Dealership dilemma…

[Volition]

Enter dealership X, I’m not naming names cuz I don’t want to burn any bridges, but I need to get this off my chest. Sorry for being so long but its kind of a long story. ***Cliff notes at the end***

1.) I was very impressed with them as they got my estimate done the business day after I brought the bike in.
2.) Not so much impressed when I went to check on it and they missed some stuff, but no big deal, they added it and the insurance paid up.
3.) They order the parts, 7 days later I have still not heard from them so I call them. They have most of the parts and will work on my bike the next day.
4.) Next day, towards the end of the day, once again no phone call so I call them, they say the bike is ready minus the few non essential parts and I can pick it up.
5.) An hour later as I’m getting ready to head out, “we ran into some problems, broke a baring inside one of the engine covers (not sure which one) can’t get the bike back together. Have to order a new one”… what the fuck? Again I have to wait for another part, 5-7days. But no big deal, I wanted to ride but this way they wil have all the parts on the bike when I pick it up.
6.) 7 days later again, and again no phone call so I call them first thing in the morning. They have the parts and I request they work on it that day. They agree and say it will be done “late afternoon”.
7.) I call them prior to heading out and to my dismay… “We are having problems.” What kind of problems? “We broke a bearing”… WHAT THE SHIT?! They next day a new bearing and say they will call me…
8.) 3 days later, again no phone call so first thing in the morning on the 4th day I call them! They got the part and put the bike together the previous day… so why no call?

Up to this point nothing has really bothered me too much, I mean shit happens. They could have called me to update me but w/e… now we get into what really pisses me off.

9.) I pick up the bike and as I’m riding it feels “off” to me, I figure it’s just cuz I have not ridden in so long and may be a bit hesitant due to my accident.
10.) Get the bike home and go to detail it and what the fuck do I find? Three of the parts they installed are scratched. (Ram air cover, and both left hand side engine covers). One of them very obviously an install scratch where the tech slipped with a power tool and made a squiggly line across my cover.
11.) Add to that the fact that my left clip on, feels bent to me, not by much but that’s why I was feeling off while riding it. I had a few people sit on the bike and everyone confirmed that it was indeed bent. Also, it seems that there is road grime on it, dirt. So that leads me to believe that it was not replaced and they just charged me anyway.
12.) I call them and “ um… well… um.. yeah…” so I take the bike back down and show them and they service manager just stands there not really saying anything. I’m hinting at what I already know to be true, they scratched the parts during install and did not replace my clip on. He says he needs to talk to his boss (thought he was the service manager) about the scratched parts and will call me.
13.) When asked about the clip on he says it does not feel off to him and they will have to check it out, when asked why its dirty.. he says that it may be a protective spray that Yamaha puts on all its metal parts so they don’t rust in shipping. OH FUCKING REALLY?! Yamaha put a dirt like grimy spray on my aluminum non rusting clip on, and even if they did why did the tech not clean it off prior to install? I don’t want to argue so I let it go, tell him to call me when he has talked to his boss.
14.) A few days later still no call so I ONCE A-FUCKING-GAIN call them, he tells me he did not talk to his boss yet but he went ahead and ordered the parts anyway and they will take care of it… so why did he not call me and inform me of this? I thank him and tell him to call me when the parts come in (5-7 days later)
15.) I have since called them twice and the parts they got in 5 days or so the first time they ordered them have yet to arrive nearly two fucking weeks later (13 days today).
16.) All this and I still have to find out just what the fuck to do about my bent clip on since that matter is not resolved yet.

*** So the short short version. The dealership 1) either scratched my parts during install or installed scratched parts and did not tell me about it. 2) Did (to the best of my knowledge) not replace the clip on but charged me. 3) Has yet to call me when parts arrive, service is complete, or components broken during install, etc.

So for those of you that have read this far, what should I do?

[BHeth]

Damn, man. Sure sounds like my Grand Prix experience. I wrote a nasty email to the GM there and was basically called a liar. I'll never step foot in their dealership again. Unfortunatly that's the only recourse I have.

[Devaclis]

Contact the BBB and the Dealer Board. I make that a habbit now when I feel wronged and the stealerships will not assist in resolving my issues.

[konichd]

I say burn'em and let us know what dealership this is! :)

I'd report them to the better Business Buerue (sp)

[Airreed]

Have you spoken to the General Manager/Store Manager?
I hope they make this right for you!

[Kim-n-Dean]

You would be amazed at how many people bring me their bikes after they've been worked on at a dealership or shop. The dealerships are, by far, the worst!!

It's not rocket science, why can't these dip shits get it right?!?!? Oh yeah, they're dip shits, that's why!!!

I guess I'm going to have to start a repair shop along with the tire service I've been doing:lol:

Imagine - quality work done technically correct at a fair price. I think the world would stop turning!!

Unfortunately, I have no time to do something like that!! At least, not right now. Maybe some day...

[Volition]

No I have not spoken to anyone but the Service manager; I don’t really want to take it that far. I’m just getting frustrated with how long everything takes and the fact that I have to call them all the time… but they are resolving my issues with the scratched parts.

It’s really just come down to what I should do if they don’t find anything wrong with my clip on. It’s not overly bent, just a few millimeters and they could easily claim they replaced it. The only thing I have to go on that they did in fact not replace it is that it feels off to me, it’s dirty (I don’t buy that protective spray story) and the workmanship they put into the rest of the parts, i.e. breaking 2 bearings that should not break on 2 separate occasions, and either scratching my parts or installing obviously scratched parts they received from Yamaha and not telling me.

[Nick_Ninja]

Don't buy a Yama-dog :D

[Stuart Little]

I'm a lot like you, I try to be nice and patient but at this point it's time for some heads to fly, print out your itinerized list and go to the shop in person and talk with the gm in person and don't leave til u hear what you like. Bring some BBB info and small claims paperwork with ya.

[Volition]

^ Yeah I'm kind of leaning the same way... The First estimate was done on 6/17/06 ... so over a month and a hlaf now and my bike is still not back to it's former glory. Dont get me worng, I don't want to sue these guys or call the bbb.. They have been good to me in the past and I don't want to blow this out of porportion. I just either want my bike the way it should be, they way i paid for it to be, or my money back for the scratched/non relpaced parts and labor. Not to much to ask is it?

[MUSHMEAT]

You really need to tell us what Bonehead shop this is.:banghead:

[mikesf4i]

Ask for your old parts back. I believe by law they have to hang on to them for a certain period of time. Or maybe thats just warrenty stuff. Also in their defense, this is the busy time of the year for dealerships and they are literally overrun with bikes needing repair work. That could possibly explain why things are taking so long. Now having said that... Your bike should be repaired correctly when you get it back. Parts that are damaged should not be used. You should always inspect their work and try to notice damaged parts before you take delivery of the bike. That way they cant say "how do we know you didnt scratch them when you got home?" Give them a chance to fix your issues, and if they take care of you great. Maybe they are looking at firing the sloppy tech anyway or are having problems getting damaged parts from the manufacturer. If they do not take care of your problems by all means mention them by name on the board. If they cannot do good enough work to keep a good reputation than they deserve a bad one.

[Volition]

Well put Mikesf4i, I have been thinking the same thing for a while now. I should have noticed the scratches when I picked it up but I was in a hurry and did not think to check to see if they put damaged parts on my bike (I will in the future for sure).

I picked up the bike on Saturday and noticed the scratches after closing but called them first thing Tuesday to make sure they could not pull the, we didn’t do it card, I also took pics of the parts with a time stamp just to make sure.

They also seem to work on my bike in a prompt manor but only after I call them, so they’re apparently not to busy to do the work just to start doing the work.

I really am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt but it’s hard when they are not being proactive at all.

In any case I believe you should never put scratched parts on a bike, whether or not they received them that way or it happened during install, let alone do so w/o informing the customer. They have already ordered those parts and I have been waiting for them for 2 weeks now. The real issue is the clip on, and if they in fact can not produce my old clip on I have no other choice but to assume that they did not replace it and that is so not cool.

[RayCer]

Go down and talk to the GM. Ask him what he would do if he was the customer and he was in your shoes. Be civilized up to the point that he says that he would just wait it out, then cock back and knock his ass out! Then while he is on the ground, roll him over and shove the bent clip-on up his..... Nevermind. Just report the dealership to the BBB, that would be easier. Hope you get your bike back soon!

[Polar X]

You need to go straight to the top with a phonecall, then letter, and follow up with a personal meeting. Fuck the service manager, he is just a hired pee-on like the shop help. As for you wanting to give them the benifit of a doubt:shocked: Are you nuts:banghead: They have repeatedly lied to you about your bike, taken WWaaaayyyy to long to do repairs. AND after the things that they have told you, and that you have found, how do you know that they really did all the work in the first place. I would not be surprised if you missed a few more things on the bike that were not fixed correctly. They are fucking you and you are in denial. Go right the top and put a stop to this. And name the shop so others don't get screwed or worse.

Good luck

[Kim-n-Dean]

Filing a report with the BBB is a great idea, however, so many businesses have no intention of providing customer service and never join the BBB. Every time I've checked to see how many complaints a business has, they're never a member. Therefore, no one to file a compaint with.

With that said, you should just cough up their name. Filing a report with the CSC appears to have a better response.

[Bat]

With that said, you should just cough up their name. Filing a report with the CSC appears to have a better responce.

Yep, I would be interested to know which shop this is as I am up North. Always nice to have more information (good and bad) about places.

[mtnairlover]

I understand the desire for the benefit of the doubt...but, over a month? Uh, uh. It took nearly 7 weeks for a place in Loveland to do a carb rebuild on my old KZ. I never got a call from them...I always called them about it. They always had excuses and when it came time to pick it up and pay the bill, they wanted to charge me more...something about it taking longer to get the job done...yea, whatever. I said, "you're kidding, right...do you care about customer retention at all? I'm not paying that much." I talked them down, but not enough. I'm never going back. And, I don't have proof of whether or not they were telling me the truth the whole time.

If you want to continue giving your money to this shop, but you're not so sure...do some more research. Find out if they were telling you the truth about the spray stuff on clip on. If they were lying, they'll lie about anything.

Then, please tell us what shop it is so we don't give them our patronage.

[Gramps]

only fair to let us know which shop it is


maybe something can be done

it's not always what you know, sometimes it's who you know


maybe someone could get something resolved for you

[BigE]

Well, knowing the bike is an R1 and guessing it's a Yammie dealer up north...it's either Ft. Collins Motorsports or Twin Peaks. IMHO, sounds like Ft. Collins MS.

MtnAirLover...curious who you dealt with on the carb rebuild too???? (I have an idea or two but would like to know).

[Volition]

Eric man you're crazy... crazy like a fox. But it's not FCMS,Though I admit it does sound like something they would do.

[BHeth]

Reporting a company to the BBB is pretty much a joke. They even write on their website that they don't "take sides, just "facilitate communication". It ends up being a "your word versus their word" ordeal. I have never heard of a consumer actually getting anything resolved by the BBB or a company getting removed from the BBB. Companies pay money to be members, so why would the BBB want to kick them out or piss them off?

If anyone has had a success story, please share it. Like I said, I've never heard of anyone getting anywhere with them, but I haven't heard everything.

Sorry this is a bit off topic, Volition. I feel your pain, and am angered when a fellow rider is being taken advantage of by one of the very places that caters to our sport.

[BigE]

Eric man you're crazy... crazy like a fox. But it's not FCMS,Though I admit it does sound like something they would do.

I just don't know what you're talkin' 'bout Mikey. I was wondering because I thought you were through with FCMS the last time:banghead: :lol: So if it's not them and unmentionable hereabouts, call the GM and see what's up. Took my Pop's bike in for carb stuff and had kind of the same experience with having to call to check to see if it was done (they said they had called but no message was left).
Ya need to just start doing your own work then you don't have to deal with this stuff. :lol:

Hey, you going to meet up Sat.? Come up to the Masonville store around 11-11:30.

[Kim-n-Dean]

I can't help but think this would be a great time to modernize a popular saying.

The old phrase, "the world is paved with good intentions" needs to be updated to, "the world is paved with bull shit and excuses" :)

[Big-J]

What I would do is get in contact with the Consumer Protection Agency
http://www.ago.state.co.us/consumer_protection.cfm?MenuPage=True

My Mom used to work for this agency in N.M.. Believe me, when a business gets a call from them, they tend to shape up really quick!

Good luck, and I hope you get this matter resolved!

[livinlife2themax]

well this sounds a lot like a dealership here in the aurora area.....FAY MYERS!!!! Either way it is better to just get a manual and do the work yourself... Granted it might take a little longer than a shop....except in your case...but you will know the work was actually done!!!

[rforsythe]

well this sounds a lot like a dealership here in the aurora area.....FAY MYERS!!!! Either way it is better to just get a manual and do the work yourself... Granted it might take a little longer than a shop....except in your case...but you will know the work was actually done!!!

Dude I realize you had a negative experience there, but this is like the 5th time you've posted up about it. We get it.

[Wahooman]

You would be amazed at how many people bring me their bikes after they've been worked on at a dealership or shop. The dealerships are, by far, the worst!!

It's not rocket science, why can't these dip shits get it right?!?!? Oh yeah, they're dip shits, that's why!!!

I guess I'm going to have to start a repair shop along with the tire service I've been doing:lol:

Imagine - quality work done technically correct at a fair price. I think the world would stop turning!!

Unfortunately, I have no time to do something like that!! At least, not right now. Maybe some day...

Dean come on now..........
I know its easy to stereo type dealerships and trust me the Powersports industry has a horrible name behind it and reputation for stuff like this. As stated in numerous posts and many experiences.....I know not all dealerships are like that. Everyone makes mistakes, but as said throughout this thread....its how it is handled. I will say Twin Peaks is by far a totally different place to do business with........look through the shop experiences and so far......only positive and raving customers.
Now...could this be us? Possibly yes. I have been so busy at the automotive facitily I have not been up to Twin Peaks very much at lately. I do know the author of this thread has been to our facility as well.....so I am starting to wonder if this is indeed our facility.
1) If this is us I will follow up and ensure it is taken care of properly--that is our way.
2) I don't know the whole story...only what I read here.
3) Dealerships are SLAMMED...as someone stated previously......just drive by and look at the lot and how much is there between ATVs, Cylces, Boats, etc....its nuts.
4) We are not perfect and by no means am I saying we are. However if this situation has gone exactly as stated I would be VERY surprised if it was. If so.....it will be delt with.....trust me on that!
5) We are not dipshits.......believe it or not. Would I say some dealerships are....yes, from my own personal expereince. Some of them are like comparing Grease Monkey to Stan's Automotive.......2 different levels of service and knowledge. Our techs are 2nd to none!

I have sent Volition a PM to see if this is indeed us. I will also follow up with our service manager and my brother (the GM) and ask him as well.
All in all I do appreciate this being brought forward, whether our facility or not. Things can get resolved this way and good things can come from it no matter how bad it seems. Learn and grow.

I think someone else asked for someone to post up a positive expereince.......many times hard to find this. You ALWAYS here about the negatives but individuals are very slow to post up about something positive and great. Those of you who have about Twin Peaks.....your appreciation does not go overlooked and I am sure you know that.

Stay tuned...............

[mullhaupt R6]

Mike I think you have to stop hitting deer and you wont have any problems. or get a deer whistle for your helmet. Anyways I've been in the automotive buisness since the seventies and I am sure the bike buisness is just the same, but when you get parts from the manufacturer they are very well packed and overpacked. I cant beleive how sometimes a 2 to 6 inch item will be in a 2 foot long box with tons of wrap. What a waste. I am sure the tech scratched it, but its too bad they were trying to hide it I would have told you and reordered u another part while you ride it. Breaking 2 bearings now thats bad at least the tech should have asked the top tech for a little help. Thats how it is at my shop. I tell my guys if your not sure whats up, ASK! That way we keep breaking thing to a very minimum. or look for another job. The problem now adays is that alot of shops hire a master tech, (and I say this loosley, because I have known alot of crappy master techs, They can read well but cant multi task and screw up alot when they are working on 2 or 3 vehicles) and then alot of parts changers, It wasnt like that before,Alot of commisioned techs want to work on 5 or 6 vehicles at a time and just want to work on the gravy jobs (easy job good $) Dont take this the wrong way because not all shops are this way just alot of them are. So I hope all goes well and we will have to ride again,Come by the shop sometime OK Mike. got rid of the R6 now have the 750
Perry

[Kim-n-Dean]

Dean come on now..........
I know its easy to stereo type dealerships and trust me the Powersports industry has a horrible name behind it and reputation for stuff like this.
Just stating my "generalized" opinion...


3) Dealerships are SLAMMED...as someone stated previously......just drive by and look at the lot and how much is there between ATVs, Cylces, Boats, etc....its nuts.
I hear ya but, it's still no excuse to do bad work or any of the other things Volition mentioned. I have my own business too and the fact that I'm busy doesn't mean dick to the client if I screw something up. There are no excuses for bad communication or doing bad work!!


5) We are not dipshits.......believe it or not. Would I say some dealerships are....yes, from my own personal expereince. Some of them are like comparing Grease Monkey to Stan's Automotive.......2 different levels of service and knowledge. Our techs are 2nd to none!
I don't think you're a dipshit, Curtis. But, I see you do think the same as me about other dealerships.



I think someone else asked for someone to post up a positive expereince.......many times hard to find this. You ALWAYS here about the negatives but individuals are very slow to post up about something positive and great.
I had a good experience when I bought my two WR's. I was even thinking about posting it. Although, before I could, I went into the dealer the very next day and the salesman who sold me the bikes, walked right past me and grunted to me the usual "dealership" hello. You know the one I'm talking about, the mumbled hello that implies they have no time for you. He didn't even recognize me...

That's the second time that exact scenario has happened after a major purchase. Different dealer the first time and a much larger purchase (two new bikes, two new quads, all the gear and a new trailer.) I guess no one cares about repeat business!!
:horse:

[Volition]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I wont be releasing the name of the dealership simply because I believe that this issue is still unresolved and has not yet come to an impasse. I don’t want to go dragging someone’s business through the dirt just yet. I will however keep you up to date and if other stuff goes wrong (which I seriously doubt) will let you know whom I’m talking about.

What I can say is that posting here has already yielded positive results and I’m confident that my issues will be addressed and resolved. In retrospect I think I should have addressed GM earlier, but I really wanted to see just how this would play out w/o taking it to that level.

Perry, Thanks for confirming what I already thought, it means more coming from a mechanic then just me so I’m confident now that it’s was the techs fault and not shipping. 1 part maybe, but to receive 3 scratched parts and still install them… compound that with the 2 broken bearings and I’m fairly sure my clip-on was not replaced with a “new grime coated one” that feels off. Anyway, I will stop by the shop one of these days, I’ve actually been meaning to ask you about something that broke on my BMW but have forgotten about it time and time again. We’ll have to see what that gixer of yours can do one of these days.

Dean, you put it well. A shop being “slammed” is an excuse for taking a long time on repairs, not calling people back, etc… and I can understand that. But it is no excuses for crappy workmanship.

Curtis, Thanks for the PM. Nice to know you care about your shops reputation enough to Pm me without even knowing who I was talking about and offering to help me out. You know as much as I do, so from my point of view you do have the “whole story”. There might be some stuff I don’t know about but to the best of my knowledge I have left nothing out nor exaggerated anything.

[Gramps]

good to hear your getting things resolved :up:

[Punkin]

IT WAS US!!!! Wow...I bet you guys were DYING to hear that?

Seriously, I have been pretty proud of the fact that I have made it clear that my office has no door, no window, and is located on the showroom floor at Twin Peaks. With the exception of the last week, where I was offsite at Star Days all week (6:30am-10/11pm) followed by leaving at 4am Sunday morning for the Victory Dealer meeting, I pretty much live at Twin Peaks.

Those of you who have met me know that I'm a pretty darn easy guy to get along with. That being said, I'm disappointed that this is the first venue for me to hear of this issue, particularly because when you are working basically 7am-8 or 9pm every night, checking your "status" with the CSC isn't the highest priority--staying at work until my customers are taken care of IS my highest priority--I'm disappointed that we let one slip through.

That being said, the "mob mentality" thing really doesn't work for me. For anyone who has posted any variation of the following,

* Fuck the service manager,he's a peon
(no, in fact he's a quality professional that has been with our family, between both businesses for over 8 years)
* Call the BBB
* Punch the GM in the mouth
* Sue them
* They're just dipshits anyway
* I could do better out of my garage

or anything along those lines.......I would genuinely invite you to find someplace BESIDES Twin Peaks to have your service work performed.

For those of you who responded in reasonable person-speak...you are right--A simple phone call, or popping in and asking for the GM/Owner/Guy in charge/Someone besides the employee I'm having a problem with, would likely result in incredibly rapid, and incredibly satisfactory results.

Because we are closed today, I don't have the resources (with my 11mo old daughter here on my lap helping me type) to solve this today. However, I have sent Mike a PM asking him for a chance to get together this week, and we'll get this solved. I invite Mike to post back his feelings of how this was resolved once it was brought to my attention.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear--I'm disappointed that Mike started here, rather than with me, but he obviously was in a turmoil about what to do.

The response of this forum I think indicates that character of many who hang out here, and frankly, I'm glad Mike isn't responding the way some of you feel is appropriate.

If you feel flamed (insert various names here), I apologize--but I have a small crew who isn't PERFECT, but we do bust our asses everyday, and at the very least, I can go to bed at night knowing that we did our daily work ethically, with INTEGRITY, and our customers' best interests at heart.

Have we made mistakes? You bet, and we'll probably make more. With my daughter's help typing, I've probably even made a typo or two here in this post...but I will ALWAYS, PERSONALLY stand up for any mistake, miscommunication, or problem that is created between any member of my staff and any customer--- IF I am approached in a reasonable, non-inflammatory manner.

--Scott
General Manager
Twin Peaks Powersports

[Nick_Ninja]

IT WAS US!!!! <snip>
I want to make one thing perfectly clear--I'm disappointed that Mike started here, rather than with me, but he obviously was in a turmoil about what to do.
<snip>
--Scott
General Manager
Twin Peaks Powersports

From the sixteen (16) outlined chronological items in his first post it sounded like he attempted to resolve the issue on numerous occasions with your employees but was, from his description, either given the runaround or ignored altogether. I hope he gives you all a second chance.

[Kim-n-Dean]

IT WAS US!!!! Wow...I bet you guys were DYING to hear that?

Seriously, I have been pretty proud of the fact that I have made it clear that my office has no door, no window, and is located on the showroom floor at Twin Peaks. With the exception of the last week, where I was offsite at Star Days all week (6:30am-10/11pm) followed by leaving at 4am Sunday morning for the Victory Dealer meeting, I pretty much live at Twin Peaks.

Those of you who have met me know that I'm a pretty darn easy guy to get along with. That being said, I'm disappointed that this is the first venue for me to hear of this issue, particularly because when you are working basically 7am-8 or 9pm every night, checking your "status" with the CSC isn't the highest priority--staying at work until my customers are taken care of IS my highest priority--I'm disappointed that we let one slip through.

That being said, the "mob mentality" thing really doesn't work for me. For anyone who has posted any variation of the following,

* Fuck the service manager,he's a peon
(no, in fact he's a quality professional that has been with our family, between both businesses for over 8 years)
* Call the BBB
* Punch the GM in the mouth
* Sue them
* They're just dipshits anyway
* I could do better out of my garage

or anything along those lines.......I would genuinely invite you to find someplace BESIDES Twin Peaks to have your service work performed.

For those of you who responded in reasonable person-speak...you are right--A simple phone call, or popping in and asking for the GM/Owner/Guy in charge/Someone besides the employee I'm having a problem with, would likely result in incredibly rapid, and incredibly satisfactory results.

Because we are closed today, I don't have the resources (with my 11mo old daughter here on my lap helping me type) to solve this today. However, I have sent Mike a PM asking him for a chance to get together this week, and we'll get this solved. I invite Mike to post back his feelings of how this was resolved once it was brought to my attention.

I want to make one thing perfectly clear--I'm disappointed that Mike started here, rather than with me, but he obviously was in a turmoil about what to do.

The response of this forum I think indicates that character of many who hang out here, and frankly, I'm glad Mike isn't responding the way some of you feel is appropriate.

If you feel flamed (insert various names here), I apologize--but I have a small crew who isn't PERFECT, but we do bust our asses everyday, and at the very least, I can go to bed at night knowing that we did our daily work ethically, with INTEGRITY, and our customers' best interests at heart.

Have we made mistakes? You bet, and we'll probably make more. With my daughter's help typing, I've probably even made a typo or two here in this post...but I will ALWAYS, PERSONALLY stand up for any mistake, miscommunication, or problem that is created between any member of my staff and any customer--- IF I am approached in a reasonable, non-inflammatory manner.

--Scott
General Manager
Twin Peaks Powersports
Now, keep in mind that I write all this crap with a "tongue-in-cheek" attitude, however, it doesn't lessen the validity of the point.

Are you saying that if you're not there, this is what can happen? I don't mean that as harsh as it may sound but, you stated that you were out of the shop all week. That kind of implies to me that that's the case.

I'm also curious why mistake after mistake was made and why the customer was NEVER called at any point to let him know what was going on. Are you saying that the employees are competent as long as the head cheese is around?

FWIW - Anyone who says, "I could do better out of my garage" or any of the other comments you didn't like, probably wouldn't be bringing you their bike anyway.

As for my "dipshit" comment, it has nothing to do with you or Curtis or Twin Peaks (I had no clue who Volition was talking about as he never mentioned it). I feel that way about any employee at just about any business. It's fact, most people have no clue what they are doing. Just the way I feel and the reason I do EVERYTHING myself. Electrical, plumbing, capentry, mechanics, it doesn't matter. Quality work starts at the end of my fingertips:lol: I just wish I wasn't so damn lazy, I'd get a lot more done...

[Volition]

Just to clear a few things up: I did not post this to debase Twin Peaks in any way, they have been helpful and courteous to me in every other encounter I’ve had with them. I did not want to use this forum as a means to get the attention of the management of twin peaks, though I admit I knew they frequent the board and was hoping they would run across this thread. This post was primarily a means to vent about a situation I had grown frustrated with, secondly I wanted some advice and comments… most of which were helpful (thanks guys).

As for starting here Scott, I did not intend to bring this situation to you by means of this thread. And I had “started” with Dallas, I wrote this after I had decided not to call anyone at twin peaks for at least a week to see if I had simply been too hasty and not given Dallas a chance to call me, or if I really did have to call every other day to get things moving forward. After reading some of the comments I had every intention of calling you this week, and speaking to you personally as I saw that that would have been the proper course of action. Sorry if you feel that I went behind your back somehow but until you mentioned it no one knew I was talking about you.

In any case, since hearing from your brother and you, I feel confident that you will again earn my business in the future… though I’d rather not have that same tech touch my bike again.:up:

[Punkin]

Disregarding anything related to Mike's issue...for those of you who don't know.

I've got about 12 employees. 2 Technicians. Yup, we're busy. Last week was the annual Star Days Rally, which this year happened to be in Longmont. Star Days is the "official, unofficial" Yamaha Cruiser event. STAR Touring expected 1200-1800 riders. I don't know what the official count was, but I'd guess around 400-600 people. (including two-ups).

In preparation for Star Days, Yamaha consigned us approx 30k in inventory (normal store level is about 5k), Barons Custom Accessories consigned us about 70k in inventory. This meant for about 10 days before the event, and for probably the next week, I've got two employees (remember I have 12 total) JUST dealing with what we sold/what we got/what we owe, etc.

During Star Days (which is when PART of Mike's issue happened), I had exactly half my staff at the store, and half off-site, including myself.

Are these excuses? No. But, they should serve as some explanation as to why for the last 3 weeks or so, TP has been "haywire". The upside is, miraculously, we pulled off what in the past has taken DOZENS of people to do..this is a real credit to my staff for their dedication, and willingness to work ridiculous hours to make it happen.

We also handled 4 or 5 "Yamaha Problems", at the request of Yamaha Motor Corp, USA which were out of state riders, and a few out of Country riders that would have been stranded without our efforts, (and the efforts of Yamaha's technical support overnighting parts from across the country)

Again, no excuses, just some explanation. This store can run just fine without me, under normal circumstances. Take our staff, cut it in half, and multiply our store traffic by approximately 10X (most of which wasn't "just shopping", it was all PROBLEM stuff), and I think even the best quarterback, and best team might catch a few penalties, and turn the ball over a few times.

[Punkin]

Though I’d rather not have that same tech touch my bike again.:up:

For reasons completely unrelated, and in no way derogoratory to that technician, he is no longer with us.

That being said, I have no issue with the way you brought this up (but I do wish you'd have just called me, I'm a pretty good guy--just ask me!) my issue is with the "HANG THEM" mentality that came from the forum before ANYTHING was really known by me, or anyone besides the employee you had an issue with was offered a chance to make things right.

I'm confident, and I've received your PM, that you and I can work through this. As I've already acknowledged, we dropped the ball, at least in some respects, and you have sort of acknowledged that you jumped the gun in some respects. You know your parts are here, and I hope we can get them installed, (and I'm willing to do it myself with you watching), and you can report back here what a class operation TP truly is.

The last three weeks has brought some really extenuating circumstances to my store, including, as you and I have discussed via PM, the untimely death of not one, but two of my wife's grandparents. I truly hope the chaos has a close end in sight, so we can get back to our original goal--being the one dealership that no one ever says, "They're all dipshits," "They're Stealerships," "They're peons," etc.

My crew is a quality crew, and I challenge anyone to show me a team as underpaid, overworked, and understaffed that accomplishes as much as mine! My hope is that as things come together, and as I continue to refuse to adhere to the standard dealership, "Hire a warm body to stand there," mentality, that the difference will continue to shine between everyone else and us.

FWIW--this is for Dean (because you voiced it as an issue)--I challenge you come in the store, hang out, and find ONE person who has bought a bike/quad/boat from us in the last year who is not greeted by NAME and asked how their unit is doing. I probably only work out to about 75%, but my sales guys know who butters their bread, and their biggest fault is spending TOO much time talking to previous customers--not ignoring them!

If it's a Victory rider, you can almost bet that they have already been on a TP sponsored ride with us, and they know more about me, my bike (and vice versa) than many people know about their spouse!

--Scott
GM
Twin Peaks Powersports

[Kim-n-Dean]

FWIW--this is for Dean (because you voiced it as an issue)--I challenge you come in the store, hang out, and find ONE person who has bought a bike/quad/boat from us in the last year who is not greeted by NAME and asked how their unit is doing. I probably only work out to about 75%, but my sales guys know who butters their bread, and their biggest fault is spending TOO much time talking to previous customers--not ignoring them!

--Scott
GM
Twin Peaks Powersports

I've always heard great things about TP.

Since I've never dealt with you guys, you don't fall into my generalized opinions of the places I have dealt with.

I know Curtis, a little, and almost had the pleasure of doing business with you guys. I was buying two WR's and TP was the second best price I got. Obvioulsy, I went with the lower price and I guess I paid for it a little in customer service or lack there of. To be honest, though, since I don't go in there or anywhere really, I guess I really don't care about the customer service, if it means a better price. Just business... nothing personal to anyone either.

I'm not trying to go back and forth so, I hope all the above came out right.

[Punkin]

I've always heard great things about TP.

Obvioulsy, I went with the lower price and I guess I paid for it a little in customer service or lack there of. To be honest, though, since I don't go in there or anywhere really, I guess I really don't care about the customer service, if it means a better price. Just business... nothing personal to anyone either.

I'm not trying to go back and forth so, I hope all the above came out right.

Ok, so now we've drawn an obvious line as to what is important to you. If price is the ultimate, I can promise you I will be the "cheapest" about 1% of the time. If circumstances work out where I have more product than I think I can feasibly get rid of in a model year, I might start making stupid deals.

But realistically Dean, you lose 100% of your credibility with me, and any other sane person reading these forums, when you say what you say above... let me quote for a second time...

"To be honest, though, since I don't go in there or anywhere really, I guess I really don't care about the customer service, if it means a better price. Just business... nothing personal to anyone either."

I'm fine with this opinion, and if you are looking for the best price, that's cool too...but where do you get off offering opinions as to how things should be, when you are a self-defined cheap ass who will sacrifice customer service for price? Again, I'm not saying that's wrong, I've been in your shoes myself, but I wasn't on the sidelines badmouthing every dealership on the planet for sucking, and then hypocritically saying that they should rock, but be cheap! :(

Again, I'm not saying your point of view is invalid, but if that's how you feel, you are, by self definition, NOT the guy who should be posting ANYTHING about how dealerships should be--you already said yourself you don't care!

For those of you who do care--I'm not the cheapest shop in the Denver metro, in fact, we're probably, outside of tires (and Dean's Garage) on the higher side of what dealerships charge.

That being said, outside of this single incident in 20 months of owning this store, Mike's isolated issue is the only negative issue I am aware of on this forum, related to my store. (Ok, so I can't get you a good deal on Avon tires, not my fault--just buy them online, and I'll mount 'em! :) )

The comments from guys like Dean, who despite their other credibility otherwise have been totally destroyed by their own comments within this thread should be disregarded.

Do you truly want to go to a Fremont Motorsports style concept of sell @ invoice -5% and think you'll have local dealers? It's not going to happen!

Anyone who thinks they have a better solution, please contact me directly. Get out of your garage, bring me about $3.5M in cash or bank loans, and I'll gladly give you your shot, in a great interstate location at Hwy 66 @ I-25, exit 243.

If you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is, that's cool...just understand our investment, and our willingness to step up when we've screwed up. That's about 100 miles ahead of most local dealers, and about 10 jumps into reality past what I've read in this thread.

--Scott
GM
Twin Peaks Powersports

[Wahooman]

So now as it seems everyone is giving hugs and kisses again......:lol:
Volition.....quit hitting stuff in the road and you won't have this problem.....:king: j/k I know things will get worked out.

[madkaw77]

Do you truly want to go to a Fremont Motorsports style concept of sell @ invoice -5% and think you'll have local dealers? It's not going to happen!

--Scott
GM
Twin Peaks Powersports

What do you mean by this statement? I personally know the owner, and I have dealt with them on many occasions and know people that have dealt with them and have great things to say. He also is short staffed and does not pay his employees alot, and they bust their butts. He just likes to pass the savings to his customers when he can afford to. Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to say that you rip off customers or anything, because I am not a business man nor do I claim to know how the sales of motorcycles go, I am just rambling on.

[Punkin]

What do you mean by this statement? I personally know the owner, and I have dealt with them on many occasions and know people that have dealt with them and have great things to say. He also is short staffed and does not pay his employees alot, and they bust their butts. He just likes to pass the savings to his customers when he can afford to. Don't take this wrong, I don't mean to say that you rip off customers or anything, because I am not a business man nor do I claim to know how the sales of motorcycles go, I am just rambling on.

This is an easy one to respond to. I bet, in fact, I am the only Colorado Yamaha dealer willing to voice an opinion on this one...however, ALL of us are doing our damndest to get his Yamaha Franchise taken away. It's rather simple, and it goes to the very politics of Yamaha USA. In fact, it's quite hypocritical. Yamaha wants us to build value in their product, and sell for only MSRP+....yet, yamaha won't do anything about the guy who advertises ON EBAY, "why pay msrp? we guarantee the lowest price" Then he can turn around and brag he's the top 10 blah blah blah in the last blah blah blah.

Quite frankly, if I was located in podunk, co, and i had no overhead, I could probably whore out product (like 2006 R1's) for less than MSRP, and for thousands less than other Denver metro dealers.

That being said, it's a short lived business plan, and that's what my point was. I am not badmouthing the shop directly, I am badmouthing their marketing decisions. If their marketing doesn't result in them losing their franchises (which it should), then it will likely lead to what Yamaha is considering, which may or may not be good for consumers---a system that is based on a "MAP" (minimum advertised price), allocations based not on sales volume but sales gross profit, based on CSI (customer satisfaction index), etc.

In other words, if you want to see the motorcycle world get more sadistically like the automotive sales world, bring on the Fremont Motorsports Marketing plan!

That said, stop by any colorado Yamaha dealer and ask if they will trade UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES with Fremont. You'll find that their business practices have left them few friends in the powersports world.

That being said, I don't disagree with what you say...they are nice guys, and I've made the mistake of sending them some of my inventory that they retail out at cost -3%. I can assure you (and them) that I will not make that mistake again!

The fact of the matter is, despite what Dean, yourself, or anyone else says or does, at the end of the month, my banker wants to be paid. I cannot pay the banker by selling units for 10% under MSRP which is about 3% less than cost. Maybe there is some secret rebate I don't know about, but I have to make sure I pay my bills, and fortunately, I have built a customer base that appreciates the service we provide, and are willing to pay for it, so that they dont' stop by next week to find out our doors have been locked by the bank!

--Scottt
Unashamed of my opinions
GM, Twin Peaks Powersports, Longmont, CO

[madkaw77]

That is a very fair answer. I can tell that you have your head on straight and that you run your business well. I just think it is like you said that Fremont has low overhead so they can afford to lower their prices. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so, but if what you said could happen does happen, then that would suck. Until then you can't be a hater on shops in podunk, CO. Which by the way, I live in Florence, and it is not podunk.

[Stuart Little]

Wow, I know Dean can stand up for himself here, but you really shouldn't make blanket statements like calling someone cheap if you've never even seen the person!Dean is one of the more selfless people on this board always willing to lend a hand even when he doesn't have the most time in the world.

Dean's "cheapness" as you call it is simply him knowing what he's doing w/motorcycles. He said he didn't care about the service because he got a great price and doesn't really need the help working on the bike, but he doesn't condone people brushing someone off because they've made the sale.

If you knew ahead of time about this event then simply say, sorry we can't take your bike right now, we can't give the same high quality service we normally do. I mean its better you're out a few bucks then him being out a motorcycle for 2 months!

that's just my 2 cents.

[Punkin]

That is a very fair answer. I can tell that you have your head on straight and that you run your business well. I just think it is like you said that Fremont has low overhead so they can afford to lower their prices. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so, but if what you said could happen does happen, then that would suck. Until then you can't be a hater on shops in podunk, CO. Which by the way, I live in Florence, and it is not podunk.

I am starting to feel that this is the, "only honest dealer in the world willing to voice his opinion vs. the world thread"...

I appreciate your honesty. I don't think it's bad that Fremont can lower their prices. I do think it's bad that they go outside their market area to be the lowest, on price only, knowing that they will not have to deal with future warranty or service issues. In fact, in many states (i.e. Texas, where this has recently become a major legal issue) their are franchise protections which prohibit the actions of dealers like Fremont.

That being said, regardless of legalitity, I still say it's a short term business plan, as dealers already are unwilling to trade with them, which is an unfortunate side effect for the consumer, who just wants to buy something and have it now....

We'll see what the market bears. I personally don't think Yamaha has the balls to shut them down, and Kawi doesn't have enough dealers in CO as it is, so they will probably do fine for a while.
As far as hating on podunk dealers? Just consider it jealousy! My banker wants about 30K a month, whether or not I sold enough to pay him! :)

I'd love to be somewhere where I could own my land and just worry about selling a few units to buy some hotdogs and feed the crew! :)
--Scott

[madkaw77]

You have got to stop being so cool. It is impossible to flame on someone as classy and straight forward as you are. Just kidding about flaming on ya. I understand what you are saying, but I guess it is one of those catch 22 things. If Fremont had higher prices would people from other cities make the journey to buy a bike? I don't know, but would willing to bet he would not sell enough to "pay the bank" as you put it.

[Punkin]

Wow, I know Dean can stand up for himself here, but you really shouldn't make blanket statements like calling someone cheap if you've never even seen the person!Dean is one of the more selfless people on this board always willing to lend a hand even when he doesn't have the most time in the world.

Dean's "cheapness" as you call it is simply him knowing what he's doing w/motorcycles. He said he didn't care about the service because he got a great price and doesn't really need the help working on the bike, but he doesn't condone people brushing someone off because they've made the sale.

that's just my 2 cents.

Wow...seems like everyone has a dog in this fight...and the funny thing is, there is no fight. Frankly, that's the reason I still take time out of my day to respond. Mike and I are good. I believe we have worked out the issues of post #1. That being said, I am perfectly willing to take on all the bored, ignorant posters on behalf of any decent dealer (because as proud as I am, I know I am not the only one).

All of THAT being said, I still stand by the following:
Originally Posted by Kim-n-Dean
I've always heard great things about TP.

Obvioulsy, I went with the lower price and I guess I paid for it a little in customer service or lack there of. To be honest, though, since I don't go in there or anywhere really, I guess I really don't care about the customer service, if it means a better price. Just business... nothing personal to anyone either.

I am not insulting Dean personally, at least not intentionally...I am simply saying that based on his own words, he has no place for comment in this discussion. Did I call him a cheap ass? Yup...and I stand by that, as a fellow cheap ass. Does that mean Dean would not give me his kidney if he had an extra? No, of course not!

I'm not attacking Dean personally, because logical rational people can stick to the argument at hand (at which Dean had no place in, based on his own comments), I am simply saying that based on his statements, he has no place from which to judge local dealerships. Clearly, if you want good, cheap, service, just stop by Dean's.

My caution though, again by his own admission, is that Dean said himself that he is lazy, and it might take a while to get your free/cheap services performed :)

[madkaw77]

Oh, by the way. If I lived in your area, I would throw you some business because I am a stickler for customer service. Unlike the other person that said they don't care and just want cheap, I do care and will pay more (to a certain extent) for customer service such as what you are talking about.

[Punkin]

[quote=madkaw77]You have got to stop being so cool. It is impossible to flame on someone as classy and straight forward as you are. \quote]

Hey, I'll just leave it at that! I think you got the point right there!

Seriously...buy local! If you live there, buy from your local dealer! If they have to raise prices, just remember...would you rather come to Longmont for warranty service, or have a local dealer?

That being said, as far as I am concerned, they can stay out of my market! My customers like me, for the most part, and the internet has made it very difficult to compete with the guy 100 miles away with very different overhead costs.

It will all balance out in the future...I just want folks to know I plan to be around to play, in the "end times!"

Nice chatting with you...
--Scott

[madkaw77]

Nice chatting with you...
--Scott

Like wise. :drink:

[Punkin]

Oh, by the way. If I lived in your area, I would throw you some business because I am a stickler for customer service. Unlike the other person that said they don't care and just want cheap, I do care and will pay more (to a certain extent) for customer service such as what you are talking about.

Well...I'd love to induce you to come up...but that would make me a hypocrite, wouldn't it...based on what I've said about Fremont! Support your local dealer...and tell them to stay local!

--Scott

[madkaw77]

Do you accept the Kawi. card? If you do I wouldn't mind spending some money at your place to help with the banker situation.

[BHeth]

Wow, this thread is valuable. It's like Twin Peaks is advertising why not to go to their shop. They admit to being overpriced (it's OK though, because the banker wants their money), and more than willing to take your ride in the service bay even if they know they can't handle the load (again I guess because the banker wants their money).

It's like TP's bad lease is being passed on to riders across the metro area. Or maybe it's not a bad lease? It's just so expensive to be a big, sweet dealer in Colorado, and we should live with it because the banker wants their money?

Thanks for informing me about you business! You've saved me the time and hassle of going into your dealership to buy a new bike or get service(or recommending you to anyone else).

Why didn't you just stop with admitting you hadn't done a good job with dude's bike? Why start defending yourself and blasting other forum members. I fail to see how this is "classy". The more you post, the worse you make yourself and your business sound.

P.S. When did good customer service become something you have to pay extra for?

[Kim-n-Dean]

But realistically Dean, you lose 100% of your credibility with me, and any other sane person reading these forums, when you say what you say above... let me quote for a second time...

"To be honest, though, since I don't go in there or anywhere really, I guess I really don't care about the customer service, if it means a better price. Just business... nothing personal to anyone either."

I'm fine with this opinion, and if you are looking for the best price, that's cool too...but where do you get off offering opinions as to how things should be, when you are a self-defined cheap ass who will sacrifice customer service for price? Again, I'm not saying that's wrong, I've been in your shoes myself, but I wasn't on the sidelines badmouthing every dealership on the planet for sucking, and then hypocritically saying that they should rock, but be cheap! :(
If this is what you take from what I say, then we cleary, can't communicate. Or, you can't absorb the substance of what I'm squawking about.

I walk into a business, any business, to get the best deal I can. I also walk in knowing that the people will probably be idiots and have no people skills, like me.

If someome posts on this board, I have every right to express my experiences AND my opinions!!! Welcome to America and the wonderful world of retard internet posting!!


Dean's "cheapness" as you call it is simply him knowing what he's doing w/motorcycles. He said he didn't care about the service because he got a great price and doesn't really need the help working on the bike, but he doesn't condone people brushing someone off because they've made the sale.Exactly!! I'm sure Scott will misinterpret this and reply with something off the wall.


If you knew ahead of time about this event then simply say, sorry we can't take your bike right now, we can't give the same high quality service we normally do. I mean its better you're out a few bucks then him being out a motorcycle for 2 months! That's what responsible businesses do. Honesty with the client, up front.



I am not insulting Dean personally, at least not intentionally...I am simply saying that based on his own words, he has no place for comment in this discussion. Did I call him a cheap ass? Yup...and I stand by that, as a fellow cheap ass. Does that mean Dean would not give me his kidney if he had an extra? No, of course not! Once again, wrong... So, when you bought/leased your building and land for the dealership, did you try to get the best deal you could? If not, you're a terrible business man!!


I'm not attacking Dean personally, because logical rational people can stick to the argument at hand (at which Dean had no place in, based on his own comments), I am simply saying that based on his statements, he has no place from which to judge local dealerships. Clearly, if you want good, cheap, service, just stop by Dean's. I have every right to judge. The crappy service that exists today is why I think the way I do!!


My caution though, again by his own admission, is that Dean said himself that he is lazy, and it might take a while to get your free/cheap services performed :) Now, you're just being a dick. Well done!!


Wow, this thread is valuable. It's like Twin Peaks is advertising why not to go to their shop. They admit to being overpriced (it's OK though, because the banker wants their money), and more than willing to take your ride in the service bay even if they know they can't handle the load (again I guess because the banker wants their money).

It's like TP's bad lease is being passed on to riders across the metro area. Or maybe it's not a bad lease? It's just so expensive to be a big, sweet dealer in Colorado, and we should live with it because the banker wants their money?

Thanks for informing me about you business! You've saved me the time and hassle of going into your dealership to buy a new bike or get service(or recommending you to anyone else).

Why didn't you just stop with admitting you hadn't done a good job with dude's bike? Why start defending yourself and blasting other forum members. I fail to see how this is "classy". The more you post, the worse you make yourself and your business sound.

P.S. When did good customer service become something you have to pay extra for?
Laughing my ass off!!! Well said!! I was beginning to think the same thing!!


Oookaaay!! next!!

[Punkin]

P.S. When did good customer service become something you have to pay extra for?

I can't be specific, but it was around the time that the U.S. Economy moved from an industrial economy to a Service economy. At that time, mom and pop shops started to see that they could not compete with big box stores on price, and instead started to tout service, priced at a premium, something which U.S. consumers have been willing to pay extra for for quite a number of years.

It was during this time that you saw the surge of "big box stores," such as Sam's Club, Costco, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. The american consumer got a great deal, but generally speaking didn't have "professionals" to provide them with any service.

It was during this same time that you saw the small town specialty stores either close their doors, or step up their knowledge and sales staff, and earn the premium that was required to cover their overhead.

Some would argue that we've moved beyond the "service economy" to an "experience economy" where the service has been stepped up to goofy atmosphere, and quality of product isn't as important as "having a good time in the moment".

Examples here would be Southwest Airlines budget no frills flights, but goofy flight attendants telling jokes, etc. Another example might be Dave & Busters--the food isn't inexpensive, but where else can you have a burger, a beer, and play about a billion different video games. Rainforest Cafe, Barber shops with young attractive female barbers and sports on dozens of televisions...the list goes on.

Not trying to be a smart aleck, just answering the question!

--Scott

[Gramps]

i'm going to jump in here and hopefully provide a point or two towards this discussion.

i understand everyone wants a good deal. Hell i'm right there with the rest of ya'll cheap asses. i am probably one of the most extreme cheap asses that you know.

with that being said i will pay more for good service.

i'll give you a couple of examples.

i recently lowsided and had to have some repairs done to the bike. i looked for the best deal. i am still waiting on the bike parts to be returned to me. the accident happened in april. i'm not compaining because i knew what i was getting into. and i had plenty of time due to the healing process of major leg fractures.


i absolutly refuse to shop at wal-mart. i will pay more to the local drug store/ grocery store/ etc. because i don't want to stand in a long line with rednecks , in an atmosphere that i find repulsive. this might be snobish but i had rather pay for the better experience. may be the same thing in the same box for cheaper, but i had rather support somewhere that supports me.

i think punkin has every right to be more expensive if he wants. it is his buisness to run. i personally wouldn't take my yamaha anywhere else to have service done. as his customer if i am paying his price i feel like i will be taken care of, and if i am not then there will be someone i can express this concern to.

if i take my bike to someone who is working out of a whole in the wall off some side street it doesn't instill a lot of confidence in their work. it also doesn't give me much outlet if something was to occur that needed extra attention.

i have done buisness with punkin in the past and will continue to do buisness with him. he has always wowed me at both locations.

[Volition]

First off this thread is going way off topic, secondly I can see that Scott is being singled out a bit and I don’t think that is fair. He has been honest and forthcoming, willing to help (me) and I don’t think he needs to defend his business, don’t like it don’t go there (I think he said as much earlier).

That being, I just checked out Fremont (never even heard of them before this), I gotta be honest with you, I may consider them for my next Bike purchase. They have a public list of all their prices on their site and a 2006 R1 is priced at a full $1000 less then MSRP! And that includes freight/setup and other fees most other dealers ADD to MSRP (usually something like $300 or so). Would I consider the drive to save 100-200 or maybe even 300 bucks, no. But upwards of a grand, yes, and I don’t think ANYONE could hold that against me or anyone else for that matter.

Scott, like I’ve stated several times before with the exception of this incident I have always had good dealings with you guys, but you can not blame a customer for wanting to make a 2 to3 hour drive to save upwards of a 1000 dollars on their bike, some are as much as 1500 LESS then MSRP including fees! That’s a lot of money considering it’s the same product as everyone else has.

I also don’t think you can blame Fremont for selling for that price. If they can do that and keep the doors open why should they not? You said yourself you would do the same if you did not have the bank to pay? As far as staying in their market, I don’t understand your statement. What do you mean by this? Are you saying that a dealership should only be allowed to sell to local people and not advertise outside of their “region”, if so what is their region and who would determine where one dealer can sell bikes and another cant, would that mean since I live in Fort Collins I would HAVE to go to FCMS for bikes, service, and parts and not be able to go to you? Or would there be a mileage limit on how far away I can overlap my choices, i.e. I could go to Fort Collins, Longmont, or Greeley but not Denver?

Or do you just think there should be a limit on how “cheaply” a dealer can sell a bike, if so should there not also be a set to limit how much you can add to MSRP, like I don’t know ZERO? Personally I think Bikes should be sold for MSRP plus tax out the door for everyone. Some dealers will add on freight/setup, etc claming that it is an addition cost, which it is not, it is additional profit, while others will sell the same bike for 200 under MSRP out the door. If you can chose to sell at what ever price you want Freemont should be able to do the same, right? You can’t have it both ways, most dealers are not honest with their customers concerning price so why not take that out of the equation and sell everything for what the manufacturer suggests and not some arbitrary number?

Why do you say they can sell so cheaply b/c they will not have to worry about warranty or service issues? Is that not money that you or other dealers closer to the customer will be making in spite of not having sold the bike? If you can not compete with them on the price of the bike at least you’ll get the service?

Also it looks like they have been around since at least 2001ish so they must be doing something right.

I’m all for supporting local businesses but at what’s amounts to 50 bucks in gas and a day spent in Colorado springs to save $1000 or more, I gotta say if I were in the market now, which I’m not, I would have to consider spending the day in the springs with my new bike.

----

And about paying more for service, and this is just for arguments sake and not how I fell one way or another, but, your argument does not hold water. Unlike mom and pop stores one can not purchase a motorcycle from Sam’s club or the likes, there are no “big box” stores that compete with you in your market, there are some dealers larger then others but generally speaking dealerships are pretty much on the same playing field. What you said is true, but you are, as they say, comparing apples to oranges.

You could however argue that one pays more for the convenience of going to a local dealer to buy a bike, pays more for competent techs to work on those bikes, and pays more for the warm fuzzy feeling that if something comes up it will be taken care of promptly and with a smile. =)

---

In any case I look forward to hearing from you; I hope everything goes well with your funeral(s). You sound like a smart guy and one who’s fun to talk to.

-Mike

PS If you feel like it’s you against the world consider that you are the only “supplier” posting here, the rest of us are all consumers so we tend to see things differently then you. Different shoes and all.

PPS, Wow I’m long winded.

[Wahooman]

understand everyone wants a good deal. Hell i'm right there with the rest of ya'll cheap asses. i am probably one of the most extreme cheap asses that you know.


You got that right!!!:) Tom you are always so honest....hehe. How is the leg doing anyway??

[Volition]

I just read Gramps’s post as he posted it while I was typing. One more thing to add…

There is a HUGE difference in service/repair work and product sale. One includes technical competence the other not so much. I will always be willing to pay for professional service done to my bike, and thus take it to where I believe I will get the best service. Provided my issue gets resolved, and I’m confident that it will, that place will be Twin peaks (about a 45min drive for me btw).

I will however also seek out the best price for a new bike and go where I will save the most, all the R1’s are the same and I don’t think I should have to pay more for one then the other, so I will pay as little as possible. IMO.

[Nick_Ninja]

If I would ever owned a Yamaha-ha I most likely would take it to TP -------- unless Geoff Cesmatt from Graves Motorsports is home here in 'B' town cuz that guy is THE DOCTOR on the 'Y' type bikes.

http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/uploads/DGC.JPG

It all boils down to you get what you pay for.

[Volition]

It all boils down to you get what you pay for.

Sometimes Nick, You overpay for what you get. :)

[Nick_Ninja]

Sometimes Nick, You overpay for what you get. :)


"Say It's only a paper Moon /.../Just as phoney as it can be/
But it wouldn't be make believe/If you believed in me."
Rose, B.; Harburg, E.; Arlen, H. (1933), It's Only a Paper Moon.

[InlineSIX24]

Almost didn't post because it seems that it has gotten off topic but; I am another one of those people who don't mind paying a little more if I get the good service. I think it all comes back around because in order for a place to hire the best employees sometimes it takes paying them a little more than other places. That may mean that both the products and the service are a bit pricier, but its the whole picture to run the business. A lot of times if the pricing is 'too' undercut and the ebay guys are out there passing off counterfeit or used stuff as new it lessens the name brand of a product and forces the manufacturer to enforce MAP pricing on the dealers.

[Butterfly]

I've contacted BBB in the past and nothing happened. I would take it to the top, but I wouldnt threat them just yet, they might screw you even more.

[Wahooman]

I've contacted BBB in the past and nothing happened. I would take it to the top, but I wouldnt threat them just yet, they might screw you even more.

Have you not read any of this thread???? Problem is solved and the two parties directly involved are working on it.........:roll:

[Gramps]

You got that right!!!:) Tom you are always so honest....hehe. How is the leg doing anyway??


leg is getting stronger


off the crutches completely now, just walking slow(just like i ride):)

[Kim-n-Dean]

leg is getting stronger


off the crutches completely now, just walking slow(just like i ride):)

Just call him Gimpy!!! Ya old bastard!!!

[Gramps]

thanks dean

i knew i could count on you


how you and the wife been?


hope everything is well:)

[Sully]

I won't shop at Wal-Mart either... fucking redneck trailer park trashy bitches ! no wait.. the one I go to has the rich folk who drive up in their Mercedes, Jag's, Lexus and Humveee's... ahh.. they're still all the same.. bitching about a .50 cent coupon... You can take the person out of the trailer, but you can't take the trailer out of the person.. ! I hate rude bastids !!! :scream1:

[Kim-n-Dean]

thanks dean

i knew i could count on you


how you and the wife been?


hope everything is well:)

Hey, you picked the screen name...

I wish I would have been thinking clear enough last time we saw each other to suggest lunch and a beer.

[Wahooman]

leg is getting stronger


off the crutches completely now, just walking slow(just like i ride):)
Again your honesty never stops amazing me.....slow poke....hehe

[livinlife2themax]

I can't be specific, but it was around the time that the U.S. Economy moved from an industrial economy to a Service economy. At that time, mom and pop shops started to see that they could not compete with big box stores on price, and instead started to tout service, priced at a premium, something which U.S. consumers have been willing to pay extra for for quite a number of years.

It was during this time that you saw the surge of "big box stores," such as Sam's Club, Costco, Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. The american consumer got a great deal, but generally speaking didn't have "professionals" to provide them with any service.

It was during this same time that you saw the small town specialty stores either close their doors, or step up their knowledge and sales staff, and earn the premium that was required to cover their overhead.

Some would argue that we've moved beyond the "service economy" to an "experience economy" where the service has been stepped up to goofy atmosphere, and quality of product isn't as important as "having a good time in the moment".

Examples here would be Southwest Airlines budget no frills flights, but goofy flight attendants telling jokes, etc. Another example might be Dave & Busters--the food isn't inexpensive, but where else can you have a burger, a beer, and play about a billion different video games. Rainforest Cafe, Barber shops with young attractive female barbers and sports on dozens of televisions...the list goes on.

Not trying to be a smart aleck, just answering the question!

--Scott Well i think this is kinda BS! Due to the fact that there is a mom and pop place here in aurora...."Aurora honda" it has been in business for over 30 years! there service is great and there people have always treated me right. Not to mention that they matched the price that fay myers was quoteing me for my new bike and then they gave me more for my trade in! So how is it that a little store in this day and age was able to compete with the big super snoby store "fay myers"?

[BenDover]

:horse:

[madkaw77]

I agree. Not to mention this thread is way off topic. I can't believe it hasn't been locked yet. All I had to do is say that Anthony's wheelie rocked, and that thread got locked whithin minutes :crazy: . Oh well, everyone have one one me :drink:

[Gramps]

the difference is this is a meaningful conversation


between intelligent civilized adults


:)

[Sully]

I'm more than happy to help out a local mom and pop shop... I actually purchased a few items there last year and they were :up: .. .. but I thought that Aurora Honda - only works on Honda's ??? :dunno:..

[livinlife2themax]

I'm more than happy to help out a local mom and pop shop... I actually purchased a few items there last year and they were :up: .. .. but I thought that Aurora Honda - only works on Honda's ??? :dunno:.. I have seen them work on everything... They had a R1 in there the other day workin on it....They dont discriminate, i mean there have been times where they have sent something to another place just casue they were unable to work on it.. But they are great!

[Sully]

Odd.. I remember specifically asking them if they worked on Suzuki's (same question posed to Vickery) and the service tech said no... Hmm.. maybe they changed their minds :dunno:... :)