T's Newb Question of the Week #2 - Braking

[64BonnieLass]

Okay let's do braking:

When, if at all, do you trail brake? Is there ever a valid reason for doing so?

And, I know there is some mixed media here, but when braking for a light, or before starting a turn, should you start with rear brake first, then front brake, or both in conjunction with one another?

I personally, am already forming my habits. But let's see what you all think!

[Bueller]

Break=broken
To brake is to slow down.

[mushin_man39]

what's a rear brake?

[Bueller]

Generally don't even need your rear brake. You can use both for emergency stops.
Do your braking before the corner. Slow in, fast out. Trail braking is a more advanced technique, that allows you to carry more speed into and through corners.

[Canuck]

Contrary to popular belief, the rear break is very valuable and you should consider using it properly. Terri, I would consider practicing the break-in-turn very slowly and in a gradual manner. Remember this, you will feel the bike pull toward the outside of a turn with the more pressure that is applied to the brakes. This is your indicator as to how much you can apply the brakes. I would take the CSC track day at the end of July for better practice opportunities

[64BonnieLass]

Break=broken
To brake is to slow down.

I LOVE HUG A TARD GUY. Jesus mary and joseph thanks for not quoting that so I could fix it....ha ha ha ha.
Please god someone fix the title for me, por favor?!

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

I LOVE HUG A TARD GUY. Jesus mary and joseph thanks for not quoting that so I could fix it....ha ha ha ha.
Please God someone fix the title for me, por favor?!

[mushin_man39]

What's a rear brake for? Never used it. Seen plenty of people lock it up and wad it up, though.

[dirkterrell]

When, if at all, do you trail brake? Is there ever a valid reason for doing so?

And, I know there is some mixed media here, but when braking for a light, or before starting a turn, should you start with rear brake first, then front brake, or both in conjunction with one another?

When just starting out, I would recommend getting the braking done before the turn and rolling on the throttle as you begin the turn. As you become more comfortable with turns and judging your entry speeds, slowly start to experiment with very, very light inputs to the front brake to get a feel for what the bike is going to do. Braking in a turn in something you need to learn how to do but you need to approach it in a very controlled way and in a safe place. I personally do not ride at a pace on the street where much braking at all is needed for turns. I often lightly apply the front to get the suspension settled (as opposed to scrubbing off much speed) as I enter a turn, leading to a much smoother (and faster) turn. On the track, I am often on the front brake well into the turn but I don't ride anywhere near that pace on the street.

I find that I rarely use the back brake except in hard stops. And when doing so, I apply front and back at the same time. You need to be very careful not to lock up the back in a turn. If you do, it's usually best to just keep it locked up and ride it to a stop. If you release the brake at speed, it will regain traction and send you into a nasty highside.

Another inportant thing involving braking is what to do if you know you are going to go off the road and into dirt/gravel. Scrub as much speed off with the front brake while you are on pavement but stay off the front in the soft stuff and use the back.

Dirk

[dapper]

BMW has the anti skid system...

Jason/Bueller covered breaking like'a jimmy cap

[64BonnieLass]

I have been using the rear brake coming upon a light then slow front brake to actually stop on a dime. In mountain biking if you use too much front...you "endo" (sp - per usual)
So in MSF, they teach rear brake.
I have been doing some rear braking for the sake of other motorists knowing I'm signaling to slow, then front to really stop if needed. I do find myself off the front beginning to turn then, maintanence throttle through the turn but have noticed I'm still on that rear brake just a tad. I have tried to stop the habit, afraid of the consequences.
Now sometimes, with loose hands on the grips I fly through the turns with the above methodolgy, sometimes a bit more wide than I would prefer.

How do I correct the braking and the turn so that it is a fluid movement? (yes practice)

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

Terri-

Good article here on breaking....heheh...braking.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/1...trail_braking/

and more about other riding techniques here.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/

[lightning126zp]

I always do both at the same time. Slow into a turn and then maintain or accelerate out of the turn. As for normal braking, I use both as well.

[dapper]

If you listen to your bike, it will tell you a secret:
You're on my BRAKE and on my GAS, I'm frustrated!?! If my brakes fail, I'll hurl you FORWARD!


keep your bike(s) off these trucks

[mushin_man39]

You have too many questions in your question. You really need to break (no pun intended) down your riding. I would recommend Keith Code's books as a reference point. Don't know that I would ever really trust someone on a forum to tell me how to correct my riding without knowing their pedigree and having them follow me on the track a few laps.

[pilot]

Trail braking is an advance form of cornering technique. It differs from braking in the straights prior to entering a corner and applying the brakes while in turn.

Braking in the straights allows you to enter the turn at the proper speed for your experience level, road conditions and your bikes capabilities. With this standard technique you have released the brakes before you begin your turn in. In doing so your suspension is set prior to beginning the turn.

Getting on the brakes, while in the turn, can cause the bike to "stand-up" and head toward the outside of the turn. About the only time you will have to get on the brakes in the middle of a turn is when you are in need of a quick stop. Such as when the deer walks out in front of you while riding on Parmalee Gulch in Indian Hills at dusk.

Trail braking is an advanced technique that requires a fair amount of practice. In trail braking one applies the brakes through the beginning of the turn. This has the effect of causing the front end to compress and changes its geometry (reduces rake and trail-hence the name trail braking).

The basics of front end geometry are rake and trail. Rake is the angle from a line drawn through the steering axis and steering head as it relates to a vertical line drawn up from the ground through the front axle. Trail is the distance between the contact patch (below the front axle) and the steering axis line.



The more rake and trail a bike has the more stable it is. Harleys and other chopper style bikes have increased rake and trail and thus they are more stable in a straight line, but harder to turn. Sport bikes have a very short angle and thus turn more easily and quickly.

The effect of compressing the front end via trail braking effectively reduces the trail angle and allows the bike to turn in more quickly. Then slowly releasing the front brake while simultaneously easing on more throttle will allow the bike to avoid fast (unstable) load transfers from the front tire to the rear. Avoid quick weight transfers as they can lead to loss of control.

As Bueller points out, slow in-fast out, is one of the best (most stable) methods of cornering.

In this photo it can be seen the front end is compressed while the rear suspension is under limited load all this while the bike is in full lean. Direct evidence of trail braking.


Of course, trail braking comes after the basics like: getting on the balls of your feet on the pegs and keeping them tight in to the bike, sitting back on the seat to keep your weight balanced on the suspension, setting your upper body up for the turn in, braking prior to the turn, looking through the turn, etc...

[jplracing]

Terri,

Trail braking can be very help full in getting the bike to turn in and charge the corner fast/harder.

However, if done wrong it is a low side waiting to happen.

As I said in the email....come to PMP on Monday and we can work on that