!!!!! #46 :up:

[madvlad]

Fucking A man, great race by Dovi and Petrux happy for them. Good placement for Rossi too, salvaging some points granted I'm sure he was hurting bad towards the end there cause he dropped way off. Pretty good race overall.

[VryfastRR]

Great race!!! That start was nuts but the power on the straight from the Ducatis was unmatchable. Great tribute to Nicky.

[The Black Knight]

Very good race!! Congrats to Dovi, that couldn't have happened to a nicer guy in the paddock. He finally got that elusive dry win and he did it in Mugello no less!!

I was laughing hard at the Pedrosa/Crutchlow incident. Dani is trying to apologize and there's Crutchlow being Crutchlow shoving a middle finger in his face. Just confirms that guys a real dick.

The start of the race was intense and thought we might actually get that the whole race, then it settled down into normal pace. Have to say that was a real crappy from Rossi, can't even get on the podium in his home race. Lost the final position to last year's Ducati. Someone needs to pull him aside and let him know that he needs to sell his motocross stuff. If that really is what held him up(his physical condition or lack thereof), then he needs to stop riding dirt. Anyone whose ever ridden dirt will tell you that it's a young man's sport and he needs to stop. Sure riding trails and having some offroad fun is one thing but leave the competition stuff to the McGrath's, Stewart's, and Carmichael's of the world.

Then again, I think it has more to do with mindset than physical condition. He's failed to win a race now for some 17 races. I mean Dovi won a race this year before Rossi. Time to hang that sh*t up....

Congrats to Dovi :up:

[madvlad]

Actually Petrux has the GP17, Redding is the one that has the 16 along with Bautista. I wouldn't say hang it up just yet, he showed pace even with his injury given it was a core related one that affects you very hard mainly under braking on that main straight. He's only 30 points behind which is not the end of the world, not scoring last race is what killed him. Dirt accidents happen as training is necessary mainly if he wants to keep up with these younger and faster riders. I think he did very well today considering the shape he's in.

That tribute to Hayden brought tears to my eyes man, love being part of the 2 wheel community and wouldn't have it any other way.

[The Black Knight]

Actually Petrux has the GP17, Redding is the one that has the 16 along with Bautista. I wouldn't say hang it up just yet, he showed pace even with his injury given it was a core related one that affects you very hard mainly under braking on that main straight. He's only 30 points behind which is not the end of the world, not scoring last race is what killed him. Dirt accidents happen as training is necessary mainly if he wants to keep up with these younger and faster riders. I think he did very well today considering the shape he's in.

That tribute to Hayden brought tears to my eyes man, love being part of the 2 wheel community and wouldn't have it any other way.

My bad, had the two mixed up on the Pramac machines.

The thing is man, even with the pace he had. It still wasn't the greatest. I can't believe I'm going to use a Lorenzo reference but take Assen 2013. That guy had just broke his collarbone and still managed 5th place(with a fresh broken collarbone!!). Rossi takes some hard knocks to the thoracic area and all of a sudden that is the reason he can't place higher than 4th?? Like I say, I had high hopes for him based on this FP3 and FP4 times. Going by his FP times one would have bet on him to fight for the win or at least podium. Dude didn't have a sniff of the podium today.

I want him to win more than anyone but man watching some of these races this year is getting embarrassing. Le Mans was a great race and his best this season. He had the killer instinct, just screwed up on the last lap. Today's race has been like most of them though. Kind of fast but you can tell he's not with it.

And I know, everyone else behind should be embarrassed, I know the whole routine. Yes he's fast but if the guy can't start winning races then he might as well be a 100 points down. He ain't getting it done. He's getting schooled by his new teammate and just about everyone else.

I don't know what his problem is this year but he better pull his head out if he wants even a sniff of this year's championship.

[texlurch]

And I know, everyone else behind should be embarrassed, I know the whole routine. Yes he's fast but if the guy can't start winning races then he might as well be a 100 points down. He ain't getting it done. He's getting schooled by his new teammate and just about everyone else.


"just about everyone else" in what way? He is currently 3rd in the championship, which best I can figure is ahead of "just about everyone else".

So you are saying if he isn't winning every race he should hang it up? Where does that put the rest of the field, many of whom have never won or even placed on the podium?? Marquez has really sucked balls this year... he should for sure retire now; we are not gonna even mention Jorge... jeeeezz.

[The Black Knight]

"just about everyone else" in what way? He is currently 3rd in the championship, which best I can figure is ahead of "just about everyone else".

So you are saying if he isn't winning every race he should hang it up? Where does that put the rest of the field, many of whom have never won or even placed on the podium?? Marquez has really sucked balls this year... he should for sure retire now; we are not gonna even mention Jorge... jeeeezz.

The comment above has more to do with stuff I read over on Crash.net all the time about how Rossi should retire, but then people will say that everyone finishing behind him should retire as well. It's hard to understand what I was conveying over the internet. What I meant was, I've heard it all about what people will say in defense of Rossi. I was one of those people, but I'm starting to change and not be "that guy" anymore. I can't defend someone that is losing so much this year.

You mention Marquez and Lorenzo. Well Marquez and Lorenzo have both won championships in this decade. Rossi hasn't won a championship since '09!! That's right dude, 8... long... ass... years since he's stood at the top.

The other thing is Pedrosa, Marquez, Vinales and Dovi have all won this year(don't really care if Lorenzo ever wins again). But it's going to be 18 races once we arrive in Catalunya since Rossi won a race.

So to your comment that since everyone finishes behind him should they also retire. No, not at all. No one should retire based on their placings and this also includes Rossi. Rossi is still fast and competitive, he's just podium competitive and not "race win" competitive. Which is lame as hell, I want to see him winning races not settling for 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th. Sometimes yes, everyone has to settle for the position they are in. However, Rossi has to settle for those positions because he can't even get a sniff of 1st place. Everyone else that have won, belong in the club they are in for this year. They have all demonstrated their ability to ride to the ragged edge/tip of the spear and win. Rossi has shown that when he rides on the ragged edge, he goes down.

Again, preaching the choir here man. I'm the biggest Rossi fan here. It's always been a running joke with how much of a Rossi fan I am. However, I used to defend the guy and try and explain what has happened in races in the past. No more, I'm tired of that, he just flat out sucks this year and that's how I see it. 2014, 2015 and 2016 Rossi rode well, was fast, competitive and won races. He showed why he belonged at the tip of the spear.

And yes, Rossi has finished in 2nd the last three years in the championship. That's a great achievement and very admirable, especially for a 38 year old racer. However, the harsh reality is 2nd place is the 1st LOSER!! in any championship. It's time for Rossi to go big, or go home. He needs to keep his ass on the porch, because the big dogs are just to fast to run with anymore....

[The Black Knight]

Here's a quick snippet from MotoGP.com on Rossi and comments....

After crashing when training motocross before his home Gran Premio d’Italia Oakley, Valentino Rossi (Movistar Yamaha MotoGP) was even unsure if he would be able to race at Mugello – but hurdle by hurdle the number 46 put on another incredible show at his home GP.

Taking the lead from second on the grid and fighting for the win and podium throughout, Rossi pushed hard to not let the consequences of the crash hold him back, but he wasn’t quite able to hold onto it - fading slightly to fourth at the flag. Nevertheless, the points haul was an impressive one in the circumstances – and now there are a few more days to recover before the Catalan GP, which was the stage for Rossi’s most recent win last season.

Valentino Rossi, P4: "I knew that today‘s race would be more difficult than usual for me. While on the bike I rode well and I didn't have pain, but I was struggling a bit and I knew that 23 laps would be long and hard. I tried my best, I did a perfect start and I led the race for some laps, but I couldn't really ride the way I would have liked to. At the end I tried to stay close to the riders in front, but I did not have the power to attack Danilo. I would have liked a lot to be on the podium today, but there was nothing I could do. It‘s a bit disappointing that I'm not on the podium at Mugello, but seeing where I was few days ago, and the big hit I took, it‘s been a positive weekend all in all. Being here and riding in front of so many fans was a “gift”. Now we have just few days before Catalunya, another important race, so I will try to recover and be in perfect shape in Barcelona."

So see, straight from the horse's mouth, the pain really didn't affect him today, he just couldn't ride the way he wanted too. Which translates into "I just flat f**king sucked today and that's all there is too it."

Also why try to recover and be in perfect shape for Catalunya?? Can't win. So just take some time and heal up normally.

[VryfastRR]

I'm the biggest Rossi fan here. It's always been a running joke with how much of a Rossi fan I am.


https://i.imgflip.com/1qc0f2.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/1qc0f2)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

[The Black Knight]

Now that's funny... :up:

[madvlad]

:lol:

[Gramps]

https://i.imgflip.com/1qc0f2.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/1qc0f2)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

:applause:

[The Black Knight]

Well, ahead of the Catalunya GP here's a little something. Yep, I remember when the guy in yellow "used" to be able to do this...

https://www.pinkbike.com/video/252542/

[madvlad]

He won there last year dude hahaha chillax. It was raining in the session so everyone's times are fucked lol. That 2009 showdown was just one of the best battles in history imo. The old man only trails by 23 points which is not bad considering that DNF and still a long ways to go. Age slowly but surely starts to get you but he still in there figuring it out day by day.

[Gramps]

Well, ahead of the Catalunya GP here's a little something. Yep, I remember when the guy in yellow "used" to be able to do this...

https://www.pinkbike.com/video/252542/

BK-

If your really a Rossi fan, which I doubt, you would realize he is third in a very close points race. He led that points race for several weeks and lost it while fighting for the lead. He has been competitive at every race but one and that was due to tire issues.

He is ahead of the golden boy MM and nobody is saying he is washed up. Why?

Lorenzo can't find the podium if someone put it in a box and handed it to him? Don't hear much about that?

Either quit yer bitchin' and talk about the races or admit your not a Rossi fan so we all know where you stand.

:)

[~Barn~]

Check and mate.

[The Black Knight]

Lol!! Nothing to check or mate. I'll deal with this when I get home...

[The Black Knight]

BK-

If your really a Rossi fan, which I doubt, you would realize he is third in a very close points race. He led that points race for several weeks and lost it while fighting for the lead. He has been competitive at every race but one and that was due to tire issues.

He is ahead of the golden boy MM and nobody is saying he is washed up. Why?

Lorenzo can't find the podium if someone put it in a box and handed it to him? Don't hear much about that?

Either quit yer bitchin' and talk about the races or admit your not a Rossi fan so we all know where you stand.

:)

You're right man, apparently you got me. I must be terrible and no fan of VR46 at all. Oh wait, what are these??

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/20170609_165059_zpstuisldwu.jpg

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh581/DNA_SWIRL_777/Stuff/R1GO1_zpsfjesot4o.jpg

What is all that?? Oh I know, that's $1000+ dollars in helmets alone, two miniature bikes, two hats, a book and oh yeah, last year's Valentino Rossi The Game. And what's that?? A '99 Yamaha R1 with a 2004 M1 graphics scheme with a big gigantic #46 on the tail seat cowl. Oh yeah, still have a poster of him on his M1 from the 2005 Laguna Seca GP on the wall.

You're right, I've only followed him as a racer since 2001-2002ish. So roughly 15 years of watching my greatest inspiration on a motorcycle race.

I was there when he was at Honda, made his epic switch to Yamaha, then bring Yamaha 4 championships. I was there as a fan when he broke his leg at Mugello, then when he made his regrettable switch to Ducati for winless two years. I was still there as a fan when he returned to Yamaha and went on to claim a victory at Assen. I was still there as a fan when he clawed his way back to the sharp end of the spear in 2014, 2015 and 2016.

I think this person from crash.net summed it best after the Mugello race a few weeks ago.

iSayuSay (http://www.crash.net/motorsports/have_your_say_author/92964/1/isayusay.html)
"June 04, 2017 6:02 PM
Last Edited 3 days ago

That's the keyword. Marc is the reigning champion, Lorenzo won the title in 2015. And Rossi hasn't won a single title since 2009. And this year he's even struggling for 3rd.

If you're a true Rossi fan, do you love to see your idol being a loser for the last 8 years? Settling for P2 or P3 just to survive each season. Would you like to see your idol struggle for 4th or 5th this year, played around by those younger riders? Are you a real fan?

I would love to see #46 win races, and TITLE. Not just juggling around for podium. Rossi is not just some random rider. If he cannot win, might as well not see him on track anymore. Be a chairman of Dorna, head of Yamaha team or whatever. See? that's a real Rossi fan would hope for."



I agree with much of what that person said. Can't say as I want to see him as a chairman for DORNA, that company is a joke.


So now we come to 2017. Rossi is having a terrible year. He's not competitive and he's hurt. There was even a story of him saying he would have liked a break after Mugello to recover. I mean come on man, the Rossi of old was dying to get back on the bike when he broke his leg in 2010. Fast forward to now, where he gets bucked off a dirtbike and takes a shot to the ribs and now he's wanting a break??

What the hell happened to the Valentino Rossi, I've spent 15 years watching???

So yes, after 15 years and countless races of watching him ride I think I've earned the right to comment/critique his performance just a little. You see I remember all those seasons with him dominating and winning race after race. He's not doing that anymore. It's time for him to go, he cannot win anymore. It's time for him to hang it up. I'm going to use a cheesy Top Gun reference here and say, he's lost his edge and he's holding on too tight, it's time for him to turn in his wings. 2015 was the MIG that really screwed him up and he may not make it back to the carrier. And to use another cheesy reference, it is like watching Apollo fight Drago.... yes, Rossi is getting his ass kicked that bad. Someone needs to throw in the towel and soon. He doesn't have that Eye of the Tiger anymore(hasn't had it for a long time).

You see, I'm such a hardcore fan of VR46, that at this point I'd much rather see him retire and let his legacy live on. For him to be remembered as the G.O.A.T.... Rather then watch him troll around for the occasional podium, or 4th's, 5th's or 10th places. I don't want to watch the racer I've looked up to for so long when it comes to motorcycles, struggle the way he is this year. When a racer of his caliber is struggling to get past a Tech3 bike, then yes he's struggling. And it's embarrassing to watch.

All that's left now is for his legacy to take even more of a beating. To be even more of an embarrassment throughout the rest of 2017.

Rossi has done more in his last few years with Yamaha than most of his championship winning seasons. He's proven to everyone that even being in his late 30's he's been competitive. He came very close to winning the championship in 2015. He's shown that no matter the age, the passion is what burns and what pushes you to go on. However, everyone runs empty on drive at some point in life.....

[Gramps]

Firstly know that I'm just giving you a hard time about this, nothing personal at all. Just observations.

Secondly, let me explain that your ability to buy helmets and put stickers on a bike doesn't make you a Rossi fan. I've approached people in the united states and abroad that had on Rossi hats or shirts and they didn't even know who Rossi is. So as disappointing as that is it really doesn't sway my opinion one way or another.

As far as your opinion on his level of competition currently that is where we differ. Or possibly we don't, you are just having a hard time coming to grips with the fact he isn't going to win race after race like he has in the past. I already made the case for why but I'll point out a few things for the sake of discussion. He has struggled in qualifying and practice but come race day he is usually at the front. He is still one of the most respected riders in the paddock and in the world. He has been second in points and won races in the previous two season's. So how is that not competitive? I'm sure there are several other riders that would love to be in his seat at this moment. You even admit in your post he has been competitive he just hasn't won the championship. Do you realize how many things have to come together to win a championship at any race level? How hard it is to put a season together? This is the point with your posts that don't make sense. You even flip flop in your post above. Stick to one opinion so we can all follow along:lol:

My other point is possibly to big for you to understand or for me to explain but I'll give it a shot. The 30,000 foot view is that I'm a fan of MotoGP and every rider to some degree. These riders are the fastest, most talented riders in the world. They have earned their seat through competition and have to perform to keep their seat. I for example, enjoyed seeing Pedx beat Rossi at Mugello. Did you see the sheer joy in that guys face? How was that not great? Yeah I would agree I would have shuffled that podium a bit to get Rossi on it but I still can't argue about the results. So that point of view is how I watch the races. Every rider is fast and every rider is more talented than I am on a motorcycle so I watch in awe of the best riders in the world with my favorite always being Rossi. So for you to be a Rossi fan but always criticizing his riding ability doesn't make sense to me. His legacy isn't taking a beating. Not to the true MotoGP fan.

Rossi will always be the GOAT because of what he has accomplished and what he continues to accomplish. Not because of how many races he wins in this particular season or the next. He is the only rider that will be able to even achieve some of the things he has because the class or bike isn't even available to be ridden anymore. He brings his charisma to the paddock and the organization like few other riders.

[Gramps]

Now on to what's important.

What do you think about all the fuss over the new chicane instead of the F1 chicane?

The riders are all wanting it changed from the sound of it.

[The Black Knight]

Firstly know that I'm just giving you a hard time about this, nothing personal at all. Just observations.

Secondly, let me explain that your ability to buy helmets and put stickers on a bike doesn't make you a Rossi fan. I've approached people in the united states and abroad that had on Rossi hats or shirts and they didn't even know who Rossi is. So as disappointing as that is it really doesn't sway my opinion one way or another.

As far as your opinion on his level of competition currently that is where we differ. Or possibly we don't, you are just having a hard time coming to grips with the fact he isn't going to win race after race like he has in the past. I already made the case for why but I'll point out a few things for the sake of discussion. He has struggled in qualifying and practice but come race day he is usually at the front. He is still one of the most respected riders in the paddock and in the world. He has been second in points and won races in the previous two season's. So how is that not competitive? I'm sure there are several other riders that would love to be in his seat at this moment. You even admit in your post he has been competitive he just hasn't won the championship. Do you realize how many things have to come together to win a championship at any race level? How hard it is to put a season together? This is the point with your posts that don't make sense. You even flip flop in your post above. Stick to one opinion so we can all follow along:lol:

My other point is possibly to big for you to understand or for me to explain but I'll give it a shot. The 30,000 foot view is that I'm a fan of MotoGP and every rider to some degree. These riders are the fastest, most talented riders in the world. They have earned their seat through competition and have to perform to keep their seat. I for example, enjoyed seeing Pedx beat Rossi at Mugello. Did you see the sheer joy in that guys face? How was that not great? Yeah I would agree I would have shuffled that podium a bit to get Rossi on it but I still can't argue about the results. So that point of view is how I watch the races. Every rider is fast and every rider is more talented than I am on a motorcycle so I watch in awe of the best riders in the world with my favorite always being Rossi. So for you to be a Rossi fan but always criticizing his riding ability doesn't make sense to me. His legacy isn't taking a beating. Not to the true MotoGP fan.

Rossi will always be the GOAT because of what he has accomplished and what he continues to accomplish. Not because of how many races he wins in this particular season or the next. He is the only rider that will be able to even achieve some of the things he has because the class or bike isn't even available to be ridden anymore. He brings his charisma to the paddock and the organization like few other riders.

Oh it's fine, don't mind you giving me a hard time. I'm just calling it as I see it.

Actually yeah, having all the Rossi stuff does make me a fan. Why? because I don't have stuff from other riders. Rossi is the only one that I've actively sought to buy his stuff.

We can agree to disagree on his level of performance this year. But see for all your conjecture of how it all has to come together to win a championship. One glaring thing that is missing from all that(yet in a round about way did allude too) is the fact that he doesn't win race after race. And that, is how championships are won. You have to win races in order to win a championship. And yes, I'll get flamed for it, but if you win a championship without winning races. It doesn't mean you're the champion, just means you go lucky(cough Alzamora cough). Because a champion has to win races, must win races in order to take maximum points from their competitors.

So yes, while getting 2nd place for three years in a row in the MotoGP championship is a monumental achievement. At the end of the day though it really isn't. It's first loser. Somewhat similar to the olympics for gold, silver and bronze. You actually win bronze but you lose for silver.

I do realize it's hard to put together a season(it's even harder for Rossi). However, doesn't seem hard for Marquez or even Lorenzo. They seem to manage just fine. Reason?? They win races, which makes putting together a championship season a lot easier if you can win races. I'm not saying the guy who wins the most races will always win the championship, that is never the case(injuries, crashing, mechanical failures all factor in). However, winning races and the ability to win races is what makes a champion's life easier in the battle for the championship.

I don't disagree with you on him being a very respected rider in the paddock. Yes, he's won races and scored points in the last four seasons(13-16). However, he ain't looking so good this year.

See I'm not flip flopping, I'm breaking it all down. I can break down Rossi's last four season and pinpoint the exact moment when he lost the chance to fight for a championship.

2013 - returns to Yamaha, wins one race(Assen), isn't competitive most of the season, takes 6 podiums
2014 - wins two races(Misano, Phillip Island), no one was going to take the crown from Marquez that year(he won 13 races). Rossi begins his streak of consecutive podiums for 18 races
2015 - wins four races(Qatar, Argentina, Assen and Silverstone). Rossi's real chance at the championship. Point(s) where he loses the championship. His royal screw up in Misano(wet race, stayed too long on wets), Sachsenring(Pedrosa beats him for 2nd place, taking a crucial 4 points away), Aragon(again Pedrosa, beats him for position and takes away more crucial points), finally Malaysia(really do I have to explain this one?? All I can say is point where he got screwed out of the championship).
2016 - wins two races(Jerez, Catalunya) Rossi is fast(probably the fastest on the grid) this year but has many, many mistakes. Crashes at Austin, Assen, and his engine blow up in Mugello ruined his chance for the title. He had 4 DNF's that year.
2017 - To date: 0 wins, one DNF, one 10th(which might as well be a DNF), and a crummy 4th at Mugello, with 3 podiums only. This year of hell ain't over yet.

So see I just broke down five years so far in just a few sentences. I could go into even greater detail but those are just synopsis of how the years turned out. Again, I can only do that for Rossi. I can't do that for any other rider as I don't follow them as close. Sure I can tell you how others did if I can remember. I for the most part remember where Rossi places(given a current season, past seasons I only remember wins).

On to your 3rd point, the 30000ft view of MotoGP. I wholly agree with you. I really enjoyed seeing Dovi take his first win in the dry, and at Mugello no less. Was great to see Petrucci get a podium. That guy is fast and deserves it. He really shows why he should be on the team and why he's relevant, which is more than I can say for Redding(a real turd).

I was happy to see Pedrosa win in Jerez. Always like Dani as a racer, he's fast and consistent just injury prone his whole career. Wished Iannone was doing better, that guy is fast just doesn't have what it takes to ride that Suzuki fast. I think he was more made for the Ducati and that's all he knew up to this year.

I do disagree with your comment of, all of these riders in MotoGP being the fastest and most talented. I think there are a few WSBK riders(Rea, Davies, VD Mark, maybe Sykes) that should be here in MotoGP and some MotoGP riders(Redding, Crutchlow, Miller, Rabat, Lowes and Smith) that belong in WSBK and on really crappy superbike teams.

Very much agree with you, these guys are talented and way more than I am. However, as a fan I do have an eye for racing and talent. And can see when riders aren't pulling their own. When their talents are starting to diminish and when it's possibly time for them to move on.

I think the hang up you have is that I'm critical of Rossi's performance this year. Which is totally true, I'm not lying or hiding that fact. I was completely 100% behind last year, and the year before, and the year before and so on. This year is the first year, I've seen him not riding very well. He's tanking in terms of abilities. His first three podiums this year were nice and all but look at the last four races(including this current one for tomorrow). I don't know what happened to him but a switch got turned off. Cause since Jerez he's sucked it up bad. I don't even consider Le Mans a good race for him. Sure he was battling for the lead but he still went down. And remember, "to finish first, one must first finish". Then that laughable ride from leading then to 4th in Mugello. Uhhh, that's going backwards. It's fine when Lorenzo does it, I don't care where he ends up. But Rossi doesn't need to be going backwards in a race(not if he wants that 10th title).

Lastly, yes his legacy is taking a beating. Just look at this mornings qualifying grid positions. I won't deny that he has loads of charisma and presence that no one in MotoGP will ever touch. He's the people's champion and always will be. Just think that it's time for the people's champion to really evaluate where he's going to be, because watching him troll around for low positions is not enjoyable and somewhat painful for those fans of his.




Now on to what's important

What do you think about all the fuss over the new chicane instead of the F1 chicane?

The riders are all wanting it changed from the sound of it.

I think they should go back to the F1 chicane. The new configuration really put a nasty kink in the track. Only slowed them down by around a second a lap. But I agree with what some of the commentators were saying during the FP's. If someone where to go down there, it could be potentially a trainwreck in progress. Bike and rider could end up back on the racing line and pose a danger to everyone else. Also with how fast everyone is braking for that corner, it could be a potential pile up as well if a couple riders came together.

I think it's better that they decided to go back to the F1 layout. A little more stopping distance and strings them out just a bit.

[Gramps]

BK-

Your logic just doesn't make sense to me.


Your a Rossi fan because you bought his replica stuff? or Did you buy his replica stuff because your a fan?


You are a MotoGP fan but not a fan of how Rossi is performing? or Your a Rossi fan but don't like how competitive MotoGP is currently?

Your disappointed because Rossi doesn't win the championship every year? or Your emotional because you feel like he should win everything because you have been a fan so long and spent way too much money on helmets and games?

Your critical of his riding but admit you couldn't come close to his level of performance?

Your upset because he had an incident at LeMans battling for the lead? So exactly how do you want him to win races if he doesn't battle for the lead?

You really don't need to answer these questions. Your not going to change my opinion and I'm not making any headway getting you to consider any other opinion for yourself so just think of these as rhetorical. Probably the only reason I'm even posting this is because I'm bored waiting on the AC guy and your easy.

[The Black Knight]

Dude, you're killing me here. It's you're, not your. Lol!!!

I'll comment when I get home. Out and about already and can't type long responses on my phone.

[The Black Knight]

BK-

Your(<----correct use) logic just doesn't make sense to me. Figured it wouldn't...


Your(You're) a Rossi fan because you bought his replica stuff? or Did you buy his replica stuff because your a fan? Bought the stuff because I'm a fan..


You are a MotoGP fan but not a fan of how Rossi is performing? or Your(You're) a Rossi fan but don't like how competitive MotoGP is currently? Love MotoGP and how competitive it is, however Rossi is under-performing(this year).

Your(You're) disappointed because Rossi doesn't win the championship every year? or Your(You're) emotional because you feel like he should win everything because you have been a fan so long and spent way too much money on helmets and games? Not disappointed he doesn't win every year, this isn't the case at all. He's been competitive up until this season. Which is how it should be. A rider should show why they belong and he has shown why he is competitive, until now. As for this year, yeah not so much.

Your(You're) critical of his riding but admit you couldn't come close to his level of performance? Yep, still can critique someone based on what I see. This year's performance isn't anywhere near the previous years performances. Keep in mind I'm not critical of his actual riding. More or less his performance in the races.

Your(You're) upset because he had an incident at LeMans battling for the lead? So exactly how do you want him to win races if he doesn't battle for the lead? His challenge against Vinales was some of the best riding I've seen him do this season, right up until the point he went down. If you can't win, settle for 20pts instead of a zero. Challenging for a win and coming in 2nd is admirable and a worthy fight. Challenging for a win, crashing out and getting zero points is counterproductive and only makes life harder in a championship. Again, "To finish first, first you must finish.." <----Don't know how many times I have to explain that.

You really don't need to answer these questions. Your(You're) not going to change my opinion and I'm not making any headway getting you to consider any other opinion for yourself so just think of these as rhetorical. Probably the only reason I'm even posting this is because I'm bored waiting on the AC guy and your(you're) easy.

:)

[The Black Knight]

Big congrats to Dovi!! That guy deserves that one. He's riding so high right now and to be able to do something that hasn't been done since Stoner was at Ducati(win two back to back races). Saved his tires the whole race and kept his cool. Good rides from Marquez and Pedrosa. Thought, Pedro had a little better pace but dropped back. Even Lorenzo was on a yo-yo for lap times and got back to 4th. Lots of run offs for everyone in T1.

Good race I enjoyed it...

[madvlad]

Fucking A Man, Dovi on a mission and shoving it up Lorenzos and Ducatis ass. Hope he wins the title this season.

[Gramps]

Agreed it was a good race. I hate that some of these races are being decided on tires but I guess you could say that about all the races in every series. Some bikes(manufacturer's) are better it seems on low traction. Last year's M1 seems to be a better package on low traction.

It sure is mixing up the championship!

You know the three of us should meet up one morning somewhere to watch the race. We are all up at the same time it seems:lol:

[The Black Knight]

Fucking A Man, Dovi on a mission and shoving it up Lorenzos and Ducatis ass. Hope he wins the title this season.

Oh yes, I much prefer to see Dovi doing well over Lorenzo. Still can't comprehend Lorenzo's yo-yo thing throughout the race. Usually when tires drop off, they drop off and that's it. For him, seems they dropped then came back. Could have been a fuel load thing, where once he was able to burn off X-amount of fuel, the bike balanced out and he was able to push better.

I honestly think Dovi is a title contender now. His win in Mugello wasn't a flash in the pan and I think he's in some good form. The way he's riding is meticulous and he really saves those tires. He's basically riding the way Lorenzo used to ride the Yamaha, faultless.


Agreed it was a good race. I hate that some of these races are being decided on tires but I guess you could say that about all the races in every series. Some bikes(manufacturer's) are better it seems on low traction. Last year's M1 seems to be a better package on low traction.

It sure is mixing up the championship!

You know the three of us should meet up one morning somewhere to watch the race. We are all up at the same time it seems:lol:

That was always my main worry when Michelin was brought in and we saw some of the debacles from last season and it seems those same gremlins have translated over into this year's championship. Michelin just isn't up to the same level as Bridgestone was at. The fronts were so good that you could deal with a crappy rear on the Bridgestones and still make good races. Now, with bad fronts that's where all the riders get their confidence from. If that front tire isn't doing it's job, doesn't matter how awesome that rear tire is.

Last year's M1 is a better bike all around compared to the 2017 version.

I'm always up early, blame it on my profession. Least now where I work, I'm not in til 7am, my old job started at 6am. So I've always been an early riser. With it being so ingrained in my now, I get up usually around 530 on weekends without an alarm on. If I sleep in til 630 or 7am that's rare for me. I like being up early and getting a jump on the day, even if I don't do much for that day. Still like getting all I can out of the daylight. There were times I used to get up to watch the Moto3 and Moto2 races and then said forget that. 530 on a Sunday is one thing, but I'm not getting up at 3am for Moto3 LOL!, I'll just catch the races later.

[The Black Knight]

Those of you with Playstation Vue accounts, if you're not aware. Sony has dropped BeIN Sports from their line up. Citing differences in contract negotiations. Luckily, I do the MotoGP subscription but usually watch Moto3 and Moto2 on BeIn later in the day as I don't feel like hooking my laptop back up to my tv for streaming.

Just a heads up people, no more BeIN sports for Playstation Vue users...

[Kristian]

It's "citing", not siting. ; )

[The Black Knight]

It's "citing", not siting. ; )

Yeah, my lovely samsung likes to play tricks with words on me. One of my phone's favorite things to do to me, is when I type the word "and" for some reason it always changes it over to "ans"... I don't get it.. I'll change it to reflect the correct word..

[madvlad]

Man I am seriously loving the unpredictability of this season, it truly is anybody's game :lol: awesome qualifier session. If Zarco keeps this up I am sure he will take Rossis' seat after 18'

[madvlad]

Dude what a race, Assen never fails to deliver. Holy chet that had me at the edge of my bed man. This is what is all about, what a showdown! Rossi back in contention again and Dovi leads the charge. Bummer for Viñales though

[The Black Knight]

Dude what a race, Assen never fails to deliver. Holy chet that had me at the edge of my bed man. This is what is all about, what a showdown! Rossi back in contention again and Dovi leads the charge. Bummer for Viñales though

Yeah, I'm going to have to watch it. Did it come on way earlier?? Got up my normal time(545ish) and the race was over and Moto2 was coming on. Didn't think they changed it up from the normal time, then again it is Assen.

[madvlad]

They decided to go on before Moto2 so 5 am was the start time

[Gramps]

Crow will be on the menu in a variety of places today!!!

Hell of a race and if anyone thinks a certain someone is not competitive anymore they must not be paying attention.

GOAT!

[The Black Knight]

Crow will be on the menu in a variety of places today!!!

Hell of a race and if anyone thinks a certain someone is not competitive anymore they must not be paying attention.

GOAT!

Wouldn't quite count the chickens before they hatch on this one. I'm also elated that Rossi took his first win this year(should have been his second), but let's see if he can continue this momentum. Heading into Germany, Sachsenring has always been Honda territory and I'm sure we'll also see Marquez back with a vengeance in a track he goes well at.

If and that's a big "IF" this new chassis does fix the issues Rossi has been having all season, then yes he should be way more competitive and possibly out to take a few more wins. I can't help but wonder if it's a little bit too late though. Now we're at the half way more of the season(in Germany) and it's taken the boys in Blue this long to figure out. The one saving grace for Rossi and everyone else(besides Vinales) is the fact that Vinales crashed. So now we have four riders within striking distance of the title, which bodes well for the rest of the season and the championship as a whole.

Now, had we seen a full dry race today, then I would have to say Rossi would have won by about a 3 second lead. Similar to his win in 2013. He for sure was in a class of his own today, and I think much of that had to do with the Hard rear. Rossi always has done better with harder construction tires and needed the chassis to make that happen.

Have to agree with Rossi on Zarco. Zarco needs to stop riding like a dick, he's had way too many contacts this season with riders. His aggressiveness is good, the fact that he's not smart enough to stop pulling off dumb passes is bad. I agree, that "rubbin is racin" when it's hard and fair, however he just hits people blatantly. They kept saying the whole race that Rossi ran wide, however if you look at Marquez and Petrucci behind them, both Marquez and Petrucci took somewhat similar lines to Rossi. Rossi was the widest of the quartet but freaking Zarco just has to put his bike where it doesn't belong. Look at the pass Rossi put on Petrucci, it was clean and hard and with rain on the track. Look at how Dovi, Crutchlow and Marquez diced it up. All clean and hard passes in the rain as well.

I like Zarco but he sure makes it hard to like him when he does stuff like this. Then you can tell he lost his cool because he got a speeding through pitlane penalty ride through. So you know he was hot under the collar because of the contact. So yes, he needed to be slapped down a rung today.

What happened to Pedrosa today?? Guy was close to a full minute behind and all of nowhere in this race.

Must say, I had such a big grin seeing Lorenzo get lapped by Rossi and Petrucci. Just warms my heart to see Lorenzo getting such great results for Ducati. I think he can do better next race and possibly get even dead last in the race. I'll have to say it, I think Ducati made a mistake in letting Iannone go for Lorenzo. I believe that with the Ducati seemingly going well this year, we may have even seen Iannone winning a race or two as well. He's certainly faster than Dovi on the Ducati and I think they let the wrong guy go. Be nice to see Iannone and Lorenzo swap seats. The Suzuki needs someone who works really well with smooth and agile bikes and I think Lorenzo would do well on the Suzuki. Iannone just doesn't care that he's on the Suzuki and you can tell by his riding. He's fast but not in the alien club like last year.

So let's see what the rest of the season brings for Rossi. Would love to see him win a few more but I'll save the jubilation for later when I see some more consistent results and/or wins.

[madvlad]

Seems like Rossi is much more comfortable with the new chassis they tested, all weekend he was actually rather good so I see him doing well moving forward. Germany has always been Honda territory but hope Yamaha can find a good set up to follow through and rival them though it won't be an easy task plus also got the satellite teams breathing down their necks and throwing a wrench on the championship program as much as I enjoy the badass ongoing battles but in the end there's no satellite rider even close to the top right now. Both Honda and Yamaha need to also think of Austria and given a Ducati is leading the charge and they own that track, they need to try to limit the point damage as much as they can and finish in front of Dovi. Hell of a race though, still can't get over how good that was.... Yeah everyone had Lorenzo already up there after his luck in Jerez and shit but it goes to show again how far away from the goal he still is and I'm just glad that Dovi is shoving it up management's and Lorenzos ass with his results and showing Ducati that he has been the man for the job all along. Hell he did all the horse work for Lorenzo to come reap it... oh wait... what does that remind you of.... lol

[The Black Knight]

Seems like Rossi is much more comfortable with the new chassis they tested, all weekend he was actually rather good so I see him doing well moving forward. Germany has always been Honda territory but hope Yamaha can find a good set up to follow through and rival them though it won't be an easy task plus also got the satellite teams breathing down their necks and throwing a wrench on the championship program as much as I enjoy the badass ongoing battles but in the end there's no satellite rider even close to the top right now. Both Honda and Yamaha need to also think of Austria and given a Ducati is leading the charge and they own that track, they need to try to limit the point damage as much as they can and finish in front of Dovi. Hell of a race though, still can't get over how good that was.... Yeah everyone had Lorenzo already up there after his luck in Jerez and shit but it goes to show again how far away from the goal he still is and I'm just glad that Dovi is shoving it up management's and Lorenzos ass with his results and showing Ducati that he has been the man for the job all along. Hell he did all the horse work for Lorenzo to come reap it... oh wait... what does that remind you of.... lol

Yeah I agree, if this new chassis is to Rossi's liking and ends up suiting him well, then I do see better results on the horizon. Be interesting to see how well the chassis works in Sachsenring and Austria.

I also think that Austria is going to be another stomping by Ducati. If Yamaha and Honda can't figure out how to keep up despite the lack of HP's, then it really is Ducati's to lose. Iannone left everyone for dead last year there, so I'd imagine Dovi wanting to get an easy win will try and do the same. Be interesting to see how Lorenzo goes in Austria.

Could very well be a track where Yamaha will just be in damage limitation mode. I think the Honda's will go better than the Yamaha's will at Austria.

LOL!! I agree, Lorenzo was built up to be the end all be all for Ducati. He's really turning into a turd this year on that bike. I said that back when he got the podium in Jerez. Yeah, he got a podium sooner than I thought he would, but given the fact that both Rossi and Vinales suffered, with others crashing out, then Lorenzo was lucky to see a top 7 finish.

Want to see something funny check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_MotoGP_season
Scroll down to the Riders Standings/Scoring System graph and check out the all the DNF's/RET's on the map. Talk about a year of attrition for everyone. You can really tell that this season has been an up and down one for everyone. No one on the map is consistent.

I think the strong satellite teams are good for the sport but bad for the championship. Good because we need to see more and more riders being competitive and actually getting podiums and wins. It shows that there are guys that might not get the TV time but are still very fast and racy. Gives the them more motivation and catches the eye of prospective factory teams for the future. Where they are bad is that they aren't always consistent and they scavenge points off the leading riders, the guys in contention for the title. They sometimes tend to rider over their abilities and may cause unwanted incidents. For as fast as Petrucci, Zarco, Bautista and Crutchlow are, they aren't within a sniff of the title and really aren't in the fight. Which is good and bad, good cause they have nothing to lose and bad cause they really have nothing to lose. So they will go for broke every time and might end up taking out someone who is actually fighting for the title. Bautista was the worst at this a few years ago. He was always taking someone out of the race. Iannone is another rider who collects others when he goes down.

Then you have to gauge the actual talent of the satellite guys. Without a doubt Zarco is fast and looks to have tons of potential. He rides that Tech3 Yamaha very well. But he falls back and lacks stamina somewhat. And as fast as Zarco is, he still in my opinion is no where near Sete Gibernau's league in terms of making a satellite back fast. That was something both Gibernau and Melandri were capable of doing on their Telefonica Movistar Honda's back in the 990 era.

I'm sure I'll get flamed but I still don't think the satellite riders of today are as fast as the satellite riders of yester-year. And what I mean by that is sure in terms of sheer speed and lap times, the riders of today are faster in every way. What they lack, is the character that makes them fast. They are more robotic fast, than organic fast. Today's satellite riders just lack that "IT" factor. The old 990 era satellite guys for the most part, had that "it factor". Again, today the bikes are faster than ever and the riders are faster than ever. But it still doesn't mean they have what it takes to make the bikes they are on super fast, the way the old school satellite guys did on their bikes.

Sorry, off on a wild tangent there....


p.s.
yeah Lorenzo loves coming in to a bike that has been developed well. Saves him all the work.... Not only did Dovi help with the bike, I believe much of the potential that has been unlocked has to do with Stoner.

[Spiderman]

Dude what a race, Assen never fails to deliver. Holy chet that had me at the edge of my bed man. This is what is all about, what a showdown! Rossi back in contention again and Dovi leads the charge. Bummer for Viñales though
Seriously! My heart was pounding! Un-freaking-believable how close that was, all the way down to the checkered flag!

[salsashark]

^^ Agreed with all above... AND where in the Hell did Crutchlow come from?!

[madvlad]

Dude Crutchlow and Dovi were hauling some serious ass. Guess also you gotta figure that as Rossi slowed down it also made Petrux and Marquez slow their pace due to the sprinkling and battles back and forth so that probably helped them too. Man can't wait for this weekend already and then a month without GP.... booooo!

P.S>>>> for those of us who watch live, the GP race will be at 6 am our time (televised by BeIn sports for those interested or if you want to record it) and will be the last of the day unlike this past weekend FYI.

[The Black Knight]

Dude Crutchlow and Dovi were hauling some serious ass. Guess also you gotta figure that as Rossi slowed down it also made Petrux and Marquez slow their pace due to the sprinkling and battles back and forth so that probably helped them too. Man can't wait for this weekend already and then a month without GP.... booooo!

P.S>>>> for those of us who watch live, the GP race will be at 6 am our time (televised by BeIn sports for those interested or if you want to record it) and will be the last of the day unlike this past weekend FYI.

For sure Rossi dropped his pace immensely when the rain started to come. He was in the 1:34's to 1:35's most of the race and then the rain came and immediately he dropped to the 1:37's and 1:38's. So when you drop off 3 to 4 seconds the competition sees that as a dangling carrot and rushes to catch up thinking there is a problem. Also Rossi is fighting for the championship, so he was in the frame of mind to not throw it down the road like he did in Le Mans.

Had the rain held off and we had a full dry race, I still believe that Rossi would have continued to clear off and won by at least three seconds. He was taking chunks of time out of Petrucci before the rain hit. So it was inevitable that Rossi was going to clear off. Even if the others managed to find a little something extra, he would have managed the gap til the end.

But that's what makes rain races or the threat of rain races so interesting. It becomes anyone's ball game at that point. Dovi wanted another win to make it three in a row. Petrucci wants that maiden win and a massive confidence boost. Rossi needed(not wanted) that win in order to keep his championship alive and prove he's still got the speed. Marquez and Crutchlow were just along for the ride that race but gave us a great ending.

[madvlad]

Sooooo consensus... who here would like to maybe get together at 3 lions or something for maybe the Japan, Sepang or the Australian GP or all 3 when that time comes around and watch it live? They're usually at around 11pm to midnight or so, I'm sure the owner would be more than glad to have us if we reserve with time and all. They hosted the Australian F1 race

[The Black Knight]

Sooooo consensus... who here would like to maybe get together at 3 lions or something for maybe the Japan, Sepang or the Australian GP or all 3 when that time comes around and watch it live? They're usually at around 11pm to midnight or so, I'm sure the owner would be more than glad to have us if we reserve with time and all. They hosted has the Australian F1 race

Cool idea man and would be fun, I'll have to pass though. Having to drive back to the Springs at 1am after the race isn't my idea of fun, especially being on Colfax at that time of night. Good luck though, should have some folks turn out for that :up:

[madvlad]

Shot of 5 hour energy, you'll be fine.

[madvlad]

Man that mechanical issue on the A bike fucked Rossi. Hopefully it stays dry for the next practice session later on today cause that new chassis is working wonders for him and Viñales obviously the B bike is on that crap chassis and not even with the soft rear option he could improve his times. It is truly incredible that .500 separates nearly the top 10, some close times and pace on this one even with the new track surface.

[~Barn~]

That could be fun.

[madvlad]

Not the most entertaining of races but man hat off to Folger, what a race by him and to keep up with Marquez that well. Hell of an earned podium spot. This championship is anyone's at this point.

[Gramps]

Not the most entertaining of races but man hat off to Folger, what a race by him and to keep up with Marquez that well. Hell of an earned podium spot. This championship is anyone's at this point.

Yeah the Honda's just have that track figured out. Folger was riding out of his mind and hopefully that will give him some confidence going forward and we will have another rider in the mix. Danillo seems like he is a little crazy and risky at times but the tires played a big role again. 2nd to 12th is a big slide. Lorenzo had the same thing happen but he has more issues than Ducati can even fix at this point. Dovi lost the tires towards the end as well and slipped from first to third in the championship. Crazy!

The championship is close and this season may go all the way to the last race to decide a champion which means the fans win and the series gets stronger.

[The Black Knight]

Not the most entertaining of races but man hat off to Folger, what a race by him and to keep up with Marquez that well. Hell of an earned podium spot. This championship is anyone's at this point.
Yeah I missed 2/3's of the race due to sleeping in. Only caught about 7 laps worth of racing. Good to see Folger keeping up with Marquez and he got his first podium. Knew this one was Marc's to lose. Insane how with a race win he leapfrogs everyone and is leading going into the summer break. Good to see Pedrosa back and in contention for the podium.

Not much to say about factory Team Yamaha, can't really congratulate 4th and 5th places for a factory team. And I knew last week's results weren't going to be the norm, just a flash in the pan. Seems to me(again I'll have to rewatch the race since I missed 2/3's of it) that Vinales had the comeback ride from 11th on the grid. Didn't see in the replay's of when he caught Rossi but he did. Yamaha need to get this figured out. When last year's bike is miles ahead of the current bike(with all the upgrades), Team Blue is up sh*t creek if they can't get it figured out.

At the half way point of the year, on paper Yamaha look to have the best bike(with 4 wins) but when you watch the races that's not the case and they more than everyone else seem to be struggling from venue to venue. I honestly don't see them having the upper hand until Misano(which is four races away). I'm betting that either Marquez or Pedrosa will take Brno(which is a classic Honda track), then Austria could go to Dovi(don't see Lorenzo in the mix) or maybe Marquez. Silverstone then maybe the Yamaha's might have a chance but Marquez is strong there as well.

Really the rest of the season is now in Honda's control. We are heading into tracks that suit their bikes well, with a couple that could go to Ducati(Red Bull Ring & Sepang). I think Dovi can do well in Sepang based on how the bike is working for him. Plus with the two big straights will help his bike to stretch it out.

It really is anyone's championship at this point. Top 4 covered by 10 points with shifts to come from the future races. Could have a string of DNF's from people yet, so that always makes a mess of the championship.

[madvlad]

Yeah, this next half of the season is going to be rather interesting for sure. Pedrosa with that podium is within 25 points of 1st place which realistically isn't very far out. Hell, Marquez was only 17 behind and now he leads with just a single race win. Sure hope this month serves Yamaha to get some of their bugs figured out and take the battle to the top again. Still very happy for Folger, that dude rode beautifully.

[madvlad]

Yeah the Honda's just have that track figured out. Folger was riding out of his mind and hopefully that will give him some confidence going forward and we will have another rider in the mix. Danillo seems like he is a little crazy and risky at times but the tires played a big role again. 2nd to 12th is a big slide. Lorenzo had the same thing happen but he has more issues than Ducati can even fix at this point. Dovi lost the tires towards the end as well and slipped from first to third in the championship. Crazy!

The championship is close and this season may go all the way to the last race to decide a champion which means the fans win and the series gets stronger.

Yeah Honda definitely doesn't have to adjust much on that track as it fits it so well. I am still hell of surprised as of how Folger found such pace, would have challenged for the win if not for the couple mistakes at T1. I was rather surprised at the soft tire choices by some riders, the track surface being new was super abrasive and was tearing tires up pretty good. Loved the pass on Lorenzo by Folger, made him look like a rookie :lol:. This championship is going to be insane to the last round and lap, this sport keeps getting better and better.

[madvlad]

This summer break shit isn't working out... bored out of my mind :lol:

[texlurch]

This summer break shit isn't working out... bored out of my mind :lol:

uhhhmmm go ride??

[The Black Knight]

Brno will be here before you know it. Least I have F1 to hold me over til then. Thanks to Playstation Vue still not getting BeIN sports back, I can't watch WSBK anymore. May have to take the plunge and get the WSBK subscription.

[madvlad]

And factory Yamaha keeps struggling in the dry, wow. While other teams tested during the break and made huge leaps, I'm surprised they didn't with as many problems with that chassis as they're having. Well glad we are back to our regular scheduled programming :lol:

[The Black Knight]

And factory Yamaha keeps struggling in the dry, wow. While other teams tested during the break and made huge leaps, I'm surprised they didn't with as many problems with that chassis as they're having. Well glad we are back to our regular scheduled programming :lol:

Not looking to shabby this morning. Good FP3 and FP4 for Rossi, Vinales seems to struggle just a bit. He's really losing time in the 2nd split, really showed in Q2. Looks to be a great race and hope for good sunny weather. Like to see a battle of titans with Rossi and Marquez again...

[madvlad]

Should talk more shit haha, that came out of nowhere. Should be a hell of a showdown tomorrow.

[madvlad]

Fucking Marquez man :lol: only dude that can make such a ghastly tire choice and make it pay off lol.

[The Black Knight]

LOL!!! what a turd of a race. Once again when it comes to communication apparently Honda know what they are doing. Good job from Team Yamaha, only 20+ seconds behind, way to go guys, you'll turn this championship around yet... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I get a kick out of these flag to flag races in MotoGP. After watching Formula 1 the last few weeks during the summer break. I can certainly say that MotoGP need to go take some classes from Formula 1 teams. I guess Honda are the only ones that get it. Honda can dial it down to the second and pull off perfection. Yamaha look like amateurs.

Yesterday I stopped into a Gun store to check out some stuff and the guys had the qualifying session on their computer. So we started chatting about MotoGP and whose favorite rider is who. Was surprised to see they were Rossi fans as well. But even these guys said, what is wrong with Team Yamaha?? I said, you're guys guess is as good as mine. We all agreed Yamaha flat sucks this year and if it's not the bike giving them issues, it's sh*t like today that gives them issues. They agreed, that last year Rossi was without a doubt the fastest, yet this year seems to really lack something. I said, it's more the bike than anything else. Yeah he does look a little less driven, but for the most part seems the problem is Team Yamaha and the M1.

Oh well, on to Austria where Yamaha is for sure going to get there ass kicked between their shoulder blades some more...

[madvlad]

Oh no, that was not deliberate at all dude. Just a huge mistake that paid off, there is no way in hell Honda planned this lol

[The Black Knight]

Oh no, that was not deliberate at all dude. Just a huge mistake that paid off, there is no way in hell Honda planned this lol

See, I'm thinking they did. Sure Marquez will say the soft was a mistake and it all honesty it may have been. Where Honda still gets it right and planned out, is how they attack and resolve issues when they arise. They could tell by the timing, Marquez was losing time, so they brought him in on lap 2 and it turned out to be a perfect calculation.

Now some might say, well he wasn't given anything on his pitboard because as it was only lap 2 he came in on. However, you have to remember they have built in strategies that they go over and over. Something to the affect of, well if A. happens, then you do B. If C. happens then you do D. They have redundant back up plans in place should the unexpected happen.

Something that Team Yamaha obviously don't have. You can tell by the fact that apparently no one in either garage can read a stopwatch or timing screen. Marquez switches to slicks and is immediately 10 seconds a lap faster. Factor in a pit lane delta of around 25 seconds, rider transition to other bike of a couple seconds, and you're looking at around a 30 second pit lane delta. That's just 30 seconds lost on a track that takes roughly 1:57secs(on slicks) to circulate. Rossi was doing 2:08's, Marquez was in the 1:57's, so yeah he was eating away at that lead big time. It only took him about 3 laps to erase the deficit as he was closing in on them, when Rossi and Dovi finally decided to head into the pits.

What moron is running their timing for Yamaha?? 4 laps at 10 seconds per lap faster = 40 seconds, add in roughly 30 second pit lane delta. That's 70 seconds or 1:10 they lost. That's just going by the figures I saw during the race. When they compared them right away, Marquez was 10 seconds faster. Obviously he was getting quicker and they were going slower for him to basically catch up in just four laps time. And that's just rough math from a viewer point of view. Not to mention the time they lose on the first out lap getting tires up to temperature.

So it all factors in. As soon as Marquez went for the pits, the message on Team Yamaha's boards should have read BOX! so they guys would know to come in on the next lap. That way you only give him two laps, instead of the four. Look how well Pedrosa did, he came in next lap and got second, even Vinales managed to salvage a 3rd coming in a lap before Rossi.

This is what I'm getting at, there is just no communication from teams to riders. And by that I, not only communicating via pit board, but having a plan in place should this kind of stuff happen. I know, Yamaha surely does have a plan in place but wet race after wet race where they get it wrong. It leaves a person thinking maybe they really don't have a plan for when this kind of stuff happens.

Granted I'm not in the teams shoes. But I've seen enough racing in my life, to recognize when teams get it right and when teams get it horribly wrong.

[madvlad]

I get there is obviously some type of planning and what not but there is no way they were even having a thought of this result happening. What if the tires hadn't dropped that fast? One more lap out there and he could have changed his result entirely. Again, luck played his part just like when he pushes way too far and somehow managed to barely save a crash lol... Yamaha also perhaps thought that since Rossi can manage tires rather well they'd see what happened for one more lap so it was a tough one to call, he came in next lap in anyways so it's not like he dragged on like at that one race (Germany I believe) and lost it on his own. Honda capitalized and well onto Austria, hope Ducati won't rape the rest of the grid too bad :lol:

[The Black Knight]

I get there is obviously some type of planning and what not but there is no way they were even having a thought of this result happening. What if the tires hadn't dropped that fast? One more lap out there and he could have changed his result entirely. Again, luck played his part just like when he pushes way too far and somehow managed to barely save a crash lol... Yamaha also perhaps thought that since Rossi can manage tires rather well they'd see what happened for one more lap so it was a tough one to call, he came in next lap in anyways so it's not like he dragged on like at that one race (Germany I believe) and lost it on his own. Honda capitalized and well onto Austria, hope Ducati won't rape the rest of the grid too bad :lol:

Yeah it was Misano 2015 where him and Lorenzo just dragged it on and on and really screwed the result up for everyone.

I agree, it was a gamble for HRC but I think it was a calculated gamble. Just seems their gambles pay off more than others, which tells me that they plan things out more. You can tell, they plan with the championship in mind, whereas everyone else seems to plan just for the race of the day. Which is good and bad. Good because they are looking into the long term for the championship. Bad, that it sometimes can make a team a bit extra cautious and then the risk or reward factor goes away. So it is a gamble either way you slice it.

I agree with you on Ducati, to Austria where I'm sure if they get a good setting and dry weather are going to rape everyone. We could be seeing a complete lock out of the podium by Ducati riders. If in a perfect world and race, I'd forecast a Dovi, Lorenzo and either Petrucci or Bautista podium. And really Petrucci could relegate Lorenzo to third if he gets it right. Petrux seems to be able to out perform Lorenzo on just about any race. I, honestly believe that if he out performs Lorenzo in 2018, Petrucci may be the one to move in on that seat.

And what is the deal with Suzuki?? Specifically Iannone... Basically dead last!!! Which translates into "dead weight"... Least Rins was looking for a top 10 towards the end. I'm thinking Iannone just doesn't care anymore. His crash in pit lane was rather funny. Good old A. Espargaro doing what he does best(and that's get in the way).

All in all, this race sucked... I had high hopes that the riders were out to do the business after the summer break. And what a disappointing abomination we got instead. I really didn't care if Rossi was going to win, just was happy to see that he had some good pace and was competitive. Was just hoping for a good race for everyone til the end. Really takes the wind out of your sails when you see these tactical nightmares unfold at a race. If it ain't the tires, it's the sh*t decisions by everyone during a flag to flag.

[Gramps]

Speaking of Lorenzo. That guy was just tearing it up today with that new fairing. I think he has become the factory test guy.

:dunno:

At least he scored a point.


This is all total sarcasm. I think it's great.

[The Black Knight]

Speaking of Lorenzo. That guy was just tearing it up today with that new fairing. I think he has become the factory test guy.

:dunno:

At least he scored a point.


This is all total sarcasm. I think it's great.

Yeah, that fairing leaves something to be desired for sure. I'm wondering what the deal was that fairing. You'd think if it had something to do with extra down force, we would have seen(or in the future) it at high speed tracks(i.e. Mugello, Phillip Island, Malaysia). Dovi apparently didn't need it. Yeah maybe Lorenzo can switch spots with Stoner as a test rider. It's got to be damaging to his ego, he's getting smoked by Dovi and now they use him as a guinea pig for stupid fairing day.

I'm with you, it just warms my heart to see Lorenzo doing so well.

[madvlad]

Yamaha isn't insanely far behind but yeah they're going to have their hands full this weekend. That ugly fairing is working wonders for Ducati it seems, Dovi raved about it saying the front end feeling is much better. Sure hope Yamaha can salvage some points this weekend cause seems Dovi will close the gap to MM this weekend for sure.

[The Black Knight]

Yamaha isn't insanely far behind but yeah they're going to have their hands full this weekend. That ugly fairing is working wonders for Ducati it seems, Dovi raved about it saying the front end feeling is much better. Sure hope Yamaha can salvage some points this weekend cause seems Dovi will close the gap to MM this weekend for sure.

Well everyone seems somewhat close. Vinales seems to have some issues sorted at the moment. Pedrosa and Marquez are doing well. Mainly Rossi is all of no where. He's getting out paced by several satellite bikes and not to mention Lorenzo. The top 15 are covered by one second, so that tells you that it's close for everyone at the moment. I don't think I can remember a year where the performance from one race to the next was so up and down. Some manufactures are weathering it better than others but for the most part, every team has it up and down in terms of performance. Should be a good race pending weather.

[madvlad]

Guess Rossi is having flu like symptoms too so that doesn't help a whole lot either. Definitely a lot closer than last year even with the 12th place is still under a second off the fastest pace and Viñales at only .200 off. Hope weather helps cause those flag yo flag races are getting old.

[madvlad]

Predictions for tomorrow?

[The Black Knight]

You know going over the FP4 lap analysis(FP4 is typically indicative of actual race pace), the only two guys that have serious pace are Marquez and Rossi. Marquez had 9 laps in the 1:24's, with Rossi having 8 laps in the 1:24's. Here's the problem if Rossi is really sick and having stamina issues, then I don't see him being much of a threat late into the race. He may be able to do well in the early stages but could fall off the pace later on. Then again he may feel very well tomorrow and could do better. So much up in the air around a flu sickness. Is it real flu or just the sh*ts flu? Who knows..

At this point, barring Rossi getting better over night, I think Marque will be in the fight for the win with probably himself. I don't see Dovi or Lorenzo being able to match Marquez. Again, this is going just by FP4 times. You compare the Ducatis and they are no where in terms of pace. Even Vinales pace in FP4 is laughable compared to Marquez or Rossi. The only one who will likely be close to Marquez is Pedrosa. He also had six laps in the 1:24's, with a bunch in the low to mid 1:25's.

Unless everyone find some pace in morning warm-up and become more consistent to compete with Marquez, then it's his race to lose. The way I see the podium shaking out:

Marquez
Pedrosa or Rossi
Rossi or Dovi or Vinales or Petrucci

But to go with a straight up concrete pick of the top 3, then I see it as Marquez, Pedrosa and Dovi, in that order.

2nd through 5th are really up for grabs. I really do believe it is Marquez's race to lose and honestly if I had to go with my gut. I don't see Rossi on the podium. Unless he's healthy and finds a little something more. I will say, he seems to be doing better on Saturday's practices. His Friday practices are still weak but at least he's doing better come qualifying day..

[madvlad]

What a showdown man, how Dovi managed to push 1:24 lap times all race with a soft tire option is beyond me, well earned and deserved for him, can't even be mad at all and nice prediction on the Pedrosa, Marquez and Dovi podium. This title race has come down to him and Marquez, Rossi and Viñales slowly creeping away from contention and no relief in sight and also Pedrosa threatens Rossi for his spot now as he closed the points gap rather good today. Sure will be rooting for Dovi if it comes down to Yamaha not being able to pull a rabbit out of the hat cause if they don't make anything happen in the next couple races, this is over for them.

[The Black Knight]

What an epic battle!!! Now that was a great race, very awesome...

Damnit, I hate it when I'm right. It was Marquez race to lose, and everyone found a little something during morning warm-up. Well almost everyone. Big, massive, huge congrats to Dovi!!! :up:

Finally, good to see Dovi reap some rewards of his hard work. It's been since 2010 that Ducati have won three races in a season. Nice to see Lorenzo not on the podium, again.

Marquez is just a total beast. At a track that Ducati should have raped everyone, Honda did well and regardless of Dovi's win. I'll call it now and say Marquez will be crowed champion again this year. He's just way faster than everyone else. We head of Silverstone in two weeks time, and that's probably going to be the reverse with Marquez bending everyone over, he loves that track.

Big round of applause for Yamaha. That hard work is so paying off. I totally get their strategy now. They have to go backwards in order to go forwards, err wait... They have to not win in order to show you're getting faster, wait I know... They just suck and aren't doing anything about it. And they're slow?? Guess the tortoise really doesn't beat the hare in MotoGP....

And last but not least, Zarco. Way to go dumbass, you make passes that not only make you but others go backwards. You fit right in with Team Yamaha's ethos of less really is less, and going slow means not winning races. Bravo sir, bravo...

[madvlad]

Yeah that whole Zarco deal is getting on my nerves and he's done it quite a few times now. Late pass and makes way for Pedrosa lol what? I'm sure he is also wanting Rossi to struggle to get his seat possibly next season depending on how this one ends for him.

[The Black Knight]

Yeah that whole Zarco deal is getting on my nerves and he's done it quite a few times now. Late pass and makes way for Pedrosa lol what? I'm sure he is also wanting Rossi to struggle to get his seat possibly next season depending on how this one ends for him.

The thing is, he's fast and has great talent. But, he still is pulling these bonehead moves the same as he did in Moto2. I do think he has it out for Rossi. Have to remember, all these guys have huge egos and when Rossi slammed him earlier in the season for some of the moves he's done, he's held a grudge over it. You can see it when he passes other riders, most of the time he pulls it off without much fanfare. Yet, he gets to Rossi and inevitably pulls off a very hard pass, that while may be a clean pass usually ends up screwing both of them. He's so bent on passing Rossi that he can't pick the best time to pass. He just wants to prove a point. The only problem is, if Rossi were on last year's bike and riding the way he did last year, Zarco wouldn't even be fast enough to hold Rossi's jock. So he's kind of kicking Rossi while he is down. And whatever, it's a sport and they are paid professionals, so it's going to happen. He is gunning for Rossi's spot and I think we may see Rossi leave early if he can't turn this season around and somewhat salvage this year with some positive results.

At this point Rossi is doing worse than he did in 2013. He had one win that year and 6 podiums, he can't even sniff the podium this year. He's really struggling and so is Vinales.

Which after stepping back and reflecting a bit on the performance of the two riders. Along with both of them now really struggling to do well. I think Rossi is still fast, sure I think he's lost a little bit of motivation and speed, and he isn't as fast as he was last year. But I think it's a 50/50 scenario. I think the other half of his problem is that piece of crap M1 he's on. It just isn't performing that well. Yamaha have gone from having a great all around package, that works well at any track to having a bike that is starting to struggle with being midpack.

[The Black Knight]

Anyone else having issues with MotoGP.com's ability to playback the race after it's already been over. I wanted to watch it again just now, as I missed the first few laps this morning and I can't even get a smooth stream out of them. Usually I watch it in 1080 but drop back to 720 if it's having some speed issues. Lately, I've been getting a very stop and start kind of streaming. It will play about 4 seconds worth of video, lock up and then speed everything up to catch up where it seized. Then plays for a few seconds and does it all over again. Very irritating... And I know it can't be me, although my upload speeds seem to be throttle back these days by Comcast.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/6536645431.png (http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6536645431)

[The Black Knight]

Went over to testmy.net to compare and I guess I don't really have much to complain about in terms of sheer speed I'm running. Thought the issue might be on my end but with 419% faster than my average host, 618% faster than my city average and 934% faster than US average. Guess the problem might lie with MotoGP.com. I know what it is!!! They must be using the Call of Duty servers. Nothing lags out like some COD servers... LOL!! :up:


http://testmy.net/Pfd7VMsbC.png (http://testmy.net/db/Pfd7VMsbC)

[madvlad]

The only issue I was having is that once I was on streaming 1 then the feed would loop in about 3-4 intervals and freeze the picture but once I went to streaming 2,3 or 4 everything was fine and running full 1080p without issues.

[The Black Knight]

The only issue I was having is that once I was on streaming 1 then the feed would loop in about 3-4 intervals and freeze the picture but once I went to streaming 2,3 or 4 everything was fine and running full 1080p without issues.

Yeah I prefer to do as you and watch the race live, so I can choose the different streaming options. My issue is on the replays of the races. Lot of times I'll watch the race again later on Sunday or sometime during the week. I've just been noticing that they have some playback issues on new races. Now, old races not so much. I'm sure I can go back and watch the opening round at Qatar with no issue. But, it's always the current race that has the issue. Could be many people do as I do and watch it over a time or two. Oh well, either way I'll just live with it.

[longrider]

I watched the race Sunday evening and had no issues with playback. It is not your connection, I have only 15Mbps. I suspect the servers might have been overloaded immediately after the race

[madvlad]

I watched the race Sunday evening and had no issues with playback. It is not your connection, I have only 15Mbps. I suspect the servers might have been overloaded immediately after the race

^this, it does seem like it's a server overload deal. Most people aren't as crazy as us and watch shit live haha

[Okrapp]

Yeah, except Argentina and COTA I don't get up early enough to watch live. Would be interesting to see stats for when viewed in our market.

[The Black Knight]

I agree, most streaming sites are setup to work with internet connections that are a lot less than where I'm at. Even Call of Duty servers are setup to work with folks on basic DSL connections around 5mbps. In all reality you don't need a super fast connection to work with sites streaming. Only reason I have it as fast as I do, is I'm usually running PC, laptop, wi-fi and PS4, along with Roku. So I'd like to always have more than enough to work with all the devices. I'm a more is more kind of guy. Never is less, more. More is more...

I agree, most people catch the races on the re-run later in the day on BeIN sports. Normally, if it's a good race. I'll catch it live, and then watch it again a time or two later on Sunday. Just cause the second time around I use to analyze the races more, whereas during the live race, I'm just enjoying the race to enjoy it.

[madvlad]

Digging that new flag to flag set up, much safer for sure

[Gramps]

Digging that new flag to flag set up, much safer for sure

agreed

[The Black Knight]

That was a blistering lap from Marquez to secure pole. Was thinking Rossi was about to obliterate it based on his first three sector times. He said in the post qualifying interview that he has lots of spinning in the fourth sector. But to me, looked like the caught a few riders in front of him that may have hampered his speed. I think he's also being a little coy about his race chances tomorrow saying his race pace needs some work. He does look to have some decent pace. Still think this is Marquez race, based on just how fast he is.

Was great to see a lap under the two minute mark for Silverstone.

Should have a good race for tomorrow, let's hope the weather stays clear and we get a clean dry race.

[texlurch]

Marquez was at and over the edge for most of his qual lap; Rossi not so much. The Doctor may be "in" tomorrow....

[The Black Knight]

Marquez was at and over the edge for most of his qual lap; Rossi not so much. The Doctor may be "in" tomorrow....

I agree, he did seem very smooth and racy. Marquez was all over the place and Rossi was just smooth. Still believe the sector four might be due to other riders in front and not so much the excessive wheel spin. I'm hoping for a good race tomorrow.

[madvlad]

Dude what a heartbreaker for Rossi, fuck that made me mad... also sucks for MM on the blown engine. Good race overall though. This championship is wide open, one mistake from any rider from here on out and is game over, wow...

[The Black Knight]

Dude what a heartbreaker for Rossi, fuck that made me mad... also sucks for MM on the blown engine. Good race overall though. This championship is wide open, one mistake from any rider from here on out and is game over, wow...

Man, I had a good hard laugh when I saw it all unfold. Really can't fault Rossi in this instance, I do think he could have put up a little more of a fight(especially since he just let Vinales go by) but he's thinking about championship and what happened in Le Mans.

But you know Yamaha has got to be thinking they really have a turd loser for a 2017 bike. Sure they have made some in roads and gotten better but it's just not enough at this point. When Ducati wins 4 races and both of them in back to back instances. It's time to rethink just how Yamaha is making a bike.

My opinion at this point in the championship, Yamaha are lucky to be 3rd best bike. I don't know how everyone keeps saying they have the best package and bike. Yamaha's performance is so yo-yo that's it's not even funny anymore.

And I don't think Ducati has gotten that much better, surely they have improved. However, I think it's just that everyone else just sucks this year. Look at Suzuki, last year they were easily on par with Ducati as the 3rd best bike on the grid and in my opinion, were a better bike than Ducati last year. So really, Ducati haven't improved by leaps and bounds, it's just everyone else have gone in reverse.

Honda, is the only bike that I see being best on the grid at the moment. Mainly it's only Marquez doing well on it. Pedrosa is still having issues with the bike but has won, and Crutchlow is doing better on his RCV213. But in my eyes the Honda is very consistent in terms of pace at every track.

But again, 2017 hasn't been the best year for bike development and tire development. I believe that for some reason Michelin is actually worse this year with tire allocation than last year. Or it's just that other teams can't work well with this year's tires. With almost two seasons in the books, I can say I'm not impressed with Michelin at all. You can tell Michelin are having problems making their tires perform, when one guy uses a Soft, others are on the Hard and they both last the same distance. Or in today's case, the Soft outlasted the Hard. Or they get to a venue and all the riders say they can't tell a difference between all three(Soft, Medium, Hard) tires. There should be a huge difference in tires. Some might say, well that's Michelin making really good tires but I see it as Michelin having no clue what they are doing and just making tires and see where they fall. Look at P. Espagaro's post race crash. Was it bike failure or tire failure?? Looked more like the bike fell over cause the tire gave way.

I'll pound on Michelin until the either leave the sport or we go back to a diverse selection of tire manufactures(i.e. the 990 era). At this point, I think Michelin are ruining some races. Others are really good races but some races just flat out jive everyone with the tires.

Was a bummer to see Marquz blow up. Was hoping he didn't spill oil on the track and was wanting to see another good battle between him and whomever it might be. Not sure if he would have won the race, though I think had he stayed upright then it would have been a Dovi, Marquez and Vinales podium. What it did do, was as you say blow the championship wide open and make it close again. Marquez will bounce back and it's still his championship to lose. Vinales has new hope and Dovi is riding high. Honestly, Rossi is sucking hind tit at this point and I don't see him getting much higher than 3rd in the championship. Where he's at is where he will stay come Valencia.

[madvlad]

I am really curious to know what actually caused him to lose so much time towards the end, couldn't have been tires given he had the hard and hard option and Viñales overtook him on a soft rear so doubt it was an actual tire problem.... fuck that still sucks man, having that kind of pace and 2 laps out he lost it, fuck that would have me riled lol

[The Black Knight]

I am really curious to know what actually caused him to lose so much time towards the end, couldn't have been tires given he had the hard and hard option and Viñales overtook him on a soft rear so doubt it was an actual tire problem.... fuck that still sucks man, having that kind of pace and 2 laps out he lost it, fuck that would have me riled lol

I honestly believe man that the problem lies within the Yamaha and the tires. Or I should say, Yamaha's inability to make the tires work right. Yeah, people will say, but Rossi led the whole race and had great pace. He did but then again he really didn't. He managed to jump out to a 1.2 sec lead, and then what?? He managed it? No, if you have the pace for 1.2 sec, then you have pace to push that to at least 2.0 or maybe more seconds of a lead. Something happened, and I believe it was way earlier than what we saw at the end. It all just came to fruition on the last two laps.

I am no lying man and as God as my witness, I knew that regardless Rossi jumped out to that early lead. Something in my gut told me he wasn't going to win and that he would be lucky to see the podium. And sure as the sky is blue, it just about all came true. For some reason, can't quite put my finger on it. It was just all too good to be true.

I think Rossi was feeling great and had a commanding lead. Then around that 1.2sec lead mark something changed. For one, he got that BRK message on the board. Every time that message comes up on Rossi's board, he has to slow down. And maybe no so much slow down, but he doesn't maintain that blistering pace that he previously was on.

Which then in turn leads me to believe that the whole of MotoGP are a bunch of liars when they say they can't communicate with the bikes the way you can in Formula 1. I call bullsh*t on that, and always will. They know exactly what is going on with the bike, with the motor, with the fuel. There is just no way that a bike like that, can cost $5 million. I mean, how much money can you pack into R&D on two wheels?? Sure, they are prototypes, sure they make 260hp, sure they run magnesium lightweight wheels with cutting edge tech Brembos. But after that you've got what? Frame and forks?? Some software for the CPU, which by the way is same compulsory spec that DORNA regulates.

So that tells me, that what is left are sensors and other computers on the bikes that communicate telemetry, wheel data, engine data, and so on and so on. You see the bikes with little antennas on them. Those on board cameras have to transmit real time video. Something happens with these bikes that makes them change for the rider. Whether it's the teams managing the fuel load, amount of power output, yadda yadda. I really don't know as I'm not on the inside. But there is more that what we can see.

If you really want to pour over some data, check out here: http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2017/GBR/MotoGP/RAC/Analysis.pdf?v3_0be15ac1

Going by the lap by lap analysis, I can't really see where Dovi made up a ton of time on Rossi. Dovi only ran three more laps in the 2:01's and those laps Rossi was in the very low 2:02's. Look at the last lap for Rossi. Nearly dipped back into the 2:01's. And he only had one lap where he fell off the pace in the 2:03's. it wasn't only until Rossi did the 2:03 is where he got passed. And his next two laps weren't scorching either. When you compare top speed is where you get the biggest discrepancies. The Ducati does have a ton of top speed. Which is where the Ducati holds it's advantages.

[madvlad]

Man watching that post race conference, Rossi is severely bothered and has a very unique tone. Kind of almost seems to me like he's thinking about not continuing on. This rabbit hole goes a lot deeper and I fear politics are about to fuck Rossi hardcore.

[bulldog]

Man watching that post race conference, Rossi is severely bothered and has a very unique tone. Kind of almost seems to me like he's thinking about not continuing on. This rabbit hole goes a lot deeper and I fear politics are about to fuck Rossi hardcore. Wow....what a clown show :lol:

I'm getting my ball and going home as amazed that people watch this stuff ;) :D

[madvlad]

Hey man just like you guys watch dance offs, I watch this lol

[bulldog]

Hey man just like you guys watch dance offs, I watch this lol Hey I watched some Isle of Man this weekend. To me this is the UFC to Motogp.....much more exciting than MotoGP :D


Although I was really talking about the post race conference.....amazed people watch this.......but I can say we watched the post for Conor and Mayweather so I get it :)

P.S. I did used to follow MotoGP back in days...just lost the excitement for me after years.

[salsashark]

Man watching that post race conference, Rossi is severely bothered and has a very unique tone. Kind of almost seems to me like he's thinking about not continuing on. This rabbit hole goes a lot deeper and I fear politics are about to fuck Rossi hardcore.

Honestly, I can't wait for Rossi to retire. Yes, he's a GOAT racer. Yes, he's the loveable clown. Yes, he could ride circles around me with his eyes closed on a tricycle missing a wheel. Don't care. Times change, he can throw down, but he's not consistent. There's amazing talent coming up. Time to go develop bikes and talent full time. Leave the racing to the kids.

[madvlad]

Honestly, I can't wait for Rossi to retire. Yes, he's a GOAT racer. Yes, he's the loveable clown. Yes, he could ride circles around me with his eyes closed on a tricycle missing a wheel. Don't care. Times change, he can throw down, but he's not consistent. There's amazing talent coming up. Time to go develop bikes and talent full time. Leave the racing to the kids.

Yeah, we all know he will go soon which is why he does have his moto2 and 3 team going and also life after GP helping develop for Yamaha as well which goes hand in hand to when people said he would have issues with Viñales like he did with Lorenzo but well as we can see that's a great relationship cause Viñales isn't a prick lol. He may opt out of his last season if he can't close the gap at the end of this year. Granted while he is still fast for his age and all but one hell of a run he's had, I will say that.

[The Black Knight]

Man watching that post race conference, Rossi is severely bothered and has a very unique tone. Kind of almost seems to me like he's thinking about not continuing on. This rabbit hole goes a lot deeper and I fear politics are about to fuck Rossi hardcore.

Wow?? I'll have to check out the post race conference. Normally I catch them about an hour after the race but didn't this weekend as the race was on later and I had stuff to do. If I don't catch the post race conference, I'll usually check out the rider comments on MotoGP or Crash.net sites.

What have you heard as far as politics go? Haven't heard much myself other than the politics of crappy tires from Michelin. I will say, it does seem that Yamaha counted their chickens before they hatched and thought they had the end all be all in bikes during Testing. Then Vinales came out and won two in a row, so Yamaha figured they had it nailed. Then reality hit in Jerez and Yamaha found out that they should have probably listened a little more to Rossi and made the bike work for the whole race distance.

Rossi hasn't had a bike developed around him since 2009. When he came back in 2013 I knew he would win but that the elusive 10th title would be hard to get. 2015 saw him come as close as ever, but still lost it. So with him not having the bike he wants and that was developed around him, he's not the dominant force he used to be. 2015 was the last time he won 4 races, but that has been his only year with several wins. 2013 - 1, 2014 -2, 2015 -4, 2016 - 2, and this year so far just one win. I honestly believe he won't win another race this year. He might get a sniff next week in Misano but man that's about it. Maybe Phillip Island. But I thoroughly expect him to get stomped in Aragon, Motegi, Malaysia and Valencia.

See you guys slammed me a couple months back for saying that Rossi isn't the same Rossi we've seen. I got ripped for saying he should retire. Now, all of a sudden everyone's starting to see what I saw.

I haven't been watching(and been a huge fan of) Rossi since he was with Honda, and not learned a thing or two about the guy. I can just see it in his presence, his eyes, the way he's riding and just his overall belief in what he's doing. He's just lost it. It's not that he's slow, the guy is still super fast. It's just that he's not fast enough. The other guys are faster and sometimes way faster.

There isn't a time that Rossi can lay down, that Marquez can't go out and completely obliterate it and do it without it being his most perfect lap. Should Marquez get that perfect lap to come together, then he just rapes everyone on the grid. Even Pedrosa, Lorenzo are coming to the end of their time. Dovi really doesn't have much longer either, so you know he'll be pushing for the crown this year.

The future is Marquez, Vinales, Folger, Rins, Morbidelli, Marquez(Alex) and others coming up from the lower ranks.

Stoner left because the circus became to much for him. Rossi may be reaching that same tipping point. When it stops being fun, then it's time to stop dong it.


Honestly, I can't wait for Rossi to retire. Yes, he's a GOAT racer. Yes, he's the loveable clown. Yes, he could ride circles around me with his eyes closed on a tricycle missing a wheel. Don't care. Times change, he can throw down, but he's not consistent. There's amazing talent coming up. Time to go develop bikes and talent full time. Leave the racing to the kids.

Have to agree with all of this. Rossi will be the greatest ever and I'm very glad I got to live in the time that Rossi raced in. Never got to see the greats of the golden era of MotoGP, but I have to say when Rossi does retire it will be the close of another golden era of MotoGP racing. The riders of today, are stronger, faster, recover quicker and are more relentless than ever. For Rossi to be able to fight with these young guns is very much admirable and something only someone as special as Rossi can do. Yet, he can't do it forever and he's starting to really show he's lost a step.

Rossi knows he's not the Rossi of 2003-2005, when he could do no wrong with a bike and make up any amount of time. I still remember Phillip Island 2003, when Rossi got slapped with a 10 second in race penalty. So what did he do?? Set a series of blistering laps to pull out over a 15 second lead to erase the 10 second deficit and still win the race. Then in 2008 he put an end to Stoner's wicked run of wins at Laguna Seca. Stoner was 1 second!! faster than everyone in qualifying. Yet, come race time Rossi hounded him to the point of weariness. Rossi was relentless with Stoner, they battled back and forth and it was a true clash of the titans. Back then when Rossi needed to, he just went faster and faster. He can't do that anymore, and he knows it. Back then he would win 11 races a year, now he's barely sniffing more than two a year. He's had 20+ years in the game, and that's more than any racer can ask for. He's been truly blessed as a racer.

But you can't win forever. You can't stay at the top forever. Sooner or later you become to old, to slow or not hungry enough to keep fighting.

There's a saying that I live by and constantly tell myself. It is said, "that the wolf on top of the mountain, will never be as hungry as the wolf climbing the mountain." Which means, if you ever stop trying to improve and do better, then you'll stop being the wolf climbing the mountain. And it translates into everyday things we all do.

I see Rossi as the wolf on top of the mountain. He stopped being the wolf climbing the mountain many years ago. He stopped being hungry and became very content with what he achieved. And there is nothing wrong with finding contentment. Yet, in his profession you can't find contentment. One must always be hungry and relentless to achieve the best. To be the best of the best, one must beat the best of the best. When you stop wanting to beat the best of the best, means you've given in to contentment and said enough is enough. Problem for Rossi is he doesn't want to leave the party. He's content but still loves the thrill of the game.

[salsashark]

Uh-oh Shaggy!

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/motogp/2017/august/motogp-rossi-suffers-suspected-broken-leg-in-training-crash/


Italian media are reporting that nine-time world champion Valentino Rossi has suffered a broken leg in a training fall this afternoon. The Movistar Yamaha rider is reported to have broken both tibia and fibula in the crash, and will undergo surgery tonight to have the injury repaired.

The crash marks the second time this season that he's been injured in a training fall, after going into the Italian Grand Prix in May suffering the effects of rib injuries serious enough to see him spend the night in hospital. However, if the broken leg is confirmed it could be considerably more serious, most certainly delaying any hopes he has of lighting a tenth world title in 2017 despite being only 26 points off championship leader Andrea Dovizioso after twelve rounds.

[The Black Knight]

And with that, Rossi will retire....

[madvlad]

Yep, there goes his season... well sure hope Dovi or Viñales take it. Also wonder if this may cause him to ponder on retirement and waive his last year in GP...

[Okrapp]

That just sucks..looked up lower leg displaced fractures and yeah, recovery doesn't look fast.

[The Black Knight]

Yep, there goes his season... well sure hope Dovi or Viñales take it. Also wonder if this may cause him to ponder on retirement and waive his last year in GP...

I think it will force him into retirement. Maybe not 100% from the injury but Yamaha may be getting tired of his injuries he keeps sustaining from riding dirt. You'd think this guy would get it through his head by now, that you can't race MotoGP and ride dirt at the same time. I think he needs to spend more time in the gym and less time dicking around on dirtbikes with the kiddies.

Yeah, he's done for certain. HAHA, I hate being right but I said he wouldn't get any higher in the championship that 3rd this year, and looks to me he will be lucky to finish in the top 10 by the end of the season.

We've got six races to go and last time he broke his leg in 2010, it took him a minimum of four races to come back, and he had the summer break back then. When he did come back, he still needed the aid of crutches to walk around. He will be lucky to walk by Valencia. At his age, I'm guessing at least two months to recover.

Yes, his 2017 campaign is finished 100%. Might as well let someone else ride the bike, and focus on returning to 100% fitness so that he can walk into Yamaha headquarters and resign the rest of his contract.

And see this is the sh*tty part that I hate about being right and seeing my favorite racer go out on a low. The guy should have went out on top and now an injury is going to end his career, same as Doohan. I'd be willing to bet money that Yamaha will seriously consider cutting him loose by the end and maybe before the season ends. Rossi has now become a liability to Yamaha and they will see that loud and clear.

[madvlad]

Yeah definitely a heartbreaker season end for the guy, lost the race and now this... crazy how things can turn so fast. In other news, new race added to the calendar

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2017/08/31/thailand-confirmed-on-the-motogp-calendar/238649

[The Black Knight]

Yeah definitely a heartbreaker season end for the guy, lost the race and now this... crazy how things can turn so fast. In other news, new race added to the calendar

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2017/08/31/thailand-confirmed-on-the-motogp-calendar/238649

Looks like Rossi had a successful surgery and will no be on recovery. I looked up displaced fractures also and the heal time is long. I'm sure they will do everything they can to get him back. I still don't see him back until Valencia(maybe Sepang if he's super lucky).

LOL!! while looking up displaced fractures I was browsing through some of the causes. Obviously most happen due to vehicular accidents and sports. But it also said that old age and osteoporosis are also contributing factors to a displaced fracture. Time to get Rossi some Boniva and vitamins.

Yeah, the Thailand track should be cool. I've seen WSBK race it and it's a nice looking track. Will be interesting to see how MotoGP go at this track.

I did find Johnny Rea's comments interesting. He said he learned a lot from the MotoGP guys while watching trackside for Silverstone. He commented on how much lean angle and more momentum they can carry versus a Superbike. I do find it odd that he said they don't stop or accelerate particularly fast. Could be the difference in the 1000cc GP vs. the 800cc bikes from years back.

I remember they were at Laguna Seca and Rossi was talking about how the 800cc bikes were so much faster around corners. At some points they were 25mph faster through some corners than a Superbike. Course that's comparing at the time, a MotoGP bike to a AMA Superbike. Obviously World Superbike's are faster than AMA.

I'm just having a hard time believing that they don't stop or accelerate faster. For as long as I can remember, GP bikes had to weigh in at 375lbs wet, whereas a Superbike were in the 400lb+ range wet. Then factor in MotoGP bikes have another 30-50hp more than a Superbike, it would only make sense that the MotoGP bikes are just quicker. If I remember right, MotoGP ran a good two seconds faster at Laguna Seca than Superbikes do. That adds up big time over race distance.

[madvlad]

Well the specs from a WSBK bike to a MotoGP bike have to be pretty vast and also the type of parts they put in as well which for GP they have to be way on the upper end as they're the cream of the crop. Just the fork size on those bikes are insane lol

[The Black Knight]

Rossi to miss Misano: http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2017/09/04/rossi-to-miss-misano/238682

As if this wasn't news or surprise for us. What is a surprise is it keeps getting mentioned that he's shooting to be back by Motegi. I still can't help but think that's way early for a break of this magnitude. It's a leg injury, and the legs support a lot of weight and movement on a bike.

When I broke my wrist while at work back in 2000. It took me about two months to be completely back to 100% with it. Spent 8 weeks in a cast, and I'd say by week 6 it probably could have come off. But the wrist sure was weak and any little bit of pressure I'd put on it made it feel as though it could break again. Mainly just sore and atrophied from being in a cast that long.

Doctors are saying 30 to 40 days out for Rossi which puts him to come back by Motegi, a super hard braking circuit.

I'd say if he's super ambitious to come back, shoot for Sepang at the minimum. Even Phillip Island is pushing it. I really didn't expect for a solid return until Valencia. Which a Valencia return makes perfect sense. Come back for the last race of the year to finish 2017 off. Then be there for the 2018 bike to test, and that's assuming he doesn't retire altogether. But if he pushes a quick return and then say the worse happens on his return and he goes down while in practice or during the race and re-injures the leg. He'll be kicking himself on why he didn't wait.

Way I see it, wait the 40 days. Start putting weight on the leg and then get back in the gym to start rehab for the leg. Then shoot for Valenica and see where that goes.

[madvlad]

Yeah his season and title race is over pretty much, no point on aggravating an injury by coming back early, just no point. He should come back when he's healthy and ready. Hell, look at all the hassle that arm pump deal gave Pedrosa cause he kept coming back too early.

[madvlad]

Get a feeling that it will be a Dovizioso/MM showdown for the title unless Viñales can pull a rabbit out of the hat and stay in this fight but doubt it with all the ongoing chassis/tire issues Yamaha is having, just not sure why they don't go back to the 16' chassis for now until they figure out what the issue is with the new one. If so, sure hope Dovi takes it this season, guess the hiring of Lorenzo gave him that extra push he needed.

[The Black Knight]

Was a good race. Just got done watching it. Ended up missing it this morning as I've been just beat from being out of town for a couple days, so I've missed all the practices and Q's.

Championship is now tied up at 199pts for Dovi and Marquez. It will come down to those two for the championship this year. My money is still on Marquez to win, would be nice to see Dovi take a championship as he's been riding very well this year. Bummed to see that Petrucci couldn't hold onto the win. He would have been over the moon to get that first win and in Italy.

Lorenzo looked to be in good form right up until he fell off the bike. I'm with you Madvlad, I think him joining Ducati has given Dovi that little extra he needed to finally become competitive and really join that alien group of riders. Dovi has consistently taken it to Lorenzo the whole season long and this really should be a good humbling experience for Lorenzo. Lorenzo really needed to be knocked down several pegs. This year has surely done it for him.

What has happened to Pedrosa?? He just can't get enough heat into the tires and this race has got to be embarrassing for him. Baz and Crutchlow both crashed and still managed to re-pass him. Honda needs to work on something for him or I don't seem him in Repsol much longer.

Had to laugh when Nick Harris said Redding got a good result to come in 7th, and it shows why Aprilia picked him up. He's going to suck at Aprilia just as he sucks with Ducati. His teammate trounces him race after race and was fighting for the win today. Redding was all of nowhere as usual. He's as big of a turd as the turd he's replacing.

Have to say, the booing Marquez got on the podium is uncalled for. Everything is in the past and let it go. He earned that win today and should be congratulated as such.

[madvlad]

I think the race was so, so. Not boring but nothing overly exciting going on either. Would have been cool to see Petrux win it but seems like that win keeps eluding him. It's either man's championship to lose, MM is pushing insanely hard and that may bite him, it almost did yesterday by nearly high siding twice. Dovi while keeping good pace, didn't risk a lot and adding any points in this late in the season can mean the title. Yamaha still having grip issues, poor Viñales just couldn't find a way granted he didn't lose too much ground but like said above, any 2-3 points can mean it all at come down to Valencia. Lorenzo will never learn to be humble, he was already talking shit about Rossi during an interview calling it and I quote "a lucky career" dude is just a punk, even with a far better bike than Rossi ever had at Ducati and he still can't make shit happen, unless conditions are perfect, he doesn't seem to have it, always finds excuses as of why he couldn't do it. Rossi seems to ride through all kinds of issues and still find a way to podium and or even win which I find hilarious lol, that's the difference between Rossi and this punk, that Rossi is willing to put in the work unlike that dipshit that's used to having it all handed to him. You can tell he hates being the workhorse at Ducati now that Dovi is up there and the roles have changed. He thought he was going to come in, have Stoner and Dovi do all the work like Rossi at Yamaha, he'd have a championship winning bike and that he would ride into the sunset lol, nope! Welcome to reality moron, this isn't your fantasy land that was being given to you at Yamaha to succeed off others hard work lol, love seeing Dovi stick it to him and showing him that he's not all he's thought out to be but he's going to have to hit rock bottom to perhaps truly humble up and see what he's made of but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

As far as Pedrosa goes, I just truly believe HRC is giving him the bad end of the blade and will can him soon, he can't seem to get anything going for himself and I'm sure HRC is also dumping all of the latest and greatest at MM obviously, just doesn't seem they're supporting Pedrosa a whole lot and I get a feeling that they're trying to make room for MM brother to come in and take that seat soon, the Marquez family seems to have some serious pull with HRC and Estrella Galicia. For a rider of his caliber, he sure is struggling and even worse than when he had the arm pump issue. Yeah, Redding seems to be more concerned about dragging elbow and looking cool for pictures than actually racing, the dude could have potential but his head just doesn't seem to be in the right place. What pisses me off is the fact that they replaced my boy Hernandez with him and that sorry ass Abraham and they've had worse results than Yonny ever did and all cause of connections. If Yonny would have had more support from Pramac and even from Pull and Bear, things would be very different. Even when he went to Moto2 they turned their back on him and gave him the shittiest bike they could to push him out. It is really sickening to see how teams only benefit European riders and while there's talent from other nations, they just could care less about them as they want to keep their legacies intact.

I didn't see the podium celebrations but that's pretty messed up. Italians tend to be pretty emotional and they have a hard time letting go, bummer. Great win by MM though, valiant effort knowing what he was risking.

[madvlad]

Also what's your take on Van der Mark replacing Rossi this upcoming round? I'm surprised Yamaha didn't even put a test rider on there to at least try and score some constructor championship points this past round.

[The Black Knight]

I think the race was so, so. Not boring but nothing overly exciting going on either. Would have been cool to see Petrux win it but seems like that win keeps eluding him. It's either man's championship to lose, MM is pushing insanely hard and that may bite him, it almost did yesterday by nearly high siding twice. Dovi while keeping good pace, didn't risk a lot and adding any points in this late in the season can mean the title. Yamaha still having grip issues, poor Viñales just couldn't find a way granted he didn't lose too much ground but like said above, any 2-3 points can mean it all at come down to Valencia. Lorenzo will never learn to be humble, he was already talking shit about Rossi during an interview calling it and I quote "a lucky career" dude is just a punk, even with a far better bike than Rossi ever had at Ducati and he still can't make shit happen, unless conditions are perfect, he doesn't seem to have it, always finds excuses as of why he couldn't do it. Rossi seems to ride through all kinds of issues and still find a way to podium and or even win which I find hilarious lol, that's the difference between Rossi and this punk, that Rossi is willing to put in the work unlike that dipshit that's used to having it all handed to him. You can tell he hates being the workhorse at Ducati now that Dovi is up there and the roles have changed. He thought he was going to come in, have Stoner and Dovi do all the work like Rossi at Yamaha, he'd have a championship winning bike and that he would ride into the sunset lol, nope! Welcome to reality moron, this isn't your fantasy land that was being given to you at Yamaha to succeed off others hard work lol, love seeing Dovi stick it to him and showing him that he's not all he's thought out to be but he's going to have to hit rock bottom to perhaps truly humble up and see what he's made of but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

As far as Pedrosa goes, I just truly believe HRC is giving him the bad end of the blade and will can him soon, he can't seem to get anything going for himself and I'm sure HRC is also dumping all of the latest and greatest at MM obviously, just doesn't seem they're supporting Pedrosa a whole lot and I get a feeling that they're trying to make room for MM brother to come in and take that seat soon, the Marquez family seems to have some serious pull with HRC and Estrella Galicia. For a rider of his caliber, he sure is struggling and even worse than when he had the arm pump issue. Yeah, Redding seems to be more concerned about dragging elbow and looking cool for pictures than actually racing, the dude could have potential but his head just doesn't seem to be in the right place. What pisses me off is the fact that they replaced my boy Hernandez with him and that sorry ass Abraham and they've had worse results than Yonny ever did and all cause of connections. If Yonny would have had more support from Pramac and even from Pull and Bear, things would be very different. Even when he went to Moto2 they turned their back on him and gave him the shittiest bike they could to push him out. It is really sickening to see how teams only benefit European riders and while there's talent from other nations, they just could care less about them as they want to keep their legacies intact.

I didn't see the podium celebrations but that's pretty messed up. Italians tend to be pretty emotional and they have a hard time letting go, bummer. Great win by MM though, valiant effort knowing what he was risking.

See I've thought the same for awhile. Pedrosa is still an alien but he's in the way for HRC. He's never delivered and that's always been due to injury but he just can't get that elusive championship. I don't know if it's to bring in little brother Marquez or what. Alex Marquez really isn't that good, Morbidelli has been beating him, same with Pasini and a few others. He's fast and he's a lot better than last year but he's no in Marc's level yet.

They could be making room for him, though I see that as really showing nepotism and again, he's really not that good.


Also what's your take on Van der Mark replacing Rossi this upcoming round? I'm surprised Yamaha didn't even put a test rider on there to at least try and score some constructor championship points this past round.

I think this move correlates to your thoughts on Dani at HRC, only it involves Rossi with Yamaha.

Yamaha brass may know something that we don't. Rossi may not be coming back next year and for all intents and purposes Yamaha are starting to groom someone to replace Rossi. They are starting to put out feelers to see who might show some potential. Everyone keeps saying Zarco, Zarco, Zarco. But I really don't think Zarco will go any faster than Rossi.

Zarco is after all, on last years bike and while he's getting good results(better than most) he's not really ahead of the factory riders. Surely, Zarco's bike(2016) is better than the 2017 bike, but is Zarco better than Rossi or Vinales, yeah not even close. Folger showed some brilliance at the Sachsenring but that was his home race, he had to deliver something special.

I thin placing Van der Mark in there for a round or two is a good move. I really don't see Rossi coming back for Motegi, yeah I know that's what he wants. But wanting doesn't cut it with a 38 year old leg that's broke in two places. Maybe an 18 year old leg might bounce back that fast but for him, I honestly didn't think to see him back until Valencia. If it were me, and I'm only a year younger than Rossi, I myself would shoot for Valencia. The year went to hell in a hand basket with the broken leg, so let 2017 die and focus on 2018 if he really does plan to comeback. Show up for Valencia, completely fit and healthy, maybe sore and stoved up but at least healthy. Do the race to get your wits back about you, and then get ready to test the 2018 machine the next day.

I'm serious is Rossi comes back to early and something goes wrong and he re-injures himself or hurts something else. He's finished, Yamaha will pull the plug on him before he does.

[madvlad]

Thailand added to next year, going from 18 rounds to 19 muahaha

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2017/09/13/get-revved-up-for-2018-motogp-calendar-announced/239918

[blaircsf]

There was recent talk of going to 20 races in a season. With new tracks coming in Finland and Kazakhstan, it will be interesting to see what happens. Apparently Rossi isn't a fan of the Thailand track though:

"I was in Thailand for Yamaha two years ago and the track is not interesting," he said. "It’s very boring, has not a lot of corners, just long straights. I think it’s not the best place to go." "And also where is the track is quite bad, it’s far from everything." "So I’m not very happy to go to Thailand, essentially, on that track. But if we have to go, we’ll go."

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/thailand-circuit-not-happy-with-motogp-likely-thailand-race-915646/

[madvlad]

Wasn't Wales supposed to join too? I remember hearing about that earlier this year.

[blaircsf]

I'd say it's pretty unlikely, they keep having funding plans shot down:
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/262781/1/is-the-welsh-motogp-dream-dead-a-timeline-of-circuit-of-wales
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-40890223

[madvlad]

Bummer, of course the government won't cut into their fat pay to fund that haha, figures.

[The Black Knight]

Wasn't Wales supposed to join too? I remember hearing about that earlier this year.

It would have replaced Silverstone on the calendar for the British round. From the looks of it, if Silverstone doesn't extend the contract, the GP will go back to Donington Park. Which is cool, WSBK do well at Donington and MotoGP always did well there. Silverstone is just a way bigger track than Donington.

Myself, I'd much rather see other tracks replace some of the current ones on the GP calendar. I'd like to see Le Mans go away and Magny Cours replace it. I'd also like to see Estoril come back, and instead of Thailand, I think MotoGP would be awesome in Russia(Sochi). Would love to see MotoGP go back to Welkom(South Africa)

Also there are the Hungaroring and Turkish Gran Prix in Turkey that MotoGP could go to as well. There a ton of German tracks that could host a GP as well(Nurburgring, Hockenheim).

Here's my list of MotoGP rounds that I'd like to see:

Round 1 - Welkom (dump Qatar, it's a shitty track)
Round 2 - Argentina
Round 3 - COTA
Round 4 - Jerez
Round 5 - Magny Cours
Round 6 - Mugello
Round 7 - Catalunya
Round 8 - Laguna Seca (bring it back)
Round 9 - Nurburgring or Hockenheim (dump Sachsenring)
Round 10 - Brno
Round 11 - Austria
Round 12 - Donington
Round 13 - Monza (instead of Misano)
Round 14 - Turkish GP or Hungaroring(get rid of Aragon)
Round 15 - Suzuka (dump Motegi)
Round 16 - Phillip Island
Round 17 - Sepang
Round 18 - Valencia(even though I think this track is lame and boring)

[madvlad]

It would be dope if Laguna made it back but MotoGP won't re-sign if they don't support moto2 and moto3 races during that weekend.... guess Rossi has been doing some test laps to make a decision on whether he will race in aragon or not

[The Black Knight]

It would be dope if Laguna made it back but MotoGP won't re-sign if they don't support moto2 and moto3 races during that weekend.... guess Rossi has been doing some test laps to make a decision on whether he will race in aragon or not

Yep it's official Rossi is going to race this weekend in Aragon. http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2017/09/21/rossi-passed-fit-to-ride-in-the-aragon-gp/240224

Can't help but think this is a bad idea. Only 21 days since the leg break. Sure he's passed the fitness test and is o.k. to ride. I just think he's really rushing to come back. The championship is blown for him at this point, barring the other three in front all crash out and can't finish the season.

I still stick with my Sepang earliest option return and Valencia being the ideal time to return to riding.

I'd even say that Phillip Island is not a bad idea, certainly better than Aragon or Motegi. Sepang at least would give him another month to recover and get back to full fitness.

Oh well, The Doctor is back and I'm happy to see him ride. Just hope he doesn't fall and disintegrate the leg completely. I will say this, he's adamant about riding this weekend, so I'd say take it easy and get some points. Don't push any kind of dog fighting and keep it simple this weekend.

[salsashark]

Oh well, The Doctor is back and I'm happy to see him ride. Just hope he doesn't fall and disintegrate the leg completely. I will say this, he's adamant about riding this weekend, so I'd say take it easy and get some points. Don't push any kind of dog fighting and keep it simple this weekend.

As long as he stays away from Pedrosa or Crutchlow, he should be alright... :lol:

[madvlad]

I'd say more Iannone than anyone lol

[madvlad]

Well f'ing A Rudy, the old man managed a very good time and front row start. Granted a 26 lap race is a different story but he could fight for podium tomorrow if the leg holds up and the bike responds as good as today. Not bad at all for having broken himself 2 weeks ago lol. Lorenzo showing signs of life but wonder if he will just drop off as he usually does. Great pole by Viñales, that should give him some motivation to fight for the win tomorrow. Should be as usual a very interesting race.

[madvlad]

What an effort by Rossi, no shame in that, really thought that Rossi could actually win or at least podium there for a minute but I'm sure the leg and tires also played part. Think he pushed a little too hard too early. Bad race for Dovi, has a lot of points to make up now though but still some races to make up that difference. Honda is just on another notch, they just simply have shit figured out this season, I mean fucking A Pedrosa came out of nowhere lol. This title race is on like donkey Kong. Really impressive that KTM is closer and closer to being within the top 10, very interested to see how they continue on next season. You can see Lorenzo is super pissed (then again when isn't he :roll: ) about the 3rd place but when will he realize that a soft compound tire is not a good one except for qualifier for a Ducati, thing puts too much power down and mainly for the pace he was carrying... well now 3 weeks of boredom... Go Broncos!!! :lol:

[madvlad]

Man Yamaha is looking in the shitter this weekend, if it remains a rain race, they are fucked and Viñales can kiss his title chances goodbye for sure... That lack of rear grip is killing them

[Spiderman]

I was surprised to see Rossi start Q2 with slicks on! :shock: Ambitious!!! I think Marquez had the right approach - get a good qualifying time in on rain tires, then try the slicks. Rossi probably would've qualified a lot better than the end of the 4th row had he followed suit.

But ya, Rossi & Viñales seem to be at a disadvantage, even with the 2018 chassis... Zarco, on the other hand... :shock:

[madvlad]

Yeah the 2017 chassis is absolute shit. They should have gone to a 2016 chassis and at least give your riders a chance at the title given you're fighting for it, not just ride it out and shoot for next season, that's idiotic. That's what your satellite teams are for, your main team isn't meant to be suffering while your satellite team does better lol. Zarco will fade out, that dude is too trigger happy and doesn't know how to manage anything.

[The Black Knight]

Yeah the 2017 chassis is absolute shit. They should have gone to a 2016 chassis and at least give your riders a chance at the title given you're fighting for it, not just ride it out and shoot for next season, that's idiotic. That's what your satellite teams are for, your main team isn't meant to be suffering while your satellite team does better lol. Zarco will fade out, that dude is too trigger happy and doesn't know how to manage anything.

I think Yamaha brass were just bound and determined to keep the 2017 bike and make it work, or improve it via updates to see where it all goes. I also think they didn't want to go down the same road that Honda did in 2015(when they switched back to the 2014 chassis) and show they(Yamaha) are having issues.

Problem is, the 2016 M1 was vastly better in being an all around package, whereas this 2017 iteration M1 seems to only work when all the elements come together for a perfect storm.

Rossi was clearly a dominant rider last year, dare say the fastest on the grid with the 2016 bike. He was just very inconsistent. Now this year, the 2017 bike just turned into a complete turd after the first couple of races. Yamaha thought they had it nailed with Vinales leading all the winter tests and winning the first two races. And then Jerez hit, and wow were they surprised by the piece of utter crap they developed.

Maybe not Vinales, but Rossi should be trying out next year's chassis and engine in the guise of a 2017 bike for sure. These last few races could provide some great feedback and development and see what and where they need to work on. I think they already know what they need to do and that's go back to the 2016 bike and basically just give it more power.

It is hard to say where Yamaha will go and what direction they are looking towards. They really up a creek without a paddle. It seems everything they try just blows up in their face. Which in a way is good for them. They didn't seem to want Rossi's input in the winter testing and pre-season. Granted Vinales is their future but he has no experience developing a bike. So really what they got was something half developed. Rossi was telling them of tires issues from the get go. He was having problem with the front end. Then started showing that the bike was starting to eat the rear tire fast.

I think their greatest surprise has come in the form of their wet weather performance, which is to say they don't really have any. I think Rossi being 2nd in FP3 was more due to Rossi than to the M1. Look at Vinales, he's still all of no where in the wet and if the race is in the wet tomorrow(tonight), then he's still going to be all of no where. I will say this, Vinales is a bit of a turd in the wet similar to Lorenzo.

So I think if Honda could switch to a 2014 chassis in 2015 to help Marquez, then Yamaha should have just switched back to the whole 2016 bike. Update it with the 2017 software and tweak the bike but it is hard to argue with just how good the 2016 bike is.

[Kim-n-Dean]

Watching these guys race in the rain pretty much proves NASCAR is a bunch of pussies!

[madvlad]

:lol: they are

[madvlad]

Fuck yeah Dovi!!!! :up: this is going to be a straight showdown till the end, holy shit that did not disappoint

[Gramps]

I usually don't like rain races but damn that was entertaining. Dovi for the win was icing on the cake.

Yamaha has some real issues with that new bike and possibly the bike design in general. I guess that is work for the engineers.

I agree Dean. Nascar should race in the rain.

[Kim-n-Dean]

We were bummed about the rain, and then damn! All the races were great!

That was the first time we've seen GP on beIN. Amazing coverage!

[madvlad]

Yeah in comparison to FS1 is much better coverage. FS1 had horrible coverage, more commercials than actual coverage and zero ads on the BeIn end, races from beginning to end without interruptions. The race looked for a bit there like it cooled down and it would end with the gaps and what not but man did those two give us a show and also the little battle between Zarco, Iannone and Rins.

[The Black Knight]

That was a great race, super happy to see Dovi be able to win and take the fight to Honda and Marquez, cause apparently Yamaha can't.

Seeing those two duke it out to the end shows they are both willing to fight for the title this year. Whomever secures the crown will have earned it. The thing Dovi has going for him is the grunt from that Ducati. He knows he doesn't have to push in corners and make mistakes. He just has to stay close and blow past everyone on the straight, makes it easier and safer.

Good race indeed :up:

[madvlad]

Guess that the whole Zarco pass on Lorenzo is making some serious headlines. What are your guys thought on that?
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2017/10/16/lorenzo-on-zarco-move-he-thinks-he-s-on-the-playstation/242792

[Kristian]

We were bummed about the rain, and then damn! All the races were great!

That was the first time we've seen GP on beIN. Amazing coverage!
When bein took over wsbk, they set the bar for mc racing coverage!

[longrider]

Guess that the whole Zarco pass on Lorenzo is making some serious headlines. What are your guys thought on that?
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2017/10/16/lorenzo-on-zarco-move-he-thinks-he-s-on-the-playstation/242792

It was marginal but I still put it in the 'rubbing is racing' category. Nobody was taken out, it was just a hard pass. Now the rest of the race is one I wont forget

[madvlad]

It was marginal but I still put it in the 'rubbing is racing' category. Nobody was taken out, it was just a hard pass. Now the rest of the race is one I wont forget

Yeah I honestly don't think it was that drastic, as we all know Lorenzo loves to complaint when people fight him in the line as usual, like he's royalty :roll: and yeah Zarco is known for being a balsy guy but I personally didn't see much wrong with that. That race finish was definitely awesome

[The Black Knight]

I didn't think it was that bad of a pass. Zarco is known though for hard passes and he doesn't mind tapping someone. He's had more than one run-in with Rossi this year and a few others. Lorenzo is probably the worse for this to happen to, as he really hates getting bumped. Unless it's Dani Pedrosa, then Lorenzo loves to slam into him for some reason.

I think there was more of an infraction here between Lorenzo and Zarco, than Pedrosa and Rossi in Aragon. Rossi really got slammed by people for Aragon. In my opinion, he had the line and was first down the straight, it's up to the rider passing to get around safely. Why did Pedrosa not just go around on the right, instead of threading the needle on the left??

I do agree, rubbin is racin, and this wasn't much. Though it is harder because it's motorcycles. NASCAR can rub all day long, drivers aren't in the danger that riders are in.

[madvlad]

Seems like the boys in blue may have some fight in them if the race stays dry this weekend

[Okrapp]

Seems like the boys in blue may have some fight in them if the race stays dry this weekend

The bike still doesn't seem as good as pre-season. But in the interest of Valencia being fun, it'd be fun to have MV first with Dovi second or third and 93 off the steps. :D

[madvlad]

Man and the rain fucks it up once again, motherf... happy Dovi took the win but man doesn't look like Lorenzo was going to let him by as even with the "suggested mapping change" he was still running faster and well obviously that near lowside at T15 was not staged to let him by lol... I see Rossi surrendering his seat to Zarco past 2018, there is no way Yamaha will let him renew past that point competitive or not. Zarco and Viñales will be teammates past 2018 imo

[madvlad]

The bike still doesn't seem as good as pre-season. But in the interest of Valencia being fun, it'd be fun to have MV first with Dovi second or third and 93 off the steps. :D

In preseason they were still in the 2016 platform really with the exception of Rossi having the new engine on there. That's the reason why they did well for the first part of the season but once they introduced that 2017 chassis, well the rest is history :lol:

[The Black Knight]

Man and the rain fucks it up once again, motherf... happy Dovi took the win but man doesn't look like Lorenzo was going to let him by as even with the "suggested mapping change" he was still running faster and well obviously that near lowside at T15 was not staged to let him by lol... I see Rossi surrendering his seat to Zarco past 2018, there is no way Yamaha will let him renew past that point competitive or not. Zarco and Viñales will be teammates past 2018 imo

I don't know man, we'll have to wait and see how the factory duo fare on the new bike. I'm sure Yamaha will come up with something to try and see if it works. They will have a 2018 bike ready for the post Valencia race, and that will give them a direction to go.

To me, the problem seemed to be Yamaha lost their way when the temps went up. Their bike started to eat the rear tire and then once they got into a rain situation, they found out their bike has a bad problem with running in the wet. So to me, that points to a chassic problem, and also a problem running with the compulsory software that is available. I don't think Yamaha have done as well with the software compared to Honda or Ducati. You can see Ducati have seemed to benefited from it, since it was Ducati that the software was used as a guinea pig on. So they got a bit of a head start on it.

For me, the 2015 and 2016 bikes were Yamaha's best on offer. The 2015 because of the old factory software that the factories could run, and then the 2016 bike was the best overall package in all environments.

Not sure Rossi will surrender anything to Zarco. Have to look at it, in 2018 if that's Rossi's last year, then 2019 will have someone new. Zarco will be close to 30 by then. I think Yamaha will want to find another "young gun" to work with Vinales. Zarco is fast but he's still not Vinales or Rossi fast. I think, if both Rossi and Vinales were on last year's bike(2016), they would blow Zarco away. Look at last season, P. Espargaro and B. Smith were on the 2015 bike, and couldn't get a sniff of Rossi or Lorenzo. Zarco isn't that good, he's faster than Espargaro and Smith but not alien fast.

I really think the 2017 bike is making Zarco's 2016 bike look fast, because that's just how crappy the 2017 bike is.


In preseason they were still in the 2016 platform really with the exception of Rossi having the new engine on there. That's the reason why they did well for the first part of the season but once they introduced that 2017 chassis, well the rest is history :lol:

Way I understood it, they had the 2017 bike from the get go(pre-season and first few races), and that's why Vinales was so fast. He was on the first iteration of the 2017 bike(which is the bike he liked). Rossi was just having dismal results so they started to tweak the bike(from Le Mans on). From what I gather as well, it hasn't been concrete confirmed but that Vinales has switched back to the earlier model of the 2017 bike and that's why he's doing a little better in the dry. But they still haven't solved the wet problems no matter which bike they guys use.

I'm getting ready to watch the race now, I wasn't going to stay up til 1AM for a race that I knew had a good chance of having rain. So there went the shot of a good dry race. When I woke up around 530 and saw the updates of the race, saw it was a wet one and knew it.

[Spiderman]

... doesn't look like Lorenzo was going to let him by as even with the "suggested mapping change" he was still running faster and well obviously that near lowside at T15 was not staged to let him by lol...
I was wondering about that "suggested mapping change" - was that to give him a little less power just so Dovi could get by? :lol: ... I was also thinking Lorenzo did that on purpose ran too deep into T15), even though the announcers were quite convinced it couldn't have been staged.

[madvlad]

I was wondering about that "suggested mapping change" - was that to give him a little less power just so Dovi could get by? :lol: ... I was also thinking Lorenzo did that on purpose ran too deep into T15), even though the announcers were quite convinced it couldn't have been staged.

The suggested mapping was obviously part of them telling him to back off but even after he did change it he was still running a good pace. That T15 incident was definitely not staged nor anything of that sort, that dude almost lost that fucker lol. I honestly don't think he was going to let him by regardless. Even after the fuck up there he powered that thing down the straight and stayed rather close to Dovi for a while. I genuinely don't think he gave a shit about Dovi and his title chances as we all have known him to go for glory and that win with Ducati would have put him back on Ducatis non shit list, granted also with deciding to also back off I'm sure the big dogs in Bologna probably weren't mad about that either. It's one of those gray areas to be honest but in my eyes I don't think he was going to just let him by, he was going to make Dovi work for it a bit at least. You saw the red scrape of his knee puck all across T15, that was crazy. Not sure how he kept that upright.

[The Black Knight]

The suggested mapping was obviously part of them telling him to back off but even after he did change it he was still running a good pace. That T15 incident was definitely not staged nor anything of that sort, that dude almost lost that fucker lol. I honestly don't think he was going to let him by regardless. Even after the fuck up there he powered that thing down the straight and stayed rather close to Dovi for a while. I genuinely don't think he gave a shit about Dovi and his title chances as we all have known him to go for glory and that win with Ducati would have put him back on Ducatis non shit list, granted also with deciding to also back off I'm sure the big dogs in Bologna probably weren't mad about that either. It's one of those gray areas to be honest but in my eyes I don't think he was going to just let him by, he was going to make Dovi work for it a bit at least. You saw the red scrape of his knee puck all across T15, that was crazy. Not sure how he kept that upright.

I don't think Lorenzo was going to let Dovi by either. Honestly, I wouldn't have held it against Lorenzo either. I'm of the opinion that I think Team Orders stink and shouldn't be in racing. If your main guy can't get it down and pass everyone for the win, then I really get pissed off when teams want riders to throw the race so that the other guy that's in contention for the title can get some more points.

I remember back in 2014 when Aprilia showed the sign to Melandri to let Guintoli by so he could gain more points towards the WSBK crown. Sylvain wasn't fast enough and Melandri had to slow down to let him by. Then Kawasaki did it to Baz, because Sykes wasn't fast enough, so Baz had to let him by.

I just think it's kind of cheesy to make another rider give up their chance for victory, their spot on the top step of the podium just to help out the team. At the end of the day, the team ain't the one riding the bike. Sure they made it all possible to ride the bike and get it to the point of being a winning bike, but at the end of the day, there's only one guy that rides it.

[Gramps]

Well here we are. I think the championship is pretty easy to predict but I'm still rooting for Dovi to win it.

What are your predictions?

[salsashark]

^^ My thoughts as well... I think it's a tall ask, but would love to see Dovi take it home... for both him and Ducati.

[madvlad]

God man, what a whack ass way to finish this season... Lorenzo shows the true bitch that he is yet again and sucks that Dovi had to pay the price. Lorenzo is going to get his ass reamed by Ducati when he goes back to the garage. What a heartbreaker for Dovi man, very upsetting. Gigi a true class act and went out to congratulate his team and also the HRC side.

[The Black Knight]

God man, what a whack ass way to finish this season... Lorenzo shows the true bitch that he is yet again and sucks that Dovi had to pay the price. Lorenzo is going to get his ass reamed by Ducati when he goes back to the garage. What a heartbreaker for Dovi man, very upsetting. Gigi a true class act and went out to congratulate his team and also the HRC side.

Thing is, as much as I don't like Lorenzo, he earned my respect today for not giving in to stupid team orders. Let's face it, Dovi didn't have the speed to challenge for anything today. Even he knew he didn't have it in all of the FP's and his Q2 wasn't that great. So while I was hoping Dovi would have found some speed to at least challenge for the win, it wasn't to be and he didn't have it today. I don't really think that if Lorenzo let him by, that Dovi had anything for the front three either. He may have tried to get a sniff of Pedrosa, but Dani and Zarco were just faster today. So Lorenzo earned my respect today because at the end of the day, he's still racing for positions, wins and points as well. The one trump card Lorenzo has in his pocket for when Ducati brass chew his ass, all he has to say, "Dovi should have been faster today." And that's really the only truth there is. Dovi should have been faster.

Big congrats to Dani Pedrosa!! Love that he took the win from Zarco. I don't like Zarco one bit and enjoyed watching him lose that race.

And another big congrats and thumbs up to Factory Team Yamaha!! Not only did you get your asses rammed by an overrated guy on "last year's" bike, but you did it with such style. I mean 5th and what 12th?? Damn!! those are results that can be built upon. Can we get more of the same for next year please?? Because this is how championships and races get won.... Errr wait a minute?? You guys didn't win, oh that's right. Team Yamaha was all of f**king no where close to the podium today!! Bravo gentlemen, bravo...

Congrats to Suzuki with Rins taking that 4th. If I'm not mistaken he and P. Espagaro started from the pit lane. Damn, to go from last to 4th is a good result, he even passed the Factory Yamaha's in the process. Oops did I say that??

It's a bummer for Dovi, I had hopes he could do it. I wanted him to win for him, not for Ducati. Still love that Ducati got slapped down today in principle.

Oh well, bring on 2018. Objective is clear for everyone in 2018, just be faster than the Honda and Marquez.

[madvlad]

I disagree, I'm sure if Lorenzo would have been in Dovi's shoes, it would have been him bitching and moaning, throwing tantrums like he always does. Lorenzo was controlling the pace and disrupting Dovizioso, it's more than obvious. Rossi like Dovi always find something special come race day, Dovi was turning faster than him about mid race which is when the messages started to come on and he disregarded. He signed his sentence at Ducati already, the brass here is much different than the ones at Yamaha. At Yamaha he got away with it all. Given that Dovi is obviously rider #1, Lorenzo has a lot to lose here but as usual, he doesn't think because he's an arrogant prick and thinks the world revolves around him. There was a reason the message came up and even in his pit board, Dovi was starting to cook up but this moron interrupted him and stuck his nose where he shouldn't have. It is what it is now on this end... as far as Yamaha goes, they have a long off season of work to make a credible bike again, it's incredible how far off the reservation they went with this bike and the worst of it is that they decided to carry on with it when both Vale and Viñales had chances of contending not too long ago.