Open Discussion: IMI, safety and the CSC

[silkboxr]

I believe it's like most things in this world a lack of common sense that gets people into trouble. I seriously doubt IMI is going to help enforce any kind of rules even though it may be for the greater good. We all need to our best to keep everyone safe. From taping your mirrors to holding your line. The old addage look where you want to be/go is true....in more than one way. If you focus your attention on the faster rider passing you there's a great chance you'll run right into his line because that's where your focus point is.

Track riding is safer than street riding even at IMI, but people will always go down eventually I don't care how good you are it's just a matter of when not if you will go down.

Best thing you can do is get the best safety gear you can and wear it. i.e. helmet, leathers, boots and gloves. In addition ride within your limits...
If you want to go faster ask someone to show you some lines and give you some advice........I'm sure they'd be happy to. Motorcylist are usually very open to helping other out.

Just my two cents worth in this little discussion.

Joe

[Bassil Duwaik]

Well for someone who has been around a few tracks more then a few miles this is what I thought of my first time at IMI on Sunday.

1. It's a very nice GO KART track.

2. It's a nice motard track.

3. It's an OK track for a beggineer on a sportbike to learn on.

4. It's NOT for sportbikes who think they can go fast.

5. It's NOT for bikes over 600cc.

6. Last but not least it's NOT a place to try and go fast unless you fall into the first 2 catagories.

you got that right

[rforsythe]

The price of a cheap track day may be your life. I don't really care about the 35 dollars, in fact I had rather pay 235 dollars. If you pay more for the track day you are probably going to get rules, instruction, safety, and peace of mind. I know things can happen in this atmosphere as well. I just like the odds a lot better.

Bingo! Which is why I didn't ride La Junta except for one race even before Gene, and didn't go back. It's cheap, but it's a shithole, and my desire for self preservation is bigger than my balls I guess. I don't mind the relative low cost of Pueblo compared to a professional track day just because it's a known entity and a big place to get away from idiots, but there is definitely something to be said for the more expensive days where structure, oversight, and instruction is just part of the deal.

I'd probably go ride IMI again too (like when I get a moto-ish bike one of these days) but have to accept the conditions as they are.

FWIW I am totally in agreement of a "track code of conduct", I think it's long overdue. I think this should be something printed up, available online (I will provide web space for it here even) that tracks hand out for free to anyone that wants it, that is designed to eventually become a universally-accepted method of staying as safe as possible. I have some ideas about this I will post up when I haven't been awake for nearly two days.

[krod]

Its a Kart track and works great for supermoto bikes as well. Sportbikes are way to big to be out there but with no other place to go..... Ya don't see me out at PMI on my KTM and there is a reason for that.

[Clarkie]

I'm taking my Superbike out there, I need to test the traction control system and cant think of a better place to do it

[rybo]

I'm taking my Superbike out there, I need to test the traction control system and cant think of a better place to do it

Clarkie...are you having troubles with your right wrist?? You aren't injured, are you?

[Clarkie]

the wrist is fine (tons of practice over winter ), trying to get 200hp to hook up is the only problem i have

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

the wrist is fine (tons of practice over winter ), trying to get 200hp to hook up is the only problem i have

We should all have such problems......

[rybo]

We should all have such problems......

Frank, just give your bike and some money to Clarkie...you too can have this problem.

[konichd]

Frank, your thinking is about as antique as that Gixxer you ride.

But you do bring up some good points. One of which is exactly how far we "volunteer" to go above the minimum safety standards. I will gladly tape up for bike for you, free of charge.

I'm in agreement with RYBO 100%. New riders, first track day, lets keep the potential mishapes down to a minimum.

[rybo]

My point is this...

The MINIMUM safety standards currently required by IMI are inadequate for the current situation out there. My belief is that we have 2 options.

1. Continue to abide by the current set of rules, wait for something really bad to happen (I promise, if we continue on this path it will) and either face "regulation" by IMI (unlikely) or have sportbikes banned from using IMI (likely).

2. STEP UP- become responsible for policing our own safety, set a positive example for other riders or groups that use the facility and essentially partner with IMI to assure our continued ability to use their facility. It means little or no additional work for the staff at IMI except to support our initiative. It means very little additional work for us, it takes all of 10 minutes to completely tape up a bike and assess what group you should be riding with, and it decreases the instances or sevarity of accidents that will happen out there.


One report I heard from last week has several riders crashing and then getting back on the track. Did anyone really inspect the bikes and make sure they were safe? Did anyone check out the riders, make sure they were REALLY OK?

How about a 1 crash or 2 crash rule? NESBA and other trackday orgs have this kind of thing...you crash, you're done.

[konichd]

I say we take the pro-active approach and look at other organizations rules and see what ones are applicable to IMI. Combine NESBA, R2SL, and PMP rules to come up with a much better and safer track day experience?

Post up what rules we think should be implemented and put together a "rider's packet" strickly geared towards IMI?

The "run what you Brung" days are over. Like RYBO said you can make vast saftey improvements with little effort. Painter's tape is cheap and a roll will last plenty of track days.

[Slo]

I'm picking up a couple rolls of painters tape today so if anyone needs it and is too lazy, I will have it at IMI. I will probably tape up the mirrors, headlights, tail lights......blinkers.

[CYCLE_MONKEY]

I'm picking up a couple rolls of painters tape today so if anyone needs it and is too lazy, I will have it at IMI. I will probably tape up the mirrors, headlights, tail lights......blinkers.

Remember, if you're going to tape your headlights, pull your headlight fuses so you don't melt the tape to your headlights......

[Sortarican]

If IMI dosn't want to hassle with implimenting and/or enforcing any guidlines they should at least be agreeable to making them available if we provided them with a couple hundred copies.

I can probably misappropriate some printing services from work and contribute a few copies.

[~Barn~]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. If they (the staff) starts handing them out or making them available or whatever, then I would think that implies that they are "their" rules. (if perhaps not a logical implication, then at least a legal one). I wouldn't hold my breath about them engaging in any of this cause, anytime soon; they have their waiver.

I think your most effective bet would be continued positive peer pressure. Self moderation and availability from the experienced amongst you, and most importantly, willingness from all parties wishing to improve things, to approach riders who are bordering that line of being a hazard.

It's going to be a tough road to hoe, but it's good to see it on everybody's minds.

[rybo]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. If they (the staff) starts handing them out or making them available or whatever, then I would think that implies that they are "their" rules.

Maybe not so much a printed set of "rules" as a "guide to a safe and fun track day" Could be handed out at ANY track event, very general guidelines on how to best prepare for and participate in a track day that is safe and fun for all.

If IMI dosn't want to hassle with implimenting and/or enforcing any guidlines they should at least be agreeable to making them available if we provided them with a couple hundred copies.

I can probably misappropriate some printing services from work and contribute a few copies.

Awesome. I'm going to start working on putting together a document based on our coversation here and other trackday orgs that I'm aware of. When it's done I'll post it up for all to see. After that I'll approach IMI management and see where they stand on tightening the rules for bikes on the course a little bit in the interest of safety and fun for all.

[konichd]

Here are the NESBA guidlines.

[~Barn~]

Maybe not so much a printed set of "rules" as a "guide to a safe and fun track day"

I hear ya Scott. Hopefully they would agree to something like that. I'm totally with you that a "Here are some good ideas" document would be a benefit. Definitely the more general the better, and written in a, it is recommended that you... fashion.

I think anything hinting of rules or enforceable guidlines, might have IMI shying away with a quickness.

[Sortarican]

Maybe not so much a printed set of "rules" as a "guide to a safe and fun track day" Could be handed out at ANY track event, very general guidelines on how to best prepare for and participate in a track day that is safe and fun for all.

That's what I was thinking too.

Barn's point is valid, but if the doc is worded correctly, and doesn't reference IMI specifically, hopefully they won't have a problem with it.
(Though they may dismiss the idea out of hand rather than risk any statutory liability...haha, half a year of pre-law....or was it pre-med?...same difference.)

Don't know if there's any exposure if the CSC is referenced in it, but might want to avoid it for the same reasons.

[~Barn~]

Signed,

David Konechne

[konichd]

[Sortarican]

Signed,

David Konechne

Did I just get burned?

[dapper]

Here's a thought for the guidelines...


Upon information and belief, at all times relevant to operation of the motorized vehicle on the individually chosen track.

(Fill-in the blank)

Unrestricted licensed operators have the duty to exercise reasonable care in the operation of the motorized vehicle.

If an avoidable moment occurs to breach his/her above-mentioned duty of care by operating the motorized vehicle in a negligent and careless manner without regard to all attendant circumstances.

This breach of the above-mentioned duty directly and proximately caused of the incident which may or may not result in the altercation to the medical office including, but not limited to the removal of your head from your rectum.

For the convince of the recklessness, upon discharge from the doctor's care. You shall be show the courtesy of a taxi toward the nearest Ultimate Fighting Championship ring. Which Barn shall bring his 8.3 ounce can of whoop ass and give you the personalized trophy winning experience of how stupid hurts.