Noise Ordinance in Denver Passed

[Brizz]

Hopefully, a more sensible law will be passed with the help of the AMA

+1

[R1chie]

What ever happend to Land of the Free? Seriously, this is rediculous. I have an aftermarket pipe, its nothing too crazy but now any cop can pull me over at a dime and ruin my night?

There has to be worse crimes then loud pipes, and why is my tax money going to be used against me. Why don't we worry about more important things, like gun control, drugs, ect ect.

Gun control goes against the second amendment which is our right. In the home of the free, there is no greater importance than to make sure our government does not take away our rights. It amazes me the indifference people have to our rights. Driving a bike or a car is not a right, it is a privilege and when anyone uses loud exhaust it effects everyone. The reason they pass these laws is because people are inconsiderate (whether Harley or sportbike) when they offend everyone around them with loud noise. I do not like restrictive laws but because there are so many offenders. It does seem like revenue generation though (Though the only way to enforce this type of law is to hit you where it hurts, in your pocketbook). If the government made it illegal for manufactures to make them, they would not exist and the general population would not have them. Then the cops could target people who truly are offensive. Like smoking, they make laws against individuals as well as small business (that should be able to make those decisions themselves) and tell them they cannot smoke in places yet the tobacco companies are not even touched, seems like hypocrisy to me.

The fault though lies in those who offend others by putting on loud pipes and eventually we will see less offense.

[Brizz]

The fault though lies in those who offend others by putting on loud pipes and eventually we will see less offense.

Not sure if i agree with you here Rich. I have my exhaust for looks not noise..And many ppl do the same as me. They do it for looks..So by doing it to offend someone, thats on the individual.

[FortitudoX]

Gun control goes against the second amendment which is our right. In the home of the free, there is no greater importance than to make sure our government does not take away our rights. It amazes me the indifference people have to our rights. Driving a bike or a car is not a right, it is a privilege and when anyone uses loud exhaust it effects everyone. The reason they pass these laws is because people are inconsiderate (whether Harley or sportbike) when they offend everyone around them with loud noise. I do not like restrictive laws but because there are so many offenders. It does seem like revenue generation though (Though the only way to enforce this type of law is to hit you where it hurts, in your pocketbook). If the government made it illegal for manufactures to make them, they would not exist and the general population would not have them. Then the cops could target people who truly are offensive. Like smoking, they make laws against individuals as well as small business (that should be able to make those decisions themselves) and tell them they cannot smoke in places yet the tobacco companies are not even touched, seems like hypocrisy to me.

The fault though lies in those who offend others by putting on loud pipes and eventually we will see less offense.

So you're telling me its our right to have a gun (which I agree), but its not our right to ride? Its our right to be free, which would also mean its our right to ride. It's not a privlidge.

So by your logic? Your dog barks at night, i find that offensive! Shall we make barking dogs at night illegal? Or how about your shirt has an offensive image! Shall we make certain t shirt companys illegal. Or how about I don't like the collor yellow, its bright and hurts my eyes how about we make yellow cars illegal? I don't like laws that target specific goroups of people.

As far as loud pipes, whats the worse that happens, you might get woken up in the middle of the night? I never have, but hell the wind wakes me up.

I wouldn't even mind a law that declares some pipes illeegal, but a law that makes every single aftermarket pipe illegal? Wtf? As mentioned above, i like my chrome pipe, it goes with my custom paint job. The stock pipe, is well bleh.

Oh and back to gun control, I never said you couldn't own a gun, but no offense I don't want crazies owning a gun, by right or not. This isn't the wild west either, chances are if you need a gun for protection its too late anyway. I just think things like the VT shooting, or that denver bronco shooting deserve a lot more attention then loud pipes. Yes I know we're not in VA.

[Brizz]

Stupid ppl offend me...BAN THEM.

[*GSXR~SNAIL*]

I fucking hate loud pipes as much as I hate emo kids but it still should not be illegal. If it is a noise ordinance it should cover all noise sources. Lawn mowers, the god damn leaf blowers that are run at 7 in the fucking morning, jake brakes on large trucks, ghetto ass $300 cars with $4k in stereo equipment in them, son of a bitchin' screaming neighborhood kids, and that soon to be dead neighbors dog that constantly barks at 1 in the "for the love of all that is packing heat make it fucking stop!" morning!!!

I couldn't of said it better Dana. If we're going after noise, then let's address all of it. Let's not discriminate. These yahoo's in their piece of crap cars cruising neighborhoods with their $4k stereo's shaking the hell out of my house...make them have to change out their stereo to "stock", that f'ing damn dog 3 houses away that won't stop barking at 1 a.m....make the owners put a damn muzzle on it, etc., etc.

I can see the point of the noise ordinance, but to isolate and enforce with bias as it appears they will be doing is not making much sense to me. Might as well say the seat belt law only applies to those that drive red import sedans. Everyone else you don't have to wear your seatbelts.

What a joke.

[Suki]

ghetto ass $300 cars with $4k in stereo equipment in them, and that soon to be dead neighbors dog that constantly barks at 1 in the "for the love of all that is packing heat make it fucking stop!" morning!!!

we saw one of these broke down cars yesterday bumpin his ride, looked like one more bass hit and it was going to fall apart!

as far as the barking dog i'm with you all the way! Last week i hardly got any sleep because someone's stupid freakin dog kept barking non stop. sounded like it was from a house across quincy, but i'll be damned if i'm going to jump in my car at 1am and cruise the hood of Aurora looking for some stupid dog!

And what i dont understand is that if this dog and wake up and keep me up and i'm across quincy, how the hell is it that the owners or neighbors are not bothered by it. if it was one of our neighbors dogs, i'd be over there at 1am pounding on their door! if you're going to be out that night, put the dog inside!

i haven't gotten night of decent sleep in about 2 weeks, i'm ready to go Son of Sam on everyone!

back to the noise ordinance, since it doesn't apply to every type of noise, does it atleast apply to the harley bikes as well as sport bikes? i dont know anything about those bikes, but i'm assuming that the noise their bikes puts out isn't from an aftermarket pipe. so what do they do?

[dm_gsxr]

1. The noise ordinance applies to everyone. Check the noise laws. 50/55db in neighborhoods for regular noises (leaf blowers, lawn mowers). 82db for vehicles under 10,000 lbs at 25', etc.

2. The new exhaust ordinance applies only to motorcycles. If you don't have the etched in EPA statement (valid for 80db, etc...), then you can get a $500/999 ticket whether or not you're moving.

Yesterday at the tech day, had we been in Denver and had that police car that drove by stopped, he could have simply walked up the line of bikes and any bike where he couldn't find that EPA statement on the exhaust, he could have written up a $500 ticket.

Again, the problem is that the police officers have to be trained and have to be supplied with legal decible measuring devices. Yea, you can go down to Radio Shack and pick up a cheap one for $20 but for one that has to stand up in court it has to be more expensive ($1000 I think I read). The officers also have to be precise in their measurements so likely have to be trained in how to properly use the device so any ticket will stand up in court.

So police officers can certainly be called out on nuicance problems; barking dogs for instance. But the folks with the $300 car and $4k stereo aren't likely to be pulled over, same with aftermarket piped bikes. Mainly because by the time the cops arrive, they're long gone. If the cop was sitting at a light, patrolling and not between incidents, he might pull someone over if they had loud pipes. Assuming the biker doesn't take off of course and then everyone's up in arms "you chased a biker because he had loud pipes!? Are you crazy?"

Which do you think would be an easier to prosecute ticket? No EPA sticker on your exhaust, or a decibal ticket where you have to deal with certification and testing of officers and expensive devices?

Carl

[pilot]

So, it's going to take a few weeks to a month for all that "law" to make it to "policy" at DPD. Then, training for officers before they hit the streets. At least that is the way it normally works.

Anybody got a ticket yet?

Anybody talk to a friend who is DPD to get the inside skinny?

[JustSomeDude]

Anybody got a ticket yet?

Hey Pilot - It is my understanding that it doesn't take effect until July 1. So we're all in the clear for a few more weeks.

[Kanabiis]

This was being discussed on Steve Douglas’ KOA show tonight. I called in to explain that I hate loud motorcycles, however, this ordinance discriminates against all motorcyclists, loud or not that don’t have stock exhaust. The host is a cop and he believes that if it stands as is, there will be a flurry of enforcement followed by little enforcement, unless you have an obnoxiously loud bike (Harley with straight pipes). Hopefully, a more sensible law will be passed with the help of the AMA

Any law that becomes selectively enforced, or is not enforced at all is a worthless law, and should have never passed in the first place.

The fact that there are cops that openly admit to selectively choosing to do their job, or feel that they alone get to decide what law gets applied to which offender, is much scarier then this noise ordinance.

And the police question why they receive no respect from people these days...

[pilot]

Hey Pilot - It is my understanding that it doesn't take effect until July 1. So we're all in the clear for a few more weeks.

That sounds right. I seem to recall reading that a while back. Thanks.

[FortitudoX]

I'm just surprised the law is so broad.

I wouldn't be so offended if the law satated something like....

"500 dollor fine if aftermarket pipes found on a bike while the bike was riding through a residental area after 10 P.M." That atleast makes sense to me. It's how the law is( will be) enforced that bothers me.

I don't understand how my aftermarket pipe is unlawfull on a a mid day cruise through Denver on the highway. Chances are you wouldn't even notice it.

Another question, does this affect Colorado residents only? Or say some guy from Wyoming wanted to cruise through, would he get poped as well?

[Priller_Nate]

Priller Nate,

How are you going to quote me, call my quote B.S. and then delete part of what I said?

I'm not debating how a criminal is going to use his weapon, I'm stating that their are more important things out there, that are life threatening. This seems like they're giving a reason for cops to pull bikers over. And I hope that having loud pipes isn't considerd a true crime!

I was simply wanting to harp on the needing more "gun control" portion of your statement, without bringing in the other parts, as I think we have more than enough as is. And your preaching to the choir with me regarding the loud pipes being ticketed. Stupidest thing I have heard for the cops to be allowed to do that especially at the fine they intend to impose!

[FortitudoX]

Ah allright I wasn't sure what you were implying. No worries, hopefully things will change, because I agree it is absurd.

[dapper]

For weeks, I have read different articles about the 'loud pipes'. This one tops my list for the mind-twisting abuse. (Today's paper 6-24-07)


"Motorcyclists would be a lot safer if their unnecessary show-off noise didn't make people want to run them over."

WOW...

It's wasn't me officer...the noise made me do it.

[Jobe]

^ How old is that reporter? He looks like they pulled him out of the coffin for his portrait!

[wulf]

If the cops have to have decible meters to prove their case, why then can they get away with writing speeding tickets based on their estimated speed?

It has held up in court that a traffic officers' eyes can be the definition of your speed, no radar/laser or whatever is needed.

I have a feeling this is going to be a one sided fight.

Quite honestly i agree with the law. Above 80db is within range to damage hearing, when you are injuring other people with your actions, you should be controlled.

[tripledigits]

There are some problems with enforcing an 80 db sound limit.

The first is the sound meter. You point the meter at a bike going by, and it comes up with a sound reading. The problem is that the meter hears all the other noise as well as the bike. If there's a train nearby, it's part of the reading. Wind, other vehicles, aircraft all add to the equation.

I doubt that stock cans on a sport bike would pass the 80 db test at WOT anyway. My Gixxer 1000 with a Yoshi can, not one of the louder cans, consistently is measured in the 90 to 92 range.

I would think that if you ever went to court and brought up the ambient noise argument, the judge couldn't make the db part of the offense stick. Getting a ticket just for an aftermarket can opens up a whole new set of problems. If bikes can't have them, why should cars be exempt? Again, I don't think any of this will stand up in court in the long run. The entire aftermarket auto parts industry will unite against a law forcing motorists to use stock exhausts.

Any attorneys here who would like to take this new law to trial??

[dm_gsxr]

There are some problems with enforcing an 80 db sound limit.

The first is the sound meter. You point the meter at a bike going by, and it comes up with a sound reading. The problem is that the meter hears all the other noise as well as the bike. If there's a train nearby, it's part of the reading. Wind, other vehicles, aircraft all add to the equation.

I doubt that stock cans on a sport bike would pass the 80 db test at WOT anyway. My Gixxer 1000 with a Yoshi can, not one of the louder cans, consistently is measured in the 90 to 92 range.

I would think that if you ever went to court and brought up the ambient noise argument, the judge couldn't make the db part of the offense stick. Getting a ticket just for an aftermarket can opens up a whole new set of problems. If bikes can't have them, why should cars be exempt? Again, I don't think any of this will stand up in court in the long run. The entire aftermarket auto parts industry will unite against a law forcing motorists to use stock exhausts.

Any attorneys here who would like to take this new law to trial??

1. The new limit is 82db to be aligned with the EPA requirements.
2. The EPA requirements have been a federal law since the mid 80's
3. The new law in Denver (or ordinance) is that the exhaust on your motorcycle must have the EPA label indicating it passed the federal 82db law.

I would think that if they wanted to try and enforce the federal law of 82db, they'd id your vehicle as being loud and then pull you into a parking lot for testing. In fact, that'd probably be the best way. Set up a testing stand in a big parking lot (like Wal*Mart) and randomly pull in vehicles for testing like they did in the 70's in California (and still might).

Carl

[puckstr]

weird thing my Carbs are louder than my cans....GRRRRRRRrrrrrrr
Also I do not see any db stamp on my exhaust, yes it is stock.
I want to change to a 4 to 1 Laser unit for a deeper tone.

I guess it is a good thing (the ordinance) to crackdown on the Harleys.

I had a 78 Honda CB750k with 4 to 1 and NO Baffel than made Harley guys weep... so freaking loud, my neighboors hated me.

[dapper]

Yes!
If you have the EPA info on your bike's muffler, no worries.

[greenramp]

Does the ordinance apply to I-25 through Denver?

[dapper]

Denver City and County ordinance. I-25 travels through Denver, right?
Keep your bike in a higher gear and you should be fine.