Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 25 to 48 of 50

Thread: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

  1. #25
    Senior Member The GECCO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    HPR
    Posts
    1,245

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    WRONG

    Are you just making this bullshit up off the top of your head?

    http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/081094.html
    Sorry, Chris, but I'm not wrong. Surface tension = cohesion. They say lower adhesion, I say raise surface tension, these are two ways of saying the same thing.

    In that article they talk about wax filling in the imperfections of the paint (making the surface smoother, and a smoother surface has less surface area to present). A smooth surface always has a higher surface tension than a rough one. Was I technically wrong by saying that the PAINT is beading the water rather than the microscopic layer of chemicals that are making the surface smoother? Perhaps....wow, ya got me there

    They also talk about wax being hydrophobic. This was true many years ago when car wax actually WAS wax, or at least had wax/parafin in it. Those products went the way of the Dodo a while back because that stuff built up over time and clouded finishes. We still call it car wax, but these days there are much more advanced chemicals in use, but they all pretty much do the same thing - they polish down and/or fill in surface imperfections in the paint to raise the surface tension (by lowering the surface area), which blocks out contaminants (like water)

    Water Wetter lowers the cohesion, that's what a surfactant DOES, by definition.

    Go back to school and try again. Or at least find an article that wasn't written over decade ago.
    The GECCO

    You begin your riding career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.

  2. #26
    Member Chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    329

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Well i was not really trying to be an ass so i can agree to disagree.

    I don't think the phrase "surface tension" should be used at all, it is at best confusing.

  3. #27
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    16

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    anyone not already bored by this post and it's participants trying to prove how smart they are(Napoleonic complex maybe)...can read more about Surfactants below:

    Etymology
    The term surfactant is a blend of "surface active agent". Surfactants are usually organic compounds that are amphiphilic, meaning they contain both hydrophobic groups (their "tails") and hydrophilic groups (their "heads"). Therefore, they are soluble in both organic solvents and water. The term surfactant was coined by Antara Products in 1950.
    In Index Medicus and the United States National Library of Medicine, "surfactant" is reserved for the meaning pulmonary surfactant (see "alveoli" link below). For the more general meaning, "surface active agent" is the heading.
    The most common, biological example of surfactant is that coating the surfaces of the Alveoli, the small air sacs of the lungs that serve as the site of gas exchange.

    Operation and effects


    A micelle - the lipophilic ends of the surfactant molecules dissolve in the oil, while the hydrophilic charged ends remain outside, shielding the rest of the hydrophobic micelle


    Surfactants reduce the surface tension of water by adsorbing at the liquid-gas interface. They also reduce the interfacial tension between oil and water by adsorbing at the liquid-liquid interface. Many surfactants can also assemble in the bulk solution into aggregates. Some of these aggregates are known as micelles. The concentration at which surfactants begin to form micelles is known as the critical micelle concentration or CMC. When micelles form in water, their tails form a core that can encapsulate an oil droplet, and their (ionic/polar) heads form an outer shell that maintains favorable contact with water. When surfactants assemble in oil, the aggregate is referred to as a reverse micelle. In a reverse micelle, the heads are in the core and the tails maintain favorable contact with oil.
    Surfactants are also often classified into four primary groups; anionic, cationic, non-ionic, and zwitterionic (dual charge).
    Thermodynamics of the surfactant systems are of great importance, theoretically and practically. This is because surfactant systems represent systems between ordered and disordered states of matter. Surfactant solutions may contain an ordered phase (micelles) and a disordered phase (free surfactant molecules and/or ions in the solution).
    Ordinary washing up (dishwashing) detergent, for example, will promote water penetration in soil, but the effect would only last a few days (although many standard laundry detergent powders contain levels of chemicals such as sodium and boron, which can be damaging to plants, so these should not be applied to soils). Commercial soil wetting agents will continue to work for a considerable period, but they will eventually be degraded by soil micro-organisms. Some can, however, interfere with the life-cycles of some aquatic organisms, so care should be taken to prevent run-off of these products into streams, and excess product should not be washed down gutters.





  4. #28
    Senior Member Bassil Duwaik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aurora
    Posts
    799

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    ah you killed it pf702. it sounded much cooler when gecco said it
    If you don't like me I'll shave your cat, steal your extension cords, not limited to your multiple supply outlet adapters and raid your fridge. Please don't let this inhibit you from contacting me, just be mortified;-p

  5. #29
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Westminster
    Posts
    18

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Pressure can't be the only thing that affects boiling temperature. After all, that's why there are different DOT approved brake fluids. Each one has a different boiling point, and you aren't changing any pressure there.

  6. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    27

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    i always use water wetter in all my race bikes

  7. #31
    Junior Member InSuPress's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Denver Co
    Posts
    24

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    I just swapped the coolant out on my bike, 50/50 mix with 1/3 of a bottle of water wetter and i can say bike is running cooler, no longer at lights are my legs getting hot. they used to cook me at all lights. Haven't had that happen at all.

  8. #32
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The white section of Aurora (Tallyn's Reach)
    Posts
    9,331

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Excellent info here, but I will disagree that the soap itself does not clean. Yes, it is a surfactant, allowing the water to carry away the dirt better, but most soaps still break down the contaminants (skin oils, etc.), so it really does help clean. Don't believe me? Get real dirty, and try using car wax in the shower instead of soap. Errrr, or maybe not. THAT leaves a bad mental image.
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

  9. #33
    Senior Member mdub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    5 pts Favela
    Posts
    4,549

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    car wax
    i did noticed in the past when i wax over smudge/dirt that it does come right off. And surprisingly enuff it somehows prevents the dirt to scuff the plastic.

  10. #34
    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Denver area
    Posts
    2,490

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by InSuPress View Post
    I just swapped the coolant out on my bike, 50/50 mix with 1/3 of a bottle of water wetter and i can say bike is running cooler, no longer at lights are my legs getting hot. they used to cook me at all lights. Haven't had that happen at all.
    I hope your garage is heated. otherwise, run coolant in the winter
    #703

  11. #35
    Business in the front, party in the back! CYCLE_MONKEY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The white section of Aurora (Tallyn's Reach)
    Posts
    9,331

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Pressure can't be the only thing that affects boiling temperature. After all, that's why there are different DOT approved brake fluids. Each one has a different boiling point, and you aren't changing any pressure there.
    Exactly. Salinity, mineral content, lubricant, and other factors do affect the boiling pointas WELL as the pressure, though perhaps to a very minor degree. And yes, I know you need to use distilled water to eliminate that variable.

    Yeah, wax DOES help get contaminates off the paint, but soap is better and doesn't leave the residue.
    --------------------------------------------------
    "...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

    -Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    --------------------------------------------------
    Blu/Wht '01 Gixxer 1K, '91 KX500
    --------------------------------------------------
    Tokin' SortaTalian
    (Pronounced: Kind-A-Dago)

  12. #36
    Account Deactivated at users request Yearly Supporter
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Posts
    695

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Wow, Gecco for the best post of the year. The forum just got a bit more readable again.

    Another product to try instead of Water Wetter is Mocool by Motul. The MV F4 is infamous for running hot. Steve at Mad Moto recommended this stuff along with a few of the normal MV forum fixes and it really helped. I'm using a mixture of this along with normal anti-freeze so I still have the protection.

    http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...l-Coolant.aspx

  13. #37
    Senior Member UglyDogRacing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Littleton
    Posts
    2,669

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarX View Post
    Wow, Gecco for the best post of the year. The forum just got a bit more readable again.
    Which year? His first post was in this thread was 2004 and his 2nd was in 2007.
    Motorcycle Roadracing Association #29
    President

    MSF
    Rider Coach

  14. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    D'troit
    Posts
    3,148

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by tecknojoe View Post
    I hope your garage is heated. otherwise, run coolant in the winter



    50/50 is good to ~-34F IIRC


    and this

    Quote Originally Posted by UglyDogRacing View Post
    Which year? His first post was in this thread was 2004 and his 2nd was in 2007.

  15. #39
    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Denver area
    Posts
    2,490

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    I was under the impression that water wetter is not suitable at low temps. is that wrong?
    #703

  16. #40
    Gold Member Bueller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    El Tardo
    Posts
    8,879

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    50% water w/water wetter and 50% anti freeze is what he is referring to.


  17. #41
    Senior Member tecknojoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Denver area
    Posts
    2,490

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    o, i thought he was talking 50% wetter and 50% water.
    #703

  18. #42
    Account Deactivated at users request Yearly Supporter
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Highlands Ranch
    Posts
    695

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by UglyDogRacing View Post
    Which year? His first post was in this thread was 2004 and his 2nd was in 2007.
    ...thus explaining my shock that a literate, intelligent, knowledgeable, thoughtful, helpful post was actually on the forum in late 2011.

    Thanks for clarifying Jim! LOL

  19. #43
    Member mathman1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Fort Collins
    Posts
    313

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    WRONG

    Are you just making this bullshit up off the top of your head?

    http://www.pa.msu.edu/sciencet/ask_st/081094.html

    You're kidding right? If you read the article it says the same thing; that is if you can understand what Glen wrote.
    2011 KTM 690 Enduro (w/ SuMo Setup)
    2008 Honda CBR600RR Graffiti
    2002 DRZ400E

  20. #44
    Senior Member WolFeYeZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    DU
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by mathman1000 View Post
    You're kidding right? If you read the article it says the same thing; that is if you can understand what Glen wrote.
    You do know you are arguing with an over 4 year old post, right?
    MRA Expert #880 - 2015 AmateurGTO Champion, 2013 NoviceGTU Champion
    2006 YZF-R6 Race "No name" - 2005 YZF-R6 Street "Aurora"
    2015 Sponsors: Dunlop, Speedin Motorsports, STM Suspension, Silkolene Lubricants, EBC Brakes, Pit-Bull Products

    Text: (72O) 432-7236

  21. #45
    Senior Member One-ops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Littleton
    Posts
    1,222

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    6 years seems long enough for the next post on this one! LOL
    No talk of corrosive properties. I was told and read a bit that purple ice has more then water wetter. After years of using water wetter the cooling system looks a bit nasty. So I'm trying it out and no worries of distilled water. Although after reading mixing directions water wetter didn't need it either. Swore it did years ago. Maybe that was some of my problem with corrosion?

  22. #46
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,581

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by One-ops View Post
    6 years seems long enough for the next post on this one! LOL
    No talk of corrosive properties. I was told and read a bit that purple ice has more then water wetter. After years of using water wetter the cooling system looks a bit nasty. So I'm trying it out and no worries of distilled water. Although after reading mixing directions water wetter didn't need it either. Swore it did years ago. Maybe that was some of my problem with corrosion?
    nothing like waking up a zombie thread..
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    "So live your life so the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their views, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
    "

    "Finish today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."




  23. #47
    Senior Member One-ops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Littleton
    Posts
    1,222

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Don't be alarmed.
    The stale deadness will resume

  24. #48
    Senior Member The Black Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,581

    Re: Engine Temp & Cooling (Was "Wetter Water")

    Quote Originally Posted by One-ops View Post
    Don't be alarmed.
    The stale deadness will resume
    Oh no, I think it's funny man. This thread is informative. I do get a kick out of waking up a zombie thread. On one of the guitar forums I'm on, some guys will revive stuff that's super old just for fun. Pisses everyone off. I think it's great, and the only way to troll.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    "So live your life so the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their views, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide.
    "

    "Finish today what others won't, so you can achieve tomorrow what others can't."




Similar Threads

  1. The Engine Technology of the Honda RC174
    By Lee in forum Bike Tech
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Wed Jun 14th, 2006, 08:38 AM
  2. Replies: 5
    Last Post: Tue Dec 13th, 2005, 08:03 PM
  3. gsxr engine removal
    By jah in forum Bike Tech
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Wed Apr 20th, 2005, 12:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •