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Bassil Duwaik
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 06:00 PM
First of all I'd like to thank you all very much for the invigorating ride today fellas. The few of us who managed to stick with it, you guys are good riders and I’d love to ride with you again. Moreover, my bike thanks you for letting be riden like it should, and pulling corners so tight that I scraped my shoes a few times. It’s not every day I get the opportunity to push the bike or myself as hard as I can (too much congestion).

Sadly though it wasn't a great ride from the get go. As you all know about 15-20 min into the ride we had a wreck. Not going to say any names but the person who wrecked behind me I hope you'll be kind enough to give me a copy of the video, and for those of you if you ever get the chance to watch the video you'll see me with the yellow jacket right in front. One other thing, thanks for not running into me man.

You got so close to me that I could nearly touch you; needless to say you did your best to not hit me, and the say 5 or so other guys ahead of me. Tragically this course of action caused you to fall and bring down another rider. Needless to say, I feel your pain guy and I think I speak for everyone when I say this, but we’ve all been down that road before, it’s just the nature of the sport. Hopefully you’ll get back-up and shake it off, of course a couple broken ribs won’t be something to shake off over night but it will heal.

With that said and done, the second accident happened roughly +-30min afterward (time flies when your having fun). Did anyone out there get that one on video? That was one wicked fall, clipped a tree hard enough to take the bark off of it, and clipped a pole, smashed into the ditch and only god knows how many somersaults he did after the ditch. Thankfully, believe it or not he was okay. A little shaken up but okay or at least he seemed to be.

Okay well I hope I don’t offend anyone with this post. I’m not by any means trying to express joy off of the nerve racking beginning, but simply and humbly trying to articulate my gratitude for the opportunity to ride with you guys.

FYI Let me know when and where and I’ll do it all over again, outside of what had happened today in the beg.
Oh and one other thing, sorry I didn’t meet you guys at the Conoco in the morning. I tried to call…next time I’ll leave a message. Sorry, again.

~Barn~
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 06:18 PM
Holy crap...
Didn't you guys have the pre-ride "don't crash" talk? :lol:

This might be the worst après ride thread I've ever read. Talk about a nauseating mix of "I pushed as hard as I can", with a side order of "sorry about the horrific crashes".

Glad nobody died.
:wtf:

Bassil Duwaik
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 06:27 PM
Come on barn, you of all people should talk, considering the predicament that you're in and the oh hmmm various likely scenarios that I'll bear the brunt off in the coming month(s). And it goes without saying that it is with deep regret what had happened to the ones who had fallen. It happens to EVERYONE at one point or another. No one WANTS to fall or for that matter die...that is not the objective, nor will it ever be. I should have noted nor I or anyone else was being wreckless. Not a single person did a wheelie or anything to that effect during the whole oh 7-8hr ride.

Feathered upstart!
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 06:32 PM
Maybe if they had been out doing wheelies they would not have wound up plowing through trees

schnorbitz
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 07:02 PM
This might be the worst après ride thread I've ever read. Talk about a nauseating mix of "I pushed as hard as I can", with a side order of "sorry about the horrific crashes".

I think you may be taking it a little out of context; you really had to be there to understand that the "I pushed as hard as I can", with a side order of "sorry about the horrific crashes" really were unrelated.

Aside from that, thanks to all for welcoming me. It was good to meet all of you guys. I saw some scenery and enjoyed some roads that I hadn't before. I had a really great time. What an awesome ride!!

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 07:09 PM
Not to throw salt in the wound... but after all you guys took off, Tim (YZF600) went down in GOlden Gate....

He's ok, but his knee is pretty fucked up... he's on his way to the hospital for some stitches.

Not a great day today.

~Barn~
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 07:13 PM
Come on barn, you of all people should talk, considering the predicament that you're in <snip...>

Sure... I've had a bit of trouble keeping the license in recent months. I get that, and those are my own bad decisions. I acknowledge that. You should know though, that I've never once gotten a ticket on a "group ride" with the CSC so-far-as I can remember. And last season in the course of dozens and dozens group rides that I went on with the N-Central group, we didn't experience a single wreck, and I think the only stop I remember was Gramps having a license plate that was mounted sketchy. He got a warning, and we were on our way.

I was really wondering though... did anybody conduct a pre-ride talk? The riding spirited part, I have no problem with. But 2 crashes (3 bikes down) within 45 minutes of departure? That's just either the worst case of bad-luck ever, or nobody took the liberty of dialing everybody down a notch before you rolled out. I really am just curious. Especially since you first paragraph spoke of the toe-dragging and 170+ speeds. And your previous post about Nick_Ninja not being able to keep-up if he ever attended a ride with you.

Don't mean to be a pesimist about the events. Maybe I'm just letting my imagination run. :dunno:

~Barn~
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 07:18 PM
Truely though, I'm glad nobody got seriously hurt, and I hope everybody gets their rides back quick.

I know I only have a hint of the whole story, not having been there, so I'll just read. Sucks though.

dapper
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 07:25 PM
:eek:
If this is the worst news today, could have been MUCH worse!
Heal quickly folks...

Side note:
On I-70 today, west bound, west of mm 221. Black sport bike with two CSPs behind it. Rider was either waiting in the back of the 1st silver safety car or out of fuel...?:|

schnorbitz
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 07:38 PM
Not to throw salt in the wound... but after all you guys took off, Tim (YZF600) went down in GOlden Gate....

He's ok, but his knee is pretty fucked up... he's on his way to the hospital for some stitches.

Not a great day today.

Man that sucks big time. Hope he heals quickly and is doing OK.

tm06r1
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 07:53 PM
Were any of the downed riders on an black 06 R6? Best wishes...heal quickly

Wahooman
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 08:02 PM
First of all I'd like to thank you all very much for the invigorating ride today fellas. The few of us who managed to stick with it, you guys are good riders and I’d love to ride with you again. Moreover, my bike thanks you for letting it fly pass 170mph, and pulling corners so tight that I scraped my shoes a few times. It’s not every day I get the opportunity to push the bike or myself as hard as I can (too much congestion).

Sadly though it wasn't a great ride from the get go. As you all know about 15-20 min into the ride we had a wreck. Not going to say any names but the person who wrecked behind me I hope you'll be kind enough to give me a copy of the video, and for those of you if you ever get the chance to watch the video you'll see me with the yellow jacket right in front. One other thing, thanks for not running into me man.

You got so close to me that I could nearly touch you; needless to say you did your best to not hit me, and the say 5 or so other guys ahead of me. Tragically this course of action caused you to fall and bring down another rider. Needless to say, I feel your pain guy and I think I speak for everyone when I say this, but we’ve all been down that road before, it’s just the nature of the sport. Hopefully you’ll get back-up and shake it off, of course a couple broken ribs won’t be something to shake off over night but it will heal.

With that said and done, the second accident happened roughly +-30min afterward (time flies when your having fun). Did anyone out there get that one on video? That was one wicked fall, clipped a tree hard enough to take the bark off of it, and clipped a pole, smashed into the ditch and only god knows how many somersaults he did after the ditch. Thankfully, believe it or not he was okay. A little shaken up but okay or at least he seemed to be.

Okay well I hope I don’t offend anyone with this post. I’m not by any means trying to express joy off of the nerve racking beginning, but simply and humbly trying to articulate my gratitude for the opportunity to ride with you guys.

FYI Let me know when and where and I’ll do it all over again, outside of what had happened today in the beg.
Oh and one other thing, sorry I didn’t meet you guys at the Conoco in the morning. I tried to call…next time I’ll leave a message. Sorry, again.
First glad to hear...or hope everyone is home and okay...all things considered.
Now........I am so glad I didn't participate in today's festivities. I am some what troubled with the post and reading about the mishaps. First pushing 170MPH on the roads....absolutely RETARDED. Sorry if that is harsh, but you can do whatever you want but that is just putting others in danger as well. I then read about how you are stating how close others are riding and rather want to know if there was videos of the wreck......maybe I am wrong but appears your head is in the wrong place?? "Hey sorry you crashed, possibly hurt, and bike is messed up......but can I get a video from you?" The CSC that I joined years ago was not and has not been like that. I agree with Barn on his points......was the a pre-ride meeting? Was there a dedicated leader of the ride? A "trailer" (person in back ensuring all riders make it to the checkpoing)? Doing 170MPH I can't believe the group stayed together.
Overall sounds like "not such a good day" and those days will happen. However there are some things you can do to prevent them and help reduce the risk to some degree.
Sounds like you should have come down to Pueblo on Saturday with all of us for the track day.....there you can open it up as much as you want, hit corners as fast as you like....and the best part is you don't have to worry about cars, gaurd rails, trees, gravel, etc........

Be smart out there everyone!!!!:|

-=LiQuiD=-
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 08:37 PM
I hope you'll be kind enough to give me a copy of the video.

Well, here it is:

http://home.earthlink.net/~whosyourdad/StovePrairie/StovePrarieCrash_9-3-2006.mpg (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ewhosyourdad/StovePrairie/StovePrarieCrash_9-3-2006.mpg)

I guess the camera didn't like the 2 or 3 tank slaps before I went down. This is all the footage I've got.

Anyone hear of fork seals causing a crash? I'm very curious.

crashin' sux

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 08:58 PM
First glad to hear...or hope everyone is home and okay...all things considered.
Now........I am so glad I didn't participate in today's festivities. I am some what troubled with the post and reading about the mishaps. First pushing 170MPH on the roads....absolutely RETARDED. Sorry if that is harsh, but you can do whatever you want but that is just putting others in danger as well. I then read about how you are stating how close others are riding and rather want to know if there was videos of the wreck......maybe I am wrong but appears your head is in the wrong place?? "Hey sorry you crashed, possibly hurt, and bike is messed up......but can I get a video from you?" The CSC that I joined years ago was not and has not been like that. I agree with Barn on his points......was the a pre-ride meeting? Was there a dedicated leader of the ride? A "trailer" (person in back ensuring all riders make it to the checkpoing)? Doing 170MPH I can't believe the group stayed together.
Overall sounds like "not such a good day" and those days will happen. However there are some things you can do to prevent them and help reduce the risk to some degree.
Sounds like you should have come down to Pueblo on Saturday with all of us for the track day.....there you can open it up as much as you want, hit corners as fast as you like....and the best part is you don't have to worry about cars, gaurd rails, trees, gravel, etc........

Be smart out there everyone!!!!:|

I was the group leader. We had a pre-ride meeting. An incredibly in depth meeting. All riders were aware of the obstacles, (cattle guards, possible catlle on the road, etc) THey were also told about the pace. Maybe they misunderstood when i said it would be a "spirited" pace... but that means quick.

THe first crash, the one involving 2 riders looks to have been caused by a bike malfunction. THe 2nd crash, was just a bad decision by the rider. If you've never made a bad decision, then you have room to talk. It's never a big deal when your bad decision turns into only a "close call" but when you go down because of it, yeah, it is a big deal.

All riders were told to ride at their own pace. And for the most part they did. Only 1 of the crashes today was b/c of "riding over one's head", and in addition to that, I think a shitty rear tire didn't help the cause. (still the fault of that rider).

The Uppity attitude of some of the community over here at CSC is what repelled me from coming over here in the first place. I think I'll stick over at sportbikes.ws where the community is warm, welcoming, and forgiving.

Bueller
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:00 PM
Holy shit! One thread about tickets adding up to enough points to revoke your license, then a post about doing 170 :shocked:

That just ain't using your head.

Go ahead and post your riding intentions so I know what group not to ride with.

Glad to hear no one died today, but with all the recent posts from people hell bent on riding stupid fast on public roads, it's just a mater of time. :roll:

Two days on the tracks this weekend (60+ bikes) and there have been a handfull of lowsides, all without injury and the bikes rode away.

McVaaahhh
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:04 PM
[quote=-=LiQuiD=-]Well, here it is:

http://home.earthlink.net/~whosyourdad/StovePrairie/StovePrarieCrash_9-3-2006.mpg (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ewhosyourdad/StovePrairie/StovePrarieCrash_9-3-2006.mpg)

I guess the camera didn't like the 2 or 3 tank slaps before I went down. This is all the footage I've got.

Anyone hear of fork seals causing a crash? I'm very curious.

crashin' sux[/quote


That sucks man, glad that you came out of it alright. I hope the bike is recoverable as well.


I gotta agree with Barn and Wahoo, 170+ on public roads is dumber than wheelies down I-25 in front of news cameras. :D That kind of speed is definitely best suited to the track.

Do we all speed on occasion? Hell yeah we do, but 170 is just fucking ridiculous. I don't know the circumstances of the other crash, but my first thought would be someone trying to keep up with the fast guys and getting in over their heads?

Keep it smart everyone, group rides should be fun, not dangerous. :up:

King Nothing
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:06 PM
*bites tounge*

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:07 PM
Do we all speed on occasion? Hell yeah we do, but 170 is just fucking ridiculous. I don't know the circumstances of the other crash, but my first thought would be someone trying to keep up with the fast guys and getting in over their heads?

Keep it smart everyone, group rides should be fun, not dangerous. :up:

Just a quick FYI... all crashes were at speeds less than 35 mph.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:07 PM
*bites tounge*
That's better than most of your other members can do. THanks.

~Barn~
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:37 PM
The King will only bite for so long. Savor the flavor.
:lol:

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:40 PM
Go ahead and post your riding intentions so I know what group not to ride with.


We did.




Glad to hear no one died today, but with all the recent posts from people hell bent on riding stupid fast on public roads, it's just a mater of time. :roll:


I'm glad to hear it too, but mine isn't said with sarcasm.




Two days on the tracks this weekend (60+ bikes) and there have been a handfull of lowsides, all without injury and the bikes rode away.

We also experienced a handful of lowsides. All bikes rode away as well. And only injury was to a rider not wearing proper gear. I'm sure an upstanding member such as yourself has NEVER ridden in jeans.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:41 PM
The King will only bite for so long. Savor the flavor.
:lol:
No biggie. I won't be around long enough to savor it anyway.

King Nothing
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:42 PM
*tounge starting to bleed*

Wahooman
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:42 PM
That's better than most of your other members can do. THanks.
Umm.....if you are a CSC member then "your other members" is part of your family too.....we are family and look out for each other.


I think I'll stick over at sportbikes.ws where the community is warm, welcoming, and forgiving

Sounds like a good idea if they approve of that..........I don't think anyone was not "welcoming" or forgiving....never said that. Glad everyone was okay and made it home. THANK GOD!
But really read the posts and most....(as you can read the replies) reacted the same.

See ya on the track:roll:

~Barn~
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:43 PM
I think I'll stick over at sportbikes.ws


No biggie. I won't be around long enough to savor it anyway.

Well quit callin' your shots and just shoot, man.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:45 PM
Umm.....if you are a CSC member then "your other members" is part of your family too.....we are family and look out for each other.



Sounds like a good idea if they approve of that..........I don't think anyone was not "welcoming" or forgiving....never said that. Glad everyone was okay and made it home. THANK GOD!
But really read the posts and most....(as you can read the replies) reacted the same.

See ya on the track:roll:

Roll your eyes some more. Maybe you've seen me at the track before. Once again, you think you're better than everone else because you ride track. Yeah, well so do I. Doesn't make me better than anyone.

As always, thanks for the sarcastic feedback.

Wahooman
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:46 PM
Well, here it is:

http://home.earthlink.net/~whosyourdad/StovePrairie/StovePrarieCrash_9-3-2006.mpg (http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ewhosyourdad/StovePrairie/StovePrarieCrash_9-3-2006.mpg)

I guess the camera didn't like the 2 or 3 tank slaps before I went down. This is all the footage I've got.

Anyone hear of fork seals causing a crash? I'm very curious.

crashin' sux
Video is great for trying to determine causes or issues or learning. From what I see......LOTS of front brake....the front dives down causing the front end to tuck. Don't think for seals have anything to do with that at all....but thats my opinion.
Just ask Kris what happens when you grab so much front brake and it tucks....she went down at Lajunta in her first race from the exact same thing. She learned and walked away luckily.
Now if your fork seals are leaking....get em fixed. Don't want them to be leaking out on ya:)

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:46 PM
Well quit callin' your shots and just shoot, man.

I'll stick around just long enough to plead my case. I know I'm not convincing anyone, but that's fine. I've seen you guys before, you bash anyone that doesn't have your same riding style.


Grow up and get some class.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:49 PM
Video is great for trying to determine causes or issues or learning. From what I see......LOTS of front brake....the front dives down causing the front end to tuck. Don't think for seals have anything to do with that at all....but thats my opinion.
Just ask Kris what happens when you grab so much front brake and it tucks....she went down at Lajunta in her first race from the exact same thing. She learned and walked away luckily.
Now if your fork seals are leaking....get em fixed. Don't want them to be leaking out on ya:)

I see the same thing you do. However, I'm skeptical. He had been braking that whole time... then possibly applied a little more pressure... I don't think he was braking hard enough for the front to lock up... I've braked harder.

I dunno... either way.. he crashed, and it sucks. :(

Wahooman
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:49 PM
Roll your eyes some more. Maybe you've seen me at the track before. Once again, you think you're better than everone else because you ride track. Yeah, well so do I. Doesn't make me better than anyone.

As always, thanks for the sarcastic feedback.

Didn't recall saying I was better than anyone out there......there are plenty of other riders on this forum that put me to shame, however I learn from them and they help me make good decisions. Hell I totalled my first bike on Deckers 2 years ago with Hoopty due to sand in the road....did I learn..yes. If it happened again could I probably keep the bike up...hell yes.
Oh and here ya go.........
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Sorry couldn't resist.
Case closed.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:52 PM
and I'm sure all that crashed today will learn from their mistakes.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:53 PM
By the way Bassil, His crash didn't cause another rider to go down. The other rider following a bit tool closely is what caused him to go down.

-=LiQuiD=-
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:58 PM
Video is great for trying to determine causes or issues or learning. From what I see......LOTS of front brake....the front dives down causing the front end to tuck. Don't think for seals have anything to do with that at all....but thats my opinion.
Just ask Kris what happens when you grab so much front brake and it tucks....she went down at Lajunta in her first race from the exact same thing. She learned and walked away luckily.
Now if your fork seals are leaking....get em fixed. Don't want them to be leaking out on ya:)

Yeah, I know the tucking feeling. Never went down on it tho. Only reason I ask is because my forks were fine before the wreck. I looked over my bike the night before riding. After the wreck my front forks felt like a po-go stick. Just curious if anyone has experienced something similar.

Bassil Duwaik
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 09:58 PM
By the way Bassil, His crash didn't cause another rider to go down. The other rider following a bit tool closely is what caused him to go down.

Yeah I'm kinda sketchy on the details being that I was watching the whole thing from my vibrating rear view. You’re probably right.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:06 PM
So eject me. I don't care.

Also, you're right. You weren't on the ride, so you DON'T know what happened.

I never proclaimed myself to be fast. I said the ride would be fast. Meaning, yes to a good pace, and yes to not a lot of stops. IN addition, I was hoping that that statement would defer many of the "inexperienced" riders.

We always made sure that the group was together. We always waited for people in the back. People were told to go at their own pace, and they were told where we would meet if they fell behind.

I don't know who said "I don't think you'll keep up" but it wasn't me.

Bassil Duwaik
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:15 PM
So eject me. I don't care.

Also, you're right. You weren't on the ride, so you DON'T know what happened.

I never proclaimed myself to be fast. I said the ride would be fast. Meaning, yes to a good pace, and yes to not a lot of stops. IN addition, I was hoping that that statement would defer many of the "inexperienced" riders.

We always made sure that the group was together. We always waited for people in the back. People were told to go at their own pace, and they were told where we would meet if they fell behind.

I don't know who said "I don't think you'll keep up" but it wasn't me.

I can attest to Painzers explicit instructions as to how the ride will take form. He went into detail as to what’s to be expected. Everything from cattle guards and fuel stops to maintaining a high archery as to who will lead and follow and everything in between.

Sadly the two wrecks one of which was beyond his or anyone else control and the second wreck was nothing more then bad judgment and or misjudging his trajectory among other factors. Moreover, both wrecks were indeed at some 35mph.

With that put aside we had a good ride. Ergo, once all said and done I’ll do it all over again with the exception of the accidents which were inevitable.

Clarkie
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:15 PM
this is the best thread ever! :lol:

rybo
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:21 PM
OK, a couple of opinions

I agree with some of the other voices here that the kind of speeds spoken of on this ride are really dangerous on the streets. I chose to start racing and trackdays because what I was doing on the streets was getting too dangerous and too scary.

Yes, I've crashed. Three times. 1 time on the street, twice on the track. Yes, I've tried to learn from each of those experiences and I hope that you take the lessons that were presented to you today seriously.

I believe that all error is human, which means there is a lesson to be learned from all of the incidents this weekend. The lowsides at the track, the crashes on the streets, everything.

As for the video of the crash, I do not think that is was the fork seals that caused the accident. It is possible that you blew the seals in the course of the accident or as a result of falling down. It is possible to blow them by bottoming the forks out, which is what I think happened to you. While you may have braked harder in the past, it isn't just how hard you are on the brakes that manage front wheel traction, but also how quickly you get into the brakes. Once you bottom the forks the front tire also has to handle "suspension" duties, possibly causing it to overload. Add to that a bit of adreneline, a quick attempt at a swerve and you have a good recipe for loosing grip at the front tire.

Glad everyone is OK

Scott

King Nothing
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:25 PM
Well quit callin' your shots and just shoot, man.

:spit:


I'll stick around just long enough to plead my case.

yeah, that always works real well here. Just ask 'ol Anty Boy.

Painzer
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:26 PM
RYBO, thanks for the post. That has class.

However, I'm done here. Everyone ride safe, keep the rubber side down! No hard feelings.

-=LiQuiD=-
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 10:29 PM
OK, a couple of opinions

I agree with some of the other voices here that the kind of speeds spoken of on this ride are really dangerous on the streets. I chose to start racing and trackdays because what I was doing on the streets was getting too dangerous and too scary.

Yes, I've crashed. Three times. 1 time on the street, twice on the track. Yes, I've tried to learn from each of those experiences and I hope that you take the lessons that were presented to you today seriously.

I believe that all error is human, which means there is a lesson to be learned from all of the incidents this weekend. The lowsides at the track, the crashes on the streets, everything.

As for the video of the crash, I do not think that is was the fork seals that caused the accident. It is possible that you blew the seals in the course of the accident or as a result of falling down. It is possible to blow them by bottoming the forks out, which is what I think happened to you. While you may have braked harder in the past, it isn't just how hard you are on the brakes that manage front wheel traction, but also how quickly you get into the brakes. Once you bottom the forks the front tire also has to handle "suspension" duties, possibly causing it to overload. Add to that a bit of adreneline, a quick attempt at a swerve and you have a good recipe for loosing grip at the front tire.

Glad everyone is OK

Scott

Thanks for your opinion. You too Wahooman and Painzer.

On the upside I got a girl's number today I've been wanting for a while now .

mtnairlover
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 11:00 PM
On the upside I got a girl's number today I've been wanting for a while now

Nice to know there are "happy endings".

Wahooman
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 11:26 PM
Thanks for your opinion. You too Wahooman and Painzer.

On the upside I got a girl's number today I've been wanting for a while now .
The bigger question is.....can she work on bikes:hump: Glad your day ended on a better note.

Wahooman
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 11:27 PM
this is the best thread ever! :lol:

Clarkie.....I just wanted to give ya something to read tonight!!:) Never got a chance to talk to you at Laguna Lajunta....see ya in Hastings!

jmillheiser
Sun Sep 3rd, 2006, 11:58 PM
I was on the ride today. There was a pre-ride discussion and Nick went into great deatail as to the potential hazards on stove prarie rd in addition to the standard ride your own ride speech. Warnings were given to watch for cattle and debris in the road.

After the 3rd rider went down Nick reiterated the "dont do stupid stuff" speech to the group that was there (the group had split at this point).

I cant attest to the speeds attained by the rest of the group but it was definately faster than I was going and well north of 100mph. I am pretty much the only person on the ride today that chose to stay under triple digit velocities for the most part.

You cant blame Nick for the 170mph speeds attained by some of the riders today, they are the ones that chose to ride that fast.

As for Tims crash, I dont have any details on it, it happened after I split off from the group.

Clarkie
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 12:20 AM
if you look at this thread from the outside it isnt about the 'what was right' or who screwed up' it is about choices.

if you have the ability to get out of bed, put on riding gear and find the keys to your bike you also have the ability to make decisions. If some of you thought the leaders were riding in a 'too spirited' fasion, you all had the ability to decide to check you ego and not ride at the pace presented (which from reading some did).

a dog runs out, a car turns in front of you, there is gravel on the road, these and hundreds of situations occur all the time and you have to make a decision. sometimes it is a bad decision or rather the wrong decision and some times it turns out to be a good decision.

do i condone the 170mph riding? who cares! everyone on that ride had the ability to decide if they wanted to twist the throttle all the way open or not. it is no ones right that wasnt on that ride to pipe in and say they should have done this or shouldnt have done that.

things went wrong for some of the riders and that sucks, but you have to remember that everyone had a choice and everyone made a decision wether it be following too close, over riding their tire/brakes/ability (or whatever caused one of the crashes) or even if the decision was 'holy crap this pace is too hot for me so i will just catch up later'

if you dont feel you have the ability to make simple decisions then you should probably be riding bitch and let someone else make the decisions for you :alien:

R1chie
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 12:40 AM
I guess I don't know why King Nothing is biting his tongue. The video shows everything. Grabs too much front brake, the front breaks loose and down he went. It is a common panic brake. I agree that they weren't going that fast so it appears the rider was not paying attention then grabbed a big handful. It also appears that he had several escape routes if he would have released the brake and tried to turn. I don't see a problem with the seals, I have bottomed a front fork on a breaking bump on a dirt bike, it did not do this.

So how do you prevent this? Don't follow so closely. Practice panic braking like this on a dirtbike so you can learn how to recover a front wheel sliding out due to lock up. I have done this on a street bike, exactly like it was done here many years ago (I locked the back brake too) but I released the brake and steered clear.

I would say in all the group rides I have been on, the most violated rule I see is following too close (Even at 35 mph). Sometimes people think I am riding slow because I am slow (and I am) but I do not risk rear ending another bike.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 01:16 AM
This is EXACTLY why there's very few people here I'd ride with. Oh, and Basil, Nick_Ninja would have no probems "keeping up with you". Trust me.

Those that want to go to another site, don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.....

Nick_Ninja
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 01:26 AM
All I will offer is why? It's bullshit ---- nothing more.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 01:51 AM
I'll stick around just long enough to plead my case. I know I'm not convincing anyone, but that's fine. I've seen you guys before, you bash anyone that doesn't have your same riding style.


Grow up and get some class.

What ever ------------------ I have been riding for over thirty years ----- probably longer than you have been a breathing being on this planet (notice that I don't use the operative term 'human being'). What ever. I was the guy at he coffee shop the previous Saturday when you shoed up on tour nasty RED duck------ there was a reason that the FOG bunch went he 'other way' that day. Your REALLY NEW RED leathers spoke VOLUMES of your experiense ---- or lack-there-of. Enough said ----- go to your 'other web site' and don't let he door slam you in the ass on the way out. SQUID :squid:

Bassil Duwaik
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 02:18 AM
if you look at this thread from the outside it isnt about the 'what was right' or who screwed up' it is about choices.

if you have the ability to get out of bed, put on riding gear and find the keys to your bike you also have the ability to make decisions. If some of you thought the leaders were riding in a 'too spirited' fasion, you all had the ability to decide to check you ego and not ride at the pace presented (which from reading some did).

a dog runs out, a car turns in front of you, there is gravel on the road, these and hundreds of situations occur all the time and you have to make a decision. sometimes it is a bad decision or rather the wrong decision and some times it turns out to be a good decision.

do i condone the 170mph riding? who cares! everyone on that ride had the ability to decide if they wanted to twist the throttle all the way open or not. it is no ones right that wasnt on that ride to pipe in and say they should have done this or shouldnt have done that.

things went wrong for some of the riders and that sucks, but you have to remember that everyone had a choice and everyone made a decision wether it be following too close, over riding their tire/brakes/ability (or whatever caused one of the crashes) or even if the decision was 'holy crap this pace is too hot for me so i will just catch up later'

if you dont feel you have the ability to make simple decisions then you should probably be riding bitch and let someone else make the decisions for you :alien:

I couldn't have said it better myself!!!! RIDE YOUR OWN DAMN BIKE

sfarson
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 02:26 AM
So how do you prevent this? Don't follow so closely. Practice panic braking like this on a dirtbike so you can learn how to recover a front wheel sliding out due to lock up. I have done this on a street bike, exactly like it was done here many years ago (I locked the back brake too) but I released the brake and steered clear.

I would say in all the group rides I have been on, the most violated rule I see is following too close (Even at 35 mph). Sometimes people think I am riding slow because I am slow (and I am) but I do not risk rear ending another bike.

Would concur.

Would add the other hesitation I have with the rides, is the "ride your own ride" advice only goes so far. The ride often doesn't end up as a group ride at all... especially when there is throttle blasting in the straights. Zzzzzzzzzzzz. As Nick Ienatsch noted... "Any monkey with a right hand can twist the throttle".

Better advice is ride "The Pace" by Ienatsch. It is well documented, publicized, and followed by many. Alone or in group rides. Essentially... spirited in the curves but sane in the straights. It allows riders to regroup in the straights, it keeps the pressure off those leading and following, it lessens law enforcement problems, it puts a focus how these hyper bikes can be ridden away from the track, where these hyper bikes are most fun and where skills are most important... and it isn't 120mph+ in the straights on public roads with traffic.

The link...
http://www.canyonchasers.net/reference/the_pace.php

Bueller
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 06:44 AM
do i condone the 170mph riding? who cares!

Clarkie, I would have to say everyone should care. This type of riding is observed by the public, and in many cases is relayed back to Johny Law via the wonder of the cell phone. The more negative exposure sportbikes get, the harder the cops are on all of us. Not to mention the nasty mess a "poor choice" at those speeds creates. Every cop I have talked to on the fast roads always say the same thing, they are tired of scraping, tagging and bagging.

Clarkie
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 07:53 AM
Clarkie, I would have to say everyone should care. This type of riding is observed by the public, and in many cases is relayed back to Johny Law via the wonder of the cell phone. The more negative exposure sportbikes get, the harder the cops are on all of us. Not to mention the nasty mess a "poor choice" at those speeds creates. Every cop I have talked to on the fast roads always say the same thing, they are tired of scraping, tagging and bagging.

my point is that you or i cannot control how hard someone else twists the throttle, we can control what 'we' do. if some guy wants to go that fast let him, it doesnt mean that everyone else has to follow along. is it illegal? sure, is it dangerous? sure, but it is every riders choice to go as fast or as slow as they chose, the law and fate will decide who stays on two wheels and who doesnt.

trying to change the public's perception of motorcycling is too little too late, the mass general public have already decided that all motorcyclists lane slip, pull wheelies, and crash in a straight line. the popularity of 'stunt'n' has already destroyed any good people think they can do and unless you are doing a toy run people will curse motorcyclists. it's an evolution, right now motorcyclists are scum (to a large number of people that dont get it) and given time that will change but not until people pull their heads in and ride in accordingly. what does more to damage the reputation of motorcyclists, doing 40 in a school zone, lane splitting illegally or doing 170 with no one around?

dont try and control what others do, control what you do, like i said if you dont have enough brain power to make your own choices in life you sure as shit shouldnt be on a motorcycle in the first place

towneh
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 07:56 AM
"The Pace" is timeless.... The method came into being in the mid 80's when the quick streetbikes were maxing just over 120mph. Today's sleds can put us near the 200mph mark which really cuts into the available space for recovery.
http://www.tsba.org/pace.html (brief summary)
There are a lot of good books on riding techniques.

It is all about the choices that we make. I've made some bad decisions that led to similar results. There isn't a day that goes by where I don't think about my "lessons learned". My bashed helmet sits besided my alarm clock.

It is great to be here.
haya henry

3/4gixxer
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 08:36 AM
This is EXACTLY why there's very few people here I'd ride with. Oh, and Basil, Nick_Ninja would have no probems "keeping up with you". Trust me.

Those that want to go to another site, don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.....

Then come back out and RIDE with us. Haven't seen you for a bit.

N_N, nicely stated about the previous ride of FOGs

Nick_Ninja
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 08:46 AM
I agree with Buller. This activity IS observed by the public. And it can be controlled ------ AVOID THE SQUID THAT RIDES LIKE THIS (and steal away his girlfriend :twisted:)

schnorbitz
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 08:54 AM
This seems to be way out of control.

Nobody was holding a gun to anyones head and telling them, "You gotta ride at 170mph!" I didn't feel too happy at sustained high speed, so guess what? I held back and didn't try to keep up with the front group. If somebody wants to go at the speed, that is their choice. It wasn't for me so I kept at a speed I was happy with.

As for the organization, I have to give Nick credit. He gave a good explanation of the route, pitfalls, hazards, etc, and waited at turns for the tail enders. This was my first group ride with the CSC (and hopefully not my last), having moved from England things are different over here. Somewhat nervous I had a quiet word with Nick before we set off, explained my circumstances and said I'd make my way at my own pace. No biggie as far as he was concerned. It was a good pace, lead well. It was a spirited ride, I knew that before leaving home, but it wasn't a "ride at mach 3 or you're on your own".

We all ride through choice. Sometimes the choices we make are good or bad but they are our own choices based on our own knowledge of what we want to or are capable of doing.

pilot
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 09:08 AM
Dear Site Administration:

I highly recommend that this entire post be removed. Strictly for liability reasons.

I'm not looking to pick a "freedom of speech" argument with anyone of any opinion. Nor will I reply to one.

Respectfully yours,
Pilot

King Nothing
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 09:12 AM
why, were you on the ride being an idiot and riding 170? Don't wanna get in trouble?

Clarkie
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 09:47 AM
This seems to be way out of control.

Nobody was holding a gun to anyones head and telling them, "You gotta ride at 170mph!" I didn't feel too happy at sustained high speed, so guess what? I held back and didn't try to keep up with the front group. If somebody wants to go at the speed, that is their choice. It wasn't for me so I kept at a speed I was happy with.

As for the organization, I have to give Nick credit. He gave a good explanation of the route, pitfalls, hazards, etc, and waited at turns for the tail enders. This was my first group ride with the CSC (and hopefully not my last), having moved from England things are different over here. Somewhat nervous I had a quiet word with Nick before we set off, explained my circumstances and said I'd make my way at my own pace. No biggie as far as he was concerned. It was a good pace, lead well. It was a spirited ride, I knew that before leaving home, but it wasn't a "ride at mach 3 or you're on your own".

We all ride through choice. Sometimes the choices we make are good or bad but they are our own choices based on our own knowledge of what we want to or are capable of doing.

this is exactly what I am talking about, do i condone 170mph riding on public roads? no

do i condone people that make choices that effect their own destiny? ye betcha :)

how many people would have the same opinion is the original post said 120mph rather than 170mph? both speeds are illegal, both speeds are dangerous to some people, the general public cant tell the difference between a motorcycle traveling at 120mph and 170mph

FZRguy
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 10:19 AM
Yeah, things will change all right. Sportbikes will be legislated out of existence b/c of irresponsible riding.

King Nothing
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 10:25 AM
Yeah, things will change all right. Sportbikes will be legislated out of existence b/c of irresponsible riding.
Word.

Bassil Duwaik
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 11:25 AM
Okay you guys can all go fly a kite. I didn't do 170mph. For one my gauge is broken because I changed the sprocket. For two I'm too much of a coward to even consider going that fast. So for all of you out there thinking that I had gone 170, I'm sorry for lying. May we move on now?

rforsythe
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Dear Site Administration:

I highly recommend that this entire post be removed. Strictly for liability reasons.

I'm not looking to pick a "freedom of speech" argument with anyone of any opinion. Nor will I reply to one.

Respectfully yours,
Pilot

What liability? That of the people who decided to do this then come on here laughing it up like this was something to be celebrated?

No, this thread is going to stay here. People need to read it. The CSC isn't liable for any of this, and it isn't like the cops are going to go arrest anyone.

As for the rest of this moronic diatribe, I'm going to have some coffee and breakfast, and ponder whether I should post what I typed up, as it really isn't nice. Til then, I'm putting this on lockdown. I don't think this is going anywhere productive.

Canuck
Mon Sep 4th, 2006, 11:59 AM
Damn, beat me to it Ralph. I was thinking that it was only the 'newbie' members that were taking offense to all of the rhetoric being thrown at them.