If you could improve motorcycle safety...

[DevilsTonic]

That's great news! Glad to hear that you've got some things hashed out. I can't wait to see the notes and hear your impressions from the conference!

[pilot]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd post up a project update. Ralph, Donna and I met last night and hashed out some ideas (basically Ralph and I going off on wild tangents and Donna pulling us back towards reality). Anyways, we came up with a solid outline that incorporates most of the ideas expressed in this thread. Thank you for your input and help. This is by no means done yet, so if you have input PLEASE post up with it. There is still time for good ideas and we want to represent the club in the best way possible.

Pilot, to answer your question, the event is not open to the public and no recording will be allowed. However, there is going to be a "court reporter" there taking notes that will be distributed to all participants and there will be a copy of all of the powerpoint presentations distributed. Ralph and I will post up a summary after the event for your reading pleasure.

Once again....any more input?

S

Scott,
Thanks for the update. Good luck with the presentation.

[Spiderman]

I've been so busy with my new job that I haven't been online much lately, so hopefully "better late than never" can apply here too.

First of all, I wanted to thank Ralph for being able to take this and run with it, and Scott for being able to assist!

Many good ideas have already been expressed in this thread. Here are a few of my thoughts:

1. Rider Training -- Ride like you're INVISIBLE, not like you're INVINCIBLE.
2. More Rider Training -- IMHO, most, if not all accidents involving a motorcycle could have been avoided by the motorcyclist... whether it be: respecting the speed limit (or flow of traffic); reducing speed to accomodate for conditions (road/weather/traction); paying closer attention to the vehicles around you; not doing stupid things like drinking and riding, or; resisting the urge to ride beyond your abilities (peer pressure). Basic skills of how to operate a motorcycle do not make for a safe rider - in addition to being able to operate the motorcycle, a street rider has to be cautious of everyone around them, and take road conditions, etc., into consideration.
3. Cager Training? -- I can't remember who came up with this idea (it was a few years ago), and though it's not feasible, it came to mind when thinking about this subject: Anybody wanting a drivers license in Colorado must first ride a motorcycle for x amount of time so they know what it's like for us every time we ride.
4. Laws Promoting Safety -- There was a helmet law where I learned to ride, so I'm not opposed to one, however, I think mandating new riders to wear a helmet for the first year might not be a bad idea.
5. Laws Promoting Safety -- +1 for tiered licensing. While it's true you can get hurt just as bad on a smaller/slower bike as you can a bigger/faster bike, you can get into a lot more trouble, a lot quicker on the bigger/faster bike.
6. Industry Help -- Dealerships should encourage new riders to purchase appropriate riding/safety gear at the same time that the bike is purchased, and to ease the burden this additional expense, dealerships should offer to include the cost of said gear into the financing of the bike.
7. Industry Help -- Someone else (once again, can't remember who - once again, t'was a few years ago) suggested that dealerships include a free helmet with the purchase of a new bike. Not a super nice helmet, necessarily, but a safe (SNELL & DOT approved) helmet, and give the customer the option (before they walk out the door) to upgrade it to a nicer helmet.

That's all I got for now. Keep up the good work!

[firegixx600]

Simple, everyone should buy a set of HID's and be have lights that are 300% brighter and be able to see rocks, deer, and other animals at night....i'm on my 3rd gixxer and have had HID's on them all and will never ride another motorcycle without them! They have saved me many times over!

[daemon]

dealers need some life lessons!!!!
http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/fo...d-thing-2.html

[dapper]

Our mind is capable of passing beyond the dividing line we have drawn on the roads to indicate passing. Motorcycles are more capable than most cars to pass with less real estate. As history has shown, creating more double yellow dividing lines increase less flexibility for passing. The passing areas become even more limited. As roads become repaved/resealed. The dividing lines have changed passing zones, typically toward double yellow if any changes at all. The lack of passing zones, or the lack of allowing driver judgment for safe passing actually increases aggressive driving or road rage toward rolling road blocks. As traffic builds up, tolerance slips along with self-control and patience. The majority of drivers will drive closer to the vehicles which decreases safety. Enforcement of double yellow crossings also wastes time, money and distracts proper attention from larger issues. Relying on the ethics of others, including their courtesy, has show depressant areas where citizens are not always proper.

The use of sand during winter weather storms have created beaches in intersections and between the trails of traveling vehicles. Waiting until spring is over to provide fair sand removal has contributed toward more accidents, unnecessary traffic tickets, unnecessary man hours because of the results that occurs from sand related incidents. If an officer hears the tire(s) of a vehicle with a slight rotation indicating a tire spinning, the officer responds by issuing a ticket for exhibition of speed, reckless driving, careless driving or nothing at all. Sand acts as ball bearings between two surfaces and reduces the ability to have a proper contact patch for accelerating, braking and turning, also known as “the traction circle”. Law enforcement officers may say that you are out of control, but what differentiates "control"? We all have different opinions and officers are given power to use their own discretion on making the call without proper knowledge of the individual(s) experience during traffic stops.

When it is necessary to repair or repave roads. The contractors sometimes must grove the pavement to pull up the old asphalt prior to laying on new asphalt. At moments, the course grove pavement actually creates excessive dangers to both motorcycles and cars. Motorcycles are more likely affected than cars because of the two wheel disadvantage. The clean-up of loose asphalt on the grooved pavement seams to lack strict standards. Leaving a type of ball bearing surface on grooved asphalt would compare to leaving sand on sidewalks in a senior citizen community or not applying anti-slip material in bath tubs for the elderly. If there is an accident on the road, the driver is usually ticketed, versus the contractor who left a hazardous situation and used the circumstantial excuse, 'there was adequate road construction signs warning the drivers'. This creates a domino effect for wasting time and money, but limited to courts, police officers, auto body shops, insurance claims/rates, air pollutants, traffic congestions, health insurance/care, funerals, etc.


Instead of guessing what could be done to improve safety for the public. You have taken the time to ask so the issue can be much more effective and efficient. Thank you!

[FZRguy]

Regarding stiffer penalties for drivers that kill or injure motorcyclists, the AMA is putting a great deal of effort behind its justice for all campaign, which has been very successful in getting state legislation passed in many states. Also, the AMA is trying to get federal legislation passed that would prevent insurance companies from denying claims for injuries suffered while engaging in activities such as motorcycling. There is information about both these at the AMA web site if you guys think it is something worth reviewing.

As for rider training, I would not mind paying an extra $5 per year for my motorcycle tag to fund rider training. Kind of like the OHV stickers that trail riders are required to have. That money goes to fund trail maintenance, rider education, enforcement, etc. It directly benefits OHV users, and I’m for a similar program that will benefit street riders.

[rforsythe]

Well, I am very happy to say that our presentation went extremely well. We were personally thanked by most of the panel individually afterwards for coming so well prepared, and for bringing some unique ideas that have actually not been shared with the CSC yet. I feel that Scott, Jason, and I represented the sportbike community professionally and with much positive energy and can't thank them enough for their efforts in this, especially on such short notice.

We will be part of an ongoing effort to further the cause, and a lot of good stuff has been shared in that conference so far which continues through tomorrow. We will also be working with ABATE to help get CSC more involved with all that they have going on, and to help make sportbikers a more visible part of demonstrating the better qualities of our group.

Other than the points we've all discussed above, here are two unique things that we offered up that you are all seeing for the first time:

1. I own a domain name called ridingsafer.org. I have offered the use of this domain, as well as the free hosting of such, to create a group and vendor neutral "clearing house" to disseminate information on responsible riding techniques, training, and other items of interest. "They" were so interested in this that I have contact information for folks at ABATE, CDOT and some more national-level types that would like to make this succeed. We will be calling upon the riding community to help this by volunteering your skill and time in web development, content writing, and getting the word out. You will be seeing MUCH more on this soon.

2. I wrote a draft of a concept I am calling 'Rider Decision Making'. This is a 3-page handout that we gave to everyone there, showing how we can literally reduce motorcycle crashes, injuries, and fatalities, by teaching riders how to "think". Similar concepts have been used in aviation and other groups to recognize dangerous mental attitudes and do active risk management, so I've adapted several of these concepts to motorcycle-specific text and distributed it. A PDF will be available on ridingsafer.org within a few days hopefully. This was met with a lot of acceptance, and I actually hope to see it catch on in national curriculum's and other areas.

Our powerpoint will be posted soon; I'm also trying to get the rest of the presentations (though we were the only bike club to have a PP today) however I'm not sure I will be able to distribute them, as they aren't mine. We've also been asked to, and have agreed to be a part of an ongoing "Motorcycle Safety Summit", which will effectively involve local groups and discussion, with a return to these nationally-attended round tables perhaps annually. In addition we were asked to present at an international motorcycle safety conference that is being hosted in Colorado in 2008, which will be in front of about 600+ people from across the world.

Suffice to say I think we surprised some people today, and ultimately made some real progress. Things will be accomplished and I actually think lives will be saved from all of this. I'd like to thank all of you for your input as it helped us represent you well, and I look forward to bringing more good news as we go forward. We'll also be looking for many of you to help this occur, as it will definitely be a "group effort" among motorcyclists and sportbikers.

I also spoke with multiple people from Harley groups who are interested in "bridging the gap", so expect some events and rides in that spirit. I'm going to try and set something up with law enforcement as well, who I'm told is also very interested in something along those lines as I am. It seems we all just needed something like this to bring us all together and create movement, but I really believe this is going to do a lot towards making us safer on the roads and helping our public image, two things which can only benefit us.

[TFOGGuys]

Huge kudos to Ralph and Scott(EDIT: )and Jason for making a huge positive impression! For far too long the sportbike community has been perceived as reckless hooligans....

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Great job to all of you Ralph, Scott, and Jason. It sounds like things went very well. It's exciting to hear how they embraced your presentations and are looking forward to future feedback from the community.

Once again, great job!

[rforsythe]

Huge kudos to Ralph and Scott for making a huge positive impression! For far too long the sportbike community has been perceived as reckless hooligans....

PS: And Jason Bonnema too!

[Spiderman]

That's great news Ralph!

Once again, a big THANK YOU to Scott, Jason, and Ralph for representing us, and the whole motorcycling community so well!

[pilot]

Thank you for all your groups work, as well thanks go to all the other groups for their efforts. Also, a few members came up with an idea tonight. Unfortunately, too late to make the presentation--if qualified. So, I'm going to post up something in the Track Days section.

[Pigpen]

Thank you for all your groups work, as well thanks go to all the other groups for their efforts. Also, a few members came up with an idea tonight. Unfortunately, too late to make the presentation--if qualified. So, I'm going to post up something in the Track Days section.

your attempt to contribute to this post on motorcycle safety is like Michael Jackson contributing to children's daycare reform

[rybo]

I just want to say thanks to Ralph and Jason for including me in this. I can't stress enough how well recieved our input was at this forum.

While the presentation went extremely well, I think the real progress was made in the two hours AFTER the presentation was over when we talked directly with members of the NTSB and CDOT. They had a lot of interest in our presenstation and it was clear that they were impressed by the thought and effort we put into it. A lot of thanks goes to you guys who contributed something of value to this discussion.

You can look here for a copy of our powerpoint presentation.

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/F...cty=US&lang=en

[suave16]

I have just one question and comment ....If I were on a board which is overlooked with a panel as large as these guys are I would say ....Rider safety is very important and one way we could improve this is get the Colorado Government to make it law that all Motorcycle riders must wear helmets, and my question is....do we really want that to happen.

[dapper]

Secretly, we need natural selection, we want natural selection to weed-out some folks. A helmet law doesn't address the state of mind of a rider or driver.


Gun Control is hitting what you aim for, just as, wearing a helmet to protect an asset.

[rforsythe]

I have just one question and comment ....If I were on a board which is overlooked with a panel as large as these guys are I would say ....Rider safety is very important and one way we could improve this is get the Colorado Government to make it law that all Motorcycle riders must wear helmets, and my question is....do we really want that to happen.

No, we don't want that to happen. Well, maybe you do, but the majority definitely don't. Statistics are showing a large increase in helmet use over the past few years anyway, to the point that quite a high (and surprising) percentage use them now - even the Harley riders. Is a law necessary if most people do it anyway?

We're adults, we know what we're getting ourselves into. We should be able to make up our own minds.

[suave16]

yeah and this could give them a idea about a law on helmets and that would suck

[rybo]

The idea is already out there and will likely make a list of recommendations that the NTSB makes to the State regarding motorcycle safety.

The group we met with was not heavily focussed on creating or implementing a helmet law, and seemed very concentrated in areas of education and awareness. A helmet law is ONE of 1000 possible solutions to improving motorcycle safety in the state.

That being said, helmet use is on the rise, with about 70% of riders reporting that they wear one "most of the time". Voluntary use is a much better solution because it is a person's choice. People who choose to be safer usually do that in more than one way.

Another surprising statistic from the meeting was that aprox. 35% of motocyclists surveyed indicate that they do NOT have an M endorsement on their licenses. One big step towards increasing motorcycle safety will be to assure that people take the necessary steps to have a proper license. I need to provide my DL to get car insurance....why not have to prove I have an M endorsement to get motorcycle insurance?

[will-t]

The idea is already out there and will likely make a list of recommendations that the NTSB makes to the State regarding motorcycle safety.

The group we met with was not heavily focussed on creating or implementing a helmet law, and seemed very concentrated in areas of education and awareness. A helmet law is ONE of 1000 possible solutions to improving motorcycle safety in the state.

That being said, helmet use is on the rise, with about 70% of riders reporting that they wear one "most of the time". Voluntary use is a much better solution because it is a person's choice. People who choose to be safer usually do that in more than one way.

Another surprising statistic from the meeting was that aprox. 35% of motocyclists surveyed indicate that they do NOT have an M endorsement on their licenses. One big step towards increasing motorcycle safety will be to assure that people take the necessary steps to have a proper license. I need to provide my DL to get car insurance....why not have to prove I have an M endorsement to get motorcycle insurance?

I just recently went in for plates and part of the procedure was that the clerk checked my license for the M before I could receive my registration. When that statistic was brought up, was there any mention of how those 35% manager to register their ride without being properly licensed?

[BlueDog]

I just recently went in for plates and part of the procedure was that the clerk checked my license for the M before I could receive my registration. When that statistic was brought up, was there any mention of how those 35% manager to register their ride without being properly licensed?

Interesting, I didnt notice if the lady at the dmv did that or not when i went in today... But that is a good idea, no plates for your bike if you haven't gotten your endorsement. But at the same time getting thatendorsement is not hard enough and the test taken to get it proves very little about a riders competency.

[TFOGGuys]

I need to provide my DL to get car insurance....why not have to prove I have an M endorsement to get motorcycle insurance?

You need to have an insured motorcycle to take the riding portion of the test to receive the coveted "M"(or alternatively, you can take an MSF course). So, I guess it's a question of which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Perhaps if the government feels a need to regulate such things, the requirement should be either a valid motorcycle endorsement OR a valid motorcycle learner's permit to insure the bike.

[rforsythe]

I sat through the panel's formal recommendations this morning, which essentially went into a report that is in the state's hands; that report will get some additional editing and discussion, and then be released to the public. I do have some finer points of the recommendations though:
- A lot of it was directed at the effectiveness of the MOST program, or lack thereof. Basically the whole thing needs a review to ensure it's living up to its legal mandates, and that things that should be getting done actually are.
- CDOT already does a lot I wasn't aware of. They've been recommended to actually make a point of telling people about it.
- CSP and other law enforcement is really trying to help this out, they've had some recommendations on ways to improve that.

Our (meaning the presentation we gave) ideas on how to fix things actually made it into the formal report, which is a pretty cool thing. We'll continue to work to make sure it actually happens. Other clubs would like to interact with CSC, and I met with CSP's main motorcycle guy Tim, who I hope to work with on better involvement with them as well. I was even asked if we had a counterpart in Ohio that could do that presentation; I indicated that we didn't, but might be able to do something there all the same, we will see what happens.

The positive reactions and outcome of this conference continue to evolve, but it is most certainly gathering steam, and results will come of it - likely in the form of lives saved. Good stuff.