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View Full Version : Aftermarket Exhausts - Got one? Want one? Consider this...



Spiderman
Sat May 27th, 2006, 12:02 AM
As much as you like the sound of an aftermarket exhaust, or as much as you like the extra power it gives you, it may not be worth it in the long run. :|

This is from the March edition of American Motorcyclist magazine - the magazine that comes free with your membership in the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) (http://www.ama-cycle.org/).

Click here if you find the following image too difficult to read (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/images/AMA/SoundBites/p1.jpg)

http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/images/AMA/SoundBites/p1_640w.jpg

Read more:
page 2 (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/images/AMA/SoundBites/p2.jpg)
page 3 (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/images/AMA/SoundBites/p3.jpg)
page 4 (http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/images/AMA/SoundBites/p4.jpg)

SS929
Sat May 27th, 2006, 09:08 PM
But some times the only reason I think people around me know about me is because my bike makes some noise. I would hope is below 80db even at WOT but I have no way of really knowing for sure.

R1chie
Sun May 28th, 2006, 07:28 AM
The problem has been around for some time. The Springs already have laws in place that state if you have anything other than stock you can get a ticket. The db level makes no difference, the officers do not have to carry a db meter. If it sounds "too loud" for them, they can pull you over. If they see it is not stock, they can give you a ticket. The stock exhaust is too loud now but people have to tolerate it, but as people make their bikes and cars louder with aftermarket, you will see new laws to make stock even quieter. Making aftermarket even more offensive. Even the "off-road or closed course" sticker will not mean much because even racetracks and off-road are feeling the effects of people saying no to loud vehicles if the race track or off road area is within ear shot of them. This may not seem fair but loud exhaust system infringe on everyone’s rights and are annoying at least. The "loud pipes save lives" argument is quickly losing support. Be considerate of others, do not ride with loud pipes or more laws will be passed to rid people of the problem completely. Simple as that.

King Nothing
Sun May 28th, 2006, 08:30 AM
I'm gonna get a system so loud it will destroy the world!

Mac020
Sun May 28th, 2006, 09:10 AM
I think the carbon fiber Tremi's are actually quieter than the stock Termi's that came with my bike. 8)

R1chie
Sun May 28th, 2006, 09:36 AM
I think the carbon fiber Tremi's are actually quieter than the stock Termi's that came with my bike. 8)

Doesn't matter, you can still get a ticket if it is not stock. Because of the people who ride with loud pipes without thinking how it affects other people, this city has a law that now give cops free reign to write tickets to anyone with a non stock pipe no matter what the DB rating is. People can joke about it but it is becoming a much bigger issue that now affect everyone in CS but it will continue as long as people continue to buy pipes that are not meant for street riding because of noise level.

Mac020
Sun May 28th, 2006, 12:37 PM
I know, but how's yer average popo gonna know the differance between stock Termi's and the carbon fiber ones, or even if the stock ones are even stock? I doesn't say anything about it on the cans. Guess it would be my responsibility to defend a ticket if I get one. Thing is, is that I try not to create an excessive amount of noise by racing my engine or doing squidly stuff in or around neighborhoods anyway. Hell I've heard steros that are louder and more annoying than my bike. And I'll bet my bike is quieter than most Harley's (Faster too! :lol: ) Oh, I forgot about how much noise my clutch makes.:(

Zanos
Sun May 28th, 2006, 02:51 PM
A Hardley is louder than any sportbike i feel. And those are mostly stock off the show room floor....

To Richie...
What do we do about the Hardley's that are louder than our streetbikes stock? Should we get mad at them? Should we tell them to add aftermarket to make it SILENT? Should we change the stock of th Hardley to not cause it to be loud?

And like they say..
Loud pipes save lives.

I think it is true, because there are times where someone has not been able to see a bike, but know its there. Where as if i am behind them, they can not hear me at all. And with all the stupid drivers on the road nowadays. Anything that saves a riders life or prevents a hospital visit should be legal.

Now if you are up and down the street with you loud pipes pissing off your neighborhood, thats a little different. But driving by? Come on now.

FZRguy
Sun May 28th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Loud pipes have nothing to do with safety. It’s your brain and your level of skill that determines your personal safety while on two wheels.

Mel
Sun May 28th, 2006, 07:33 PM
You know, I (personally) agree with the gist of that, i.e. that we don't need to do any more to piss off the general public. However, most all aftermarket exhausts on a sport bike are still quieter (db lever) than a Harley or similarly displaced V-twin...while I concur that SOME people with SOME exhausts will piss people off, I don't think it is the guy who commutes to work and does the occasional canyon ride with his aftermarket exhaust that pisses people off. It is the squids in traffic who pull wheelies or sit an rev their bikes at lights (no matter what exhaust) that kill the "sportbike cause".

R1chie
Sun May 28th, 2006, 07:40 PM
\To Richie...
What do we do about the Hardley's that are louder than our streetbikes stock? Should we get mad at them? Should we tell them to add aftermarket to make it SILENT? Should we change the stock of th Hardley to not cause it to be loud?

.
A new saying is emerging "loud pipes risk rights" and I would have to agree. Some people believe the perception is often more important than reality.

Human hearing is most sensitive at 2k-5khz http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/EARS.htm

As shown in the subjective loudness chart fig.3
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/tech_background/TE-03/teces_03.html

In this article it is noted "Note that a motorcycle with a deep "clean" note will have the energy level discounted in the test, but a motorcycle with higher frequencies in the exhaust note may not only fail the test, be also be "annoying'. Here we have the reason why "trail bike noise" is marked for attention by authorities, yet ordinary street registered machines mostly pass unnoticed by the general population - unless surprised by it, or in a very quiet location where any noise would be a disturbance"
http://www.mccofnsw.org.au/a/117.html

It would seem that the general population are more offended by the higher frequency sounding bikes, (two stroke dirt bikes are more annoying than 4 strokes of similar db levels and high revving 4 stroke sportbike engines are more annoying than that slower revving Harley 4 strokes.

So IMHO it does not matter if we are "mad at them". It matters if the public is mad at them or mad at us. B

Stock Harleys have to meet the same EPA standards that sportbikes do. (Link below) "The federal Environmental Protection Agency limits decibel levels to 80 decibels for on-highway bikes, 82 decibels for off-road bikes and 78 decibels for automobiles, according to an article published by the Motorcycle Riders Foundation"

In the article below it states ""If it sounds loud, it's probably illegal," Gibbs said. "I don't know if we (police officers) have more of a trained ear, but loud is loud.
"If it's drawing attention to officers, I expect they'll pull 'em over to determine if they have a loud exhaust system. "If they determine it is, they'll issue a ticket," Gibbs said"

Also, even with a stock exhaust, if you run in a neighborhood with either a Harley or a sportbike at 45mph in first gear and at full throttle acceleration the bike is producing the max amount of noise and is probably heard even inside houses. When doing this, the exhaust and intake noise are much higher than what is probably tested as a norm. (Testing is not standard, how many feet away from the bike, at idle/5th gear cruising or full throttle acceleration change the loudness substantially.
http://www.gazetteextra.com/pipes052106.asp

I am not expert but if you are going to get mad at people, get mad at people who get a loud exhaust system, start it, rev it at 5am in the morning, ride the bike "on the pipe" all the time especially in neighborhoods at full throttle accelerate to get peoples attention. They get the attention as people turn their heads pissed off because some idiot is disturbing the peace and quiet. It is bad attention and it has affected our laws to the point that if the police even think it is too loud.. It is and you get a ticket.

Butterfly
Sun May 28th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Where's my popcorn, this is getting good :bananna:

R1chie
Mon May 29th, 2006, 01:57 AM
Where's my popcorn, this is getting good :bananna:

It is a very subjective post. I tried to support my position with some web info but really statements like, people find one motorcycle sound more offensive than the other is very subjective. Zanos has a point. Shouldn't Harley riders have to quiet down? I found that sound can be offensive too but IMHO the sound problem is only going to get worse for street/dirt competition and non competition alike. His point also shows that his ears find after market Harleys louder than sportbikes seems also to be true (straight through) because again it is subjective. My point is the problem is bad enough that in the Springs, gov has given police the ability to decide what is too loud without any type of testing. A guilty until you prove yourself innocent approach in regards to if an officer thinks you are too loud and once they discover your pipes have been modified, you are ticketed. The other debate is this actually an attempt to quiet vehicles or to generate revenue. The pursuit of happiness seems always threatened and squelched by anyone who is offended easily or by government trying to generate revenue. So who best to keep them off our backs, the manufacturers to make quieter bikes? To some extent, but clearly it seems to me the most effective method is to show them courtesy by not installing loud pipes and then running up and down the neighborhood and in the city at 12k rpm in first gear.

Bueller
Mon May 29th, 2006, 06:45 AM
Harley is discontinuing the "Screaming Eagle" and the Buell "Pro Race" line of factory exhausts and will no longer install these (and other aftermarket) exhausts at the dealerships. This is a direct result of the excessive noise problems that they are associated with. The company is looking to limit it's liability in this respect. Any aftermarket loud pipes will be the sole responsibility of the individual owners.
I know I have used my pipe to get the attention of idiot cagers, but more often than not it has been after they pulled a bone head move, and I am letting them know that I was there. Rarely does it prevent an incident.

Zanos
Mon May 29th, 2006, 04:31 PM
Very interesting and enlightening post. Richie. Thanks. I understand what you mean. And im not arguing with you. I just wanted you to say just that. A lot of that stuff i did not know.

My point again was: "Why are they picking on our aftermarket exhausts and not Harleys stock." Which you explained.

Thanks richie.

pg_rider
Mon May 29th, 2006, 07:34 PM
How can anyone NOT love the sound of a screaming inline-4? I mean really! Now, the sound of a tract-- er, I mean V-twin -- makes me want to put a bullet in my head, but I could listen to an inline-4 at redline all day and not get sick of it.... :)

rforsythe
Mon May 29th, 2006, 07:47 PM
I'm gonna get a system so loud it will destroy the world!

So you're gonna strap Bertha's ass to your bike? :dunno:

Bueller
Mon May 29th, 2006, 07:47 PM
Now, the sound of a tract-- er, I mean V-twin -- makes me want to put a bullet in my head


Come to one of the races, and when SuperTwins GTO runs no one would even hear the shot :D

SS929
Mon May 29th, 2006, 08:19 PM
I'm not sure how many of you have been in or around Sturgis during the Rally. I grew up in Rapid City, 32 miles from Sturgis. I can tell you that the noise of those bikes is insane. The whole purpose of most Harley exhaust systems is to draw attention to the bike. I personally feel that they are much loader and more aggrivating than my sports bike.
My father has a 64 Harley 250 spring isn't so bad, but his 71 BSA 650 Lightning with straight pipes is stupid loud. I grew up on hondas and they are fairly quiet compared to the kawis and other misc stuff my brothers had. Like Rich said its mostly preception that will get us in the long run.
I think my proverb has a specail meaning to this post.

freezincold
Tue May 30th, 2006, 09:50 AM
I'm gonna get a system so loud it will destroy the world!


hahaha!

CYCLE_MONKEY
Tue May 30th, 2006, 11:51 AM
Sorry to disappoint you R1CH, but your referenced articles are BS, irrelevant, and meaningless. In fact, one looks doctored with the "clear low tone" BS at the bottom. There was no legitimate comparison with Hardleys and sportbikes, measuring frequency-spectrum and energy. And so, it's all irrelevant.

I'm sure 90% of the problem is those ass holes on their straight-piped Hardleys at full throttle wherever they go. 'Course, if you've only got 60hp max, maybe it HAS to be full throttle everywhere!

Lee
Tue May 30th, 2006, 12:10 PM
A brief note about the Suzuki K5 and K6:

The intakes seem to be louder than the exhaust when the throttle is well open. I thought it was just my imagination, then I noted a reviewer in a motorcycle magazine had the same comment; he went on to remark that none of the other liter bikes he tested exhibited this characteristic.

The intakes are loud enough that I can hear them above wind noise at 150+ mph. I wonder if the sound they produce is exempt from Federal noise standards?

Lee

Lee
Tue May 30th, 2006, 12:13 PM
I'm sure 90% of the problem is those ass holes on their straight-piped Hardleys at full throttle wherever they go. 'Course, if you've only got 60hp max, maybe it HAS to be full throttle everywhere!

If you put too quiet an exhaust on them, the engine might not run. :)

Lee

R1chie
Sat Jun 3rd, 2006, 03:59 PM
Sorry to disappoint you R1CH, but your referenced articles are BS, irrelevant, and meaningless. In fact, one looks doctored with the "clear low tone" BS at the bottom. There was no legitimate comparison with Hardleys and sportbikes, measuring frequency-spectrum and energy. And so, it's all irrelevant.

I'm sure 90% of the problem is those ass holes on their straight-piped Hardleys at full throttle wherever they go. 'Course, if you've only got 60hp max, maybe it HAS to be full throttle everywhere!

I pull up articles that at least give my side a little weight, you say it is meaningless and no ever make a point or substantiate that point in any way. Sorry to disappoint Monkey but your opinion is irrelevant because you don't even have one or anything to substantiate the opinion you think you have. Where did you get 90% number? You can speak for 90% of the population without even a poll or study to back it up? As a matter of fact one looks like it is doctored? What does that mean it is a fact they you have some perception the authenticity and accuracy of the article with no proof LOL. Besides not wanting to get a ticket, my pipes are stock because I don't want to have to hear that noise in my helmet all through the ride let alone bother other people. I give you a B (for BS :))

rlarsen
Sat Jun 3rd, 2006, 09:19 PM
A brief note about the Suzuki K5 and K6:

The intakes seem to be louder than the exhaust when the throttle is well open. I thought it was just my imagination, then I noted a reviewer in a motorcycle magazine had the same comment; he went on to remark that none of the other liter bikes he tested exhibited this characteristic.

The intakes are loud enough that I can hear them above wind noise at 150+ mph. I wonder if the sound they produce is exempt from Federal noise standards?

Lee


You're not kidding. I thought I was crazy until I realized I really WAS hearing nothing but intake noise when I was about 6000RPM on my K6. Even with an aftermarket slip-on, I can barely hear the exhaust over the intake at the same RPM range. It's really not unpeasant though, and I doubt would garner a lot of complaints on the "annoyance" scale.

Spiderman
Tue Jun 6th, 2006, 05:03 PM
A new saying is emerging "loud pipes risk rights" and I would have to agree. Some people believe the perception is often more important than reality.Thank you, Rich. That's exactly why I posted this article.

And people, it doesn't matter if YOU think Harley's are louder - this isn't US vs. THEM - it's aimed at all motorcyclists, dirt and street. I'm not pointing fingers - I posted it here to try and raise awareness in the sportbike community.

Personally, I much prefer the sound of a screaming inline-4 to that of a loud v-twin (and I've been annoyed by more than a few loud v-twins), but as far as who is louder/more annoying, this is my experience:
A straight-piped Harley at full-throttle may be annoying as it approaches and even moreso as it passes, but once it's past, the annoying factor decreases rather quickly. A sportbike with a full-system at full throttle, IMHO, isn't as annoying on the approach, but as it passes it's painfully annoying (I was standing trackside along La Junta's straight this past weekend during several races, so trust me :shock: ), and it can be heard long into the distance, meaning the annoying factor doesn't decrease nearly as quickly as it does for a Harley.

Audiophiles already know that bass requires more wattage than treble so it can be enjoyed at the same level as treble, but bass is felt more than it is heard when amplified like that. Apply that same wattage to treble, and you get sounds that are painful and damaging.

I live less than a mile from C-470, and I've never noted hearing a straight-piped harley rolling past near my house. I have, however, on many occasions, heard the whine of inline-4's with aftermarket exhausts last seemingly forever.

The bottom line is, if you're thinking about getting an aftermarket exhaust, whether it be a slip-on or full system, consider that our right to ride may be revoked or reduced if we piss off enough people. And if you still decide to get that aftermarket exhaust, or you already have one, please be considerate of the people around you, and keep the revs low when riding in residential areas, or anywhere where there's a lot of people.

It's time to stop thinking

"[strike:6abe6ba0b9]Loud Pipes Save Lives[/strike:6abe6ba0b9]",

and start thinking:

"Ride Like You're Invisible, NOT Like You're Invincible"

8)

livinlife2themax
Thu Jun 15th, 2006, 04:58 PM
"Well officer see what had happened was i was tryin to get out of the way of that crazy guy on 4 wheels. That is why i was speeding and my bike was so loud."

dapper
Thu Jun 15th, 2006, 07:53 PM
If you have the paperwork on the exhaust that says it's DOT legal, the ticket will be dismissed.

Siren's are on emergency vehicles for awareness, I hear them coming. Most people will hear the siren too.

Exhausts on bikes can help for awareness, even allows some of the day dreamers to hear them. :D

Open pipes are hated by most peeps, especially the hung over peeps. :roll:

Hypothetically, my Yosh system has decreased the car vs bike tango dancing. Defensive riding with my brakes and throttle obviously are involved too.

Failure is quickly accomplished by the attempt to please everyone. :P (Oldie but goody)

JerseyMark
Fri Jun 16th, 2006, 10:28 PM
The exhaust discussion is very interesting. Just a little information to support R1chie, the NHTSA reports that 76% of motorcycles involved in two-vehicle accidents were impacted from the front. 5% of the accidents were impacted from the rear. Because exhaust is facing the rear, loud mufflers have little affect on alerting other drivers. Especially oncoming and other directional traffic.

Colorado Statue 42-4-225 Mufflers-Prevention of Noise: Every motor vehicle subject to registration and operated on a highway shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and no such muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cut-off, bypass, or similar device. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the motor of such vehicle above that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle, and such original muffler shall comply with all of the requirements of this section.

kpp80202
Sat Jun 17th, 2006, 10:35 AM
I think the only benefit of loud pipes is to let the driver next to you know you are there before they change lanes. Of course, you shouldn't hang out in that spot anyway, so...

Personally, I like the more gutteral sounds aftermarket pipes, and NOT the increased volume.

SpecialED
Fri Jun 23rd, 2006, 08:36 PM
I think the only benefit of loud pipes is to let the driver next to you know you are there before they change lanes. Of course, you shouldn't hang out in that spot anyway, so...

Personally, I like the more gutteral sounds aftermarket pipes, and NOT the increased volume.

Agreed. Too bad it's virtually impossible to make a pipe that adds significantly more power w/o any additional noise. I'd buy that.

RyGuy
Sat Jun 24th, 2006, 02:19 PM
I'll put in my .02 on this issue. First off, I think that cops (I don't care where they are) have really no place to even think about ticketing a sport bike for exhaust being "too loud" without going after these guys on their Harleys, choppers, etc, which are so loud that in my buddy's 4Runner the other day (which has a bitchin' system in it) we were listening to music at a pretty high volume- to the point that we couldn't really talk to eachother, and we get passed by this Softtail that was so loud we couldn't hear the music. Now, is that a reasonable noise level? NO! Why do these guys all have such loud bikes? I don't see a point, louder doesn't mean more badass, it means more headache. The loud bikes save lives bit, like R1chie says, is quickly fading. If you ask me, I think that these insanely loud bikes are a hazard to their health because I'm to the point where I'm gonna put a nice .40 caliber sized hole thru their gas tank if they keep riding by my apartment at 3am! My CBR isn't loud and it's still a kickass bike, so wtf is the deal with joe schmo's Harley having to be earth shakingly loud to be cool? Just my opinion, don't like it? Move to Iran.

wulf
Mon Jul 3rd, 2006, 09:52 PM
if you read that law, it says that you can mod your exhaust to make it not as loud, it does not say at what rpm and etc.

So Mac020 would be perfectly in his rights R1chie.

However, if you use a little throttle control, you can help with the sound issues.

That being said, this law sucks.

Bueller
Mon Jul 3rd, 2006, 10:03 PM
Just my opinion, don't like it? Move to Iran.

One of the nice things about living in this country is, I can disagree with your half baked opinion, and I can stay here and continue to pay my taxes like a good little lemming.

InlineSIX24
Tue Jul 18th, 2006, 08:18 AM
Not to mention that if you move to Iran they have new noise ordinances on the rockets that they supply Hizballah with. You just can't win anywhere these days.

R1chie
Tue Jul 18th, 2006, 10:45 AM
if you read that law, it says that you can mod your exhaust to make it not as loud, it does not say at what rpm and etc.
So Mac020 would be perfectly in his rights R1chie.
However, if you use a little throttle control, you can help with the sound issues.
That being said, this law sucks.

I am not sure about the laws in your area but in Colorado Springs I know that you can mod all you want, but if they pull you over because they even think it is too loud and notice you have modified it they can give you a ticket without a DB meter. This is a valid reason why someone might say "Colorado Springs sucks and I would not want to live there" but the other side of the coin is that it tickets those who are offensive by using overyly loud pipes in city limits. The law below covers loud pipes, boom trucks, loud stereos, car alarms, well you can read it for yourself..

A. It is unlawful to make, create, or permit an excessive or unusually loud noise, or a noise which endangers public safety, or a noise which is harmful to any person, which can be heard without the use of an electronic measurement device or heard and measured in the manner prescribed in section 9.8.103 of this part; except when made under and in compliance with a permit issued pursuant to section 9.8.109 of this part.
http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/cities/co/cosprings_co.htm

firefghtr
Sat Sep 30th, 2006, 07:31 PM
if you dont like the noise, who cares.... i do

DiddysR6
Mon Oct 2nd, 2006, 02:20 AM
All I have to say is D&D pipes! :banghead:

BHeth
Mon Oct 2nd, 2006, 04:53 AM
Wow, I forgot about this thread. Has anyone actually been issued a ticket?

giovannir6
Wed Oct 11th, 2006, 12:35 PM
Yeah but the sound is worth every penny, unless your doing something illegal then not so cool.

My$.02

macktastic brake grabber
Wed Oct 11th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Loud pipes have nothing to do with safety. It’s your brain and your level of skill that determines your personal safety while on two wheels.

you know john i like you but that staement is BULLSHIT

i have stock pipes on my harley and i constantly have people right next to me shange into my lane because they dont look and they dont hear me. this summer i had a woman in a bmw directly next to me with her sun roof all the way open just run me right out of my lane. i didnt have anywhere to go so i had to split the lanes and lock up my rear and damn near locked up mt front to avoid getting hit. this is just one example of several in the last year .
if i am just cruising my bike is very quiet. more so than my old cbr 600 with a stock pipe.
i have had many times that i was driving my truck and about to change lanes to the left and i heard a loud ass harley or sport bike coming from behind me and it saved me from hitting them. i would say this has happened at least 30 times in the last ten years.
in all the cases that i was almost hit i was riding very safe , very alert and doing the speed limit or going with the flow of traffic.



there has to be a middle ground and it is a fact that loud pipes save many lives so do helmets and gear and so on yada yada
nuff
mack

macktastic brake grabber
Wed Oct 11th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Very interesting and enlightening post. Richie. Thanks. I understand what you mean. And im not arguing with you. I just wanted you to say just that. A lot of that stuff i did not know.

My point again was: "Why are they picking on our aftermarket exhausts and not Harleys stock." Which you explained.

Thanks richie.
they are picking on sport bike in general because of all the jackass publicity that the media have been able to collect from the sqids agreeing to be filmed doing wheelies on I-70 and stupid shit like that. i got pulled over all the time on my sport bike and since i bought my screaming eagle fat boy the cops wave at me as i speed by them. btw. i have factory pipes that are very quiet.
mack

No-coast-punk
Wed Oct 25th, 2006, 02:02 AM
A small minority of assholes ruining a good thing for the majority of the people is nothing new.

It is our responsibility as a community to dictate community standards. See some kid acting like a tool in traffic? Catch him at the next light and tell him he's acting like a tool. Enough people make fun of him and he may get the message. Asking people to leave meets that are drawing un-necessary attention is another great step.

I am probably as far from a fan of the pigs as it gets. That being said, there are enough people out there being complete retards on bikes of all sorts that I even get annoyed at the behavior of riders at times. It's not as if the pigs woke up one day with a hair up their ass about bikes. This is entirely our fault as a community. We can either stand up and take responsibility and police ourselves. Or wait until things get legislated to the point of what the Italians have to go through. In that part of the world it's so bad that simply REMOVING OEM REFLECTORS gives a pig the option to impound a bike on the spot.

Personally I like my titanium cans and the way they sound. I'd like to retain the ability to leave my driveway with said exhaust without getting 4 tickets before reaching the grocery store. As a result I keep 'em both on the ground when there are people around that might take exception. I also damn well make sure I keep the rev's as low as humanly possible when on surface streets. If we all behaved liked this the harrassment by the pigs would go away.

As for the power thing. Do some reading on the relationship between HP/torque. Do you really think those smart little asian men would go through all the trouble and expense of developing these super exotic engine technologies, only to slap on a restrictive exhaust system? It is possible to have an extremely free flowing system that is also quiet. Problem is that it has to be very large and heavy (look at the cans on a 'busa or ZX-14). All an aftermarket slip on does with ultra modern bikes is to increase VE at high RPM at the expense of VE at lower RPM. On paper HP increased, but torque remained the same. It just shifted the powerband higher without actually really increasing power. Full aftermarket systems are much the same. They just play tricks with where peak VE happens. Any increases in torque usually result from elimination of smog controls like cats. Extremely well designed slip on systems can result in miniscule torque increases, but nothing to write home about. Full systems can increase torque SLIGHTLY within a VERY narrow RPM range. Once again at the expense of power outside of that range. As time goes on and the manufacturers keep producing better and better factory exhausts there will be almost 0 performance boost from going with aftermarket systems. The real increases in power these days come from changing how the engine behaves with computer gadgets or headwork etc.

V-Twin Villain
Wed Oct 25th, 2006, 09:07 AM
I have a V-twin and a sportbike, both with exhaust systems. I lived in the "Springs" for three years and It has helped learn to tip toe around. We must be smart riders, and inform others of this issue. I would hate to have to put my stock exhaust back on. I know Harley has stopped selling aftermarket exhausts, and the stock exhaust conforms to Cali standards. Does anyone know what other aftermarket manufactures are doing decause of this issue? Also, is anyone a active member of AMA? I heard they are all for shuting down the noise, is that true?

Carlsbad
Sat Dec 23rd, 2006, 06:15 PM
I would think that the issue is primarily with Hardleys and 20 y.o. idiots going WFO in the wrong places.

I could easily rant for days about how I loathe Hardleys, how godawful loud most of them are, and the bulk of chumps that ride them - but I'll save that for the proper thread :)

American303
Mon Jan 22nd, 2007, 08:30 PM
If i see another 16 year old ride by with a d & d wrapped up to 8,000 rpm ill lose it.

dillinger09
Tue Feb 6th, 2007, 01:00 PM
any of you guys running dual duty on your street bikes (track and street)? im pretty sure that you cannot run a stock exhaust with race plastics on the r6 and im assuming that to be the case for the newer suzi's. so that kinda screws those of us with that issue

Spiderman
Tue Feb 6th, 2007, 04:03 PM
im pretty sure that you cannot run a stock exhaust with race plastics on the r6 and im assuming that to be the case for the newer suzi's.
Depends on the bike... race bodywork for some of the newer bikes may not have enough clearance with catalytic converters on the stock exhaust and might burn through the bodywork. :|

dillinger09
Wed Feb 7th, 2007, 09:20 AM
Depends on the bike... race bodywork for some of the newer bikes may not have enough clearance with catalytic converters on the stock exhaust and might burn through the bodywork. :|

exactly and i dont really want to spend any money on the exhaust right now. i have more important things like suspension to sort out first..............maybe i can just modify the plastics:banghead:

bluedogok
Thu Feb 8th, 2007, 07:30 PM
There is a motor officer I know (who rides a V-Strom) who quit writing excessive noise tickets because they were always dismissed. The H-D guys were showing up with lawyers so the judges threw them out rather than lose on appeall due to technicalities.

More jurisdictions are going to the "stamp" standard instead of a "dB level at so many feet" because it is easier to enforce and less open to interpetation. According to the EPA all "off-road exhaust" are supposed to be stamped that way all the officer has to do is inspect the can to look for those words so it makes it easier. I know of some cruiser folks who are trying to put together a network of stock pipes to swap for inspections because that is the next thing coming into effect here.

Jackal
Sat Feb 10th, 2007, 04:55 PM
Intolerant assholes would have every right we are still clinging onto ripped away from us. There are groups of people that would like to see fast motorcycles made illegal, bicycles illegal on public roads, large dogs illegal to own as pets, etc. Of course theres no stopping them eventually you won't be able to do anything but go to work, buy some groceries on the way home and watch state selected viewing on your television once you get home, and read state selected books.

gdurfey
Fri Feb 16th, 2007, 01:02 PM
All new harleys coming off the showroom floor have an exhaust with some type of manufacturer's number on them, or the words DOT approved, or some such...just like the sport bikes. I am annoyed by both camps who run excessive noise!!! And yep, whoever said it is the 20% idiots thar ruin it for all of us is right. They ride all types..... and by the way, I prefer my v-twin to all the inline fours for my personal riding style....the Duc 900 SS and my SV1KS!!!!! Yes, AMA is hot on this because it effects rights. Streets and parks have been closed to motorcyclists because of that 20% mentioned above and the councilmen setting the rules lump us all together.

As a MSF instructor, there is NO scientific evidence that loud pipes save lives. Loud noises wake up drivers at times, some times they don't. As a defensive posture, I run with my thumb on the horn button at times...and my air horns on the old Wingabago scared the ever living pee out of a few drivers. And the horn is legal!!!!

I love the evidence and I appreciate the article from AMA being posted. On of my friends on a V-twin Cruiser got pulled over and given a warning.....twice. He bought the bike and it had aftermarket pipes on it already. One of those things and he tries to ride it quietly without drawing attention to it. It effects everyone. So, if we ride 2 wheels, why the hate?????????

just curious. Oh, I just put Microns on my SV1KS, so I will see if I get in trouble. They look great....sound great, but I know I am pushing the limit. But I also know how to ride in town reasonably!!! Thanks R1chie....great info.

on the other side.....

ccdirtrider05
Tue May 29th, 2007, 12:18 AM
i have a street bike and its got the stock exhaust and in my opinion its quiet.. granted when im rolling at 8k its pretty loud its the stock factory can. I had an older gentleman in his truck follow me all the way to my house and proceded to chew my ass for having a loud bike and tearing the very fabric of the neighborhoods tranquility and peacefulness. come to find out he owns two Harleys, both with modified exhaust, very loud to boot... now i could care less as long as he isnt at my window revving. i live near I25 and deal with noise all day and all night, and i did like the sounds of his bikes, even though i hate harleys.. i stopped by and he didnt even hear me rev my bike and pull into his driveway and i couldnt hear my bike over his idleing.. i asked the expected, "what the hell?! yours is twice as loud as mine so why you yellin at me... within in the first minute i heard many a foul word and the term "riceburner" countless times, followed by a "get the hell out of here!"

im not so sure its the fact that noise bothers people, but as mentioned above a few times earlier, the type of noise and the person...
he didnt like the type of noise my bike had and had reported me a few times for it.. its just a simple fact that no matter how quiet or loud your ride is.. someone, somewhere, at some point in time will be pissed off about it.. only problem is streetbikes have the bad rap put on us by thos select people who decide to do illegal stuff all over and make nuisances of them selves so there are more people upset at us than at the harley riders.. same with dirtbikes too.. there are the ones who ride fast in vacant lots and fields where they arent supposed to be at in the first place so they get more complaints and therefore are targeted more so than the cruisers. we are pretty much on the shit list of many people so we should just try harder to keep a better name for ourselves for being respectable riders..
i take a certian level or pride in telling people i belong to CSC, and not some of the other groups in town which i wont name. granted this group has its problems, everyone ive met so far have been very helpful, and respectable and most importantly safe, which is a hell of alot more than i can say for the other sport groups around

budwsr
Fri Jul 6th, 2007, 06:42 PM
The bottom line is there are those people who do not like something and have spare time or the energy and will go out of their way to make life difficult for those people , weather or not they are law abidding citizens or those nasty law breakers ( the later getting more attention) .
The empty can rattles the most ya know?

MisterAl
Fri Jul 6th, 2007, 08:05 PM
So with the Denver Ordinance will the popo be carrying devices to measure the amount of DB's produced by your bike or will it be a judgement call by the police? Just a question, how's the police supposed to know?

TMP
Sun Jul 8th, 2007, 11:09 AM
The Denver law which was passed JULY 1 says you must have the EPA stamp or it is a $500 ticket. As far as I'm concerned this is bullshit. There is already a law on the books that states: 80db at 25ft...... but the city doesn't enforce it. Now we have to deal with this crap. Who the hell lives in a city and complains about noise??????????

Kawi250
Thu Jul 12th, 2007, 09:03 PM
BE RESPONSABLE! That’s what it comes down to! Stock, aftermarket, Import, Harley! Whatever! We are all motorcyclists; Denver is pointing the finger at us! I have a RC51 Yosh Highs, 80db at idle and 100db at 5000 rpm. That’s offset 45 degrees and 3 feet away! I understand my bike is loud, and RESPECT other people around me! I was pulled over the other day by TPD for the officer not noticing my plate, he commented that he could tell I was a good rider and couldn’t believe how quiet my pipes were. It’s all about how you present yourself! Noise Ordinance whatever! I just wish it would be across the board! Pan-Pans, Muscle Cars, DESIL TRUCKS(private, and commercial) Car Sterols, do it for 1 do it for all! The reason I brought up TPD is they are looking for loud pipes too, the officer said he looks for it too! Just be aware and be responsible!

Crashdaddy
Wed Jul 25th, 2007, 06:07 PM
What it really comes down to is the jackasses running their bikes (Harleys, Suzukis, Kawasakis, Yamahas, Ducatis: It just does not matter what brand) up and down the streets of downtown Denver at all hours of the night. They seem to have some things in common. They have ridiculously loud exhaust, they want everybody to know it, and they want to impress us with their obvious riding abilities (they just have to be better riders than Valentino, I mean look at 'em!).

The other common thread is the amount of money the residents downtown have paid for those luxury lofts. A hell of a lot. Money=influence. How many times do you figure the owner of a million dollar downtown loft needs to complain to a city councilperson before a new ordinance is passed?

Db meters are not required by any officers. It has been against federal law to modify your stock exhaust for quite some time. It just was not enforced. Now the Denver cops have this new ordinance and are just looking for the EPA stamp that is only on EPA approved exhaust. Not there? Too bad for you.

All of my bikes are illegal according to this new ordinance. Hell, my diesel truck engine makes more noise than my GSXR but the truck is legal? Imagine the riots if they started enforcing the long standing noise ordinances in cities, and the diesel truck and SUV owners started getting tickets. Oh, the horror! Or worse, the cars running around with trash can sized mufflers and top fuel wings (thanks so much "Fast and the Furious") started getting tickets too? If you have access to a decibel meter, measure normal traffic noise sometime. Not loud bikes and cars, just normal, everyday traffic.

We are being discriminated against! That makes it a HATE CRIME! :slappers:

pf702
Mon Sep 17th, 2007, 01:38 PM
skip all the technical articles and discussions and just do "The Eddie Murphy"....
Stick a banana in it within the city limits and realize a 20db sound loss !!
On the way to the Mountains eat the Banana for a quick energy boost !!!
Simple yet Effective :)

panther
Thu Nov 29th, 2007, 04:20 PM
I am sure you all know by now, that Denver has the new noise law on motorcycles.

bikernoj
Sun Oct 19th, 2008, 09:21 AM
And like they say..
Loud pipes save lives.

I think it is true, because there are times where someone has not been able to see a bike, but know its there. Where as if i am behind them, they can not hear me at all. And with all the stupid drivers on the road nowadays. Anything that saves a riders life or prevents a hospital visit should be legal.

You mean like banning cell phone use while driving?

Come on, we all know that you can be riding a screaming yellow Ducati with race pipes, active sirens, anc Christmas lights right next to some SUV with their windows down and the driver will STILL change lanes into you!

Riding my bicycle outside of Morrison, there are always big groups of the LPSL club heading up the road. With no other traffic, no headphones, and only the sound of my breathing, guess how long it takes from the time I hear them to when they pass me?

No more than two seconds; not long enough at 50mph for a cruiser to stop, especially considering the average 0.75 sec reaction time. No matter how loud your pipes are, they WILL NOT prevent some jackass from pulling out into your way at the last second.

The only rule that works is that you are invisible to all people at all times, no matter what. Ride accordingly.

mcduck
Wed Nov 5th, 2008, 10:17 AM
I've got an Erion Racing pipe, it's not obnoxiously loud at all, but it is louder than the stock. I think about loud pipes in this way. When a motorcyclist is riding on the highway, are the in more danger from being cut off from a 4 wheeler in front or from behind? Where would loud pipes actually get people to take notice? Can people with their windows rolled up and stereo cranked still hear you? Would there be a better way to practice riding safely than to rely on loud pipes? I think the below picture describes my thoughts well...enjoy :D

http://www.pjsparts.com/catalog/images/7%20-%20Fun%20Stuff/T-Shirt%201%20Back%20PJ%202.jpg

sugarrey
Sun Jan 11th, 2009, 01:01 PM
I got a great idea.....Mind your own fuc*ing business! I have a devil race on my R1 and its pretty loud. Not d&d loud, but a nice crisp controlled noise. If you dont like that my pipe, get the fuc* away from me. Tell me its too loud and leave me alone, move on with your life....

All the guys I ride with and no one has ever been pulled over for loud pipes, some pipes are cut and gutted...never been pulled over. Whats the problem?

Im here all week, if anyone wants to talk about it

Hi11Zone
Fri Mar 20th, 2009, 10:59 PM
My bike is loud as hell, yes i have goten introuble with police. I'm still not going to make by bike quite! Because my bike is so loud it has saved me more then once with a car not seeing me. Granted i don't rev the egine like crazy around town. Regardles, If i can make it louder it will get louder!

kawasakirob
Tue May 5th, 2009, 09:34 PM
All pipes make noise, some pipes make music. Good music is great to the ears, just not 3 feet away from someones driverside door with there kids in the car. Or the goobs that rev the crap out of their anywhere and everywhere. Straight exhausts, give me a break. They sound like crap. " Moto GP sounds man" Yeah right, race motogp then. You can get very nice exhausts without having them get "loud" until the higher RPM's. Although it is cool to have a deep base sound that sets off car alarms when you idle past.Personally, I love getting wokin up at 3 in the morning by some rebel........or some squid banging through the gears on Colfax, and when he takes a turn, bangs through some more.....feeling the rush of speed. IT gets annoying as heck following some tinny trash can exhaust as well. Even the earplugs don't help. Loud pipes are crap, unless you are on the track where you can actually let them sing the high notes, or somewhere that is not in public earshot. I'm sure people will continue to buy the slashcut "motoGP stylin" exhaust, but until manufatctures quit making that crap and actually start focusing on art and music, then the trash can noise of a four cylinder engine will continue to make people angry.

Ezzzzy1
Tue Apr 26th, 2011, 09:14 PM
How can anyone NOT love the sound of a screaming inline-4? I mean really! Now, the sound of a tract-- er, I mean V-twin -- makes me want to put a bullet in my head, but I could listen to an inline-4 at redline all day and not get sick of it.... :)


Been a stalker of this site for a while, just signed up.

With a post like this one I would vote for you as president!

Oh and I dont use my horn, ever. I always rev my bike and get a better response.

Bueller
Tue Apr 26th, 2011, 09:27 PM
Zombie!

Fernman
Wed Apr 27th, 2011, 12:24 AM
Intolerant assholes would have every right we are still clinging onto ripped away from us. There are groups of people that would like to see fast motorcycles made illegal, bicycles illegal on public roads, large dogs illegal to own as pets, etc. Of course theres no stopping them eventually you won't be able to do anything but go to work, buy some groceries on the way home and watch state selected viewing on your television once you get home, and read state selected books.:up: good point sir.

As long as we bash Harley we shoot ourselves, people only see two wheels.
If you still think skill will get you out of that 16 year old girl on her cell phone or that drunk driver going the wrong way then by all means you deserve to leave the Stock cans on.
there are more distractions now than ever before.
every little bit helps, sure I hate hearing the WOT screaming Straight pipe at 3 in the morning but that's the guy that is going to get the ticket and not me.

Stock bike in Rush hour traffic good luck.:doublefinger:

2isbetterthan4
Wed Apr 27th, 2011, 12:36 AM
I like the sound of aftermarket exhaust as well, but truthfully, for me it's about aesthetics. I just think most of the huge, bazooka like stock exhaust on most bikes out there now are extremely fugly. I like my bike to look good and the sleek and sexy look of most aftermarket exhaust accomplishes that goal... To each their own though

UHATEIT
Thu Jul 26th, 2012, 09:11 AM
How can anyone NOT love the sound of a screaming inline-4? I mean really! Now, the sound of a tract-- er, I mean V-twin -- makes me want to put a bullet in my head, but I could listen to an inline-4 at redline all day and not get sick of it.... :)

I like the sound of my V-Twin. And I dont have to rev up past 9K to get it to sound good like an Inline-4. Thats not to say an Inline-4 doesn't sound badass at 9K and above I love the sound of them hauling ass down the freeway by my apt at 2am it makes me want to go out and ride! But my V-twin doesnt require me to be above legal speed limits to enjoy the sound of it, it sounds good just rolling around on city streets.

asp_125
Thu Jul 26th, 2012, 09:46 AM
My V4 screaming and echoing off some canyon wall somewhere = music. The same V4 rattling windows in the neighborhood, not so much. If you like the sound of your pipe, use it responsibly, and not share it with your neighbor at 11pm or 5am. It's all about being a good rider and not some jackhole. It's the squids that run it to redline in first gear down city streets that spoil it for the rest of us. :321:

Ghost
Thu Jul 26th, 2012, 11:33 AM
Holy fuck, who rezz'd a 6yr old thread?

"http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Sat May 27th, 2006, 12:02 AM"

http://files.sharenator.com/Thread_Crap_Wont_Die-s300x371-97014.jpg

UHATEIT
Thu Jul 26th, 2012, 11:34 AM
Holy fuck, who rezz'd a 6yr old thread?

"http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Sat May 27th, 2006, 12:02 AM"

http://files.sharenator.com/Thread_Crap_Wont_Die-s300x371-97014.jpg


haha someone already did it in 2011, I just redit it in 2012, workday is boring and decided to troll for the time being, my bad. Last poster was just cappin on vtwins so I decided to post up my thoughts

TransNone13
Thu Jul 26th, 2012, 11:55 AM
My V4 screaming and echoing off some canyon wall somewhere = music. The same V4 rattling windows in the neighborhood, not so much. If you like the sound of your pipe, use it responsibly, and not share it with your neighbor at 11pm or 5am. It's all about being a good rider and not some jackhole. It's the squids that run it to redline in first gear down city streets that spoil it for the rest of us. :321:

Definitely comes down to note and how responsible you are. I HATE riding with people who rev at stop lights. Yeah it's fucking loud asshole. Both my bikes are very loud, but with a quality exhaust and not REVVING like an idiot, it sounds great and really only draws the good kind of attention.

Keep it afloat!

GMR
Sun May 5th, 2013, 04:32 PM
i thought this was going to have to do with negative effects on the life on the bike. i love stock. and i hate loud harleys, i think theyre the issue

Nolan
Sun May 5th, 2013, 07:14 PM
I love my Delkevic. Mostly cause it was cheap..... And it's still legal.

Aaron
Sun May 5th, 2013, 11:29 PM
I thought this thread would have to do with the legal nature. Yes, they are illegal, in several ways. But 2/3 of my cars have exhaust systems on them. Use them responsibly and most cops won't care.

Oddibe
Mon May 6th, 2013, 07:55 AM
When I straight piped my Busa, it still was much more quiet than the HD I pulled up next to. Harley at WOT getting on 470 from Morrison last week was 2-3x more obnoxious than my K5 as I flew by.

I agree, it isn't just the noise but the quality of the noise. To me, HD are the worst offenders and sound like shit. Mix that with being slow and unreliable, and I'm sure there is a reason to buy one... Somewhere.

97ThunderCat
Thu Oct 3rd, 2013, 03:23 PM
I guess I really am a bastard with my Yoshimura RS3 and HID kit. I promise I'm going to retrofit this winter!