FZ1 idles only when choked/running on 3 jugs?

[DanFZ1]

It has been waaay too long since I have posted here. Long time no see Colorado...

So, anyway:

I moved to Illinois and let my '03 FZ1 sit for awhile. When it was time for a family reunion I got the bike out and took the nieces and nephews for a couple of short rides each and the bike ran fine.

About 3 weeks later it was incredibly hot and humid and I got the bike out again and could not get it to idle without leaving the choke on. I put 2 gallons of gas in the tank to top it off and rode until about 1/3 of a tank was left. Any thing below 3500 rpms and the engine wanted to die on me. When I got back i still had to keep the choke on to keep the engine running.

1. This bike was bought new at Colorado Power Sports in Boulder. Does anyone know if bike shops change the factory settings on carbs at altitude? If so, would that make a difference at my altitude which is much lower?

2. Could the 90+ heat and the 90 + hummidity be part of the problem? I have not had a chance to mess with my bike until today so i am going out to the shed to tap on the carbs and check the plugs (which have 14,000 miles on them as does the rest of the bike).

3. How do I proceed/trouble shoot the problem logically. ( I do not even know for sure if this is a carb problem but it does kinda sound like it).

What mystifies me is how the bike could operate flawlessly on one day and then run like crap 3 weeks later.

4. I do not want to act like a complete idiot when i take my bike in for a tune up. I live in Illinois now and do not know who to trust, and my tools and mechanical skills are limited as is my wallet. I am a student once again. Computers I know. Motorcycles? Well, maybe not so much.

5. hep me hep me somebody pleaze hep me.

[BHeth]

This is just a round about thought. Check the battery. I think the generator kicks in about 3.5K rpms. My line of thought is that below the charging point the battery doesn't have enough juice to keep the bike going.

[DanFZ1]

This is just a round about thought. Check the battery. I think the generator kicks in about 3.5K rpms. My line of thought is that below the charging point the battery doesn't have enough juice to keep the bike going.
Thanx for the input. As near as I can tell water must have condensed inside the partially empty tank from the high heat/high humidity. I ran another full tank of gas through it and now the only problem remaining is knocking or pinging pulling away from stop lights if I don't revv it a bit, which is something I never had to do with this bike before. Maybe it's time to get the carbs synched but I don't know how to do that.

'later

[Lee]

If you have water in your fuel tank, add a fuel additive that will specifically absorb water, and that will clean your fuel lines, tank, and carbs, run the tank until near empty, then fill it up with the best quality gasoline you can buy.

I once had an over-the-winter issue with gasoline in the 2002 FZ1 I used to own. Getting rid of the old gasoline made all the symptoms disappear.

When was the last time you had the carbs sync'ed? I believe that is required every 4000 or 8000 miles on an FZ1.

Lee

P.S. Especially with carbs, you should never let your bike sit for more than 2-3 weeks without running it.

[DanFZ1]

IWhen was the last time you had the carbs sync'ed? I believe that is required every 4000 or 8000 miles on an FZ1.

Well .... um .... to be honest? ( ...never...)

'cause, see, well actually, I dont have the right tools and (lame excuse in progress) and yamaha shops are not quite as plentiful here in central illinois like they are back in Colorado.

[Lee]

I mis-posted.

I suggested adding a fuel additive that would absorb alcohol.

Incorrect.

Add one that will specifically absorb water.

Lee

[Lee]

My mechanic explained to me that the carb sync operation primarily effects the bike at idle speed, nothing more.

Lee

[Mel]

My mechanic explained to me that the carb sync operation primarily effects the bike at idle speed, nothing more.

Lee

It doesn't really just effect the bike at idle. Sync'ing the carb is basically a process of matching the "butterflies" on the carbs so that they open the same amount, which optimizes the bike and prevents one cylinder from running "harder" than another one. It may help your bike out though, and it probably wouldn't hurt to have them at least checked (it is a VERY quick and easy process to do).

To fix/help a "ping" I think something like a higher octane (or an additive) or a timing retard/advance (I think it is retard...ask someone smarter whether it need advance or retard to fix ping) would be the solution for that. Something like this: http://www.holeshot.com/fz1/fz1_advancer.shtml

For reference, a quote from the service manual for your bike:
Recommended Fuel
….The FZ1 engine was designed to use regular unleaded gasoline, with a pump octane number of (R=M)/2, of 86 or higher, or a research octane number of 91 or higher.
….If knocking/pinging occurs, try a different brand of gas or premium of 91-93 octane.
….Yamaha indicates gasohol containing ethanol can be used if the ethanol content does not exceed 10%. They do not recommend gasohol utilizing methanol, as it can damage the fuel system, seals, and cause performance issues.

[Lee]

It doesn't really just effect the bike at idle. Sync'ing the carb is basically a process of matching the "butterflies" on the carbs so that they open the same amount, which optimizes the bike and prevents one cylinder from running "harder" than another one.

True. But, the primary effect of the carbs being out of synchronization is that when the butterflies are mostly closed (at idle), the differences in air-fuel mixture flow rates are the greatest. As the butterflies are opened, those differences quickly become virtually insignificant.

Lee

[Mel]

True. But, the primary effect of the carbs being out of synchronization is that when the butterflies are mostly closed (at idle), the differences in air-fuel mixture flow rates are the greatest. As the butterflies are opened, those differences quickly become virtually insignificant.

Lee

Noted....however, per his post, he is specifically noting the issue at low RPM's (under 3500) which should still be on the "idle" jet of the carb. However pinging is more specifically related to compression and fuel more than it is carb's being out of sync.

[Lee]

Agreed.

I am more concerned about the pinging than the poor idle characteristics. If a full tank of fresh, high octane, high quality gas doesn't solve the problem immediately, I think you need to take it to a mechanic post haste. Continued pinging can quickly cause engine damage.

Lee

[Mel]

Meh, long term maybe a ping will mess it up...a couple of tanks of gas with it pinging/not running right isn't gonna cause it to blow up. Try using the highest octane you can get there (91-93 I presume) and try a different brand than you were previously using. For example, I refuse to use 7-11 gas in any of my bikes because my GSX-R (carb'd) freaks out and will barely run/accelerate on that stuff, even using 91 octane. Also, in case you didn't already know this, NEVER fill up at a station where a tanker is refilling the tanks...it stirs up all kinds of stuff to piss off a bike (or car for that matter).

[Rhino]

Most FZers don't know about this site, but next time try http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/

Damn near every problem has been covered several times. (use the search button) Just don't bring up wd-40 for your chain.

[DanFZ1]

True. But, the primary effect of the carbs being out of synchronization is that when the butterflies are mostly closed (at idle), the differences in air-fuel mixture flow rates are the greatest. As the butterflies are opened, those differences quickly become virtually insignificant.

Lee

That sounds like my bike. So, I guess I'll have to take the bike in or buy what I don't have yet to try syncing them myself. As it is, I just dropped $443 on books for the fall semester. There goes the holeshot spark advancer gizzmo right out the window.

[DanFZ1]

Most FZers don't know about this site, but next time try http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/

Damn near every problem has been covered several times. (use the search button) Just don't bring up wd-40 for your chain.

I'm actually on that board and forgot all about it, but I see in my email they sent me a birthday reminder? and anyway your right. They have the carburator thread pretty well covered.

One thing I was wondering though, they mentioned adding "dry gas" to the carbs or the fuel mixture or whatever and just what is that anyway? I have never heard of it before until now.

[Mel]

If it were me, being the cheap bastard I am, i would start with the least expensive thing (trying higher octane and different brand of gas) and go from there. Next, a carb sync tool is ~$50 for a decent mercury one, and should have instructions with it.

[Lee]

Meh, long term maybe a ping will mess it up...a couple of tanks of gas with it pinging/not running right isn't gonna cause it to blow up.

I didn't say blow it up. I said engine damage: piston crowns, rings, cylinder walls.

However, that being said, several members of TSBA that I know of, who are mindlessly attached to high octane, cheap pump gas, have recently blown up their sportbike engines for no apparent reason. Might there be a connection between cheap gas and engine damage?

My advice: Buy the most expensive name brand gas you can find. Go to a Shell station and fill it up with Shell V-Power. Then, see if it still pings. If it does, stop riding it and take it to a qualified mechanic.

Lee

[Rhino]

This is a cut and paste. I'm really not this brilliant.

Dry gas is basically alcohol, ethanol to be specific. The ethanol mixes with the water and keeps it from freezing when the temperature drops and makes it burnable. So yes, it does serve a very useful function. The engine doesn't matter. It could be a little three cylinder Geo Metro or the V-16 Cadillac. Condensation will still form in the gas tank and you will need the dry gas to keep it from freezing so it can be burned. The only place where dry gas would not help is in areas that require a 10% ethanol/gasoline blend which, in essence, puts in one gallon of dry gas in every ten gallons of gasoline.