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View Full Version : The rear-brake is dangerous, and thereby useless.



d3spair
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 06:52 PM
Well at the end of my first full season on the streets, I've only had two serious incidents (and countless pucker moments). Neither of my serious incidents resulted in a wreck, but both involved my back brake locking up in a panic stop. The latter happened today, left lane was jammed up and some brilliant cager decided to pull his F350 into the right lane completely oblivious to my motorcycle which was doing 40ish. I did a full brake (and I have practiced these) but it seems whenever I freak out I clench the tank with my legs (pucker) and this results in my right foot pushing down way harder than I had intended. Result is I fish-tailed the rear out all the way 50 feetish to the traffic light which turned yellow as the F350 was passing through, and came to a complete stop luckily unharmed as I remembered not to let the rear brake back out once it was locked. From now on I'm not going to use the rear-brake at all anymore, it's way too easy to lock up and the stopping power it has seems minimal. My first incident was a near highside for this same exact reason and I actually flew out of my seat that time. Thoughts?
:?

Bueller
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 07:08 PM
You need more experience. The title of your post is an opinion not a fact. I use my rear brake all the time and can stop faster with both combined. I just know how to use it and don't lock it up, and if by chance I do, I know how to ride it out. It is a learned response.

pilot
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Adjust your rear brake lever so that it is at a lower angle and thus less likely to pushed down so easily and then keep practicing your "quick stop". Increase the speed by two mph each time you come to a quick stop. Apply firm/stong front brake pressure in ONE second so that the front has a chance to preload and you don't bottom out (tipping over too much also causes your rear to become very light and very useless).

There are several good books on this. Most are available at the Tattered Cover on Colfax. Twist of the Wrist I/II-Kieth Code, Total Control-Lee Parks, and Proficient Motorcycling - David Hough.

Ride safe

D-Man
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 07:14 PM
I would never call myself an expert rider but...I think it is a bad idea to quit using the rear brake all together. It is said that 70% of your braking power is with the front brake but you may need the other 30% in an emergency braking situation.
Also, using the rear brake helps keep the bike more evenly weighted from front wheel to rear. If you only hard brake on the front, an extreme amount of weight is distributed to the front and if you don't have good contact with dry pavement, you risk having the front skate out from under you.
I last reason I think you continue use with your rear brake... to scrub speed if you come too hot into a corner. It is much easier, while in a good lean, to knock down some speed with your rear than your front brake. At least it is for me.
I would suggest, just keep practicing and you will get the hang of it.
Hope I have helped some :) D-Man

SS929
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 07:19 PM
You forgot Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch.

dallas
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 07:43 PM
I only use my back brake!!! Front brakes are for pussies!!!

Seriously though, you should adjust your back brake so when you are in a panic situation, you don't jam on it full force.

pilot
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 07:49 PM
You forgot Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch.I'll have to pick that one up.

BHeth
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 07:54 PM
When you're cruising in the right lane, and traffic is all backed up in the left, you should expect some cager is going to jump out. You should be shocked if someone doesn't.

Expect the cage to turn left in front of you. Expect everything. Expect them to do the dumbest possible thing. Always have a way out.

Slow down. If you weren't riding so fast, you wouldn't have needed to panic, because you would have had ample time to react and brake. Watch the tires on all the cars ahead of you. The tires will signal their intentions.

On a modern sportbike the front brake provides over 90% of your braking power (courtesy Nick Ienatsch). There will be times you'll still need that other 10%.

Consider that motorcycling may not be for you. If you're having that many pucker moments something isn't right. There is nothing wrong with admitting this. The streets of a city are a brutal place to learn to ride.

Be safe and stay alive, Bro.

Lel
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 10:42 PM
The back brake is pretty useless :)

Ask any racer... 90% dont use the rear brake... and the 10% that do are so experienced, and so fast they could come around you sideways taking a nap and not think anything of it.

The big thing that is different on the track vs the street is that you are more vertical on your front brake and dont expect to be changing directions until you are ready to release that front brake. Though street and track are a diferent place... your stopping power DOES come from the front brakes... but also on the street the combination of both will slow you down the best... you are less likely to tuck the front hard on the brakes trying to swerve if you find a good mix of both.

If this is something you find yourself doing quite often... as someone said... slow down! haha becareful and dont get hurt. Try a track day, safe condtion... learn how much front brake you can squeeze (its a lot!!! more than you think) and get a feel for your bike! Important thing is to have fun no matter what your doing... but do it safely and in control

TurboGizzmo
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 11:22 PM
Well at the end of my first full season on the streets, I've only had two serious incidents (and countless pucker moments). Neither of my serious incidents resulted in a wreck, but both involved my back brake locking up in a panic stop. The latter happened today, left lane was jammed up and some brilliant cager decided to pull his F350 into the right lane completely oblivious to my motorcycle which was doing 40ish. I did a full brake (and I have practiced these) but it seems whenever I freak out I clench the tank with my legs (pucker) and this results in my right foot pushing down way harder than I had intended. Result is I fish-tailed the rear out all the way 50 feetish to the traffic light which turned yellow as the F350 was passing through, and came to a complete stop luckily unharmed as I remembered not to let the rear brake back out once it was locked. From now on I'm not going to use the rear-brake at all anymore, it's way too easy to lock up and the stopping power it has seems minimal. My first incident was a near highside for this same exact reason and I actually flew out of my seat that time. Thoughts?
:?

Sounds like your learning well ;) I mean youve locked it up and kept control...it just takes more practice. I have a close call at least once everytime i ride, everybody does. I am always watching and evaluating like BHeth said. In heavy traffic it can be unnerving (since i am still a n00bie) and whats funny is now i am starting to beable to predict what dumb moves people are going to do and then can plan my move according.

I have yet been able to lock up my rear tire, but did it all the time in class with there bike, but i have downshifted to hard trying to slow down and it got a little hairy in the rear.

Kendo
Wed Oct 4th, 2006, 11:29 PM
I'll have to pick that one up.


"Total Control" is another great read......

d3spair
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 12:00 AM
Thanks for those tips, I have wanted to check some of those books out anyways.

And per above, I was paying attention, fully expecting someone to yank out which is why I full braked immediately as he was pulling out or I would have had no chance.

I'll look and see if it's easily adjustable, I'm hopefully selling it soon for a newer model anyways though. Thanks again.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 07:21 AM
Cut off your right foot......problem solved.....

vmax2003
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 08:43 AM
:pointlaugh: true, but you would still have to buy both shoes, not just the left one....lol

CYCLE_MONKEY
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 08:47 AM
:pointlaugh: true, but you would still have to buy both shoes, not just the left one....lol

True. But.....you could always "trim" the left foot so that right shoes would fit also. In addition to solving the "dangerous" rear brake issue, you would, in one fell swoop, cut your shoe bill in half!

Sortarican
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 08:47 AM
... using the rear brake helps keep the bike more evenly weighted from front wheel to rear. If you only hard brake on the front, an extreme amount of weight is distributed to the front and if you don't have good contact with dry pavement, you risk having the front skate out from under you.
... to scrub speed if you come too hot into a corner. It is much easier, while in a good lean, to knock down some speed with your rear than your front brake. At least it is for me.

Great points D-Man. I don't consider myself a expert rider by any means but have been on two wheels for around 35 years and still have trouble balancing out the braking in a panic stop sometimes, especially if you ride several different bikes with differing characteristics.
The point about scrubbing power when coming in hot via rear brake is something I've used often. Few things short of a highside as disconcerting as bottoming out the front suspension halfway through a hard turn.
Just like the directions to get to Carnegie Hall.....Paractice, Practice, Practice.

AshliRider44
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 08:50 AM
The back brake is pretty useless :)

Ask any racer... 90% dont use the rear brake... and the 10% that do are so experienced, and so fast they could come around you sideways taking a nap and not think anything of it.

The big thing that is different on the track vs the street is that you are more vertical on your front brake and dont expect to be changing directions until you are ready to release that front brake. Though street and track are a diferent place... your stopping power DOES come from the front brakes... but also on the street the combination of both will slow you down the best... you are less likely to tuck the front hard on the brakes trying to swerve if you find a good mix of both.

If this is something you find yourself doing quite often... as someone said... slow down! haha becareful and dont get hurt. Try a track day, safe condtion... learn how much front brake you can squeeze (its a lot!!! more than you think) and get a feel for your bike! Important thing is to have fun no matter what your doing... but do it safely and in control

I agree with you to an extent. I used my rear brake more than the front on the street. Knowing how to dirtbike helps any rider as well, especially if you decide to race :) If you know how to control your bike you shouldn't have any problems. I stepped out the back wheel coming off the highway once when I hit some oil and I just rode it out; the back brake really isn't evil :turtle:

I`m Batman
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 09:03 AM
both front and rear brakes are for pussies!!! I don't use any brakes. :lol:

dallas
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 09:07 AM
I only use the back brake when I slide it in sideways to my parking spot at the bar.

Kendo
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I dont like using my brakes either.... A good pair of Crocs will do the job.... I saw someone riding with a pair of those.....:shocked:


I really hate those things......a friend of mine calls them Clown Shoes.... :lol:

AshliRider44
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 09:53 AM
both front and rear brakes are for pussies!!! I don't use any brakes. :lol:

:spit:

AshliRider44
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 09:53 AM
I only use the back brake when I slide it in sideways to my parking spot at the bar.

I seem to recall a certain someone doing that at Fox and Hound and taking a few bikes out :lol:

dallas
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 09:55 AM
I seem to recall a certain someone doing that at Fox and Hound and taking a few bikes out :lol:

I have an alibi, I know people who will vouch for me!!!

Sully
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 12:30 PM
I dont like using my brakes either.... A good pair of Crocs will do the job.... I saw someone riding with a pair of those.....:shocked:


I really hate those things......a friend of mine calls them Clown Shoes.... :lol:

They're really comfy regardless of how un-sexy they look... lol... You wouldn't catch me dead riding my bike in them tho... :no:....

Suki
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 12:44 PM
I like to fish tail, helps with my lean, so i slam on my back brakes all the time. :lol:

*GSXR~SNAIL*
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 12:56 PM
I like to fish tail, helps with my lean, so i slam on my back brakes all the time. :lol:

Friggin' Asian women drivers....no wonder. :D

:banghead:

mclarke
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 03:19 PM
shoulder lean?

Suki
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 03:22 PM
werd em up dog.

i'm gangsta.

Devaclis
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 03:22 PM
I use the rear brake 90% of the time I break. I lock it up every now and then while practicing my "riding skill of the day" to remember how to control it. It has saved me from my own stupid mistakes a number of times.

N1KSS1KS1x
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 03:27 PM
I would never call myself an expert rider but...I think it is a bad idea to quit using the rear brake all together. It is said that 70% of your braking power is with the front brake but you may need the other 30% in an emergency braking situation.
Also, using the rear brake helps keep the bike more evenly weighted from front wheel to rear. If you only hard brake on the front, an extreme amount of weight is distributed to the front and if you don't have good contact with dry pavement, you risk having the front skate out from under you.
I last reason I think you continue use with your rear brake... to scrub speed if you come too hot into a corner. It is much easier, while in a good lean, to knock down some speed with your rear than your front brake. At least it is for me.
I would suggest, just keep practicing and you will get the hang of it.
Hope I have helped some :) D-Man
^+1 and use just the front in gravel and you will be in trouble quick

konichd
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 03:30 PM
Just use the rears....pads are cheaper! :)

Dysco
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Thanks for those tips, I have wanted to check some of those books out anyways.

And per above, I was paying attention, fully expecting someone to yank out which is why I full braked immediately as he was pulling out or I would have had no chance.

I'll look and see if it's easily adjustable, I'm hopefully selling it soon for a newer model anyways though. Thanks again.

Not that I know what the exact situation was, but I'm suprised nobody mentioned not using the brakes at all and escaping with the throttle. At a certain point in my brief motorcycling career, I figured out that I have more control while accellerating than while panic braking. When something bad happens in front of me, my first instinct is to use the throttle and my backup plan is to brake once I've changed direction. Consider this option, but don't ignore the fact that if you choose wrong you can end up in the backseat of the car in front of you in a hurry.

If you've come to grips with the fact that you haven't become proficient in riding the bike you're on now, why are you considering a newer model?

Nick_Ninja
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 04:16 PM
When in doubt --- GIVE IT GAS!

Kendo
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Friggin' Asian women drivers....no wonder. :D

:banghead:


Suki is just trying to practice Drifting on a motorcycle.....

Bassil Duwaik
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 05:50 PM
Keep in mind that the more pressure you apply to your front brakes the lighter the rear gets hence the easier it is to lock up. I've come to notice this over time. True, 90% of your stopping ability is in the front brake; however in the event you try braking without using the front you’ll notice that instead of the miniscule 10% braking you have for the rear it will jump up to some 25%.

I can get the back brake down to screeching without locking to a science but every time I introduce the front break into the equation it varies on how light my rear gets. Moreover, you got to factor in your suspensión.

GL

rybo
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 06:27 PM
Bassil,

I've owned a couple of different ducati superbikes over the years and have never had one with a rear brake that was worth anything, much less able to easily lock the rear wheel. It's really amazing if yours is that good.

S

Dietrich_R1
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 06:31 PM
Rear brake is Great on a Sportbike....

1) At a stoplight on a Hill
2) Riding on the gravel road going to the "Bucksnort"!!!

Troma
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 07:39 PM
I got jacked up one time with my rear brake fiasco,,, not fun

R1chie
Thu Oct 5th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Rear brake is Great on a Sportbike....


1) At a stoplight on a Hill
2) Riding on the gravel road going to the "Bucksnort"!!!

Actually number 1 is more correct than you realize.

The amount of braking available from the rear brake is variable depending on traction and slope.

Take this test, head down a street that is going downhill. Try using the rear brake all by itself. You will have less braking power because as you brake the bike is being slowed thus unloads the rear suspension and gravity pulls you down the hill. This is magnified if you use the front brake because you are already nose down, rear tire up in stoppie mode.

Try the same test on a steep incline, gravity and slowing pulls the bike and the rear wheel into the inclined road compressing the suspension thus increasing the amount of pressure on the rear tire allowing you to brake harder with increased effect.

This works on the front tire as well, using both brakes you can stop much faster up an incline and even skid both wheels easily on a down hill. You can apply the front brake even harder with less worry of the back end lifting off the ground or the front tire skidding.

Bassil Duwaik
Fri Oct 6th, 2006, 06:18 PM
Bassil,

I've owned a couple of different ducati superbikes over the years and have never had one with a rear brake that was worth anything, much less able to easily lock the rear wheel. It's really amazing if yours is that good.

S

yeah mine locks up easy compared to some other bikes I've ridden. I think that the reason many ducs got light rear brakes is because of the way it's bled. In order to bleed the brakes you must take the caliper off of the rotor and flip it upside down (air goes up).

Doing so will thoroughly get the air out of the system. Don't understand why they would put the bleeder value inverted.

Canuck
Fri Oct 6th, 2006, 10:18 PM
I don't think that is it. The rear master cylinder on the Ducati's is not sensitive to pressure. In otherwords, the stock Brembo rear master is not able to push a higher psi than other (higher end), Brembo models. My '06 has a very soft feel to the rear since new. If there was an air bubble(s) in the line, then I would say that there would be allot of rear break lockage issues with them, when the line heat's up. Or at the very least, be more sensitive in the heat :dunno:

Feathered upstart!
Fri Oct 6th, 2006, 10:23 PM
Most Ducati(as well as other italian bikes that shall remain nameless)have the rear brake issue due to how close the master is to the pipe... what with the undertail and all.

Relocate and your good

Canuck
Fri Oct 6th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Those Fucking I-teye's!

Feathered upstart!
Fri Oct 6th, 2006, 10:26 PM
Lets give them a fucking good kicking!!!

Nick_Ninja
Fri Oct 6th, 2006, 10:27 PM
All that need be done (with nameless pasta rockets) = Castrol SRF route , wet boiling point 500 degrees.

Mac020
Sat Oct 7th, 2006, 08:39 AM
Most Ducati(as well as other italian bikes that shall remain nameless)have the rear brake issue due to how close the master is to the pipe... what with the undertail and all.

Relocate and your good


and... The disk is only about 8" in diameter.

pilot
Sat Oct 7th, 2006, 04:52 PM
Rear brake is Great on a Sportbike....

1) At a stoplight on a Hill
2) Riding on the gravel road going to the "Bucksnort"!!!That's funny.

No-coast-punk
Sat Oct 7th, 2006, 10:24 PM
In terms of the basic physics of it all. 100% front brake usage that picks up the rear tire about 2" off the deck is the fastest way to stop in a straight line.

However, the more front brake that gets used, the less steering response and chassis stability the bike will have.

More rear brake = greater control but longer stopping distances
More front brake = shorter stopping distance at the loss of control

Most people never master proper rear brake control in their entire lives. They finally admit to this fact and buy something with a linked braking system.

Bassil Duwaik
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 01:34 AM
I agree with No-coast. There are many variables to consider and apply when riding. That is why I like to do as much work on my bike as I can. Even if I'm not the one who's going to be doing the work on it I'll read about it in the manual just to ensure I know the in's-&-outs on it all e.i. suspension, HH pads, damper and everything in between, so that when it comes time to make a split second critical decision I've already integrated the bike's performances to second nature decision(s) I'd make. Of course nothing comes without practice.

On yeah on a side note, has anyone tried riding one of those bike with antilock brakes. I rode a BMW with one and those things make the bike feel "weird". I tried locking up the brake several times on it but all to no avail.

Mista Black
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 02:54 AM
:wtf: both front and back break as close to impending lockup as possible will stop you fastest.

Dysco
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 03:17 AM
:wtf: both front and back break as close to impending lockup as possible will stop you fastest.

Wrong!












A heavy, stationary object will stop you the fastest! :D

Bueller
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 06:46 AM
like a guardrail ;)

Mista Black
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 09:30 AM
Have I ever told you about that one time on Monarch Pass....?? :D

Mel
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 03:05 PM
soo.....I am going to add my experience of useless bike stuff to this thread.
I got in like a couple months of experience this summer (like maybe 2K miles), and during that time, I have felt the rear of my bike slide numerous times when decelerating. After thinking about the situations a little more, I realized that all were while slowing and downshifting.
I have therefore concluded that since downshifting can cause the rear to slide, it is dangerous and therefore useless as well.

Bassil Duwaik
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 05:18 PM
soo.....I am going to add my experience of useless bike stuff to this thread.
I got in like a couple months of experience this summer (like maybe 2K miles), and during that time, I have felt the rear of my bike slide numerous times when decelerating. After thinking about the situations a little more, I realized that all were while slowing and downshifting.
I have therefore concluded that since downshifting can cause the rear to slide, it is dangerous and therefore useless as well.

Downshifting isn't what I suppose could be called a uniform stopping pattern. As the rpms drop so too does the braking power. Downshifting woudl work well with lower speeds. But when your going 100 and want to drop down fast I drop the bike in the gear I think I'll want coming out of the turn all the while holding the clutch in and using the brakes.

Now being able to match your rpms by downshifting and taking up the slack with your rear brake as the rpms drop is what I would consider a very experienced rider.

Mista Black
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 10:50 PM
well since you should be accelerating through the curve, i'd have to say holding your clutch in as you say here is bad. i usually have the rear brake on most of the way through a curve (even a very high speed one). on the bemmer at least it seems to keep the back end of the bike calm. and i rarely feel the back in slide when down shifting at high speed, so i guess i'm a very experienced rider... thanks.

dallas
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 11:17 PM
So, what I am getting out of this thread is my rear brake is useless and downshifting is useless.

By listening to the advice of the group, I should just accelerate as fast as I can and use heavy stationary objects to stop myself.

I don't know how I survived this long on two wheels with out you guys!!

Thanks!!!

~Barn~
Sun Oct 8th, 2006, 11:55 PM
I'm with Dallas.

:lol:

Bassil Duwaik
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 01:11 AM
lol

Dysco
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 01:54 AM
Downshifting isn't what I suppose could be called a uniform stopping pattern. As the rpms drop so too does the braking power. Downshifting woudl work well with lower speeds. But when your going 100 and want to drop down fast I drop the bike in the gear I think I'll want coming out of the turn all the while holding the clutch in and using the brakes.

Now being able to match your rpms by downshifting and taking up the slack with your rear brake as the rpms drop is what I would consider a very experienced rider.

Whatever happened to matching RPMs with the throttle?

Going fast>brakes>clutch>downshift>release rear brake (or don't)>yank the throttle>release clutch>release front brake (or both)>going slower

or motard style:

Going fast>brakes>clutch>stomp down the gears>feather throttle>release/dump clutch>yank on the front brake>feather rear brake (opt)>lean>slide>think about direction>wonder why you haven't before>bring tires into line>release brake(s)>yank the throttle>go again

Dysco
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 01:57 AM
So, what I am getting out of this thread is my rear brake is useless and downshifting is useless.

By listening to the advice of the group, I should just accelerate as fast as I can and use heavy stationary objects to stop myself.

I don't know how I survived this long on two wheels with out you guys!!

Thanks!!!

No problem. That method totally works in every motorcycle game I've ever played. :D

R1chie
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 07:00 AM
So, what I am getting out of this thread is my rear brake is useless and downshifting is useless.

By listening to the advice of the group, I should just accelerate as fast as I can and use heavy stationary objects to stop myself.

I don't know how I survived this long on two wheels with out you guys!!

Thanks!!!

Personally, I don't like using the heavy stationary objects, I like the heavy portable ones. When I get going fast, to slow down I throw out a boat anchor, that way I don't have to use engine braking, front or the rear brake.:)

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 07:10 AM
Personally, I don't like using the heavy stationary objects, I like the heavy portable ones. When I get going fast, to slow down I throw out a boat anchor, that way I don't have to use engine braking, front or the rear brake.:)

Your R1 IS a boat anchor......:lol:

Canuck
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 07:40 AM
Whatever happened to matching RPMs with the throttle?

Going fast>brakes>clutch>downshift>release rear brake (or don't)>yank the throttle>release clutch>1release front brake (or both)>going slower

:imwithstupid: If you don't do this,(the rear brake aspect is debatable) one is asking for trouble,and it would be only a matter of time before you go wide and/or lowside.

Learn the simple art of Trail-braking :up:

RAGrote
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 08:02 AM
After thinking about the situations a little more, I realized that all were while slowing and downshifting.
I have therefore concluded that since downshifting can cause the rear to slide, it is dangerous and therefore useless as well.

Finally the sarcastic wit that this thread deserves.

To the original poster...
Your conclusions are erroneous.
Learn to use the rear brake and it'll save your hide.

BHeth
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 08:37 AM
Whatever happened to matching RPMs with the throttle?

Seriously, isn't this common practice? At least for the canyon carvers out here? Like heel-toe downshifting in a car?

Holding the clutch through a corner? That's a joke, right? No one honestly does this, do they???:crazy:

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 08:44 AM
Downshifting isn't what I suppose could be called a uniform stopping pattern. As the rpms drop so too does the braking power. Downshifting woudl work well with lower speeds. But when your going 100 and want to drop down fast I drop the bike in the gear I think I'll want coming out of the turn all the while holding the clutch in and using the brakes.

<snip>

God --- I can't believe that you said this.

R1chie
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 10:10 AM
Your R1 IS a boat anchor......:lol:

LOL... I suppose I deserve that for all the ugly Suzuki comments I have been throwing out lately.

*GSXR~SNAIL*
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 10:15 AM
So, what I am getting out of this thread is my rear brake is useless and downshifting is useless.

By listening to the advice of the group, I should just accelerate as fast as I can and use heavy stationary objects to stop myself.

I don't know how I survived this long on two wheels with out you guys!!

Thanks!!!

Well, duh!

BHeth
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 10:17 AM
Cycle Monkeys signature is killing me! I can't see the white letters too well so it looks like:

I TAN by heritage.

A MAN by choice.

Sorry, please continue.

pilot
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 10:41 AM
well since you should be accelerating through the curve, i'd have to say holding your clutch in as you say here is bad. i usually have the rear brake on most of the way through a curve (even a very high speed one). on the bemmer at least it seems to keep the back end of the bike calm. and i rarely feel the back in slide when down shifting at high speed, so i guess i'm a very experienced rider... thanks.

OK, now the clutch is bad and therefore useless. Soon we shall find that the whole motorcycle is useless.

Suki
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 10:43 AM
:idea: Hot Wheels now has better traction and cup holders.

Nick_Ninja
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 10:47 AM
Compression braking ------ it doesn't work too well with the clutch activated.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 11:08 AM
LOL... I suppose I deserve that for all the ugly Suzuki comments I have been throwing out lately.

R1CH is useless, and therefore dangerous......:lol:

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 11:10 AM
I use my rear brake a LOT. It helps to take the driveline lash out during slow corners or tight u-turns to use the brake and torque the motor against it. I also use my home-made slipper clutch: just pull the clutch lever partway in while downshifting. Simple, effective. Even read an article to that effect.

CYCLE_MONKEY
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 11:11 AM
Cycle Monkeys signature is killing me! I can't see the white letters too well so it looks like:

I TAN by heritage.

A MAN by choice.

Sorry, please continue.

What white letters?!?!:siesta:

Mel
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 12:30 PM
OK, now the clutch is bad and therefore useless. Soon we shall find that the whole motorcycle is useless.

OMG! I can't believe I didn't think of this before! However, I will disagreeon one point: the bikes are built to tolerate far more than the average rider can ever give. I therefore revise my previous conclusion, and sub this:
Since the rider can't handle a slide, or handle the bike to avoid the slide, I find that the rider is dangerous and thereby useless.



Finally the sarcastic wit that this thread deserves.
:lol: well at least you saw that...but hey since that went over some peoples heads, I got a lesson on how I am supposed to be taking my turns (apparently at high speed and with the cluch in :lol:). I am so glad I have people who can tell me how to turn.

Bassil Duwaik
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 12:32 PM
true

No-coast-punk
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 12:48 PM
I find that the rider is dangerous and thereby useless.


Yep, I think we finally nailed the problem on the head.

In the IT world this is called a PEBKAC.

Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair

In the mechanics world this is simply known as a defective nut behind the wheel.

Insurance agents might call this a negative cash flow acquisition.

A riding instructor might call this A FREAKING BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY.

It always scares the bejezus out of me how many riders go for a very very long time with no real knowledge how a bike really works.

Mel
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 12:50 PM
In the mechanics world this is simply known as a defective nut behind the wheel.

No, that is a bad driver module. :slap:

Bassil Duwaik
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 01:00 PM
you sure it's not a relay?

No-coast-punk
Mon Oct 9th, 2006, 01:26 PM
No, that is a bad driver module. :slap:
Ha! I used to work for Mercedes Benz. Some of the cars can have upwards of 90 separate computers in them. They all have a fricking acronym too. EIS, DCM, ESA, SAM, OCP, etc. We would bad mouth idiot customers right in front of their faces by discussing the B-SAW (Between-seat and wheel) module.

"yeah Mike, it was simply a communication error between the B-SAW module and the DCM"

*translation* Idiot customer couldn't get the window to roll down because they had window lock on.

Dysco
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 12:43 AM
This is my favorite CSC thread ever. Reminds me of a question my MSF instructor had for me when doing some tight-turning drills: "How are you using all of the controls at the same time?"

Mista Black
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 08:38 AM
Well since downshifting is dangerous, I would propose that upshifting would be counter production. Since your sport bikes can't take off in 6th gear you should just leave it in first all the time and then you will never have to worry about downshifting. My beemer can take off in 6th so I can go fast all the time :)

R1chie
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 08:45 AM
R1CH is useless, and therefore dangerous......:lol:

I am dangerous.... I kind like that :)

Mista Black
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 08:53 AM
:spit:

~Barn~
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 09:09 AM
That's Right Ice!.. Man..
I am dangerous.

dallas
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 09:10 AM
I am dangerous.... I kind like that :)

Dangerous like a Teddy Bear!!!

But then, I not one to talk!!

Kendo
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Downshifting isn't what I suppose could be called a uniform stopping pattern. As the rpms drop so too does the braking power. Downshifting woudl work well with lower speeds. But when your going 100 and want to drop down fast I drop the bike in the gear I think I'll want coming out of the turn all the while holding the clutch in and using the brakes.

Now being able to match your rpms by downshifting and taking up the slack with your rear brake as the rpms drop is what I would consider a very experienced rider.


HUH? I thought when you pull in the clutch it cuts the power to the wheel.....why would you cut the power to the wheel while in a turn..... :no:

or am I wrong here? I'm with Beotch... I sometimes downshift to slow down..but then again I also keep an eye on what gear I am in and where my RPM's are at... I never downshift if I know the gear down is way to low....


I sometimes use the back brake in a turn to calm the bike down a bit.....so far it has worked well.... I think I read this in the "Total Control" Book......

Bassil Duwaik
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 09:55 AM
I cut the power to the rear wheel at the beginning of the turn and watch my line till I can gauge the turn. After which (midway) I'll match the rpms and engage the desired gear and power out of the turn.

Mista Black
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 10:09 AM
that's the slower and more dangerous way to do it... doing it that way is therefore useless

Nick_Ninja
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 10:11 AM
I cut the power to the rear wheel at the beginning of the turn and watch my line till I can gauge the turn. After which (midway) I'll match the rpms and engage the desired gear and power out of the turn.

And while you are cutting the power to the rear wheel and basically 'free-wheeling', you are out of control. You need to take an MRA rider school to correct your evil ways.

Mista Black
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 10:31 AM
i've already told him it's useless so it's all good now

Canuck
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 10:34 AM
And while you are cutting the power to the rear wheel and basically 'free-wheeling', you are out of control. You need to take an MRA rider school to correct your evil ways.

:applause: well said birthday boy.

I`m Batman
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 11:39 AM
WOW... looks like there're too many cooks in the kitchen... :lol:

Bassil Duwaik
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 11:45 AM
lol

RAGrote
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 12:21 PM
I cut the power to the rear wheel at the beginning of the turn and watch my line till I can gauge the turn. After which (midway) I'll match the rpms and engage the desired gear and power out of the turn.

"Finally had my 'one' accident"

Is how the post will read.....

Mel
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 02:05 PM
n
HUH? I thought when you pull in the clutch it cuts the power to the wheel.....why would you cut the power to the wheel while in a turn..... :no:

or am I wrong here? I'm with Beotch... I sometimes downshift to slow down..but then again I also keep an eye on what gear I am in and where my RPM's are at... I never downshift if I know the gear down is way to low....


I sometimes use the back brake in a turn to calm the bike down a bit.....so far it has worked well.... I think I read this in the "Total Control" Book......

For some reason, a lot of inexperienced riders have a panic reaction/fear to turns and think cutting all power will somehow slow them down faster (though this is way wrong). Downshifting properly, smoothly, and matching rpms will make for very cleans turns, lean angle and acceleration because you are not fighting the torque of the bike. I have been working on breaking my husband of this tendenacy (he has about 1-2 months of experience now).

For reference Bassil, there are several reasons I was breaking the rear end loose on downshifts: 1) it was cold as hell and slightly wet out, and 2) (the main reason) I was out for a spin on the 600 and was messing around with it (the bike now feels like a toy to ride compared to the beast). Though the 6 has like 1/3 the torque of my TLR, if you wrap it up in rpms, you slide into corners and trail braking while sliding can be fun when you know what you are doing.

Kendo
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 02:21 PM
:imwithstupid: Totally agree with ya.

...... I have been working on trying to get my turns smoother, I come into the turn well but cant get the timing of applying the throttle at the right time on exit...sometimes I get it right and sometimes its choppy....Miyagi-san says mo practice Daniel-san.

Mista Black
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 05:34 PM
I agree with Mel... sliding through a curve is FUN!! :D

Bueller
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 06:27 PM
I agree with Mel... sliding through a curve is FUN!! :D
Indeed!

macktastic brake grabber
Tue Oct 10th, 2006, 11:56 PM
soo.....I am going to add my experience of useless bike stuff to this thread.
I got in like a couple months of experience this summer (like maybe 2K miles), and during that time, I have felt the rear of my bike slide numerous times when decelerating. After thinking about the situations a little more, I realized that all were while slowing and downshifting.
I have therefore concluded that since downshifting can cause the rear to slide, it is dangerous and therefore useless as well.

when the back tire is breaking loose a little too often it is wise to check the rear tire pressure ... if this is correct you might want to let a little out to adjust for your weight... if this does not help the way your bike handles then dont get on the back brake so heavy. if this does not help , dont get on the front brake so heavy, if this all fails just stand on the back brake as hard as you can and low side your bike into something really hard , and you WILL stop very well
btw the tires i have seen on the back of the bikes in this club , it does not surprise me that the back brake does not work
mack:hump:

Mista Black
Wed Oct 11th, 2006, 12:51 AM
actually i think she meant she enjoys sliding. there's a reason i run my tires at 40/42 (f/r) :D

cogsxr
Sun Jul 8th, 2007, 08:11 PM
Lots of good replys. Just find a paking lot, start locking it up and adjust the rbrakes to where you like it. You need your front and back brakes. I use the back more then I should (get too hot and wears down since it so small). It keeps passangers off your back, and helps with other stunts. You just have to get use to using it.

James
Sun Dec 2nd, 2007, 05:42 PM
Even though it's not possible to ALWAYS do this, but you might want to leave even more space between you and the vehicle in front of you. Of coarse, we all know that you can stop quicker by applying both front (about 70%) and the rear (30%) at the same time. If you are skidding the back tire, use less rear and more front. But if you get in the habbit of never using your rear brake, and only the front, then you will flip your bike, just as a friend of mine did. She was following too close, and was only using her front brake. A fire truck had to stop I-25 while they cleaned up the wreck.