Group Buy for Miller Track Day

[sank]

I have recently moved to CO (Longmont) from the Seattle area, and I have been looking for track day clubs in the area, but without much luck.

In Seattle we had a chapter of NESBA, run by a great group of the local racers who help people learn how to ride fast and safe on the track. If you don't know them, find them at www.nesba.com (http://www.nesba.com/)

My old NESBA chapter is having a track day at Miller Motorsports Park during the beginning of August. Riders get 20 minutes per hour of track time, where the riders are broken into 3 groups: The Advanced session is run pretty much like an open race practice, while the Beginner group is big on mentoring and keeping people within their limits (especially good for new or timid riders). There is also an Intermediate group, which is where some of the crazier riders would fall - still with instructors on track to give tips and other advice.

If you know anything about Miller, it is the newest and bestest track on the AMA circuit! Here is a quote from one of the race guys from Seattle that brought his team down for the AMA races::hump:
Track: AWESOME i mean yeah everyone says that, but honestly TOP NOTCH! HONESTLY FOLKS YOU HAVE TO COME HERE....i mean makes SIR/SRP/PIR look like a rukus scooter next to an MV agusta!SIR/SRP/PIR are the NW tracks. Not great, but not too shabby, either. They probably compare well with the CO tracks.


The cost at Miller is going to be $195 / day, and the NW NESBA director said that if I could come up with a group of 10 or more, we could all get a discount of 10%. The Nesba-standard $15 off the second track day should still apply. Furthermore, I can probably get him to give new CO members a $50 credit (to offset the $75 membership fee). All in all, that could be a savings of over $100 ! sweet!

If anybody would be interested in such a thing, maybe we could organize a trip over there. I'm going, whether anybody else is or not. It would also be nice to be able to carpool a little bit and put many bikes in only a few trailers.

Let me know here, and if we get 10 (not counting me), I'll call him up with the good news! Also, I can answer general NESBA questions as well, like what gear is required, safety requirements, stuff like that. You can also read it in their rider's manual on the nesba website.

Thanks, guys and gals! This is going to be GREAT FUN!

[sank]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Jun/060615utpre.htm

Track Dates:
August 6, 7 (Sunday/Monday)
We'd leave the Denver area Saturday morning, returning Monday night around 1AM.
It's about a 9 hour drive, according to Google Maps.
It's about a 7 hour drive, according to my uncle ;- )
If you can only do one day (like Sunday), that's fine too. You should still count towards a group discount.

List of people:

Sank (confirmed)
JohnH (confirmed)
Ken (confirmed) Sunday Only
konichd (confirmed) Sunday Only
.
.
.
.
.
.

[Sully]

I might be able to work this... I'll keep an eye on this thread for updates.. Thanks :)

[fe911]

Looks like fun. When I look at the miller website, they seem to have a lot of different sections or racetracks built in. I was wondering what part of the track will this track day be using. Hopefully not the kart track! But i've heard that's pretty good too. It would be nice to have access to the full track.

[sank]

We will be running the outer course, same as the AMA guys. It's something like 3 miles, 3.5 miles...don't remember exactly.

[sank]

This just in from the Nesba director for the NW chapter:

Also let them know that our numbers are really light at this point and that they'll get a ton of open track time and a lot of individual attention from our instructors.
He also said that he can do the $50 credit for people in Colorado who sign up specifically to come to the Miller track day. Either the system will automatically apply a credit to your account, or he will add the credits manually if we can't get CO into the list of "NW region states".

There is an additional $20 late fee for people who sign up for an event inside a 15 day window, which means we have 3 weeks from now to get this all organized.

If you really won't know until after, you can even sign up and do everything right there on Sunday morning. You'll get all the discounts I'm working on, but also the $20 late fee mentioned above.

I would recommend anybody who is serious about this to get their membership online first, starting now. Pay the $75, and we will get the $50 credit applied to your account soon. THEN, AFTER that credit shows up, AND the group discount credit has been applied, (assuming we get enough people), sign up for the track day so it will discount the price of the track day. They don't give cash refunds for credits, so be sure to only pay for the track day after we've got all of the credits applied to your account.

If anything changes, I'll let you know.

[*KEN*]

I'm a definite maybe! I wouldn't be if there wasn't a membership discount though. Thanks for the work to get us the discount. I hope I can come. I hope Nesba gets more weekend days at Miller next year too.

Ken

[sank]

I know, it has a bit of a price tag on it, but it has already been called the best track in the USA.

They won't go again next year if they lose money on it this year. So, that is why we need people to go!

[*KEN*]

nesba is a great organization. Esecially if you are relatively new to track riding. It's very organinized and there's lots of isnstruction if you want it.
Let's get some more people for the discount.

[sank]

There are less than two weeks left to decide! Can I change anybody from MAYBE to Confirmed? or will it just be JohnH and I going by ourselves?

[TribalTT]

Sounds great, except that $195 is a bit steep...USBA just had a track day there for $150 whole day on the east track (I only did the $30 for 30 minutes) due to time constraints and having to borrow someones leathers, bike, etc.
Maybe it would be worth looking into their next track day there before singing up for $45 dollars more. Just a thought

[sank]

I looked all over utah sport bike association site, and it looks like they charge $165 for Miller track days, and I could not find what their membership fee was. So, it seems that the price difference is not really an issue here.

But, thanks for bringing them to my attention as a track club, as I did not know of them before. USBA looks to be very similar to NESBA. How much track time do you get in a day? How do they organize their events?

[sank]

I finally found that $150 price; those events are on the kart track. They charge $165 for the real track (and may even require some sort of racing certification; the website is not clear).

For 2 USBA track days: membership + $330 + racing certification?
For 2 NESBA track days: $400 minus any group discounts we can come up with.

So, if the USBA membership fee is $70, then the price is the same for 2 days, and that's not including any group discounts. If the USBA membership fee is, say, $45, then we're still only talking about a savings of $25, so I don't think price is a real issue when you work the numbers.

It is also true that the weekend rates are higher than the midweek rates, but you don't have to take so many days off work, either. In fact, if you just want to ride on Sunday, you can easily make it to work on Monday morning. NESBA is the only motorcycle club to get a weekend spot at Miller.

[Sully]

I'm out... as much as I'd like to go, I just can't afford it right now.. I need new fork seals on the bike and plates on the cage... and a little more prep time/notice... I hope to attend sometime in the future tho..

Thanks

[*KEN*]

You can change me to an "almost confirmed" for Sunday only. And anther guy will probably come too.

[*KEN*]

Sank,

I think the initial post on this subject says the track day is on Aug 1 (maybe why nobody is interested). The actual dates are 6/7, right? Maybe you should edit that paragraph.

[sank]

I didn't mean Aug 1, I meant the beginning of August. Sure, I'll change it.

[konichd]

I might be in with Ken if we can confirm the group discount and if I can find a motorcycle trialor! :(

[UglyDogRacing]

I finally found that $150 price; those events are on the kart track. They charge $165 for the real track (and may even require some sort of racing certification; the website is not clear).

For 2 USBA track days: membership + $330 + racing certification?
For 2 NESBA track days: $400 minus any group discounts we can come up with.

So, if the USBA membership fee is $70, then the price is the same for 2 days, and that's not including any group discounts. If the USBA membership fee is, say, $45, then we're still only talking about a savings of $25, so I don't think price is a real issue when you work the numbers.

It is also true that the weekend rates are higher than the midweek rates, but you don't have to take so many days off work, either. In fact, if you just want to ride on Sunday, you can easily make it to work on Monday morning. NESBA is the only motorcycle club to get a weekend spot at Miller.

USBA membership is $25

[sank]

As of right now, there are 8 people, and not everybody is confirmed, but I will try to see if he will do for the discount for 8 people. The MAYBE's need to change to confirmed! You too, Ken! :)

Time is running short! To beat the 15 day deadline, we have to get this straightened out THIS WEEK. And, unfortunately, I will have limited computer access Thursday and Friday. I have asked 'the man' if we could get a 1 week extension on the deadline, but no guarantees there.

So, if you are coming, sign up now for a NESBA membership (if you haven't already), and let me know your NESBA member number (send me a PM if you like). I hope to have discount credits applied to the account by Thursday, and everybody can sign up for the track event on Friday before the deadline.

---

Who has extra room in a trailer? Right now, it looks like konichd needs a trailer spot, and if there is extra room somewhere, also JohnH, but he will put it in the back of his pickup if nobody has extra space.

[*KEN*]

I might not be able to go if we don't get the discount - we'll see. I know we need to get this taken care of this week. The other thing holding me up is Konichd was referring to a trailer to get his and my bike up there.

having to rent a trailer AND not getting the membership discount will make my budget really tight right now. I'm trying.

[sank]

Shoot, if konichd=="ken's friend", then that drops the numbers back to 7.

Anyway, I hope to hear back soon if 'the man' will grant a discount to fewer than 10. He is nice sometimes, and I think they are still hoping for people, so there's hope, I think.

I am trying to recruit 'outside help':
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/183049424.html

[konichd]

Discount - I'm in for sure
No Discount - no in

Ken, don't worry about the trailor, its on me since I owe you a cheeseburger. I'll post something in the wanted forum to see if someone is willing to let go of thier trailor for a cash rental fee. Or I might just buy one! :dunno:

[lth]

Just want to say thanks for organizing this trip. I can't go this time but will be watching the message boards for the next time out.

[kimisracer]

just to clarify

the USBA is a bike riding club that can be related to a mix of the MRA and CSC. the USBA is the sanctioning body of roadracing for MMP and their PC-MoM race series. they also run a riding school called ARTs and they are normally on the kart track. MMP runs some open trackdays of which the USBA offers support in the form of oreintation/training to first timers.

the USBA does not offer trackdays directly. one of the big trackday providers in Utah is Apex Trackdays and you can find out information about them at www.apextrackdays.com

on a side note Apex and NESBA are collaborating on the MMP day activities.

[sank]

@ kimisracer
Thanks for the info!

From the NW NESBA director:

I'm not sure how we'll process the discount. Since they won't be doing any other NW events this year I'll probably just have to give them a cash credit at the track. Be sure to bring a list of names of all riders in your group to the track. So, this means NEW PLAN: if you plan on going, sign up for the event and pay now, and we'll get you the discount cash at the track. Remember, the deadline is this week unless you are fine with the $20? late registration fee.

To get the cash back at the track, your name has to be on my list.

[sank]

What I'm saying is that we don't have to have 10 people, just whatever group we can get - if you're on my list. That means Ken and Friend, you're in. (JohnH, Ken, Friend, & I == 4). Still waiting on firm confirmations from others.

[sank]

Please, can we get just 5 people to come?? Only 4 makes me sad.:(

I just went online and paid for my day at Miller. You should be doing this too, before the 15-day late fee hits this weekend.

[*KEN*]

I'm signing up tonight. Definite.

[konichd]

I went on the site and registered. Find out I can rent leathers too!

I will be $270 lighter in the morning! :)

[*KEN*]

It's done. They have my money. See you bitches at the track. :siesta:

Sank, what class do you run? Somebody told me that Miller, being new and in Utah heat, eats tires. You've run here before, right? Any opinions on tire wear or choice?

[sank]

I run in the intermediate class. But no, I've never been to Miller myself, it will be the first time for most of us. I would suspect that anything you're used to in CO you could expect over there ("utah heat"?), except the pavement is only a hand-full of months old. I will try to ask my control rider friends what they think about tires.

My guess is that it's a pretty fast track (especially/definitely for those used to kart tracks).

@konichd
Yeah! They rent leathers too, and usually have some sort of gas and tire vendor types at the track - not sure about this time, being in Utah and all - but I think the tire guy is coming down, and Miller MUST have on-site fuel, don't you think?

[rybo]

You guys have fun at miller!

FYI

I've done 6 days there now and have not experienced the tire issues that many have posted about. Early AM when the track is cold it is possible to cold tear the tires, but in the afternoons once the track has warmed up a bit it seems to be OK. Those of you with liter bikes will have more problems than those without, but if your tires are in decent shape you should have no troubles with wearing them out in a single day.

There is onsite gas there, pay with a credit card at the pump. 91 pump gas as well as 109 and 110 VP fuels are available there.

Drive safe, have fun!

Scott

[*KEN*]

Thanks Scott. I asked about tires because I put on BT12SS's that I had lying around. I've never really used these, but would think of these as more of a street tire that might not do well very hot. Then again, I'm not as fast as I used to be. :)

Sank, I have another friend who said tonight that we was coming. We'll see if he follows through.

[sank]

oh goody goody :- )

[konichd]

I'm in! Paid the 270 and off to Utah I go!

I'm checking into the leathers today...if not I'll just buy some.

Ken I'm still searching for a trailor so cross your fingers or we'll have to get some huge backpacks! :lol:

[rybo]

Thanks Scott. I asked about tires because I put on BT12SS's that I had lying around. I've never really used these, but would think of these as more of a street tire that might not do well very hot. Then again, I'm not as fast as I used to be. :)

Sank, I have another friend who said tonight that we was coming. We'll see if he follows through.

Ken,

I think you'll like the 012SS on the track...I have the BT014 on one of my bikes now and think it's fantastic. I've done track days at Road america on them without so much as a hiccup.

[*KEN*]

Scott,

Thanks again. I feel a lot better about the tires now.

[konichd]

I contacted NESBA about renting leathers. Thier site on nesbastore.com didn't have anything so looks like I have to head down to Performance this weekend. :(

[rybo]

What size are you DK?

[konichd]

46-48 depending on the suit. :)

[rybo]

Sorry man, my suit is too small for you then. I was hoping to save you some cash.

[konichd]

Thanks for checking Scott, but I might as well buy one since I'm planning on doing more track days in the future.

[konichd]

FYI- leathers will be available for rental. $50.00 rental plus a $500 security deposit.

[sank]

I've updated the list of who can go. Just waiting to hear back from TribalTT, and we'll have our meager, but final, count.

[sank]

Last Call!

The fun is this Sunday!

If you're going, PM me your full name and member number, and cell number if you like. I'm leaving Saturday morning 9-10am, heading up over I-80, if you want to caravan.

[sank]

@RYBO

JohnH is looking for something about size 44, can you accomodate?

[sank]

@Ken and konichd

So the agreement was $50 credit towards membership, and $20 for the group discount. Since you guys are only racing Sunday, it will be a better deal to get a $75 credit towards membership, and no group discount (since my group is so small ;- ).

So, expect $75 at the track. Sounds fair? Good. :- )

[rybo]

Sank,

My leathers are 42, and pretty tight on me. I have a 44 vanson jacket that could be borrowed if he could come up with a pair of pants to match...

[sank]

Thanks for the info. I think we found another set he can use that should be the right size. 42 probably wouldn't cut it.

[denverbusa]

Konichd,
I got a size 48 InterSport one piece you are welcome to take out with you. Yellow black with SUZUKI RACING on it, hope your Kaw won't mind.

I'm in Lakewood (Hamden/Wads). I work all over town and could throw 'em in the truck if thats not convenient for you.

My cell 720-203-4057 if interested. I just wish I was going with you, sounds like you will all have a great time.

[konichd]

Thanks Busa, but I broke down and spent the money on some good gear. I'll probably be doing more track days in the future so it was a wise investment. Thanks for looking out for me though!

[denverbusa]

Have a great trip, and no wadding up the bikes. It's no fun sitting on the side while others are still riding. (voice of experience:()

Although it is good for giving the leathers some character.:shocked:

[sank]

Hey; why aren't you coming? You still can, even just for Sunday if you want.

;- )

[denverbusa]

Wish I could but too many commitments. May not even be able to get a local ride in.:(

I am putting the final touches on my Busa and getting her all back together 100% after my crash last year.

[konichd]

Busa, my caravan will be coming back Sunday night. I don't have a place for your bike, but if you talk nice and want to demote yourself to riding a Kawi then I have a spot for you! :lol:

[denverbusa]

Busa, my caravan will be coming back Sunday night. I don't have a place for your bike, but if you talk nice and want to demote yourself to riding a Kawi then I have a spot for you! :lol:

I don't know whose feelings would be hurt worse, the Busa or the Duc?:slappers:

Thanks for the offer, I do appreciate it. While others have questioned my priorities, my 2 daughters are on top of the pedastal. But not by much over the bikes.:think:

[sank]

Again this year! New thread. Planned 5 months in advance this time!
http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/showthread.php?p=152882

[rforsythe]

Not to pimp my own stuff here, but you can come out to R2SL at Miller and ride more for less $$... And you support children's charities in the process! :up:

[konichd]

Sorry Ralph but your propaganda is BS. Nesba is cheaper and better run IMHO. Both Ken, Terra, Sank, and I were out there in Aug. It was a great experience and cheaper than R2SL.

R2SL is great, but its not a Nesba equal Ralph. :)

[rforsythe]

Sorry Ralph but your propaganda is BS. Nesba is cheaper and better run IMHO. Both Ken, Terra, Sank, and I were out there in Aug. It was a great experience and cheaper than R2SL.

R2SL is great, but its not a Nesba equal Ralph. :)
Perhaps you'd like to explain? If you think R2SL can be better run, by all means do tell.

We offer a full day for $145. Not sure how that's cheaper than $180 or $205, but maybe I just forgot how to add. :dunno:

In any event, do what ya like. I'm not knocking NESBA or this post, it's a fine org that does a lot of events; I'm just posting another way to get out on MMP that is in point of fact, cheaper. ;) And FWIW, their control riders at MMP (the Apex guys) are heading our track instruction as well, along with some other qualified volunteers from CO and UT.

[sank]

Dude, don't knock the admin, for admins are subtle and quick to anger...

Seriously, Race 2 Save Lives is cheaper, and you do get more track time. But the NESBA impression of Apex "control riders" was not much - they're local guys, whereas the best NESBA control riders come from across the nation to help run this event. Come to NESBA to learn, and by all means, get some additional time in beforehand and help a charity at the same time! It's the best of both worlds!

[rybo]

Sank,

You've got class. Mad props to you.

Scott

[konichd]

Maybe my maths wrong but my donations required for two days were $335 = 167.50 a day.

Sank, there were 6 sessions, 20 mins each = 2 hours of riding each day on the FULL AMA COURSE, not just the east/west tracks. :)

For $13 dollars more I'll take a NESBA day anytime. This isn't to knock R2SL (which I'm a volunteer and participant) but another option for members to look at. The NESBA rider's were outstanding and provided one-on-one instruction which R2SL cannot. For the mere 13 bucks your going to have a much better learning experience at a NESBA event.

NESBA has been doing this a long time and have a great system in place that IMHO is better than R2SL's current system. :)

I'm going to both, but for those who can only afford to do one, I would pick the NESBA event hands down.

[rybo]

First the disclaimer: I've never done a NESBA day at Miller, but have done several days with them at other tracks.

I rode WAY WAY more at R2SL than I did at any NESBA event. Also, and again the Miller experience may be different, I got better rider coaching at R2SL than I did at any NESBA day. This could be because I was aggressive and sought out the people I wanted to coach me, or it could just be my own experience.

Either way...more track time is better...lets all do both!

DK, Sank....do you run the AMA course or the full course? They are two different things.

[konichd]

I was told it was the AMA course. Our experiences have been a little different Scott. I got a different instructor everytime I road and had a 5-10 minute critique session after each time out on the track. I rode at 40 minute intervals which gave me time to get something to drink, eat, and head back out. This event alone improved my riding tremendously and is something I will always support in the future.

RS2L is great, but a person looking to improve thier riding skills might not get as much "for their money" as they would at a NESBA event. Afterall, what good is it to turn laps, or ride more, if you don't improve? :dunno:

[rforsythe]

Maybe my maths wrong but my donations required for two days were $335 = 167.50 a day.
Your math is wrong. It was $275 for 2 full days, if you pre-registered.


Sank, there were 6 sessions, 20 mins each = 2 hours of riding each day on the FULL AMA COURSE, not just the east/west tracks. :)

For $13 dollars more I'll take a NESBA day anytime. This isn't to knock R2SL (which I'm a volunteer and participant) but another option for members to look at. The NESBA rider's were outstanding and provided one-on-one instruction which R2SL cannot. For the mere 13 bucks your going to have a much better learning experience at a NESBA event.
Dollar-for-time we're *way* cheaper if all you get is 2 hours. Also we're not too far off the one-on-one instruction. The formal classes at the beginning of each 3-hour block have a higher student to instructor ratio obviously, but we had many people getting one on one coaching throughout the event.


NESBA has been doing this a long time and have a great system in place that IMHO is better than R2SL's current system. :)
Are you just talking about the instruction thing, or something else related to how the event itself is operated?

[konichd]

I don't know where you get your numbers Ralph but I did pre-register and am showing a $335 amount due. :)

NESBA was great for a "first time rider" but if you have more track experence and just want track time, then R2SL is for you. But if you want one-on-one instuction to improve your skills, I would recommend NESBA.

As far as some points from NESBA that R2SL could incorporate would be a "rider's packet" to explain do's and don'ts, bike prep, etc. I know this is on the website but an all inclusive packet is much easier. "Beginer's" class thats both classroom and track oriented for newer riders.

I did not attend R2SL last year, so I don't exactly know what improvements have been made.

My point: BOTH are great events, but determine what your looking to get out of your trackday experience and choose the one thats right for you. :)

[rforsythe]

I don't know where you get your numbers Ralph but I did pre-register and am showing a $335 amount due. :)
Not looking at your registration (and sorry, I thought you meant last year's cost, add $10 for this year) did you do the full session on Sunday as part of that? Could explain the difference. However even then that's still 18 hours of track time, including 3 hours on the FULL (better than the AMA-Outer) course. ;)


As far as some points from NESBA that R2SL could incorporate would be a "rider's packet" to explain do's and don'ts, bike prep, etc.
I agree having a rider packet would be useful, and that is nearly done actually. A PDF will be up on the website, and will be handed to all participants as well.


"Beginer's" class thats both classroom and track oriented for newer riders.
That's exactly what we did at MMP last year, and is being improved upon even more this time.


I did not attend R2SL last year, so I don't exactly know what improvements have been made.
Ok that explains the disconnect here. If your only experience was PPIR, then yeah - I agree it was a little chaotic. MMP-06 was a lot of evolution in how we do things in all areas. PPIR was definitely not as new-rider friendly, however at MMP last year we taught over 200 riders (many were complete rookies) how to stay safe and improve their skills. I think that had a lot to do with us only seeing a half dozen minor crashes in 4 full days of riding with 350+ participants. One on one instruction was nearly always available as well.


My point: BOTH are great events, but determine what your looking to get out of your trackday experience and choose the one thats right for you. :)
Agreed!

[konichd]

Then can you stop R2SL whoring a NESBA thread? :lol:

Sounds like R2SL is on the right track Ralph, good job!

[rforsythe]

Sure, I will stop whoring it now. (Psst, go sign up. :lol:)

If you have other ideas on things, just let me know! You don't have to wait for some thread like this to bring them up.

[Archangel]

Way to go Ralph!!! Beat him into submission!!! GO R2SL!!!!