Hitting front brakes in a curve, BAD

[rybo]

Crunch,

I'm going to disagree with you. The issue was about using the brake in a corner and how that happens. that IS technique.

Trail braking, the long discussion that never got started, applying brakes gradually to load the suspension and front tire effectively are all technique items and of value to this discussion.

s

[rforsythe]

MotoGP guys are on their front brakes when they're turning all the time. Not much, but they're on it.

So are a lot of other racers. Note the subtle but vital difference between being on the brakes already as you start to turn (decreasing your brake pressure as you lean further), versus being leaned and then grabbing them which will push the front end out and make bad things happen.

[crunch]

So are a lot of other racers. Note the subtle but vital difference between being on the brakes already as you start to turn (decreasing your brake pressure as you lean further), versus being leaned and then grabbing them which will push the front end out and make bad things happen.

Granted, not many drastic actions are going to bear good results when at full lean situations. Alot of times, grabbing the front brake at less experienced riders speeds will result in standing the bike up mid corner.

[Bugkiller1]

A great quote... I think from Kevin Schwantz "Wait till you see god, then brake!"

[rybo]

Granted, not many drastic actions are going to bear good results when at full lean situations. Alot of times, grabbing the front brake at less experienced riders speeds will result in standing the bike up mid corner.

That happens at almost any speed.

I think the critical thing to remember here is that there is a big difference between starting to brake on the straightaway and carrying that braking effort INTO the corner and getting leaned over and THEN applying the brakes. The first results in a pretty stable situation the second greatly de-stabilizes the bike. Also there is a difference between applying front brake gradually and grabbing it, again, one works better than the other.

I like to think of the controls of my motorcycle more as a faucet than a light switch. Not just "on or off" but with a whole range of force inbetween. This works for the brakes and the throttle equally well and results in smooth riding.

[dirkterrell]

I know this might be nit picking, but since this is a Riding Technique forum, maybe the title of this thread could be modified or the thread moved to a different forum. If you are in a corner and have to grab a brake for some reason, you'd be better off grabbing the front brake. I lost a friend a few years back bacause he got in a corner a little hot and hit the rear brake which slid the bike out from under him and introduced him to the guard rail.

I disagree with the claim that this thread is in the wrong place. Braking in a turn is a riding technique that people need to learn and practice. You certainly don't want to "grab" either brake when leaned over. In fact, I would take it further and say you don't want to "grab" the brakes anytime. Quick inputs (throttle or brakes) get the suspension unsettled and make it very hard to control the bike. Smooth, deliberate inputs allow you to control the bike much better. Braking in a turn is something that you need to practice in a safe environment so that you know how to do it without upsetting the bike.

Dirk

[Slo]

I like to think of the controls of my motorcycle more as a faucet than a light switch. Not just "on or off" but with a whole range of force inbetween. This works for the brakes and the throttle equally well and results in smooth riding.

This is very true, even at a small track like IMI and with just my skill level, I have seen a difference with what your saying. I started at IMI slamming on the brakes coming off the straight and noticing the nose just instantly diving, also making it hard to initiate the turn in. luckily I learned a little bit about braking smooth and how it affects the suspension and helps get into turns much easier and more planted.

Getting on/off the brakes smoothly is just as important as getting on/off the throttle. Same thing with getting the bike to lean and especially going into switch backs.

[crunch]

Crunch,

I'm going to disagree with you. The issue was about using the brake in a corner and how that happens. that IS technique.

Trail braking, the long discussion that never got started, applying brakes gradually to load the suspension and front tire effectively are all technique items and of value to this discussion.

s

Sorry, I missed your response. I couldn't agree more which is why, if it is to stay here, I suggested that maybe the thread title be altered. It kinda gives the impression that braking while cornering is "BAD". I also totally agree that braking is a tecnique anytime you are riding, not just cornering. Like I said previously, having lost a friend who didn't understand and practice this, I find this an incredibly valuable discussion.

[crunch]

I disagree with the claim that this thread is in the wrong place. Braking in a turn is a riding technique that people need to learn and practice. You certainly don't want to "grab" either brake when leaned over. In fact, I would take it further and say you don't want to "grab" the brakes anytime. Quick inputs (throttle or brakes) get the suspension unsettled and make it very hard to control the bike. Smooth, deliberate inputs allow you to control the bike much better. Braking in a turn is something that you need to practice in a safe environment so that you know how to do it without upsetting the bike.

Dirk

I agree, see post #32

[Sortarican]

Joe (Jplracing) was explaining some of the finer points of trail braking to me a couple weeks back.
I've been trying to practice it.
When I've hit it right it's unbeleivable how much more stable the bike is
with the suspension partially loaded, and much faster through the turn.

Normally I'm off the brakes entering a turn, and on the throttle through it.
Not the fastest way through but it feels stable.
Until I enter a turn too fast, then I'm on the brake, the nose drops, weight shifts way forward, and the bike stands up.
At that point I'm going wide, hanging way off to keep it on line (and praying I don't come out of the turn slapping tank), or just going down.

Bad/Old habits are really hard to break.

[uberwench]

You were going fast enough in MSF class to high side?

And you're no dumbass. You don't ride your own bike in MSF class, right? So you passed the class, learned a valuable lesson about crashing and you didn't get hurt, and didn't crash your own bike.

[smobag]

So first off, PASSED my msf class! yeah. Next found out what a high side is. fucked up my boot, jeans, knee, hip is sore as hell, arm is a little bloody. Needless to say i hit the front brake on a curve during the class. And the bike told me no, And flipped me off of it. Other then the fact that im a dumbass. im pretty happy. the class went well. just thought i would let everyone know

Tyrel

how in the hell did u highside? It just doesnt seem possible at the speeds they expect you to go?